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By changing the captaincy alone, will Pakistan start winning from tomorrow?

By changing the captaincy alone, will Pakistan start winning from tomorrow?

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Captain for Pakistan team

This thread is for selecting the Captain for Pakistan Team as the title suggest.

Keeping in mind the seniority complex of PCB and the need of the hour we have four options for me. You guys can suggest your own options too.. with reasonable reasons.
The options available to us in current scenario are:

1. Azhar :azhar2

He is already captaining our side. I am not in favor of changing captain in the middle of series. The positives which azhar's captaincy offers seems to be the hardworking players. Like we will have more good boys in the team in the future. but truly he is tactically inept in rotating the bowlers and more or less seems more reactive than proactive under different match situations. And sometimes he goes as planned like going for PLAN A,B or C. That's it.
Nevertheless his captaincy seem to improve in the last odi. Also he is quiet open to learning and adapting.

2. Sarfaraz :sarf

Active and vocal in the field, good improvement in comparison to azhar. Though, I have issues with his fitness which may be the reason of the drop catches in the test matches. And I also observed while watching that when we bowl around 80 overs he didn't backup the wickets. Also, he will be overburdened with captaining, batting and keeping with his fitness. He won't be the long term option with his fitness. He also brings the good boy option to the table for the management.

3. Hafeez :hafeez2

For me, he wasn't the option before but he captained Pakistan in the last odi and showed that one man can bring difference in the team. He is quite arrogant and not a good learner. Not open to compromises for the betterment of the team balance.(not ready to go below 3, there is a case for him not being demoted as he caresses and times the ball , if he will play down the order he will get the soft ball. Also if he play down, he can milk the spinner with odd sixes down the ground.) But he wont be the long term option as age is not on his side

4.IMAD :imad

I am his massive advocate for captaincy. Reason is, he has the fire in belly and never die attitude. He is the risk worth taking. He offers with ball, bat and field. Not a good boy attitude in asad and azhar's mould. Hardworking guy and he has that pakistani thing in him which will bring a superstar in the team and suddenly we will see fighters and sledging to the opposition. Ofcourse, we are not sure of IMAD's skills as captain until we see it ourselves. He is one for the future investment and we can a guy who can captain Pak for atleast 8 years. But as the timid approach of selectors and board they don't seem to plan for more than next series so not expecting them to plan for 5 or 10 years.

PS: THESE ARE MY OBSERVATIONS and I can be wrong


I will also like the moderators @mod to add the poll. You guys can add your options with reasoning.
 
abughio said:
This thread is for selecting the Captain for Pakistan Team as the title suggest.

Keeping in mind the seniority complex of PCB and the need of the hour we have four options for me. You guys can suggest your own options too.. with reasonable reasons.
The options available to us in current scenario are:

1. Azhar :azhar2

He is already captaining our side. I am not in favor of changing captain in the middle of series. The positives which azhar's captaincy offers seems to be the hardworking players. Like we will have more good boys in the team in the future. but truly he is tactically inept in rotating the bowlers and more or less seems more reactive than proactive under different match situations. And sometimes he goes as planned like going for PLAN A,B or C. That's it.
Nevertheless his captaincy seem to improve in the last odi. Also he is quiet open to learning and adapting.

2. Sarfaraz :sarf

Active and vocal in the field, good improvement in comparison to azhar. Though, I have issues with his fitness which may be the reason of the drop catches in the test matches. And I also observed while watching that when we bowl around 80 overs he didn't backup the wickets. Also, he will be overburdened with captaining, batting and keeping with his fitness. He won't be the long term option with his fitness. He also brings the good boy option to the table for the management.

3. Hafeez :hafeez2

For me, he wasn't the option before but he captained Pakistan in the last odi and showed that one man can bring difference in the team. He is quite arrogant and not a good learner. Not open to compromises for the betterment of the team balance.(not ready to go below 3, there is a case for him not being demoted as he caresses and times the ball , if he will play down the order he will get the soft ball. Also if he play down, he can milk the spinner with odd sixes down the ground.) But he wont be the long term option as age is not on his side

4.IMAD :imad

I am his massive advocate for captaincy. Reason is, he has the fire in belly and never die attitude. He is the risk worth taking. He offers with ball, bat and field. Not a good boy attitude in asad and azhar's mould. Hardworking guy and he has that pakistani thing in him which will bring a superstar in the team and suddenly we will see fighters and sledging to the opposition. Ofcourse, we are not sure of IMAD's skills as captain until we see it ourselves. He is one for the future investment and we can a guy who can captain Pak for atleast 8 years. But as the timid approach of selectors and board they don't seem to plan for more than next series so not expecting them to plan for 5 or 10 years.

PS: THESE ARE MY OBSERVATIONS and I can be wrong


I will also like the moderators @mod to add the poll. You guys can add your options with reasoning.
Click to expand...

I like Imad, he should be VC. For now Sarfraz should be a shoe in for the C.

In context this fitness business is a bit of an odd thing to harp on.

He is not just not 'active' in the field. He is the most creditable captaincy experience of any candidate. He is tactically incredibly smart. He is a fighter who bats with no fear. He was the team's best batsman in the last ODI series he played.
 
New Yorker said:
I like Imad, he should be VC. For now Sarfraz should be a shoe in for the C.

In context this fitness business is a bit of an odd thing to harp on.

