Champions Trophy 2017 mattered. Pakistan barely qualified at the very last second for that tournament. None of the pundits rated the Pakistani team in that tournament. India demolished Pakistan in the first game in very brutal circumstances and every ex player, analyst, media person, fan demolished the Pakistani team in classic Mamoon style calling it the most mediocre, garbage rubbish cricketers the world had ever seen who did not deserve to share the big stage amongst mens. Guess what, the team bounced back to win all the remaining games against South Africa, Sri Lanka, England and India i.e. the three top 3 teams in the ranking. But ofcourse you in classic Mamoon style will just dismiss that as a fluke, Pakistan got lucky with the warm dry conditions in the UK which suited it blah blah, it is unlikely to happen again
If you read my post again, I have already mentioned the Champions Trophy as the only occasion in the past decade or so where Pakistan rose to the occasion and performed when it mattered.
Pakistan beat a very great Australian team in 2002 thanks to Shoaib's brilliance, you know very well how invincible that Australian team was perceived to have been back then
Yes it was a brilliant performance and one of the greatest ODI series victories in Pakistan history. However, what does that have to do with the current lot of players?
So? India won one extra world cup only in 2011 and that also at home in their own conditions. South Africa, New Zealand have never won a single WC yet, that means these teams should be discarded in the dustbin for not turning up when it really matters
Pakistan will not come close to winning the World Cup if they host one. They are simply not good enough. No point in downplaying India’s World Cup win because they co-hosted it with Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
South Africa and New Zealand have not turned up in World Cups yet but they are very consistent teams in bilateral cricket. On the other hand, there are certain legendary teams like Pakistan that neither turn up in World Cups nor are they consistent in bilateral cricket. They only survive on myths, fairytales, exaggerations and cliches by desperate fans.
This is a mental block the team puts on itself at that stage, even the past non mediocre legendary Pakistani teams lost to much weaker Indian teams so there is no need to bash the present mediocre Pakistani team for losing to a currently much superior team
Nothing to do with mental block. The result of each Pakistan-India World Cup match can be explained and justified.
Match 1: 1992 World Cup
Pakistan had the upper hand over India under Imran. This was the first ever World Cup match between the two countries and thus there was no mental block in any way. Pakistan was poor in that World Cup and survived the group stage because the match vs England was washed out after Pakistan collapsed for 74 all out.
Pakistan lost to South Africa, West Indies and India and should have lost to England as well. They only gained form at the back end of the tournament when they beat Australia and New Zealand in the group stage and then New Zealand and England in the knockouts.
Hence, it had nothing to do with any mental block. Just a Pakistan team in poor form that lost to a better side on the day. India were poor throughout the World Cup but they were better than Pakistan on the day. You can thank Imran Khan for giving Pakistan the gift of India’s World Cup streak and starting this losing tradition. Had he won Pakistan the match, this streak would not exist today and would not be a talking point.
Match 2: 1996 World Cup
Both sides were fairly evenly matched. The result swung in India’s favor mainly because Pakistan Wasim mysteriously got “injured” before the match and Aamer Sohail lost the plot against Prasad. On another day, it could have gone Pakistan’s way because the teams were evenly matched. Again, nothing to do with a mental block.
Match 3: 1999 World Cup
Pakistan was the better side at this point, but lost to South Africa and Bangladesh in this World Cup as well. Prasad had the best ODI match of his career and an inferior team beat the superior one. The World Cup streak was not a factor at this point as its was only 2-0, and Pakistan vs India was a regular feature in international cricket and Pakistan was winning most games in Sharjah Cups, so there wasn’t any case of mental block.
2003 World Cup:
India was the better side. They had talented youth while Pakistan was playing expired 90’s players led by a terrible captain.
2011 World Cup:
India was the superior team and won.
2015:
India was by far the superior team and won.
2019:
India was by far the superior team and won.
This whole mental block etc. is baloney. One day, the streak will end because Pakistan will catch India on bad day like they caught them in the Champions Trophy final.
This mental block business is just a coping mechanism by our fans to shy away from the fact that India is simply a vastly superior team.
Maybe if the people of Pakistan start burning effigies of the players, coaches for losing to the likes of Australia, England, maybe the Pakistani players will put themselves under pressure to really play out of their skins against these teams as if their lives depend on it but unfortunately our players turn up to the pitch with a very defeated attitude where the match is lost from the very beginning. I maintain that our players need a danda, some serious pressure from the media, public, ex players to spring them into some action
Over my 9 years on PP, I have come across a lot of sad coping mechanisms. This however is right up there. So are you suggesting that if we start burning effigies and the players put themselves under pressure, they will bridge the skill, talent and mentality gap and will suddenly start thrashing Australia and England? Seriously?
