Crimes of Misbah-ul-Haq: Oathgate, Blocking youngsters etc.

[mominsaigol]

Lol, you're using t20 filters for Odi and test .

Idiot ki bhi had hoti hai

Misbah is > Sachin in odi cause he had a higher SR in 2007-2008 HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH.

Misbah the no 6 batsmen > Chanderpaul the no 4 batsmen > Sachin the opening batsmen.

. Stupidity ki bhi had hoti hai

 

[Devadwal]

Misbah is > Sachin in odi cause he had a higher SR in 2007-2008 HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH.

Misbah the no 6 batsmen > Chanderpaul the no 4 batsmen > Sachin the opening batsmen.

. Stupidity ki bhi had hoti hai

Now again changing the goalpost from Misbah to Sachin . Hahaha

#exposed

 

[BouncerGuy]

ARE YOU GUYS DONE DERAILING THE THREAD???

NOW STAY ON TOPIC AND NO PERSONAL STUFF.

 

[mominsaigol]

Now again changing the goalpost from Misbah to Sachin . Hahaha

#exposed

Ik now why you hate chanderpaul. His highest odi score is 149 against India where he brutally bullied you into submission, not to mention in test cricket his best avg is against India 63 .

Lol, he was the past Travis Head for India, Haha.

 

[Devadwal]

Ik now why you hate chanderpaul. His highest odi score is 149 against India where he brutally bullied you into submission, not to mention in test cricket his best avg is against India 63 .

Lol, he was the past Travis Head for India, Haha.

I don't hate him. He was average/ below average player in odi cricket but quality batsman in test cricket.

I don't mix formats like you.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't hate him. He was average/ below average player in odi cricket but quality batsman in test cricket.

I don't mix formats like you.

Anyone who calls Chanderpaul a Nobody, and has the audacity to compare misbah and rizwan to him in any sort of capacity and any sort of metric is either a hater or is clueless about cricket.

 

[manzoor.syed]

Misbah was only good for tests and that too because he played most of his matches in UAE and Asia.

Younis Khan, Azhar Ali & Asad Shafiq plus Sarfrazs test form post 2014 supported him while batting and they were able to form crucial partnerships in Pakistan wins.

Also, everyone knows the UAE is spinners paradise. Pakistan had quality test spinners from Saeed Ajmal, Abdul Rehman, Yasir Shah, Zulfiqar Babar and even Hafeez despite not being a frontline spinner bowled well in the UAE.

Pakistan did well in tests between 2010-2017 because they had a good team who had adapted to the UAE conditions and had done relatively okay in SENA countries + WI aswell (excluding in Australia) so I don’t understand people give Misbah all the credit.

Yes he performed in UAE tests, and his stats outside Asia are similar to most Pakistani away stats but he did not achieve anything legendary. Captaining a well established team at a venue you know inside out is not equivalent to what other Test greats who have captained Pakistan have achieved. He was lucky his defensive mindset suited the strategy they had mastered in the UAE.

He was a terrible t20 and ODI batsman. He should have retired from ODIs along with his t20 retirement in 2012, should not have captained or played in CT 2013 or WC 2015.

His defensive tuk tuk approach has done more damage to Pakistan than good. On top of that he would always blame the top order failures saying he comes in at 10-2 or 20-3 so he has to play defensively. Defensively does not mean dot after dot and building pressure on your own team. When you’re building an innings singles and doubles and finding the gaps count which he didn’t do well enough (Babar and Rizwan do this now) either play dot after dot or try launch boundaries and holed out. There is no in between 1s and 2s keeping the scoreboard ticking. This guy could not even score a single ODI hundred and contradicted himself since he always said he was in early. Strike rate was hardly ever above 75. Apart from his fastest test hundred where other batters had laid the platform and spinners gave them a big lead I don’t recall any memorable misbah memory apart from the famous scoop vs India in the 2007 final.

This guy was a glorified test batsman who got lucky, then the PCB decided to appoint him as Coach and Chief selector one of the biggest mistakes in their history.

 

[manzoor.syed]

Misbah remains our best post-Inzi captain. The people who dislike him are ignorant. This guy ended the era of infighting and groupings within the team; ensured we became a respected team in the eyes of the cricketing fraternity; and eventually took us to #1 in the world.

It's a lie that he was the mastermind behind oathgate. Younis played under him for years without issue. The people still moaning about 2007 or 2011 need to grow up and stop crying. Misbah did not lose us those games, the guys who barely contributed to our score did.

There is also no evidence for him being a roadblock for any youngsters. Plenty of guys had their debut under him.

How can you say Misbah did not lose the 2007 final, he had just hit a 6 down the ground. Why did he attempt the scoop vs a bowler bowling at 110kph.. when you take the game that deep it’s your job to finish the game like Kohli always does. Can’t put all the blame on batsman who were out in the power play when the game goes down to the last 4 balls. Yes it’s a team sports but the individual players who are in the middle at the given time have to play the situation.

2011 was a different tuk tuk show. A lot of the middle order got out trying to break free because he was creating pressure playing so many dots while RR was climbing. Then he started hitting once the match was lost like Babar does these days after 50. Everyone knows he could hit, he has the fastest test hundred equaled with Viv. Why didn’t he show intent when it was needed. He was also Sachins first drop of the day. The most costly.

 

[topspin]

Did you watch the game live? This is a question I've asked you on multiple occasions but you've ended up doing a runner. I guess Misbah taught well with cowardice type of approach.

I watched every ball of the Mohali encounter, commentators and the analysts sitting in the Sky Sports Studio were in disbelief with what they had seen from Misbah.

He wasn't showing any urgency when the run rate was going up. He was desperate to keep his place in the side, as evident by that innings he played during that game which is by far the most worthless half century I've ever seen.

When I was watching it live, the commentators and the pundits in the Sky Studio could not hide how baffled they were. Even Ravi Shastri on air was puzzled with what Misbah was doing. No one could make sense of his approach. After the game had finished, I remember Nick Knight saying "I'm really angry by what I've just seen", which says it all really.

Misbah didn't show proper intent until the game was beyond reach.

I have already told you before after the 2011 WC, I didn't want YK to be selected for white ball cricket. You either seem to have selective memory or you are deliberately trying to malign me.

@daytrader

You going to do another runner?

 

[Rana]

@daytrader

You going to do another runner?

The need of the hour is to do a runner.

 

[topspin]

The need of the hour is to do a runner.

He'll continue to do two things; justify that pathetic Mohali innings and secondly, claim I'm only going after Misbah, when I have clearly said on multiple occasions that both him and YK should've been thrown out of white ball cricket for Pakistan after that game.

 

[topspin]

Top Spin, I appreciate your work in Timepass and for me that is more important than cricket or cricketers so I will let your aggression slide. From your post:

"3 players (Wasim Akram, Younis Khan and Shoaib Akhtar), who are among our legends and ATGs"

Open to interpretation I guess. Regardless given the shenanigans those 3 were up to - well documented - it's a bit of a reach to use them against Misbah because whatever Misbah was, there were no question marks on his character or loyalty to the nation.

Regarding Babar's away centuries, as you know I am sure, the poster you are quoting was lying and claiming that Babar only had 1 away century:
View attachment 153050

I corrected her as always and mentioned that Babar had 2 away centuries - in Aus and SL.

I don't care what people think about Misbah - I think he was a limited cricketer but did a lot of good for Pakistan during one of our lowest periods; would just be better if we used the examples of literally anyone other than 3 questionable characters.

You started off well and I really wanted to say the respect is mutual, however I don't take kindly to anyone who disrespects our best players, which include the trio named above, when you have an appetite for mediocrity, as evident by your affection for Misbah, Babar and Rizwan

Our interests on Pakistan cricket are not aligned, so I think it's best we keep our interactions strictly on Time Pass to keep the peace.

 

[daytrader]

Did you watch the game live? This is a question I've asked you on multiple occasions but you've ended up doing a runner. I guess Misbah taught well with cowardice type of approach.

I watched every ball of the Mohali encounter, commentators and the analysts sitting in the Sky Sports Studio were in disbelief with what they had seen from Misbah.

He wasn't showing any urgency when the run rate was going up. He was desperate to keep his place in the side, as evident by that innings he played during that game which is by far the most worthless half century I've ever seen.

When I was watching it live, the commentators and the pundits in the Sky Studio could not hide how baffled they were. Even Ravi Shastri on air was puzzled with what Misbah was doing. No one could make sense of his approach. After the game had finished, I remember Nick Knight saying "I'm really angry by what I've just seen", which says it all really.

Misbah didn't show proper intent until the game was beyond reach.

I have already told you before after the 2011 WC, I didn't want YK to be selected for white ball cricket. You either seem to have selective memory or you are deliberately trying to malign me.

@daytrader

You going to do another runner?

He'll continue to do two things; justify that pathetic Mohali innings and secondly, claim I'm only going after Misbah, when I have clearly said on multiple occasions that both him and YK should've been thrown out of white ball cricket for Pakistan after that game.

BroI ain't no runner but I do think you have OCD cause you're always repeating the same vitriol. We've had this argument a million times and you know my stance on this. I just don't feel like repeating the same stuff over and over again.

Here's a post when we discussed this. The answers are valid today as they were then.

We've gone through the Mohali argument before but since this is a recent interview I will post on this thread too so newer readers know the facts.



