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Cricket Scotland to lose out on reported £700,000 bonus in funding after WC19 qualification failure

Abdullah719

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Scottish cricket faces an uncertain future on and off the field after failing to reach the 2019 World Cup, says chief executive Malcolm Cannon.

The Scots lost in controversial circumstances to the West Indies in a rain-affected match in Zimbabwe.

Cricket Scotland will now lose out on a reported £700,000 bonus in funding, while Cannon says he is "not sure" if some full-time contracts could be cut.

"It isn't just financial implications," Cannon told BBC Scotland.

"The opportunities to actually play cricket are reducing somewhat.

"The ICC don't offer many opportunities to us, and going into a World Cup year, the teams we would like to play become very busy. So finding a window in their schedule is very tough."

As things stand, Scotland have only a one-day international with England on 10 June and two Twenty20 matches against Pakistan - on 12 and 13 June - on their calendar this summer.

"There is no actual cost because these are monies we never assumed we would have," Cannon said.

"But it's an opportunities cost. Obviously it would have been a big bonus had we got there - and I don't mean player bonuses or payments.

"That would have enabled us to do other things and not just prepare for the World Cup, but also invest in grassroots cricket even more than we are doing currently."

Scotland had come through the four-match group phase unbeaten, opening with a win over Afghanistan and closing with a dramatic tie against Zimbabwe.

The Super Sixes stage began with victory against the United Arab Emirates, but a damaging defeat by Ireland meant their final qualifier against the West Indies was a must-win game.

Scotland were on 125-5, chasing down the Windies' total of 198 in Harare, when rain ended their pursuit, the Scots losing by five runs on the Duckworth-Lewis-Stern (DLS) method.

"It was in our hands and if we had been given that that opportunity to progress at the beginning, we would have bitten someone's hand off," Cannon said.

"We have been lobbying the ICC [International Cricket Council] for the last three years, telling them that [reducing the number of teams at the World Cup from 14 to 10] is a retrograde step for cricket globally.

"To reduce the number of teams - while World Cups in other sports are being increased - really sticks in the craw, especially given the fact that in mid-2017 they increased the number of full members from 10 to 12.

"So there are full-member countries missing out as well as what are deemed associate members like ourselves."

Zimbabwe will join West Indies, the two-time champions, in qualifying should they beat the UAE on Thursday, but no other associate nation will be at the World Cup.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/43499117
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One of the toughest days of my career, hard to find the words to describe it. I’m extremely proud of how <a href="https://twitter.com/CricketScotland?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CricketScotland</a> has represented themselves & associate cricket throughout, thanks for all the support. Congrats <a href="https://twitter.com/westindies?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@westindies</a> & all for the remainder of the tournament.</p>— Kyle Coetzer (@MeerGoose11) <a href="https://twitter.com/MeerGoose11/status/976773510109581313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Gutted doesn’t come close, we played some fantastic cricket this tournament. Pleased to hear the <a href="https://twitter.com/westindies?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@westindies</a> celebrating dramatically after a game in the balance settled by rain beating us the associate!! I’m a proud of <a href="https://twitter.com/CricketScotland?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CricketScotland</a> lads!Thanks for the support!!</p>— George Munsey (@GeorgeMunsey) <a href="https://twitter.com/GeorgeMunsey/status/976483664715505665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 21, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/ICC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ICC</a> I think you need to re-address your 'values' below, particularly your final point. <br><br>Your actions as a governing body are so misaligned with this it's frightening. <a href="https://t.co/yUyu9gTt4c">pic.twitter.com/yUyu9gTt4c</a></p>— Preston Mommsen (@PrestonMommsen) <a href="https://twitter.com/PrestonMommsen/status/976478218202034176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 21, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Gotta feel for the scots missing out on a World Cup place,got one stinker decision to&#55357;&#56904;was definitely theirs for the taking.</p>— Herschelle Gibbs (@hershybru) <a href="https://twitter.com/hershybru/status/976779018925166592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Can’t believe that, devastated for <a href="https://twitter.com/GraemeCremer?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GraemeCremer</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/ZimCricketv?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ZimCricketv</a> !!! They deserved as much as any team to make the World Cup&#55356;&#56831;&#55356;&#56828; How can the the <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ICC</a> justify a 10 team World Cup after the quality in this game & the tournament as a whole?!?! Come on <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ICC</a> !!!! We all deserve better!</p>— Kyle Coetzer (@MeerGoose11) <a href="https://twitter.com/MeerGoose11/status/976852804202565632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Another advert for associate cricket again today !!! <a href="https://twitter.com/EmiratesCricket?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@EmiratesCricket</a> showing that they are another ODI force! What direction are the <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ICC</a> going at the moment? Share the pie out & grow the game, how can you steal youngsters dreams/goals of playing cricket & in World Cups ?!?!</p>— Kyle Coetzer (@MeerGoose11) <a href="https://twitter.com/MeerGoose11/status/976862133353893890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Playing in the world cup on British soil would have been huge for Scotland in so many ways. Well done Umpire Paul Wilson - you were an average pro cricketer and you're an even worse umpire.
 
A farce.

An absolute joke.

The ICC, their pathetic policies and their down right crap financial structure is crippling international cricket.

The ICC financial model is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. These trashy policies such as having a 10 team World Cup are proving the ICC to be a cancer to international cricket.

The ICC have proven time and time again to be the biggest obstacle to the growth of cricket on a global scale.