So what if India came without Kohli? It still was a pretty strong Indian side with Sharma, Dhawan, Dhoni, Jadeja, Bhumra, Bhuwenshwar Kumar, Dhoni alone had more ODI's than the Pakistani team combined.
Also whats the point of Pakistani players knowing the conditions so well when they idiotically went into that tournament without proper spinners except for Shadab, you can thank Mickey Arthur for that. India in contrast played their best spinners available. The reality is India dissapointed in the CT 2017 Final and did what they were suppossed to do in the Asia Cup
Prior to the Asia Cup reality check, the delusion and arrogance among Pakistani fans and players was sky high. After the Champions Trophy, we felt invincible and thought we were the best ODI team in the world.
It was also said that the Champions Trophy final would prove to be a turning point in the Pakistan-India rivalry because the new generation of Pakistani players like Sarfraz, Fakhar, Babar, Shadab, Imad, Hassan, Imam, Faheem etc. will not be fazed against India because they do not carry any scars unlike the previous generation.
Sarfraz claimed that India is afraid of Pakistan that is why they don’t play bilateral cricket and Hassan stated that he would try to take all 10 wickets against India in an ODI match.
The Asia Cup was the perfect occasion for Pakistan to rise to the occasion and perform, and thus prove that they have turned the tables on India and the Champions Trophy was not a fluke. However, the way we got crushed in both games proved that the gulf between the two sides was still astronomical.
Also, no point in using the coping mechanism of blaming Mickey’s selections. The reality is that there is no possible combination and there was no possible combination in 2018 that would help Pakistan beat India over a course of multiple games. The talent, skill and mentality level between the two sides is far too big.
That Pakistan team was badly exposed in Jan 2018 when they got blanked 5-0 in New Zealand, but our fans dismissed that capitulation and brushed it aside as “poor preparation”. However, the reality check in the Asia Cup opened their eyes and the likes of Mickey and Sarfraz never recovered after that humbling.
The pitches in the 5 match ODI series against England were completely different to the pitches we saw in the WC, the team beat the top ranked side of England, New Zealand, South Africa and would have qualified had it not been for a washed out game against Sri Lanka, even the analysts felt it was unfair and a travesty that the NZ team which lost its last 3 games on the trott was going through the semi's whereas a Pakistani team which won its last 4 games on the trott where each game was a do or die moment for them was not going through the semi's and felt that based on their form they deserved to have gone through and maybe in the future the ICC could look to change the rules where net run rate alone would not decide which team goes through if they are tied but the group stage result between the two tied teams in the WC.
The pitches in the World Cup were different and they actually favored Pakistan except the first match vs West Indies. The match vs New Zealand was played on a slow and sluggish wicket where a hit the deck bowler like Lockie Ferguson was ineffective and New Zealand erred by picking one spinner. On a faster pitch New Zealand would be favorites to beat us.
The only pitch in the World Cup that did not suit Pakistan was the one against West Indies in the World Cup opener. The pitch had genuine bounce and our batsmen were rabbit in headlights. It looked like they had never played or practiced on a bouncy surface before. The players fail to turn up and rise to the occasion, and thus proving once again that when you are mediocre you will not perform when it matters most of the time.
Pakistan cancelled the West Indies result with the upset win over England in the next game, and then it got two matches on good pitches against India and Australia. It was an opportunity for the players to perform when it mattered and win at least one of the two matches to qualify for the semifinals. Surprise surprise, the poster boys of mediocrity failed to perform when it mattered and lost both matches.
Furthermore, if Pakistan could beat Afghanistan because of umpiring blunders, if Afghanistan could push India to the last over, if Pakistan and Sri Lanka could beat England, then Pakistan could also have lost to Sri Lanka.
On one hand, Pakistani fans try to convince you that Pakistan is unpredictable. On the other hand, they also want to convince you that Pakistan was 200% certain to beat Sri Lanka. Besides, the India vs New Zealand match was washed out as well, and if India could lose to them in the semifinals and warmup, they could also have lost to them in the group.
The ICC will not change rules to accommodate Pakistan’s mediocrity. NRR is there for a reason - it reflects how badly you win or lose. Pakistan did not deserve to qualify over New Zealand because of its pathetic, negative NRR. It was not New Zealand’s problem that Pakistani batsmen were surprised with the bounce and crashed for 103 against West Indies.
Maybe in Mamoonland that is not an example of Pakistan not turning up but that Pakistani side had lost all its warm up games, had lost to England in the group stage and Sri Lanka in the group stage and were effectively one game away from elimination at that point. They beat the red hot favorite team South Africa in the SF. Pakistani Cricket at that time was facing extreme isolation, they had no played test cricket for an entire year and this was then followed by the attacks on the Sri Lankan team in Pakistan. In those circumstances what the team did on the big stage in England was incredible.