They're commentators, they're paid to talk and make comments. Misbah was a talking point but so was poor captaincy and shot selections of others. In fact I remember the commentators specifically being baffled for not taking the batting power play. The shot selection was so bad that Afridi the then captain commented after the match that "we played irresponsible shots". If the captain is admitting the collective fault, why are you holding a grudge against a single individual




That's just your thinking with no logic supporting it except your personal bias. Your assumption, that he played the way he did only to secure his place in the team, is completely wrong. Misbah DID end up bottling the chase, but guess what... he was playing the very next ODI, there was no security issue.
He played according to the team plan. His and YK's role was to anchor the innings. In fact Misbah was specifically recalled for this reason after our poor showing in ODIs in England the previous year. In that period, we were having a very difficult time chasing any total. The strategy of the team batting around YK and Misbah was evident from the # of power hitters we played in the playing XI - Afridi, Kamran Akmal, Razzaq, Umar Akmal. These are the guys that failed their duties that day. Misbah performed his role and was Pakistan's highest scorer in the WC.




could careless about your heroes, just please stop maligning our national ones




So was there a committee or not? Quit beating around the bush and repeating general rhetoric. Let's debate niceties if you're game



I support him because I respect what he's done for Pakistan especially how he's done it with dignity and without showbaazy. His achievements are underrated and some thankless fans don't appreciate them. In another thread you posted that you respect how he carried the team after the spot fixing controversy. If you honestly meant that then start showing that gratitude

 

[daytrader]

The need of the hour is to do a runner.

Bhai tera only dishes out stunners. No runners here

 

[topspin]

BroI ain't no runner but I do think you have OCD cause you're always repeating the same vitriol. We've had this argument a million times and you know my stance on this. I just don't feel like repeating the same stuff over and over again.

Here's a post when we discussed this. The answers are valid today as they were then.

You are doing a runner because you have dodged this question 3 times.

I will ask you again, did you watch Misbah’s innings in the 2011 WC SF live?

The other point I want to clear up with you is about this accusation that “I only go after Misbah”. This is not true even in the slightest. I’ve told you on two occasions about YK, who is my all-time favourite Pakistan player, that he should’ve been booted out of Pakistan’s ODI team along with Misbah.

The reason I want to address is this because what I don’t want is for you to tag/respond to me merely to make the same accusations again in another thread. I find that quite disingenuous.

 

[Rana]

Bhai tera only dishes out stunners. No runners here

Oh bhai pehle yeh to decide Kar whether Misbah was a middle order batter or finisher? Stunner baad main de de!

 

[daytrader]

You are doing a runner because you have dodged this question 3 times.

I will ask you again, did you watch Misbah’s innings in the 2011 WC SF live?

100% I watch all India vs Pak games. In fact I hosted that match at my university with both Pakistani and Indian supporters in one hall.

The overall mood was we were going to win as long as Misbah was there and if he could get support from the other end. Sadly wasn't meant to be and instead of a celebratory party, we ended up getting consolations from bhartiya girls, cakes included

The other point I want to clear up with you is about this accusation that “I only go after Misbah”. This is not true even in the slightest. I’ve told you on two occasions about YK, who is my all-time favourite Pakistan player, that he should’ve been booted out of Pakistan’s ODI team along with Misbah.

You've only done this after being put on the spot. But Misbah's name you drop in every post.

 

[manzoor.syed]

100% I watch all India vs Pak games. In fact I hosted that match at my university with both Pakistani and Indian supporters in one hall.

The overall mood was we were going to win as long as Misbah was there and if he could get support from the other end. Sadly wasn't meant to be and instead of a celebratory party, we ended up getting consolations from bhartiya girls, cakes included





You've only done this after being put on the spot. But Misbah's name you drop in every post.

If Misbah was such a big match player than why does he not feature in any of Pakistans top ODI stats?? He is not even close to other Pakistanis in terms of Man of the match or Man of the series performances. Players like Hafeez easily dominated him even after he was banned from bowling, he had better impact with batting alone.

This guy does not even have an ODI hundred to his name and would justify his timid approach saying that he comes in at 10-2 or 20-3 that’s why he has to play defensive. Surely if you are coming in during the powerplay you can still play positively like other teams.

Even in that era 2010-2015 most teams maintained healthy strike rates above 90. Misbahs issue was tuk tuk and then hit a few boundaries once the games lost. He put pressure on the non strikers and the whole team with his approach. No strike rotation just dots or boundaries like Babar does these days after his 50.

I don’t understand how people still glorify his ODI performances? He should have retired from this format long before 2015. In tests he was okay in UAE and Asia as his approach was more suited. He did well in the UAE with a good established team, not on his own. Younis Khan, Azhar Ali & Asad Shafiq deserve just as much credit and the quality spinners for UAE Saaed Ajmal, Yasir Shah, Zulfiqar Babar, Hafeez.

It was a team performance and on the basis of his record in the UAE his pathetic ODI performances are being justified.

 

[topspin]

If Misbah was such a big match player than why does he not feature in any of Pakistans top ODI stats?? He is not even close to other Pakistanis in terms of Man of the match or Man of the series performances. Players like Hafeez easily dominated him even after he was banned from bowling, he had better impact with batting alone.

This guy does not even have an ODI hundred to his name and would justify his timid approach saying that he comes in at 10-2 or 20-3 that’s why he has to play defensive. Surely if you are coming in during the powerplay you can still play positively like other teams.

Even in that era 2010-2015 most teams maintained healthy strike rates above 90. Misbahs issue was tuk tuk and then hit a few boundaries once the games lost. He put pressure on the non strikers and the whole team with his approach. No strike rotation just dots or boundaries like Babar does these days after his 50.

I don’t understand how people still glorify his ODI performances? He should have retired from this format long before 2015. In tests he was okay in UAE and Asia as his approach was more suited. He did well in the UAE with a good established team, not on his own. Younis Khan, Azhar Ali & Asad Shafiq deserve just as much credit and the quality spinners for UAE Saaed Ajmal, Yasir Shah, Zulfiqar Babar, Hafeez.

It was a team performance and on the basis of his record in the UAE his pathetic ODI performances are being justified.

Brilliant post. One of the best on this thread.

You need to post more often.

 

[topspin]

100% I watch all India vs Pak games. In fact I hosted that match at my university with both Pakistani and Indian supporters in one hall.

The overall mood was we were going to win as long as Misbah was there and if he could get support from the other end. Sadly wasn't meant to be and instead of a celebratory party, we ended up getting consolations from bhartiya girls, cakes included

This is Misbah mentality. Cutting cake after losing a WC SF.

You've only done this after being put on the spot. But Misbah's name you drop in every post.

You do realise I've gone after other Pakistan captains as well including Inzamam, Shahid Afridi and Sarfraz.

Pakistan have only had two tactically astute captains since the turn of the century.

 

[Nabeel23]

I actually like Misbah the player for what he done for Pakistan in 2010 but he played an awful innings in that 2011 Semi Final.

All he had to do was rotate the strike in the middle overs, it wasn’t a big chase. Him and YK both ruined that chase with their selfish slow approach.

I think we were about 70-2 in the first 15 overs, even if he had kept the rate at just over 5 by playing risk free cricket we would have eventually won. They only had 5 bowlers in that game and Yuvraj was the 5th bowler! I think we ended up going at around 3.5 in those middle overs and that’s what eventually cost us the game. We were batting till 8 with Wahab at 9, Gul at 10 and they both could wack it a few. So there was actually no need to block because the batting was deep.

Interestingly the same two batsman played very well on the same ground in 2007 and that was chasing 320. Younis actually got a 100 at a strike rate over 100 and Misbah had played a good supporting innings. So I really don’t know what the management were thinking by agreeing to that stupid game plan.

18 months prior to the semi final game, we had beaten them with Malik and Yousuf batting at 4 and 5. Both played terrific innings and I firmly believe that if it was them playing that semi then we would have chased it down. They might have gotten out early but they would have never selfishly blocked and blocked and then put pressure on the rest of the batting.

 

[Major]

I actually like Misbah the player for what he done for Pakistan in 2010 but he played an awful innings in that 2011 Semi Final.

All he had to do was rotate the strike in the middle overs, it wasn’t a big chase. Him and YK both ruined that chase with their selfish slow approach.

I think we were about 70-2 in the first 15 overs, even if he had kept the rate at just over 5 by playing risk free cricket we would have eventually won. They only had 5 bowlers in that game and Yuvraj was the 5th bowler! I think we ended up going at around 3.5 in those middle overs and that’s what eventually cost us the game. We were batting till 8 with Wahab at 9, Gul at 10 and they both could wack it a few. So there was actually no need to block because the batting was deep.

Interestingly the same two batsman played very well on the same ground in 2007 and that was chasing 320. Younis actually got a 100 at a strike rate over 100 and Misbah had played a good supporting innings. So I really don’t know what the management were thinking by agreeing to that stupid game plan.

18 months prior to the semi final game, we had beaten them with Malik and Yousuf batting at 4 and 5. Both played terrific innings and I firmly believe that if it was them playing that semi then we would have chased it down. They might have gotten out early but they would have never selfishly blocked and blocked and then put pressure on the rest of the batting.

Afridi was the captain and this plan was developed during the series with NZ in 2010.

 

[zaidihusain]

I actually like Misbah the player for what he done for Pakistan in 2010 but he played an awful innings in that 2011 Semi Final.

All he had to do was rotate the strike in the middle overs, it wasn’t a big chase. Him and YK both ruined that chase with their selfish slow approach.

