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By changing the captaincy alone, will Pakistan start winning from tomorrow?

By changing the captaincy alone, will Pakistan start winning from tomorrow?


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Abdul

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Many people believe that Azhar Ali's captaincy is the only reason behind all of our losses in LOIs

Will Pakistan start winning matches from tomorrow if the captaincy is given to anyone else?
 
No but right combination and if deserving players are selected then we got a chance. If we keep persisting with so called useless seniors then no.
 
The first thing we need is a team capable of winning, we don't have the right combination.

However I'm sure there are better captains just in that XI. Will give Azhar some time but it seems time is ticking.
 
Azhar's captaincy isn't the only reason for the losses. It's part of it. The issues run deeper but Azhar's meek character doesn't look like motivating the side, nor enthuse any of players.

Also let's not pretend this is the first time we've been concerned about his leadership abilities either.
 
Change of captaincy on merit means a shift in our thinking to bring merit to our team. An aggressive captain can play a crucial role in changing the attitude of the players as well. It will play a major role in our success.
 
The first thing we need is a team capable of winning, we don't have the right combination.

However I'm sure there are better captains just in that XI. Will give Azhar some time but it seems time is ticking.

This. Combination isn't right for the team yet.
 
Change of captaincy on merit means a shift in our thinking to bring merit to our team. An aggressive captain can play a crucial role in changing the attitude of the players as well. It will play a major role in our success.

This!
Always back the aggressive captain specially in LOI it will change the attitude of whole team.
 
Azhar is not contributing much with the bat and even when he gets run his SR is not acceptable for modern day LOI cricket.
 
It may not help us to win, but atleast someone like Sarfaraz may put attacking fields and have plans A, B and C.
 
NO

The gap is too big. But, one can't measure captaincy that way. It's about closing the gap - 1st 2 ODI, not for a single ball, even when ENG was 0/1, I had any doubt that ENG was going to win & they made it clinically boring. A better Captain could have made the 1st ODI much closer & the 2nd one a nail biter.

It's not about winning one match, even Azhar can win the 3rd ODI as Captain - one great innings, few good spells, a bit of luck, couple of great pieces of fielding, and some ordinary cricket from England; PAK could have been 2-0 up by now & can win the next 3 with Azhar Captain.

It doesn't work like that. I can put it this way - with Azhar Captain, PAK will win about 7 to max 13 out of 48 matches against top 8 teams (say 6 each, home & away); with a better Captain, this can go to 18/19, may be 23/24 - but never 35.

This team is not good, with so many missing pieces in the jigsaw puzzle; unfortunately Captain being the biggest piece, as he doesn't make the team on merit & a poor man's Mathews.
 
England is a better ODI side, give credit to the Poms, they are actually a better side than the Proteas at the moment.
 
You've got to start somewhere. Azhar's captaincy has not been impressive, and when you have an alternative captain in the wings it makes sense to try him. Azhar's not even a natural captain, he didn't captain much domestically either.

Sarfraz has been captaining since he was young, he's experienced. His place is also unquestioned unlike Azhar. I don't believe international arena is the place to learn captaincy. Azhar is trying to both learn captaincy as well as adjust his ODI game. You especially can't do both.
 
So we have far bigger things to worry about than the captaincy itself
 
I genuinely think they're close to being the best side in LOIs. Great strength in depth too.

Their big challenge will be in Bangladesh in a month's time. Can they do what Pakistan, India and South Africa couldn't?
 
Their big challenge will be in Bangladesh in a month's time. Can they do what Pakistan, India and South Africa couldn't?

Lool they will trash you guys few victories have gone to you lot heads.
 
Change captaincy and kicking out a couple of passengers in the team will help a long way...
 
Many people believe that Azhar Ali's captaincy is the only reason behind all of our losses in LOIs

Will Pakistan start winning matches from tomorrow if the captaincy is given to anyone else?

I do not think it is the ONLY reason but his approach and mindset is a major part of it - along with the team selection.
 
After the 96 CWC, Azharuddin was axed as captain and was given to tendulkar then to ajay jadeja for a while, they lost like 80% of the games they played during that time... Until they find Ganguly as the leader it was chaotic and india was really going nowhere... Once Dada took the crown change in captaincy, change in approach, new players come in, mindset was different, everything changed...
 