Reducing the opportunities available to the smaller teams and gradually cutting the funding they receive over the years, whilst continueing to line pockets of the “big team” has proved fatal to the growth of cricket around the world.

Why would anyone in an associate Cricket nation care about Cricket, when the people who are running the game do not care about them & do not care about the sport. All the ICC is interested is the bank balance and the fact that they have the audacticity to say they are committed to the “global game” is absolutely sickening.

Bunch of selfish, useless idiots.
 
Can feel for all teams which miss out on qualifications. Happens to so many teams across sports when they come close but can't quite make it to the WC of that sport. As an Indian fan, have had those experiences in Hockey and Lawn Tennis.

But hey thats not the end of the world. Get up again and make a fresh start. These teams should take it as a challenge and improve further, beat the main nations when they play them to show to ICC how wrong they were.
 
Can feel for all teams which miss out on qualifications. Happens to so many teams across sports when they come close but can't quite make it to the WC of that sport. As an Indian fan, have had those experiences in Hockey and Lawn Tennis.

But hey thats not the end of the world. Get up again and make a fresh start. These teams should take it as a challenge and improve further, beat the main nations when they play them to show to ICC how wrong they were.

Agree, these countries are not poor ones in terms of economy, let the Govt. invest if they really care to be part of big boys.
 
Agree, these countries are not poor ones in terms of economy, let the Govt. invest if they really care to be part of big boys.

Can feel for all teams which miss out on qualifications. Happens to so many teams across sports when they come close but can't quite make it to the WC of that sport. As an Indian fan, have had those experiences in Hockey and Lawn Tennis.

But hey thats not the end of the world. Get up again and make a fresh start. These teams should take it as a challenge and improve further, beat the main nations when they play them to show to ICC how wrong they were.

Maybe they should get the ICC to change the rules like India did after you didn't get out of the group stage in 2007.
 
Can feel for all teams which miss out on qualifications. Happens to so many teams across sports when they come close but can't quite make it to the WC of that sport. As an Indian fan, have had those experiences in Hockey and Lawn Tennis.

But hey thats not the end of the world. Get up again and make a fresh start. These teams should take it as a challenge and improve further, beat the main nations when they play them to show to ICC how wrong they were.

typical hypocrites

Why didnt india take it as a challenge back in 2007 whos ouster resulted in changing the world cup format. Ensuring that they would qualify for next round
 
Icc should award Scotland cricket that much amount anyway. It's icc's cheapness that knocked out Scotland.
 
Can feel for all teams which miss out on qualifications. Happens to so many teams across sports when they come close but can't quite make it to the WC of that sport. As an Indian fan, have had those experiences in Hockey and Lawn Tennis.

But hey thats not the end of the world. Get up again and make a fresh start. These teams should take it as a challenge and improve further, beat the main nations when they play them to show to ICC how wrong they were.
Wait another 4 years to try and qualify for a world cup where out of 5 deserving teams, only 2 will make it? Hard to get motivated when the process is so against you.
 
Agree, these countries are not poor ones in terms of economy, let the Govt. invest if they really care to be part of big boys.

That's not the point. The point is that the ICC is inept, and not a good enough organization to grow the game.
 
Wait another 4 years to try and qualify for a world cup where out of 5 deserving teams, only 2 will make it? Hard to get motivated when the process is so against you.

Why 4 years? There is World T20 as well.

Not qualifying is tough on teams but thats true with every sport. In football 32 teams make it to the WC, there are at least 25-30 other teams which deserve to go as well. Doesn't mean teams which do not make it stop playing football after failing to qualify. Ditto with hockey.
 
Agree, these countries are not poor ones in terms of economy, let the Govt. invest if they really care to be part of big boys.

Why should the governments help cricket grow? Isn't that one of the primary and pretty much sole purpose of the ICC?

The problem is in cricket we have "big boys" who never ended up maturing into men and seeing the bigger picture. They couldn't see past the bottom line on their bank accounts, and don't see the damage their are doing to international cricket by not allowing it to grow around the world.

Can feel for all teams which miss out on qualifications. Happens to so many teams across sports when they come close but can't quite make it to the WC of that sport. As an Indian fan, have had those experiences in Hockey and Lawn Tennis.

But hey thats not the end of the world. Get up again and make a fresh start. These teams should take it as a challenge and improve further, beat the main nations when they play them to show to ICC how wrong they were.

Yes - there is often disappointment in sport - however, its not often in sport that the organisers are actively making decisions which cripple the smaller teams, give them limited opportunities, cut their funding and in general limit the growth of the sport itself, purely to help the richer teams get richer.

On the sport field you should be competing against the opposition - not against the narrow minded, short sighted organisers of the sport
 
Why 4 years? There is World T20 as well.

Not qualifying is tough on teams but thats true with every sport. In football 32 teams make it to the WC, there are at least 25-30 other teams which deserve to go as well. Doesn't mean teams which do not make it stop playing football after failing to qualify. Ditto with hockey.

Difference being FIFA does not suddenly cut down teams from 32 to say 20 rather they are expanding the WC unlike the big 3 especially CA and ECB who are just out to line their pockets.
 
Maybe they should get the ICC to change the rules like India did after you didn't get out of the group stage in 2007.

Do u have a source where BCCI officially asked ICC to change the format. We all know it was ICC who changed it cause lets face it, any tournament minus India is basically no money making event for ICC. Even ultr rich countries lik UK and Australia brings Zilch to ICC. Sad days eh when a third world country bailing out rich nations.
 
