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Death penalty?
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Wazeeri
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There is a difference between murder and execution.
Crime is made of two parts, the actual act and the intention. If someone was to kill someone accidently lets say by running them over on a dark road, than would this mean that they have stooped to a murderer's level? NO! The act of taking a life alone is not a crime and is not something which deserves to be looked down upon.
Executing a criminal similarly is with for the betterment of soceity and thus should not be enough to warrant a comparison between the morals of the justice system and that of a criminal.
There is a difference between murder and execution.
Crime is made of two parts, the actual act and the intention. If someone was to kill someone accidently lets say by running them over on a dark road, than would this mean that they have stooped to a murderer's level? NO! The act of taking a life alone is not a crime and is not something which deserves to be looked down upon.
Executing a criminal similarly is with for the betterment of soceity and thus should not be enough to warrant a comparison between the morals of the justice system and that of a criminal.
Wazeeri
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In your article you said you will set aside the argument of deterrence as it is still open to debate. I just didn't agree with your assertion that just because we are carrying out the same act we are morally on the same level as the criminal. I don't believe that is the case.
In your article you said you will set aside the argument of deterrence as it is still open to debate. I just didn't agree with your assertion that just because we are carrying out the same act we are morally on the same level as the criminal. I don't believe that is the case.
Hash
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I don't believe in the death penalty personally.
I don't think the state should have a right to decide when and how somebody should die. I also don't believe it acts as a deterrent.
I don't think the state should have a right to decide when and how somebody should die. I also don't believe it acts as a deterrent.
Wazeeri
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Cue the EU, Arab stats and "what if we get the wrong guy"....etc
Wazeeri
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I am some people.
A lifetime of confined mental torture is much more cruel than a few seconds of pain.
A lifetime of confined mental torture is much more cruel than a few seconds of pain.
Hash
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Inswinger said:
and me.
Although I don't think prison should be about lazing around in a cell all day. They should be made to provide a service to the country while serving their sentences....I believe prisoners in the UK make street signs. Things like that.
161
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The death penalty has always been and will always be just a public spectacle.
The masses have always been out for blood and politicians and rulers have always been all to quick to give it to them as long as they benefit from it.
A politician isn't going to get any votes for sparing a mass murdered, but he will connect with the fear and hatred of the average man if he sends such heinous individuals to their death.
The masses have always been out for blood and politicians and rulers have always been all to quick to give it to them as long as they benefit from it.
A politician isn't going to get any votes for sparing a mass murdered, but he will connect with the fear and hatred of the average man if he sends such heinous individuals to their death.
Wazeeri
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The only argument that I am willing to accept against capital punishment is that of punishing the innocent in error.
This is however more a problem of the judicial systems and forensic techniques rather than of the morality of the punishment.
This is however more a problem of the judicial systems and forensic techniques rather than of the morality of the punishment.
161
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Wazeeri said:
You speak as though to kill is the default position ?
Shouldn't to not kill be the default position ?
Shouldn't society have a dam good reason before someone is sent to death?
As I posted above .. there is no such reason .. death penalty is just a public stunt to quench the blood lust of the average joe.
Wazeeri
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The death penalty should be avoided in as many cases as possible. If the criminal shows remorse than he should be given a chance (by the family of the victim) I don't believe in imprisoning people for life.
Hash
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Wazeeri said:
The family of the victim should have no say in the punishment. A criminal sentence is not something which should be made on emotional grounds.
Wazeeri
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Laws of different nations have been in existence only because of the need to maintain peace. When two parties have a disagreement they goto the courts to settle it instead of fighting it out between themselve ala NWFP.
The family of the victim is the party most affected by the crime and therefore it should be upto them to say whether the matter has been settled or not.
Vegitto1
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I believe in natural law, an eye for an eye, therefore I fully support the death penalty in cases where it is 100% clear that the defendant was guilty of murder.
Fully agree with this point Wazeeri made earlier on. You cannot compare execution to a murder.
However, in cases where their is a slightest chance of error, I think that Life imprisonment should apply. i.e. where it is 99% evident that the defendant was guilty, however their is still a slight element of doubt.
Moreover, those who argue life imprisonment should know it is a theoratical concept. hardly any prisoner does life. and By life it usually means 15 years imprisonment. Moreover, I think it is highly impractical to give life imprisonment sentences to even hardcore professional murders, considering the fact that we are paying for their upkeep.
Why does society needs to pay to keep murderers alive? That same money could be spent on other more useful areas which would benefit the society more then keeping murderers alive in a prison.
