Clive Lloyd - One of the most unappreciated cricketers ever?

[Suleiman]

This man was arguably one of the greatest captains ever, who oversaw West Indies hit their peak and dominate for years.

Yet as a player he was also top notch. Yes, an average of about 47 with about 17 centuries doesn't set him apart much from other batting greats from the era, but the fact is that he got a serious eye injury when he was 12 years old. He tried to break up a fight, and in the process he got serious eye injuries and thus was forced to wear thick spectacles throughout his entire career.

I don't know why, but I have an elevated degree of respect for batsmen who bat with glasses. Knowing the ball can get big on you and hit you in the face, shattering your glasses and cause further implications if the glasses get to sensitive areas in/near the eyes. All this compounded by the fact that he already had handicapped eyes compared to other competing batsmen at the international level put him at a disadvantage, and despite that he was fearless and was seen as a naturally aggressive batsman who would enjoy the short length.

Think that is really commendable, and maybe had he not copped that eye injury he may have gone further because his senses would be at 100%.

But him breaking up that fight is very noble, and playing with a handicap for ears and walking out with respectable stats is very impressive.

 

[pacesensation]

This man was arguably one of the greatest captains ever, who oversaw West Indies hit their peak and dominate for years.

Yet as a player he was also top notch. Yes, an average of about 47 with about 17 centuries doesn't set him apart much from other batting greats from the era, but the fact is that he got a serious eye injury when he was 12 years old. He tried to break up a fight, and in the process he got serious eye injuries and thus was forced to wear thick spectacles throughout his entire career.

I don't know why, but I have an elevated degree of respect for batsmen who bat with glasses. Knowing the ball can get big on you and hit you in the face, shattering your glasses and cause further implications if the glasses get to sensitive areas in/near the eyes. All this compounded by the fact that he already had handicapped eyes compared to other competing batsmen at the international level put him at a disadvantage, and despite that he was fearless and was seen as a naturally aggressive batsman who would enjoy the short length.

Think that is really commendable, and maybe had he not copped that eye injury he may have gone further because his senses would be at 100%.

But him breaking up that fight is very noble, and playing with a handicap for ears and walking out with respectable stats is very impressive.

Agreed, was miles ahead than every indian player of 80s (individually) (maybe, maybe not better than gavaskar but I would ask [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] to give his opinion on it)

 

[Suleiman]

Agreed, was miles ahead than every indian player of 80s (individually) (maybe, maybe not better than gavaskar but I would ask [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] to give his opinion on it)

Yeah but Gavaskar had 100% use of his eyes and he was much shorter than Lloyd. Short batsman have an advantage, they have a lower center of gravity and can get to the ball quicker. Lloyd's hand-eye coordination was impacted by his eyesight and he was tall at 6'4, and despite that he had worked hard enough on his game to get to the ball fast and smash it. Think Lloyd should be held at a higher level.

 

[pacesensation]

Yeah but Gavaskar had 100% use of his eyes and he was much shorter than Lloyd. Short batsman have an advantage, they have a lower center of gravity and can get to the ball quicker. Lloyd's hand-eye coordination was impacted by his eyesight and he was tall at 6'4, and despite that he had worked hard enough on his game to get to the ball fast and smash it. Think Lloyd should be held at a higher level.

Well after taking into consideration your post. I think he is better than gavaskar and sachin . Quality wise he faced far tougher opponets. Totally agree. Bro, great thread.

 

[MMHS]

Agreed, was miles ahead than every indian player of 80s (individually) (maybe, maybe not better than gavaskar but I would ask [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] to give his opinion on it)

Lloyd 'll make my Test team of 70s, but he wasn't in the level of Viv, Greg & Sunny; neither Kanhai. Rather, he was a shed below, but better than Zaheer, Amiss, Vishwanath or Walters; probably at per with Ian Chappel, Turner & Boycott - different type of batsman though.

In ODI, he was 4th best in 70s/80s, but the other 3 were Viv, Zaheer & Greg - batsmen who probably would stacked 60-65/100-110 sort of stats in ODI, had they started career in late 90s.

As a captain, don't laugh at this - but most similarities I find is with Misbah. Different individual capacity off course, both were extremely cool, composed & commanded respect for their personalities. Lead (or leading) two different teams, therefore result won't match, but both are extremely good house keeper - brilliant when leading a side where individuals know their role & responsibility, as well as capable. Lloyd rolled almost every team for a decade, Misbah is doing almost similar in UAE where his team is world class. Lloyd kept his team in control with iron fists, Misbah also doing that, may be in a polished way. But, it's not surprising that for a team like PAK, almost for half a decade, there is no controversy in Test team.

