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Chasing or Batting First – Pakistan Seem Doomed Either Way

RKhan_Cricket

Tape Ball Regular
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Runs
449
Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Pakistan bats first, India’s bowling attack will choke us to the point we can’t even put up a respectable total. If we chase, forget it — we don’t have the mentality or temperament to handle the pressure. Every single time it looks like the nerves eat us alive.

So what’s the plan? How exactly are we supposed to beat India. Enough of the false hope and sugar-coating — reality is, right now we look completely clueless against them no matter the situation.

Every time we face India, it’s the same movie: big talk, zero execution. We look nervous, clueless, and honestly scared. Unless something drastically changes.
 
Fans need to cope with reality. Man to man in the team, bench and second eleven, everyone knows India is the superior team.

This Pakistani team has to be backed and allowed to learn from experience. Going back to Babar Rizwan is not the answer.
 
Fans need to cope with reality. Man to man in the team, bench and second eleven, everyone knows India is the superior team.

This Pakistani team has to be backed and allowed to learn from experience. Going back to Babar Rizwan is not the answer.
I agree about not going back... have to keep moving forwards.

However, there is nothing anyone can do about the IQ levels and lack of education of our players....
 
You need 170+ if you bat first and restrict them below 160 if they bat first to beat India.
If you score 170+ than you are bringing Gill into a game. Abhishek might fail during these kinda chases but it's Gill who will make sure to play kohli -esque innings to take you home. Lol
I am genuine confused against this mighty india team.
 
Pak have not defended a total v India in 8 years.

There only glimmer was to chase but even then, India attacked would have choked them to death and pak mental midgets would inevitably collapse
 
Pak have not defended a total v India in 8 years.

There only glimmer was to chase but even then, India attacked would have choked them to death and pak mental midgets would inevitably collapse
That would have been an even heavier defeat.

India is more than capable of posting 200+ batting first
 
It wouldn't have mattered unless there India 3 wickets down with powerplay score less than 36
 
Yes we would have lost, but our thought process was wrong and showed our defeatist mindset even before the first ball was bowled.

We already have a much weaker batting line-up, so why would you add more pressure to it by asking yourselves to bat first on a Dubai pitch that is a bit tacky in the beginning.

They were scared of collapsing against the spinners chasing, which is exactly what happened in the first innings aswell.
 
Batting first or bowling first, Rizbar or no Rizbar, pack our bowling with spinners or pacers - there's just too big a chasm between the two cricketing nations and nothing short of major structural reform will prevent these results from happening again and again.

India have moved so far ahead in almost every aspect of their cricket that its like we're not even playing the same sport anymore.
 
Pakistani team has zero talent zero skills zero mental ability and they don't work hard either.

They are just pathetic in every aspect. Pakistan really should stop playing cricket. It's not their cup of tea.
There is not even a single good player in the team.
No bowler no batsman nothing.
 
If you score 170+ than you are bringing Gill into a game. Abhishek might fail during these kinda chases but it's Gill who will make sure to play kohli -esque innings to take you home. Lol
I am genuine confused against this mighty india team.
We had a much better t20 player and innings builder in Jaiswal, we dont need Gill. Gill has way more weakness against spin and other bowling types.
 
We are still behind in our head to head record in Tests and ODI's. Something that really, really bothers me.
It will remain like that for some time.
We can thank BCCI for that, maybe they are not that bad after all.
Not long before we catch up. But our oldies really did us in, seriously!


Not really ... I truly like it the way it is. I mean we have won 99% of all big matches every where on the planet including even the friggin Asia cup ... there cannot be a bigger humiliation lol :cigar
 
Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Pakistan bats first, India’s bowling attack will choke us to the point we can’t even put up a respectable total. If we chase, forget it — we don’t have the mentality or temperament to handle the pressure. Every single time it looks like the nerves eat us alive.

