Court grants Engr Muhammad Ali Mirza bail in blasphemy case [Update@post105]

[DeadlyVenom]

JHELUM (Dunya News) - Renowned religious scholar Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza has been arrested by City Police Jhelum under Section 3 of the Maintenance of Public Order (MPO).

According to details, Mirza was taken into custody from his academy in Jhelum and later shifted to jail.

Sources revealed that the arrest followed applications submitted by various religious groups against him, while delegations of clerics also held meetings with district authorities demanding his arrest.

Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza, with 3.1 million YouTube subscribers, is known for his online lectures on social and religious issues. His outspoken style has frequently stirred controversy.

This is not his first arrest. In May 2020, Jhelum police detained him under Section 153-A of the Pakistan Penal Code after a controversial lecture resurfaced online. He was released two days later on court orders.

Religious scholar Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza arrested in Jhelum

Mirza was taken into custody from his academy in Jhelum and later shifted to jail

dunyanews.tv

many of the traditional maulanas and "scholars" have been after him for a long time, I wonder what prompted the arrest this time.

 

[BouncerGuy]

many of the traditional maulanas and "scholars" have been after him for a long time, I wonder what prompted the arrest this time.

Obviously, Engineer Sahab went after their firqas so it was always on the cards.

 

[Bewal Express]

They are trying to make into a hero. The guy has changed his views too often and sold himself to the Junta to become a hero. The other thing to notice is the munafiqism of these maulvis. The TLP, JUI-F and JI have not peeped a word.

 

[Ball Blazer]

HE is one of the finest scholars, who just do not only narrate stories unlike most of the ulamas, but back them in real time with authentic ahadith books in front of the people. Some people could not digest truth against their school of thoughts, so it was expected.

 

[Stewie]

Technically, he is not a scholar and I don't even think he likes to be called one. He tries to provide simplified and firqa and "baba" free take on Islam.

He has his flaws like every one else but I like some of the stuff he says.

 

[Justcrazy]

He was attacked four times before.

What he said is that the Christians believe prophet Muhammad to be Dajjal ( Liar ) , what is wrong in that ? They do not accept him to be a true prophet That is why they are Christians ! what is wrong in that statement I cannot understand.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He was attacked four times before.

What he said is that the Christians believe prophet Muhammad to be Dajjal ( Liar ) , what is wrong in that ? They do not accept him to be a true prophet That is why they are Christians ! what is wrong in that statement I cannot understand.

It is more serious this time.

This is a major plot hatched by so called ulema and YouTubers etc that he has badly exposed.

You have to remember that majority of so called religious scholars in Pakistan are not very bright. Becoming Molvi was only option to them, so they cant understand nuance of arguments, plus when their roti gets affected and their scams exposed they will try anything to protect it.

 

[Bewal Express]

It is more serious this time.

This is a major plot hatched by so called ulema and YouTubers etc that he has badly exposed.

You have to remember that majority of so called religious scholars in Pakistan are not very bright. Becoming Molvi was only option to them, so they cant understand nuance of arguments, plus when their roti gets affected and their scams exposed they will try anything to protect it.

Dont worry he will be OK. He is a Big fan of Munir, and as Munir told Sohail Warraich, he can give Mafi in his role as a contemporary deity.

 

[ElRaja]

im not religious, but having heard a bit of his stuff i appreciate the veracity with which he attacks the pir baba culture of pakistan. i know enough of religion to know islam doesnt require intermediaries, yet in pakistan every second person believes unflinchingly in random maulvis and babas. given the influence of islam in pakistan, anything that can take away the influence of these charlatains pirs and holy men can only be commended.

 

[IronShield]

im not religious, but having heard a bit of his stuff i appreciate the veracity with which he attacks the pir baba culture of pakistan. i know enough of religion to know islam doesnt require intermediaries, yet in pakistan every second person believes unflinchingly in random maulvis and babas. given the influence of islam in pakistan, anything that can take away the influence of these charlatains pirs and holy men can only be commended.

But these days... belief in one Hazrat Mualana Asim Munir is a must in Pakistan

 

[LordJames]

But these days... belief in one Hazrat Mualana Asim Munir is a must in Pakistan

Asim Munir "Hafiz"
Faisal Naseer "Cheetah"
Yey Markhor Walay

@Bewal Express @Patriot @Justcrazy @DeadlyVenom

 

[LordJames]

But these days... belief in one Hazrat Mualana Asim Munir is a must in Pakistan

Kal Aurangzeb Suna Tha
Aaj Asim Munir

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Dont worry he will be OK. He is a Big fan of Munir, and as Munir told Sohail Warraich, he can give Mafi in his role as a contemporary deity.

Hopefully General let's the Engineer loose

 

[Bewal Express]

Hopefully General let's the Engineer loose

The Engineer was happy for IK and others to be beaten to pulp. Going by his own standards he should be ready to face the Music. However, I hope he gets a fair chance to clear his name

 

[Major]

Wonder if that karachi guy Mufti Tariq masood had soething behind this

 

[LordJames]

JHELUM (Dunya News) - Renowned religious scholar Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza has been arrested by City Police Jhelum under Section 3 of the Maintenance of Public Order (MPO).

According to details, Mirza was taken into custody from his academy in Jhelum and later shifted to jail.

Sources revealed that the arrest followed applications submitted by various religious groups against him, while delegations of clerics also held meetings with district authorities demanding his arrest.

Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza, with 3.1 million YouTube subscribers, is known for his online lectures on social and religious issues. His outspoken style has frequently stirred controversy.

This is not his first arrest. In May 2020, Jhelum police detained him under Section 153-A of the Pakistan Penal Code after a controversial lecture resurfaced online. He was released two days later on court orders.

Religious scholar Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza arrested in Jhelum

Mirza was taken into custody from his academy in Jhelum and later shifted to jail

dunyanews.tv

many of the traditional maulanas and "scholars" have been after him for a long time, I wonder what prompted the arrest this time.

