Can Hasan Ali be a better ODI bowler than Waqar Younis?

[Syed1]

Before you bring your swords out let me clarify that I'm myself a big fan of Waqar Younis and consider him to be a Pakistani legend if not a worldwide legend.



That being said this is Waqar's record after 30 innings of ODI bowling:



And this is Hasan's record after the 30 ODI matches that he has played and bowled in:




Waqar with a bowling average of 15 and economy of 3.85 is spectacular and completely unheard of, however, he might have benefited from scores being generally lower in his era and batsman choosing not to be as aggressive as they are now. Hasan Ali has an average of 21 and economy of 5.3. Even though in isolation they are excellent numbers but pale slightly in comparison to Waqar.


Hasan Ali has more wickets in his first 30 matches than Waqar did. He has 1 four wicket haul and 3 five wicket hauls compared to Waqar's two and five respectively. Both bowlers strike rate of 24.2 and 23.8 are either side of 24 and can be assumed to roughly be the same. Which means both bowlers on average pick up a wicket every fourth over they bowl.




One thing to note is that Hasan Ali has already contributed to an international tournament win for Pakistan something that Waqar never did. Waqar at that stage was atleast a yard quicker than Hasan but Hasan has alot more variations up his sleeve. Also Waqar suffered from a career altering injury and his output was severely effected post injury.


In my opinion Hasan Ali by the time he hangs up his boots will be better bowler than Waqar.

 

[babajee]

We also need to bear in mind that Hasan is doing all this in the modern era of tiny boundaries and flat pitches as well so IF he can maintain this level of performance for his whole career then he will definitely surpass Waqar in ODIs.

I don’t think he will come close in tests though.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Hassan is much much better

He has to bowl in the modern era with powerplays,shorter boundaries and unlike Waqar he doesnt chicken out in ICC tournaments.

 

[Syed1]

We also need to bear in mind that Hasan is doing all this in the modern era of tiny boundaries and flat pitches as well so IF he can maintain this level of performance for his whole career then he will definitely surpass Waqar in ODIs.

I don’t think he will come close in tests though.

Hasan needs to keep up the hardwork and not get complacent. I agree he will never be a match for Waqar in the longest format, but can definitely be a better bowler in ODIs.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

At the same stage,Hasan has more wickets.He has already won a world tournament for us.

But only time will tell if he reaches Waqar's level in ODI'S.After 40 odd more matches we can make a comparison.

 

[Extra_Cover]

What we witnessed last year from Hasan was the peak of his bowling to date, perhaps he has got more in the tank to top that peak of his.

However, in no way is Hasan's peak spell close to Waqar's. Waqar at his prime was miles ahead of everyone at that point in world cricket. He was ahead of ambrose, wasim, McGrath, etc in his peak. Waqar's career took a downward turn in the late 90s and early 2000s when he started to age and couldn't keep the magic alive, also note that Waqar had a very bad injury in his career. But since we are comparing the peak of Hasan to Waqar rest assured that he doesn't even come close.

The only similarity between Hasan and Waqar is that they both are attacking bowlers and attack the stumps.

 

[Syed1]

Hassan is much much better

He has to bowl in the modern era with powerplays,shorter boundaries and unlike Waqar he doesnt chicken out in ICC tournaments.

Wrong on every level.


Waqar never chickened out on anything. He was injured in 92, played in 96, did not make the squad in 99 (due to politics) and played in 2003. Where is the chickened out part?


Hasan at this stage is not better than Waqar, but he could be if he keeps improving.

 

[Red Devil]

Nah, Waqar at his peak was a different beast altogether.

 

[Syed1]

What we witnessed last year from Hasan was the peak of his bowling to date, perhaps he has got more in the tank to top that peak of his.

However, in no way is Hasan's peak spell close to Waqar's. Waqar at his prime was miles ahead of everyone at that point in world cricket. He was ahead of ambrose, wasim, McGrath, etc in his peak. Waqar's career took a downward turn in the late 90s and early 2000s when he started to age and couldn't keep the magic alive, also note that Waqar had a very bad injury in his career. But since we are comparing the peak of Hasan to Waqar rest assured that he doesn't even come close.

The only similarity between Hasan and Waqar is that they both are attacking bowlers and attack the stumps.

How can it be Hasan's peak when he was only a year or so in his international career and is still only 24 years young. Hasan's peak is yet to come. Also a person becomes a legend due to their output for a LONG period of time. Aj kay bachay might have better records than Wasim or Sachin in a series, or in a year or even in two-three year period, but to do it for two decades. That's what makes you a legend.