He is not just not 'active' in the field. He is the most creditable captaincy experience of any candidate. He is tactically incredibly smart. He is a fighter who bats with no fear. He was the team's best batsman in the last ODI series he played.
Click to expand...

Those who are advocating Sarfu - please check the recent NZ-BD Test (in fact series) to learn what can happen to a team that appoints a WK as Captain, who happens to be a main batsman of the side. And, Mushi is not even a T20/ODI Captain - only Test, which we play 3/4 times in a year. Here we are talking about a player in his 30s, over weight & not natuarally athletic to lead for around 10 Tests, 30 ODI & 5 T20 at least.
 
MMHS said:
Those who are advocating Sarfu - please check the recent NZ-BD Test (in fact series) to learn what can happen to a team that appoints a WK as Captain, who happens to be a main batsman of the side. And, Mushi is not even a T20/ODI Captain - only Test, which we play 3/4 times in a year. Here we are talking about a player in his 30s, over weight & not natuarally athletic to lead for around 10 Tests, 30 ODI & 5 T20 at least.
Click to expand...

That is what I wanted to say.. you wrote and explained it very well..
 
New Yorker said:
I like Imad, he should be VC. For now Sarfraz should be a shoe in for the C.

In context this fitness business is a bit of an odd thing to harp on.

He is not just not 'active' in the field. He is the most creditable captaincy experience of any candidate. He is tactically incredibly smart. He is a fighter who bats with no fear. He was the team's best batsman in the last ODI series he played.
Click to expand...

I like sarfaraz and his energy too but he wont survive long..there are many other things to watch out for.. I saw big change in Ahmad shahzad and in his batting as well after captaincy but he is not in the radar at all.
we dont have many options to advocate.
 
No.

Changing the captaincy and expecting to enter a winning streak would be like changing a bandage and expecting the disease to vanish.
 
abughio said:
That is what I wanted to say.. you wrote and explained it very well..
Click to expand...

In 1st page of this thread, you'll see a list of WKs - those were colossus of the game - played over 80/90/100 Tests in pre 90s era (when 10 Test in a year was rare for most players); some them played for 2 decades & were 1st name in team sheet, but they were not made Captain.

Tactically, WK is the best position for a Captain - he is at centre of the ground, closest to every fielder, watches batsman from behind, watches every ball, every bit of movement of the track & he is the most aware person of any bowling strategy - because he is part of individual strategy of every bowler.

Ideally, a WK should always be the captain. Also, he is there in the team for a specialist skill - if a WK struggled with bat, still he can be relaxed as long as he is keeping well. But, it's the work load that's against WK as Captain. Also, the nature of a WK's job is most roudy - he has to talk every ball, he has to encourage spinners, he has to sledge batsman, he has to receive almost every ball - either from bowler or from fielders. He has to bend on knees & standup at least for 540 times in a Test match fielding day.

For those reasons, mature Teams has often appointed WK as vice Captain for long term, but never Captain. Marsh, Knott, Doujon, Hilley, Grout, Evans, Kirmani.... were deputy to multiple Captains. A WK is the best advisor for his Captain, but his own work load is too much to focus on the role.

Already Rizwan looks a better WK than Sarfu - if he is made captain, he'll simply stop training & will try to survive on his batting - the result will be PAK playing with 2 WKs in same XI - like Captain Moin & WK Latif.

He is T20 Captain, which might be only responsibility he can manage.
 
you're wording this question to sustain a clear bias

anyone who knows cricket understands that their are many factors with Pakistan being such a mediocre side, but one of the big ones is Azhar Ali's captaincy

Will Pakistan start winning from tomorrow with a new captian NO

Will Pakistan be a BETTER side with a new Captain YES
 
MMHS said:
In 1st page of this thread, you'll see a list of WKs - those were colossus of the game - played over 80/90/100 Tests in pre 90s era (when 10 Test in a year was rare for most players); some them played for 2 decades & were 1st name in team sheet, but they were not made Captain.

Tactically, WK is the best position for a Captain - he is at centre of the ground, closest to every fielder, watches batsman from behind, watches every ball, every bit of movement of the track & he is the most aware person of any bowling strategy - because he is part of individual strategy of every bowler.

Ideally, a WK should always be the captain. Also, he is there in the team for a specialist skill - if a WK struggled with bat, still he can be relaxed as long as he is keeping well. But, it's the work load that's against WK as Captain. Also, the nature of a WK's job is most roudy - he has to talk every ball, he has to encourage spinners, he has to sledge batsman, he has to receive almost every ball - either from bowler or from fielders. He has to bend on knees & standup at least for 540 times in a Test match fielding day.

For those reasons, mature Teams has often appointed WK as vice Captain for long term, but never Captain. Marsh, Knott, Doujon, Hilley, Grout, Evans, Kirmani.... were deputy to multiple Captains. A WK is the best advisor for his Captain, but his own work load is too much to focus on the role.

Already Rizwan looks a better WK than Sarfu - if he is made captain, he'll simply stop training & will try to survive on his batting - the result will be PAK playing with 2 WKs in same XI - like Captain Moin & WK Latif.

He is T20 Captain, which might be only responsibility he can manage.
Click to expand...

Gilchrist can be case to prove our point .. he was lauded by many pundits for his vice-captaincy for steve waugh and ponting. although steve waugh didn't need his advice :D
 
I am his biggest fan but removing him from captaincy will go a long way to improving us.
 
