Cabinet approves bill to increase fines for eating in public during Ramazan

[Major]

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) government has made violating the eating restrictions during Ramazan heavier on the wallet, increasing the fines by up to 1,000 per cent.

The government had also decided that cinemas may not be open during fasting hours of the holy month.

A senior government official told The Express Tribune that the Religious Affairs and Interfaith Harmony Division had moved a summary to the cabinet division on January 16, 2018 to increase fines by 100 per cent against those who eat in public during fasting hours in the holy month of Ramazan.

The cabinet, in its meeting on January 16, 2018, was informed that the Ehtram-e-Ramazan Ordinance 1981 prohibited the eating and serving of eatables in public or various establishments as well as enforcing other rules for observing the sanctity of the holy month of Ramazan.

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The cabinet was informed that a private bill namely Ehtram-e-Ramazan Amendment Bill 2017 was moved by Senator Chaudhry Tanvir Khan and the Senate Standing Committee on Religious Affairs had recommended the same with slight amendments.

The bill aimed at increasing the fine tiers from Rs500 to Rs5,000 for individuals, from Rs500 to Rs25,000 for restaurants and eateries, and from Rs25,000 to Rs500,000 for cinemas and TV channels. Furthermore, it would require cinemas to stay closed in the month of Ramzan during fasting hours in addition to the time periods already mentioned in the ordinance.

‘Teenagers spend ‘a big chunk’ of their budget on fast food’

The cabinet was further informed that the private bill as recommended by the senate standing committee had been vetted by Law and Justice Division that Religious Affairs Division had submitted a summary to the cabinet committee for disposal of Legislative Cases in support of the bill by the government in the Parliament and that the CCLC had recommended the same for approval of the cabinet.

The cabinet was solicited to approve the amendment bill and did just that.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1623155/1/

 

[Major]

but but but India and beef ban..............


our failed state never fails to impress the world...................

 

[ElIdolo]

but but but India and beef ban..............


our failed state never fails to impress the world...................

Eating in public during Ramzan is fined in almost all Muslim countries. The problem here is that India is a "secular" country and not a Hindu country which makes it even more dubious. Before Bhutto, Pakistanis had no alcohol ban at people could drink it in public as well because then Pakistan was a borderline secular country.

 

[Slog]

but but but India and beef ban..............


our failed state never fails to impress the world...................

Clearly the issue at hand goes over your head

India is a secular country and hence why it is taken to task over its antics. If it declared itself a Hindu rashtra then such criticism wouldnt be warranted

Pakistan is an Islamic country and hence its not surprising to see it enforce rules also enforced by other Islamic countries. I do not personally agree with them but there is no hypocrisy here.

Try to understand the arguments before random posts lacking logic

 

[Saeed]

People along with N league members will simply eat in private. These laws only exist to show public piety and oppress the poor even more. Do N League members and this Cabinet even fast? I really doubt it.

 

[Alam_dar]

There is no excuse for putting people to death when they leave Islam, and to punish them when they eat in Ramadhan.

This excuse of Pakistan being Islamic and India being Secular is a very lame one.

In both cases, the basic human rights are violated, either it is been ban, or Ramadhan ban.

 

[Alam_dar]

If these poor hungry children have no rights to punish others for eating openly, then Roozydar also got no right to punish others for eating openly.

 

[Major]

Clearly the issue at hand goes over your head

India is a secular country and hence why it is taken to task over its antics. If it declared itself a Hindu rashtra then such criticism wouldnt be warranted

Pakistan is an Islamic country and hence its not surprising to see it enforce rules also enforced by other Islamic countries. I do not personally agree with them but there is no hypocrisy here.

Try to understand the arguments before random posts lacking logic

so you are saying that once you come under the islamic state banner the placement of any stupid rule is justifiable?

i think its time Pakistan edits its flag and removes the white part. Because its an islamic country only.

Israel is also referred as the Jewish state, so that justifies their actions to according to above logic

 

[cricketjoshila]

Clearly the issue at hand goes over your head

India is a secular country and hence why it is taken to task over its antics. If it declared itself a Hindu rashtra then such criticism wouldnt be warranted

Pakistan is an Islamic country and hence its not surprising to see it enforce rules also enforced by other Islamic countries. I do not personally agree with them but there is no hypocrisy here.