Waqar's career record is over an illustrious career, if Hasan Ali manages to perform at this level for as long as Waqar did he will be a better bowler than Waqar.

 

[Syed1]

Nah, Waqar at his peak was a different beast altogether.

The comparison is not just peak but over the entire length of the career.


If we are comparing just peaks Adam Voges is a better batsman than everyone bar Don Bradman

 

[Buffet]

Yes, He can be a better ODI bowler.

 

[Slog]

Hasan Ali isn't economical that's the problem some of the times and his economy rate isn't great even for this era imp.

Though tbh Waqar was also considered to be expensive and to leak runs when not having a good day with wickets so I'm kinda shocked that his overall economy rate is 3.8 which is pretty good even by the standards of his era. I thought it would be 4.5 or so

 

[Syed1]

Hasan Ali isn't economical that's the problem some of the times and his economy rate isn't great even for this era imp.

Though tbh Waqar was also considered to be expensive and to leak runs when not having a good day with wickets so I'm kinda shocked that his overall economy rate is 3.8 which is pretty good even by the standards of his era. I thought it would be 4.5 or so

His economy rate was 3.8 after his first 30 matches only, his overall economy was 4.7


Its in the OP

 

[The Googly]

Lol. Please.

Hassan Ali is a very good bowler and developing into a genuine world class bowler hopefully.

Waqar is one of thes all time greats and is on a different planet.

Level 1: All time Great Bowlers : Wasim, Waqar, Imran, The Windies bowlers, Lillee, Donald, McGrath etc etc....won't name all.

Level 2: Very Good World Class Bowlers....Pollock, Broad, Kapil Dev etc.....

All very good bowlers......but a level below he greats. Hassan is fighting for membership of Level 2.

 

[The Googly]

Level 1: All time Great Bowlers : Wasim, Waqar, Imran, The Windies bowlers, Lillee, Donald, McGrath etc etc....won't name all.

Level 2: Very Good World Class Bowlers....Pollock, Amir, Broad, Kapil Dev etc.....

Level 3: International quality but not good enough for level 2: Examples are Srinath, Gus Fraser, Junaid Khan etc

Level 4 : Very poor international bowlers : Examples would be : Balaji, Agarkar, Rubel, Ehsan Adil, Tanveer Ahmed

Hassan is in level 3 fighting for membership of Level 2.

 

[Buffet]

Lol. Please.

Hassan Ali is a very good bowler and developing into a genuine world class bowler hopefully.

Waqar is one of thes all time greats and is on a different planet.

Level 1: All time Great Bowlers : Wasim, Waqar, Imran, The Windies bowlers, Lillee, Donald, McGrath etc etc....won't name all.

Level 2: Very Good World Class Bowlers....Pollock, Broad, Kapil Dev etc.....

All very good bowlers......but a level below he greats. Hassan is fighting for membership of Level 2.

Your list may be fine for Test, but OP is talking specifically about ODI format. Waqar is certainly not in a different planet in ODI. Hasan has shown enough skills to do well.

 

[The Googly]

Your list may be fine for Test, but OP is talking specifically about ODI format. Waqar is certainly not in a different planet in ODI. Hasan has shown enough skills to do well.

I still think the above list is valid for ODIs. Waqar was an amazing bowler in ODI format also.

Please note what I stated about Hassan. I said he has international class and has a good chance of making the level 2 which is a list of true world class players - but not in category of ATG.

I rate Hassan. But a Waqar? No.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Tests will be Hasan's strongest format.

 

[Asch Ali]

Hasan Ali will never be close to Waqas Younis.

Waqar had natural swing, line, length, pace just like Mohammed Amir.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Lets talk when he gets to 300 wickets with sub 25 average. He is on course. Needs a consistent next 5 years.

 

[CricFan2012]

Easily.

If he manages to better Waqars or Wasims record or is close to it than he will be our best ODI bowler of all time.

 

[pratiktc]

Lol, please. Hasan has had a great start to his ODI career, has a wide skill range and seems to have big game temperament. If he were a ride, he'd be a pretty stylish Ford Mustang.

But Waqar was a silver plated freakin' Rolls Royce. And he looked and delivered every inch of it. End of. Just. No. Comparison.

 

[Pak Crescent]

would love to see it, but don't think so. Hasan, although skilled, will not have the chance to transform the art of fast bowling as Waqar did. He may not even get to play as many ODI's to get an apples to apples comparison with T20 leagues.

 

[Syed1]

Lol, please. Hasan has had a great start to his ODI career, has a wide skill range and seems to have big game temperament. If he were a ride, he'd be a pretty stylish Ford Mustang.

