By 2024, Muslims who assimilate into Hindu culture can stay in India: BJP MLA

[PakLFC]

Thatslaughable. So you judge Hindu-Muslim relations by the movie stars, you have been exposed. Reality is different.

And triple talaq is a perfect example as it could have shown Muslims are progressive and inclusive but yet instead their deep hostility towards women was seen.

Just like you judge the relations of these communities on politicians it seems. Rather you have no reply when shown the mirror that most Indian Muslim celebrities celebrate non Muslim festivities and have non Muslim partners. I challenge you to deny that. Triple talaq is a different subject altogether, it has nothing to do with culture and all.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The Triple Talaq saga was fast tracked to protect women's rights in India, allegedly. Let's not even go there!

 

[PakLFC]

Forget many...i dnt even remember even a single organization in punjab working for khalistan country.
According to them in 2020 it will be first unofficial refendum and then after that under UN it will be official....i have no damn idea that how will they conduct votes in punjab.....And khalistan involves himachal ,haryana and some distt of rajasthan as well. Well according to their sayings.....but seriously punjabis hardly care for khalistan.......

See these organisations will not reveal themselves at 2pm in the afternoon as you seem to think. On the face off it they will act as being pro Indian. Sikh's being such a small minority can not afford to get offside with the Brahmin's. It is when these Sikh's go abroad do we see their real intentions. Many do want Khalistan like Simranjeet Singh Maan and many others.

 

[Tusker]

Did someone mention *Secular*?

There is so much in common between the India/Israel leaders and their respective right-wing religious nationalist agenda.

There is no need for Modi to do anything. The lower rung leaders of RSS/BJP etc are doing more than enough for the polarisation of the country than any previous PM could ever dream off. And Modi has never shown contempt to these communal murders. His silence is a fodder for these nutcases and murderers.

Ever wonder why its only the Muslims that get into conflicts with Hindus ? There are other minorities that coexist peacefully with Hindus in India. And this is a standard pattern across the globe with most other religions especially the idol worshiping kinds.

Once you realize the answer you will automatically understand why the Right wing does what it does. Not saying they are right or wrong but thats what it comes down to.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Ever wonder why its only the Muslims that get into conflicts with Hindus ?

Need a blackboard? One considered the Cow sacred, while the other considered the cow sacrificial.

Let me now if you need some chalk.

 

[Tusker]

Need a blackboard? One considered the Cow sacred, while the other considered the cow sacrificial.

Let me now if you need some chalk.

So Mulims don't have conflicts with anyone other than Hindus then ?

BTW Jains conider every life form sacred ... I dont see them in conflict with Hindus.

 

[R3verse Swing]

So Mulims don't have conflicts with anyone other than Hindus then ?

You asked "why its only the Muslims that get into conflicts with Hindus?"

Now you are asking "So Mulims don't have conflicts with anyone other than Hindus then?"

No wonder you end up confusing yourself.

Fo-real, Fo giggles.

 

[Tusker]

You asked "why its only the Muslims that get into conflicts with Hindus?"

Now you are asking "So Mulims don't have conflicts with anyone other than Hindus then?"

No wonder you end up confusing yourself.

Fo-real, Fo giggles.

read the post again and try not to wiggle out of it using banal technicalities ...

here:

Ever wonder why its only the Muslims that get into conflicts with Hindus ? There are other minorities that coexist peacefully with Hindus in India. And this is a standard pattern across the globe with most other religions especially the idol worshiping kinds.

pay attention to the bolded part.

 

[R3verse Swing]

read the post again and try not to wiggle out of it using banal technicalities ...

here:




pay attention to the bolded part.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Tusker]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

lol ... what a cop out ... cant come to terms with reality but still cant help throw barbs at other communities/religions ... sounds very familiar.

 

[R3verse Swing]

lol ... what a cop out ... cant come to terms with reality but still cant help throw barbs at other communities/religions ... sounds very familiar.

You win. I cannot stoop to your level.

Best!

 

[someone21]

Just like you judge the relations of these communities on politicians it seems. Rather you have no reply when shown the mirror that most Indian Muslim celebrities celebrate non Muslim festivities and have non Muslim partners. I challenge you to deny that. Triple talaq is a different subject altogether, it has nothing to do with culture and all.

Wow, that's some rubbish. Using your crazy logic, and seeing many successful Muslim celebrities, one can say all Muslims are rich?? These are just celebs actors and they are never representations of communities, and you are crazy to use it.