MMHS said:
Those who are advocating Sarfu - please check the recent NZ-BD Test (in fact series) to learn what can happen to a team that appoints a WK as Captain, who happens to be a main batsman of the side. And, Mushi is not even a T20/ODI Captain - only Test, which we play 3/4 times in a year. Here we are talking about a player in his 30s, over weight & not natuarally athletic to lead for around 10 Tests, 30 ODI & 5 T20 at least.
Click to expand...

I dont quite understand the logic.

Is Azhar's captaincy a cautionary tale for those who advocate appointing as captain a....batsman?

Sarfu has been great as a T20 captain. He would by all evidence be a great ODI captain. Tactically no one is as good as he is.

He was the best bat in the last ODI series. He has just the right no fear attitude for this format.

Extra weight can be shed and fitness improved.

But no one will ever teach fearlessness and leadership skills to Azhar.
 
New Yorker said:
I dont quite understand the logic.

Is Azhar's captaincy a cautionary tale for those who advocate appointing as captain a....batsman?

Sarfu has been great as a T20 captain. He would by all evidence be a great ODI captain. Tactically no one is as good as he is.

He was the best bat in the last ODI series. He has just the right no fear attitude for this format.

Extra weight can be shed and fitness improved.

But no one will ever teach fearlessness and leadership skills to Azhar.
Click to expand...

More or less, I take T20 & ODI in same side, so yes - Sarfu can be a LO Captain, which I believe will be blunder - next Captain should take PAK to 2019 WC - Sarfu might need wheel chair for that.

Weight & fitness won't improve though - he is not getting younger & what didn't happen when he was an average team member, won't happen when he is Captain. Besides, I have actually explained in earlier post, why I don't think WKs are best choice for Captains.

Sarfu can be tactically astute (should be, most WKs are, as they are always in the middle of the action), but he can contribute that as a WK only also - need not to be honored with extra burden. Almost, every great Captains have attributed significant praise to their WK on tactical issues, even Bradman - Marsh was the go to guy for Chappel, Doujn for Lloyd, Knott for Tony, Tayor for Brearly, Grout for Benaud .......... but PAK needs to reward them with Captaincy, because in PAK only, I have seen Captaincy is taken as an honor, rather than a responsibility first - hence seniors are chosen for Captaincy, even someone like Rambo Raja, MoYo, Waqur (at 35) & Afridi.
 
MMHS said:
More or less, I take T20 & ODI in same side, so yes - Sarfu can be a LO Captain, which I believe will be blunder - <b>next Captain should take PAK to 2019 WC - Sarfu might need wheel chair for that. </b>

Weight & fitness won't improve though - he is not getting younger & what didn't happen when he was an average team member, won't happen when he is Captain. Besides, I have actually explained in earlier post, why I don't think WKs are best choice for Captains.

Sarfu can be tactically astute (should be, most WKs are, as they are always in the middle of the action), but he can contribute that as a WK only also - need not to be honored with extra burden. Almost, every great Captains have attributed significant praise to their WK on tactical issues, even Bradman - Marsh was the go to guy for Chappel, Doujn for Lloyd, Knott for Tony, Tayor for Brearly, Grout for Benaud .......... but PAK needs to reward them with Captaincy, because in PAK only, I have seen Captaincy is taken as an honor, rather than a responsibility first - hence seniors are chosen for Captaincy, even someone like Rambo Raja, MoYo, Waqur (at 35) & Afridi.
Click to expand...

Sarfraz might be over-weight but he has played in every format for Pakistan as a wicket-keeper batsman non-stop without getting injured. There is no reason to believe that he won't be able to play the next world cup in 2019 when he will be just 32/33.
 
MMHS said:
In 1st page of this thread, you'll see a list of WKs - those were colossus of the game - played over 80/90/100 Tests in pre 90s era (when 10 Test in a year was rare for most players); some them played for 2 decades & were 1st name in team sheet, but they were not made Captain.

Tactically, WK is the best position for a Captain - he is at centre of the ground, closest to every fielder, watches batsman from behind, watches every ball, every bit of movement of the track & he is the most aware person of any bowling strategy - because he is part of individual strategy of every bowler.

Ideally, a WK should always be the captain. Also, he is there in the team for a specialist skill - if a WK struggled with bat, still he can be relaxed as long as he is keeping well. But, it's the work load that's against WK as Captain. Also, the nature of a WK's job is most roudy - he has to talk every ball, he has to encourage spinners, he has to sledge batsman, he has to receive almost every ball - either from bowler or from fielders. He has to bend on knees & standup at least for 540 times in a Test match fielding day.

For those reasons, mature Teams has often appointed WK as vice Captain for long term, but never Captain. Marsh, Knott, Doujon, Hilley, Grout, Evans, Kirmani.... were deputy to multiple Captains. A WK is the best advisor for his Captain, but his own work load is too much to focus on the role.

Already Rizwan looks a better WK than Sarfu - if he is made captain, he'll simply stop training & will try to survive on his batting - the result will be PAK playing with 2 WKs in same XI - like Captain Moin & WK Latif.

He is T20 Captain, which might be only responsibility he can manage.
Click to expand...

Who then, in your opinion, should be our captain for each format?
 