Engineer has been booked under 295-C (Blasphemy Law)

Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza booked under section 295-C

Engineer Muhammad Ali was detained yesterday under the MPO 3

dunyanews.tv

Ridiculous!!! This Blasphemy law has got to go from Pakistan

 

[sweep_shot]

What did Mirza say that caused his arrest?

 

[LordJames]

What did Mirza say that caused his arrest?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1960215341893927113

He clearly states that Christians believe Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) to be Dajjal so there is an uproar in Pakistan and clarification from Christians that this is incorrect and an accusation upon them.

 

[sweep_shot]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1960215341893927113

He clearly states that Christians believe Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) to be Dajjal so there is an uproar in Pakistan and clarification from Christians that this is incorrect and an accusation upon them.

I see.

I think preachers should be vigilant in desi countries. Many desis are very emotional and they may misunderstand statements. Better to speak about mainstream stuff.

 

[BouncerGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1960215341893927113

He clearly states that Christians believe Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) to be Dajjal so there is an uproar in Pakistan and clarification from Christians that this is incorrect and an accusation upon them.

That is not the whole context... people need to see the whole video to know actually what he said...

These mulllahs have a habit of twisting words for thier own benefit.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The Engineer was happy for IK and others to be beaten to pulp. Going by his own standards he should be ready to face the Music. However, I hope he gets a fair chance to clear his name

I don't really care what the religious scholars say about politics. They don't know what they are talking about and are best ignored.

However he has done a good job combatting the baba pit culture and trying to reduce sectarianism between Sunni Shia.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1960215341893927113

He clearly states that Christians believe Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) to be Dajjal so there is an uproar in Pakistan and clarification from Christians that this is incorrect and an accusation upon them.

He shouldn't be detained of course but in a crazy country like Pakistan one must be very cautious with their choice of words. These words while correct academically could be twisted against engineer himself or be used in anti Christian violence by crazy people.

 

[Bewal Express]

I don't really care what the religious scholars say about politics. They don't know what they are talking about and are best ignored.

However he has done a good job combatting the baba pit culture and trying to reduce sectarianism between Sunni Shia.

I dont watch him so I don't know but I have seen clips of him flip on his support for Munir and murderous reign. After his sulaatkhari of these criminals, I am sure he will be ok

 

[Justcrazy]

Technically, he is not a scholar and I don't even think he likes to be called one. He tries to provide simplified and firqa and "baba" free take on Islam.

He has his flaws like every one else but I like some of the stuff he says.

I agree with you. The issue with us is that when we like a certain scholar or adhere to a sect we tend to become blind , and biased.

Engineer is a product of the same system , he is a good person , but nowadays I find he has become a little irritated and little more angry and rude. Maybe it is because of age.

 

[Ball Blazer]

so they did not arrest Tariq Masood when he publicly claimed there are mistakes in the Quran because Prophet/Sahaba were not educated? and arrested Engr Mirza on the basis of an incomplete video. Hypocrisy at peak

 

[IronShield]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1960215341893927113

He clearly states that Christians believe Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) to be Dajjal so there is an uproar in Pakistan and clarification from Christians that this is incorrect and an accusation upon them.

I have never heard any Christian say this ever. Not believing in the prophethood of Muhammad pbuh is not the same as labelling him Dajjal. These kind of statements are designed to inflame tensions and garner public profile for this idiot.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I have never heard any Christian say this ever. Not believing in the prophethood of Muhammad pbuh is not the same as labelling him Dajjal. These kind of statements are designed to inflame tensions and garner public profile for this idiot.

They call him false prophet but I agree with you that it's an unnecessary use of provocative language in a country like Pakistan

 

[LordJames]

so they did not arrest Tariq Masood when he publicly claimed there are mistakes in the Quran because Prophet/Sahaba were not educated? and arrested Engr Mirza on the basis of an incomplete video. Hypocrisy at peak

Mufti Tariq Masood apologized publicly.

I believe that Pakistan uses the "Blasphemy Law" prosecutions for political purposes. In Islam, there is no penalty on "Non-Muslims" denying the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) because they don't believe in him but his choice of words is defamation as Christians don't say what he uttered.

He made a mistake and should apologize and that should be it.

I agree with you. The issue with us is that when we like a certain scholar or adhere to a sect we tend to become blind , and biased.

Engineer is a product of the same system , he is a good person , but nowadays I find he has become a little irritated and little more angry and rude. Maybe it is because of age.

Agreed, he is doubling down and being stupid on something which he is clearly wrong on. Christians are insisting on this prosecution too because it is defamation and puts their lives in danger in Pakistan.

Its slip of the tongue, say that he misspoke and move on and close the matter.

I have never heard any Christian say this ever. Not believing in the prophethood of Muhammad pbuh is not the same as labelling him Dajjal. These kind of statements are designed to inflame tensions and garner public profile for this idiot.

Christians do not label Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) as "Anti-Christ" in their theology because Anti-Christ for them has not appeared while Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) passed away 1400 years ago.

The entire Trump administration and evangelicals are setting the scene for "Messiah" to fight against "Anti-Christ" but there is no mention of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) in the discussion at all.

Mirza doesn't know anything about Christian Theology and it is clear.

Christians simply do not accept Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) as a Prophet as per their religion and Islam does not ram it down their throats just like Muslims do accept Esa (Peace be upon Him) as "son of god" as per Islam

They call him false prophet but I agree with you that it's an unnecessary use of provocative language in a country like Pakistan

Agreed.

He misspoke and should apologize just like others have before him but he is doubling down and insisting on this usage of phrase.

 

[Justcrazy]

I have never heard any Christian say this ever. Not believing in the prophethood of Muhammad pbuh is not the same as labelling him Dajjal. These kind of statements are designed to inflame tensions and garner public profile for this idiot.

How are both different things ?

Brother Musalima claimed to be a prophet , why do you all call him dajjal ? Just say i do not believe him to be prophet.