I think we were about 70-2 in the first 15 overs, even if he had kept the rate at just over 5 by playing risk free cricket we would have eventually won. They only had 5 bowlers in that game and Yuvraj was the 5th bowler! I think we ended up going at around 3.5 in those middle overs and that’s what eventually cost us the game. We were batting till 8 with Wahab at 9, Gul at 10 and they both could wack it a few. So there was actually no need to block because the batting was deep.

Interestingly the same two batsman played very well on the same ground in 2007 and that was chasing 320. Younis actually got a 100 at a strike rate over 100 and Misbah had played a good supporting innings. So I really don’t know what the management were thinking by agreeing to that stupid game plan.

18 months prior to the semi final game, we had beaten them with Malik and Yousuf batting at 4 and 5. Both played terrific innings and I firmly believe that if it was them playing that semi then we would have chased it down. They might have gotten out early but they would have never selfishly blocked and blocked and then put pressure on the rest of the batting.

Hafeez, Younis & Afridi were big culprit in 2007 T20 final loss and Misbah, Younis & Afridi were responsible for 2011 SF loss. Both these games should have been won easily but in ended up in heartbreak

 

[Nabeel23]

Afridi was the captain and this plan was developed during the series with NZ in 2010.

Yes and I blame them too but as a senior batsman batting in the middle, you should know the plan isn’t working so it’s time to go to Plan B. In these scenarios you have to be proactive and not reactive.

The Indian bowling then was nowhere near the level it is now. They didn’t even bowl extraordinary on that day, they just kept it tight as possible and we made it easy for them by continuously blocking.

I still remember everyone here having a meltdown on the commentary thread that day. Misbah takes most blame for that defeat, he batted like a coward.

 

[Major]

Yes and I blame them too but as a senior batsman batting in the middle, you should know the plan isn’t working so it’s time to go to Plan B. In these scenarios you have to be proactive and not reactive.

The Indian bowling then was nowhere near the level it is now. They didn’t even bowl extraordinary on that day, they just kept it tight as possible and we made it easy for them by continuously blocking.

I still remember everyone here having a meltdown on the commentary thread that day. Misbah takes most blame for that defeat, he batted like a coward.

It was a collective failiure. Younis khan, Shafiq, Afridi, Akmal, razzaq and Afridi all were to be blamed.

Misbah got the hate because he turned out to be the last man standing in this act.

Khair its very old. Its like me hating on younis for the 2009 ct catch drop of grant elliot or afridi world t20 2007 final 0..

 

[manzoor.syed]

Analysis generated through Chatgpt for Misbah's innings in Mohali semi final 2011 - for the lockdown kids who only see his UAE test stats and justify his innings.

Misbah Spent almost 26 overs at the crease got his first boundary after 15 overs in the 40th over of the innings.. The run rate never went above 4 while he was at the crease, the RRR climbed from 6.07 to 12.20 till the batting powerplay was taken.

It literally doubled in 20 overs while Misbah was at the crease. Run a ball was required but he completely lost it out there, playing dot after dot and made the non strikers take risks and they eventually lost their wickets.

Got his own 50 and completed 2000 ODI runs but it did not look like he was playing for a Pakistan win out there.

Over​	Runs in Over​	Score​	CRR​	RRR​	Misbah-ul-Haq​
24	3 + 1 wicket (Asad Shafiq 30 off 39b)	103/3	4.29	6.07	0 (1b) - Misbah comes to the crease with 26 overs remaining 158 off 156 required
25	3	106/3	4.24	6.20	1 (3b)
26	Wicket maiden (Younis Khan 13 off 32b)	106/4	4.07	6.45	1 (3b) - Younis Khan out after a poor innings still 155 off 142 was manageable
27	6	112/4	4.14	6.47	3 (5b)
28	5	117/4	4.17	6.54	6 (8b)
29	1	118/4	4.06	6.80	6 (10b)
30	12	130/4	4.33	6.55	7 (12b)
31	2	132/4	4.25	6.78	8 (17b)
32	9	141/4	4.40	6.66	8 (19b)
33	1	142/4	4.30	7.00	8 (24b)
34	2 + 1 wicket (Umar Akmal 29 off 24b)	144/5	4.23	7.31	9 (25b) - Umar Akmal out 117 off 96 required
35	2	146/5	4.17	7.66	10 (30b)
36	2	148/5	4.11	8.07	11 (33b)
37	4 + 1 wicket (Abdul Razzaq 3 off 9b)	152/6	4.10	8.38	13 (36b) - Abdul Razzaq out 109 off 78 required
38	11	163/6	4.28	8.16	16 (39b)
39	5	168/6	4.30	8.45	17 (42b)
40	9	177/6	4.42	8.40	23 (45b) - (Misbahs first boundary after 15 overs at the crease...)
41	4	181/6	4.41	8.88	25 (48b)
42	3 + 1 wicket (Shahid Afridi 19 off 17b)	184/7	4.38	9.62	26 (51b) - Shahid Afridi out 77 off 48 required
43	8	192/7	4.46	9.85	27 (52b)
44	7	199/7	4.52	10.33	32 (54b)
45	1 + 1 wicket (Wahab Riaz 8 off 14b)	200/8	4.44	12.20	33 (55b) - Why was the batting power play taken so late with Wahab at the crease
46	8	208/8	4.52	13.25	39 (59b)
47	2 + 1 wicket (Umar Gul 2 off 3b)	210/9	4.46	17.00	40 (60b)
48	14	224/9	4.66	18.50	49 (66b)
49	7	231/9	4.71	30.00	56 (71b)

49.5 0 runs + 1 wicket (Misbah 56 off 76b) 231/10 4.63 30.00 56(76b)

 

[Hitman]

Analysis generated through Chatgpt for Misbah's innings in Mohali semi final 2011 - for the lockdown kids who only see his UAE test stats and justify his innings.

Misbah Spent almost 26 overs at the crease got his first boundary after 15 overs in the 40th over of the innings.. The run rate never went above 4 while he was at the crease, the RRR climbed from 6.07 to 12.20 till the batting powerplay was taken.

It literally doubled in 20 overs while Misbah was at the crease. Run a ball was required but he completely lost it out there, playing dot after dot and made the non strikers take risks and they eventually lost their wickets.

Got his own 50 and completed 2000 ODI runs but it did not look like he was playing for a Pakistan win out there.

Over​	Runs in Over​	Score​	CRR​	RRR​	Misbah-ul-Haq​
24	3 + 1 wicket (Asad Shafiq 30 off 39b)	103/3	4.29	6.07	0 (1b) - Misbah comes to the crease with 26 overs remaining 158 off 156 required
25	3	106/3	4.24	6.20	1 (3b)
26	Wicket maiden (Younis Khan 13 off 32b)	106/4	4.07	6.45	1 (3b) - Younis Khan out after a poor innings still 155 off 142 was manageable
27	6	112/4	4.14	6.47	3 (5b)
28	5	117/4	4.17	6.54	6 (8b)
29	1	118/4	4.06	6.80	6 (10b)
30	12	130/4	4.33	6.55	7 (12b)
31	2	132/4	4.25	6.78	8 (17b)
32	9	141/4	4.40	6.66	8 (19b)
33	1	142/4	4.30	7.00	8 (24b)
34	2 + 1 wicket (Umar Akmal 29 off 24b)	144/5	4.23	7.31	9 (25b) - Umar Akmal out 117 off 96 required
35	2	146/5	4.17	7.66	10 (30b)
36	2	148/5	4.11	8.07	11 (33b)
37	4 + 1 wicket (Abdul Razzaq 3 off 9b)	152/6	4.10	8.38	13 (36b) - Abdul Razzaq out 109 off 78 required
38	11	163/6	4.28	8.16	16 (39b)
39	5	168/6	4.30	8.45	17 (42b)
40	9	177/6	4.42	8.40	23 (45b) - (Misbahs first boundary after 15 overs at the crease...)
41	4	181/6	4.41	8.88	25 (48b)
42	3 + 1 wicket (Shahid Afridi 19 off 17b)	184/7	4.38	9.62	26 (51b) - Shahid Afridi out 77 off 48 required
43	8	192/7	4.46	9.85	27 (52b)
44	7	199/7	4.52	10.33	32 (54b)
45	1 + 1 wicket (Wahab Riaz 8 off 14b)	200/8	4.44	12.20	33 (55b) - Why was the batting power play taken so late with Wahab at the crease
46	8	208/8	4.52	13.25	39 (59b)
47	2 + 1 wicket (Umar Gul 2 off 3b)	210/9	4.46	17.00	40 (60b)
48	14	224/9	4.66	18.50	49 (66b)
49	7	231/9	4.71	30.00	56 (71b)

49.5 0 runs + 1 wicket (Misbah 56 off 76b) 231/10 4.63 30.00 56(76b)

He got intense and brute hate from Pakistani fans after that innings.

 

[mominsaigol]

He got intense and brute hate from Pakistani fans after that innings.

Playing at a strike rate of 95-110 in 2011-2012 in t20 and playing at a sr of 74 post 2012? Why would he not get hate?

This is an era in which Babar can strike at a higher rate then Sachin, yet if you ask anyone who was the more aggressive batsmen, I'm pretty sure they would send you in a mental asylum.

It's also why I never understood the whole Sachin stat padding slow nonsense from my fellow Pakistani brothers either.