Try to understand the arguments before random posts lacking logic

Basically we will do what we want and will also tell you what you should do.

 

[Slog]

Basically we will do what we want and will also tell you what you should do.

Pakistanis arent the only people which criticize India on this

in fact their criticism doesnt matter largely. However many international publications have also referenced it which brings India bad press

 

[Alam_dar]

Pakistanis arent the only people which criticize India on this

in fact their criticism doesnt matter largely. However many international publications have also referenced it which brings India bad press

Strange logic.

Pakistan killing people in name of blasphemy and Irtadad and ban upon Tableegh/Preeching of any religion other than Islam are 10 times more merciless and tyrannical than ban on beef. And International Publications criticizing these tyrannical laws and punishments 10 times more than beef ban.

But still you think only India comes into bad press while being Islamic Republic washed all the tyrannical laws of Pakistan?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistanis arent the only people which criticize India on this

in fact their criticism doesnt matter largely. However many international publications have also referenced it which brings India bad press

US allows its citizens to carry arms as a fundamental right. It gets bad press because of that. Do they care? No. Its their way of life.

Muslim countries ban eating in public and punish people for doing so during Ramzaan. They get criticised but its their way of life.

There are so many examples like this.

Same way we have our way of life. With our size of population we will have our own system and simply not copy anyone else's.

 

[Slog]

Strange logic.

Pakistan killing people in name of blasphemy and Irtadad and ban upon Tableegh/Preeching of any religion other than Islam are 10 times more merciless and tyrannical than ban on beef. And International Publications criticizing these tyrannical laws and punishments 10 times more than beef ban.

But still you think only India comes into bad press while being Islamic Republic washed all the tyrannical laws of Pakistan?

stop making things out of thin air

I never said any of that

 

[barah_admi]

but but but India and beef ban..............


our failed state never fails to impress the world...................

What has this got to do with India?

A Muslim state is governed by Islamic laws, which state that one MUST fast during the month, unless they are pregnant, during menses or severe medical conditions. That does not inhibit someone from eating at home, which many may still do.

None of that is restricting someone from eating a particular type of meat, which is what you are alluding to. It also doesnt stop non Muslims from eating.

 

[ElIdolo]

If these poor hungry children have no rights to punish others for eating openly, then Roozydar also got no right to punish others for eating openly.
View attachment 78573

Kids are exempted from this law. How difficult is that to understand?

 

[Major]

What has this got to do with India?

A Muslim state is governed by Islamic laws, which state that one MUST fast during the month, unless they are pregnant, during menses or severe medical conditions. That does not inhibit someone from eating at home, which many may still do.

None of that is restricting someone from eating a particular type of meat, which is what you are alluding to. It also doesnt stop non Muslims from eating.

Come to Pakistan and watch how this law will get implemented.
Restaurants are forcefully shut. People who don't fast end up suffering because of this forced religion

I think there are articles available online of people getting beaten for eating during ramazan.

 

[Alam_dar]

US allows its citizens to carry arms as a fundamental right. It gets bad press because of that. Do they care? No. Its their way of life.

Muslim countries ban eating in public and punish people for doing so during Ramzaan. They get criticised but its their way of life.

There are so many examples like this.

Same way we have our way of life. With our size of population we will have our own system and simply not copy anyone else's.

I am afraid you have a big misunderstanding here.

Carrying weapons is a "Personal Law".

But punishing other person while you fast, it does not comes under the personal law, but it comes under the oppression of other and usurpation of Basic Human Rights.

You are free to FAST, but you are not allowed to demand others to stop eating and drinking for your personal beliefs.

To whatever size you grow, you are not allowed to take the basic human rights away from the minorities.

In fact Muslims are totally hypocrite when they criticize ban upon beef in India where Hindus also coming up with same lame excuse of Respecting Religion and their bigger size etc.

 

[Alam_dar]

Kids are exempted from this law. How difficult is that to understand?

I am afraid you didn't understand my post.
It is not about kids being exempted from Fasting, but it is about "Dil Azari" of hungry children.

