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Can Hasan Ali maintain his #1 spot in the ODI bowlers' rankings?

Mueez

Mueez

ODI Debutant
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Well guys my question is the title, so do you think he can...
 
No.He's no.1 only in paper.Best is starc.Hasan ali is a trundler compared to starc.
In pakistan itself ,Amir is a better bowler than him.

This guy is like aaqib javed.
 
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If he keeps the hard work and relentlessness up I don't see why not.
 
Depends on his motivation and desire. He has already proved that he has got the skills to be the best.
 
Reaching top means he has the capability. Remaining there needs other qualities than bowling skills only - desire, discipline, motivation, hard work, luck ...

Not many top class pacers around & he has lots of matches to come when he is in pick. 6 more ODI, may be few more in SAF, few more after NZ tour - I think, he'll remain No. 1 for few months for sure.
 
Stallion__ said:
Depends on his motivation and desire. He has already proved that he has got the skills to be the best.
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I must agree with this although I think this also applies on Mohammad Amir, he has proved many times that he is a class bowler, but he just misses sometimes the motivation
 
Yes he will, he is a complete package! Not having too much competition will help him too maintaining no 1 position.

If he gets close to 800 ranking points, no one will come near..
 
Yes he can....
If SA series in NOV/DEC goes through then it will be great.. Also NZ series in Jan... So its ideal for him to make a big lead at the top.
 
Being number 1 isnt easy these days for a Pakistani bowler because Pakistan plays less matches compared to other teams.
 
Madplayer said:
Being number 1 isnt easy these days for a Pakistani bowler because Pakistan plays less matches compared to other teams.
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Ranking is calculated based on total rating divided by number of ODIs.
 
Probably not as rankings are biased towards England, Aus and India.. .but who cares as long as he keeps Pakistan winning games
 
Dr_Green said:
Probably not as rankings are biased towards England, Aus and India.. .but who cares as long as he keeps Pakistan winning games
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Does ranking calculator adds 50 extra points for players from Eng, Aus and India?
 
While Ali deserves a lot of credit for the last 3 matches in the CT, let's not get carried away the #1 ranking which is mostly based on his performance against weaker teams like WI and SL. He got hammered for 70 runs in the group match against India. Let's see how he fares when he again plays strong teams.
 
All I care for is performances in tournaments and KO games, these rankings are all a load of rubbish for me in limited overs cricket. Bilateral cricket is also pointless, the new system is a load of crap as well unless it worked in the same manner as the EPL.
 
Napa said:
While Ali deserves a lot of credit for the last 3 matches in the CT, let's not get carried away the #1 ranking which is mostly based on his performance against weaker teams like WI and SL. He got hammered for 70 runs in the group match against India. Let's see how he fares when he again plays strong teams.
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Still burning from the thrashing Pak gave you in the final :)) why'd you bring up a performance in a group game when he made up for it as the tournament progressed and more importantly hammered India in the final to make up for his performance in his first game ever against India and that too a debut in an ICC tournament . And didn't hassan ali win the player of the tournament you sad/bitter parosi :))
 
I remember some parosis declaring Hasan a harmless trundler after the first match of CT. Understanding pace bowling is just not their cup of tea :wasim
 
Any heavyweight champion will tell you that as hard as it was getting to the top, it's even harder to stay there. You have contenders just as hungry as you were looking to use you as a stepping stone. Hasan hopefully is here to stay.
 
shaz619 said:
Still burning from the thrashing Pak gave you in the final :)) why'd you bring up a performance in a group game when he made up for it as the tournament progressed and more importantly hammered India in the final to make up for his performance in his first game ever against India and that too a debut in an ICC tournament . And didn't hassan ali win the player of the tournament you sad/bitter parosi :))
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Yaar aesi nahi kehte! #NOISSUELELOTISSUE
 
Napa said:
While Ali deserves a lot of credit for the last 3 matches in the CT, let's not get carried away the #1 ranking which is mostly based on his performance against weaker teams like WI and SL. He got hammered for 70 runs in the group match against India. Let's see how he fares when he again plays strong teams.
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Lets just make up stats now shall we!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-are-against-the-top-4-teams-(AUS-ENG-IND-SA)

This is after the CT, he had taken 9 more wickets in 3 games against Sri Lanka, then got his #1 ranking, which means still more than half of his wickets are against good teams.Plus, you can only perform against who you play.
 
aloo paratha said:
Lets just make up stats now shall we!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-are-against-the-top-4-teams-(AUS-ENG-IND-SA)

This is after the CT, he had taken 9 more wickets in 3 games against Sri Lanka, then got his #1 ranking, which means still more than half of his wickets are against good teams.Plus, you can only perform against who you play.
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Other than the CT, he has played series against WI, SL, Eng and Aus. His economy rates against Eng and Aus are 6.12 and 6.84 per over which translate to scores of 306 and 342 for a 50 overs innings.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...s=2;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

Early signs are good for Ali, especially his CT performance in the final 3 games, but by no means has he as yet proven his case against the top teams. I would say his performance in the CT final was set up by Fakhar's run a ball century and Amir's devastating first spell.
 