He was more aggressive then Ponting in odi and I view Ponting as one of the most aggressive batsmen of all time.

 

[Hitman]

Playing at a strike rate of 95-110 in 2011-2012 in t20 and playing at a sr of 74 post 2012? Why would he not get hate?

This is an era in which Babar can strike at a higher rate then Sachin, yet if you ask anyone who was the more aggressive batsmen, I'm pretty sure they would send you in a mental asylum.

It's also why I never understood the whole Sachin stat padding slow nonsense from my fellow Pakistani brothers either.

He was more aggressive then Ponting in odi and I view Ponting as one of the most aggressive batsmen of all time.

It's plain jealousy and inferiority complex.

 

[mominsaigol]

It's plain jealousy and inferiority complex.

What's crazy is that he came at a time when India was rubbish and talent wasn't present.

In this era Indian youngsters have access to IPL where they can network with international batters and bowlers, access to world class cricketing facilities etc etc.

Sachin came at a time when India was absolutely rubbish. They became gun as a test side in 2000's but team India from 1996-1998 was hilariously bad.

 

[Kianig89]

He got intense and brute hate from Pakistani fans after that innings.

He should be in HOS rather than HOF

 

[Rana]

He should be in HOS rather than HOF

Yet you insist on his methods. Where should you be if that’s the case HO Duckett?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Analysis generated through Chatgpt for Misbah's innings in Mohali semi final 2011 - for the lockdown kids who only see his UAE test stats and justify his innings.

Misbah Spent almost 26 overs at the crease got his first boundary after 15 overs in the 40th over of the innings.. The run rate never went above 4 while he was at the crease, the RRR climbed from 6.07 to 12.20 till the batting powerplay was taken.

It literally doubled in 20 overs while Misbah was at the crease. Run a ball was required but he completely lost it out there, playing dot after dot and made the non strikers take risks and they eventually lost their wickets.

Got his own 50 and completed 2000 ODI runs but it did not look like he was playing for a Pakistan win out there.

Over​	Runs in Over​	Score​	CRR​	RRR​	Misbah-ul-Haq​
24	3 + 1 wicket (Asad Shafiq 30 off 39b)	103/3	4.29	6.07	0 (1b) - Misbah comes to the crease with 26 overs remaining 158 off 156 required
25	3	106/3	4.24	6.20	1 (3b)
26	Wicket maiden (Younis Khan 13 off 32b)	106/4	4.07	6.45	1 (3b) - Younis Khan out after a poor innings still 155 off 142 was manageable
27	6	112/4	4.14	6.47	3 (5b)
28	5	117/4	4.17	6.54	6 (8b)
29	1	118/4	4.06	6.80	6 (10b)
30	12	130/4	4.33	6.55	7 (12b)
31	2	132/4	4.25	6.78	8 (17b)
32	9	141/4	4.40	6.66	8 (19b)
33	1	142/4	4.30	7.00	8 (24b)
34	2 + 1 wicket (Umar Akmal 29 off 24b)	144/5	4.23	7.31	9 (25b) - Umar Akmal out 117 off 96 required
35	2	146/5	4.17	7.66	10 (30b)
36	2	148/5	4.11	8.07	11 (33b)
37	4 + 1 wicket (Abdul Razzaq 3 off 9b)	152/6	4.10	8.38	13 (36b) - Abdul Razzaq out 109 off 78 required
38	11	163/6	4.28	8.16	16 (39b)
39	5	168/6	4.30	8.45	17 (42b)
40	9	177/6	4.42	8.40	23 (45b) - (Misbahs first boundary after 15 overs at the crease...)
41	4	181/6	4.41	8.88	25 (48b)
42	3 + 1 wicket (Shahid Afridi 19 off 17b)	184/7	4.38	9.62	26 (51b) - Shahid Afridi out 77 off 48 required
43	8	192/7	4.46	9.85	27 (52b)
44	7	199/7	4.52	10.33	32 (54b)
45	1 + 1 wicket (Wahab Riaz 8 off 14b)	200/8	4.44	12.20	33 (55b) - Why was the batting power play taken so late with Wahab at the crease
46	8	208/8	4.52	13.25	39 (59b)
47	2 + 1 wicket (Umar Gul 2 off 3b)	210/9	4.46	17.00	40 (60b)
48	14	224/9	4.66	18.50	49 (66b)
49	7	231/9	4.71	30.00	56 (71b)

49.5 0 runs + 1 wicket (Misbah 56 off 76b) 231/10 4.63 30.00 56(76b)

I dont get this extreme hate for this innings. Pakistan is basically 106/4 in 26 overs. Misbah had just joined in.
Your entire top order could hardly score at 4 RPO. That clearly shows that batting was not easy for Pakistani batsmen. All the numbers showed is that atleast Misbah provided some sort of respect for Pakistani total.
By the time Misbah came, game was already done. One hardly wins when the top order gets bundled out within 25 overs @4 RPO.

Misbah is not perfect but getting to 84 runs needed in last 10 overs with 4 wickets in hand sounds not so bad compared to 160 needed in 24 overs with 6 wickets in hand. His presence allowed Akmal and Afridi to tee off a bit.
I have NEVER HEARD a blame on younis Khan for his 13 runs of 32 balls. Infact learnt from this table only.

Let's look at India's innings shall we, Sachin scored 85 from 111 Balls. That's a DAMN SLOW innings . A SR of 74, Dhoni Scored 25 from 42, A SR of 59. No one ever cries about that.
India was 141/3 in 25 overs and just scored 60 runs till the over 40.
NO ONE BLAMES DHONI & SRT. The pitch was not a batting paradise and it shows.

Hafeez scored 43 from 59 a SR of 72, Asad Shafiq scored 30 from 39 a SR of 77, Younis Khan with GODLY SR of 40 for his 13.

Pakistanis just love to have the one "MATCH KA MUJRIM" and lay the blame all on that person because it is easy to digest and process.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

I dont get this extreme hate for this innings. Pakistan is basically 106/4 in 26 overs. Misbah had just joined in.
Your entire top order could hardly score at 4 RPO. That clearly shows that batting was not easy for Pakistani batsmen. All the numbers showed is that atleast Misbah provided some sort of respect for Pakistani total.
By the time Misbah came, game was already done. One hardly wins when the top order gets bundled out within 25 overs @4 RPO.

Misbah is not perfect but getting to 84 runs needed in last 10 overs with 4 wickets in hand sounds not so bad compared to 160 needed in 24 overs with 6 wickets in hand. His presence allowed Akmal and Afridi to tee off a bit.
I have NEVER HEARD a blame on younis Khan for his 13 runs of 32 balls. Infact learnt from this table only.

Let's look at India's innings shall we, Sachin scored 85 from 111 Balls. That's a DAMN SLOW innings . A SR of 74, Dhoni Scored 25 from 42, A SR of 59. No one ever cries about that.
India was 141/3 in 25 overs and just scored 60 runs till the over 40.
NO ONE BLAMES DHONI & SRT. The pitch was not a batting paradise and it shows.

Hafeez scored 43 from 59 a SR of 72, Asad Shafiq scored 30 from 39 a SR of 77, Younis Khan with GODLY SR of 40 for his 13.

Pakistanis just love to have the one "MATCH KA MUJRIM" and lay the blame all on that person because it is easy to digest and process.

Adding, India RR went from over 8 in first 10 overs to below 4.8 by the 42th over.
No one could perform fast except Sehwag. Pitch was difficult that day but lets just blame Misbah!

 

[manzoor.syed]

I dont get this extreme hate for this innings. Pakistan is basically 106/4 in 26 overs. Misbah had just joined in.
Your entire top order could hardly score at 4 RPO. That clearly shows that batting was not easy for Pakistani batsmen. All the numbers showed is that atleast Misbah provided some sort of respect for Pakistani total.
By the time Misbah came, game was already done. One hardly wins when the top order gets bundled out within 25 overs @4 RPO.

Misbah is not perfect but getting to 84 runs needed in last 10 overs with 4 wickets in hand sounds not so bad compared to 160 needed in 24 overs with 6 wickets in hand. His presence allowed Akmal and Afridi to tee off a bit.
I have NEVER HEARD a blame on younis Khan for his 13 runs of 32 balls. Infact learnt from this table only.

Let's look at India's innings shall we, Sachin scored 85 from 111 Balls. That's a DAMN SLOW innings . A SR of 74, Dhoni Scored 25 from 42, A SR of 59. No one ever cries about that.
India was 141/3 in 25 overs and just scored 60 runs till the over 40.
NO ONE BLAMES DHONI & SRT. The pitch was not a batting paradise and it shows.

Hafeez scored 43 from 59 a SR of 72, Asad Shafiq scored 30 from 39 a SR of 77, Younis Khan with GODLY SR of 40 for his 13.

Pakistanis just love to have the one "MATCH KA MUJRIM" and lay the blame all on that person because it is easy to digest and process.

Obviously it’s a team game so you can’t pin the entire blame on one individual but he was out there for 26 overs so he was the main culprit. A bit like some Indian fans blaming Dhoni for the 2019 Semi final loss when top 3 were out early at around 5-3 if I remember correctly.

You can’t be chasing in a World Cup semi final taking 15 overs to get your first boundary though at the highest level as a senior batsman. There was no intent from him, even the commentators were shocked at the approach and criticised his style of play. I remember Ramiz fuming saying he either plays dots or goes for the big heave there’s no in between game. Misbah was also the first one to drop Sachin that day the most costly one, and then the usual drops from the Akmal brothers. Any SENA team would’ve taken 4/4 of those catches.