Muhammad SAW claimed to be prophet , the Christians deny that , that means they are saying Muhammad SAW is lying. If they believed him to be truthful , then how is the message is a lie? It's a contradiction.

 

[Justcrazy]

@LordJames Just to clarify your post 28 , Mirza did not say Christians call Muhammad SAW as anti Christ , he said they call Muhammad SAW a liar.

he said dajjal , not al Dajjal.

 

[LordJames]

How are both different things ?

Brother Musalima claimed to be a prophet , why do you all call him dajjal ? Just say i do not believe him to be prophet.

Muhammad SAW claimed to be prophet , the Christians deny that , that means they are saying Muhammad SAW is lying. If they believed him to be truthful , then how is the message is a lie? It's a contradiction.

We do not call Musalama "Dajjal" but we call him Al-Kadhab (The Liar). The narrations about false prophets mention "Liars" and then "Dajjal"

Kadhab and Dajjal are different concepts.

@LordJames Just to clarify your post 28 , Mirza did not say Christians call Muhammad SAW as anti Christ , he said they call Muhammad SAW a liar.

he said dajjal , not al Dajjal.

He said "Dajjal" which is a specific term with specific connotations in Pakistan and its culture and Christians or anybody else do not believe this.

In Arabic and Urdu during ordinary conversation "Al-Dajjal" is not used but "Dajjal" and connotation is pretty clear.

As I said, he can play with words and play games OR simply say "Wrong choice of words" Apologize and move on​

 

[Justcrazy]

We do not call Musalama "Dajjal" but we call him Al-Kadhab (The Liar). The narrations about false prophets mention "Liars" and then "Dajjal"

Kadhab and Dajjal are different concepts.

He said "Dajjal" which is a specific term with specific connotations in Pakistan and its culture and Christians or anybody else do not believe this.

In Arabic and Urdu during ordinary conversation "Al-Dajjal" is not used but "Dajjal" and connotation is pretty clear.

As I said, he can play with words and play games OR simply say "Wrong choice of words" Apologize and move on​

Musalima is part of the hadeeth which says there will be 30 dajjals . probably the first claim prophet hood.

The issue is simple , when someone becomes famous the others get jealous and envious. The situation in Pakistan is very bad , these people do not understand that a fatwa is an opinion , not a revelation. All these Moulvis who are giving fatwas , want to agitate the brainwashed people and kill others. This has been going on for a long long time.

 

[Justcrazy]

It is more serious this time.

This is a major plot hatched by so called ulema and YouTubers etc that he has badly exposed.

You have to remember that majority of so called religious scholars in Pakistan are not very bright. Becoming Molvi was only option to them, so they cant understand nuance of arguments, plus when their roti gets affected and their scams exposed they will try anything to protect it.

The sad thing is that , in a family the most dull child is sent to become a Moulvi in Indo pak area. That is why you see these clowns on the mimbars jumping around and calling others kafirs . Trust me , they are not defending or talking about Islam , there whole life is devoted to defending there sect at any cost , even if it means lying , making absurd tawils etc.

I swear by Allah , when I hear these people lying blatantly from mimbar , I feel afraid , how can people who are so called scholars can be so obstinate to lie blatantly about Islam publically !

 

[LordJames]

Musalima is part of the hadeeth which says there will be 30 dajjals . probably the first claim prophet hood.

The issue is simple , when someone becomes famous the others get jealous and envious. The situation in Pakistan is very bad , these people do not understand that a fatwa is an opinion , not a revelation. All these Moulvis who are giving fatwas , want to agitate the brainwashed people and kill others. This has been going on for a long long time.

The term in Arabic or Urdu for Musalama is "Kathaab (liar)" i.e. مسيلمة الكذاب and I think that you know that.

قصة مُسَيْلِمَة الْكَذَّاب مع النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم​

All mentions in Islamic Academic research call him that.

If anything Dajaal is then added as an adjective but after Kathaab (liar) from some narrations but hardly used in normal parlance.

Ibn Abbas (RA) called him that in Saheeh Bukhari and did not call him "Dajjal"...

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْيَمَانِ، أَخْبَرَنَا شُعَيْبٌ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي حُسَيْنٍ، حَدَّثَنَا نَافِعُ بْنُ جُبَيْرٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ قَالَ قَدِمَ مُسَيْلِمَةُ الْكَذَّابُ عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَجَعَلَ يَقُولُ إِنْ جَعَلَ لِي مُحَمَّدٌ الأَمْرَ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ تَبِعْتُهُ‏.‏ وَقَدِمَهَا فِي بَشَرٍ كَثِيرٍ مِنْ قَوْمِهِ، فَأَقْبَلَ إِلَيْهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَمَعَهُ ثَابِتُ بْنُ قَيْسِ بْنِ شَمَّاسٍ، وَفِي يَدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قِطْعَةُ جَرِيدٍ، حَتَّى وَقَفَ عَلَى مُسَيْلِمَةَ فِي أَصْحَابِهِ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ لَوْ سَأَلْتَنِي هَذِهِ الْقِطْعَةَ مَا أَعْطَيْتُكَهَا، وَلَنْ تَعْدُوَ أَمْرَ اللَّهِ فِيكَ، وَلَئِنْ أَدْبَرْتَ لَيَعْقِرَنَّكَ اللَّهُ، وَإِنِّي لأَرَاكَ الَّذِي أُرِيتُ فِيكَ مَا رَأَيْتُ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَأَخْبَرَنِي أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ بَيْنَمَا أَنَا نَائِمٌ رَأَيْتُ فِي يَدَىَّ سِوَارَيْنِ مِنْ ذَهَبٍ، فَأَهَمَّنِي شَأْنُهُمَا، فَأُوحِيَ إِلَىَّ فِي الْمَنَامِ أَنِ انْفُخْهُمَا، فَنَفَخْتُهُمَا فَطَارَا فَأَوَّلْتُهُمَا كَذَّابَيْنِ يَخْرُجَانِ بَعْدِي ‏"‏‏.‏ فَكَانَ أَحَدُهُمَا الْعَنْسِيَّ وَالآخَرُ مُسَيْلِمَةَ الْكَذَّابَ صَاحِبَ الْيَمَامَةِ‏.‏
​

But using standard Islamic terminology from authentic sources wouldn't create controversy and that wouldn't translate into YouTube views so I understand why Mirza does what he does... Also apologizing for a slip of the tongue would make Mirza human and his "fans" can't allow a demigod to be relegated to the reality of mere humans.

