Davis Cup: Pakistan's top tennis players boycott India tie [Post#125]

[Itachi]

Before posting such drivel it would help to read the previous material already posted.
Times of India:
The tie was scheduled to be held in September but was delayed when India expressed concerns about the safety of their players due to the prevailing diplomatic tensions between the two nations after the revocation of Article 370.

Sportstar.TheHindu:
The tie earlier was scheduled to be held on September 14-15 but was delayed when India expressed concerns about the safety of their players due to the prevailing diplomatic tensions between the two nations.

The difference between you and me is, you are silently driving your agendas to interpret it by selective quoting. Let's read the words again, shall we?

"Following a review of the latest advice given by the ITF's independent security advisors, the Davis Cup Committee has taken the decision that the Davis Cup Asia/Oceania Group 1 tie between Pakistan and India on 29-30 November 2019, must be played at a neutral venue.

this is the timeline according to the statement.

1. India expressed concerns.
2. ITF took a review by independent source (whether this review was due to the concerns raised by india is unclear as the statement is silent about it).
3. Following the review of the advisors, as the security was deemed not fit, hence it was relocated which is evident in the following statement.

The ITF and Davis Cup Committee's first priority has always been the safety of athletes, officials and spectators and the decision was made on this basis

When someone is reviewing a sensitive subject such as safety of lives, one doesn't need to take opinion from the host. Because it will be driven by agendas. And it is not an Indian advisory committee. So stop crying about discrimination and play the victim card as majority of the pak ppers.

As for your "REASON" goes, the statement disagrees with your version of india revoking 370. It only takes in to account about inputs from the advisory committee.

Take your victim glass off and see it from a neutral pov. You will understand.

 

[CanadianG00se]

All players want fat pay cheques. The reason SENA players go to the IPL is not to fulfill their cravings for curry. Despite this they are also happy with the security arrangements otherwise it makes no sense to get a fat pay cheque and not living to enjoy it.

A team of players, including the two mentioned above, have visited two years ago to play as a World XI. England are due to tour in 2022, discussions are taking place already as they are with the ACB. It’s a fluid situation.

According to you the main Lankan players refused to tour because of the money vs security balance not being in their favour.
You forget that the tour was sanctioned by the ICC and the officials from West Indies, England and Australia had no issues in visiting.

Players visiting India for IPL is also due to money but the very same players chosen for their country to tour India doesn’t refuse citing security concerns. No team has refused to visit India for a proper series. So, bringing India or IPL into this conversation is pointless as there are no similarities.

In my previous post I was indeed referring World XI tour where players from numerous countries formed a team to visit Pakistan. Now, couple years later few SL players who visited Pakistan have refused to visit this time around citing security. What has changed so much in two years that SL players refused?

Lastly, board officials visiting Pakistan won’t necessarily means teams would be visiting as well. If England team indeed visits Pakistan in 2022 then it will be a massive step towards normalcy but until then it’s mere speculation.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

The difference between you and me is, you are silently driving your agendas to interpret it by selective quoting. Let's read the words again, shall we?



this is the timeline according to the statement.

1. India expressed concerns.
2. ITF took a review by independent source (whether this review was due to the concerns raised by india is unclear as the statement is silent about it).
3. Following the review of the advisors, as the security was deemed not fit, hence it was relocated which is evident in the following statement.



When someone is reviewing a sensitive subject such as safety of lives, one doesn't need to take opinion from the host. Because it will be driven by agendas. And it is not an Indian advisory committee. So stop crying about discrimination and play the victim card as majority of the pak ppers.

As for your "REASON" goes, the statement disagrees with your version of india revoking 370. It only takes in to account about inputs from the advisory committee.

Take your victim glass off and see it from a neutral pov. You will understand.

More ignorant filthy drivel. Go back to the start of this thread to see the true timeline with events. Right from the start Indian tennis players were anxious (scared) to tour Pakistan even after the ITF had given the go ahead following security assessments.
This pattern repeated itself a number of times until eventually the ITF decided to renege on previous decisions and go for the neutral venue option.
According to the PTF they have not disclosed the reasons for this change in stance.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Players visiting India for IPL is also due to money but the very same players chosen for their country to tour India doesn’t refuse citing security concerns. No team has refused to visit India for a proper series. So, bringing India or IPL into this conversation is pointless as there are no similarities.

In my previous post I was indeed referring World XI tour where players from numerous countries formed a team to visit Pakistan. Now, couple years later few SL players who visited Pakistan have refused to visit this time around citing security. What has changed so much in two years that SL players refused?

Lastly, board officials visiting Pakistan won’t necessarily means teams would be visiting as well. If England team indeed visits Pakistan in 2022 then it will be a massive step towards normalcy but until then it’s mere speculation.

That’s why the SLCB refused said players NOC’s to participate in the CPL. It was a financial decision for them as they stood to make more money playing the CPL. Has nothing to do with the security situation in Pakistan. Thisara Perera was one who refused to tour this time even though he has played in Pakistan many times previously in the PSL.

The boards were not even interested in talking before, this is a development in the right direction

 

[Iqbal'sh]

[MENTION=6928]Iqbal'sh[/MENTION] your post replying to me was deleted my mods. If it was to carry on debate in a healthy manner you can rephrase and post again, if it was a troll/biased/deluded reply then don't post.

I labelled it a presumptuous and condescending load of manure (or words to that affect).

Let me explain why.
You made several assumptions about me even though you don’t know me from Adam.

You bigged yourself up as someone who doesn’t play the blame game and then blamed Pakistan’s founding fathers for causing sour relationship that have festered and grown over time.