He got a 5’fer against Aus ( Smith, Warner, Maxwell ), 4’fer against Eng ( Stokes, Root, Woakes), 5’fer against Sri Lanka ( can’t remember their names ), and a 5’fer against WI ( can’t remember their names). These were performances in his first ODI series facing these teams apart from WI.
 
Napa said:
Other than the CT, he has played series against WI, SL, Eng and Aus. His economy rates against Eng and Aus are 6.12 and 6.84 per over which translate to scores of 306 and 342 for a 50 overs innings.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...s=2;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

Early signs are good for Ali, especially his CT performance in the final 3 games, but by no means has he as yet proven his case against the top teams. I would say his performance in the CT final was set up by Fakhar's run a ball century and Amir's devastating first spell.
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Everybody knows Australia and England have some of the flattest tracks in ODIs, every bowler is bound to be expensive, even their own bowlers are usually going at close to or over 6 an over. These were his 1st (debut series as well) and 2nd series overseas and he still did pretty well.

Your first lie was caught so now you're retreating to nitpicking other stats. Just accept that he is the best ODI bowler in the world at this moment, because you're just making yourself look like an idiot.
 
aloo paratha said:
Everybody knows Australia and England have some of the flattest tracks in ODIs, every bowler is bound to be expensive, even their own bowlers are usually going at close to or over 6 an over. These were his 1st (debut series as well) and 2nd series overseas and he still did pretty well.

Your first lie was caught so now you're retreating to nitpicking other stats. Just accept that he is the best ODI bowler in the world at this moment, because you're just making yourself look like an idiot.
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Dude, given that I never lie in real life, I am certainly not going to lower myself to lying on an Internet forum.

Follow the link I had provided and check the differences in Ali's economy rates in the Aus/Eng series on one hand and the WI/SL series on the other. Both wickets taken and economy rates are important in LOI bowling.
 
shaz619 said:
Still burning from the thrashing Pak gave you in the final :)) why'd you bring up a performance in a group game when he made up for it as the tournament progressed and more importantly hammered India in the final to make up for his performance in his first game ever against India and that too a debut in an ICC tournament . And didn't hassan ali win the player of the tournament you sad/bitter parosi :))
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Chock slam, Stunner, Batista bomb, Rock bottom etc etc all rolled into one :))
 
Napa said:
Dude, given that I never lie in real life, I am certainly not going to lower myself to lying on an Internet forum.

Follow the link I had provided and check the differences in Ali's economy rates in the Aus/Eng series on one hand and the WI/SL series on the other. Both wickets taken and economy rates are important in LOI bowling.
Click to expand...

Considering that Australia and England have far better batting lineups than West Indies and Sri Lanka, it's hardly surprising. He's still taken wickets consistently against every team he has faced.
 
Napa said:
Dude, given that I never lie in real life, I am certainly not going to lower myself to lying on an Internet forum.

Follow the link I had provided and check the differences in Ali's economy rates in the Aus/Eng series on one hand and the WI/SL series on the other. Both wickets taken and economy rates are important in LOI bowling.
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Who do you think is the worlds best ODI bowler? And show me their economy differences, and their economies in Aus and England.

You did say most if his wickets have come against weak opposition, when it's really the other way around, is that not lying??
 
Madplayer said:
More matches doesnt mean opportunity to get higher total ratings? Or i have it all wrong?
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More matches and good performance will get you higher points. Then total point is divided by number of matches to get the rating. If two players do equally well then one playing 50 ODIs is not going to have higher rating/ranking when compared to another player with 30 ODIs in a given period.

Final ranking/ratings are normalized for number of matches. Number of matches are not a factor.
 
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Napa said:
check the differences in Ali's economy rates in the Aus/Eng series on one hand and the WI/SL series on the other. Both wickets taken and economy rates are important in LOI bowling.
Click to expand...