Muslims come up with lame excuse that they are allowed to punish others (adults of any Religion) for eating drinking during Ramadhan while they fasted for 12 hours and the others do their "Dil Azari" when they eat in front of them.

But these poor kids are hungry for years and sometimes don't get to eat for many days. Still they do not punish people who eat Chicken and Nihari in open markets by bring the same lame excuse of "Dil Azari".

Please read once more. I just hope you get the message.

 

[Madplayer]

This law has no place in today's world. Why ban eating?

However i am completely in favour of banning alcohol in any size and quantity for the betterment of society because they is ZERO good that comes out of alcohol. People shouldnt be allowed to harm their own health so blatantly.

 

[Major]

This law has no place in today's world. Why ban eating?

However i am completely in favour of banning alcohol in any size and quantity for the betterment of society because they is ZERO good that comes out of alcohol. People shouldnt be allowed to harm their own health so blatantly.

Again that would be stupid. Because alachol would still be sold in black. So why not gain the tax advantage
We saw the result of prohibition in US. What year was it again?

 

[Madplayer]

Again that would be stupid. Because alachol would still be sold in black. So why not gain the tax advantage
We saw the result of prohibition in US. What year was it again?

It also depends on the society you are talking about and the social norms and values it follows. If the general values and norms support the law of government, it is bound to be an effective one. I have no clue when US banned alcohol but pretty sure the norms in US didnt align with this law.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

so you are saying that once you come under the islamic state banner the placement of any stupid rule is justifiable?

i think its time Pakistan edits its flag and removes the white part. Because its an islamic country only.

Israel is also referred as the Jewish state, so that justifies their actions to according to above logic

I think the issue for me isn't implementing Islamic law. If that's what people want, fine they should have it. But why is it only laws like this that get implemented? Why not implement Islamic laws which prevent fraud, or punish tax evasion? Or why not implement laws which punish vigilante mob riots? Or punish law officials who accept bribes?

This to me suggests Islamic laws like this are just window dressing which effectively serves to distract the public from the actual criminal behaviour and fraud which is being carried out at the top level. There are too many examples to put them down here.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What has this got to do with India?

A Muslim state is governed by Islamic laws, which state that one MUST fast during the month, unless they are pregnant, during menses or severe medical conditions. That does not inhibit someone from eating at home, which many may still do.

None of that is restricting someone from eating a particular type of meat, which is what you are alluding to. It also doesnt stop non Muslims from eating.

Well said. As an Islamic nation, it is the state's duty to make sure everyone follows the rules. No compulsion in religion and God will judge us are excuse given by liberals so that they can flout every rule. This is what I have always wanted for India. When people go away from God, it is the state's duty to bring them back to the right path.

 

[Alam_dar]

I think the issue for me isn't implementing Islamic law. If that's what people want, fine they should have it.

It is totally wrong.

Fundamental rule is this that no Law could be made which is against the "Basic Human Rights" of others (even of minorities).

Therefore, even if Muslims are in absolute majority in Pakistan, but they have no Right to pass laws which usurp the basic human rights of the minorities.


Muslims are fasting for themselves. They are not allowed to beat and punish the minorities and to compel them not to eat and drink in the open.


Look here how an 82 years old elderly Hindu man was beaten in name of disrespecting Ramadhan.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...erly-hindu-man-beaten-up-eating-a7079316.html

 

[DeadBall]

About time, since now that all the major issues have been resolved.

 

[www787]

Foreign educated incompetent hypocrite government would implement such laws to appeal to naive population to get votes who have memorized/read Qu'ran in Arabic but have failed to understand the meaning because majority of them do not speak Arabic.

 

[Major]

I find it hilarious the way some justified this action.
Religion being the factor

Israel is known to be a Jewish state, that is enough justification for what they do?

 

[Major]

Foreign educated incompetent hypocrite government would implement such laws to appeal to naive population to get votes who have memorized/read Qu'ran in Arabic but have failed to understand the meaning because majority of them do not speak Arabic.