Yes Younis Khan and Asad Shafiq also played a hand in pushing the RRR up but when Misbah arrived it was run a ball. Had he rotated the strike better a bit earlier in the innings, it would’ve broken the bowlers rhythm, allowing for a loose ball he could have put away and it would’ve taken the game deeper that could have gone either way. 29 runs isn’t a big margin. They had no momentum in the middle apart from a few boundaries from Umar Akmal and Afridi who both fell under pressure trying to play catch up with the RRR.

I would say 50% of the blame should be on Misbah, 30% on senior batters, 20% on fielding and poor captaincy and tactics from Afridi, I think he genuinely forgot about the batting powerplay in such a high pressure match, I don’t understand why it was taken in the 45th over with Wahab at the crease, then poor bowling from Umar Gul on Sehwags pads and then at the death vs Raina.

I wouldn’t blame Hafeez too much, he played a poor shot but gave a good start with Kamran Akmal, that was the only part of the chase where they had any sort of momentum. They lost the plot in the middle overs. People also forget Hafeez played a big part in restricting the total to 260. He was the most economical bowler for Pakistan that day 10 overs conceding 34 runs @ 3.40 and the important wicket of Gautam Gambhir who plays spin well when it looked like 300 was likely. Could have also picked up Sachin if it wasn’t for Umar Akmals drop catch. Only Ashish Nehra bowled at a better economy than Hafeez in that Match with 10 overs 2 for 33 @ 3.30

The most disappointing thing was that everyone knew Misbah had the ability to clear the ropes. He was always a good striker of the ball be it vs pace or spin, just not good at reading the situation, left it far too late when the wickets had already tumbled and 30 off 6 was required. He also got more hate because this wasn’t the first time he crumbled under pressure, fans remembered the 2007 t20 final where he played that brain fade scoop shot.

Dhoni and Sachin don’t get blamed cause India won so no one focused on strike rates. If they had lost the match they most likely would have been bashed like Dhoni was in the 2019 World Cup.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Obviously it’s a team game so you can’t pin the entire blame on one individual but he was out there for 26 overs so he was the main culprit. A bit like some Indian fans blaming Dhoni for the 2019 Semi final loss when top 3 were out early at around 5-3 if I remember correctly.

You can’t be chasing in a World Cup semi final taking 15 overs to get your first boundary though at the highest level as a senior batsman. There was no intent from him, even the commentators were shocked at the approach and criticised his style of play. I remember Ramiz fuming saying he either plays dots or goes for the big heave there’s no in between game. Misbah was also the first one to drop Sachin that day the most costly one, and then the usual drops from the Akmal brothers. Any SENA team would’ve taken 4/4 of those catches.

Yes Younis Khan and Asad Shafiq also played a hand in pushing the RRR up but when Misbah arrived it was run a ball. Had he rotated the strike better a bit earlier in the innings, it would’ve broken the bowlers rhythm, allowing for a loose ball he could have put away and it would’ve taken the game deeper that could have gone either way. 29 runs isn’t a big margin. They had no momentum in the middle apart from a few boundaries from Umar Akmal and Afridi who both fell under pressure trying to play catch up with the RRR.

I would say 50% of the blame should be on Misbah, 30% on senior batters, 20% on fielding and poor captaincy and tactics from Afridi, I think he genuinely forgot about the batting powerplay in such a high pressure match, I don’t understand why it was taken in the 45th over with Wahab at the crease, then poor bowling from Umar Gul on Sehwags pads and then at the death vs Raina.

I wouldn’t blame Hafeez too much, he played a poor shot but gave a good start with Kamran Akmal, that was the only part of the chase where they had any sort of momentum. They lost the plot in the middle overs. People also forget Hafeez played a big part in restricting the total to 260. He was the most economical bowler for Pakistan that day 10 overs conceding 34 runs @ 3.40 and the important wicket of Gautam Gambhir who plays spin well when it looked like 300 was likely. Could have also picked up Sachin if it wasn’t for Umar Akmals drop catch. Only Ashish Nehra bowled at a better economy than Hafeez in that Match with 10 overs 2 for 33 @ 3.30

The most disappointing thing was that everyone knew Misbah had the ability to clear the ropes. He was always a good striker of the ball be it vs pace or spin, just not good at reading the situation, left it far too late when the wickets had already tumbled and 30 off 6 was required. He also got more hate because this wasn’t the first time he crumbled under pressure, fans remembered the 2007 t20 final where he played that brain fade scoop shot.

Dhoni and Sachin don’t get blamed cause India won so no one focused on strike rates. If they had lost the match they most likely would have been bashed like Dhoni was in the 2019 World Cup.

Bhai, pitch sucked. Look at what Indian batting managed in that very game. Sachin's SR was 73, Dhoni's SR was 59.
Pakistan would have lost the game by 100 runs if Misbah didnt anchor the innings.
Your entire batting line up sucked in the game, Afridi as usual escaped all blame by hitting one boundary and throwing his wicket away. and all this Misbah blaming for 2011 is coming in fabricated narratives recently. I dont remember Misbah being blamed like this in 2011. Most of the controversy was about the lbw DRS.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Bhai, pitch sucked. Look at what Indian batting managed in that very game. Sachin's SR was 73, Dhoni's SR was 59.
Pakistan would have lost the game by 100 runs if Misbah didnt anchor the innings.
Your entire batting line up sucked in the game, Afridi as usual escaped all blame by hitting one boundary and throwing his wicket away. and all this Misbah blaming for 2011 is coming in fabricated narratives recently. I dont remember Misbah being blamed like this in 2011. Most of the controversy was about the lbw DRS.

You are defending Misbah better than his fanboys and I know you are not serious

 

[topspin]

You are defending Misbah better than his fanboys and I know you are not serious

Misbah will get some fans from India, who have a soft spot for him because he was their 12th man in Mohali that day.

 

[topspin]

Yet you insist on his methods. Where should you be if that’s the case HO Duckett?

Yep, doesn't seem to understand the cricket philopshy his mind is confined to.

 

[manzoor.syed]

Bhai, pitch sucked. Look at what Indian batting managed in that very game. Sachin's SR was 73, Dhoni's SR was 59.
Pakistan would have lost the game by 100 runs if Misbah didnt anchor the innings.
Your entire batting line up sucked in the game, Afridi as usual escaped all blame by hitting one boundary and throwing his wicket away. and all this Misbah blaming for 2011 is coming in fabricated narratives recently. I dont remember Misbah being blamed like this in 2011. Most of the controversy was about the lbw DRS.

Bhai, yes the pitch wasn’t ideal but these are professional players, there’s no excuse for that approach. He took 15 overs to get a boundary, he wasn’t a tail ender and had ability for the big shouts. Should’ve showed intent from the start at least with 1s and 2s. 17 off 42 in a high pressure chase is inexcusable.

At least Sachin put the bad balls away and got boundaries while riding his luck. Plus he was opening he had enough time to make up for his strike rate had he got his 100 and carried the bat through. Misbah came in during a different situation in a chase, should have played accordingly.

With Afridi everyone knows he was more of a hack who performed once every 10 games with the bat. Someone with a career average of 23 after 400 games is not gonna win you many games with batting alone, he was only good for batting in the last 5 overs of an innings.

But yes all seniors should be blamed for that ordinary chase. Misbah stands out because he was there for half the innings so he needed to own the chase like Kohli does no matter how difficult the conditions and situation are. Here Misbah was playing so negatively hoping the other batsman would come cover for him in the last phase of the innings, by then the game was already lost with Wahab batting in the power play.

I still remember Kohli’s 50 in the 2016 Asia cup when they were chasing 84. Those were also horrible batting conditions but he dug it out. Thats the difference between an average player and a great player.

On top of that the clueless PCB decided to give him another 2015 World Cup that too as captain when it was clear him and YK were not suited for the format.

DRS controversy is irrelevant even if there was a technological error they dropped him 4 times after that so blame the poor fielding.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Bhai, yes the pitch wasn’t ideal but these are professional players, there’s no excuse for that approach. He took 15 overs to get a boundary, he wasn’t a tail ender and had ability for the big shouts. Should’ve showed intent from the start at least with 1s and 2s. 17 off 42 in a high pressure chase is inexcusable.

At least Sachin put the bad balls away and got boundaries while riding his luck. Plus he was opening he had enough time to make up for his strike rate had he got his 100 and carried the bat through. Misbah came in during a different situation in a chase, should have played accordingly.

With Afridi everyone knows he was more of a hack who performed once every 10 games with the bat. Someone with a career average of 23 after 400 games is not gonna win you many games with batting alone, he was only good for batting in the last 5 overs of an innings.

But yes all seniors should be blamed for that ordinary chase. Misbah stands out because he was there for half the innings so he needed to own the chase like Kohli does no matter how difficult the conditions and situation are. Here Misbah was playing so negatively hoping the other batsman would come cover for him in the last phase of the innings, by then the game was already lost with Wahab batting in the power play.

I still remember Kohli’s 50 in the 2016 Asia cup when they were chasing 84. Those were also horrible batting conditions but he dug it out. Thats the difference between an average player and a great player.

On top of that the clueless PCB decided to give him another 2015 World Cup that too as captain when it was clear him and YK were not suited for the format.

DRS controversy is irrelevant even if there was a technological error they dropped him 4 times after that so blame the poor fielding.