In reality, there are growing cases of intolerance by Muslims, and triple talaq issue is the best example. It showed the backward culture where many don't even want to empower their women. So it's correct to say they need to be progressive and assimilate.

 

[someone21]

Ever wonder why its only the Muslims that get into conflicts with Hindus ? There are other minorities that coexist peacefully with Hindus in India. And this is a standard pattern across the globe with most other religions especially the idol worshiping kinds.

Once you realize the answer you will automatically understand why the Right wing does what it does. Not saying they are right or wrong but thats what it comes down to.

Correct. Why only they get into conflicts with other groups in different parts of world. Many minorities including Hindus live peacefully.

 

[Madplayer]

https://www.thenewsminute.com/artic...w-board-affidavit-which-makes-us-cringe-49363

Triple Talaq has shown their backwardness, and thus, it makes complete sense when people say they haven't assimilated. They need to be more progressive and tolerence.

I agree that some of the points they have made are plain bad. I wont go into detailed discussions of it because that is another topic. By and large i agree with you that they didnt provide sound enough arguments.

Having said that, i dont agree with your standards for declaring that muslims haven't assimilated. Assimilated into what? Into Hindu culture like the honorable MLA has claimed? That's quite a demand and reeks of superiority complex while the reality is that backwardness isnt limited to muslims alone. I am sure you will agree with it.

Moreover you are speaking about assimilation of muslims in India as if muslims are foreigners while actually majority of them are native Indians, there ancestors were Indians too. They are as Indian as Hindus.

 

[Madplayer]

Correct. Why only they get into conflicts with other groups in different parts of world. Many minorities including Hindus live peacefully.

No, "only" muslims dont get into conflicts with others. They get into conflicts more as compared to others, coupled with more media attention to incidents involving muslims given the general wave of disturbance in the middle east and the threats coming out of there. Another fact is, muslims practice their religion more openly as compared to others so they always draw more attention. However, Most muslims live peacefully in foreign countries just like other communities.

 

[big_gamer007]

Normally Muslims in UP/Delhi have there areas where they live in which are like ghettos.. The crime rate around those areas is high and if you talk to people who live in Citites like Meerut, Aligarh they will tell you their reasons for resentment against Muslims. Since a lot of Muslims have gone to Arab countries for work the crime rate has reduced since they send money from there to the families..

I don’t think assimilation will happen till the community as a whole is uplifted in terms of education and employment..

But there are cases of Muslims who are assimilated with Hindus such as the ones who are educated and work in corporates etc..

 

[Madplayer]

Normally Muslims in UP/Delhi have there areas where they live in which are like ghettos.. The crime rate around those areas is high and if you talk to people who live in Citites like Meerut, Aligarh they will tell you their reasons for resentment against Muslims. Since a lot of Muslims have gone to Arab countries for work the crime rate has reduced since they send money from there to the families..

I don’t think assimilation will happen till the community as a whole is uplifted in terms of education and employment..

But there are cases of Muslims who are assimilated with Hindus such as the ones who are educated and work in corporates etc..

So basically what you are saying is that its not a muslim problem, its an unemployment problem?

The ghettos and slums where Hindus live are equally bad in terms of crime rates but some people see those criminal slum dwellers as simply "people" rather than "hindus".

 

[someone21]

I agree that some of the points they have made are plain bad. I wont go into detailed discussions of it because that is another topic. By and large i agree with you that they didnt provide sound enough arguments.

Having said that, i dont agree with your standards for declaring that muslims haven't assimilated. Assimilated into what? Into Hindu culture like the honorable MLA has claimed? That's quite a demand and reeks of superiority complex while the reality is that backwardness isnt limited to muslims alone. I am sure you will agree with it.

Moreover you are speaking about assimilation of muslims in India as if muslims are foreigners while actually majority of them are native Indians, there ancestors were Indians too. They are as Indian as Hindus.

The first point is Muslims need to progressive and tolerant. And it can be done by assimilating with other cultures like Hindu. And even Hindus themselves have to assimilate with other cultures like Muslim. That's where the issue starts as Hindus are doing their part greatly, but I just don't see it from Muslims whether its their politicians or an ordinary person.

And in all this issues, the biggest victims are the Muslim women. Triple Talaq has exposed the backwardness from the very top to the bottom. They need a voice and so please be more progressive for them, if not anybody else.

 

[someone21]

So basically what you are saying is that its not a muslim problem, its an unemployment problem?