Pakistan was one of the best T20I teams in the world in the 2007-2010 period. This was the early phase of T20 cricket and the concept of T20 specialists did not exist. Pakistan was ahead of the curve compared to other teams because it already had several players that were tailor-made for T20 cricket.
Afridi, Ajmal and Gul bowling 12/20 overs were immense. Before that you had Tanvir as well who had a lot of novelty factor in the 2007-2008 period where batsmen struggled to pick his action. He also dominated the first IPL edition.
Pakistan had the best bowling attack in the format in this period and that is why it was a very strong side. It is not surprising that in the first 3 editions of the World T20, Pakistan made the final, won the tournament and would have made the final again if it wasn’t for a freakish innings by Hussey.
Pakistan started the WT20 2009 slowly, but it was not an example of turning up when it mattered; it was an example of one of the World Cup hot favorites going all the way.
But ofcourse in MamoonLand, this again was not Pakistan turning up at all because apparently Pakistan was an excellent T-20 side on paper. Then tell me how is a team like India turning up in the ODI 2011 WC, in Australia in 2018, in the 2013 CT when they are an excellent side and better than Pakistan? Do you spin your reasoning to suit your Mamoon Logic?
India did not “turn up” in 2011 and 2018; they justified the hype. Do you not see the difference? The Indian team of 2011 was the best ODI side in the world in Asian conditions. They were expected to win the World Cup and they justified the tag.
In 2018, India was the best Test side in the world and Australia had a very strong attack but they were without their two best batsmen. It was believed that if India bring their A game, they would have a very good chance of winning in Australia. They did bring their A game and thus proved why they are the top ranked side in Test cricket.
The 2013 Champions Trophy however was different and an example of India turning up when it mattered because expectations were low. India had gone through a transitional period and came with a new look team with Rohit and Dhawan opening. They weren’t considered favorites before the tournament but they played really well and haven’t looked back since. That young team continued to mature and evolve into a winning unit.
Its funny how in Mamoon land you defend India's poor billateral record, head to head record against Pakistan because India turned it on when it really mattered in the ODI WC in the 90's and then raise the question what is the point of Pakistan being such a superior side to India in all facets back then when if it was India who won the key contests and not even call India's victories against Pakistan back then a fluke.
Pakistan was the better ODI side in the 90s, and that is why it won most of the matches. However, India won nearly every high profile match which did dampen the superior winning rate of Pakistan.
If bilateral cricket is resumed today and India thrashes Pakistan regularly but ends up losing to us in World Cups, they would still be considered the better side but their superior record will also dampen.
Its even funnier how in Mamoon land you dismiss Pakistan's victory against India in India in 2012-13, Asia Cup 2014, CT 2017 Final as a fluke even though India has had the stronger sides than Pakistan in the last two decades.
The Champions Trophy final was a fluke. No question about it. The same set of Pakistani and Indian players faced off in 5 ODIs over two years and India won 4-1. That would be the result of a bilateral series between the two teams today. India would win 5-0 or 4-1.
The 2012-13 series was the perfect time to play India because they were in transition. Pakistan capitalized in ODIs and England capitalized in Tests in India.
India dropped Tendulkar from the ODI squad right before the Pakistan series and were still opening with Sehwag and Gambhir with a washed up Yuvraj in the middle-order. Rohit was still in the middle-order and going nowhere with his career. Dhawan was not in the side.
Their bowling attack was led by Dinda. B Kumar and Shami made their debuts in that series. That team was heavily dependent on Dhoni and a Kohli who was yet to hit his peak.
India revamped their team after that series and opened with Rohit and Dhawan and they became a top side again. Their transition lasted for a brief period only.
Only weak teams like Pakistan are in perpetual transition because they cannot find a bunch of quality cricketers who can sustain their place in the side.
For example, Pakistan won that series on the back of Jamshed and Junaid, both who were earmarked for grand futures. However, both completely went south soon after that series and became history.
A bilateral series between the two teams at any later point in the 2010 decade would have been a one-sided affair in India’s favor.
The 2014 Asia Cup was again a one-off result. Pakistan vs not a better ODI team than India in 2014 and would not have beaten them in a series.
The absence of Dhoni also played a huge factor in that game especially because Kohli lacked captaincy experience at that point and his captaincy in the death overs against Afridi, Gul and Junaid in the death overs was very ordinary.
You can call these excuses but I don’t need excuses to prove that India was a much better ODI side than Pakistan in 2014.
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Pakistanis fight even when their backs are against the wall and when they have nothing going for them. In life in order to compete you have to be delusional