Lol, what a logic !!!

1. Sachin had same strike rate as Misbah but still Misbah to blame
2. Dhoni brought India's RR from 6 to below 5 while batting .. still Misbah is to blame
3. Younis Khan , Shafiq and hafeez lost the game in the first half .... still Misbah to blame
4. and AFRIDI, who was the CAPTAIN, ooh he is just a hack, so he will ride his freebie for 20 years dooming Pakistan cricket but you guys will STILL have MISBAH to BLAME !!
5. Afridi as captain, talks about Kashmir at the toss, but we will still blame Misbah ...

What a logic . At least you are trying to talks in terms on numbers, by this time99% of the responses resort to just name calling. and I respect you for that. But Misbah was the one stabilizing pillar after the horrible spot fixing scandal.
Pakistani psyche is still enamored by the one off Afridi blitz and let him wreck Pakistan cricket forever. Your analysis just proves that. Afridi's failures are always brushed aside even though he was the bloody captain in thie world cup.
In several threads, I see him getting praised for taking Pakistan to Semi-final. What a lucky man Afridi is . Always the praise never the blame.

I only remember these little things from that match.
1. Sachin's DRS and dropped catches
2. Painfully slow batting by India
3. Yuvraj taking our Shafiq and Younis in quick succession
4. and still kinda worrying as long Misbah was on the crease because of the scare he gave us in 2007 T20 world cup final.

All this Misbah blaming has started recently and just revisionism of his contribution to Pakistan cricket. Long term sustained growth path is quite boring and one has to pass through a phase of mediocrity to reach the pinnacle. Misbah was the best available route taken by Pakistan in last 2 decades. Rejection of legacy of Misbah, and now Babar Azam and Rizwan just shows the core problem of Pakistan. People are just jealous of anyone at top, by time whenever the guy at the top stumbles knives are out enmasse. Pakistani public is just in love the flashy highlights of the past, that's why the immunity to Afridi, Imran, Wasim and Waqar.

 

[Sachin fan]

Misbah will get some fans from India, who have a soft spot for him because he was their 12th man in Mohali that day.

Every single pakistani player was 12th man that day, it's only your biasedness which makes you single him out. That stat shown destroys your argument.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Misbah will get some fans from India, who have a soft spot for him because he was their 12th man in Mohali that day.

There is a reason we had hardworking legends who raised our level, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir, Pujara, Kumble. Not flashy but honest hardworking pillars for the team. Pakistani public is so obsessed with Afridi single ball ducks, such players like those mentioned above never get to be the stabilizing force.
With limited team resources and skills, Misbah over delivered for Pakistan instead of appreciating that Pakistani posters are out blaming him for everything.
Dravid, Pujara, Laxman often failed to get us to the top but we appreciate their contribution to Indian cricket, but Pakistani posters are still chasing the glory of irresponsible Afridi batting, lunatic captaincy.

Our opinion hardly matters, We know that Misbah was the scary thing for us in T20 World Cup final and 2011 World Cup Semi Final. Afridi was always the walking wicket and he always proved that in critical games against us. Afridi has been our 12th man for 2 decades . Please continue glorifying the irresponsible playstyle of Afridi, It will only help us in mocking you more.

 

[daytrader]

If Misbah was such a big match player than why does he not feature in any of Pakistans top ODI stats?? He is not even close to other Pakistanis in terms of Man of the match or Man of the series performances. Players like Hafeez easily dominated him even after he was banned from bowling, he had better impact with batting alone.

Man of match/series awards don't indicate much. There's a direct correlation between number of matches played and getting awards. The more matches played equals to more chances of getting such awards. You mentioned Hafeez but even a mediocre player like him ended up playing about 60 more ODIs than Misbah. Plus with his bowling and being a top order batter, he had more chances to be the man of a match.

This guy does not even have an ODI hundred to his name and would justify his timid approach saying that he comes in at 10-2 or 20-3 that’s why he has to play defensive. Surely if you are coming in during the powerplay you can still play positively like other teams.

Just shows how selfless he was. He put the team first before personal milestones.

Even in that era 2010-2015 most teams maintained healthy strike rates above 90. Misbahs issue was tuk tuk and then hit a few boundaries once the games lost. He put pressure on the non strikers and the whole team with his approach. No strike rotation just dots or boundaries like Babar does these days after his 50.

I don't know how accurate the stat you're mentioning is. Would have to dig into that but even if they were striking at a better rate, most teams did not collapse like Pakistan. Misbah being primarily a lower middle order batter took responsibility to bat higher when our top order continuously failed.

I don’t understand how people still glorify his ODI performances? He should have retired from this format long before 2015.

He does have many ODI achievements. He was our top scorer in both the 2011 and 2015 World Cups. By 2015 he was past his sell by date but even at that age he was out performing the young guns.

In tests he was okay in UAE and Asia as his approach was more suited. He did well in the UAE with a good established team, not on his own. Younis Khan, Azhar Ali & Asad Shafiq deserve just as much credit and the quality spinners for UAE Saaed Ajmal, Yasir Shah, Zulfiqar Babar, Hafeez.

It was a team performance and on the basis of his record in the UAE his pathetic ODI performances are being justified.

Misbah jeetay toh it's a team performance, Misbah haare toh it's his fault.

Bro you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's either a team game or not. Let's be fair in criticism rather than scapegoating one individual

 

[daytrader]

This is Misbah mentality. Cutting cake after losing a WC SF.

Who said anything about cutting hum ne toh ussi din badla le liya tha, aap ne kya kiya

 

[topspin]

There is a reason we had hardworking legends who raised our level, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir, Pujara, Kumble. Not flashy but honest hardworking pillars for the team. Pakistani public is so obsessed with Afridi single ball ducks, such players like those mentioned above never get to be the stabilizing force.
With limited team resources and skills, Misbah over delivered for Pakistan instead of appreciating that Pakistani posters are out blaming him for everything.
Dravid, Pujara, Laxman often failed to get us to the top but we appreciate their contribution to Indian cricket, but Pakistani posters are still chasing the glory of irresponsible Afridi batting, lunatic captaincy.

Our opinion hardly matters, We know that Misbah was the scary thing for us in T20 World Cup final and 2011 World Cup Semi Final. Afridi was always the walking wicket and he always proved that in critical games against us. Afridi has been our 12th man for 2 decades . Please continue glorifying the irresponsible playstyle of Afridi, It will only help us in mocking you more.

Joke is on you for thinking I'm fan of Afridi.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Joke is on you for thinking I'm fan of Afridi.

Scapegoating misbah is trademark od afridi worshippers but not exclusive to them.
Misbah , and now babar and Rizwan were the best Pakistan got in last 20 years or so. But as usual the Pakistani mentality of just cursing at anyone who tries take responsibility.

I am not fan of musbah have often joked about babar and Rizwan when they were being hailed as GOATS by some posters. But they have delivered for Pakistan as per their capability.

As I said the only constant in Pakistan is the public cursing the one on top.

 

[sweep_shot]

There is no doubt Misbah changed Pakistan's cricket approach fundamentally. But, I think Misbah was a symptom and not the cause.

Real cause was the spotfixing saga. That event paved way for Misbah and his brand of cricket to settle.

It was like how Australia mellowed down after the sandpaper incident.

 

[Kianig89]

Is Faham ul Haq part of PSL in emerging players category that experience would have been vital for him , or Misbah failed to jot the dots

 

[Rana]

Is Faham ul Haq part of PSL in emerging players category that experience would have been vital for him , or Misbah failed to jot the dots

@Major

Why can’t your boys establish what they truly believe in? This is Misbah’s legacy???

 

[topspin]

Every single pakistani player was 12th man that day, it's only your biasedness which makes you single him out. That stat shown destroys your argument.

I think you need to take a leaf out of your fellow countryman @RyanRyan10 's book on how to conduct yourself.

 

[sweep_shot]

There is a reason we had hardworking legends who raised our level, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir, Pujara, Kumble. Not flashy but honest hardworking pillars for the team. Pakistani public is so obsessed with Afridi single ball ducks, such players like those mentioned above never get to be the stabilizing force.
With limited team resources and skills, Misbah over delivered for Pakistan instead of appreciating that Pakistani posters are out blaming him for everything.
Dravid, Pujara, Laxman often failed to get us to the top but we appreciate their contribution to Indian cricket, but Pakistani posters are still chasing the glory of irresponsible Afridi batting, lunatic captaincy.

Our opinion hardly matters, We know that Misbah was the scary thing for us in T20 World Cup final and 2011 World Cup Semi Final. Afridi was always the walking wicket and he always proved that in critical games against us. Afridi has been our 12th man for 2 decades . Please continue glorifying the irresponsible playstyle of Afridi, It will only help us in mocking you more.

Afridi definitely underachieved but he was a great utility player in ODI format. 8000+ ODI runs and close to 400 ODI wickets. He won many games on his own. He wasn't consistent but was a great ODI player. He was a package.

Anyway, don't derail the thread. Topic is Misbah.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

I believe you are a young kid (early-20's?). So, you didn't really watch Afridi or any player from that era. You probably checked Cricinfo stats and thought you figured everything out.

That's why you make so many ignorant posts.

Afridi definitely underachieved but he was a great utility player in ODI format. 8000+ ODI runs and close to 400 ODI wickets. He won many games on his own. He wasn't consistent but was a great ODI player. He was a package.