You think a certain anti-Pak poster is the only fair minded Pak PPer because he constantly spews negativity about all things Pakistani.
Time for you to introspect a little to rebalance your thoughts.

 

[Itachi]

More ignorant filthy drivel. Go back to the start of this thread to see the true timeline with events. Right from the start Indian tennis players were anxious (scared) to tour Pakistan even after the ITF had given the go ahead following security assessments.
This pattern repeated itself a number of times until eventually the ITF decided to renege on previous decisions and go for the neutral venue option.
According to the PTF they have not disclosed the reasons for this change in stance.

What you wrote above is YOUR SPECULATION and is no different than a PONY PUFF PRINCESS UNICORN STORY of a 3 year old girl because unless you have ITF independent advisory committee documents stating the above, rest is as I have said earlier.... A speculation only with not even ounce of authenticity.

Mind is a strange creature. When you think about something, it spreads its roots and then engulfs you. This is what happening on your case. The victim hood is engulfing you so much that now, you are writing stories.

Good for a bollywood movie, but reality is different.

 

[MenInG]

Mahesh Bhupathi has said that he can’t accept that he has been sacked as India’s Davis Cup team captain on the charge that he refused national duty.

“I don’t mind being fired. They can say it’s time for a new captain. But nobody can say that I refused national duty,” Bhupathi said in an interview today. “I genuinely thought it’s unsafe to travel to Pakistan, which the ITF has validated.”
Bhupathi is right — ITF (the international governing body of tennis) has shifted India’s Davis Cup tie out of Pakistan, confirming the view that it’s not ideal to travel to that country for sport.

In fact, over the last few months, the Indian federation (AITA) had made multiple requests to ITF to move the Davis Cup tie out of Islamabad to a neutral country. In one of its mails to ITF, AITA wrote in September: “...we do not have an Ambassador any longer in Islamabad. Trains between India and Pakistan have been stopped. Bus service between India and Pakistan has also been stopped with immediate effect. There is lot of undercurrent of tension in Pakistan. Air space has also been shut off for Indian planes... The recent developments have resulted in an atmosphere which is not conducive for a happy friendly tie between the two teams.”


This was AITA’s view. Accepting this view, ITF decided to shift the tie out of Pakistan to a neutral venue.

After Bhupathi had expressed his reservations over travelling to Pakistan, AITA picked up former player and Delhi association president Rohit Rajpal for the role of the non-playing captain. Now, despite AITA shifting the tie out of Pakistan, AITA has stuck with Rajpal as captain, keeping Bhupathi out.

Freedom to choose

In other sports, in scenarios when players pull out of a tour of a country which is viewed as unsafe — Pakistan has been the focus in many such cases in the past — pulling out of the team due to safety concerns is not held against them. For instance, when 10 top Sri Lankan players pulled out of the tour of Pakistan recently, the Sri Lankan cricket authorities gave them the freedom to do so, without jeopardising their selection in the team in the future. Ditto with top West Indian players last year.

‘I’m being targeted’

“If these guys (AITA) don’t want me, I can disconnect but don’t tell the country that I did not show up for national duty,” Bhupathi said.

Bhupathi feels AITA sacked him because the officials thought he was instigating the players to not to travel to Pakistan. “The way AITA has operated in the last 25 years, they want to call all the shots,” he said. “They think I am rallying the players to talk in one voice, so they thought cut the head of these boys.”

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/i...so-it-s-wrong-to-fire-me-bhupathi/857493.html

 

[ahsan17]

Mahesh Bhupathi has said that he can’t accept that he has been sacked as India’s Davis Cup team captain on the charge that he refused national duty.

“I don’t mind being fired. They can say it’s time for a new captain. But nobody can say that I refused national duty,” Bhupathi said in an interview today. “I genuinely thought it’s unsafe to travel to Pakistan, which the ITF has validated.”
Bhupathi is right — ITF (the international governing body of tennis) has shifted India’s Davis Cup tie out of Pakistan, confirming the view that it’s not ideal to travel to that country for sport.

In fact, over the last few months, the Indian federation (AITA) had made multiple requests to ITF to move the Davis Cup tie out of Islamabad to a neutral country. In one of its mails to ITF, AITA wrote in September: “...we do not have an Ambassador any longer in Islamabad. Trains between India and Pakistan have been stopped. Bus service between India and Pakistan has also been stopped with immediate effect. There is lot of undercurrent of tension in Pakistan. Air space has also been shut off for Indian planes... The recent developments have resulted in an atmosphere which is not conducive for a happy friendly tie between the two teams.”

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/i...so-it-s-wrong-to-fire-me-bhupathi/857493.html

So which of these are generic safety issues and which are issues between India and Pakistan that have largely been instigated by India?