What Pakistan need is to find a leader who can inject some aggression into the side ala Imran or Ganguly or Ranatunga.

Who is the most aggressive character in the side suited for the job?
 
You've got to start somewhere. Azhar's captaincy has not been impressive, and when you have an alternative captain in the wings it makes sense to try him. Azhar's not even a natural captain, he didn't captain much domestically either.

Sarfraz has been captaining since he was young, he's experienced. His place is also unquestioned unlike Azhar. I don't believe international arena is the place to learn captaincy.
Azhar is trying to both learn captaincy as well as adjust his ODI game.
You especially can't do both.

Exactly... it is an added pressure... If he is a player who has been playing ODI cricket for atleast one or two years , got a chance to look at a captain from his team before he was made captain would have been handy... But he is going nowhere with his game and captaincy...
 
What Pakistan need is to find a leader who can inject some aggression into the side ala Imran or Ganguly or Ranatunga.

Who is the most aggressive character in the side suited for the job?

have aggression but either their brains are not working or indisciplined...Sarfraz is the best bet
 
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Win or loss is immaterial, i just want new players being tried, tested, given opportunities and groomed. From the captain i just want someone who shows he has a natural feel for the job, looks comfortable in the role and learns with every match.
 
Nope. Azhar isn't the best captain but frankly, the issue is the lack of talent and the selectors doing a poor job as usual. Changing a captain isn't going to make a batter bat better, or a bowler to somehow start bowling better or the fielders to field better.

Get talented players on the team who can play in the modern ODI game and then you will start to see the difference. The fact Azhar isn't a modern ODI player is a legitimate criticization and I'd say his batting hurts the team more than his captaincy, which is not quantifiable or measurable but his batting is, and unfortunately, in a modern ODI game, it is underwhelming.

Pakistan continues to have old school thinking and approach to their game and selection of players and until that changes, they won't be winning any time soon in LOI.
 
Dropping Azhar, Hafeez and Malik and bringing Sami, Haris and Akmal/Rizwan into the team will surely help.

Also, no idea why the #10 ranked bowler in the world, Irfan isn't playing this series and why Asghar hasn't been given a debut yet.
 
No, we would probably still lose as the team is quite weak. But at least with Sarfraz as the captain, we would lose competitively and would go down fighting. With Azhar as the captain, we will keep getting trashed.
 
The fact that the English ODI team is miles ahead of ours means that we are unlikely to win anything against them in this series barring a fluke performance because we have had a pathetic ODI team for ages now. Even if we get rid of Azhar, Yasir, Malik and maybe Wahab (not sure yet), we still remain miles behind the current English team.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps in the right direction, i.e. remove Azhar and make someone like Sarfaraz captain, groom a pace bowling all-rounder, get rid of Malik and start looking to phase out Wahab.

Take a look at England, for example. They replaced Cook before the World Cup. They completely revamped their team with a futuristic outlook. What followed was an absolutely disastrous World Cup. However, over time their decisions have been vindicated because they planned for the future and took all the right steps with a long term vision.

Change does not occur overnight, but we need to start planning for the future and taking steps in the right direction.

We cannot just keep playing an outdated opener who is also a clueless captain and hope that things fall into place. We cannot keep playing a batsman with pathetic technique and a penchant for choking and soft dismissals like Hafeez in the top order (he is supposedly out due to injury, not dropped). We cannot keep playing without a pace bowling all-rounder to balance the team in overseas conditions. We cannot keep selecting poor players of pace like Malik outside Asia. We cannot keep selecting mediocre ODI spinners like Yasir on the basis of their Test performance.

We need to start taking the right investments and back those investments to deliver for us in the long run. Not much point in repeatedly trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Change will come, in shaa Allah, but patience is required along with making plans for a 21st century ODI unit, instead of praying for an archaic ODI unit to miraculously come good over time.
 
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have aggression but either their brains are not working or indisciplined...Sarfraz is the best bet

Wahab is the only aggressive character I can see in this line up, somebody who can sledge back.

I can see 3 potential candidates based on this:

1. Babar: He is probably the next in line after Sarfraz but he doesn't look like an aggressive character. The pressure of Pak captaincy might affect his game too.