On average, a bowler will do better against weaker opposition. Nothing surprising about it.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Considering that <b>Australia and England have far better batting lineups than West Indies and Sri Lanka</b>, it's hardly surprising. He's still taken wickets consistently against every team he has faced.
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Yes, that was my point. I am not saying he isn't doing very well, all I said was he has had a good start and needs to keep doing well against stronger batting.

Unlike Amir, he is quite well built, so I think he will be able to sustain his bowling and not miss games due to injury. A bit on the short side for a pacer, if his height is really 5' 9". Good luck to him.
 
Napa said:
While Ali deserves a lot of credit for the last 3 matches in the CT, let's not get carried away the #1 ranking <b>which is mostly based on his performance against weaker teams like WI and SL</b>. He got hammered for 70 runs in the group match against India. Let's see how he fares when he again plays strong teams.
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aloo paratha said:
Who do you think is the worlds best ODI bowler? And show me their economy differences, and their economies in Aus and England.

You did say <b>most if his wickets have come against weak opposition</b>, when it's really the other way around, is that not lying??
Click to expand...

You should read more carefully before you accuse someone of lying.

Also, this is an internet forum and not testimony under oath, one can use loose words or phrases. Lying on the other hand is deliberate.
 
Napa said:
You should read more carefully before you accuse someone of lying.

Also, this is an internet forum and not testimony under oath, one can use loose words or phrases. Lying on the other hand is deliberate.
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Lol whatever I'm not going to argue about it because you'll never understand, but do you think Hasan Ali is the #1 bowler in the world or just a minnow basher?
 
aloo paratha said:
Lol whatever I'm not going to argue about it because you'll never understand, but do you think Hasan Ali is the #1 bowler in the world or just a minnow basher?
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He is very good... but probably not #1, Amir may be even better in ODIs.

Let me put it this way. Before the CT final, if I was given the option of excluding one Pakistani bowler from him team I would have chosen Amir over Ali.

Now one should also respect rankings, so Ali has a legitimate claim to the #1 spot.
 
Napa said:
He is very good... but probably not #1, Amir may be even better in ODIs.

Let me put it this way. Before the CT final, if I was given the option of excluding one Pakistani bowler from him team I would have chosen Amir over Ali.

Now one should also respect rankings, so Ali has a legitimate claim to the #1 spot.
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Really??? Amir is just hype for the most part, will perform from time to time. The obvious person to exclude out of the 3 would be Junaid though.
 
aloo paratha said:
Really??? Amir is just hype for the most part, will perform from time to time. The obvious person to exclude out of the 3 would be Junaid though.
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As an Indian, I have to give Amir top billing. He brings his best game against us, and Kohli also agrees :)

While both took 3 wickets in the CT final, Amir got the top 3 Indian batsmen while Ali most cleaned up the tail.
 
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Buffet said:
More matches and good performance will get you higher points. Then total point is divided by number of matches to get the rating. If two players do equally well then one playing 50 ODIs is not going to have higher rating/ranking when compared to another player with 30 ODIs in a given period.

Final ranking/ratings are normalized for number of matches. Number of matches are not a factor.
Click to expand...

But more matches to one player also means that he has more opportunities to improve upon his record.

If player X scores 5 50s in 10 matches and player Y also scores 5 50s in 10 matches , they will be equal. But if X doesnt play any more matches while Y plays 5 more matches and scores a couple of 100s in them, he would obviously have the higher ratings. Even if you divide his total ratings by the number of ODIs played, he would come out on top of X . This is because he was given more opportunities to improve upon his record while the other batsman did not get this opportunity.
 
Madplayer said:
But more matches to one player also means that he has more opportunities to improve upon his record.

If player X scores 5 50s in 10 matches and player Y also scores 5 50s in 10 matches , they will be equal. But if X doesnt play any more matches while Y plays 5 more matches and scores a couple of 100s in them, he would obviously have the higher ratings. Even if you divide his total ratings by the number of ODIs played, he would come out on top of X . This is because he was given more opportunities to improve upon his record while the other batsman did not get this opportunity.
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If both scored 5 50s then that's the baseline level for both players and rating is based on that. Now if second player plays more matches, he has potential to go up , but can also to go down.

It's very hard to maintain high standards in 20 games. If you hit 5 50s in 5 games then you have to keep hitting 50s in their games to just maintain your points.

Making 20 50s is a lot harder than making 5 50s. Playing more is not going to make it easier to climb ranking. This argument is only true to players from Kenya etc who don't play enough at top level.
 
Some of the Indian posters are so bitter.