I don't think, Lloyd tactically was that sound (pardon me for the choice of word, I am sharing my feelings) - his job was to call at toss & then ask Marshall/Holding/Garner or Grineedge/Hayens/Viv to get ready; don't think it was the toughest job to be honest. In few occasions, where he was called for crisis - he failed to defend 400 against IND, failed to finish IND inside 125 in 1983 WC final, failed to beat Lillee at MCG '81 & failed to beat AUS in 3 attempts at SCG, where his monsters were harnessed, and he had to thank lot of people outside his team for the 2-1 Series win at home to a great PAK side in '76, which should have been 3-1 in favor of visitors & he won't be able to talk eye ball to eye ball for the Jamaica Test against IND in '76.

I think, of his contemporary Ian, Tony, Mushtaq, Pataudi, Howarth & Ali Baker were better Captains, but I can't prove anything.

 

[Markhor]

Everybody in the West Indies dressing room respected Clive Lloyd. Its not easy managing what people often forget is not a united nation, but a union of countries, a team featuring players from such varying backgrounds and handling all the inter-island politics.

He did have incredible talent at his disposal but he put together the four fast bowler combination that was to be so lethal post-1976. He built a very professional team. That West Indies team was very fit, with exceptional fielders. Dennis Waight was the trainer was brought in by Lloyd and worked with the team for 23 years.

Think Big Cat does get the appreciation he deserves.

 

[Suleiman]

Everybody in the West Indies dressing room respected Clive Lloyd. Its not easy managing what people often forget is not a united nation, but a union of countries, a team featuring players from such varying backgrounds and handling all the inter-island politics.

He did have incredible talent at his disposal but he put together the four fast bowler combination that was to be so lethal post-1976. He built a very professional team. That West Indies team was very fit, with exceptional fielders. Dennis Waight was the trainer was brought in by Lloyd and worked with the team for 23 years.

Think Big Cat does get the appreciation he deserves.

Ohh big cat, that's it.

Yesterday was discussing about him with my cricket friends and forgot that nickname, kept referring to him as thunder cat

Good points though.

 

[TestMatch]

We arbitrarily ignore many great players simply because they didnt have a test average above 50.

I've always felt guys like Lloyd and Kanhai were great batsmen, Kanhai much more so though.

 

[anuk]

most of the great windies batsmen are underrated here.

 

[pacesensation]

most of the great windies batsmen are underrated here.

Gordon Greenidge

as an example

 

[Suleiman]

most of the great windies batsmen are underrated here.

Yeah exactly. People here call Younis ATG for hopping around to Anderson in UAE and hacking his way to a 50 average.

If Younis is ATG, then guys like Lloyd, Greenidge, Haynes must be AATGs

 

[Itachi]

WI batsman didn't have to face 4 ATG bowler of that time. So I'll always rate them shed below.

 

[Suleiman]

WI batsman didn't have to face 4 ATG bowler of that time. So I'll always rate them shed below.

Poor excuse. That is beyond their control, and at the time they were playing in more bowling friendly conditions compared to today.

It's like saying rate Kohli a shade below other ODI greats from years back because they had to face greater threats like Wasim, Lee, Bond, Pollock, compared to today's lulloo trundler brigades.

Or don't rate Ashwin too highly in LOIs because he doesn't have to face his own heavyweight batting line-up.

 

[Chrish]

4 pacemen were found by lloyd himself after disgraceful series loss against australia facing lillie/ tommo

he is rated appropriately as a player and underrated as a captain

 

[Bhaijaan]

Unappreciated by PP's 12 year olds maybe but for anyone who knows the game and its great ex cricketers, Clive Lloyd remains a historic and heroic figure as a captain just as well as a batsman. Arguably the greatest captain ever. CLive had personality, character and immense ability.

 

[Bhaijaan]

most of the great windies batsmen are underrated here.

What's up with silly comments today, one after another. WI players remain the most over rated. Sobers batting ability is ridiculously overrated on one great double hundred in a non international game. Same with Vic Richards who seem to get +5 bonus average for playing without a helmet and hitting some sixes.

 

[Robert]

An excellent manager and motivator. Before him, the Windies were more at war with each other than the opposition teams.