2. Wahab: Tbh it's not a bad choice. He is aggressive and well educated as well. A left field choice but may not be a bad one.

3. Amir: Some people may not accept him but as the leader of the pack, he can lead the team as well. Second best choice after Babar.
 
We've been struggling in ODIs since the 2007 World Cup under a range of captains, though Azhar's been particularly poor.

Said it before and will say it again. We just don't have enough players with the skills needed to thrive in modern day ODIs. Not enough batsmen with ability to play innings with SR of 85+, not enough batsmen who can hit boundaries at will, and not enough bowlers who can take wickets in PP 1.
 
No. It would be ludicrous to change captain half way through a series. Azhar should be given till the rest of the series. Getting the team back to being competitive again is a long project, and it will be a painful journey before we taste the sweetness of success.
 
Come on folks put your money where your mouth. Now is not the time to hedge bets
 
Arthur should have a bigger say in selction. Don't think he will have any favouretism and seems to have a good understanding of what we need and he knows exactly what he wants in his team to improve us.
 
The answer is no but it will a step in the right direction.
 
You may play a bit better and you may win a bit more, but it won't solve all problems. You won't be winning lots of games just due to different captain.
 
Wahab is the only aggressive character I can see in this line up, somebody who can sledge back.

I can see 3 potential candidates based on this:

1. Babar: He is probably the next in line after Sarfraz but he doesn't look like an aggressive character. The pressure of Pak captaincy might affect his game too.

2. Wahab: Tbh it's not a bad choice. He is aggressive and well educated as well. A left field choice but may not be a bad one.

3. Amir: Some people may not accept him but as the leader of the pack, he can lead the team as well. Second best choice after Babar.

terrible choice. education notwithstanding he fails the brains criteria, is not doing well enough to have a secure a place as a bowler, and is too old to be an investment for the future.
 
We've been struggling in ODIs since the 2007 World Cup under a range of captains, though Azhar's been particularly poor.

Said it before and will say it again. We just don't have enough players with the skills needed to thrive in modern day ODIs. Not enough batsmen with ability to play innings with SR of 85+, not enough batsmen who can hit boundaries at will, and not enough bowlers who can take wickets in PP 1.

Correct.

All other posts are trying to hide from reality. We need to change the team.

Arthur should have a bigger say in selction. Don't think he will have any favouretism and seems to have a good understanding of what we need and he knows exactly what he wants in his team to improve us.

Mickey wants Irfan. Don't get your hopes too high .
 
Wahab is the only aggressive character I can see in this line up, somebody who can sledge back.

I can see 3 potential candidates based on this:

1. Babar: He is probably the next in line after Sarfraz but he doesn't look like an aggressive character. The pressure of Pak captaincy might affect his game too.

2. Wahab: Tbh it's not a bad choice. He is aggressive and well educated as well. A left field choice but may not be a bad one.

3. Amir: Some people may not accept him but as the leader of the pack, he can lead the team as well. Second best choice after Babar.

Street, Kia kar raha hai bhai. :danish

Amir is genuinely a good choice. But Wahab has no tactical brilliance and lacks brains. Babar is also not leadership material.

Wahab se larayi karwa lo. But captaincy? :))
 
Its a process. A new caption beings in a new vision which follows with new players that fit into his vision . When you change a caption you are not just replacing a captian but a whole vision .
 
there's LITERALLY only one way to go for this team- we can only improve, or did you forget the no.9 ranking?

so YEAH- we'll win more than we do now
 
Its always captain is the reason. I have been hearing it from pak fans for long long time. Did you ever have good odi captain after imran? Inzi, younis, yousuf, afridi, misbah, now Azhar Ali.
 
Street, Kia kar raha hai bhai. :danish

Amir is genuinely a good choice. But Wahab has no tactical brilliance and lacks brains. Babar is also not leadership material.

Wahab se larayi karwa lo. But captaincy? :))

Who knows Hawkeye bhai, Wahab may transform after he becomes the captain. The responsibility may end up influencing his game in the positive way. He is not uneducated either, so will be a hit with the media and not give out stupid statements.

But yeah, Amir will be a great choice. But I see few problems arising if he becomes the captain.

Why can't Babar become the captain? Wasn't he the ex Pakistan U19 captain?
 
Yes. We may not become #1 right away. But that has been the main difference.

