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Can we please talk about Younis Khan the T20 batting coach?

ShoaibM

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Long time reader, first time poster so please take it easy.

I am a huge fan of Pakistan cricket but the lack of decision making ability never ceases to surprise. YK was an abysmal T20 bat (mediocre ODI bat). Who on earth thinks the guy who threatened his own coach with a knife can impart batting wisdom on others. I can, perhaps, buy him as a test match batting consultant(maybe even coach) but T20? Come on. Lets put the blame for the recent series defeat where it belongs, Misbah and YK were both terrible T20 players and Waqar has no track record.

We really need to separate the coaching staff for test and limited overs teams. I really like the focus on test match cricket from the Pak establishment. Can we please keep this in mind as fans and judge the team fairly. I am really hoping for good things from the new look Pak test team and as a fan of test match cricket wouldnt want to see that boat being rocked because of a silly T20 defeat.

Personally speaking I dont take T20 cricket too seriously. I view it as an avenue to give young guys a chance to showcase their skills without too much pressure. Unfortunately too many fans are obsessed by IPL these days. I hope as Pakistan team fans we keep some perspective and give the new coaching staff a couple more series to settle into their roles. Which really are to improve the test team's performance.
 
Finally

We have 3 ex players who hold serious coaching positions, but I doubt they would be hired by Afghanistan and Bangladesh!
 
Honestly when i see the manner in which the top order tried to negotiate NZ medium pace and feel flat on the pitch I see nothing but flashbacks of YK hopelessly trying his luck at T20 batting.
 
Broke Babar’s finger with his throwdowns and then couldn’t even prepare the others! Get him out.
 
To be fair to him he's new to the job and it's going to take plenty of time for him to impose his influence on the batsmen.

However a warning - some players are beyond help and it doesn't matter who the batting coach is or how many runs he has scored.
 
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Long time reader, first time poster so please take it easy.

I am a huge fan of Pakistan cricket but the lack of decision making ability never ceases to surprise. YK was an abysmal T20 bat (mediocre ODI bat). Who on earth thinks the guy who threatened his own coach with a knife can impart batting wisdom on others. I can, perhaps, buy him as a test match batting consultant(maybe even coach) but T20? Come on. Lets put the blame for the recent series defeat where it belongs, Misbah and YK were both terrible T20 players and Waqar has no track record.

We really need to separate the coaching staff for test and limited overs teams. I really like the focus on test match cricket from the Pak establishment. Can we please keep this in mind as fans and judge the team fairly. I am really hoping for good things from the new look Pak test team and as a fan of test match cricket wouldnt want to see that boat being rocked because of a silly T20 defeat.

Personally speaking I dont take T20 cricket too seriously. I view it as an avenue to give young guys a chance to showcase their skills without too much pressure. Unfortunately too many fans are obsessed by IPL these days. I hope as Pakistan team fans we keep some perspective and give the new coaching staff a couple more series to settle into their roles. Which really are to improve the test team's performance.

Welcome to the forum and I agree with your assessment. Younis and Misbah were very limited LOI players who while may have something to offer in the Test format, aren't the best to advise and formulate plans in white ball cricket.

I've made my feelings on Waqar's coaching known many times. He hasn't coached a single international outfit other than Pakistan. What has he done to enhance his coaching skills in between his many sackings ?

Either he's in the commentary box or the dugout.
 
I want to tear his stupid notebook
 
i dont think at intnl level a coach is supposed to teach you basics, they are to enhance the talent, do minor tweaks to get more out of the player, highlight minor grey areas, where as here in our setup boys are walking in to learn how basics... yk or anyone else for that matter, not going to be able to change players at intnl level... pee wee leagues then under aged cricket, the grassroots, thats where yk or moyo etc are needed...
 
Younis Khan is one of the greatest test batsman Pakistan has ever produced.

He was an average to below average performer in the shorter formats.
 
i dont think at intnl level a coach is supposed to teach you basics, they are to enhance the talent, do minor tweaks to get more out of the player, highlight minor grey areas, where as here in our setup boys are walking in to learn how basics... yk or anyone else for that matter, not going to be able to change players at intnl level... pee wee leagues then under aged cricket, the grassroots, thats where yk or moyo etc are needed...

Its not so much about technical skills but more about strategy and how to apply the technical skills to different situations. That is a requirement and a coach needs to be able to lead with that, particularly for the younger players. IK played this role for Wasim and Waqar. Inzi played it for some of the current generation of batsmen. Ideally a good coach suited to the formate should be able to get players in the right mindset with the correct strategy.
 
I don't think you understand a purpose of a batting coach.