1. For some Pakistanis, Mirza is a pantheon of knowledge
2. For others, Mirza is challenging status-quo of Ulama

Reality is that he is not presenting anything new or radical and his words and presentation are not error proof.

Mirza has seen the "Market" and cashed in while others see their income being impacted.

The sad thing is that , in a family the most dull child is sent to become a Moulvi in Indo pak area. That is why you see these clowns on the mimbars jumping around and calling others kafirs . Trust me , they are not defending or talking about Islam , there whole life is devoted to defending there sect at any cost , even if it means lying , making absurd tawils etc.

I swear by Allah , when I hear these people lying blatantly from mimbar , I feel afraid , how can people who are so called scholars can be so obstinate to lie blatantly about Islam publically !

Yes that's sad and I also see that.

People defend their sects and leaders above Islam, same can be seen here in the West.

 

[Bewal Express]

That is not the whole context... people need to see the whole video to know actually what he said...

These mulllahs have a habit of twisting words for thier own benefit.

Our Mullahs are corrupt to the core.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We do not call Musalama "Dajjal" but we call him Al-Kadhab (The Liar). The narrations about false prophets mention "Liars" and then "Dajjal"

Kadhab and Dajjal are different concepts.

He said "Dajjal" which is a specific term with specific connotations in Pakistan and its culture and Christians or anybody else do not believe this.

In Arabic and Urdu during ordinary conversation "Al-Dajjal" is not used but "Dajjal" and connotation is pretty clear.

As I said, he can play with words and play games OR simply say "Wrong choice of words" Apologize and move on​

In academic terms he is correct. Dajjal merely means deciever. The full name of what we call "Dajjal" is "maseeh ul dajjal", the deceitful messiah or false messiah, Isa (AS) is the truthful messiah and thats where the link is to term Anti-Christ.

So he has used the academic definition instead and now how the word is understood in Pakistan as you have stated.

By using it like this he probably indirectly put christians in the firing line.

 

[Justcrazy]

@LordJames I was talking about the 30 dajjal hadeeth. There the word dajjal is mentioned. Are you saying Musalima is not part of those 30 ?

 

[Justcrazy]

In academic terms he is correct. Dajjal merely means deciever. The full name of what we call "Dajjal" is "maseeh ul dajjal", the deceitful messiah or false messiah, Isa (AS) is the truthful messiah and thats where the link is to term Anti-Christ.

So he has used the academic definition instead and now how the word is understood in Pakistan as you have stated.

By using it like this he probably indirectly put christians in the firing line.

The thing to understand here is that what you expect Christians to do in a place like Pakistan? It is natural that they will deny Mirza statement , I do not blame them , if i was there as a Christian I would also do that. In Pakistan one Muslim is not safe from other , how can a Christian say his true belief?

In Pakistan there are Moulvis who say that if you say use " Juta " instead of nalain shareef it is an insult !

The government needs to take strong and firm action. No matter what the judiciary should be respected and the judge should decide these matters. No Moulvi has the authority to call others as Kafirs . Yes you can disagree with others , present your evidence that is it.

 

[LordJames]

@LordJames I was talking about the 30 dajjal hadeeth. There the word dajjal is mentioned. Are you saying Musalima is not part of those 30 ?

Dear Brother,

Making two points and feel free to correct me:

1. Musalima is known as "Kaddaab (liar) in title and also in Hadeeth, some version add "Dajjal" as well
2. @DeadlyVenom is saying exactly what I meant

In Arabic, I don't know anyone who calls him Musalama "Dajjal" FIRST before calling him Musalama "Kaddaab"

When Dajjal is used as a standalone term in Urdu, Arabic, Persian, Turkce etc it is meant as "Al-Masih ud-Dajjal" so Mirza is dead wrong with equating Dajjal to Kadaab, of course Dajjal is also a Kaddab (and vice versa can also be true)

In academic terms he is correct. Dajjal merely means deciever. The full name of what we call "Dajjal" is "maseeh ul dajjal", the deceitful messiah or false messiah, Isa (AS) is the truthful messiah and thats where the link is to term Anti-Christ.

So he has used the academic definition instead and now how the word is understood in Pakistan as you have stated.

By using it like this he probably indirectly put christians in the firing line.

The thing to understand here is that what you expect Christians to do in a place like Pakistan? It is natural that they will deny Mirza statement , I do not blame them , if i was there as a Christian I would also do that. In Pakistan one Muslim is not safe from other , how can a Christian say his true belief?

In Pakistan there are Moulvis who say that if you say use " Juta " instead of nalain shareef it is an insult !

The government needs to take strong and firm action. No matter what the judiciary should be respected and the judge should decide these matters. No Moulvi has the authority to call others as Kafirs . Yes you can disagree with others , present your evidence that is it.

Islam does not equal Pakistan!

Don't care what Maulvees say or don't say in Pakistan about Islamic terminologies and definitions. But "Dajjal" is not a synonym for "liar" in Islam and not used interchangeably although Dajjal is a liar (and vice versa).

Mirza shouldn't be tried under 295C and it is absolute nonsense. Mirza has a big mouth, makes mistakes and creates controversy probably for YouTube views but he is a Muslim!