The_Odd_One said:
Sarfraz might be over-weight but he has played in every format for Pakistan as a wicket-keeper batsman non-stop without getting injured. There is no reason to believe that he won't be able to play the next world cup in 2019 when he will be just 32/33.
Click to expand...

He didn't get injured, because he was never measured of proper standard - Sarfu is not WK fit, not even now, never was. You should notice that in his keeping against spinners - slight deviation, he basically blocks the ball.

If he is 30 now, he definitely can play in 2019 WC - my information tells me that Healy played his last ODI at 32 - that's Australian 32, not south Asian 32 & last Test at 34. May be, he had Gilly sniffing behind, but more or less, every WK has retired by 34-35; that again AUS/ENG/WI or SAF 35 - for Asian WKs - More, Mongia, Kalu, Yousuf .. all retired (read played last match - we don't retire in South Asia) at around 31-32 - Asian 31/32 - Sarfu is just about 1/2 years from that. His contacts can keep him till 2019 WC, but he might need wheel chair to reach for toss then.
 
MMHS said:
He didn't get injured, because he was never measured of proper standard - Sarfu is not WK fit, not even now, never was. You should notice that in his keeping against spinners - slight deviation, he basically blocks the ball.

If he is 30 now, he definitely can play in 2019 WC - my information tells me that Healy played his last ODI at 32 - that's Australian 32, not south Asian 32 & last Test at 34. May be, he had Gilly sniffing behind, but more or less, every WK has retired by 34-35; that again AUS/ENG/WI or SAF 35 - for Asian WKs - More, Mongia, Kalu, Yousuf .. all retired (read played last match - we don't retire in South Asia) at around 31-32 - Asian 31/32 - Sarfu is just about 1/2 years from that. His contacts can keep him till 2019 WC, but he might need wheel chair to reach for toss then.
Click to expand...

Sir it is 2017 now and 2019 WC is just about 2 years away not 10 years away. Sarfaraz will not need a wheelchair to go for the toss. Your own posts says that Healy played till 32 and that will be Sarf's age in 2019.
 
Square Drive said:
Who then, in your opinion, should be our captain for each format?
Click to expand...

This is purely my personal choice -

Test: YK Captain till ENG tour of 2018; Amir 1st VC, Babar 2nd VC. After that, YK steps down, but if he can manage, can play Test still.

ODI: MoHa Captain (No option, would have liked Malik, he won't take that), Amir Deputy, Imad 2nd Deputy till CT 2017 - after that, MoHa retires.

T20: Sarfu Captain, Amir Deputy, Imad 2nd Deputy. After proposed 2018 WC, Sarfu retires from T20 (he is not automatic choice even now)
 
Syed1 said:
Sir it is 2017 now and 2019 WC is just about 2 years away not 10 years away. Sarfaraz will not need a wheelchair to go for the toss. Your own posts says that Healy played till 32 and that will be Sarf's age in 2019.
Click to expand...

Yes, but you missed a key qualifier in my post - I was born in AUS, schooled in AUS & UK, now living in Canada but my flag is Bangladesh - so, I know a bit about "age qualifiers" in Cricket world.

Besides, WK is never, never a good choice for Captaincy - why, I have explained with enough examples. People will be fooling themselves if they think Sarfu is tactically better than Marsh, Knott, Grout, Doujon, Healy, Kirmani or Bob Taylor.
 
MMHS said:
He didn't get injured, because he was never measured of proper standard - Sarfu is not WK fit, not even now, never was. You should notice that in his keeping against spinners - slight deviation, he basically blocks the ball.

If he is 30 now, he definitely can play in 2019 WC - my information tells me that Healy played his last ODI at 32 - that's Australian 32, not south Asian 32 & last Test at 34. May be, he had Gilly sniffing behind, but more or less, every WK has retired by 34-35; that again AUS/ENG/WI or SAF 35 - for Asian WKs - More, Mongia, Kalu, Yousuf .. all retired (read played last match - we don't retire in South Asia) at around 31-32 - Asian 31/32 - Sarfu is just about 1/2 years from that. His contacts can keep him till 2019 WC, but he might need wheel chair to reach for toss then.
Click to expand...

As you yourself have said that most of the wicket-keepers retire at 34-35, Sarfraz will be 32/33 in 2019, so there is zero reason to believe in your hyperbole.
 
The_Odd_One said:
As you yourself have said that most of the wicket-keepers retire at 34-35, Sarfraz will be 32/33 in 2019, so there is zero reason to believe in your hyperbole.
Click to expand...

That's your choice.

In my post, I myself said that WK retires at 34-35 with a footnote; which you conveniently missed though. In that regard, actually Afridi is a good contender as well, he'll be only 38 & Sohail should focus on his all-round ability - at 35, he'll be a gun player in 2019 WC.
 
MMHS said:
That's your choice.