Lloyd took the Lillee-Thomson model and doubled it.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What separates GREAT leaders from the rest the most is that they have VISION and they take great pains to work towards it.

Team strength, win loss ratio, etc are all faulty yardsticks.

Captains like Clive Lloyd, Imran Khan, Allan Border, Sourav Ganguly, Arjuna Ranatunga, Stephen Fleming, etc will always be great leaders.

 

[Slog]

What's up with silly comments today, one after another. WI players remain the most over rated. Sobers batting ability is ridiculously overrated on one great double hundred in a non international game. Same with Vic Richards who seem to get +5 bonus average for playing without a helmet and hitting some sixes.

such an ignorant post

i hope youre trolling

 

[Junaids]

An excellent manager and motivator. Before him, the Windies were more at war with each other than the opposition teams.

Lloyd took the Lillee-Thomson model and doubled it.

As you know, I'm a proud lifelong member of Lancashire County Cricket Club.

Clive Lloyd is our greatest ever player - and we have had Brian Statham, Archie MacLaren, Eddie Paynter, Cyril Washbrook, Wasim Akram and Murali. Plus my own favourite, Farokh Engineer of India.

Let this emphasise the absolute greatness of the man.

Clive Lloyd ended his career with 5 Test tours to India and Australia. Playing against the likes of Sunil Gavaskar and Allan Border and alongside Viv Richards.

And at the age of 40, in those final series he outbatted all of those all-time greats, and climbed to the peak of cricket's Everest, ending his career at 40 as the world's Number 1 Ranked Test Batsman.

We talk of the durability of Sachin Tendulkar, but of course by the end he was an embarrassing shadow of his former self.

Clive Lloyd retired at 40 as the world's best batsman - better than Gavaskar, Richards or Border.

 

[Slog]

he was a great ODI player too averaging 40 at 80+ SR in THOSE days

 

[Bhaijaan]

As you know, I'm a proud lifelong member of Lancashire County Cricket Club.

Clive Lloyd is our greatest ever player - and we have had Brian Statham, Archie MacLaren, Eddie Paynter, Cyril Washbrook, Wasim Akram and Murali. Plus my own favourite, Farokh Engineer of India.

Let this emphasise the absolute greatness of the man.

Clive Lloyd ended his career with 5 Test tours to India and Australia. Playing against the likes of Sunil Gavaskar and Allan Border and alongside Viv Richards.

And at the age of 40, in those final series he outbatted all of those all-time greats, and climbed to the peak of cricket's Everest, ending his career at 40 as the world's Number 1 Ranked Test Batsman.

We talk of the durability of Sachin Tendulkar, but of course by the end he was an embarrassing shadow of his former self.

Clive Lloyd retired at 40 as the world's best batsman - better than Gavaskar, Richards or Border.

Tell me how good a player Clive LLoyd was at 16.

Also Tendulkar was pretty awesome by the age 37. Most cricketers retire by then. Only few top cricketers remain fit enough to rule into their 40s. Good on Clive if he did, he's a genuine great but a rather predictable jibe at Sachin who will always be rated well ahead.

 

[TestMatch]

Tell me how good a player Clive LLoyd was at 16.

Made 107 vs Barbados vs Sobers' bowling and then 190+ vs Jamaican. Spent rest of his teens working full time in a hospital to support his mother and brothers.

Not to mention he has one of the best world cup final innings (watch it on youtube; watch how effortlessly he hooks Lillee for six).

 

[#GreenRoars]

Tell me how good a player Clive LLoyd was at 16.

Also Tendulkar was pretty awesome by the age 37. Most cricketers retire by then. Only few top cricketers remain fit enough to rule into their 40s. Good on Clive if he did, he's a genuine great but a rather predictable jibe at Sachin who will always be rated well ahead.

Are you sure you want to talk about Sachin's career at his early years??? And tbh, Sachin after 32 was not THE Sachin.

And OP, no doubt Clive was a great leader. Don't compare it with Sachin who was all time great player, but yes wasn't a great leader

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1975: &#55356;&#57286;<br>1979: &#55356;&#57286;<br><br>Happy birthday to Clive Lloyd, the man who led <a href="https://twitter.com/westindies?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@westindies</a> to the first two Men's World Cup titles! &#55357;&#56908; <a href="https://t.co/cSuu9ANMx6">pic.twitter.com/cSuu9ANMx6</a></p>— Cricket World Cup (@cricketworldcup) <a href="https://twitter.com/cricketworldcup/status/1035501204003057665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[happydavy]

The greatest captain seen in cricket by a country mile, only person who comes close to him is Graeme Smith. He created the fast bowling quatret, won more matches and series outside his country and quite simply was the best ever.