A batting coach is not there to teach a batter how to play T20 cricket. They are there to help players improve on their fundamental skills and at international level, advise on how to make minor tweaks.

Even for T20 cricket, you need fundamental batting skills. Look at Asif Ali for example. He can hit 6s at will. But he has no batting brain, also he doesn't have some batting fundamentals.

I always would have preferred YK working with U19s as I think he is better off working with youngsters and can teach them the fundamentals I am referring too. Not really sure what your expecting a batting coach to do for a T20 game.
 
Who ever is responsible for making Rizwan open and playing a new comer at number 3 should be fired I don't think that is younis decision to have those tactics

Misbahout
 
Don’t you know how it works with Younis.


If players are bad then it clearly isn’t his fault


If players do well, it’s all because of YK’s wisdom
 
If people can go crazy over Imran Khan winning you a world cup, and then comparing every tom dick and harry as captain and coach to him, why can't the guy who actually captained the team to a world cup t20 win be a batting coach to the t20 team?

It's akin to saying Imran Khan with his B$ about consolidating at the top is a valid strategy for 2015 cricket world cup. The only difference is Younis hasn't been yapping about his T20 world cup victory on every channel for 30 years.
 
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Long time reader, first time poster so please take it easy.

I am a huge fan of Pakistan cricket but the lack of decision making ability never ceases to surprise. YK was an abysmal T20 bat (mediocre ODI bat). Who on earth thinks the guy who threatened his own coach with a knife can impart batting wisdom on others. I can, perhaps, buy him as a test match batting consultant(maybe even coach) but T20? Come on. Lets put the blame for the recent series defeat where it belongs, Misbah and YK were both terrible T20 players and Waqar has no track record.

We really need to separate the coaching staff for test and limited overs teams. I really like the focus on test match cricket from the Pak establishment. Can we please keep this in mind as fans and judge the team fairly. I am really hoping for good things from the new look Pak test team and as a fan of test match cricket wouldnt want to see that boat being rocked because of a silly T20 defeat.

Personally speaking I dont take T20 cricket too seriously. I view it as an avenue to give young guys a chance to showcase their skills without too much pressure. Unfortunately too many fans are obsessed by IPL these days. I hope as Pakistan team fans we keep some perspective and give the new coaching staff a couple more series to settle into their roles. Which really are to improve the test team's performance.

Here is what it is.

From the intellect of many in PCB, the BIGGEST criteria of YK being the T20 batting coach is?
You guessed it right. He was the captain of 2009 T20 WC winning team, And that's it. Nothing can beat that!

But here is the actual reality.
EXCEPT for Rahul Dravid (the only good exception), it's a proven fact that a former great player is almost NEVER a good coach.

Viv Richards coached, Sachin Tendulkar Coached, Wasim Akram coached, Maradona Coached but Viv wasn't able to produce another Viv. Sachin was never able to produce another Sachin, Wasim was never able to produce another Wasim and Maradona was never able to produce another Maradona.

Someone needs to drill this into the heads of PCB admins that coaching IS AN ALL TOGETHER DIFFERENT FIELD - and a former great player is almost NEVER a good coach. Why? It's a whole separate discussion. But the gist of it is, those legendary players are born with some sort of extra special natural talent which gives them a head start.

They then add the same amount of hard work that many other less talented players put, on their talent and these legendary players leave everyone in the dust.

And since they have this extra ordinary inborn talent, it's only a wishful thinking that they will be able to transfer this natural born talent to young kids. It NEVER happens.

Here is an example.
Take Wasim Akram. He is born with a natural alignment in this wrist position, his grip, his arm position, his shoulder strength, his arm ligaments, his elbow pivot, his ball trajectory, his neck position and his weight transfer during the action - everything is perfectly aligned; all naturally.
So what we see? Well, he is able to swing the ball like a banana even at this age. Watch that video where he bowled an inswinger to Atherton an indoor interview ... It's mind boggling.

On the other hand, take Jimmy Anderson or Tim Southee. Both spent years and years to actually LEARN all those dynamics to be able to swing the ball. And reached to the peak point of their careers; this peak of Jimmy or Southee? well, it was something that Wasim had at the beginning of his career. All naturally gifted!

There are tons of Wasim's coaching videos on YT, and 100's of kids and youngsters and experienced left arm and right arm bowlers have tried all those coaching tips but NONE can swing like Wasim. Wasim worked for years in India but wasn't able to produce 1/10 of his own.
Do you know why?
Because Wasim does not know the detail of ALL those dynamics that work in harmony to make the ball swing.
He never learned it all so he can't teach it all. He was simply born with it.

If you ask Jimmy Anderson or Tim Southee to teach the kids how to swing the ball, I bet he will do a better job than Wasim. Why because? Jimmy and Southee actually worked his rear ends off to learn it and hence they are able to teach it. And Wasim was simply born with it.