Only if PCB can be daring enough to do that right now.
 
Wahab is the only aggressive character I can see in this line up, somebody who can sledge back.

I can see 3 potential candidates based on this:

1. Babar: He is probably the next in line after Sarfraz but he doesn't look like an aggressive character. The pressure of Pak captaincy might affect his game too.

2. Wahab: Tbh it's not a bad choice. He is aggressive and well educated as well. A left field choice but may not be a bad one.

3. Amir: Some people may not accept him but as the leader of the pack, he can lead the team as well. Second best choice after Babar.

That's exactly what PAK team is missing for last 15 years - a bit of aggression & attitude. Azhar is really nice kid - his mom & wife would certify that, but it doesn't help much.

Wahab could have been, just after WC, but he is too old now to invest. Next Captain must take PAK to WC 2019 (or at least to the qualifiers).

Babar can be, but PAK plays better under a bowling Captain, hence there is no other logical choice than Aamir. Babar can be made his deputy.

Sarfu is not bad, but his age, work load & fitness has to be considered. Once he is made Captain, he'll do exactly what every PAK WK did once they were confirmed in the team - bunk training & survive on his secondary KPI - batting, which is going to effect his keeping. Till 2006; KAkmal was the best gloves man in world along with Boucher (Not me, Ian Chappel said that) - then PAK made him opener & Inzi, Malik made sure that no one comes close to him (his marriage didn't help either), so we have seen KAkmal V2.0.

There is a reason why Allen Knott, Rod Marsh, Jeff Doujon, Ian Hilley, Syed Kirmany, Les Ames, Godfrey Eveans, Willy Grout or Bert Strudewick were hardly made even deputy. Mash Allah, PCB has appointed Imriaz, Bari, Moin, Latif, Sarfu Captain & on top of that had played Moin as specialist Captain, with Latif keeping.
 
Main thing is giving enough chance to deserving players...the core of this team shud revolve around babar azam imad Hasan ali rizwan sharjeel sarfrazwahab Amir...amir yamin and nawaz/ashgar...also hamad azam.....these players must be persisted with....PCB must accept that they won't be playiplaying champions trophy.... so better build a team for next world cup...pak need to persists with these players for 3 series at least.....then only any thing can happen....constant changing wont
 
Simple answer = No.

BUT

There is a lot more to this.

1) Does Azhar Ali warrant a spot if captaincy was removed? It's not a definite "Yes!" and that's an issue. Your captain should be one of the first names on your team sheet. I don't think the same can be said for Azhar Ali right now.

2) The question isn't what he can do with this team, but what could he do with a good team. It seems as if he'd bring down a team of talented individuals too and that's a problem. His captaincy leaves a lot to be desired even if we had 10 other superstars to go with him.

You want a foundational piece in your captain that can be built around with full confidence. I don't see Azhar Ali as that piece. It has nothing to do with short-term results, but long-term potential.

Now, you may ask, who should replace him? It's not like we have a team full of potential leaders and that's a fair claim to make.

In my opinion, you can go with Sarfraz Ahmed (noted captaincy pedigree) and let him run with things.
 
Some very good posts here.

The answer to the question is NO but as stated in many posts above, it will be an improvement over the current situation, I also think that Azhar Ali is NOT an automatic selection in the ODI side. At the moment Sarfraz looks the best option to lead the LOI teams.

Pakistan will also do well to take some innovative calls, Malik for example has an excellent record at No.3, I remember during one of pakistan's most sucessful period in 2005-2006, Malik used to bat at 3 in the ODI's, As suggested in some of the posts, Pakistan can also try Umar Akmal as an aggressive opener, I'm sorry to say but Sherjeel Khan does NOT have a big future, I don't see that.

Kamran Akmal has shown good form and can be used some where in the lower middle order, at 6 or like that.

For a start these could be some of the changes, personally I also feel Salman Butt is still a very good batsmen compared to other players in the playing eleven, but I know his inclusion is not a famous decision to make. Asad Shafiq, although I never liked him as an ODI player but I feel he is technically good and Pakistan can utilize him in some way probably at the expense of Azhar Ali.

Pakistan's best batsmen atm looks to be Babar Azam, please groom him to be the next Mohammed Yousuf, I've seen Pakistan wasting good talent very often.