Why should the governments help cricket grow? Isn't that one of the primary and pretty much sole purpose of the ICC?

The problem is in cricket we have "big boys" who never ended up maturing into men and seeing the bigger picture. They couldn't see past the bottom line on their bank accounts, and don't see the damage their are doing to international cricket by not allowing it to grow around the world.



Yes - there is often disappointment in sport - however, its not often in sport that the organisers are actively making decisions which cripple the smaller teams, give them limited opportunities, cut their funding and in general limit the growth of the sport itself, purely to help the richer teams get richer.

On the sport field you should be competing against the opposition - not against the narrow minded, short sighted organisers of the sport

Its not the responsibility of so called big boys to grow game beoyound their own country. There is ICC for a reason. If ICC is not competent enough then its time member nations take matter in their own hands.
Every country have right to think for herself and tbh they dont have any obligations.

If Scotland cant generate funds on their own and they are at fault. How many of the full members minus the India have actually generated revenue for other countries? Lets talk about that

Here the country that is basically bailing out the rest of the world always get criticised. Why not ask your PCB to generate as much revenue as BCCI and help ICC out or SL or BD or whoever.
 
The one thing I will say is that WCs have been hosted in all the major countries so most people on here have had the chance to go to one.

I would like to hear how many of the people saying "pathetic" and abusing the ICC have actually gone and watched (or would watch) NZ vs Scotland or Sri Lanka vs Ireland in a 50 over WC.

The football WC expands since stadiums are sold out and even England vs Iceland is not a financial loss for the host country.

As I said before, there are good reason why the T20 WC is being expanded and not the 50 over WC, and it makes complete sense and not just financially but also to actually grow the game.

Scotland should try their best to get a team in the English T20 competition and use that as a platform to get a team in the county championship. T20 is also what will drive kids to play cricket and help improve their base.

Scotland participated in the 99 WC in England - did it lead to an increase in participation rates?

What about after the 2007 WC?

ICC's role is not to keep giving opportunities to one-off players like 30-year South African Mommsen to play a WC as a Scottish player.
 
That's a shame for Scotland. They actually played really well in the qualifying tournament and probably deserved to qualify ahead of Afghanistan.
 
That's a shame for Scotland. They actually played really well in the qualifying tournament and probably deserved to qualify ahead of Afghanistan.

I say they deserved to qualify ahead of WI as well they have hardly lost any games in the past couple years.
 
Having been to Edinburgh and seen the kind of sporting infrastructure and facilities kids have access to is way better than the kids get in subcontinent. Mindset of the people in India regarding sports is slowly changing and cricket is at the forefront of it. A lot more needs to be done and I for one am not at all apologetic for the increased money bcci is getting. They need every bit of it.
 
Having been to Edinburgh and seen the kind of sporting infrastructure and facilities kids have access to is way better than the kids get in subcontinent. Mindset of the people in India regarding sports is slowly changing and cricket is at the forefront of it. A lot more needs to be done and I for one am not at all apologetic for the increased money bcci is getting. They need every bit of it.

This.

Lot of people are sad about Scotland losing funds but no one’s asking where would that fund be coming from. ICC snatching cash from India to give it to first world countries :facepalm: Now, i support 10 team worldcup, to hell with associtaes. Scotland have been playing cricket for past two decades and still they suck big time. Id rather prefer ICC look into nations like Nepal where cricket have strong presence but lacks the infrastructure and finance.
 
This.

Lot of people are sad about Scotland losing funds but no one’s asking where would that fund be coming from. ICC snatching cash from India to give it to first world countries :facepalm: Now, i support 10 team worldcup, to hell with associtaes. Scotland have been playing cricket for past two decades and still they suck big time. Id rather prefer ICC look into nations like Nepal where cricket have strong presence but lacks the infrastructure and finance.

What has Scotland's first world status has got to with funds they should get? They are the best performing associate nation and should be supported to get to the level.
 
What has Scotland's first world status has got to with funds they should get? They are the best performing associate nation and should be supported to get to the level.

They can get funds from their respective govt if they are so serious about game. The reason their govt isnt supporting them sums up the status of the game in that nation. Why should Scotland get money that should’ve been invested in other parts where game is booming?
 
What has Scotland's first world status has got to with funds they should get? They are the best performing associate nation and should be supported to get to the level.

I agree about the irrelevant point about their first world status but the questions that need to be answered are

- has participation levels in Scotland gone up since 99?
- have they increased their talent pool or is it just players like South African Mommsen getting a free WC ride in Scottish colours?
- why has the Scottish board not gone all in to try and get a spot in the English T20 tournament(s)?


If I was ICC, I would always invest in a Nepal over a Scotland at this point. The former can become a genuine top level team with home grown talent.
 
They can get funds from their respective govt if they are so serious about game. The reason their govt isnt supporting them sums up the status of the game in that nation. Why should Scotland get money that should’ve been invested in other parts where game is booming?

Don't think governments directly fund any cricket board.
 
I agree about the irrelevant point about their first world status but the questions that need to be answered are

- has participation levels in Scotland gone up since 99?
- have they increased their talent pool or is it just players like South African Mommsen getting a free WC ride in Scottish colours?
- why has the Scottish board not gone all in to try and get a spot in the English T20 tournament(s)?


If I was ICC, I would always invest in a Nepal over a Scotland at this point. The former can become a genuine top level team with home grown talent.