Fully agree with this point Wazeeri made earlier on. You cannot compare execution to a murder.
However, in cases where their is a slightest chance of error, I think that Life imprisonment should apply. i.e. where it is 99% evident that the defendant was guilty, however their is still a slight element of doubt.
Moreover, those who argue life imprisonment should know it is a theoratical concept. hardly any prisoner does life. and By life it usually means 15 years imprisonment. Moreover, I think it is highly impractical to give life imprisonment sentences to even hardcore professional murders, considering the fact that we are paying for their upkeep.
Why does society needs to pay to keep murderers alive? That same money could be spent on other more useful areas which would benefit the society more then keeping murderers alive in a prison.
Wazeeri
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Do you mean South Africans
It's exactly the same thing - somebody taking somebody's life. There are plenty of murders in real life that have been committed by someone who has tried to rid the world of a supposed evil, but it doesn't disguise the fact that they unlawfully and unjustly put somebody to death. The simple truth is that only fate should decide when a person dies, whereas all we can do is keep those who are dangerous away from those who they would endanger, and from there let nature take its course.
Pretty much every case has at least 1% error. Murders are not committed in front of video cameras, and even if they are they're not usually very revealing. Murderers are convicted on circumstantial evidence such as forensics and witness testimony. Even supposed murderers who have pleaded guilty have eventually turned out not to have done anything. There are plenty of idiots out there, and human testimony can easily be sleighted by a grudge.
Even forensic evidence can only prove that somebody was at the scene of the crime, except in the case of a murder-rape.
The aim of imprisonment is supposedly rehabilitation. There are probably murderers who genuinely are rehabilitated after "X" Years. However, serial killers and child killers should immediately be imprisoned for a life term. It's not anyone's fault that life isn't life anyway - it should be. That the current system is failing because of a simple flaw that could easily be rectified is no justification for the death penalty though. In the UK, prisoners are being let out simply to save space and money.
Because of appeals, counter-appeals and the various other costs associated with putting someone to death, it actually costs even more to execute someone than it does to imprison somebody for life.
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Wazeeri
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So if I was to kill someone in an accident I will be a murderer?
Because that fits your description of somebody taking somebody's life
We are talking about killing someone justly and law fully. That is what the topic is about.
The above arguments and the many you have presented along side it are arguments against the current level of human intelligence. Unless ofcourse you are going to argue that an innocent person could be put to death but even still it could be argued that you could possibly imprison someone for life because of the failures of forensic sciences.
If you want to argue for a 100% proof system than you will have to put up with 100% of unconvicted criminals. It is just not practical. You have to see the evidence for and against and base a judgement on the net weight of the two. It would be brilliant if we had a system which could provide 100% proof (even if there was the liberals among us would argue that it is infringement of privacy) but we don't have such a system, human judgemennt is the only way we can tackle crime.
You earlier made an argument that The death penalty is barbaric, unneccessary and unreliable.
Your alternative is imprisonment.
Taking the three descriptions in bold.
BARBARIC
I would rather be barbaric than cruel enough to put a human being through a whole life of mental torture.
UNECCESSARY
Can you explain the necessity of imprisonment. Especially for life?
When it drains funds and has no purpose other than inputting a criminal and outputting his dead body. A lot like capital punishment only longer and more torturous.
UNRELIABLE
What is the reliability of imprisonment like? How many prisoners do you think come out new men?
Wazeeri
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You mean when a person is given life imprisonment he or she doesn't appeal against it?
If you want to be pedantic, between the years of 1939 and 1945, six million Jews were killed lawfully by Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party - because he made it law. Law is not necessarily right, for there's the law of God and the law of the land. Armed forces kill people, and that's not exactly just but people say it is so because it's a different kind of murder: state-sanctioned murder.
Imprisonment is clearly more humane because it keeps the person alive. There's no doubt there's still a level of barbarism behind it, but there's a scale here, and on the scale, I'd happily choose life over death regardless of its form.
As far as I'm concerned, if you kill somebody DELIBERATELY (a word I admittedly missed) you are a murderer. We're talking about somebody being killed deliberately here - as in pre-planned, and thus, first degree murder.
Regarding appeals, counter-appeals and whether they're equally in place in normal imprisonment, I am only repeating something I've read. Here's an interesting website that agrees with me:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108#FromDPIC
Imprisonment is clearly more humane because it keeps the person alive. There's no doubt there's still a level of barbarism behind it, but there's a scale here, and on the scale, I'd happily choose life over death regardless of its form.