 

[FollowThru]

Not a man to be trusted. Because his references are frequently fake and for circumstantial convenience he routinely switches to exact opposite explanation of same reference.

Wrongs of Pir and Babas doesn't mean anyone against them in himself is righteous.

I would rank Ali Mirza a youtuber smart enough for playing to gallery but not a scholar or religious man. No solid ground to rank him a scholar.

 

[Justcrazy]

Not a man to be trusted. Because his references are frequently fake and for circumstantial convenience he routinely switches to exact opposite explanation of same reference.

Wrongs of Pir and Babas doesn't mean anyone against them in himself is righteous.

I would rank Ali Mirza a youtuber smart enough for playing to gallery but not a scholar or religious man. No solid ground to rank him a scholar.

Can you show me a few references he said were wrong ?

 

[FollowThru]

Can you show me a few references he said were wrong ?

After he was exposed years ago, I never thought it's important to remember tiny details about a youtuber.

Haven't given much importance to it in recent months but there is a youtube campaign by Maulana Imran Safdar where he regularly exposes fake references and U-turns of Ali Mirza.

 

[Stewie]

I have never heard any Christian say this ever. Not believing in the prophethood of Muhammad pbuh is not the same as labelling him Dajjal. These kind of statements are designed to inflame tensions and garner public profile for this idiot.

John of Damascus first said it back in the 8th century and yes there is a Christian school of thought that believes this concept. You should do your research.

Typically modern day "Christians" dont even know much about Jesus, that he was a Jew and was not white. So its fair to say they don't even know much about who Muhammed PBUH is or are even familiar fully with the concept of anti-christ.

 

[Justcrazy]

After he was exposed years ago, I never thought it's important to remember tiny details about a youtuber.

Haven't given much importance to it in recent months but there is a youtube campaign by Maulana Imran Safdar where he regularly exposes fake references and U-turns of Ali Mirza.

Brother , who is he even ? By name I think he is a deobandi. Am I right ?

 

[FollowThru]

Brother , who is he even ? By name I think he is a deobandi. Am I right ?

That I don't know, because devil is in details.

You asked about fake references made by Ali Mirza and I mentioned Imran Safdar campaign. Its for you to decide if you are honesty looking, or not, for flaws of Ali Mirza.

 

[LordJames]

Brother , who is he even ? By name I think he is a deobandi. Am I right ?​

There is something which I don't understand.

Why does Mirza keeps tagging people with names like "Deobandi" when a person expressly clearly and emphatically denies it, isn't this against authentic Sunnah to call someone something which they are not? A clear example is Mufti Taqi Usmani, since 1965 that I know of he has not only called him Deobandi but forbidden it from a sectarian point of view. There are dozens of speeches, writings and articles where he makes this point since the 1960s.

Why does he do that?

​

 

[LordJames]

I remember this talk attended by dozens of British Scholars and around 8 minutes Mufti Rafi Usmani categorically denies using anything other then "Muslim" as identification and again and again forbids the term "Deobandi" as a sectarian identity

Yet Mirza keeps calling him that, don't know why?

 

[Justcrazy]

That I don't know, because devil is in details.

You asked about fake references made by Ali Mirza and I mentioned Imran Safdar campaign. Its for you to decide if you are honesty looking, or not, for flaws of Ali Mirza.

So tomorrow you are talking to a Christian about Islam , and you ask him what wrong he found in Islam , and he gives you a name " David Woods "

Do you think that will prove Islam is wrong ?

This is exactly what you are doing.

When I asked you that question , what I meant is that you yourself have heard his lecture and have objection to something. What you are saying is hear say evidence.

There is nothing in criticizing anyone , but for that we need to study or hear that person and then we make out point.
I hope you understand.

 

[FollowThru]

So tomorrow you are talking to a Christian about Islam , and you ask him what wrong he found in Islam , and he gives you a name " David Woods "

Do you think that will prove Islam is wrong ?

This is exactly what you are doing.

When I asked you that question , what I meant is that you yourself have heard his lecture and have objection to something. What you are saying is hear say evidence.

There is nothing in criticizing anyone , but for that we need to study or hear that person and then we make out point.
I hope you understand.

My brain is trained to not memorize irrelevant stuff.

If you so want to defend Ali Mirza, can you justify why he says Prophets would be jealous of his large following, or when he says he and his followers earn more reward than Sahabas of Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

And in 2025 if you can't search and want me to send you quote specific links, ask for something important. From my POV you can assess I take Ali Mirza as an irrelevant just another youtuber and not someone important.

 

[Justcrazy]

My brain is trained to not memorize irrelevant stuff.

If you so want to defend Ali Mirza, can you justify why he says Prophets would be jealous of his large following, or when he says he and his followers earn more reward than Sahabas of Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

And in 2025 if you can't search and want me to send you quote specific links, ask for something important. From my POV you can assess I take Ali Mirza as an irrelevant just another youtuber and not someone important.

I am not defending anyone here , but I need to see evidence before arriving at a decision. Asking for evidence is not wrong. That is what the Quran says , to verify information before passing it forward.

If you have nothing specific , you can say that i do not have any evidence , but that is my belief that this man is a liar.

 

[LordJames]

So tomorrow you are talking to a Christian about Islam , and you ask him what wrong he found in Islam , and he gives you a name " David Woods "

Do you think that will prove Islam is wrong ?

This is exactly what you are doing.

When I asked you that question , what I meant is that you yourself have heard his lecture and have objection to something. What you are saying is hear say evidence.

There is nothing in criticizing anyone , but for that we need to study or hear that person and then we make out point.
I hope you understand.

Wrong application of Quranic principle here:

I am not defending anyone here , but I need to see evidence before arriving at a decision. Asking for evidence is not wrong. That is what the Quran says , to verify information before passing it forward.

If you have nothing specific , you can say that i do not have any evidence , but that is my belief that this man is a liar.