Why not invest in both?

There are some outliners but most of the Scottish team is "Scottish".

Don't know much about their domestic situation so can't comment on other points.
 
Don't think governments directly fund any cricket board.

Then its too bad, they have been playing for 20 years and yet couldn’t progress past Associate level. On the other hand, Afghanistan even reached test status despite lack of infrastructure and finance. ICC should look towards Nepal where cricket is booming.
 
Why not invest in both?

There are some outliners but most of the Scottish team is "Scottish".

Don't know much about their domestic situation so can't comment on other points.

And where would that fund comes from? Oh wait yea lets cut BCCI’s share even further and give it to associates.
 
It's a shame as Scotland performed really well but odds were always stacked against us and the team is predominantly Scottish. I even played against a couple of them!
I think ICC have been embarrassing in their approach to growing the game, contrast it with the way IRB have been expanding rugby union out of it's traditional areas and encouraging it's growth worldwide. One of the reasons cricket feels like a sport in decline. ICC need to take the lead and encourage more people to watch and participate in cricket or watch it become a sport for the Indian subcontinent, England, Australia and an ever reducing number of people in a smaller and smaller number of nations.
 
Everyone will have to pitch in obviously.

Oh yea as per new financial model it seems on India has significant loss and every other nations actually gained from it. From 570M to 405M thats a massive deduction for BCCI. Now, you want BCCI to give up more? Seriously how can someone be so deluded.

Associates or not Idc, i just want BCCI gets it rightful share.
 
Oh yea as per new financial model it seems on India has significant loss and every other nations actually gained from it. From 570M to 405M thats a massive deduction for BCCI. Now, you want BCCI to give up more? Seriously how can someone be so deluded.

Associates or not Idc, i just want BCCI gets it rightful share.
Don't think BCCI needs ICC's money ANYMORE.

im proposing a lot larger game development fund than present one for associates which will come out of all the member's share. An agreed upon percentage.
 
Don't think BCCI needs ICC's money ANYMORE.

im proposing a lot larger game development fund than present one for associates which will come out of all the member's share. An agreed upon percentage.

Why do you think BCCI wont be needing the extra cash from ICC?

What you’re basically suggesting is communism, lets take fund from top nations and give it associates, even if they suck for next 50years. Like, ICC should audit associates and also set timeline, by next 25 years if you guys still suck then just packup. Why waste millions after scotland when Nepal could be a better options.

Lastly, India have billion people meaning we need more infrastructure and academies to support that many players. BCCI should not accept any more cuts. If associate cant get finance from their govt or cant support themselves in whatever currently they getting from ICC, then might as well give up playing.
 
Why not invest in both?

There are some outliners but most of the Scottish team is "Scottish".

Don't know much about their domestic situation so can't comment on other points.

But hasn't ICC already invested in Scotland for 2 decades and seen no real improvement.

At what point should they stop giving handouts?


The Scottish board needs to show that they are willing to change something on their end now, and getting involved in the English T20 competition would be the starting point in my opinion.
 
Why do you think BCCI wont be needing the extra cash from ICC?

What you’re basically suggesting is communism, lets take fund from top nations and give it associates, even if they suck for next 50years. Like, ICC should audit associates and also set timeline, by next 25 years if you guys still suck then just packup. Why waste millions after scotland when Nepal could be a better options.

Lastly, India have billion people meaning we need more infrastructure and academies to support that many players. BCCI should not accept any more cuts. If associate cant get finance from their govt or cant support themselves in whatever currently they getting from ICC, then might as well give up playing.

All full member boards should receive an equal cut from the ICCs pot. A bigger population means more is needed for development but it also means a larger market is there to exploit. Associate nations should get an equal base funding with clearly defined targets each of which being met results in increased funding.
 
Why do you think BCCI wont be needing the extra cash from ICC?

What you’re basically suggesting is communism, lets take fund from top nations and give it associates, even if they suck for next 50years. Like, ICC should audit associates and also set timeline, by next 25 years if you guys still suck then just packup. Why waste millions after scotland when Nepal could be a better options.

Lastly, India have billion people meaning we need more infrastructure and academies to support that many players. BCCI should not accept any more cuts. If associate cant get finance from their govt or cant support themselves in whatever currently they getting from ICC, then might as well give up playing.

Is raising a child communism? It doesn't contribute financially, its not quite as skillful yet and is quite expensive to keep alive. But we still do it.

Associates are like children learning to walk. We gotta support them.
 
All full member boards should receive an equal cut from the ICCs pot. A bigger population means more is needed for development but it also means a larger market is there to exploit. Associate nations should get an equal base funding with clearly defined targets each of which being met results in increased funding.

This equal share thing is crap and rightly so BCCI rejected it. If they want equal share then they should also contribute equally. If they can’t bring in equally then shouldnt complain if BCCI gets more share.

Associate nations bring is ZILCH. Like I said, they should be happy with whatever they getting it. In case with Scotland, what progress have they made in 20 years? The revenue distribution only changed in 2014, so they were getting so called equal share till 2014, so where did the funds go? ICC should audit associate nations and set them timeline.
 
But hasn't ICC already invested in Scotland for 2 decades and seen no real improvement.

At what point should they stop giving handouts?


The Scottish board needs to show that they are willing to change something on their end now, and getting involved in the English T20 competition would be the starting point in my opinion.