One thing I have notice is that foreign pakistanis, especially the british ones is that they live in UK but are always promoting for Sharia and stuff back home, creating problems for the ones who actually live there

 

[Saeed]

One thing I have notice is that foreign pakistanis, especially the british ones is that they live in UK but are always promoting for Sharia and stuff back home, creating problems for the ones who actually live there

Yep, I personally saw a lot of British Pakistanis promoting this bill at Naya Pakistan Youth Club. Blaming foriegn Pakistanis is just a distraction from real issues. Blame N-League for coming up with pointless laws and they are not even going to follow their own laws.

 

[barah_admi]

Come to Pakistan and watch how this law will get implemented.
Restaurants are forcefully shut. People who don't fast end up suffering because of this forced religion

I think there are articles available online of people getting beaten for eating during ramazan.

I've been to Pakistan and the vast majority of the population fasts during the month, I'm sure they wouldn't want to walk past restaurants that are open, cooking and smelling. Deal with it.

 

[barah_admi]

Well said. As an Islamic nation, it is the state's duty to make sure everyone follows the rules. No compulsion in religion and God will judge us are excuse given by liberals so that they can flout every rule. This is what I have always wanted for India. When people go away from God, it is the state's duty to bring them back to the right path.

"No compulsion in religion" is a section of the Quran which deals with Muslims imposing their will and trying to force others to convert. That is what Allah means when he says that, i.e. we are not allowed to do this.

This law does not stop a single soul, non-Muslims in particular from eating, they are just inhibited from eating in public places. I see no wrong in that, it is nothing like the INdian government imposing a blanket ban on meat...while being the planet's largest beef supplier.

 

[barah_admi]

It is totally wrong.

Fundamental rule is this that no Law could be made which is against the "Basic Human Rights" of others (even of minorities).

Therefore, even if Muslims are in absolute majority in Pakistan, but they have no Right to pass laws which usurp the basic human rights of the minorities.


Muslims are fasting for themselves. They are not allowed to beat and punish the minorities and to compel them not to eat and drink in the open.


Look here how an 82 years old elderly Hindu man was beaten in name of disrespecting Ramadhan.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...erly-hindu-man-beaten-up-eating-a7079316.html

IF this story is true (the Independent has often been found lacking in its journalism) then it is wrong. Islamically, nothing forces a non Muslim to abide by Islamic law HOWEVER, if the law states one should not eat in public, then all members of that country should abide by it. BUT it should be the established police and courts that decide on that, not mob rule.

In the uK for example ,regardless of what religion you belong to, all businesses must be closed during Christmas. It is a great inconvenience to those of us who don't celebrate it but we obey the law of the land. However, mob rule does not decide this, the establishment does.

 

[Major]

I've been to Pakistan and the vast majority of the population fasts during the month, I'm sure they wouldn't want to walk past restaurants that are open, cooking and smelling. Deal with it.

SO overseas Pakistanis have to suffer when they fast?

I use to fast in Canada, and never once was i ever disturbed by restaurants being open. Infact, i sat around with my friends in the cafeteria never had a problem. even if i did had a problem(which i never had) then i would had just walked away simple as that.

Dont give me this ** that such and such thing takes place.

I had an uncle who didn't fast, and his co workers were always judging and trying to catch him red handed for eating in public.

Thing is, these rules arn't made to help the fasters. THese rules are made to force the public to fast. Like i said before, forced religion.

And yes we will have to deal with it, unlike your overseas. We have to deal with this, the blasphemy law, the cyber laws, the blood money law and whole other **.

but the ones who love these laws dont bother living here

 

[barah_admi]

SO overseas Pakistanis have to suffer when they fast?

I use to fast in Canada, and never once was i ever disturbed by restaurants being open. Infact, i sat around with my friends in the cafeteria never had a problem. even if i did had a problem(which i never had) then i would had just walked away simple as that.

Dont give me this ** that such and such thing takes place.

I had an uncle who didn't fast, and his co workers were always judging and trying to catch him red handed for eating in public.

Thing is, these rules arn't made to help the fasters. THese rules are made to force the public to fast. Like i said before, forced religion.

And yes we will have to deal with it, unlike your overseas. We have to deal with this, the blasphemy law, the cyber laws, the blood money law and whole other **.

but the ones who love these laws dont bother living here

Like I said, the vast majority of the country fasts and as an Islamic state, it has every right o impose it's rules and regulations within a legal framework, the same way the UK does (as I gave the example of Christmas).