In my post, I myself said that WK retires at 34-35 with a footnote; which you conveniently missed though. In that regard, actually Afridi is a good contender as well, he'll be only 38 & Sohail should focus on his all-round ability - at 35, he'll be a gun player in 2019 WC.
Click to expand...

i agree with you that the workload will be too much as he will continue to get fatter after captaincy; i still think that he shud captain all 3 formats, BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE ELSE; the names of other wk's that you named were captained by really great captains; sarfu will be captained by the misbah's; azhar alis, etc.

amir for captaincy is an interesting choice. hes definitely one of few players that are pencilled down for all formats and seems to be the fittest of the bowling lot. has a genuine bowling IQ, according to the likes of holding so im interested to see how he'd do as captain

Karachi Kings in PSL didnt nominate him into leadership, even after malik gave it up so i guess he isnt rated highly to lead, even domestically...
 
sarmad1983 said:
i agree with you that the workload will be too much as he will continue to get fatter after captaincy; i still think that he shud captain all 3 formats, BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE ELSE; the names of other wk's that you named were captained by really great captains; sarfu will be captained by the misbah's; azhar alis, etc.

amir for captaincy is an interesting choice. hes definitely one of few players that are pencilled down for all formats and seems to be the fittest of the bowling lot. has a genuine bowling IQ, according to the likes of holding so im interested to see how he'd do as captain

Karachi Kings in PSL didnt nominate him into leadership, even after malik gave it up so i guess he isnt rated highly to lead, even domestically...
Click to expand...

KK didn't want controversy to their brand at the start of PSL - these are businessmen, more than cricket, they are more concerned with the brand.

The point is not about how great Ian, Tony, Steve, Panta or Benaud was, it's about a concept. Marsh wasn't the Captain of Western Australia Side, neither Knott for Kent, neither Jeff D for Jamaica. Long back, Sir Les Ames wasn't his County side.

Captaincy in cricket is a different job - experience doesn't make you better Captain - you have seen Misbah enough after 6 years. PAK Captaincy was Imran's first professional assignment - and he didn't do that bad. Also, being active or clapping hands doesn't make one better Captain - in that regard, none will ever be better than Afridi.

Sarfu is a very good player, & he was groomed from U19 days - that's PCB's mistake; I won't have even groomed a WK as National Captain.
 
MMHS said:
KK didn't want controversy to their brand at the start of PSL - these are businessmen, more than cricket, they are more concerned with the brand.

The point is not about how great Ian, Tony, Steve, Panta or Benaud was, it's about a concept. Marsh wasn't the Captain of Western Australia Side, neither Knott for Kent, neither Jeff D for Jamaica. Long back, Sir Les Ames wasn't his County side.

Captaincy in cricket is a different job - experience doesn't make you better Captain - you have seen Misbah enough after 6 years. PAK Captaincy was Imran's first professional assignment - and he didn't do that bad. Also, being active or clapping hands doesn't make one better Captain - in that regard, none will ever be better than Afridi.

Sarfu is a very good player, & he was groomed from U19 days - that's PCB's mistake; I won't have even groomed a WK as National Captain.
Click to expand...

Dhoni was successful as wicketkeeper and captain for India?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Dhoni was successful as wicketkeeper and captain for India?
Click to expand...

I was going to mention his name - these are exceptions, you hardly get such players.

Besides, you don't need to be a Captain to use your tactical nuances. Be Captain or not MS could have been handy to his Captain, if the Captain is receptive & himself not bot - so can be Sarfu.

Also, MS was appointed Captain at 24/25 & he left Test Captaincy at a similar age that PAK is going to appoint Sarfu. If PCB wanted Sarfraz as Captain, he should have been appointed as ODI Captain right after WC '15 & Misbah's deputy in Test team. MS was made Captain in early 2007, when he was officially just 25, without much prior experience & he has stepped down 2.5 years before next WC. Above all, MSD was one of the ATG ODI batsman - his position was always fixed in the team - it won't have hurt IND, if he had decided to leave gloves & play LO only as a batsman. How can you appoint someone (WK) Captain knowing that he is bound to struggle for fitness in 2.5 years time, and he is not an automatic choice as a batsman?

If he is appoint Captain, at one point PAK will have another WK keeping, while Sarfu is playing as a specialist bat, which he doesn't merit - you can mark this post.
 
MMHS said:
I was going to mention his name - these are exceptions, you hardly get such players.

Besides, you don't need to be a Captain to use your tactical nuances. Be Captain or not MS could have been handy to his Captain, if the Captain is receptive & himself not bot - so can be Sarfu.

Also, MS was appointed Captain at 24/25 & he left Test Captaincy at a similar age that PAK is going to appoint Sarfu. If PCB wanted Sarfraz as Captain, he should have been appointed as ODI Captain right after WC '15 & Misbah's deputy in Test team. MS was made Captain in early 2007, when he was officially just 25, without much prior experience & he has stepped down 2.5 years before next WC. Above all, MSD was one of the ATG ODI batsman - his position was always fixed in the team - it won't have hurt IND, if he had decided to leave gloves & play LO only as a batsman. How can you appoint someone (WK) Captain knowing that he is bound to struggle for fitness in 2.5 years time, and he is not an automatic choice as a batsman?

If he is appoint Captain, at one point PAK will have another WK keeping, while Sarfu is playing as a specialist bat, which he doesn't merit - you can mark this post.
Click to expand...

I think you have to explain why he is doing a good job in T20s but will fail in ODIs? I understand that you don't believe he has longevity but what are the reasons apart from that?

The deputy caveat doesnt help I think. To make best use of what he brings to the table: 1. tactical acumen 2. instilling fearlessness 4. delivering dependable runs. You need make him captain.

E.g If the captain is timid (Azhar) but the VC is aggressive, you will at best get a mixed message, at worst just plain confusion.