Any Scottish players good enough would already be involved in English county cricket. Given an additional Scotland team would be a walk over you'd struggle to get the ECB to agree.
 
Is raising a child communism? It doesn't contribute financially, its not quite as skillful yet and is quite expensive to keep alive. But we still do it.

Associates are like children learning to walk. We gotta support them.

Even a parents could look after their child for so long (18 years) and after that he/she is on their own. In this case, Icc have been feeding them for so long yet nothing has changed. How long till Scotland becomes self sufficient. Afghanistan took half the time Scotland got and they already got test status. Like I said, im not against development but make investment where it makes sense. I kept repeating Nepal, because they have huge fan following and potential to be next Afghanistan
 
This equal share thing is crap and rightly so BCCI rejected it. If they want equal share then they should also contribute equally. If they can’t bring in equally then shouldnt complain if BCCI gets more share.

Associate nations bring is ZILCH. Like I said, they should be happy with whatever they getting it. In case with Scotland, what progress have they made in 20 years? The revenue distribution only changed in 2014, so they were getting so called equal share till 2014, so where did the funds go? ICC should audit associate nations and set them timeline.

Disagree on the first point and stand by my opinion of equal shares for all full members. In the end it's the ICCs profits and not the BCCIs. The BCCIs population will increase their own profits compared to other boards and that's what they should be using to develop infrastructure across their larger population.

I don't see how your second point goes against what I said? Give all associated their base funding and then set clear performance and infrastructure targets. For each of those targets met your funding increases giving added incentive to improve.
 
Even a parents could look after their child for so long (18 years) and after that he/she is on their own. In this case, Icc have been feeding them for so long yet nothing has changed. How long till Scotland becomes self sufficient. Afghanistan took half the time Scotland got and they already got test status. Like I said, im not against development but make investment where it makes sense. I kept repeating Nepal, because they have huge fan following and potential to be next Afghanistan

I agree that associate boards should be held accountable for their game development spending. ICC could easily make a finance committee just to formally regulate the development funds and their maximum use. Cricket boards like Zimbabwe have looted ICC for years yet they are somehow in debt despite getting millions in dollars.

Ireland, Scotland, Afghanistan have caught upto full members despite getting peanuts from ICC. If we add just one more test nation we increase 10% in size. Isn't that worth something?
 
I agree that associate boards should be held accountable for their game development spending. ICC could easily make a finance committee just to formally regulate the development funds and their maximum use. Cricket boards like Zimbabwe have looted ICC for years yet they are somehow in debt despite getting millions in dollars.

Ireland, Scotland, Afghanistan have caught upto full members despite getting peanuts from ICC. If we add just one more test nation we increase 10% in size. Isn't that worth something?
Let that nation be Nepal. I know many Nepalese here in Canada who are die hard cricket fans. They support Indian team whenever their team isnt playing. Now imagine those die hard fans cheering for their team against India.
Nepal would show much more improvement then Scotland will ever show with same financial handouts. Investing for the sake of investing is bad investment. ICC should invest in markets that has potential and can be self reliant in say 20 years.

Scotland despite gettig help from ECB and ICC are still at the same associate level thry were 20 years ago. Why do you think it would be any different this time around?
 
All full member boards should receive an equal cut from the ICCs pot. A bigger population means more is needed for development but it also means a larger market is there to exploit. Associate nations should get an equal base funding with clearly defined targets each of which being met results in increased funding.

You have to take the economic situation of the country in consideration too. I doubt you will see a kid playing barefoot because he can't afford shoes whereas such sights are common in the subcontinent. Reminds me of the story of munaf Patel who used to work as a daily wage labourer and cried when he saw enough food for the first time at NCA. Such cases are galore in the subcontinent.

Also, when you mention population, you have to take into account the purchasing power of the people. They aren't going to spend 30-40 pounds per month on their cable subscription. Visit subcontinent once and you will also find hard to sympathize with the first world problems of Scottish players.
 
Scotland despite gettig help from ECB and ICC are still at the same associate level thry were 20 years ago. Why do you think it would be any different this time around?

Because despite getting peanuts from the ICC for those 20 years they've still managed to put together a very competitive team that were 5 runs off qualifying for a 10 team world cup. Also come on, it would be silly to say Scottish cricket isn't in any better a place than it was 20 years ago (and lets not forget they lost Machan, one of their more talented upcoming batsmen, last year)
 
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Let that nation be Nepal. I know many Nepalese here in Canada who are die hard cricket fans. They support Indian team whenever their team isnt playing. Now imagine those die hard fans cheering for their team against India.
Nepal would show much more improvement then Scotland will ever show with same financial handouts. Investing for the sake of investing is bad investment. ICC should invest in markets that has potential and can be self reliant in say 20 years.

Scotland despite gettig help from ECB and ICC are still at the same associate level thry were 20 years ago. Why do you think it would be any different this time around?

Scotland has hardly gotten much funding from ICC over the years. The amount ICC was giving them is not enough for a first world country where everything is more expensive.

And why do you think bcci is contributing to ICC the most? India just has the biggest cricketing market, most fans. but BCCI don't own the fans, can't take credit for how much the country's fans are watching.
 
Disagree on the first point and stand by my opinion of equal shares for all full members. In the end it's the ICCs profits and not the BCCIs. The BCCIs population will increase their own profits compared to other boards and that's what they should be using to develop infrastructure across their larger population.