Your problem is you don't want to fast and don't like Islamic law being imposed. Stay in Canada during ramadan then.

 

[Major]

"No compulsion in religion" is a section of the Quran which deals with Muslims imposing their will and trying to force others to convert. That is what Allah means when he says that, i.e. we are not allowed to do this.

This law does not stop a single soul, non-Muslims in particular from eating, they are just inhibited from eating in public places. I see no wrong in that, it is nothing like the INdian government imposing a blanket ban on meat...while being the planet's largest beef supplier.

yes yes we know what the ACTUAL saying is.

thing is, thats not how the rule always get applied here. THats the reality.

DIfferent between on paper and what gets applied.

Blood money law is there for everyone to see. Look how it gets applied. Its forced.

Religion conversion rule also exist. But yet we have forced conversion.

I think by now, everyone should have an idea how religious laws are applied. They are forced...

 

[Major]

Like I said, the vast majority of the country fasts and as an Islamic state, it has every right o impose it's rules and regulations within a legal framework, the same way the UK does (as I gave the example of Christmas).

Your problem is you don't want to fast and don't like Islamic law being imposed. Stay in Canada during ramadan then.

no crappy law which violates human rights should be applied.

WHo said i dont fast? I fast in every ramazan. But just because i fast, doesnt mean my Fast should be a problem for others.

Hmm, i like how you just assumed i dont fast.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The purpose of collective fasting is to show your religious muscle, not to feel piety and giving up on pleasures.

 

[Markhor]

Wonder if its related to the recent Sharia protests. This comes not soon after the Faizabad debacle. In an election year, PMLN is looking to shore up its vote amongst the religious right, especially with TLY on the march.

This is pure politics, not holding up Islamic principles.

 

[Major]

you know whats even more hilarious.

a traffic violation on bike only costs 300 rupees, and a car violation cost 500 rupees.

however, eating in public is a much bigger danger to the life of the ones fasting....

 

[DeadBall]

Like I said, the vast majority of the country fasts and as an Islamic state, it has every right o impose it's rules and regulations within a legal framework, the same way the UK does (as I gave the example of Christmas).

Your problem is you don't want to fast and don't like Islamic law being imposed. Stay in Canada during ramadan then.

What was the Christmas example. Couldn't find it.

 

[Alam_dar]

In the uK for example ,regardless of what religion you belong to, all businesses must be closed during Christmas. It is a great inconvenience to those of us who don't celebrate it but we obey the law of the land. However, mob rule does not decide this, the establishment does.

Business is not a "personal matter", but linked to the commercial activities of whole community.

Nobody compel you to celebrate Christmas.

But in name of respect of fasting, you are compelling others to stop eating and drinking, which is totally a personal matter.

 

[DeadBall]

In the uK for example ,regardless of what religion you belong to, all businesses must be closed during Christmas. It is a great inconvenience to those of us who don't celebrate it but we obey the law of the land. However, mob rule does not decide this, the establishment does.

Ok found it. Also everything is closed in Pakistan for three days during Eid. It could be a major inconvinience for the Christians and other minorities who want to do business at the time. Also in the UK and Europe all businesses are closed and if the Muslim businesses operated it would be of little to no use.

I particularly like how you compare a few days holidays (Three for Christmas and Two for New Years) to forcing fines, beatings etc on people for not being able to eat in public for a month.

 

[Alam_dar]

Like I said, the vast majority of the country fasts and as an Islamic state, it has every right o impose it's rules and regulations within a legal framework, the same way the UK does (as I gave the example of Christmas).

The legal framework of vast majority ends when the basic human rights of minorities begins.

No vast majority is allowed to make a single law which violates the basic human rights.

 

[Major]

Ok found it. Also everything is closed in Pakistan for three days during Eid. It could be a major inconvinience for the Christians and other minorities who want to do business at the time. Also in the UK and Europe all businesses are closed and if the Muslim businesses operated it would be of little to no use.