He could be advising someone else of course. But if he is fit enough to be deputy he is fit enough to captain. If he doesn't make the team the question is moot.

Whoever captains in his place, having him as VC, is going to be completely emasculated as a leader if he turns around to Sarfu every time he needs to make a decision.

Which quite frankly I think that is what most of us would hope Azhar does if he continues to cling to the job. A waste of space as a leader.

If Sarfu is VC a successor is not being groomed. By Sarfu. I'd be very relieved if the next captain was not an understudy of the Misbah/Azhar school of captaincy. Imad looks promising but I'd rather have him learn a bit more on the job before giving him the reins and discovering that he can't hack it by the time the WC comes around.

The problem with Hafeez is that I really don't believe that he has the form anymore to warrant a place in the side, this last performance notwithstanding. He has been a joke in domestics. And he is not tactically better than Sarfu.
 
New Yorker said:
I think you have to explain why he is doing a good job in T20s but will fail in ODIs? I understand that you don't believe he has longevity but what are the reasons apart from that?

The deputy caveat doesnt help I think. To make best use of what he brings to the table: 1. tactical acumen 2. instilling fearlessness 4. delivering dependable runs. You need make him captain.

E.g If the captain is timid (Azhar) but the VC is aggressive, you will at best get a mixed message, at worst just plain confusion.

He could be advising someone else of course. But if he is fit enough to be deputy he is fit enough to captain. If he doesn't make the team the question is moot.

Whoever captains in his place, having him as VC, is going to be completely emasculated as a leader if he turns around to Sarfu every time he needs to make a decision.

Which quite frankly I think that is what most of us would hope Azhar does if he continues to cling to the job. A waste of space as a leader.

If Sarfu is VC a successor is not being groomed. By Sarfu. I'd be very relieved if the next captain was not an understudy of the Misbah/Azhar school of captaincy. Imad looks promising but I'd rather have him learn a bit more on the job before giving him the reins and discovering that he can't hack it by the time the WC comes around.

The problem with Hafeez is that I really don't believe that he has the form anymore to warrant a place in the side, this last performance notwithstanding. He has been a joke in domestics. And he is not tactically better than Sarfu.
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I didn't say he'll fail in ODI - what will happen is, if he is made ODI Captain, due to being Captain, chances are high that he'll become complacent as automatic choice & his Keeping will suffer. Already a very poor WK - for a team like PAK, whose 80% strength/strategy is behind bowling shouldn't operate with poor WK.

As I said, I don't see much difference between T20 & ODI, so he will do much better as ODI Captain than Azhar - BUT PAK will play at least 5 times more ODI than T20 & the work load is higher as well - most importantly, the trade off for a shaky WK is least in T20 - hardly any catch (in fact ball) comes to WK, and the cost of one drop is not that high. In T20, WK's job is not much different from 1st Baseman in baseball.

As a team, PAK should be led by bowlers or all-rounders, who actually can attack with bowling. MoHa at least has a bowler in him, he understands how to create a wicket from building pressure. It's not that he was revolutionary at MCG, rather he was far better than the man he replaced.

There are not many choices left - since MoHa is going to stick around for a year at least, my point was to use him as Captain - keep other key players pressure free & allow to groom a deputy under him, for which my choice is Amir. Sarfu can be ODI Captain as well, but then where are you going to hide MoHa?

I am, never for a WK Captain, unless he is as good as MS or Gilly or Stuart or Sanga with bat; so that, if required, I can add a WK & play my Captain as specialist bat - Sanga's average shoots up by 20, when he is not WK, therefore these are safe investment.
 
MMHS said:
That's your choice.

In my post, I myself said that WK retires at 34-35 with a footnote; which you conveniently missed though. In that regard, actually Afridi is a good contender as well, he'll be only 38 & Sohail should focus on his all-round ability - at 35, he'll be a gun player in 2019 WC.
Click to expand...

I did not miss reading any part of your post. It just lacks substance. Someone who has not suffered an injury despite playing in every format nonstop for last 2 years is going to need a wheelchair in 2 years for toss is simply laughable and mother of all hyperboles.
 
The_Odd_One said:
I did not miss reading any part of your post. It just lacks substance. Someone who has not suffered an injury despite playing in every format nonstop for last 2 years is going to need a wheelchair in 2 years for toss is simply laughable and mother of all hyperboles.
Click to expand...

Let's leave the wheelchair part.

You decided not to find substance in the post, hence it's not touching you. Not in last 2 years - Sarfu is not even half fit for a WK right now - never was. The standard is set so low that, someone Rizwan looks like Rashid Latif.

I am trying for my last effort to make you understand from a real life example. I am not sure how long you have been watching cricket, but about 12 years back, PAK genuinely had the best young WK in world - KAkmal & that's endorsed by Ian Chappell, a guy who won't praise even Imran Khan, if he is playing against AUS.

Now, KAkmal was a fantastic WK prospect in 2005, he was around 25-26 (I am talking about genuine age), with very good batting skills & perfect physique for a WK for next 10 years. Unfortunately, he was too good a batsman for WK & Bob/Inzi made him ODI opener - by 2006, he was confirmed starter in 3 formats & Inzi/Malik made sure that no one comes close to him. From 2006 on wards, there was a massive decline in KAkmal's fitness (put on at least 10 extra KG) & by the blessings of his Captain, he toured ENG 2006 hiding injury, which actually cost PAK that Test series.