 

[Mamoon]

The greatest captain seen in cricket by a country mile, only person who comes close to him is Graeme Smith. He created the fast bowling quatret, won more matches and series outside his country and quite simply was the best ever.

He assembled the quartet by picking the right bowlers. He didn’t create the quartet.

As great a leader as he was, we cannot deny that he was also lucky to have bowlers of the caliber at his disposal.

He would have won nothing with mediocre bowlers. Of course every captain needs a great team, but at times, captains get excessive credit for the success of the great players playing under them.

 

[Hitman]

The greatest captain seen in cricket by a country mile, only person who comes close to him is Graeme Smith. He created the fast bowling quatret, won more matches and series outside his country and quite simply was the best ever.

No captain can create talent. All he can do is nurture them, give them the proper opportunities, and utilize them to the best of their potential. After that it all depends on the player whether he makes it or not. Clive Llyod was a great captain, but the primary result of his success as a captain was because he had the opportunity to lead arguably the greatest ever team.

 

[happydavy]

[/b]

He assembled the quartet by picking the right bowlers. He didn’t create the quartet.

As great a leader as he was, we cannot deny that he was also lucky to have bowlers of the caliber at his disposal.

He would have won nothing with mediocre bowlers. Of course every captain needs a great team, but at times, captains get excessive credit for the success of the great players playing under them.

Is there a better way to measure greatness of a captain than the results you produced, the team you selected and the legacy/culture you left? On all these 3 parameters, no one comes close to Lloyd. Look at his first 2 away series, he lost like 6 of 8 matches played. He then changed WI selection strategy and players attitude and after that won like 20+ of 40 next away matches.

Take another example, Imran khan. He had the best of talent at his disposal and what did he achieve? 4 away victories over 10 years. Even at home, he won like 10 test matches, what's the point of having talent if you can't win matches using them.

 

[Hasan123]

1 of crickets greats without a doubt.

 

[Josh]

Happy birthday to the legend Clive Loyd

 

[Saj]

One of my cricketing heroes, a cricketer I always admired.

However when I met him at the Champions Trophy in Birmingham, what a letdown he was. So rude and money-mad.

Said to me "if you want to speak with me, here is my agent's number". My response "I just wanted to say hello to you do I need to contact your agent for that?"

 

[Varun]

How is he under-appreciated?

He is brought up every time that great West Indian team is discussed, and gets to present the World Cup trophy every 4 years.

I'd take that.

 

[Savak]

One of my cricketing heroes, a cricketer I always admired.

However when I met him at the Champions Trophy in Birmingham, what a letdown he was. So rude and money-mad.

Said to me if you want to speak with me, here is my agent's number. My response I just wanted to say hello to you do I need to contact your agent for that

Clive Lloyd for me is a bit over rated as a captain. Just like Ricky Pointing and Steve Waugh, he benefited massively from having an all time great side. Even with that all time great side he lost the 1983 WC final to a very weak Indian team.

I remember one of his ex spouses speak out in public against him where she tried to correct the narrative of Lloyd being a Cricketing gentleman where she mentioned that in real life he was a jerk who did not fulfil his personal responsibilities to his ex wife and kids.

 

[the_outsider]

Overrated captain. But very good man manager.

And not an underrated/overrated batsman at all. People who actually know anything about cricket are very aware of his status.

 

[Junaids]

One of my cricketing heroes, a cricketer I always admired.

However when I met him at the Champions Trophy in Birmingham, what a letdown he was. So rude and money-mad.

Said to me "if you want to speak with me, here is my agent's number". My response "I just wanted to say hello to you do I need to contact your agent for that?"

He retired as the world’s Number 1 batsman ahead of Viv, Sunny and AB because he excelled in Five Test tours to India and Australia.

But he was always a brooding, unlikeable figure. His wife sold her story to the Daily Mail when she saw him on TV in the Royal Box at Wimbledon with someone else, and it was an awful story of living with a pretty unpleasant man.

Great cricketer though.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

One of my cricketing heroes, a cricketer I always admired.

However when I met him at the Champions Trophy in Birmingham, what a letdown he was. So rude and money-mad.