The ghettos and slums where Hindus live are equally bad in terms of crime rates but some people see those criminal slum dwellers as simply "people" rather than "hindus".

But unemployment can't be a reason for crimes. Their is a higher crime rate among Muslims so the onus is on them to change it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The ghettos and slums where Hindus live are equally bad in terms of crime rates but some people see those criminal slum dwellers as simply "people" rather than "hindus".

If you don't wear any outward religious appearance, then you should be seen as people, but if you wear religion on your sleeve or hear or wrist, then you should be seen by your religion first.

 

[Madplayer]

The first point is Muslims need to progressive and tolerant. And it can be done by assimilating with other cultures like Hindu. And even Hindus themselves have to assimilate with other cultures like Muslim. That's where the issue starts as Hindus are doing their part greatly, but I just don't see it from Muslims whether its their politicians or an ordinary person.

And in all this issues, the biggest victims are the Muslim women. Triple Talaq has exposed the backwardness from the very top to the bottom. They need a voice and so please be more progressive for them, if not anybody else.

I disagree with Hindus doing their part greatly and muslims not doing it. It depends from case to case. I dont even believe in Assimilation to begin with. It should be accomodation rather than assimilation like i mentioned.

About Muslim women being the biggest victim and triple talaq exposing muslims and all. Its just the way you see it and its okay if you have this flawed opinion..its your right. Fact is, both Hindu and Muslim women suffer in one way or the other. Whether it be because of triple talaq, or gotra marriage system or not allowing women in religious places during that time of the month. All women need to empowered, not just any one particular community.

 

[Madplayer]

But unemployment can't be a reason for crimes. Their is a higher crime rate among Muslims so the onus is on them to change it.

Unemployment can surely be a reason for crimes.

 

[Madplayer]

If you don't wear any outward religious appearance, then you should be seen as people, but if you wear religion on your sleeve or hear or wrist, then you should be seen by your religion first.

Whether the symbols be a cap , an amulet, a tilak or a mangalsutra?

I dont agree with it though.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Whether the symbols be a cap , an amulet, a tilak or a mangalsutra?

I dont agree with it though.

when you wear religious symbols you are making a statement that i am a follower of this religion. only fair to see such people the way they want to be seen.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

when you wear religious symbols you are making a statement that i am a follower of this religion. only fair to see such people the way they want to be seen.

What if the wearing of religious symbols causes conflict among the majority? I am thinking of an Australian tourist who might have ignorantly displayed a tattoo of a Hindu goddess sitting in a cafe thus offending large numbers of Hindu bystanders? I guess if he brought an aggressive response he is himself responsible.

 

[Madplayer]

What if the wearing of religious symbols causes conflict among the majority? I am thinking of an Australian tourist who might have ignorantly displayed a tattoo of a Hindu goddess sitting in a cafe thus offending large numbers of Hindu bystanders? I guess if he brought an aggressive response he is himself responsible.

As per dear [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] the aussie guy would be considered a hindu because he displayed a hindu symbol. Jk

 

[CricketCartoons]

As per dear [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] the aussie guy would be considered a hindu because he displayed a hindu symbol. Jk

If you see a guy wearing the skull cap on his feet, will you take him to be a muslim? Please dont lower the level of discourse and keep it intellectual.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What if the wearing of religious symbols causes conflict among the majority? I am thinking of an Australian tourist who might have ignorantly displayed a tattoo of a Hindu goddess sitting in a cafe thus offending large numbers of Hindu bystanders? I guess if he brought an aggressive response he is himself responsible.

You are right. he is responsible for his ignorance. Imagine having the kalima tatooed on your legs. Only an ignorant person or a hater would do that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are right. he is responsible for his ignorance. Imagine having the kalima tatooed on your legs. Only an ignorant person or a hater would do that.

I agree, it is up to the traveller to make themselves aware of social norms in any country they are travelling to, even if they are changing with every season. Your safety and well being are no one's responsibility but your own. Unfortunately Indian liberals have confused this issue by presenting a false impression of the country otherwise this fellow might have prepared more diligently. I blame many Indian posters on here as well for this.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I agree, it is up to the traveller to make themselves aware of social norms in any country they are travelling to, even if they are changing with every season. Your safety and well being are no one's responsibility but your own. Unfortunately Indian liberals have confused this issue by presenting a false impression of the country otherwise this fellow might have prepared more diligently. I blame many Indian posters on here as well for this.