Anyway, don't derail the thread. Topic is Misbah.

Afridi was a walking wicket and india's 12th man, and the two world cup encounters of 2007 and 2011 prove that.
Misbah atleast took responsibility, but afridi came and afridi went

 

[BouncerGuy]

GUYS STAY ON TOPIC... PLEASE LOOK AT THE TOPIC AND TALK ACCORDINGLY. NO PERSONAL STUFF

 

[RyanRyan10]

Misbah will get some fans from India, who have a soft spot for him because he was their 12th man in Mohali that day.

I think you need to take a leaf out of your fellow countryman @RyanRyan10 's book on how to conduct yourself.

he conducts himself better than I used to do when during my initial phase on this forum. Anyways, I will give my opinion on this topic. Both sides need to understand each other's perspectives.

First of all, i haven't met a single Indian fan IRL who wasn't baffled with Misbah's approach. Moreover, it's not fair to compare his SR with others in that match, since they consistently maintained a certain pace throughout their innings, whereas Misbah batted like a tortoise and increased his SR only after the match was beyond redemption. Umar Akmal was trying to shift the momentum with his knock of 29 (24). In the same partnership, Misbah made 7 (21). This was downright pathetic. While not solely responsible, Misbah's approach was the worst among all batters as he didn't even attempt to step up the tempo.

Now I will give Indian perspective on why Misbah is more highly regarded compared to how he's perceived by Pakistan fans. One reason is his overall record against India. In the 2007 test series, he played a crucial role in saving two matches for Pakistan. And he also ran us close in the 2 t20 WC matches. Indian fans might conflate his performances in those matches with his performance in the 2011 SF, leading to their perception of him as the sole fighter for Pakistan.

And then Misbah also stood out as a well behaved individual and avoided any controversy in an era when Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shahzad etc made headlines for wrong reasons. Fans like @Local.Dada even want him to be appointed as an Ambassador.

Misbah excelled in test matches as a captain. And in Odis, he was at least getting runs, albeit at a slower pace compared to other team batters of his era. He escaped scrutiny over SR from Indian fans as he wasn't compared to any Indian player. Babar hasn't been as lucky as comparison with Kohli made him being followed more closely.

And now I will give your perspective:


Indian fans must understand that it wasn't just the Mohali knock that turned him into a villain in the eyes of Pakistani fans. His adherence to a safety-first approach and selecting tuktuks in his batting line up further fueled their criticism. The batting line up he assembled for the 2013 CT was associate level. That campaign was Pakistan’s worst performance in any ICC tournament.

In 2015, the Pakistani batting line up was again putting up a poor show, and Wahab Riaz saved them from severe humiliations. Sarfaraz’s inclusion ensured Pakistan reached the QF, whom Misbah was initially reluctant to add into the team.

Misbah had a SR in the low 70s during a time when Trott, Cook, and Bell were dropped from the English team despite having a SR in the high 70s. Misbah struggled even more after spinners Ajmal and Hafeez were banned for chucking. He then handpicked Azhar Ali as a captain. Azhar Ali was a more capable one day batter than Misbah but adhered to the same philosophy, resulting in Pakistan dropping to no. 9 in ODI rankings. They remained stagnant between 7th and 9th during his tenure.

Pakistan showed improvement under Sarfraz and Mickey. They weren't world beaters but they at least tried to play the right brand of cricket in the limited formats.

Post 2019 WC, Misbah was part of a committee that dismissed Mickey Arthur. And then he himself was appointed the coach. Dubious selections led to the team being whitewashed by a depleted Lankan side. Sarfaraz was sacked. Babar was appointed captain, followed by the promotion of Rizwan as T20 opener less than a year later.

It's bit confusing that @Sachin fan criticizes Babar and Rizwan who play the same brand of cricket as Misbah, while simultaneously defending Misbah himself. He must also understand Pakistan has produced much greater players than Misbah and not everyone criticizing Misbah would be be a Lala fan. Zaheer Abbas, Majid Khan, Javed Miandad, Salim Malik, Inzamam ul Haq, Saeed Anwar, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan etc. all have bigger legacies as batters.

 

[RyanRyan10]

There is a reason we had hardworking legends who raised our level, Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir, Pujara, Kumble. Not flashy but honest hardworking pillars for the team. Pakistani public is so obsessed with Afridi single ball ducks, such players like those mentioned above never get to be the stabilizing force.
With limited team resources and skills, Misbah over delivered for Pakistan instead of appreciating that Pakistani posters are out blaming him for everything.
Dravid, Pujara, Laxman often failed to get us to the top but we appreciate their contribution to Indian cricket, but Pakistani posters are still chasing the glory of irresponsible Afridi batting, lunatic captaincy.

Our opinion hardly matters, We know that Misbah was the scary thing for us in T20 World Cup final and 2011 World Cup Semi Final. Afridi was always the walking wicket and he always proved that in critical games against us. Afridi has been our 12th man for 2 decades . Please continue glorifying the irresponsible playstyle of Afridi, It will only help us in mocking you more.

To raise levels, you need to perform and make a positive contribution. While Dravid wasn't the most entertaining player to watch during his playing days, he had many memorable moments and achievements. And when he transitioned into a coaching role, he pushed for an attacking brand of cricket, something that was absent during Shastri's tenure.

During IPL, he had poked fun at himself, advising batters to not play like him. He even acknowledged his exclusion from ODIs during in late 90s was due to his style not being suited for the format. In contrast, Misbah defended his low SR, stating that everytime he walks in team is 20-3 and he often guides them to 220-3. However, the team ultimately succumbs to 235.

Now you tell me if Misbah was consistently stabilizing the team from 10-3 to 220-3, why he didn't achieve a single odi century. As a data driven analyst, I believe you should explain this aspect of saviour Misbah.

 

[gazza619]

Misbah’s importance & contributions to Pakistan cricket > the 1000s of useless posts by his haters on this forum

Misbah gave us joy when the haters were in their nappies

 

[Rana]

Misbah gave us joy when the haters were in their nappies

What joy?

The haters are the ones who have seen cricket for the past 20+ years when Misbah was in the scene. This statement is incorrect and questionable like your claim of 33 KPK players better than the current Pakistan team.

Can you share that joy which Misbah gave during the time when his haters were in their nappies. That would mean Misbah gave Pakistan joy in the year 1985-1992

 

[Local.Dada]

And then Misbah also stood out as a well behaved individual and avoided any controversy in an era when Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shahzad etc made headlines for wrong reasons. Fans like @Local.Dada even want him to be appointed as an Ambassador.

I am not fan of Misbah the cricketer. He was a boring batsman to watch.

However as a person why not? He is the quintessential No controversy man.

CT, 152-0 we’re celebrated by Pak fans and rightfully so but that just created a lot of toxicity. Look where the teams ended up since then . Only bright light was odi wins in Aus and SA.

Misbah won series in India and SA. Made the team No.1 ranked test side. Shook it off with swag like a true alpha leader.

Sometimes winning and losing is smaller in the larger scheme of things.

Yes, instead of PCB, Misbah should be in diplomacy or government. More impressive and articulate than most Pak diplomats and ambassadors.

Nothing but respect.

If you hate him for his batting all the power to you. I wouldn’t say I hate his cricket but not a big fan but how he conducted himself, his team and brought respect to Pakistan as a cricket playing nation, I will always respect him: true gentleman and legend .

Controversial statement that will upset a lot of folks but I feel he has more PM material in him for a cricketer than IK ever had. You need to be that calm zen in leadership roles rather than wearing emotions on your sleeve. Good man, role model and very smart guy.

 

[gazza619]

This statement is incorrect and questionablel

ah ok my bad. By the way the statement you made about Sharjeel being Saim’s mentor, did you visualise this in a daydream or a night dream?

 

[Rana]

ah ok my bad. By the way the statement you made about Sharjeel being Saim’s mentor, did you visualise this in a daydream or a night dream?

Me saying Sharjeel has mentored Saim in Sindh has more credibility than you claiming there are 33 players in KPK who will destroy Pakistan cricket team.

 

[gazza619]

Me saying Sharjeel has mentored Saim in Sindh has more credibility than you claiming there are 33 players in KPK who will destroy Pakistan cricket team.

well first of all I would have happily posted the 33 KPK players list if you had created the thread as was directed

Secondly just look at PSL alone and see who are high performing individuals.

 

[BouncerGuy]

GUYS. YOU NEED TO STAY AWAY FROM PERSONAL STUFF. STAY ON TOPIC THAT IS (MISBAH UL HAQ)

 

[manzoor.syed]

he conducts himself better than I used to do when during my initial phase on this forum. Anyways, I will give my opinion on this topic. Both sides need to understand each other's perspectives.

First of all, i haven't met a single Indian fan IRL who wasn't baffled with Misbah's approach. Moreover, it's not fair to compare his SR with others in that match, since they consistently maintained a certain pace throughout their innings, whereas Misbah batted like a tortoise and increased his SR only after the match was beyond redemption. Umar Akmal was trying to shift the momentum with his knock of 29 (24). In the same partnership, Misbah made 7 (21). This was downright pathetic. While not solely responsible, Misbah's approach was the worst among all batters as he didn't even attempt to step up the tempo.

Now I will give Indian perspective on why Misbah is more highly regarded compared to how he's perceived by Pakistan fans. One reason is his overall record against India. In the 2007 test series, he played a crucial role in saving two matches for Pakistan. And he also ran us close in the 2 t20 WC matches. Indian fans might conflate his performances in those matches with his performance in the 2011 SF, leading to their perception of him as the sole fighter for Pakistan.