So I totally agree with you and I don't mean to sound like captain obvious but this stupid mindset of hiring a former great player and wish that he will boil an ocean for us is as stupid as it gets.

Coaching is altogether different specialty. It requires EXTREMELY GOOD inter personal skills and man management skills. The coach must be someone who is easily approachable by the players who can CONFIDENTLY discuss the matters with him.

But many of our former greats acts like self entitled pharos with huge egos who keep on acting as an "all knowing mama ji's".

You can't convince them to be open to change and open up to new ideas. They are not approachable AT ALL. Players can't trust them to explain their weaknesses because it may mean being kicked out of team or being in the bad books of the coach.

What we need is someone who is a professional level 3 coach qualified from a coaching school in England or Australia and he must have a proven track record of making a difference on the international level. Preferably not a desi.

Seriously, I am watching the highlights of BBL these days and see that those local and domestic Aussie kids bat 10 times better than our national T20 batsmen. Their technique, bat speed, agility, fitness and stamina is on a whole new level. It's primarily because they have the right atmosphere and they have the right set of coaches.
 
Here is what it is.

From the intellect of many in PCB, the BIGGEST criteria of YK being the T20 batting coach is?
You guessed it right. He was the captain of 2009 T20 WC winning team, And that's it. Nothing can beat that!

But here is the actual reality.
EXCEPT for Rahul Dravid (the only good exception), it's a proven fact that a former great player is almost NEVER a good coach.

Viv Richards coached, Sachin Tendulkar Coached, Wasim Akram coached, Maradona Coached but Viv wasn't able to produce another Viv. Sachin was never able to produce another Sachin, Wasim was never able to produce another Wasim and Maradona was never able to produce another Maradona.

Someone needs to drill this into the heads of PCB admins that coaching IS AN ALL TOGETHER DIFFERENT FIELD - and a former great player is almost NEVER a good coach. Why? It's a whole separate discussion. But the gist of it is, those legendary players are born with some sort of extra special natural talent which gives them a head start.

They then add the same amount of hard work that many other less talented players put, on their talent and these legendary players leave everyone in the dust.

And since they have this extra ordinary inborn talent, it's only a wishful thinking that they will be able to transfer this natural born talent to young kids. It NEVER happens.

Here is an example.
Take Wasim Akram. He is born with a natural alignment in this wrist position, his grip, his arm position, his shoulder strength, his arm ligaments, his elbow pivot, his ball trajectory, his neck position and his weight transfer during the action - everything is perfectly aligned; all naturally.
So what we see? Well, he is able to swing the ball like a banana even at this age. Watch that video where he bowled an inswinger to Atherton an indoor interview ... It's mind boggling.

On the other hand, take Jimmy Anderson or Tim Southee. Both spent years and years to actually LEARN all those dynamics to be able to swing the ball. And reached to the peak point of their careers; this peak of Jimmy or Southee? well, it was something that Wasim had at the beginning of his career. All naturally gifted!

There are tons of Wasim's coaching videos on YT, and 100's of kids and youngsters and experienced left arm and right arm bowlers have tried all those coaching tips but NONE can swing like Wasim. Wasim worked for years in India but wasn't able to produce 1/10 of his own.
Do you know why?
Because Wasim does not know the detail of ALL those dynamics that work in harmony to make the ball swing.
He never learned it all so he can't teach it all. He was simply born with it.

If you ask Jimmy Anderson or Tim Southee to teach the kids how to swing the ball, I bet he will do a better job than Wasim. Why because? Jimmy and Southee actually worked his rear ends off to learn it and hence they are able to teach it. And Wasim was simply born with it.

So I totally agree with you and I don't mean to sound like captain obvious but this stupid mindset of hiring a former great player and wish that he will boil an ocean for us is as stupid as it gets.

Coaching is altogether different specialty. It requires EXTREMELY GOOD inter personal skills and man management skills. The coach must be someone who is easily approachable by the players who can CONFIDENTLY discuss the matters with him.

But many of our former greats acts like self entitled pharos with huge egos who keep on acting as an "all knowing mama ji's".

You can't convince them to be open to change and open up to new ideas. They are not approachable AT ALL. Players can't trust them to explain their weaknesses because it may mean being kicked out of team or being in the bad books of the coach.

What we need is someone who is a professional level 3 coach qualified from a coaching school in England or Australia and he must have a proven track record of making a difference on the international level. Preferably not a desi.

Seriously, I am watching the highlights of BBL these days and see that those local and domestic Aussie kids bat 10 times better than our national T20 batsmen. Their technique, bat speed, agility, fitness and stamina is on a whole new level. It's primarily because they have the right atmosphere and they have the right set of coaches.