Don't know which indian liberal you have been following. They are the ones who have been whining about intolerance. that guy was lucky he was let off with a mild thrashing but hopefully he learnt a lesson in how to respect others religion.

 

[Madplayer]

If you see a guy wearing the skull cap on his feet, will you take him to be a muslim? Please dont lower the level of discourse and keep it intellectual.

It was a joke.
In a secular tolerant country like India, such mistakes by tourists should be overlooked.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It was a joke.
In a secular tolerant country like India, such mistakes by tourists should be overlooked.

this tolerance has brought about our downfall. hindus will be seen as bad anyways and hindu haters wont start loving us if we show tolerance..they laugh as us seeing it as our meekness. So no more tolerance, no more appeasement.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

this tolerance has brought about our downfall. hindus will be seen as bad anyways and hindu haters wont start loving us if we show tolerance..they laugh as us seeing it as our meekness. So no more tolerance, no more appeasement.

I think Madplayer is secretly laughing at India in his description of India as secular and tolerant. In his mind that probably is doublespeak for meek and mild pushovers.

 

[Tusker]

However, Most muslims live peacefully in foreign countries just like other communities.

This is just not true at all. They constantly have had issues in Most Western countries too that are known to be very liberal. When was the last time you heard about Hindus having issues in Western countries?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is just not true at all. They constantly have had issues in Most Western countries too that are known to be very liberal. When was the last time you heard about Hindus having issues in Western countries?

Hindus have very few issues because they are quite prepared to bend in any way necessary to fit in wherever they go. Hinduism has great flexibility abroad as compared to home. In India for example, Hindus are misogynistic, won't marry outside their caste or religion, are disapproving of homosexuality, and generally not very liberal in thought.

Outside India though, they will accept almost conditions and generally are willing to shed their beliefs and social norms as the host nation requires. This means that the religion generally gets assimilated and disappears within a generation or two. I think that is the main advantage of Hinduism abroad, it is generally designed to be subsumed abroad. I think Islam proves a much bigger problem as it seems far more dominant when it spreads.

 

[Madplayer]

This is just not true at all. They constantly have had issues in Most Western countries too that are known to be very liberal. When was the last time you heard about Hindus having issues in Western countries?

So you are saying most muslims i.e more than 50% of muslims dont live peacefully abroad? Can you back up your claim with something concrete so that we can see also bask in the light of your knowledge?

 

[Madplayer]

Hindus have very few issues because they are quite prepared to bend in any way necessary to fit in wherever they go. Hinduism has great flexibility abroad as compared to home. In India for example, Hindus are misogynistic, won't marry outside their caste or religion, are disapproving of homosexuality, and generally not very liberal in thought.

Outside India though, they will accept almost conditions and generally are willing to shed their beliefs and social norms as the host nation requires. This means that the religion generally gets assimilated and disappears within a generation or two. I think that is the main advantage of Hinduism abroad, it is generally designed to be subsumed abroad. I think Islam proves a much bigger problem as it seems far more dominant when it spreads.

This is quite accurate.

And sometimes genuine demands of Muslims as citizens are also seen as muslims creating trouble.

 

[Tusker]

So you are saying most muslims i.e more than 50% of muslims dont live peacefully abroad? Can you back up your claim with something concrete so that we can see also bask in the light of your knowledge?

It is reflected in the countless terror incidents done by Muslim perpetrators in the name of religion. You will find exactly ZERO such acts attributed to Hindu's in Western world. Then there are countless less serious episodes that point to intolerance. You cant hide behind the 0.001% theory going by absolute numbers. The point is for so many incidents to happen worldwide - and there is a consistent pattern to them all - points to deeper issues at structural level.

 

[Tusker]

Hindus have very few issues because they are quite prepared to bend in any way necessary to fit in wherever they go. Hinduism has great flexibility abroad as compared to home. In India for example, Hindus are misogynistic, won't marry outside their caste or religion, are disapproving of homosexuality, and generally not very liberal in thought.

If you follow the -ve press then thats what you will observe. Once you live in India then you will know the difference. For a society that was brutalized by conquerors for centuries we are faaar more tolerant towards Islam and Christianity than anyone would be in our situation.

Outside India though, they will accept almost conditions and generally are willing to shed their beliefs and social norms as the host nation requires. This means that the religion generally gets assimilated and disappears within a generation or two. I think that is the main advantage of Hinduism abroad, it is generally designed to be subsumed abroad. I think Islam proves a much bigger problem as it seems far more dominant when it spreads.

outside India most of us practice our religion privately in our house so there is no question about compromising on our beliefs there. Yes there are temples and it is not the same as in India but for all practical purposes you can indulge in your religiosity to your hearts content if you so wish to again in the confines of our temples.