After that, KAkmal tried to survive as batsman who can keep & next few captains kept picking him - in fact, from 2005 to 2010, you'll notice often PAK didn't pick a back-up WK in the squad. It became chronic & by 2011, KAkmal became national enemy - BUT, this guy was good enough to finish career with 10K International runs & 600+ dismissals. All that because he got the assurance, that whatever he keeps, he is there for his batting.

There is another thread on Sarfu's WK - which I didn't touch because, it's hilarious to judge a WK on how many catches he is taking. I give another example - just this week our Mushi (Another pathetic WK) got injured & Imrul, who doesn't even keep for his Club/FC team was made to keep - and he took 6 catches in that innings!!!!!!!


Make Sarfy Captain - exactly same thing will happen. BCB at least has one excuse that Mushi make the team on batting merit - if he is struggling, it'll be Mahmudullah's loss - they'll pick a specialist WK for him & Mushi plays as batsman/Captain. It was same for MSD, Stuart, Sanga or Gilly - if they can't manage, they can simply play as batsman - Sanga actually averages 20+ when not keeping in Test; but for better team balance, he kept keeping in LOs. Sarfy is a very good cricketer, but he doesn't make the team on batting - if he is made Captain, at one point PAK will become 10 men team - Sarfy Captain & batsman; and a WK costing a specialist batsman's spot.
 
MMHS said:
I didn't say he'll fail in ODI - what will happen is, if he is made ODI Captain, due to being Captain, chances are high that he'll become complacent as automatic choice & his Keeping will suffer. Already a very poor WK - for a team like PAK, whose 80% strength/strategy is behind bowling shouldn't operate with poor WK.

As I said, I don't see much difference between T20 & ODI, so he will do much better as ODI Captain than Azhar - BUT PAK will play at least 5 times more ODI than T20 & the work load is higher as well - most importantly, the trade off for a shaky WK is least in T20 - hardly any catch (in fact ball) comes to WK, and the cost of one drop is not that high. In T20, WK's job is not much different from 1st Baseman in baseball.

As a team, PAK should be led by bowlers or all-rounders, who actually can attack with bowling. MoHa at least has a bowler in him, he understands how to create a wicket from building pressure. It's not that he was revolutionary at MCG, rather he was far better than the man he replaced.

There are not many choices left - since MoHa is going to stick around for a year at least, my point was to use him as Captain - keep other key players pressure free & allow to groom a deputy under him, for which my choice is Amir. Sarfu can be ODI Captain as well, but then where are you going to hide MoHa?

I am, never for a WK Captain, unless he is as good as MS or Gilly or Stuart or Sanga with bat; so that, if required, I can add a WK & play my Captain as specialist bat - Sanga's average shoots up by 20, when he is not WK, therefore these are safe investment.
Click to expand...

I concede that there may be a risk Sarfus wicketkeeping deteriorates as captain, but I dont know that this risk is greater than others. Like MoHa loosing whatever form he happens to have stumbled over. Meanwhile, there is some evidence I think for believing that Sarfus batting will become even better if he captains.

Bowling captains seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Why would Pakistan of all teams need this kind of captain now? If our biggest weakness is aggressive batting, would it not make more sense to pick an assertive batsman who can lead from the front?
 
Azhar's captaincy is the last thing Pakistan to worry. Frankly in ODIs current Pakistani Internationals does not know how to bat (they were playing 80s bat while 70s Pakistani batted like 90s; look for Video for Asif Iqbal, J Abbas and Miandad's batting), how to field (at least even 00s have safe pairs of hand) and how to bowl. With the exception of Hasan Ali, Amir, Hafiz - the Bowler and Babar none of them have even decent chance of representing First Class teams in India, Australia, South Africa or England; forget about representing India, Australia, South Africa or England. If I am selector I would not consider them for selecting for the other test playing countries except Zimbabawe with the exception of those four
 
Leadership, tactical nous, confidence in his bowlers, body language. Sarfaraz has got it.

He's going to be a fantastic captain inshaAllah.
 
Outstanding captain!!!
Hopefully Sarfraz will take us to glory in the Champions Trophy.
 
100% win record for Sarfraz so far :azhar2

he looks miles ahead of Azhar in terms of captaincy, can't wait for the real test, the CT :sarf

#SarfrazDhokaNhiDega #UmeedPeDuniaQayimHai
:pakflag2
 
Some shocking comments in this thread :o

We are not talking about football, we are talking about cricket and captaincy plays a key role in cricket.
 
My boy Saifi is the best captain in Pakistan and by the time he retires he will be the third best Pakistani captain after Immy and Waz.
 
sadida97 said:
why not the best ?
Click to expand...

I don't think he will be a very good Test captain. Also IK was not just our best captain he had an aura about him and was/is sort of a cult figure. Don't think Saifi can reach that level. I hope he proves me wrong.
 
Syed1 said:
I don't think he will be a very good Test captain. Also IK was not just our best captain he had an aura about him and was/is sort of a cult figure. Don't think Saifi can reach that level. I hope he proves me wrong.
Click to expand...