It's not always just about stats (even there his stats are amazing) it's the fact you watch how he's bowling and how's getting the wickets.

You get a feel of the game and you can watch and say he's bowling not just to contain but get wickets by setting up the batsman.

If he carries on with this form why not ?? The only aspect that may affect him is burnout but hopefully the management don't overburden him in all formats.
 
Great start from the young bowler but it is early days yet. Talented, but not a genius. Amir is more gifted and LR better bet. Hassan is a clever operator.
 
90MPH said:
Some of the Indian posters are so bitter.

It's not always just about stats (even there his stats are amazing) it's the fact you watch how he's bowling and how's getting the wickets.

You get a feel of the game and you can watch and say he's bowling not just to contain but get wickets by setting up the batsman.

If he carries on with this form why not ?? The only aspect that may affect him is burnout but hopefully the management don't overburden him in all formats.
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not bitter about hassan ali
he can surely maintain it but it will be hard considering competition and
If you play hassan ali in all three formats besides t20 leagues then he tends to injure himself like starc
so he should play only LOIs
 
Boult must have narrowed down some gap between Hasan and himself with his today's performance.
 
another drop catch said:
not bitter about hassan ali
he can surely maintain it but it will be hard considering competition and
If you play hassan ali in all three formats besides t20 leagues then he tends to injure himself like starc
so he should play only LOIs
Click to expand...

Well one or two in this thread are.

Yes I agree he needs to be managed accordingly. They should him rest for the 20/20s ideally.
 
Buffet said:
If both scored 5 50s then that's the baseline level for both players and rating is based on that. Now if second player plays more matches, he has potential to go up , but can also to go down.

It's very hard to maintain high standards in 20 games. If you hit 5 50s in 5 games then you have to keep hitting 50s in their games to just maintain your points.

Making 20 50s is a lot harder than making 5 50s. Playing more is not going to make it easier to climb ranking. This argument is only true to players from Kenya etc who don't play enough at top level.
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Either i am not able to understand or you are simply undermining cricketing factors like good form/ flat pitches/ inept bowlers etc. These days good batsmen make full use of their form and score more and more runs with every opportunity they get.

If guys like ABD or Kohli play 15 matches and a guy like williamson plays just 10 matches, williamson would stand very little chance to beat those guys in earning higher rating points because its a guarantee that ABD or Kohli would score heavily in the extra opportunities they get.
 
austerlitz said:
No.He's no.1 only in paper.Best is starc.Hasan ali is a trundler compared to starc.
In pakistan itself ,Amir is a better bowler than him.

This guy is like aaqib javed.
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LOL. In ur dreams mate. He was man of the series in champions trophy not Mitchell starc. If he is a trundler then jasprit bumrah is a club level bowler.
 
austerlitz said:
No.He's no.1 only in paper.Best is starc.Hasan ali is a trundler compared to starc.
In pakistan itself ,Amir is a better bowler than him.

This guy is like aaqib javed.
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Lol @ trundler.

He's bowling around 85/87MPH consistently.

Aqib was only an 80MPH bowler but swung the ball to make him effective.
 
htariq25 said:
LOL. In ur dreams mate. He was man of the series in champions trophy not Mitchell starc. If he is a trundler then jasprit bumrah is a club level bowler.
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Starc when fit is the best bowler in the world,rankings mean little.Hasan ali is a little kid in front of starc who's 160 kph material.He's having a good patch,will be smashed soon enough .
 
Madplayer said:
Either i am not able to understand or you are simply undermining cricketing factors like good form/ flat pitches/ inept bowlers etc. These days good batsmen make full use of their form and score more and more runs with every opportunity they get.

If guys like ABD or Kohli play 15 matches and a guy like williamson plays just 10 matches, williamson would stand very little chance to beat those guys in earning higher rating points because its a guarantee that ABD or Kohli would score heavily in the extra opportunities they get.
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Flip it, if Kohli/AB play 10 ODIs and Kane plays 15, Kane won't stand a chance. SA has historically played less tests that Eng, Aus and Even India. Yet, SA maintained test rank 1 for very long time. Simple reason was test ranking was normalized for number of test. Focus on part it's being normalized. Same concept applies to individual ranking.
 
austerlitz said:
Starc when fit is the best bowler in the world,rankings mean little.Hasan ali is a little kid in front of starc who's 160 kph material.He's having a good patch,will be smashed soon enough .
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Bold Parts : Thank You for making my day :)) :)) - By any chance are you from across the border ??
 