Its very simple really to explain why that happens .... the core skills gap ( batting, bowling and fielding ) between the 2 teams is soo massive that even if the two teams play T10 cricket India will win 9 out of 10 games. The odd matches that we lose are due to the nature of short T20 format which allows for upsets because you only have to be better for a short duration. But longer the format the higher the chances of a absolute beatdown ... and since the longest format that we occasionally play is the ODI there is simply negligible chance that Ind will lose in a ODI match to Pakistan and this can be easily seen in the record

 
It will remain like that for some time.
We can thank BCCI for that, maybe they are not that bad after all.
Right now Pakistan are seen as a minnow, but honestly India aren’t that strong in ODIs either. Take Bumrah out and their bowling looks very ordinary, while their two great batters are at the tail end of their careers. Pakistan can definitely challenge them in this format.

In Tests, it all comes down to conditions. On turning tracks, both teams struggle against spin so the result is unpredictable. On seam-and-swing wickets, Pakistan’s batting might cope better, but India’s bowling depth still gives them the edge. On flat or bouncy pitches, it’s game over for Pakistan.

So head-to-head in ODIs, the gap might stay the same or reduce slightly if they play regularly. But in Tests, India will keep pulling further ahead.
 
Its very simple really to explain why that happens .... the core skills gap ( batting, bowling and fielding ) between the 2 teams is soo massive that even if the two teams play T10 cricket India will win 9 out of 10 games. The odd matches that we lose are due to the nature of short T20 format which allows for upsets because you only have to be better for a short duration. But longer the format the higher the chances of a absolute beatdown ... and since the longest format that we occasionally play is the ODI there is simply negligible chance that Ind will lose in a ODI match to Pakistan and this can be easily seen in the record

I agree with you when it comes to T10/T20 — the shorter the format, the more likely India dominates because of the massive skill gap, and Pakistan can only sneak through on rare upsets. But in ODIs, I don’t fully agree. Yes, India has beaten Pakistan in recent encounters, but most of the time it’s been down to Kohli and Rohit carrying them. Once they’re gone, India’s batting will look far less experienced, and with Bumrah also nearing his end due to injuries, their bowling won’t be as threatening either.
That’s where I feel Pakistan can actually push India harder in ODIs going forward. In fact, I have this belief that by the 2027 World Cup, Pakistan might finally be in a position to upset India for the first time. I know it sounds like too much confidence, especially given how our team usually collapses at just the thought of India in World Cups, but I can’t shake the feeling that something big is building up for that tournament.
 
I agree with you when it comes to T10/T20 — the shorter the format, the more likely India dominates because of the massive skill gap, and Pakistan can only sneak through on rare upsets. But in ODIs, I don’t fully agree. Yes, India has beaten Pakistan in recent encounters, but most of the time it’s been down to Kohli and Rohit carrying them. Once they’re gone, India’s batting will look far less experienced, and with Bumrah also nearing his end due to injuries, their bowling won’t be as threatening either.
That’s where I feel Pakistan can actually push India harder in ODIs going forward. In fact, I have this belief that by the 2027 World Cup, Pakistan might finally be in a position to upset India for the first time. I know it sounds like too much confidence, especially given how our team usually collapses at just the thought of India in World Cups, but I can’t shake the feeling that something big is building up for that tournament.
Naah you are making a mistake.

You are assuming that the next generation won't be as good. Same was thought when Sachin, Dhoni etc retired.

It will be BETTER.

The issue is not in the players, it's in the systems.

Cricket has become an extremely professional game and this benefits teams with good systems, instead of natural talent.

The first world countries have become real good since the 2000s.

And India with it's size and rising economy have also developed a good system. Thing is India is still growing so the sytems will get even better.

Pakistan's economic stagnation means their system has suffered.

Since we are talking about ODIs, if we take the seven ODIs played after the 17 CT -

I agree Rohit and Kohli were the best batsmen with two MoMs each but thing is all those matches were so one sided that India would have won even with less contributions by them.

And not like others did not contribute.

Kuldeep - great bowling performances in EVERY match
Pandya - good support bowling in every match plus good knock in the rain affected AC 23 match (where both Rohit/Kohli failed)
Iyer - 50s in both WC 2023 and CT 2025
Dhawan - 100 in AC 2018 and MoM
Rahul - 50 in WC 2019 and 100 in AC 2023
Gill - 50 in AC 2023 and 49 in CT 2025

Plus guys like Bhuvneshwar, Jadeja, Axar, Siraj have had decent performances.

So your assumption that Pak can upset Ind in 2027 is more on hope than reality.

First of all Ro-Ko will prolly play as will Bumrah.