Said to me "if you want to speak with me, here is my agent's number". My response "I just wanted to say hello to you do I need to contact your agent for that?"

You didn't miss much. He's a terrible bore.

Our cricket league once invited him for after dinner speech... oh lord what a terrible disappointment that was.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

He retired as the world’s Number 1 batsman ahead of Viv, Sunny and AB because he excelled in Five Test tours to India and Australia.

But he was always a brooding, unlikeable figure. His wife sold her story to the Daily Mail when she saw him on TV in the Royal Box at Wimbledon with someone else, and it was an awful story of living with a pretty unpleasant man.

Great cricketer though.

And she is/was right!!

Adding to my post above... in that after dinner speech, he spent most of the time being bitter towards the current West Indies cricketers. It was actually quite uncomfortable... bit of an obsessive character.

 

[Junaids]

Arise Sir Clive Lloyd and Sir Gordon Greenidge

A knighthood is an incredibly rare honour for a cricketer.

Richard Hadlee is the only Kiwi Knight, whereas in England in the last fifty years only Alastair Cook and Geoffrey Boycott have been knighted for their playing exploits (although Ian Botham was for charity work and Colin Cowdrey and Andrew Strauss were for cricket administration).

Today, two West Indian stars of yesteryear have been knighted for services to cricket.

Sir Clive Lloyd, legendary captain of the West Indies, who retired aged 42 as the ICC World Number 1 ranked batsman, has been honoured by the British government. He has lived for many decades at Cheadle Hulme on the outskirts of Manchester.

Meanwhile his legendary opener, Gordon Greenidge, has been knighted by the government of Barbados. Greenidge actually moved to Southampton in Hampshire in his teens and was eligible to play for England. In the early and mid-seventies he formed half of the greatest opening partnership of all-time, with Barry Richards at Hampshire. After Kerry Packer took charge of world cricket in 1977 he then formed a 14 year partnership with his fellow Bajan, Desmond Haynes, which was probably international cricket’s greatest ever partnership.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Greatest cricket captain ever after Sir Douglas Jardine.

Also one of the flashiest opening batsmen of all time. I will only ever put Sehwag over him in terms of pure batting carnage.

 

[Captain caveman]

Greatest cricket captain ever after Sir Douglas Jardine.

Also one of the flashiest opening batsmen of all time. I will only ever put Sehwag over him in terms of pure batting carnage.

Many experts have said gordon greenidge would have been the greatest batsman.of his era, if there was not a certain sir Vivian Richards.
Sehwag is not even in the same league.

 

[Junaids]

Many experts have said gordon greenidge would have been the greatest batsman.of his era, if there was not a certain sir Vivian Richards.
Sehwag is not even in the same league.

I will never forget Sir Gordon’s 214 not out at The Oval in 1984, which set up the Blackwash.

England DECLARED an hour into Day 5 when they reached 300, the highest score of the match so far.

They set the West Indies an impossible 341 to win in a theoretical 72 overs. The England attack featured two ATG’s, Botham and Willis.

Sir Gordon then scored 214 not out and set up a 9 wicket victory in just 66 overs.

It was just brutal, made Virender Sehwag look like Cheteshwar Pujara!

 

[Captain caveman]

I will never forget Sir Gordon’s 214 not out at The Oval in 1984, which set up the Blackwash.

England DECLARED an hour into Day 5 when they reached 300, the highest score of the match so far.

They set the West Indies an impossible 341 to win in a theoretical 72 overs. The England attack featured two ATG’s, Botham and Willis.

Sir Gordon then scored 214 not out and set up a 9 wicket victory in just 66 overs.

It was just brutal, made Virender Sehwag look like Cheyes teshwar Pujara!

Yes i saw this match as a kid, it was devastating, had seen nothing like it before, this was well before t20s and even odis, could not compare to this innings at the time.

 

[Robert]

I will never forget Sir Gordon’s 214 not out at The Oval in 1984, which set up the Blackwash.

England DECLARED an hour into Day 5 when they reached 300, the highest score of the match so far.

They set the West Indies an impossible 341 to win in a theoretical 72 overs. The England attack featured two ATG’s, Botham and Willis.

Sir Gordon then scored 214 not out and set up a 9 wicket victory in just 66 overs.

It was just brutal, made Virender Sehwag look like Cheteshwar Pujara!

I remember it well. The wicket had gone totally flat and GG smashed a creaking Willis, an exhausted Botham and green Pringle and Foster.

Then he did it again two tests later!