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Can we stop putting military on high pedestal?

SangasCoverDrive

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Can we stop putting the military on a high pedestal? It's not just India or Pakistan but every country in the world. Pakistanis and Indians are usually the ones most patriotic about their army and continue to ignore war crimes and atrocities committed by their army. Same could be said about USA too, If someone has served in army, they are automatically elevated to god status there.
 
You probably had no interactions with the people of the Army, hence posting such a naive thought.
Literally every countries Army Service men are revered accross the world. It is not an Indian or Pakistani phenomenon.

I have 6 members of my close family serving the Armed Forces of India, 2 of my Grandfathers cousins are martyrs of the War.

Try standing in 50 degrees of Heat of the desert or -30 degrees of Himalayan peak for 6 consecutive months and survive and protect your country before blurting out such naive statements.
 
Can we stop putting the military on a high pedestal? It's not just India or Pakistan but every country in the world. Pakistanis and Indians are usually the ones most patriotic about their army and continue to ignore war crimes and atrocities committed by their army. Same could be said about USA too, If someone has served in army, they are automatically elevated to god status there.

pbly gonna repeat whats been said in the above post. if you've had family in the military you wouldn't say that. being a soldier is one of the hardest jobs in the world, and the people who do it dont do it for the money. they do it because they believe they are serving their people and country.

its fair to criticise war crimes committed by armies, but it doesnt make sense to go around blaming individual soldiers for doing their job.

beyond war when natural disasters happen you dont send civis in, u send in military because they are the only ones with the administrative and logistical capabilities to sort out disasters, and work way beyond 9 to 5ing.

criticising political involvement of army, or war mongering is fair game, but armies serves a purpose, which is not completely obvious until people get rid of armies, and theres nothing wrong with people supporting individual soldiers, as is the norm in most countries, and it does not absolve the military leadership of any wrong doing it may have done.
 
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Agree with you, OP. They deserve respect, but South Asians especially go too far.

All the cringey TikToks that my parents see on Pakistani TikToks like 'LOVE PAK ARMY [heart eyes emoji x10]' get tiring.
 
For once I agree with the OP. The Armed Forces come from the same society as the rest of the people in the country. They are not more patriotic, they are not more honest, they are not more competent.

They deserve as much as respect as people of other professions. But certainly should not be viewed as better than others, and definitely not elevated to a god like status.
 
pbly gonna repeat whats been said in the above post. if you've had family in the military you wouldn't say that. being a soldier is one of the hardest jobs in the world, and the people who do it dont do it for the money. they do it because they believe they are serving their people and country.

its fair to criticise war crimes committed by armies, but it doesnt make sense to go around blaming individual soldiers for doing their job.

beyond war when natural disasters happen you dont send civis in, u send in military because they are the only ones with the administrative and logistical capabilities to sort out disasters, and work way beyond 9 to 5ing.

criticising political involvement of army, or war mongering is fair game, but armies serves a purpose, which is not completely obvious until people get rid of armies, and theres nothing wrong with people supporting individual soldiers, as is the norm in most countries, and it does not absolve the military leadership of any wrong doing it may have done.

Are you sure? Like if the salary was minimum wage, and no perks would soldiers still sign up? Especially the officer class? lets be real, the perks and money that they get are a huge reason why people sign up. With that said all countries give perks to the Armed Forces. And thats fine.
 
You probably had no interactions with the people of the Army, hence posting such a naive thought.
Literally every countries Army Service men are revered accross the world. It is not an Indian or Pakistani phenomenon.

I have 6 members of my close family serving the Armed Forces of India, 2 of my Grandfathers cousins are martyrs of the War.

Try standing in 50 degrees of Heat of the desert or -30 degrees of Himalayan peak for 6 consecutive months and survive and protect your country before blurting out such naive statements.

They are not doing it for free. They are getting compensated for that.
 
Just because you served in -50 degrees in Himalayas or scorching heat in Syria, it doesn’t give you an excuse to rape women and kill people on the basis of hunch
 
Agree with OP.

I have more respect for nurses.

Militaries do help in the event of natural disasters, but that’s nothing compared to the nurses who help day in day out at hospitals, and with the Red Cross, give up their indigenous lives to help the needy in places abroad like Africa, on a daily basis.
 
They are not doing it for free. They are getting compensated for that.

Right. Well they are compensated much less as compared to people working in air conditioned offices and those having the free time of blurting out naive statements about Army men on the social media.

Many will not survive 15 minutes in the harsh environment that the Armed forces have to suffer.
I have serving members in my family, so spare me this non-sense of compensation.
 
People becoming touchy about criticism of their military is a worldwide phenomenon. I think the military of every country should be saluted for putting their lives on the front lines but people, particularly in asian countries, tend to put their armies on a very high pedestal that should be never subject to any sort of criticism and anyone who dares to do so is seen along the lines of a traitor to the country's cause. People should realise that there are bad apples in every profession like police, doctors, engineers, etc., and the military is no exception to that rule.

If anything, some young men tend to get desensitised with all the trauma they constantly see and when that happens, particularly when the army is in vicinity of a civilian population, the position of power almost always gets misused by a few and human rights violations happen. We saw horrifying glimpses of that in some of the exposes through the wikileaks cables. Finally those soldiers end up with PTSD when they return to the normal world, which is very common among those soldiers involved in the middle east. Everyone loves his or her army like his own mother but the fact is, every military in the world has done shady things in the past and not a single army in the world is perfect without skeletons in its closet.