The Christian Missionaries are not reliable and their intentions are suspect so Allah Ta'ala tells us to be suspicious outright

[49;6] O believers, if an evildoer brings you any news, verify ˹it˺ so you do not harm people unknowingly, becoming regretful for what you have done.

A "Deobandi" is not an evildoer in the same category as "Christian Missionaries" but a Muslim so your default would be to trust the person unless proven to be a liar!

I think that your approach is wrong about fellow Muslims.

1. Non-Muslim: Suspect and always verify
2. Deobandi (or whatever Muslim): Trust until proven to be a liar

This labeling and categorization of Muslims is against the Qur'aan and Sunnah! In the case of Maulana Imran Safdar you look at the evidence what he is presenting against Mirza

Maulana Muhammad Imran Safdar

بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم اس چینل پر دینی اصلاحی علمی تحقیقی مضامین پر مشتمل ویڈیوز اپلوڈ کی جائیں گی ، بالخصوص انجینئر محمد علی مرزا جہلمی کے شبہات کا علمی جائزہ پیش کیا جائے گا ، آپ سے گزارش ہے کہ زیادہ سے زیادہ لوگوں تک اس چینل کی آواز پہنچائیں تاکہ سادہ لوح لوگ اس فتنے سے محفوظ رہ سکیں دعاؤں...

www.youtube.com

Maulana Imran Safdar and Mirza are both Muslims so we look at the evidence and one doesn't get preferential treatment over the other so Mirza is neither automatically right nor automatically incorrect and same for Maulana Imran Safdar.

If you have some issues with "Deobandees" by default then you have a problem and not anyone else.

There is no such thing as a "Deobandi" but just using what you keep saying as an example.

 

[Justcrazy]

Wrong application of Quranic principle here:



The Christian Missionaries are not reliable and their intentions are suspect so Allah Ta'ala tells us to be suspicious outright

[49;6] O believers, if an evildoer brings you any news, verify ˹it˺ so you do not harm people unknowingly, becoming regretful for what you have done.

A "Deobandi" is not an evildoer in the same category as "Christian Missionaries" but a Muslim so your default would be to trust the person unless proven to be a liar!

I think that your approach is wrong about fellow Muslims.

1. Non-Muslim: Suspect and always verify
2. Deobandi (or whatever Muslim): Trust until proven to be a liar

This labeling and categorization of Muslims is against the Qur'aan and Sunnah! In the case of Maulana Imran Safdar you look at the evidence what he is presenting against Mirza

Maulana Muhammad Imran Safdar

بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم اس چینل پر دینی اصلاحی علمی تحقیقی مضامین پر مشتمل ویڈیوز اپلوڈ کی جائیں گی ، بالخصوص انجینئر محمد علی مرزا جہلمی کے شبہات کا علمی جائزہ پیش کیا جائے گا ، آپ سے گزارش ہے کہ زیادہ سے زیادہ لوگوں تک اس چینل کی آواز پہنچائیں تاکہ سادہ لوح لوگ اس فتنے سے محفوظ رہ سکیں دعاؤں...

www.youtube.com

Maulana Imran Safdar and Mirza are both Muslims so we look at the evidence and one doesn't get preferential treatment over the other so Mirza is neither automatically right nor automatically incorrect and same for Maulana Imran Safdar.

If you have some issues with "Deobandees" by default then you have a problem and not anyone else.

There is no such thing as a "Deobandi" but just using what you keep saying as an example.

Yes , it is evil doer , but how I know that person is right or wrong ? I do not know the person. To be honest i never heard about him.

I do not trust them , because they do not trust each other.

I would have looked at Mr Imran but he is not the addressing me , I will naturally ask the person addressing me. I cannot be watching to whole series of videos like that. Its always better to point out that here.

The Deobandis call themselves with that name.

 

[LordJames]

Yes , it is evil doer , but how I know that person is right or wrong ? I do not know the person. To be honest i never heard about him.

I do not trust them , because they do not trust each other.

I would have looked at Mr Imran but he is not the addressing me , I will naturally ask the person addressing me. I cannot be watching to whole series of videos like that. Its always better to point out that here.

The Deobandis call themselves with that name.

Who is "Mr Imran"?

 

[FollowThru]

Yes , it is evil doer , but how I know that person is right or wrong ? I do not know the person. To be honest i never heard about him.

I do not trust them , because they do not trust each other.

I would have looked at Mr Imran but he is not the addressing me , I will naturally ask the person addressing me. I cannot be watching to whole series of videos like that. Its always better to point out that here.

The Deobandis call themselves with that name.

And I gave you two sentences used by Ali Mirza.

If you care enough to ask for references/quotes, you should tell whats your opinion about these two sentences of Ali Mirza.

 

[Justcrazy]

And I gave you two sentences used by Ali Mirza.

If you care enough to ask for references/quotes, you should tell whats your opinion about these two sentences of Ali Mirza.

I ask you one simple question , answer me honestly . Did you hear the lecture in which he said those two sentences?

He may be wrong , everyone makes mistakes . no one is god. But my point here is not to defend or defame anyone. My point is to educate people that we should not arrive at conclusions without knowing the exact thing.

For example tomorrow if I tell you that in Quran it says , " do not come near prayers ' ..... that is right but out of context . Quran says not to come near prayers when you are intoxicated.

That is why we need to see things in context.

 

[Justcrazy]

Who is "Mr Imran"?

I never heard of him , the above poster mentioned someone called Imran Safdar.

 

[LordJames]

I never heard of him , the above poster mentioned someone called Imran Safdar.

Maulana Muhammad Imran Safdar

This is his channel

Maulana Muhammad Imran Safdar

بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم اس چینل پر دینی اصلاحی علمی تحقیقی مضامین پر مشتمل ویڈیوز اپلوڈ کی جائیں گی ، بالخصوص انجینئر محمد علی مرزا جہلمی کے شبہات کا علمی جائزہ پیش کیا جائے گا ، آپ سے گزارش ہے کہ زیادہ سے زیادہ لوگوں تک اس چینل کی آواز پہنچائیں تاکہ سادہ لوح لوگ اس فتنے سے محفوظ رہ سکیں دعاؤں...

www.youtube.com

I also found out about this and he is showing issues of Mirza so if you want to know watch any of the videos.