As far as I'm concerned, if you kill somebody DELIBERATELY (a word I admittedly missed) you are a murderer. We're talking about somebody being killed deliberately here - as in pre-planned, and thus, first degree murder.
Regarding appeals, counter-appeals and whether they're equally in place in normal imprisonment, I am only repeating something I've read. Here's an interesting website that agrees with me:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108#FromDPIC
Wazeeri
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Augustus you are losing course of the argument I think. We are discussing whether this should be introduced into law not whether law has always been right or not.
People who eventually end up killing themselves would disagree with you.
If you are going to use legal terms than I will have to be pedantic. Execution is not first degree murder.
and I don't mind you calling executions murder because ity would just be splitting hair if we got into that argument but as far as I am concerned executing someone is an acceptable murder.
As for the link I am sure if you read the very first line you will see that argument is based on the difference between DIFFERENT CRIMES. Aggravated murder and murder.
Vegitto1
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Augustus said:
First of all, you are comparing genocide with state punishment. These are two completely different things. Hitler agenda was that of racial cleansing regardless of the fact whether the person was a criminal or not. Whereas, we are talking about captial punishment for those who purposefully and with malice take life of another human being.
You mention Law of God i.e. Natural Law. Natural Law supports captial punishment. The punishment should fit the crime. Life imprisonment does not act as a deterrent, since there is no such thing as Life Imprisonment.
I concede that imprisonment is more humane, however, I fail to understand why would you want to send a murderer to prison for life (15 years). Is it so that he can plan his next murder victim? or that he uses the gym facilities and other resources to become even more brutal and barbaric?
As far as choice is concerned, when you murder someone (within the definition you provided) you forfiet your right to life. You cannot pick and choose your punishment.
iZeeshan
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There is way too much to say about this, but all I will say is this:
Killing a man, IMHO, is no punishment at all.
Sorry, let me rephrase that, "Executing a man, IMHO, is hardly a punishment."
Killing a man, IMHO, is no punishment at all.
Sorry, let me rephrase that, "Executing a man, IMHO, is hardly a punishment."
gazza619
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What do you guys think about death penalty. Does having the penalty or not have the penalty have any consequences on society?
Do the countries who have the penalty are now more peaceful? If not death penalty, then what should be imposed as a maximum punishment?
Do the countries who have the penalty are now more peaceful? If not death penalty, then what should be imposed as a maximum punishment?
Justcrazy
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But the murderer is doing exactly that !!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-46658878
Just read this, an Iranian businessman was executed for bribery and forging documents to secure loans ....
Your typical naïve desi will clap and say Iran is a great place and if only the SC had such rules, India/Pakistan would have been a first world country ...........
What they will ignore is that most likely this is a case of the right people not getting the right share of proceeds ... there is a lot of corruption in iran among the ruling classes, and not all of it is based on loans and forged signatures. ....
Just read this, an Iranian businessman was executed for bribery and forging documents to secure loans ....
Your typical naïve desi will clap and say Iran is a great place and if only the SC had such rules, India/Pakistan would have been a first world country ...........
What they will ignore is that most likely this is a case of the right people not getting the right share of proceeds ... there is a lot of corruption in iran among the ruling classes, and not all of it is based on loans and forged signatures. ....
Pakistanian
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The death penalty should only be used for murderers, serial killers/psychopaths, terrorists, rapists and pedos.
Other crimes only warrant jailtime, financial penalties or maybe volunteer work.
Other crimes only warrant jailtime, financial penalties or maybe volunteer work.
Robert
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In my view it makes the state as bad as the murderer.
Among Western democracies only some parts of the USA have it and that country is the most violent.
KingKhanWC
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Come on Robert western democracies are hardly the example of justice. You supported the bombings in Iraq by Bush snr which resulted in many deaths of innocent people. Of course im not suggesting you think it's ok to bomb innocent people but you still support the right of a nation to meet out it's version of justice even if it results in collateral damage. At least with the death penalty a court will decide if the person is guilty before he is killed.
gazza619
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Scary to hear that you will get executed for forging documents for a loan.
Dont you think though there after this execution someone will think a million times before forging documents in Iran?
What should be set as maximum punishment?
Robert
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In both cases the minimum force to achieve the outcome is applied. In the case if the common murderer, s/he gets life imprisonment to protect the public. In the 1991 case of the invader Saddam, military (only) targets were attacked in the authority of the UN to protect the public of Kuwait.
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sweep_shot
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I support death penalty for these people:
- Animal abusers.
- Pedophiles.