I particularly like how you compare a few days holidays (Three for Christmas and Two for New Years) to forcing fines, beatings etc on people for not being able to eat in public for a month.

na, on eid some shops and bakeries are open.

my first meal after ramazan is a sandwich from tehzeeb on eid day

 

[DeadBall]

na, on eid some shops and bakeries are open.

my first meal after ramazan is a sandwich from tehzeeb on eid day

I know they are open but those are eateries and random shops trying to utilize the free time the public has on its hands, some are also open here and in the UK during the holidays as it attracts the most customers. I want to know what he exactly meant with businesses.

 

[Alam_dar]

"No compulsion in religion" is a section of the Quran which deals with Muslims imposing their will and trying to force others to convert. That is what Allah means when he says that, i.e. we are not allowed to do this.

This is also a False propaganda by present day Muslims.

According to Muslim Scholars this verse of "NO Compulsion" had been later abrogated by the verse of "Qatal" (i.e. to kill the Mushrikeen wherever they are found).

According to Quran (Surah Tauba 29) only Ahle Kitab (i.e. Christians/Jews/Zoroastrians) will not be "compelled" to change their religion, but they are allowed to pay the Jizya and keep on practising their religion.

But as far as Mushrikeen are concerned, then after verse of Qatal, they will be "compelled" to either accept Islam, or they should be killed.


Here you could read about it in more details:

https://islamqa.info/en/34770

Question:

Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]
“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
What is your opinion concerning that?.

Answer:

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken (i.e. Ahle Kitaab), such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah (i.e. Ahle Kitaab).
The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken (i.e. Ahle Kitaab), because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter ...
Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

==============

So this much to "No Compulsion".

Actually compulsion is every where when a person is denied his basic human right and threatened to be killed if he leaves Islam.

And compulsion is there when Non Muslims are not allowed to do Tableegh of their views and they will be killed if they do so.

 

[barah_admi]

Ok found it. Also everything is closed in Pakistan for three days during Eid. It could be a major inconvinience for the Christians and other minorities who want to do business at the time. Also in the UK and Europe all businesses are closed and if the Muslim businesses operated it would be of little to no use.

I particularly like how you compare a few days holidays (Three for Christmas and Two for New Years) to forcing fines, beatings etc on people for not being able to eat in public for a month.

It's a comparison based on laws/rule/regulations enforced by a government with regards to a religion that has influence in that particular nation. If you dislike Islam, just say it but don't act like it is unusual to Pakistan or Muslim countries, because there is no intellectual basis you can argue with me on that.

 

[barah_admi]

This is also a False propaganda by present day Muslims.

According to Muslim Scholars this verse of "NO Compulsion" had been later abrogated by the verse of "Qatal" (i.e. to kill the Mushrikeen wherever they are found).

According to Quran (Surah Tauba 29) only Ahle Kitab (i.e. Christians/Jews/Zoroastrians) will not be "compelled" to change their religion, but they are allowed to pay the Jizya and keep on practising their religion.

But as far as Mushrikeen are concerned, then after verse of Qatal, they will be "compelled" to either accept Islam, or they should be killed.


Here you could read about it in more details:

https://islamqa.info/en/34770

Question:

Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]
“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
What is your opinion concerning that?.

Answer:

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken (i.e. Ahle Kitaab), such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah (i.e. Ahle Kitaab).
The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken (i.e. Ahle Kitaab), because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter ...
Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

==============

So this much to "No Compulsion".

Actually compulsion is every where when a person is denied his basic human right and threatened to be killed if he leaves Islam.

And compulsion is there when Non Muslims are not allowed to do Tableegh of their views and they will be killed if they do so.

See, this is when it is important to be educated on all round issues of Islam, with historical context. The verses you quoted specifically deal with war time situations. Your heart is in the right place but you should read around the topic more often.

The greatest example is the example of Prophet Muhammad PBUHs conquest of Makkah, when he could have slaughtered every single non Muslim, pagan or otherwise, but he did not. Almost the entire population converted, not through force but through seeing the mercy of our Prophet. Many stayed pagan and converted in later generations.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

One thing I have notice is that foreign pakistanis, especially the british ones is that they live in UK but are always promoting for Sharia and stuff back home, creating problems for the ones who actually live there

Typical burger kid explanation. "It's not our fault we follow Islamic law and us burger kids can't eat burgers during Ramadhan. it's the British Pakistanis!"