 

[ahsan17]

In other sports, in scenarios when players pull out of a tour of a country which is viewed as unsafe — Pakistan has been the focus in many such cases in the past — pulling out of the team due to safety concerns is not held against them. For instance, when 10 top Sri Lankan players pulled out of the tour of Pakistan recently, the Sri Lankan cricket authorities gave them the freedom to do so, without jeopardising their selection in the team in the future. Ditto with top West Indian players last year.
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/i...so-it-s-wrong-to-fire-me-bhupathi/857493.html

In regards to the analogy with cricket, this analogy doesn't work because ICC has shown very little strength in helping cricket return to Pakistan even though it is awfully clear Pakistan is safe for cricket now (this is not an opinion, this is just data). FIFA had forced teams to play in Africa after a much worse attack on a team in which players actually died. Here, ICC completely left it to the boards and didn't do much. If the governing council doesn't show mettle, the boards will do whatever players will please. If AITA has show more strength than ICC (but not as much as FIFA), that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

[cricketjoshila]

In regards to the analogy with cricket, this analogy doesn't work because ICC has shown very little strength in helping cricket return to Pakistan even though it is awfully clear Pakistan is safe for cricket now (this is not an opinion, this is just data). FIFA had forced teams to play in Africa after a much worse attack on a team in which players actually died. Here, ICC completely left it to the boards and didn't do much. If the governing council doesn't show mettle, the boards will do whatever players will please. If AITA has show more strength than ICC (but not as much as FIFA), that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

If any organisation forces a team to travel and takes responsibility, and something happens, the individuals at the helm will face criminal charges in courts.

The example of FIFA sending team to Africa that you gave can you elaborate please. That particular incident.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So which of these are generic safety issues and which are issues between India and Pakistan that have largely been instigated by India?

India didnot stop trains,buses,or flights. Pakistan chose to degrade the diplomatic relations.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

What you wrote above is YOUR SPECULATION and is no different than a PONY PUFF PRINCESS UNICORN STORY of a 3 year old girl because unless you have ITF independent advisory committee documents stating the above, rest is as I have said earlier.... A speculation only with not even ounce of authenticity.

Mind is a strange creature. When you think about something, it spreads its roots and then engulfs you. This is what happening on your case. The victim hood is engulfing you so much that now, you are writing stories.

Good for a bollywood movie, but reality is different.

Save the psycho analysis rubbish for someone else. You’re making yourself look like a complete fool.
Just read the latest article posted above which confirms that the AITA made continuous requests to get the venue shifted.
Some of the reasons they put down are also included in that article (stoppage of train and bus services, airspace shut off etc)
As I said previously go through this thread from the beginning and you’ll see the pattern repeat - AITA requests, ITF refuses, Indian players (through Bhupathi) say it’s too dangerous to play in Pakistan.

Yes, the ITF have not disclosed the reason why they feel Pakistan has become unsafe in the last few weeks, and rightly the PTF have appealed. However it doesn’t take a genius to work out what is going on, a number of Indian papers have reported it.

 

[ahsan17]

If any organisation forces a team to travel and takes responsibility, and something happens, the individuals at the helm will face criminal charges in courts.

What if something happens in England or New Zealand? Will they face criminal charges?

The example of FIFA sending team to Africa that you gave can you elaborate please. That particular incident.

Initial incident: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...gunfire-attack-in-Angola-players-injured.html

Aftermath: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jan/30/togo-africa-cup-nations-ban

As I mentioned, AITA has shown much more strength than ICC on this. Using ICC's lack of resolve as an example is not a good analogy. They also left Sri Lanka hanging. They basically care about big 3, and anyone after that is on their own.

 

[ahsan17]

India didnot stop trains,buses,or flights. Pakistan chose to degrade the diplomatic relations.

That didn't happen in a vacuum. You can argue "Kashmir is India" or whatnot, but an independent sports governing body should be able to distinguish political talk from the reality that everyone except India considers Kashmir a disputed territory. It's got nothing to do with Indian narrative or Pakistani narrative but what is globally accepted.

Still, it doesn't follow why that should result in the game getting moved. One doesn't follow from the other.

I'd like Pakistan to ask ICC to move all its games out of India in the upcoming multi-team tournaments, and then see your response if PCB is strong enough to do that.

 

[Itachi]

Save the psycho analysis rubbish for someone else. You’re making yourself look like a complete fool.
Just read the latest article posted above which confirms that the AITA made continuous requests to get the venue shifted.
Some of the reasons they put down are also included in that article (stoppage of train and bus services, airspace shut off etc)
As I said previously go through this thread from the beginning and you’ll see the pattern repeat - AITA requests, ITF refuses, Indian players (through Bhupathi) say it’s too dangerous to play in Pakistan.

Yes, the ITF have not disclosed the reason why they feel Pakistan has become unsafe in the last few weeks, and rightly the PTF have appealed. However it doesn’t take a genius to work out what is going on, a number of Indian papers have reported it.

Since you are avoiding to answer, let me ask directly.

The above conclusions is written in the review of the ITF advisory committee or is it your speculation based upon incidents that were prior to it?

 

[Itachi]

That didn't happen in a vacuum. You can argue "Kashmir is India" or whatnot, but an independent sports governing body should be able to distinguish political talk from the reality that everyone except India considers Kashmir a disputed territory. It's got nothing to do with Indian narrative or Pakistani narrative but what is globally accepted.

Still, it doesn't follow why that should result in the game getting moved. One doesn't follow from the other.

I'd like Pakistan to ask ICC to move all its games out of India in the upcoming multi-team tournaments, and then see your response if PCB is strong enough to do that.

Define globally accepted. What are the criterion to be globally accepted?

 

[big_gamer007]

I labelled it a presumptuous and condescending load of manure (or words to that affect).

Let me explain why.
You made several assumptions about me even though you don’t know me from Adam.

You bigged yourself up as someone who doesn’t play the blame game and then blamed Pakistan’s founding fathers for causing sour relationship that have festered and grown over time.

You think a certain anti-Pak poster is the only fair minded Pak PPer because he constantly spews negativity about all things Pakistani.
Time for you to introspect a little to rebalance your thoughts.

Ok, believe what you want.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That didn't happen in a vacuum. You can argue "Kashmir is India" or whatnot, but an independent sports governing body should be able to distinguish political talk from the reality that everyone except India considers Kashmir a disputed territory. It's got nothing to do with Indian narrative or Pakistani narrative but what is globally accepted.