- Serial killers.
- Mass shooters.
- Drug cartels.
- Violent gang members.
- Those who collude with enemy states (for example, Sheikh Hasina).
- Also, a few more categories.
- Animal abusers.
- Pedophiles.
- Serial killers.
- Mass shooters.
- Drug cartels.
- Violent gang members.
- Those who collude with enemy states (for example, Sheikh Hasina).
- Also, a few more categories.
G0rmintAunty
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No one should have the power to kill another human being, whatever the reason. I know we are emotional beings but once you go down that slippery slope, it is hard to come back. Just lock them up forever and throw away the key, solitary confinement for the more severe cases, that would be a daily punishment instead of just an easy death.
Justcrazy
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But the murderer has also killed someone.
Hitman
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Seriously? UK grooming gangs ring a bell?I support death penalty for these people:
- Animal abusers.
- Pedophiles.
- Serial killers.
- Mass shooters.
- Drug cartels.
- Violent gang members.
- Those who collude with enemy states (for example, Sheikh Hasina).
- Also, a few more categories.
Across the world in recent years I've seen more and more cases where inmates have been exonerated sometimes after serving 20 or more years. In one instance I recall a man in the US released after serving 40 years in prison, his entire adult life had been taken from him.
I've always maintained that the death penalty should not be implemented anywhere not because I don't the true criminals don't deserve it - but you just cannot risk getting it wrong.
I've always maintained that the death penalty should not be implemented anywhere not because I don't the true criminals don't deserve it - but you just cannot risk getting it wrong.
Justcrazy
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If there is law and guilty is proved without doubt , irrespective of person color , religion or status , should be given death penalty.Seriously? UK grooming gangs ring a bell?
Justcrazy
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It is given in rarest of rare cases.
sweep_shot
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If evidences are overwhelming and crimes are severe, nothing wrong with executions.
For example, violent criminals and pedophiles. I think it is better to put them down to protect society.
DeadlyVenom
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If grooming gang had been handled properly and death penalties given a few years ago that would have been the end of the issue.
Justcrazy
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You are against only gangs or individuals as well?
big_gamer007
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Reading posts from 2008 shows how good PP discussions used to be, civilised and people used to put their points forward with respect. Now it’s mostly just a troll fest.
Anyways, on topic, I am in support of deaths penalty for heinous cases of rapes, murders, terrorism etc. Why waste taxpayers money on keeping vermin’s guilty of such crimes alive in jail? Death penalty or strict laws also act as a strong deterrence for criminals, I think Middle East is a classic case where countries like UAE, Saudi etc have a low crime rate due to it.
Anyways, on topic, I am in support of deaths penalty for heinous cases of rapes, murders, terrorism etc. Why waste taxpayers money on keeping vermin’s guilty of such crimes alive in jail? Death penalty or strict laws also act as a strong deterrence for criminals, I think Middle East is a classic case where countries like UAE, Saudi etc have a low crime rate due to it.
Bhaijaan
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PP in 2025 is much better moderated.
Those old discussions might seem more civilized now but the truth is that these are the rare threads that are still visible. Many of the dumb threads from 2005-2010 era have been deleted for good.
Many of the moderators in the past wouldn't allow Non Muslims, especially Hindus to openly debate here. AZ and Cover Drive in particular would conspire to block any Indian poster with a grain of personality or debating guts. Its so much better in 2025, the current crop of moderators are all highly secure, open minded, free speech supporters.
DeadlyVenom
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Anyone who rapes should be given death penalty whether it is as part of a gang or an individual.
KingKhanWC
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Seriously? UK grooming gangs ring a bell?
They deserve it but it should be worldwide. If implemented in India it would prob cut your population in half
sweep_shot
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LOL! Good one.
finalfantasy7
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dont you think that locking someone up for life is very expensive, also not like any country in the world has dealth with people who have commited big crimes like, murders, rape, drugs, peodo's
all countries judges just start to give smaller sentenses and thus creating another problem as only the scandanavians have allowed ex prisioners to intergrate into society once released - every other country has a huge problem that the criminal gets resentenced for similar crime
ElRaja
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i support it, only on the grounds that the tax payer shouldnt pay for the living costs of someone guilt of such crimes, however at the same time u then have to balance the expedituous provision of justice with the likelihood of getting it wrong, wihch is tricky. often times the costs of execution, leagal wrangles, etc, end up costing more than letting someone die on their own clock, esp if the perpetrator is old. its a tough one.
finalfantasy7
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if you compare todays police / crime scene investigators / doctors / judges to 40 years = we have sigficicantly improved. why use what occured 40yrs ago in todays science when we know its way outdated
Justcrazy
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If that is the case , you cannot hold only Muslims to be responsible .