Brilliantly explained, POTW
 
[MENTION=151861]Colorblind Genius[/MENTION] - some very good points I agree with much of what you said. The crazy part is, YK was an absolutely abysmal T20 player.

having said that we have to keep in mind some exceptions to the rule you stated. IK for example would make a wonderful cricket coach. So would many others I can think of. I also think despite all the criticism Misbah will be a very good coach for this Pak test team. But YK for T20? Based on what exactly?

As far as I see all our top order bats are trying to bat like this guy and it is not working out.
 
That notebook is for the cameras only. His acting skills are quite good these days. Must have practiced with Shadab, the best actor in the team today now that Shehzad isn’t around.
 
For e.g Khushdil Shah, how can someone like Younis Khan fix a legside hack? I don't see how he can
 
That notebook is for the cameras only. His acting skills are quite good these days. Must have practiced with Shadab, the best actor in the team today now that Shehzad isn’t around.

I dont know man more than half the Indian team is full of actors I am beginning to think its not necessarily a disqualifier. Dont get me started on Kohli doing bhangra half the time on the pitch. Or that awfully off-key sword/nagin style dance. Wth is that all about! Self respect anyone?
 
I disagree with OP. Younis khan was a fine T20 player, merely because he came later down in the innings and he used to play his orthodox shots all the time. He kept the scorecard ticking. Yes he wasn’t a big hitter but he did play some very good innings in 2007 and 2009 world t20. Also he has a much better cricketing brain than Misbah, was a far superior captain and I think he is a better coach than Misbah too. He should be persisted with.
 
Just heard the interview live in the ground. Who throws their team under the bus like that after a difficult performance? Please PCB remove this guy from any position of authority he has no idea how to handle things.
 
Abysmal T20 bat? The man was our top scorer in the world cup that we won and also made the team of the tournament as batsman and captain.

LOOOL
 
Just heard the interview live in the ground. Who throws their team under the bus like that after a difficult performance? Please PCB remove this guy from any position of authority he has no idea how to handle things.

What did he say? Hardly surprising anyway.
 
Not that I support Misbah or Younis as a coach. But c'mon. How many coaches in the world were/are great T20 players?
 
I disagree with OP. Younis khan was a fine T20 player, merely because he came later down in the innings and he used to play his orthodox shots all the time. He kept the scorecard ticking. Yes he wasn’t a big hitter but he did play some very good innings in 2007 and 2009 world t20. Also he has a much better cricketing brain than Misbah, was a far superior captain and I think he is a better coach than Misbah too. He should be persisted with.

Absolutely this
 
Younis was acting like an Bangla/Afghan coach. Pure minnow level excitement from the coach. Can't be taking these dead rubber t20 wins with so much excitement.
 
He must have worked with Rizwan, eariler he couldn't even clear the inner circle like Fawad Alam
 
He must have worked with Rizwan, eariler he couldn't even clear the inner circle like Fawad Alam

Rizwan started working on power hitting with Razzaq in the NT20 cup. (Not sure if YK worked with him too.)
 
i dont think at intnl level a coach is supposed to teach you basics, they are to enhance the talent, do minor tweaks to get more out of the player, highlight minor grey areas, where as here in our setup boys are walking in to learn how basics... yk or anyone else for that matter, not going to be able to change players at intnl level... pee wee leagues then under aged cricket, the grassroots, thats where yk or moyo etc are needed...

Totaly agree good post
 
Younis was acting like an Bangla/Afghan coach. Pure minnow level excitement from the coach. Can't be taking these dead rubber t20 wins with so much excitement.
Lol this was against a good T20 team chasing a relatively big total.
 
Lol this was against a good T20 team chasing a relatively big total.

170 is a below par total for a strong NZ side at home. The bowlers, especially Faheem Ashraf deserves a lot of credit for keeping them below 200.
 
Any player needs to have a great record of T20 cricket to be a good coach? First time I'm hearing this
 
No not a great record necessarily but do need to show some aptitude for that form of cricket. A test specialist is less likely to be a good T20 coach just like a footballer is less likely to be a good baseball coach.

Younis has bigger problems however. Like controlling his emotions. Misbah has the same issue in T20's you can see the nervous twitching on the balcony. Not a good look from a coach who needs to teach the players how to control their own emotions when things get really tight.

Younis teaching Haider how to bat reminds me a little bit of Miandad trying his luck with Afridi. Neither situation is going to work out well in the end.
 
This is Pakistan cricket - smiles, taking notes and your reputation as a player will only take you so far.

Interesting times ahead.
 
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