Still, it doesn't follow why that should result in the game getting moved. One doesn't follow from the other.

I'd like Pakistan to ask ICC to move all its games out of India in the upcoming multi-team tournaments, and then see your response if PCB is strong enough to do that.

Most teams dont travel to pakistan due to security. Almost every team travels to India.

So asking the ICC wont work.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What if something happens in England or New Zealand? Will they face criminal charges?



Initial incident: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...gunfire-attack-in-Angola-players-injured.html

Aftermath: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jan/30/togo-africa-cup-nations-ban

As I mentioned, AITA has shown much more strength than ICC on this. Using ICC's lack of resolve as an example is not a good analogy. They also left Sri Lanka hanging. They basically care about big 3, and anyone after that is on their own.

Let me show you something


The ban was not by Fifa but by CAF. The african football body.

Togo sued CAF in CAS.

Fifa stepped in and ban lifted.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2010/may/14/togo-africa-cup-of-nations-ban

 

[Babbar]

So most Resident Pakistanis think that Pakistan is safe for international games. But most of the rest of the world thinks otherwise. India and Pakistan opposition party leaders thinks Pakistan unsafe doubly so because of Kashmir, Dawood, Hafeez, Art370, Uri, 2611 and well... Modi.

Both side have their genuine reasons. Never the twain shall meet.

Let’s make a simple rule that the two teams will always play bilaterals in a neutral country. In multilateral tournaments hosted by either, other can decide to play or boycott. Hopefully one day, situation will improve enough to host each other.

This will save a lot of heartache for everyone.

 

[Itachi]

So most Resident Pakistanis think that Pakistan is safe for international games. But most of the rest of the world thinks otherwise. India and Pakistan opposition party leaders thinks Pakistan unsafe doubly so because of Kashmir, Dawood, Hafeez, Art370, Uri, 2611 and well... Modi.

Both side have their genuine reasons. Never the twain shall meet.

Let’s make a simple rule that the two teams will always play bilaterals in a neutral country. In multilateral tournaments hosted by either, other can decide to play or boycott. Hopefully one day, situation will improve enough to host each other.

This will save a lot of heartache for everyone.

Sounds reasonable and will make many troubles stay away.

 

[ahsan17]

Define globally accepted. What are the criterion to be globally accepted?

Most countries and global organizations think Kashmir is India's territory? Oh right, I've heard that delusion over a 100,000 t

Let me show you something


The ban was not by Fifa but by CAF. The african football body.

Togo sued CAF in CAS.

Fifa stepped in and ban lifted.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/amp....ll/2010/may/14/togo-africa-cup-of-nations-ban

Sure, that's still not the point. The 2010 cup went AHEAD in Angola, it wasn't stopped. More importantly, no one stopped visiting Angola afterwards. This is what you call strength. Not the crap we have seen from ICC.

Most teams dont travel to pakistan due to security. Almost every team travels to India.

So asking the ICC wont work.

Pakistan can not travel to India under the same pretense India gave, which is based more so on political situation.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Since you are avoiding to answer, let me ask directly.

The above conclusions is written in the review of the ITF advisory committee or is it your speculation based upon incidents that were prior to it?

Below is the quote from the PTF chief.

“We are upset, we will register our protest, this decision has disappointed us,” Saifullah told Dawn on Tuesday. “The ITF has shifted the tie while citing security issues but it hasn’t given a specific reason.

The ITF gave no reason for the change in their stance. Whilst the AITA on countless occasions asked them to review the security due to the rise in diplomatic tensions after August 3rd.
This has been widely reported by both the Indian and Pakistani media.

But Mr Jonny Come-Lately you would be up to speed on this had you read the media reports posted in this thread.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

So most Resident Pakistanis think that Pakistan is safe for international games. But most of the rest of the world thinks otherwise.

Where did you pull that out of?
With regards to tennis & specifically the Davis Cup Pakistan has hosted three countries in the last two years (Iran, Uzbekistan & South Korea).
Hong Kong refused to come and were fined and relegated by the ITF.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Most countries and global organizations think Kashmir is India's territory? Oh right, I've heard that delusion over a 100,000 t



Sure, that's still not the point. The 2010 cup went AHEAD in Angola, it wasn't stopped. More importantly, no one stopped visiting Angola afterwards. This is what you call strength. Not the crap we have seen from ICC.



Pakistan can not travel to India under the same pretense India gave, which is based more so on political situation.

They are a cowardly nation too scared to admit that their sportsmen can’t handle the fallout from their governments decision to revoke 370.

 

[Itachi]

Below is the quote from the PTF chief.



The ITF gave no reason for the change in their stance. Whilst the AITA on countless occasions asked them to review the security due to the rise in diplomatic tensions after August 3rd.
This has been widely reported by both the Indian and Pakistani media.

But Mr Jonny Come-Lately you would be up to speed on this had you read the media reports posted in this thread.

ITF isn't answerable to PTF. Just like ICC isn't answerable to PCB or BCCI.

What PTF chief SPECULATED has no value since the decision came from ITF and NOT PTF.

Unless you have ITF spokesperson stating the same or you have documentation to show that, that was the cause, whether it is PTF CHIEF or Pakistan PM or Pakistan president doesn't matter.

Only the governing body who actually took the decision can attribute the criterion.

What PTF cheif is doing is nothing other than what you are doing I. E. Speculation.

The victim mentality is widespread I must say.