Hasan Ali probably will stay there for a while. The only competition he has in terms of ODI bowlers is Trent Boult (Who bowled brilliantly yesterday), Mitchell Starc (Who hardly plays) and Rabada.Hasan has been brilliant and if he stays fit, he probably will stay there for a long time.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
Bold Parts : Thank You for making my day :)) :)) - By any chance are you from across the border ??
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Yes i am from India.I'm honest that i think amir is better than hasan ali.Starc is better.Boult is better.Rabada is better.If you go by ratings even shakib al hasan was the best bowler in the world for a time.You people rate an ODI bowler too much.Just like i don't think bumrah is all that .Utility odi bowler,good for death bowling -thats it.No need to go gaga.I never felt hasan ali had the capability to run through a quality opposition top order like amir or starc can.Simple as that.A good utility bowler,sure.Best bowler in the world -nope.
 
austerlitz said:
Yes i am from India.I'm honest that i think amir is better than hasan ali.Starc is better.Boult is better.Rabada is better.If you go by ratings even shakib al hasan was the best bowler in the world for a time.You people rate an ODI bowler too much.Just like i don't think bumrah is all that .Utility odi bowler,good for death bowling -thats it.No need to go gaga.I never felt hasan ali had the capability to run through a quality opposition top order like amir or starc can.Simple as that.A good utility bowler,sure.Best bowler in the world -nope.
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Everything you typed was subjective without any backing of numericals or any shread of data whatsoever. How would you expect a half informed cricket (nevermind absolute geeks like us) to take your claims seriously ? Please provide evidence of your opinion rather than resorting to 'I believe X athelete is better than Y because I say so.......'
 
giri26 said:
Hasan Ali probably will stay there for a while. The only competition he has in terms of ODI bowlers is Trent Boult (Who bowled brilliantly yesterday), Mitchell Starc (Who hardly plays) and Rabada.Hasan has been brilliant and if he stays fit, he probably will stay there for a long time.
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Hmm Boult is definitely great competition. Good operator who knows his game & can also change to plan B when needed.

Starc is 27 & has played about 70 ODI. That's plenty to get a form guide on, he's performed in WC in the biggest games. He's a genuine contender for best ODI bowler imo. He gets rested, unlike Pakistan bowlers, so may not play as often but he'll be around and performing in big games in 2 years.

By then I expect Pakistan management to have bowled Amir & Hasan into the ground in all 3 formats + county stints & him to be reduced to a 130k trundler with 5'10 height. I hope to be proven wrong but I cannot think of a single quick Pakistan have managed well in the last decade.

I also expect Rabada to come into the mix.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
Everything you typed was subjective without any backing of numericals or any shread of data whatsoever. How would you expect a half informed cricket (nevermind absolute geeks like us) to take your claims seriously ? Please provide evidence of your opinion rather than resorting to 'I believe X athelete is better than Y because I say so.......'
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I don't expect you to agree to my view.Its an OPINION.thats what a forum is about.Only time will tell who is right.But right now he is probably overhyped too soon.Again my opinion.
 
He showed yesterday why he is the #1 ODI bowler. Stood up when his team needed him.
 
Ah man this lad has regressed and regressed very badly.

Such a talent wasted.
 
Can't think of too many players who have gone downhill so fast.

Stardom can do funny things to some boys.
 
Exactly two years ago he was named Player of the Tournament in the CT 17.

Wonder what happened to him?

Since the Wagah Border celebration, he has gone downhill.

Rohit and Dhawan have shattered his confidence during the Asia Cup 2018.

I hope he comes back to form - he looked like a gun bowler.
 
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The decline wasn't expected, however it is a lot to ask for someone who stands at 5"7 to last in international cricket. His ceiling was never height because of how short he is.

If he was a 145 km/h bowler or bowler of prodigious swing/seam bowling skills (like Bhuvi), he may have had a longer career. Mind you, if he was a speed merchant like Bilawal Bhatti, he would have broken down like him by now as a small figure.

Apart from Malinga at 5"8, I don't know any bowler under 5"9 (i.e. midget bowling height) who made name for himself as an international bowler.
 
Early comments are truly hilarious. It felt like Hasan Ali was playing for India but what do I know I am just a "bitter parosi".:))

:hasan2
 
Such a sad decline. Must be dropped and hopefully some time in domestic can reinvigorate him.
 
He was so likeable at start.I remember his debut series in England where he proved everyone wrong.Then CT truimp really established him and it looked like we finally got a good middle overs fast bowler.But seeing him over last year has been painful.Hope he recovers fast
 
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