From bowling point of view, what happened to Raza Hasan and Zafar Gohar? Pakistan needs a top spinner in the side, Imad alone won't do and Yasir doesn't make the cut in ODIs.
 
That's exactly what PAK team is missing for last 15 years - a bit of aggression & attitude. Azhar is really nice kid - his mom & wife would certify that, but it doesn't help much.

Wahab could have been, just after WC, but he is too old now to invest. Next Captain must take PAK to WC 2019 (or at least to the qualifiers).

Babar can be, but PAK plays better under a bowling Captain, hence there is no other logical choice than Aamir. Babar can be made his deputy.

Sarfu is not bad, but his age, work load & fitness has to be considered. Once he is made Captain, he'll do exactly what every PAK WK did once they were confirmed in the team - bunk training & survive on his secondary KPI - batting, which is going to effect his keeping. Till 2006; KAkmal was the best gloves man in world along with Boucher (Not me, Ian Chappel said that) - then PAK made him opener & Inzi, Malik made sure that no one comes close to him (his marriage didn't help either), so we have seen KAkmal V2.0.

There is a reason why Allen Knott, Rod Marsh, Jeff Doujon, Ian Hilley, Syed Kirmany, Les Ames, Godfrey Eveans, Willy Grout or Bert Strudewick were hardly made even deputy. Mash Allah, PCB has appointed Imriaz, Bari, Moin, Latif, Sarfu Captain & on top of that had played Moin as specialist Captain, with Latif keeping.

It's funny because it is kinda ironic in a way. In the past, Miandad used to get under the skin of a lot of players and the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Akhtar were always intimidating and I'm not talking about their bowling. Whereas the past Indian players used to be either too gentlemanly or too meek, so that they were always second best against aggressive teams like Australia or Pakistan. But then Ganguly took charge and he had a huge ego of a bengali prince, but that also positively impacted the team. Then came Yuvi who is famous for belting Broad for 6 sixes after being egged on by Flintoff. Sehwag didn't need to talk. And the next crop of Indian players like Kohli, Dhawan, Rohit, Raina are no angels on the field and everyone of them have an attitude. When I see the current Pak players in comparison, they all look too "nice boys" and "soft" on field. Wahab is the only character who is aggressive and I feel Amir is one too but he is playing it down because of his comeback. But none of the others look confident of themselves on field. I see many BD players exuding more confidence and passion on field than Pak players which is very unlike their predecessors who used to boss the field like they owned it.

I think that lack of aggression negatively impacts them on field in LOIs. You need to equally aggressive when facing teams like Australia. Only then you will be able to express yourself more on field. Otherwise you will always have a sort of an inferiority complex at the back of your mind that your opponent is stronger. This aggression factor is very underrated in cricket, or rather it is looked down upon by desis as "bad behaviour". Take any sport, you will see the importance of aggression. Sindhu who won the silver medal this time around at the Rio in badminton was apparently a very soft character initially. She was then asked one day by her coach Gopichand to stand at the centre of the court surrounded by all other players and coaching centre officials and was asked by him to shout loudly from the top of her voice. She just couldn't do it and apparently started crying. Then when repeatedly stressed by her coach that she couldn't leave if she failed it, she started shouting and it positively impacted her game and ended up beating top ranked Chinese and Japanese players in her run to the final. Most top players give out an aggressive shout after points be it her or Carolina Marin (who won the gold and actually intimidates her opponents with her loud screams) or Serena or Nadal and one another women's player (Azarenka?). Similarly you see how aggressive the Germans are at international football, or Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga. You will never see them backing down after 3 or 4 goals, they will score 10 if it's possible.

Aggression is exactly what's been missing from their players and Amir might be the correct choice for injecting the same into the side. The Pak youngsters will gain more confidence as they play the PSL more and can transform the side.
 
Dropping Azhar, Hafeez and Malik and bringing Sami, Haris and Akmal/Rizwan into the team will surely help.

Also, no idea why the #10 ranked bowler in the world, Irfan isn't playing this series and why Asghar hasn't been given a debut yet.

Axar Patel is ranked 12th. Sometimes rankings could be misleading. Irfan averages 32 with the ball and is already 34 years of age. Will be 37 by the time the World Cup starts.
 