 

[Itachi]

Most countries and global organizations think Kashmir is India's territory?

You didn't answer my question actually.

Let me give an example. Islam promoting terrorism is a wide spread concept. Because it is such wide spread that such a concept as Islamophobia exists, does it make it a fact?

 

[ahsan17]

You didn't answer my question actually.

Let me give an example. Islam promoting terrorism is a wide spread concept. Because it is such wide spread that such a concept as Islamophobia exists, does it make it a fact?

I'll make 4 points in response.

1) This is a textbook faulty analogy. You are comparing opinions of individuals with the policies of sovereign states.
2) You guys are the ones that usually placate whatever statements are made against Pakistan by other state. Be it US, Europe, or whatever state or organization, you make a big deal out them every time this has happened in the past.
3) Maybe 1-2% muslims, certain not the majority, believe what you claim. You are using that as an analogy to what all countries except India claim?
4) Getting back to the topic, I still don't get how it must follow from any of this that the games must be moved out of Pakistan.

 

[MenInG]

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India will wait until the venue of their deferred Davis Cup clash against rivals Pakistan is known before naming their squad for the Asia/Oceania Group I tie, newly-appointed captain Rohit Rajpal said on Thursday.

The International Tennis Federation (ITF) postponed the tie between the neighbors, originally scheduled in Islamabad in September, to Nov. 29-30 following a security review.

ITF announced on Monday that the event will be played at a neutral venue, as demanded by the All India Tennis Federation (AITA) which cited security concerns.

But with the Pakistan Tennis Federation (PTF) opting to appeal against the ITF decision, the venue uncertainty has forced India to delay the team selection.

“I don’t know if they can convince ITF and get it back to Islamabad. I don’t know what’s going to happen,” Rajpal told reporters.

“We could very well be going back to Pakistan. My role as the captain is now to make sure that all the players are together and we win the tie.”

Pakistan expelled India’s ambassador and suspended bilateral trade with its neighbor in August after New Delhi removed “special status” from its portion of the contested region of Kashmir.

Bilateral cricketing ties between the two nations have remained suspended since 2008. An Indian tennis team last traveled to Pakistan in 1964 for a Davis Cup tie, defeating the hosts 4-0, while Pakistan lost 3-2 on their last visit to India in 2006.

The venue dispute has also led to bad blood between the AITA and its top players.

Rajpal was appointed India captain on Monday replacing multiple doubles Grand Slam winner Mahesh Bhupathi who, along with several players, had declined to tour Pakistan.

Bhupathi subsequently criticized the way he was removed hours before ITF announced a neutral venue and was backed on social media by players including Rohan Bopanna and Sumit Nagal.

In case the tie is played at a neutral venue, the likes of Bopanna and Nagal would be considered despite their criticism of the federation, Rajpal said.

“Assuming it’s a neutral venue, we’ll start the process again,” Rajpal said.

“We’ll decide the squad based on whether it’s a neutral venue and on what surface.”

Rajpal said the list of players ready to tour Pakistan, should the tie return to Islamabad, included 46-year-old Leander Paes.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-cup-team-selection-v-pakistan-idUSKBN1XH29H

 

[Itachi]

I'll make 4 points in response.

1) This is a textbook faulty analogy. You are comparing opinions of individuals with the policies of sovereign states.
2) You guys are the ones that usually placate whatever statements are made against Pakistan by other state. Be it US, Europe, or whatever state or organization, you make a big deal out them every time this has happened in the past.
3) Maybe 1-2% muslims, certain not the majority, believe what you claim. You are using that as an analogy to what all countries except India claim?
4) Getting back to the topic, I still don't get how it must follow from any of this that the games must be moved out of Pakistan.

1. Show the foreign policy of those countries who acknowledge the Kashmir as disputed territory.

2. Show it. Since it is a usual practice, it shouldn't be hard to find examples where India voicing upon statements that were related to Pakistan yet no relevance to India.

3. I am not talking about Muslims. How Muslims will have Islamophobia? I was talking about non Muslims from non Islamic countries.

4. PTF could demand the walk over if it thinks it is unfair. No one is stopping them.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

ITF isn't answerable to PTF. Just like ICC isn't answerable to PCB or BCCI.

What PTF chief SPECULATED has no value since the decision came from ITF and NOT PTF.

Unless you have ITF spokesperson stating the same or you have documentation to show that, that was the cause, whether it is PTF CHIEF or Pakistan PM or Pakistan president doesn't matter.

Only the governing body who actually took the decision can attribute the criterion.

What PTF cheif is doing is nothing other than what you are doing I. E. Speculation.

The victim mentality is widespread I must say.

So if the PTF chief is not going to be furnished with the full report and how the decision was reached, then who is?
Your each post becomes more and more absurd.

 

[Itachi]

So if the PTF chief is not going to be furnished with the full report and how the decision was reached, then who is?
Your each post becomes more and more absurd.

No one is stopping PTF chief to furnish his complaints report and submit to the authorities. But issues arises when you take the quotes from the complaints as official version. PTF isn't in the position to state the official statement. ITF is and till now, ITF hasn't disclosed anything hence, everything else is just speculation and nothing else.

 

[ahsan17]

1. Show the foreign policy of those countries who acknowledge the Kashmir as disputed territory.

Are you seriously asking me to prove that other countries believe Kashmir is a disputed territory? Do you want me to prove that grass is green while we're at it? Are you forgetting the UN resolutions that multiple countries signed on to, which speaks for their foreign policy?

2. Show it. Since it is a usual practice, it shouldn't be hard to find examples where India voicing upon statements that were related to Pakistan yet no relevance to India.