And then Misbah also stood out as a well behaved individual and avoided any controversy in an era when Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shahzad etc made headlines for wrong reasons. Fans like @Local.Dada even want him to be appointed as an Ambassador.

Misbah excelled in test matches as a captain. And in Odis, he was at least getting runs, albeit at a slower pace compared to other team batters of his era. He escaped scrutiny over SR from Indian fans as he wasn't compared to any Indian player. Babar hasn't been as lucky as comparison with Kohli made him being followed more closely.

And now I will give your perspective:


Indian fans must understand that it wasn't just the Mohali knock that turned him into a villain in the eyes of Pakistani fans. His adherence to a safety-first approach and selecting tuktuks in his batting line up further fueled their criticism. The batting line up he assembled for the 2013 CT was associate level. That campaign was Pakistan’s worst performance in any ICC tournament.

In 2015, the Pakistani batting line up was again putting up a poor show, and Wahab Riaz saved them from severe humiliations. Sarfaraz’s inclusion ensured Pakistan reached the QF, whom Misbah was initially reluctant to add into the team.

Misbah had a SR in the low 70s during a time when Trott, Cook, and Bell were dropped from the English team despite having a SR in the high 70s. Misbah struggled even more after spinners Ajmal and Hafeez were banned for chucking. He then handpicked Azhar Ali as a captain. Azhar Ali was a more capable one day batter than Misbah but adhered to the same philosophy, resulting in Pakistan dropping to no. 9 in ODI rankings. They remained stagnant between 7th and 9th during his tenure.

Pakistan showed improvement under Sarfraz and Mickey. They weren't world beaters but they at least tried to play the right brand of cricket in the limited formats.

Post 2019 WC, Misbah was part of a committee that dismissed Mickey Arthur. And then he himself was appointed the coach. Dubious selections led to the team being whitewashed by a depleted Lankan side. Sarfaraz was sacked. Babar was appointed captain, followed by the promotion of Rizwan as T20 opener less than a year later.

It's bit confusing that @Sachin fan criticizes Babar and Rizwan who play the same brand of cricket as Misbah, while simultaneously defending Misbah himself. He must also understand Pakistan has produced much greater players than Misbah and not everyone criticizing Misbah would be be a Lala fan. Zaheer Abbas, Majid Khan, Javed Miandad, Salim Malik, Inzamam ul Haq, Saeed Anwar, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan etc. all have bigger legacies as batters.

Very good post, analysing both sides. While he did great in tests in Asian conditions, his ODI performances were below par especially in big games where it mattered. Mohali 2011 was a chance for him to redeem himself and become a hero after the brain fade in the 2007 t20 final but he crumbled under pressure more than any other Pakistani batsman that day.

 

[zaidihusain]

The culture of playing too many dot balls and poor strike rotation was started by Misbah.. Before arrival of Misbah the batters still used to play with better strike rotation and more aggressively.

PCB made a grave mistake by allowing guys like Misbah, Afridi & Younis to play ODI cricket after 2011 WC which had impacted ODI team in a big way.

 

[Rana]

The culture of playing too many dot balls and poor strike rotation was started by Misbah.. Before arrival of Misbah the batters still used to play with better strike rotation and more aggressively.

PCB made a grave mistake by allowing guys like Misbah, Afridi & Younis to play ODI cricket after 2011 WC which had impacted ODI team in a big way.

This is a good point.

The rate at which your batsmen play in Test cricket is usually a good indicator of what pace they are going to accustom themselves in white ball cricket.

If I remember correctly, Pakistan before Misbah (pre 2007) were still playing Test cricket at the proper rate. Their batsmen generally were striking at around 50-60, and they were usually going at 3.3-4 runs per over.

The 2010 Test series in England was probably the end of the road when it came to playing Test cricket at its standard rate. Pakistan had an abysmal tour with the bat as they clearly had no clue against swing…and their game against spin also was disastrous with Greame Swann running through them. The spot fixing scandal basically had Pakistan at the point of extinction, and definitely as a batting nation Pakistan seemed done.

Misbah’s first home series as captain against SA was the beginning were I guess he had the mentality of ‘we need to start from scratch. We can’t survive if he try to play normally or attack the ball, so let’s just take our merry time and score 250 in 100 overs if that’s what it is’.

He got some success with this approach and basically ran with it. In the long run, it’s hurt Pakistan cricket massively because Pakistan just didn’t come out of it when it was time to move on, Crack on. Although his fans will say it was the revival.

 

[zaidihusain]

This is a good point.

The rate at which your batsmen play in Test cricket is usually a good indicator of what pace they are going to accustom themselves in white ball cricket.

If I remember correctly, Pakistan before Misbah (pre 2007) were still playing Test cricket at the proper rate. Their batsmen generally were striking at around 50-60, and they were usually going at 3.3-4 runs per over.

The 2010 Test series in England was probably the end of the road when it came to playing Test cricket at its standard rate. Pakistan had an abysmal tour with the bat as they clearly had no clue against swing…and their game against spin also was disastrous with Greame Swann running through them. The spot fixing scandal basically had Pakistan at the point of extinction, and definitely as a batting nation Pakistan seemed done.

Misbah’s first home series as captain against SA was the beginning were I guess he had the mentality of ‘we need to start from scratch. We can’t survive if he try to play normally or attack the ball, so let’s just take our merry time and score 250 in 100 overs if that’s what it is’.

He got some success with this approach and basically ran with it. In the long run, it’s hurt Pakistan cricket massively because Pakistan just didn’t come out of it when it was time to move on, Crack on. Although his fans will say it was the revival.

Yes Misbah's approach after 2011 WC had killed the Pakistan ODIs cricket and it still has lot of impact on current players. You can't have guys like Misbah, Younis, Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Ahmad Shahzad in any ODI team, players like these jeopardize efforts of other players.

Unfortunately someone like Hafeez started playing slow under Misbah. In my opinion Yusuf was the last proper batsman from Pakistan in ODIs, although his SR was of 75 but he used to accelerate in later part of innings and made many big scores, he has 15 100s and 64 50s in ODIs. Misbah's failure to score single 100 even after playing 162 ODIs confirms how he played ODI cricket

 

[mominsaigol]

This is a good point.

The rate at which your batsmen play in Test cricket is usually a good indicator of what pace they are going to accustom themselves in white ball cricket.

If I remember correctly, Pakistan before Misbah (pre 2007) were still playing Test cricket at the proper rate. Their batsmen generally were striking at around 50-60, and they were usually going at 3.3-4 runs per over.

The 2010 Test series in England was probably the end of the road when it came to playing Test cricket at its standard rate. Pakistan had an abysmal tour with the bat as they clearly had no clue against swing…and their game against spin also was disastrous with Greame Swann running through them. The spot fixing scandal basically had Pakistan at the point of extinction, and definitely as a batting nation Pakistan seemed done.

Misbah’s first home series as captain against SA was the beginning were I guess he had the mentality of ‘we need to start from scratch. We can’t survive if he try to play normally or attack the ball, so let’s just take our merry time and score 250 in 100 overs if that’s what it is’.

He got some success with this approach and basically ran with it. In the long run, it’s hurt Pakistan cricket massively because Pakistan just didn’t come out of it when it was time to move on, Crack on. Although his fans will say it was the revival.

Tbf, playing test cricket slowly isn't a bad thing, it really depends on scenario to scenario.

Usually batting for a long time at a steady pace and then declaring ensures 2 things.

A) Worst case scenario it's a draw.

B) The batting side will be too example to bat after fielding all day since typically youd declare on the 4th day after the 2nd innings.

Their different formats honestly. I'd say the best indicator to determine a rubbish player is if he's rubbish in all formats.

Misbah is a rubbish test batsmen, he is not as good as he's built up to be. He batted at no 5 with a lineup of azhar and YK who are known for batting long.

No 5 is the easiest test position to bat in as in a good test side, the ball will be too old to do any damage.

The reason why Australia had Head batting at no 5 was because hes a dasher. It's best to utilise him when the bowling is non threatening and he can punish the opposition. According to reports, he will move down to no 5 coming wtc and konstas will open with khawaja which is the right call.

The fact that misbah adopted the easiest batting position as no 6 and no 7 have to deal with the new ball being taken and was still rubbish shows how poor he is.

 

[Kianig89]

Misbah sowed the seeds of success in IU, the franchise still reaping it , although his international failures are a different story but he definitely has a hand in establishing IU as successful PSL team

 

[RyanRyan10]

Misbah sowed the seeds of success in IU, the franchise still reaping it , although his international failures are a different story but he definitely has a hand in establishing IU as successful PSL team

it was Dean Jones, the pioneer of odi batting

 

[zaidihusain]

it was Dean Jones, the pioneer of odi batting

Not to forget guidance from Wasim Akram and contribution of Brad Haddin, Dwayne Smith, Sharjeel Khan in key matches.

 

[mominsaigol]

it was Dean Jones, the pioneer of odi batting

One of my favourite batsmen of all time. Very underrated

 

[BouncerGuy]

Misbah should keep sticking to TV shows only.

 

[Rana]

Misbah should keep sticking to TV shows only.

Not even TV

It’s like giving air time to an extremist cleric in cricketing terms. His views are received by a large amount of educated Jaahils.

Him and Salman Butt both need to be gagged.