So, removing doesn't mean we will win, but we should remove anyway. Bizarre.
 
No, it will by no way guarantee a win, however it might change the way we approach things which may lead to better results. Azhar ali has had enough chances to show what he had to offer and unfortunately he has failed to show any promise. The team has come down to an all time low ranking, he has failed to inspire the youngsters and we are not improving with this approach. The point of change is to get things on the right track and hope for results to follow. For the time being we have no track hence the position where we are today.
 
Nope, even IK can not win you matches with this team and combo.

On other hand, he should be removed from captaincy and ODI team also :)
 
To summarize logic, we will feel better about losing under someone other than Azhar because #aggressive
 
What Pakistan need is to find a leader who can inject some aggression into the side ala Imran or Ganguly or Ranatunga.

Who is the most aggressive character in the side suited for the job?

Aggression without a plan or strategy gives the team no direction at all.
 
Many people believe that Azhar Ali's captaincy is the only reason behind all of our losses in LOIs

Will Pakistan start winning matches from tomorrow if the captaincy is given to anyone else?

please name them, i doubt you will get 5

this is just mischaracterisation

azhar has to go because he wont take us forward, sarfraz can, there is no instant fix
 
I don't agree with the poll but I have still rated it Yes.

Captaincy is one of the major issues we have at the moment.. yes players and talent is also part of bigger problem and to solve this jigsaw u need to put all the pieces in their right places however you need to start with the captain and let the new guy be part of the change exercise otherwise. With Azhar as captain, you are playing 1 person short in every match.. its like 10 people against 11 in all the matches we play. Atleast it will allow the team to be equals in terms of player count. His presence at the top of the order impacts negatively so its not even 10 against 11 but maybe 8 against 11 because the way he plays put pressure on a couple of others following him.
 
axing Azhar in this series wont help us win. England are way ahead of us in ODIs. They have beat us without getting out of 2nd gear tbh if England were firing on all cylinders we would get treated like Ireland. But long term Azhar just isnt good enough as a player or captain in ODIS doesnt have the tactical nous the charisma or the leadership skills to be captain. Misbah wasnt a tactical genius but he exuded a quiet authority and calm. Azhar looks out of his depth in ODI captain.
 
Pakistan will not become a top ODI team if Azhar is sacked but they will surely do better than how they are doing under him.

Need to improve on two things to at least become competitive in ODIs:
1. Captaincy
2. Team Selection
 
Nope. Check the 'Irfan replacing Hafeez' thread. Management/Mickey wanted irfan :p

Oh right. Mickey did mention he is looking at domestic players atm so hopefully we won't see selections like this in the future
 
So, removing doesn't mean we will win, but we should remove anyway. Bizarre.

Put it this way.

On evidence:
Keeping Azhar = not winning in short or long term. There is no upward trajectory. Unless you argue he has been given a poor team.
Removing Azhar = not winning short term. No idea about long term yet.

What would you do?
 
Put it this way.

On evidence:
Keeping Azhar = not winning in short or long term. There is no upward trajectory. Unless you argue he has been given a poor team.
Removing Azhar = not winning short term. No idea about long term yet.

What would you do?

Captain is not a talisman. Pakistan has a track record of breeding insecurity with new captains which is why they don't last long because they are always looking over their shoulder. As I said elsewhere plenty of ppl thought misbah was the worst test captain ever during first year and a half, because they suffered from a delusion that a team of match winners was being held back by a conservative captain.
If the only thing going for sarfaraz (as an example) is that he scored in two matches, then where do you go to hide if he underperformed in the next three.
Really not in favor picking captan like plucking rose petals.
 
Hafeez will be the future captain of Pakistan

Does Hafeez will be the future captain of Pakistan?

In the absence of Odi captain Azhar Ali team management has 3 options
1- Shoaib Malik
2- Hafeez
3- Imad Wasim

and management had selected Hafeez as captain.

Now the debate is Who will be our future captain for test and ODI. Is it Azhar Ali, Sarfraz or Hafeez.
 
hafeez is not the future... we should look for other options.. I think we should invest on IMAD straightaway. in the process, we can loose direct spot in WC.. but we will be on right path.
 
If I am not wrong his place in the team is itself questionable.Maybe mashrafe martaza of Pakistan.
 
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