This is of course not to insinuate that entire military should be blamed but the fact is, if you have studied every event in the past when the military is in contact with civilians, the position of power and privilege almost always ends up getting misused, sometimes in gross manner and we have seen examples of that all over the world. People tend to sanctify certain professions/work - farmers because they produce food, doctors because they save lives, etc., and military gets the highest privilege among that. A society functions well when people in every profession work to their optimal ability and professionalism, and military obviously is the bravest among all those professions because they actually put their lives at stake. But at the same time when they get saluted for their courage, which tends to happen in every country, talking about the violations in behaviour becomes a taboo subject invoking brands and labels of "treachery", "anti nationalism", etc., which shouldn't happen imo. The point is there are bad apples in every profession and while the entire profession shouldn't get blamed for the bad apples, it is however very important to identify and address the bad apples first instead of ignoring them and simply thinking none such exist. There, I said it.
 
Right. Well they are compensated much less as compared to people working in air conditioned offices and those having the free time of blurting out naive statements about Army men on the social media.

Many will not survive 15 minutes in the harsh environment that the Armed forces have to suffer.
I have serving members in my family, so spare me this non-sense of compensation.

You think you the only person who knows people who have served in Armed Forces? The serving members in your family are most likely in the officer class.

While in high school i knew many people who signed up for the enlisted rank (jawans in South Asia). These people were certainly not the creme de la creme of society. Majority of the were not capable of getting high paying air conditioned jobs. They are getting a better deal by signing up for the Armed Forces. Its a great option for them, and the compensation is all they deserve. Not the endless "Thank you" for your service comments.

Their were a few talented folks I know who did sign up, but they did so so they could get free college. Again the perks is what drew them to service. Not patriotism.

Now as far as the officer class goes. Yes they have the ability to get those high paying air conditioned office jobs. But the jobs they have in the Armed Forces are also high paying. Maybe not as much as private sector, but you have to remember they get a pension and they retire early.

Lets put it this way. If the salary in the Armed Forces was minimum wage how many people would sign up???????
 
If military weren't put on a high pedestal, why would youngsters want to put their lives on the line on behalf of their country? Who would want to be in the army if they weren't given such a high level of respect for their services?
 
If military weren't put on a high pedestal, why would youngsters want to put their lives on the line on behalf of their country? Who would want to be in the army if they weren't given such a high level of respect for their services?

Bc it’s easier to become a soldier? They have benefits and don’t require any qualifications
 
Bc it’s easier to become a soldier? They have benefits and don’t require any qualifications

Neither do footballers or cricketers. Does that mean we should stop putting them on a pedestal as well? Different professions require different qualifications. A soldier won't be suited to becoming a pharmacist or a doctor, a doctor might not be suited to fighting wars in sub-zero temperatures. What is easier or harder is subjective.

Also when we are talking about pedestals, we have to accept the reality. You aren't going to get blockbuster movies about IT analysts, people want to watch films about war heroes or intergalactic soldiers fighting giant insects. Perhaps in communist China it's different, but in our world this is how it is.
 
Bc it’s easier to become a soldier? They have benefits and don’t require any qualifications

Thats wrong. The soldier needs to have a certain level of physical and even mental attributes than that of the average human to become one.

However I agree with the basic premise of the thread. This actually applies to anyone we lookup
to and consider our heroes for their talent, skills and profession that we admire and not just the army.
 
Neither do footballers or cricketers. Does that mean we should stop putting them on a pedestal as well? Different professions require different qualifications. A soldier won't be suited to becoming a pharmacist or a doctor, a doctor might not be suited to fighting wars in sub-zero temperatures. What is easier or harder is subjective.

Also when we are talking about pedestals, we have to accept the reality. You aren't going to get blockbuster movies about IT analysts, people want to watch films about war heroes or intergalactic soldiers fighting giant insects. Perhaps in communist China it's different, but in our world this is how it is.

Footballers and cricketers don't kill people. They are representing the nation at world level.
 
Thats wrong. The soldier needs to have a certain level of physical and even mental attributes than that of the average human to become one.

However I agree with the basic premise of the thread. This actually applies to anyone we lookup
to and consider our heroes for their talent, skills and profession that we admire and not just the army.

People don't realize the physical hardship of the army training until they are part of it. Some of them are brainwashed by their parents to serve the country.
 
Footballers and cricketers don't kill people. They are representing the nation at world level.

I can’t speak for the Pakistan army but Indian army is called defense services for a reason and killing is always told to be the last option while defending. Even we hear about abuses by US soldiers and they are held accountable and some have even been punished and some obviously who got away. Not so different from some people getting a life ban for fixing and some getting a 6 month ban or some even escaping it all their Careers. Killing for defense is acceptable, now how many checks and balances you have around it is a different debate.
 
If military weren't put on a high pedestal, why would youngsters want to put their lives on the line on behalf of their country? Who would want to be in the army if they weren't given such a high level of respect for their services?

Lol, maybe in the UK some people are taking causes because of glorious conquests of military etc but in US a lot of kids join the army because they see it as a chance to participate in a real life Call of Duty game. Not everything is black and white.
 
i have more respect for the pak army then anyone, but yes the generals are milking it and using our support to rob us and controll us at the same time.
 
Are you sure? Like if the salary was minimum wage, and no perks would soldiers still sign up? Especially the officer class? lets be real, the perks and money that they get are a huge reason why people sign up. With that said all countries give perks to the Armed Forces. And thats fine.

my grandfathers have passed away so cant spead for them, but i know 100% my uncle would have, and my dad would have too (but he failed the medical for selection and ended up in corporate sector instead).

they didnt care about the money, the prestige yes, but it was primarily the idea of serving as their fathers had before them.

a lot of it was also that for landowners in punjab, the military was seen as an honourable job, whereas a lot of other jobs were seen as demeaning.

i digress though, but from my experience talking to people who either joined, or wanted to, the money has very little to do with it compared to other motivational factors.
 
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