I was talking about your public and your online warriors. But we can talk about your government as well. Here's an example: https://www.orfonline.org/research/trump-tweet-india-hopes-us-pakistan-heel/
You guys placate every statement someone makes against Pakistan, whether its related to India or not. And now you are saying that foreign policies of those same countries don't matter, because them believing something doesn't make it a fact?

3. I am not talking about Muslims. How Muslims will have Islamophobia? I was talking about non Muslims from non Islamic countries.

I know you were not talking about muslims. Your claim "Islam promoting terrorism is a widepsread concept" suggested you were talking about muslims promoting terrorism, which is obviously not true. Even in non-muslim countries, we're talking about a minority at best. And it's still a bad analogy because you're comparing people's opinions to state policies. Whatever, this is a distraction and a bad argument for reasons just mentioned.

4. PTF could demand the walk over if it thinks it is unfair. No one is stopping them.

The argument that India is giving is bogus, since it initiated everything it mentioned. That's what matters.

 

[Hitman]

Good sensible decision.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

No one is stopping PTF chief to furnish his complaints report and submit to the authorities. But issues arises when you take the quotes from the complaints as official version. PTF isn't in the position to state the official statement. ITF is and till now, ITF hasn't disclosed anything hence, everything else is just speculation and nothing else.

Keep on peddling half truths - the PTF chief has quite clearly stated NO REASONS WERE GIVEN.

Did you not understand this? He is in a better position to confirm the details then some random Indian posting on a Pakistani forum.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Mods, can you please update the thread title to reflect the news confirmed by the PTF that they are appealing the ITF decision.

 

[Itachi]

Keep on peddling half truths - the PTF chief has quite clearly stated NO REASONS WERE GIVEN.

Did you not understand this? He is in a better position to confirm the details then some random Indian posting on a Pakistani forum.

No reasons were given against which he can appeal.

But what you claimed was, a chain of events which you and the PTF chief SPECULATED that could be the reasons. Since no reasons were given, you or PTI chief is in no position to dictate what are facts.

At this point, what you claim is simply speculation, conspiracy and hence nothing different than unicorn stories that you'll find in children's books.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

The appeal has been made by the PTF.
Their chief is aware of all the facts and has made this decision.

He is in a better position to know the realities than you or me.
Indians need to ponder why Bhupathi was unceremoniously removed as the non playing captain. The same Bhupathi who continually urged the AITA to seek multiple security reviews because he was aware of Indian tennis players reluctance to go to Pakistan.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

No reasons were given against which he can appeal.

But what you claimed was, a chain of events which you and the PTF chief SPECULATED that could be the reasons. Since no reasons were given, you or PTI chief is in no position to dictate what are facts.

At this point, what you claim is simply speculation, conspiracy and hence nothing different than unicorn stories that you'll find in children's books.

Your position would have some credibility if the ITA had unilaterally acted in this manner, instead they have reacted on several occasions to the AITA pointing to objections they had to playing this tie in Pakistan.
This is a well publicised and long running saga.
If you had taken my advice and read the various published information on this thread then you would know the reasons why the AITA sought endless reviews, instead you took the ostrich mentality.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan has filed an appeal with the International Tennis Federation (ITF), challenging its decision to shift the Davis Cup tie against India to a neutral venue with the assertion that Islamabad is well-equipped to host the clash.

The Pakistan Tennis Federation (PTF) President Salim Saifullah told PTI on Sunday that a formal appeal has been filed with the international body and it was expecting a positive response by November 15.

“We have pointed out that we are fully prepared to host India for the Davis Cup tie as there is no security issue and nor should political ties between the two countries over-ride our chance of hosting a major event,” Saifullah said.

Saifullah said the event-free opening of the Kartarpur corridor on Saturday is a clear indicator that despite the ongoing diplomatic tensions it is possible to host the Indian tennis team in Islamabad.

“I think our case is very strong because there is no viable argument for shifting the tie to a neutral venue,” he said.

Pakistan was earlier scheduled to host India in the Davis Cup Asia Oceania Group-I Tie on September 14-15 at the grass courts of Pakistan Sports Complex, Islamabad, where matches against Uzbekistan, Korea and Thailand have taken place in 2017 and 2018.

But the ITF announced early this month that the tie would be held at a neutral venue to be chosen by Pakistan after the All India Tennis Association (AITA) requested the tie to be shifted from Islamabad. The ITF said it had acted on the recommendations of its independent security advisors.

Saifullah also said if the appeal was not accepted, the PTF had some other options and was working on those.

“We may tell the ITF that we’ll not nominate the neutral venue. We’ll request it to ask AITA to choose where its outfit wants to play,” he added.

Saifullah said the Indian officials had used the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-Fazl’s (JUI-F) ongoing sit-in in Islamabad to convince the ITF that their players would not be able to focus on the matches.

“They highlighted to the ITF about JUI-F leadership’s aggressive attitude. We have a very good chance of beating India on our grass courts and the Indians know this that is why they are using all tactics to delay and shift the tie,” he said.

Pakistan’s top players, Aisam-ul-Haq and Aqeel Khan have also criticised the decision of the ITF to allow a shift in the Davis Cup venue.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/tenn...aita-salim-saifullah/article29942483.ece/amp/

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistans appeal rejected.