I don't see how your second point goes against what I said? Give all associated their base funding and then set clear performance and infrastructure targets. For each of those targets met your funding increases giving added incentive to improve.

But ICC relies heavily on Indian market for its revenue which means ICC needs India more than any other country. It only makes perfect sense if that some of that money is retained and invested back in India.

Associates are already getting funds, did ICC stopped funding? No
If Im not wrong, Manohar changed the financial structure and approved majority of BCCI’s share to Associate nations, so Im not sure what is Scottish crying about.

Now one thing which you comfortably ingored to comment was the progress made by Scottish team. In last 20 years and still associate? Afghanistan who started well after them have gone past them.
 
Scotland has hardly gotten much funding from ICC over the years. The amount ICC was giving them is not enough for a first world country where everything is more expensive.

And why do you think bcci is contributing to ICC the most? India just has the biggest cricketing market, most fans. but BCCI don't own the fans, can't take credit for how much the country's fans are watching.

Indian fans watches Indian games, we could care less about other teams. If you doubt me the please answer me why was 2007 WC such a failure? Why did ratings dropped? Why did ICC and broadcaster made huge loss? Why didn’t other markets covered the loss of Indian market?

Whether you like it or not, Indian fan and market is heavily attached to Team India which is owned by BCCI. In other words, the market that ICC is milking now was developed by BCCI and their dedication, so yes BCCI technically owns Indian market. ICC didnt invested in India, it was BCCI.
 
Because despite getting peanuts from the ICC for those 20 years they've still managed to put together a very competitive team that were 5 runs off qualifying for a 10 team world cup. Also come on, it would be silly to say Scottish cricket isn't in any better a place than it was 20 years ago (and lets not forget they lost Machan, one of their more talented upcoming batsmen, last year)

Afghanistan dont even have infrastructure that Scotland have yet they outdid them not just in qualifiers but in general for past 5 years.
 
Its not the responsibility of so called big boys to grow game beoyound their own country. There is ICC for a reason. If ICC is not competent enough then its time member nations take matter in their own hands.
Every country have right to think for herself and tbh they dont have any obligations.

If Scotland cant generate funds on their own and they are at fault. How many of the full members minus the India have actually generated revenue for other countries? Lets talk about that

Here the country that is basically bailing out the rest of the world always get criticised. Why not ask your PCB to generate as much revenue as BCCI and help ICC out or SL or BD or whoever.

I don’t think you quite understand what the ICC is. :afaq

And I can see our BCCI-brigade has done a serious number on you :inzi

Answer me a couple of questions:

1) Who’s responsibility is it to grow the cricket internationally?

2) Where does the ICC make their money from?

3) If the ICC and international Cricket is so heavily reliant on the BCCI - why are the BCCI still putting up with it? Why haven’t they said “nah we aren’t giving you any more money since we get nothing in return - we are just going to keep our money to ourselves”?

4) In your opinion what helps a sport grow in a country? You say Scotland should generate their own funds - so tell me - if you were running Cricket Scotland or Cricket Canada - what would you need and how would you go about raising funds and awareness for Cricket in your country with out any support from the ICC?
 
You have to take the economic situation of the country in consideration too. I doubt you will see a kid playing barefoot because he can't afford shoes whereas such sights are common in the subcontinent. Reminds me of the story of munaf Patel who used to work as a daily wage labourer and cried when he saw enough food for the first time at NCA. Such cases are galore in the subcontinent.

Also, when you mention population, you have to take into account the purchasing power of the people. They aren't going to spend 30-40 pounds per month on their cable subscription. Visit subcontinent once and you will also find hard to sympathize with the first world problems of Scottish players.

You’re wasting your time explaining this to people. They think BCCI doesnt need extra cash as we already have plenty. I mean i have seen the conditions of academies in Mumbai and lack of funds. BCCI have done tremendous job in last 10 years in improving the facilities but still we need many more academies and facilities for kids. These extra 10-15M can easily support 2-3 academies in tier2 city.
 
I don’t think you quite understand what the ICC is. :afaq

And I can see our BCCI-brigade has done a serious number on you :inzi

Answer me a couple of questions:

1) Who’s responsibility is it to grow the cricket internationally?

2) Where does the ICC make their money from?

3) If the ICC and international Cricket is so heavily reliant on the BCCI - why are the BCCI still putting up with it? Why haven’t they said “nah we aren’t giving you any more money since we get nothing in return - we are just going to keep our money to ourselves”?

4) In your opinion what helps a sport grow in a country? You say Scotland should generate their own funds - so tell me - if you were running Cricket Scotland or Cricket Canada - what would you need and how would you go about raising funds and awareness for Cricket in your country with out any support from the ICC?

BCCI putting up with ICC is for obvious reason, they do not have full power at office thanks to COA. This is one time i really wish we still had Srini Mama.
1) ICC is responsible for growing cricket but that doesn’t mean take away the funds from BCCI and give it others. Whatever funds they get from hosting associates should be distributed among them.

2) All i can say is ICC makes most of their money from Indian market, the market which was developed by BCCI. The market which BCCI worked hard to make it attractive. ICC is just milking it.

3) As I said, in the end both parties reached an agreement. ICC originally were offering 250-260M but ended up agreeing to 405M which is still less than original Big3. But the lost revenue was recovered with new IPL deal.