Outside our houses we follow the rules of the land we are living in and if we don't like anything we will not take matters into our hand(eg Beef in Western Counties !). We believe that our spiritual foundation (that is literally 1000s of yrs old) will eventually endure and prevail. There is a reason why Hinduism is one of the oldest religions on the Planet without having to indulge in force to recruit. It works on building soft power and engineering change through dialogue and reason. Great example is Yoga and Vegetarian lifestyle.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If you follow the -ve press then thats what you will observe. Once you live in India then you will know the difference. For a society that was brutalized by conquerors for centuries we are faaar more tolerant towards Islam and Christianity than anyone would be in our situation.



outside India most of us practice our religion privately in our house so there is no question about compromising on our beliefs there. Yes there are temples and it is not the same as in India but for all practical purposes you can indulge in your religiosity to your hearts content if you so wish to again in the confines of our temples.

Outside our houses we follow the rules of the land we are living in and if we don't like anything we will not take matters into our hand(eg Beef in Western Counties !). We believe that our spiritual foundation (that is literally 1000s of yrs old) will eventually endure and prevail. There is a reason why Hinduism is one of the oldest religions on the Planet without having to indulge in force to recruit. It works on building soft power and engineering change through dialogue and reason. Great example is Yoga and Vegetarian lifestyle.

Most immigrants abroad follow the law of the land outside of their homes, including Muslims with a few exceptions, this isn't something that is unique to Hindus. As for spiritual foundation enduring and prevailing, the soft power remains soft from what can be observed. Indians generally marry out and abandon the Hindu faith within a generation or two in Britain. Yoga and vegetarianism have their attractions, but then so do hamburgers and Christian boyfriends.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Indians generally marry out and abandon the Hindu faith within a generation or two in Britain. Yoga and vegetarianism have their attractions, but then so do hamburgers and Christian boyfriends.

I guess there are self esteem benefits in abandoning the identities of their immigrant fathers/grandfathers and taking up the native brit culture. You would know it better than anyone else.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I guess there are self esteem benefits in abandoning the identities of their immigrant fathers/grandfathers and taking up the native brit culture. You would know it better than anyone else.

I do, and this is the reason I have always fought against the attempts to impose foreign culture or religions in British towns such as Southall and Wembley.

 

[PakLFC]

Wow, that's some rubbish. Using your crazy logic, and seeing many successful Muslim celebrities, one can say all Muslims are rich?? These are just celebs actors and they are never representations of communities, and you are crazy to use it.

In reality, there are growing cases of intolerance by Muslims, and triple talaq issue is the best example. It showed the backward culture where many don't even want to empower their women. So it's correct to say they need to be progressive and assimilate.

Don't be so ignorant. I do not know if you are Indian or Pak but hundreds of millions of then do follow Hindu culture. It could be out of fear that they need to have something Hindu about them. As for their Muslim Bollywood stars they also can not be 100% Muslim if they want to remain in the good books of the likes of Yash Johar. Most of their movie makers are Hindu, we all know about their government.

If celebs do not represent Indian Muslim society then neither do the politicians who you keep crying about. Talking about the general Indian Muslim population there has to be something Hindu about them. This is not criticism but a fact that seems to be bothering you greatly for some unknown reason? From Hindunised Muslim's you keep deflecting to the triple talaq debate for some unknown reason.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So when Rakesh Sinha could not reply to my points with logic he indulged in his tried&tested trick—called me pro-Pakistan. I had to firmly remind him that Muslims did not need his certificate on patriotism! You can watch the full programme here. <a href="https://t.co/zcBgh3mADP">https://t.co/zcBgh3mADP</a> <a href="https://t.co/DjJufGoQ6E">pic.twitter.com/DjJufGoQ6E</a></p>— Rifat Jawaid (@RifatJawaid) <a href="https://twitter.com/RifatJawaid/status/1165689154606268417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 25, 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes, Muslims will need to prove their credentials and deserve certification given their track record in post 1947 India, not to talk of earlier centuries. <a href="https://t.co/OBVj6UOLx0">https://t.co/OBVj6UOLx0</a></p>— MadhuPurnima Kishwar (@madhukishwar) <a href="https://twitter.com/madhukishwar/status/1165821439078879232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2019</a></blockquote>
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