Tie to be played in Kazakhstan.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/tenn...hstan-to-be-neutral-venue/article30009002.ece

 

[Abdullah719]

Bhupathi says AITA, govt didn't back players in Pak Davis Cup furore

Spoiler

Former Davis Cup captain Mahesh Bhupathi on Thursday said India's tennis players were abandoned by their federation and the government when they expressed security concerns about travelling to Pakistan for a Davis Cup tie, which was eventually shifted due to security concerns.

Bhupathi also said that he still cannot get over the "hurt" caused by the All India Tennis Association's manner of sacking him but it was hardly a surprise given how the body has dealt with players in the last two decades.

"India-Pakistan is a unique scenario. Tension has been there since inception of Pakistan. No other sporting team has toured there for two decades and all of a sudden they are saying India tennis team should go, and everybody is criticising the boys for taking a stance, that was very unfair," Bhupathi said on the sidelines of an event here.

The 45-year-old was removed from the captain's position for refusing to travel to Pakistan for a Davis Cup tie on security grounds. The tie is now being held in Nur-Sultan, Kazakhstan starting Friday.

"I am still in touch with the boys on a daily basis. I was disappointed with the way the Federation dealt with it. When they wanted me to become captain, they flew down to Hyderabad, had a meeting with me," he said.

"I don't mind if they think that it is time for me to step out, but a courtesy phone call saying 'listen we think it is time to put someone new in the system' and I would have respected that but I didn't even get that call.

"Honestly the way the federation has dealt with not only me but everyone in Indian tennis for the last 20 years, there is no surprise. But at some level it kind of hurts," he added.

Bhupathi said neither the federation nor the government supported the players when they expressed reservations about travelling to Islamabad, the original venue of the tie.

"It is unfair that the AITA did not back the team, unfair that the government didn't say anything...So everyone kind of put their hands up, that shows how important tennis is in higher scheme of things in our country," added Bhupathi.

Bhupathi said the scenario would have been very different if it was the cricket team that was involved.

"Bilateral, tri-lateral, single-lateral, if somebody from the government said it is not safe to go to Pakistan, game would have been done, but nobody was willing to say that. But nobody else is going to Pakistan.

"If the Indian cricket team was supposed to go to Pakistan, MLAs (MPs) would have stood in Parliament and said something about it. But for us, it did not matter and so be it," he said fumed.

Bhupathi also said that he is in regular touch with current Davis Cup captain Rohit Rajpal despite the bitter end to his tenure.

"At the end of the day, regardless of what happened to me personally, the priority is that India beats them 2-0 tomorrow," he added.

Talking about the tie against Pakistan, Bhupathi said Team India would win without much trouble.

"It will be absolutely not difficult for them (Indian) to beat Pakistan anywhere in this world...we were always going to beat Pakistan regardless of where we played and who played for Pakistan," he said.

"The bottom line is that now the good news is we have a semi-decent draw. If we win we are playing Croatia," Bhupathi added.

He was speaking after inaugurating the newly re-laid tennis courts at the iconic Khar Gymkhana here in presence of Sania Mirza, Gymkhana's President Vivek Devnani and secretary Gaurav Kapadia.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...s-in-pak-davis-cup-furore-119112800451_1.html

 

[nextover666666]

No reasons were given against which he can appeal.

But what you claimed was, a chain of events which you and the PTF chief SPECULATED that could be the reasons. Since no reasons were given, you or PTI chief is in no position to dictate what are facts.

At this point, what you claim is simply speculation, conspiracy and hence nothing different than unicorn stories that you'll find in children's books.

This guy is a troll don't listen to him always posting negative on Pakistan

 

[Itachi]

This guy is a troll don't listen to him always posting negative on Pakistan

Saying something negative doesn't make one troll. If you have any counter argument, then I am ready to hear. If you don't have, then you are no different than those people in Twitter who always shouts troll, troll yet, when asked for the reason, have nothing to say.

 

[PakLFC]

Pak has boycotted the tie refusing to play in Kazakhstan.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...layers-boycott-india-tie-191128162711093.html

 

[Energy]

JUI sit-in played into India's hands, and it was enough to convince any neutral body.

Mullah brigade, shabaash. Chalo c'mon invent a fatwa to say tennis is haraam. Lag jao kaam par.

 

[Rafa]

JUI sit-in played into India's hands, and it was enough to convince any neutral body.

Mullah brigade, shabaash. Chalo c'mon invent a fatwa to say tennis is haraam. Lag jao kaam par.

Lot of factors creating political instability in the Country.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

JUI sit-in played into India's hands, and it was enough to convince any neutral body.

Mullah brigade, shabaash. Chalo c'mon invent a fatwa to say tennis is haraam. Lag jao kaam par.

Protests happen all over the globe on a daily basis, come to London any random weekend and you’ll see some group or another demonstrating, however you don’t see sporting events affected unless the situation is dangerous (not the case with the JUI-F protest).
Ridiculous, but unsurprising, decision by the ITF given that the cowardly Indian tennis players continuously harangued their tennis association to lodge appeal after appeal since September this year.
Security reasons is the official cause but no specifics have been mentioned.

 

[Arya]

Pak has boycotted the tie refusing to play in Kazakhstan.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...layers-boycott-india-tie-191128162711093.html

Good for all. India get the points they deserve, and Pakistan can claim that they did not lose a single match, it was a forfeit.

 

[Abdullah719]

India leads arch-rivals Pakistan in Davis Cup clash

NUR-SULTAN, Kazakhstan, — Ramkumar Ramanathan and Sumit Nagal easily won their opening singles battles on Friday to give India a 2-0 lead over Pakistan in a Davis Cup clash moved to neutral territory because of the arch-rivalry between the neighbors.