 

[shaz619]

This faggot and his likeminded fans seem to be very Wahabi friendly, not to worry, the Saudis will have him out in no time.

 

[LordJames]

This faggot and his likeminded fans seem to be very Wahabi friendly, not to worry, the Saudis will have him out in no time.

Brother @shaz619

Mirza is a Muslim and although we may have disagreements lets not disrespect him.

Keep your weapons trained on Hindutva, plenty of shots to take!

 

[shaz619]

Brother @shaz619

Mirza is a Muslim and although we may have disagreements lets not disrespect him.

Keep your weapons trained on Hindutva, plenty of shots to take!

I haven’t really gotten into his Muslimness though

 

[shaz619]

My view, the vast majority of the Youtube scholars are all charlatans regardless of their religion.

If you want to find out more about religion, there are much better sources for your education.

 

[Justcrazy]

Maulana Muhammad Imran Safdar

This is his channel

Maulana Muhammad Imran Safdar

بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم اس چینل پر دینی اصلاحی علمی تحقیقی مضامین پر مشتمل ویڈیوز اپلوڈ کی جائیں گی ، بالخصوص انجینئر محمد علی مرزا جہلمی کے شبہات کا علمی جائزہ پیش کیا جائے گا ، آپ سے گزارش ہے کہ زیادہ سے زیادہ لوگوں تک اس چینل کی آواز پہنچائیں تاکہ سادہ لوح لوگ اس فتنے سے محفوظ رہ سکیں دعاؤں...

www.youtube.com

I also found out about this and he is showing issues of Mirza so if you want to know watch any of the videos.

He is not the only one , there are several others as well. But what is surprising here is that those sects which do not pray behind each other , have gathered together against a person who neither has a sect behind him , takes no money in the form of donations , does not have his own Masjid or even no books !!

They all call him insignificant yet have to use his name and picture on their videos to get views. They have problem who considers them as Muslims , but are friendly with those who will not pray behind them.

 

[Rafale Nidhal Fan]

My view, the vast majority of the Youtube scholars are all charlatans regardless of their religion.

If you want to find out more about religion, there are much better sources for your education.

being Youtuber alone means he loves money more than anything. He wants views and viewers to keep watching his stuff so he generates rupia. Earning money in the name of religion, how original.

 

[BouncerGuy]

My view, the vast majority of the Youtube scholars are all charlatans regardless of their religion.

If you want to find out more about religion, there are much better sources for your education.

They would be if they kept the QURAN AND the Hadith up top. If they are bringing some random books to prove their sect right, we don't care about them...

 

[Justcrazy]

They would be if they kept the QURAN AND the Hadith up top. If they are bringing some random books to prove their sect right, we don't care about them...

That is necessary , sects are governed by books of scholars. Have you ever seen any scholar going against the big Baba of there sect ?

 

[BouncerGuy]

That is necessary , sects are governed by books of scholars. Have you ever seen any scholar going against the big Baba of there sect ?

They can never go against them... they actually defend their wrong stuff as well.

 

[RidiculousMan]

My view, the vast majority of the Youtube scholars are all charlatans regardless of their religion.

If you want to find out more about religion, there are much better sources for your education.

Like for example?

 

[LordJames]

My view, the vast majority of the Youtube scholars are all charlatans regardless of their religion.

If you want to find out more about religion, there are much better sources for your education.

Amen to that, brother...

Not just religious scholars, scientists, Doctors, experts etc

All misleading people for money!

 

[shaz619]

Like for example?

You really think you can’t do better then this? You want to learn about Islam from a Youtuber with a degree in Mechanical Engineering?

How on earth did this charlatan even become a scholar in the religious or academic sense when it comes to his faith?

While we are at it, lets call all those with degrees in a STEM space scholars of Islam, I should make myself a scholar to, @DeadlyVenom want to start a Youtube channel?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You really think you can’t do better then this? You want to learn about Islam from a Youtuber with a degree in Mechanical Engineering?

How on earth did this charlatan even become a scholar in the religious or academic sense when it comes to his faith?

While we are at it, lets call all those with degrees in a STEM space scholars of Islam, I should make myself a scholar to, @DeadlyVenom want to start a Youtube channel?

Actually given our backgrounds if we were to apply ourself we could do a good job analyzing data, testing theories and trying to uncover facts.

And that's pretty much what Engineer has done. He hasn't styled himself as Maulana he calls himself Engineer. He was a student of religion who started to observe some of the deficiency in sects. Perhaps it was the STEM background that turned him against the Pir Baba culture.

Overall every speaker has pros and cons. But his pros - non sectarianism, non takfiri, non superstitious are valuable in Pakistan and his cons are not too impactful.

Don't dismiss him so easily. Him and Maulana Ishaq Sahib have done an amazing job combatting sectarianism.

If Engineers lack of traditional qualifications turns you against him but you are interested in some of his topics then perhaps you will enjoy Maulana Ishaq Sahib more.

 

[shaz619]

Actually given our backgrounds if we were to apply ourself we could do a good job analyzing data, testing theories and trying to uncover facts.

And that's pretty much what Engineer has done. He hasn't styled himself as Maulana he calls himself Engineer. He was a student of religion who started to observe some of the deficiency in sects. Perhaps it was the STEM background that turned him against the Pir Baba culture.

Overall every speaker has pros and cons. But his pros - non sectarianism, non takfiri, non superstitious are valuable in Pakistan and his cons are not too impactful.

Don't dismiss him so easily. Him and Maulana Ishaq Sahib have done an amazing job combatting sectarianism.