Y can't we can ur signature ?
 
literally Sarfraz's biggest supporters wouldn't have even imagined that he would lead the team to this sort of turnaround, pretty much overnight

Incredible!

to think all those years were wasted on Misbah / Azhar... :/
 
Though we never thought so quickly but yes captaincy make difference. People like misbah say " captain is as good as his team" but vice versa also true to an extent " team is as good as it's captain"
 
Abdul said:
Many people believe that Azhar Ali's captaincy is the only reason behind all of our losses in LOIs

Will Pakistan start winning matches from tomorrow if the captaincy is given to anyone else?
Click to expand...

Azhar Ali's captaincy WAS the only reason behind all of our losses in LOIs :)

Pakistan has started winning matches "from tomorrow"
 
I would like certain posters who pretend to know everything and claim to be "realists", to come back to this thread and own up to their words. Otherwise your posts are meaningless to us.
 
coy0607 said:
literally Sarfraz's biggest supporters wouldn't have even imagined that he would lead the team to this sort of turnaround, pretty much overnight

Incredible!

to think all those years were wasted on Misbah / Azhar... :/
Click to expand...

i thought sarfraz can be drastic turnaround, if he was able to get suitable team and PCB didnt do dirty stuff like it always does
 
I know few people are gonna attribute the entire CT campaign to Sarfu, and while yes he has been a HUGE upgrade on our last 3 ODI captains, maybe I'll stretch it back to even Inzi, so 4 if he keeps going like this, you have to remember the support staff has been excellent as well. Rixon, Arthur, Azhar have been excellent in instilling discipline and purpose in the team, not to mention the debut of 3 (?) players in the team and dumping out the trash which has been weighing us down since 2014.

So while it's not all down to captaincy (Misbah/Azhar would have botched England restriction I think) it still had an effect.
 
Suleiman said:
I know few people are gonna attribute the entire CT campaign to Sarfu, and while yes he has been a HUGE upgrade on our last 3 ODI captains, maybe I'll stretch it back to even Inzi, so 4 if he keeps going like this, you have to remember the support staff has been excellent as well. Rixon, Arthur, Azhar have been excellent in instilling discipline and purpose in the team, not to mention the debut of 3 (?) players in the team and dumping out the trash which has been weighing us down since 2014.

So while it's not all down to captaincy (Misbah/Azhar would have botched England restriction I think) it still had an effect.
Click to expand...

sarfraz is the formula one driver who is driving the car, the rest of the management are equal to the support staff behind the formula one driver, the team is the car

the car is as only good as the driver, so the team is only as good as sarfraz

a good management can help driver win formula one, but its the driver who gets the credit eventually and the support staff 'should' be doing their jobs they are assigned to do other wise they would make the tyre fall off the formula one car just like pak team in the first match vs india

indians maybe packed with superstars but kholi was ont a good captain so was with south africa
 
Last edited:
i would not rate wasim akram captaincy with sarfraz ahmed, based only on captaincy given

wasim has not win any ICC tournaments

i would rate younis khan better than wasim, and i would rate sarfraz better than younis khan sarfraz has already one ICC trophy under his belt

i would rate younis khan under sarfraz because younis khan still had very poor win to lose percentage while sarfraz is doing brilliantly until now and that, sarfraz given PCB corrupt management is takling both the management and the staff cleverly which younis khan perhaps didnt and thus ouster from captaincy
 
Syed1 said:
My boy Saifi is the best captain in Pakistan and by the time he retires he will be the third best Pakistani captain after Immy and Waz.
Click to expand...

He is better than Wasim for sure and hopefully will reach the level of Imran by the time he retires.
 
Suleiman said:
I know few people are gonna attribute the entire CT campaign to Sarfu, and while yes he has been a HUGE upgrade on our last 3 ODI captains, maybe I'll stretch it back to even Inzi, so 4 if he keeps going like this, you have to remember the support staff has been excellent as well. Rixon, Arthur, Azhar have been excellent in instilling discipline and purpose in the team, not to mention the debut of 3 (?) players in the team and dumping out the trash which has been weighing us down since 2014.

So while it's not all down to captaincy (Misbah/Azhar would have botched England restriction I think) it still had an effect.
Click to expand...

What was preventing other captain's from debuting youngsters? Azhar you can excuse because he debuted plenty of them in his tenure, however, he was a very bad captain. BUT how many new youngsters came during the era of Afridi and Misbah the saviour? You can probably count them all on one hand.

Ask yourself would Afridi/Misbah debut THREE youngsters in a world tournament?

Sarfaraz already has more achievements in his 10 ODIs than what Afridi/Misbah/Azhar managed throughout their tenures.


All hail the new KING. Long may he reign.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
He is better than Wasim for sure and hopefully will reach the level of Imran by the time he retires.
Click to expand...

Yaar.. he might be able to emulate IK in terms of cricketing achievements, but IK was a cult figure, he had charisma and an aura about him. Saifi is a brilliant captain and an honest trier but he may never be able to be a bigger star in Pakistan than IK.
 
Certain PP experts would say "Making Sarfraz captain will not change anything" pretty regularly and in many threads. Goes to show what drives people's opinion on cricket in our country. Sarfraz has been making these experts eat humble pies ever since he became part of this team and as captain he continues this. He's already proven that he's the sharpest guy in the team and he took a bunch of average performing players to give their best and beat the top teams. He's got a long way to go but seeing how he's overcome all that he's faced in the past is a sign of a very tough individual.
 
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