4) Sport can only grow if there is demand for it. Now, if Scotland had huge fan following and demand for cricket then why do they still at Associate level? In Canada, cricket will never be mainstream sport, which is why you wont see Canadian taking up cricket as career. Majority of Canadian team is filled with expats who also have day time job and play cricket mostly on weekend. Now, if you were ICC head and wanted to select one nation to be next Afghanistan, who would you chose, Scotland, Nepal or Canada?

As an investor, you invest where you see a return on it.
 
Indian fans watches Indian games, we could care less about other teams. If you doubt me the please answer me why was 2007 WC such a failure? Why did ratings dropped? Why did ICC and broadcaster made huge loss? Why didn’t other markets covered the loss of Indian market?

Whether you like it or not, Indian fan and market is heavily attached to Team India which is owned by BCCI. In other words, the market that ICC is milking now was developed by BCCI and their dedication, so yes BCCI technically owns Indian market. ICC didnt invested in India, it was BCCI.

The 2007 world cup making huge losses for the ICC is a commonly circulated myth by Indians. It's not true, the ICCs income from the event wasn't particularly affected by India (and Pakistans) early exit.
 
The 2007 world cup making huge losses for the ICC is a commonly circulated myth by Indians. It's not true, the ICCs income from the event wasn't particularly affected by India (and Pakistans) early exit.

Then why not explain us why did ICC made huge loss in 2007? And in 2011 it was demeed as most successful WC ever.
 
You’re wasting your time explaining this to people. They think BCCI doesnt need extra cash as we already have plenty. I mean i have seen the conditions of academies in Mumbai and lack of funds. BCCI have done tremendous job in last 10 years in improving the facilities but still we need many more academies and facilities for kids. These extra 10-15M can easily support 2-3 academies in tier2 city.

Which is exactly what the BCCIs profits should be used for, not the ICCs.
 

There is already a quite active petition on the same thing running with close to 10000 signatures -
https://www.change.org/p/icc-change...icket-world-cup-to-just-10-teams-in-2019-2023

And 12 will be as bad as 10. That still means 1 of Ireland, Scotland or Zimbabwe will miss out which is unfair. 14 teams just like 2003, 2011 & 2015 accomodates all 12 full members + 2 best associates and is the best number as of now
 
I think you’re the one who dont understand what ICC is. Here let me tell you, they are BCCI’s B.... i dont want to say it or i might get in trouble. But i hope you get it what i mean.

....and that is why you are incapable of answering even a single one of the 4 questions I’ve asked you - in particular question 3 :msd
 
Which is exactly what the BCCIs profits should be used for, not the ICCs.

ICC is using Indian economy, Indian market, and Indian fan’s money. So yes, BCCI is right in keeping some of it.

No matter how much we disagree, ICC agreed to BCCIs demand proves that they need BCCI/India more than any other nation. If BCCI or India werent that important, im sure ICC would’ve replaced them by now, but they haven’t, I wonder why.
 
Any associate country where Cricket isn’t very popular

Quit being diplomatic bro, pick one nation. Since, you live in Scotland you know much more about there and how cricket is in that part of world. If Id have to chose between Canada or Nepal, i know ill chose Nepal. Cricket have no future in Canada
 
Read this article,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6495085.stm

it clearly says Broadcaster made huge loss and the Ad slot value was significantly dropped after India’s exit. Now, if ICC didnt made huge loss then why did they change the format?

Why don’t you prove me that 2007 WC was as successful as 2011?
 
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Read this article,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6495085.stm

it clearly says Broadcaster made huge loss and the Ad slot value was significantly dropped after India’s exit. Now, if ICC didnt made huge loss then why did they change the format?

Why don’t you prove me that 2007 WC was as successful as 2011?

Which is not what you claimed, you claimed the ICC Made huge losses from the world cup which you've still failed to prove.

Your second question is brilliant. "I'm going to make up lies to support my argument, be completely unable to provide any sort of evidence of said lies when requested by some person, then ask that person to provide evidence that my lie was lie as proof my lie is true". You made the claim, back it up with some facts.

On another note though I highly doubt the 2007 world cup did bring in as much for the ICC as the 2011 world cup, in the same way I doubt the 2003 world cup brought in as much as the 2007 world cup.
 
BCCI putting up with ICC is for obvious reason, they do not have full power at office thanks to COA. This is one time i really wish we still had Srini Mama.
1) ICC is responsible for growing cricket but that doesn’t mean take away the funds from BCCI and give it others. Whatever funds they get from hosting associates should be distributed among them.

2) All i can say is ICC makes most of their money from Indian market, the market which was developed by BCCI. The market which BCCI worked hard to make it attractive. ICC is just milking it.

3) As I said, in the end both parties reached an agreement. ICC originally were offering 250-260M but ended up agreeing to 405M which is still less than original Big3. But the lost revenue was recovered with new IPL deal.

4) Sport can only grow if there is demand for it. Now, if Scotland had huge fan following and demand for cricket then why do they still at Associate level? In Canada, cricket will never be mainstream sport, which is why you wont see Canadian taking up cricket as career. Majority of Canadian team is filled with expats who also have day time job and play cricket mostly on weekend. Now, if you were ICC head and wanted to select one nation to be next Afghanistan, who would you chose, Scotland, Nepal or Canada?

As an investor, you invest where you see a return on it.

BCCI doesn’t leave the ICC because the BCCI cannot survive without the ICC - not because of the COA.