But Waqar was a silver plated freakin' Rolls Royce. And he looked and delivered every inch of it. End of. Just. No. Comparison.

I feel like nostalgia and the perception of the "good ol' days" might be influencing your judgement. Waqar Younis was good, great infact but he was only human and there is nothing to suggest that Hasan cannot be better than him. Please keep in mind that I am comparing their first 30 ODIs only (since Hasan has only played 30 ODIs to date). In this tiny time frame Hasan is matching Waqar pound for pound, also keep in mind Waqar suffered a career altering injury and he was never the same after it. God forbid I hope never Hasan suffers such an injury in which case he MIGHT end up as a better bowler than Waqar once he is done with his career.

 

[amax]

Brian Lara on Waqar

"He bowled Logie first ball and I went in at 137-3 facing a hat-trick. The crowd were screeching 'Waqar, Waqar, Waqar', and as I took guard I looked round to see where the wicket keeper Salim Yousuf was standing. He seemed a long, long way back. Somehow I managed to survive the first ball. Then the second. Until that moment I had never faced a bowler who could bowl as fast as this and I had batted against all the West Indian fast bowlers and England's Devon Malcolm. None of them approached Waqar in speed and hostility. I made only 11. In seven balls he took 3 wickets for 6 runs, finishing with 5-52."

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Wrong on every level.


Waqar never chickened out on anything. He was injured in 92, played in 96, did not make the squad in 99 (due to politics) and played in 2003. Where is the chickened out part?


Hasan at this stage is not better than Waqar, but he could be if he keeps improving.

Waqar never performed when it mattered

He was terrible in most WC games.

Nobody can forget how Jadeja thrashed him in WC QF

 

[Hasan123]

Can't say yet. Need to see how Hassan progress over the next couple of years.

 

[Syed1]

Brian Lara on Waqar

"He bowled Logie first ball and I went in at 137-3 facing a hat-trick. The crowd were screeching 'Waqar, Waqar, Waqar', and as I took guard I looked round to see where the wicket keeper Salim Yousuf was standing. He seemed a long, long way back. Somehow I managed to survive the first ball. Then the second. Until that moment I had never faced a bowler who could bowl as fast as this and I had batted against all the West Indian fast bowlers and England's Devon Malcolm. None of them approached Waqar in speed and hostility. I made only 11. In seven balls he took 3 wickets for 6 runs, finishing with 5-52."

Pre-injury Waqar was the greatest bowler Pakistan ever produced. Post-injury he was a shadow of himself. Still he ended up being a great. Imagine if injury hadn't happened.


However, when we analyze his career we analyze it on the basis of what he achieved in terms of numbers and not in terms of opinions.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Hassan has already performed in a big tournament which Waqar never managed. If he can play 10 years of cricket and retire with an average of 25-26 and at least one good World Cup then he would have surpassed Waqar in my opinion.

 

[Slog]

His economy rate was 3.8 after his first 30 matches only, his overall economy was 4.7

Its in the OP

Haha my bad

On phone so missed it I guess :/

 

[The_Odd_One]

Brian Lara on Waqar

"He bowled Logie first ball and I went in at 137-3 facing a hat-trick. The crowd were screeching 'Waqar, Waqar, Waqar', and as I took guard I looked round to see where the wicket keeper Salim Yousuf was standing. He seemed a long, long way back. Somehow I managed to survive the first ball. Then the second. Until that moment I had never faced a bowler who could bowl as fast as this and I had batted against all the West Indian fast bowlers and England's Devon Malcolm. None of them approached Waqar in speed and hostility. I made only 11. In seven balls he took 3 wickets for 6 runs, finishing with 5-52."

Same Lara scored 150+ in an ODI chasing 280+ against the same Waqar.

 

[Syed1]

Same Lara scored 150+ in an ODI chasing 280+ against the same Waqar.

Was it the match in which the Windies chased and won by 9 wickets?

 

[asadee]

He needs to bowl the yorkers more consistently to do that

 

[Pete Rose]

Remains to be seen.
Greatness is defined by many things:
1 - aggregate figures
2 - performance against the tougher teams
3 - performance in tournaments
4 - performance in tournament finals
5 - quality of opposition basis era of play
6 - pitches/conditions
7 - their legacy (in waqars case it was reverse swing at extreme pace)

I would say that Hasan is very early in his career, but signs are encouraging on some of the above. while the rest is to be seen once he has played a decade.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Was it the match in which the Windies chased and won by 9 wickets?

Yeah. Basit played one of the greatest ODI innings in that match.