Ramanathan dispatched Muhammad Shoaib 6-0, 6-0 in 42 minutes in the first match in the Kazakhstan capital of Nur-Sultan. Nagal then outplayed Huzaifa Abdul Rehman 6-0, 6-2 in one hour and four minutes.

India will travel to Croatia in March 2020 for the world group qualifiers if they win the best-of-five rubber.

The International Tennis Federation moved the Asia/Oceania Group 1 away from Islamabad because of India's security fears even though Pakistan opposed the decision.

Pakistan's top players Aisam-ul-Haq Qureshi and Aqeel Khan pulled out of the tie in protest, giving teenagers Shoaib and Rehman their chance alongside Yousaf Khalil.

The match was also pushed back from September because of the security fears, as the two countries were wrangling over the disputed territory of Kashmir.

The nuclear-armed neighbors split angrily in 1947 after independence from Britain and have fought three wars since. Sport has also suffered badly.

India cut bilateral cricket ties with Pakistan after attacks in Mumbai in 2008 that authorities blamed on Pakistani militants.

India last played a Davis Cup tie in Pakistan in 1964, when they beat the hosts 4-0. Pakistan lost 3-2 when they played in Mumbai in 2006. — AFP

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/article/583730

 

[PakLFC]

Good for all. India get the points they deserve, and Pakistan can claim that they did not lose a single match, it was a forfeit.

No one really cares about this tournament anyway.

 

[Itachi]

No one really cares about this tournament anyway.

The quotes from different pak posters in this thread paints an opposite picture though.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

The quotes from different pak posters in this thread paints an opposite picture though.

That was to highlight the cowardice on display by the Indians orchestrated by their deposed captain Bhupathi.

 

[Itachi]

That was to highlight the cowardice on display by the Indians orchestrated by their deposed captain Bhupathi.

Fear of lives isn't cowardice. It is easy to sit around in front of a computer and call others coward but to face the situation is completely different.

 

[PakLFC]

The quotes from different pak posters in this thread paints an opposite picture though.

...and the Pak posters here do not even make up 1% of the countries population.

 

[Itachi]

...and the Pak posters here do not even make up 1% of the countries population.

Fair point. Extrapolation will indeed yield misleading numbers.

 

[nextover666666]

Saying something negative doesn't make one troll. If you have any counter argument, then I am ready to hear. If you don't have, then you are no different than those people in Twitter who always shouts troll, troll yet, when asked for the reason, have nothing to say.

Your always negative towards Pakistan I don't understand how you come on a Pakistani forum and post negative stuff about the people and its country it's okay to have your views but to always be negative about a country on its own forum is negative but your not the only Indian like this I've met a few like you so I am not suprised

 

[Swashbuckler]

So Pakistan did play the tie after all. India won the doubles 6-1, 6-3 to take the contest 3-0.

https://www.news18.com/news/sports/india-vs-pakistan-davis-cup-highlights-paes-jeevan-take-doubles-6-1-6-3-as-india-win-tie-3-0-2406307.html

Earlier India won both the singles.

Ramkumar Ramanathan opened the tie against Muhammad Shoaib in an emphatic manner as he trounced the Pakistani 6-0, 6-0 in just 42 minutes. Shoaib saved two match points in the end but Ramanathan was just too good for the Pakistani. The Indian put up a strong serving performance as Shoaib did not get a look at a single break point on the Indian's serve. On the other hand, the Indian converted his break points opportunities almost every time.

Sumit Nagal crushed Huzaifa Abdul Rehman 6-0, 6-2 to give India a 2-0 lead in the tie against Pakistan. It was a serving masterclass from Nagal, where Rehman failed to get a single break point. Rehman fought hard in his service games and even helped Pakistan register their first two games of the tie but was simply undone by the quality of the Indian.

Jeevan Nedunchezhiyan and Leander Paes won the match against Huzaifa Abdul Rehman and Muhammad Shoaib 6-1, 6-3 in the only doubles match of the tie between India and Pakistan. With the win, India win the tie 3-0, with two reverse singles still left in the schedule. Rehman-Shoaib began well by holding their serve but they went flat after that. Paes-Jeevan held their first serve and then went on a breaking spree to seal the first set. In the second set, Rehman-Shoaib showed some resistance as they fended off three break points in their first two service games to stay level but then Paes-Jeevan got the breakthrough eventually and easily sealed the match from there.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Sumit Nagal and Ramkumar Ramanathan regularly play in grand slam singles, they have beaten a few top 50 players in various tournaments. Ramkumar beat Thiem last year, in US open this year Nagal won the 1st set against Federer. Paes is a doubles legend with 18 doubles+mixed GS trophies, so obviously the contest was going to be a gigantic mismatch.

 

[Swashbuckler]

No one really cares about this tournament anyway.

Davis Cup is the premier international team event in men's tennis, so the players and fans do care about it. It is the main tennis event which pits country against country. Tennis also happens to be a popular global sport unlike cricket, hockey, badminton, squash, kabaddi etc.

 

[PakLFC]

Davis Cup is the premier international team event in men's tennis, so the players and fans do care about it. It is the main tennis event which pits country against country. Tennis also happens to be a popular global sport unlike cricket, hockey, badminton, squash, kabaddi etc.

Pak is not a Tennis loving country and never was. Even if we had won I wouldn't at all have been excited about it. Well the Olympics where Pak perform terribly is much bigger then the Davis Cup. Only reason Pak people cared about this match is coz the opponent was the arch rival India. Tennis still has a reputation of being an upper class Sport. It is not as if India has any chance of winning the tournament that I should be concerned.