It's your country, deal with it. No one is forcing your society to do anything. If you don't like Pakistan and it's laws then apply for a visa somewhere else instead of whining about life where you live.

 

[Proactive_]

Fined for eating in 2018? Bizarre.

 

[Alam_dar]

The greatest example is the example of Prophet Muhammad PBUHs conquest of Makkah, when he could have slaughtered every single non Muslim, pagan or otherwise, but he did not. Almost the entire population converted, not through force but through seeing the mercy of our Prophet. Many stayed pagan and converted in later generations.

I am afraid you have to do detailed study here as you are making a mistake. Please note:

(1) Fath Mecca happened in 8th Hijri, while the "Verse of Sword" (i.e. to kill all the polytheist wherever they are found) was revealed in 9th Hijri.

(2) Secondly, even before the verse of sword, and even before victory of Mecca, Muslims were indeed killing the men of the defeated nation and making their women and children slaves.

The Kuffar of Mecca were not killed only due to one reason, and that was they got the "Relationship" with Prophet Muhammad. Had they got no relationship, then most probably they would have also been killed.

Example is Banu Qurayzah.

Their mistake was very minute. They practically didn't fight against Muslims, but they were charged that Kuffar wrote letters to them and they answered the kuffar.

Upon this minute mistake, all of their men were slaughtered after they put down their weapons and they let the Muslims to make them the Prisoners.
Among those slaughtered men there were also the young boys of age 12-14 (who got the naval hairs). And all of their women and small children were made slaves.

The incident of Banu Qurayzah took place in 5th Hijri (at time of war of Trench).

Then we have many other wars like Ghazwa of Banu Mustalaq (also happened in 5th Hijri) where men were killed and women and children were made slaves.

Therefore, Kuffar of Mecca were not slaughtered only due to the reason that they got relationship with the messenger.


(3) I already told you that please read the background.
I already told you all the 4 Imams are unanimous that after the verse of sword all the Kuffar were forced to convert to Islam, otherwise they would be killed.
Kuffar were not allowed to pay the Jizya and practice their religion any more.
The permission of Jizya was only for Ahle Kitaab.

Sahaba practiced upon it and Hadhrat Umar wanted to kill the Majoos of Iran, till Sahaba told him that Majoos also belong to Ahle Kitaab and the holy prophet took Jizya from them.


(4) The fatwa of Saudi Muftis is very clear (posted by me above) that Jizya is only from Ahle Kitaab, while Kuffar should be compelled to convert otherwise they should be killed.
And they are also very clear that verse of No Compulsion was revealed in the initial period of Madina, but it was later abrogated by the verse of sword in 9th Hijri.

 

[Alam_dar]

It's a comparison based on laws/rule/regulations enforced by a government with regards to a religion that has influence in that particular nation. If you dislike Islam, just say it but don't act like it is unusual to Pakistan or Muslim countries, because there is no intellectual basis you can argue with me on that.

I already answered it in post 41 of this thread.

Business is not a personal matter, but linked to the commercial activities of whole community.

While "Eating" & "Drinking" is totally "Personal Matter" and also Basic Human Right to eat and drink whenever one feels need for it.

That is why even during the closed days/holidays, whole markets are close, except the Bakeries and Restaurants who even to remain open on holidays.

No Religion and No Majority has the right to usurp the Basic Human Rights of minorities.

 

[Alam_dar]

(1) And it is also strange that Muslims give the logic that Fasting is an "Exam" that how a Momin controls himself for the sake of Allah.

Why then Muslims want to minimize this so called Exam by not letting anyone eat in front of them?


Also no Muslim has up till given answer to this question about Dil Azari (the excuse which is presented for punishing others for eating in Ramadhan).

 

[Alam_dar]

Bidah (Innovation):

Is it proven that Quran or Holy Prophet gave the orders to Punish the Non Muslims if they eat in front of Muslims?

It seems that it is a sinful Bidah by the Muslims of today who want to play "Shah say ziada Shah ki Wafadari".

Present day Muslims have got to such extreme that they themselves innovated and introduced this new law.

Therefore one wonders, why this extreme punishment is necessary today when it was not necessary during the 23 years when Quran was revealing and holy prophet was himself present there?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I already answered it in post 41 of this thread.