If Engineers lack of traditional qualifications turns you against him but you are interested in some of his topics then perhaps you will enjoy Maulana Ishaq Sahib more.

I do see where you are coming from & I value your opinion, but having that same background as him and you to, in my profession we really value specialists. So anybody and everybody shouldn’t be qualified to talk about a religion as complex as Islam, if he is serious, he should further his education by training to be a sheikh at Al-Azhar university etc or a similar institution, that way he can combine his background with the deeper studies of religious texts and bring more benefit to peope opposed to relying on raige bait for views and getting himself arrested, that automatically will have the opposite impact in Pakistan, the average Joe Blogs in his country probably look at him as the Devil, you need to work a bit more differently if the goal is to spread knowledge in his home country but he clearly has a global fanbase. It’s not just him but I don’t listen to other such individuals either unless they are an expert in the field.

 

[Justcrazy]

They can never go against them... they actually defend their wrong stuff as well.

So that means they are mere goalkeepers of there own sects , they are not defenders of Islam.
So , how do they want youth to respect them?

These people claim that Mirza is rude , have you seen them call him a plumber , junior Mirza etc ? Now if I call Ala Hadhrat as Kala Hadhrat , these same people will be angry with me. I am really sad to see the state in which Muslims are , I am sorry to say that majority naive Muslims have a serious issue of personality worship.

Truth always hurts , whether you are a shia , sunni , salafi , barelvi etc.

Unless you are unbiased , you will always be defending wrong things. The best thing is to accept the truth and move on .

 

[Justcrazy]

You really think you can’t do better then this? You want to learn about Islam from a Youtuber with a degree in Mechanical Engineering?

How on earth did this charlatan even become a scholar in the religious or academic sense when it comes to his faith?

While we are at it, lets call all those with degrees in a STEM space scholars of Islam, I should make myself a scholar to, @DeadlyVenom want to start a Youtube channel?

No , we will not learn from Mirza , we will learn from the books.

If tomorrow if a Kafir comes and tells me that Allah is ONE , we will accept that. If a Moulvi comes and tells alcohol is okay if taken in small amounts , we will reject him.

Thus we do not judge anything by who is saying , we judge by what he is saying.

By the way I am curious to know , which scholar you have in mind whom you are taking deen from ?

 

[shaz619]

No , we will not learn from Mirza , we will learn from the books.

If tomorrow if a Kafir comes and tells me that Allah is ONE , we will accept that. If a Moulvi comes and tells alcohol is okay if taken in small amounts , we will reject him.

Thus we do not judge anything by who is saying , we judge by what he is saying.

By the way I am curious to know , which scholar you have in mind whom you are taking deen from ?

Well at least you are not that daft and see the wisdom beyond Youtube education.

The most famous scholar in the middle east: Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab , I don’t know why you asked me this question but at least I’ve given the most popular response

 

[Justcrazy]

Actually given our backgrounds if we were to apply ourself we could do a good job analyzing data, testing theories and trying to uncover facts.

And that's pretty much what Engineer has done. He hasn't styled himself as Maulana he calls himself Engineer. He was a student of religion who started to observe some of the deficiency in sects. Perhaps it was the STEM background that turned him against the Pir Baba culture.

Overall every speaker has pros and cons. But his pros - non sectarianism, non takfiri, non superstitious are valuable in Pakistan and his cons are not too impactful.

Don't dismiss him so easily. Him and Maulana Ishaq Sahib have done an amazing job combatting sectarianism.

If Engineers lack of traditional qualifications turns you against him but you are interested in some of his topics then perhaps you will enjoy Maulana Ishaq Sahib more.

Maulana Ishaq was a great scholar. I have never seen anyone like him. Off course he can make mistakes , but he never lied or hid facts. If he was talking with barelvi , he would talk through Barelvi books , if with shias he will use their rijal books , if with ahle hadeeth he used books of Nawab Siddik Hassan etc. He never used books of opposition to refute points.

 

[Justcrazy]

Well at least you are not that daft and see the wisdom beyond Youtube education.

The most famous scholar in the middle east: Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab , I don’t know why you asked me this question but at least I’ve given the most popular response

Look the people use Youtube as a means , there is nothing wrong with that.

When I meant some scholar , I meant someone who is alive. Ibn Abd Wahhab is no longer alive. But I am sure if you tube was present at that time , he would have used that.

 

[RidiculousMan]

You really think you can’t do better then this? You want to learn about Islam from a Youtuber with a degree in Mechanical Engineering?

How on earth did this charlatan even become a scholar in the religious or academic sense when it comes to his faith?

While we are at it, lets call all those with degrees in a STEM space scholars of Islam, I should make myself a scholar to, @DeadlyVenom want to start a Youtube channel?

If I don't know any better. I'm asking you to tell me better. Who should I learn Islam from?

 

[RidiculousMan]

Maulana Ishaq

What a powerhouse he was. Way ahead of his time.

 

[shaz619]

Look the people use Youtube as a means , there is nothing wrong with that.

When I meant some scholar , I meant someone who is alive. Ibn Abd Wahhab is no longer alive. But I am sure if you tube was present at that time , he would have used that.

I am not actively learning from a specific scholar though I should consider it because it is valuable to have a personal tutor which is local to you so it’s something someone can find out personally; in my local mosque there’s a syrian sheikh they’ve hired recently who has studied at Al Azhar & I attend seminars when I get the time. However, I’ve committed to reading the English translation of the Quran, there’s a very simple / renowned text by Abdel Haleem which is recommended for beginners, I prefer that opposed to Youtube and I am trying to focus more on that then anything & it’s an on-going challenge. As for other scholars, I’ve not explored his work enough but Abdal Hakeem ul Murad is very respected in the UK and has set up a college in Cambridge with a specific curriculum to train Imam’s to help the community access the religion much better.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Ask your phew, unless he follows Youtube as well, the poster above just answered your question in any case

You have no-one to suggest then?