And even post that Gill, Jaiswal etc will have matured and be the new Ro-Ko (who replaced the likes of Sachin-Sehwag etc).

Bowling wise Kuldeep will still be there and Arshdeep/Rana etc will have matured more (both of whom have done well against Pak whenever they have played).
 
Its very simple really to explain why that happens .... the core skills gap ( batting, bowling and fielding ) between the 2 teams is soo massive that even if the two teams play T10 cricket India will win 9 out of 10 games. The odd matches that we lose are due to the nature of short T20 format which allows for upsets because you only have to be better for a short duration. But longer the format the higher the chances of a absolute beatdown ... and since the longest format that we occasionally play is the ODI there is simply negligible chance that Ind will lose in a ODI match to Pakistan and this can be easily seen in the record

Since India added wicket taking spinners for the MO it's been 6-0 (would have been 7 if the AC 2023 first match went on).
 
Right now Pakistan are seen as a minnow, but honestly India aren’t that strong in ODIs either. Take Bumrah out and their bowling looks very ordinary, while their two great batters are at the tail end of their careers. Pakistan can definitely challenge them in this format.

In Tests, it all comes down to conditions. On turning tracks, both teams struggle against spin so the result is unpredictable. On seam-and-swing wickets, Pakistan’s batting might cope better, but India’s bowling depth still gives them the edge. On flat or bouncy pitches, it’s game over for Pakistan.

So head-to-head in ODIs, the gap might stay the same or reduce slightly if they play regularly. But in Tests, India will keep pulling further ahead.
India literally won the CT unbeaten without Bumrah.

India literally have Kuldeep/Varun.

Shami is great too but I agree he is past his prime.

Plus three great ARs in Axar, Jadeja, Pandya.

Siraj is solid too as is Arshdeep but smaller sample sizes.

And how can you say that Pak batting would do better in seam and swing conditions in tests when the last SENA match they won was in 2018 post which they have been whitewashed in SA (twice), NZ, Aus (twice) and also lost in Eng?

Ind in that period have won vs Aus twice, drew vs Eng twice and drew vs SA and have won 12 matches in SENA.

Ind-Pak gap will diverge even further in ALL formats as the economies diverge further.

All this thing about "talunt", "jazba" is just cope.

Richer countries do better in sports as they have better systems/infrastructure.
 
. In fact, I have this belief that by the 2027 World Cup, Pakistan might finally be in a position to upset India for the first time. I know it sounds like too much confidence, especially given how our team usually collapses at just the thought of India in World Cups, but I can’t shake the feeling that something big is building up for that tournament.
Rohit and kohli will retire in aus series. Jaiswal and sai sudarshan will be in their place.both are technically good and test match players. Sai sudarshan came in to limelight ( debut odi series) after proving himself against burger on spicy sa wickets. There is one more criteria that odi wc may happen on batting tracks like centurion, 2003 wc .it will completely negate any benefit as Indian batsmen will milk it out.
 
Rohit and kohli will retire in aus series. Jaiswal and sai sudarshan will be in their place.both are technically good and test match players. Sai sudarshan came in to limelight ( debut odi series) after proving himself against burger on spicy sa wickets. There is one more criteria that odi wc may happen on batting tracks like centurion, 2003 wc .it will completely negate any benefit as Indian batsmen will milk it out.
Naah, Ro-Ko are still good ODI players. As long as their forms don't deteriorate they will play 2027.
 
As per multiple reports, after eng series gambhir and co are very confident to push out seniors. I guess even in worst case kohli may survive due to his fitness but not rohit.
Difference is those two were finished in tests but are still good in ODIs. They were the MoM in semi and final respectively in their last matches.
 
Many of us here on the forum follow football well. At the moment Pakistan is a championship side and India is a premier league side. But in cup football unexpected results can't happen, especially when the tie is a derby.

We need to stop being so over analytical. 1-2 players have a good day and 1-2 players have a bad day on the other side and the game is on.
 
If Pakistan bowls first , they are favourites . In the words of some of PP's most experienced posters - Indian spinners are overrated and Pakistan has the most talented Asian batsman in Mohammad Haris

All they need to do now is not become timid which they won't do now that SKY has , unwisely, chosen to tick them off.
 
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