BCCI needs events such as World Cup and other international teams to make their money. Don’t for a single second be naive enough to think that if the BCCI didn’t have to be part of the ICC, they still would. IPL is only successful due to the involvement of international players & that money making machine would not exist if international players and the ICC didn’t actively participate in it. How much money to other domestic Indian competitions make?

The ICC makes their money from India, Australia, England and all of the Top 10 countries. It is then the ICCs job to grow the sport around the world, so part of the money the big teams generate should be used around the world for the sport to grow. The fact that some boards and fans are so short sighted that they cannot see the benefit of helping the sport grow is depressing.

Even when ICC cut BCCIs profit, the BCCI still didn’t cut ties with the ICC because the BCCI need the ICC just as much as the ICC needs the BCCI.

The ICCs job isn’t to just help the sport grow in countries where there is already an interest - the ICCs job is to take the sport to countries where there is no interest and generate that interest.

The summary of it all is very simple:

> The ICC gets money from BCCI, CA, ECB and all the big boards. Yes the majority of the money is from the BCCI, but f the BCCI have a problem with that - no one is forcing them to stay.

> The ICC should then invest a portion of that money around the globe to generate an interest in Cricket on an international level in as many countries as possible.

The ICC shouldn’t be content with a dozen Cricket playing countries as you seem to be.

Apart from Nepal and now Afg there is no associate nation where there is an interest in Cricket - but that doesn’t mean after Afg and Nepal get to a Test playing status the ICC just sits on their backsides.
 
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Quit being diplomatic bro, pick one nation. Since, you live in Scotland you know much more about there and how cricket is in that part of world. If Id have to chose between Canada or Nepal, i know ill chose Nepal. Cricket have no future in Canada

It’s not about being diplomatic - it’s about realising that if we already work on countries where there is an interest for Cricket, we will never have more than 12 teams playing cricket.
 
Can feel for all teams which miss out on qualifications. Happens to so many teams across sports when they come close but can't quite make it to the WC of that sport. As an Indian fan, have had those experiences in Hockey and Lawn Tennis.

But hey thats not the end of the world. Get up again and make a fresh start. These teams should take it as a challenge and improve further, beat the main nations when they play them to show to ICC how wrong they were.

From May 2017 - http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...a-vs-scotland-practice-match-eng-v-scot-2017/

And still Scotland don't get opportunities to play big teams :( They have just 1 ODI + 2 T20Is against big teams this year
 
The one thing I will say is that WCs have been hosted in all the major countries so most people on here have had the chance to go to one.

I would like to hear how many of the people saying "pathetic" and abusing the ICC have actually gone and watched (or would watch) NZ vs Scotland or Sri Lanka vs Ireland in a 50 over WC.

The football WC expands since stadiums are sold out and even England vs Iceland is not a financial loss for the host country.

As I said before, there are good reason why the T20 WC is being expanded and not the 50 over WC, and it makes complete sense and not just financially but also to actually grow the game.

Scotland should try their best to get a team in the English T20 competition and use that as a platform to get a team in the county championship. T20 is also what will drive kids to play cricket and help improve their base.

Scotland participated in the 99 WC in England - did it lead to an increase in participation rates?

What about after the 2007 WC?

ICC's role is not to keep giving opportunities to one-off players like 30-year South African Mommsen to play a WC as a Scottish player.

T20WC used to be 12 teams, it was cut to 10 teams in 2014 and after 2016, they made it once in 4 years from once in 2

Except that ICC cleverly disguised the 10 team T20 WC as 16 teams
 
This.

Lot of people are sad about Scotland losing funds but no one’s asking where would that fund be coming from. ICC snatching cash from India to give it to first world countries :facepalm: Now, i support 10 team worldcup, to hell with associtaes. Scotland have been playing cricket for past two decades and still they suck big time. Id rather prefer ICC look into nations like Nepal where cricket have strong presence but lacks the infrastructure and finance.

ICC isn't snatching anything from India. It's BCCI who are snatching everything from ICC
 
And where would that fund comes from? Oh wait yea lets cut BCCI’s share even further and give it to associates.

The reverse is happening. BCCI is cutting Associates funds and eating all of it themselves, that too when ICC funds generate only 6% of BCCI's total earnings. BCCI earn the remaining 94% from elsewhere

Even if BCCI get $0 from ICC, they will still be quite well off
 
Oh yea as per new financial model it seems on India has significant loss and every other nations actually gained from it. From 570M to 405M thats a massive deduction for BCCI. Now, you want BCCI to give up more? Seriously how can someone be so deluded.

Associates or not Idc, i just want BCCI gets it rightful share.

According to the model which existed till 2013, BCCI only got 110M. From 110M to 405M in just 4 years is far too much of a increase. BCCI shouldn't be getting more than 200M at most
 
According to the model which existed till 2013, BCCI only got 110M. From 110M to 405M in just 4 years is far too much of a increase. BCCI shouldn't be getting more than 200M at most

Bro, under Big 3 BCCI were to get 21% from 570M but were brought down last year to 405M whereas all other countries except England got pay increase.
 
The reverse is happening. BCCI is cutting Associates funds and eating all of it themselves, that too when ICC funds generate only 6% of BCCI's total earnings. BCCI earn the remaining 94% from elsewhere

Even if BCCI get $0 from ICC, they will still be quite well off

BCCI gets around $39M per year from ICC, which is fraction of what Ipl generates, however that 39M means alot to local academies. Im not suggesting BCCI should get any more, but this proportion is accepted by both ICC and BCCI, so why change it?
 
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