Business is not a personal matter, but linked to the commercial activities of whole community.

While "Eating" & "Drinking" is totally "Personal Matter" and also Basic Human Right to eat and drink whenever one feels need for it.

That is why even during the closed days/holidays, whole markets are close, except the Bakeries and Restaurants who even to remain open on holidays.

No Religion and No Majority has the right to usurp the Basic Human Rights of minorities.

The law isn't stopping anyone from eating or drinking but just in public. It's an Islamic republic, it has to cater for the wishes of 99% of the population.

 

[Alam_dar]

The law isn't stopping anyone from eating or drinking but just in public. It's an Islamic republic, it has to cater for the wishes of 99% of the population.

This law is indeed stopping the people to eat when they are hungry and stopping them to drink when they are thirsty.

This law is practically compelling them to FAST too (in cases staying hungry and thirsty for many hours) till the time they don't get any shelter or return back home.

The wishes of 99.99% population could not deprive the rest of 0.01% minority of their "Basic Human Rights" and eating and drinking when one is hungry and thirsty is one of them.

The majority is allowed to have laws which are "Public", but majority could neither snatch away the personal laws, nor the basic human rights.


Moreover, I asked several questions above like why Muslims introducing this Biddah when Allah didn't reveal it in Quran and the holy Prophet never asked the Non-Muslims for this and he never punished them for it? Why none of the Muslim is giving answer to this very basic question?

(I asked above other questions too, but still no reply).

 

[KingKhanWC]

This law is indeed stopping the people to eat when they are hungry and stopping them to drink when they are thirsty.

This law is practically compelling them to FAST too (in cases staying hungry and thirsty for many hours) till the time they don't get any shelter or return back home.

The wishes of 99.99% population could not deprive the rest of 0.01% minority of their "Basic Human Rights" and eating and drinking when one is hungry and thirsty is one of them.

The majority is allowed to have laws which are "Public", but majority could neither snatch away the personal laws, nor the basic human rights.


Moreover, I asked several questions above like why Muslims introducing this Biddah when Allah didn't reveal it in Quran and the holy Prophet never asked the Non-Muslims for this and he never punished them for it? Why none of the Muslim is giving answer to this very basic question?

(I asked above other questions too, but still no reply).

It's not stopping anyone from eating or drinking. They can eat at home or in privat? It's a human right to walk around naked isnt it? It's a human right to take Class A drugs or sell your body for a few hundred rupees? Yet these are not allowed.

As for your second question, maybe it is wrong to stop people from eating according to Islam but you dont believe it to be true, so why use this line of argument?

So

 

[Alam_dar]

It's not stopping anyone from eating or drinking. They can eat at home or in privat? It's a human right to walk around naked isnt it? It's a human right to take Class A drugs or sell your body for a few hundred rupees? Yet these are not allowed.

Being naked is not "Basic Human Right" as eating and drinking when one is hungry and thirsty.

And drugs also don't come under basic human rights.

In name of these laws, you are practically compelling them the minorities to Fast for couple of hours till they return home, or they find any shelter which is difficult as rest 99% are Muslims and Government of Muslims does not make sure that every where such shelters exist so that minorities could find these shelters every time when ever they are hungry or thirsty.

As for your second question, maybe it is wrong to stop people from eating according to Islam but you dont believe it to be true, so why use this line of argument?

On the same token when you tell the western governments that by banning Hijab in West they are going against their secular values, although your Islamic states reserve this right to compel the Non Muslim women to take Hijab.

In this world, you could not stop people from questioning your behaviour even according to your own code of ethics and laws. You claim you have the right to do Tableegh (preaching), then others also have the right to question and criticize your behaviour even according to your own standards.

You tell us that these severe punishments are introduced while it is "Dil Azari" when people eat/drink in front of rozaydar. By using this excuse you want to take away our rights to eat/drink when we are hungry/thirsty. Then at least we have the right to question you why then you don't punish the people when they are openly eating kababs and chickens in front of poor children who are hungry for days? After all it is also Dil Azari of these poor children.

How is it possible that no one is answering this despite this question has been asked several times by us?

 

[Alam_dar]

Why the Muslims are no more defending the Ramadhan ordinance and answering the questions that I have asked above?