Secondly , any crime when you judge various factors is involved. It is not judged like open and shut.
Justcrazy
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You were reading the posts here before joining ?
Justcrazy
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If Tax player does not pay , who will ? Naturally it will be from tax money.
DeadlyVenom
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I am not holding only Muslims responsible, in fact my position is that we Muslims are happy for the death penalty to be applied no matter the religion of the perpetrators.
In the case of the grooming gangs even if they are Muslim we would be happy for them to be put to death.
Justcrazy
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Yes naturally laws will be implemented irrespective of religion or nationality.
G0rmintAunty
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Yes, my point is we have no right to kill anyone either other wise we are no better than them.
G0rmintAunty
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If it's expensive then its expensive it's like one of the social costs building infrastructure, providing services etc. I don't mind if they are taxing me for it because that's what living and being part of a society entails. If we stoop down to their level who have killed then we are no more better or morally superior to them.
finalfantasy7
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i do disagree with you on this, say if the gujrati riots have occured - in a western society - so you have better police, doctors, crime scene investagators, camera etc - you get the point
i side with death penalty for those who we can prove that have killed a innocent,
i like in the UK, so yes pay taxes for prison - fine with putting people in prison for most crimes - but with serious crimes like huge mafia bosses / school shootings / even rando shooting / hugge money laundering cases / rapists / pedo's
Prison system hasnt worked here in the west - other than the scandinavian countries.
We are now seeing big murderers get 18 yrs - more like living in a 4 star hotel (cuz the prison guards are paid off) - no rules applies to them in prison, then getting released after doing 8-9yrs.
Here in the UK the prison are completely full - just google search - around 6 months - we had to release loads of criminals becasue all uk jails are full and over run with inmates - they messed up and released big time drug releases by accident.
ask any uk poster - about our prison system, but ths is the same for all european countries bar scandinavians ones
even @Rajdeep best mate been in priosn like 10 times all early releases = tommy robinson
Nearly 40,000 prisoners released early under government scheme:
Nearly 40,000 prisoners released early under government scheme
The early release scheme was launched in September 2024 as an emergency measure to tackle overcrowding.
www.bbc.co.uk
Prison system came 'within days of collapse' - and not just once:
Prison system came 'within days of collapse' - and not just once
The pressure on prisons, which Sir Keir Starmer has previously blamed on the Tories, has seen the government decide to release some prisoners early. Longer term solutions include building more jails and changes to parole.
......................................................................................................................................................
Uk prison report =
Yes, UK prisons, especially in England and Wales, are critically full and overcrowded in 2025, operating near or above official capacity (around 98-99% full), leading to early releases and significant strain, with some reports noting severe overcrowding in specific jails and projections indicating continued population growth.
Key Points:
- High Occupancy Rates:
Prisons are consistently running at extreme occupancy levels, often exceeding comfortable or efficient operational limits.
- Overcrowding:
Many facilities are holding more inmates than their certified capacity, with some prisons housing significantly more people than they were designed for.
- Government Response:
To manage the crisis, the government has used emergency measures, including releasing thousands of prisoners early and delaying recalls, while also planning new prison builds.
- Projections:
Despite these efforts, projections from late 2024 and 2025 suggest the prison population will continue to rise, placing further pressure on the system.
- Impact:
The overcrowding hinders rehabilitation, strains staff, and risks a breakdown in law and order, potentially impacting court functions and police ability to make arrests.
- Overcrowding:
Justcrazy
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You saying that no one has the right to kill anyone , but in practical life killings do happen. Laws are for real life scenarios. So if someone transgresses the others right , he has to be punished with that.
Justcrazy
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Its not about taxes only , its about serving justice.
G0rmintAunty
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i do disagree with you on this, say if the gujrati riots have occured - in a western society - so you have better police, doctors, crime scene investagators, camera etc - you get the point
i side with death penalty for those who we can prove that have killed a innocent,
i like in the UK, so yes pay taxes for prison - fine with putting people in prison for most crimes - but with serious crimes like huge mafia bosses / school shootings / even rando shooting / hugge money laundering cases / rapists / pedo's
Prison system hasnt worked here in the west - other than the scandinavian countries.
We are now seeing big murderers get 18 yrs - more like living in a 4 star hotel (cuz the prison guards are paid off) - no rules applies to them in prison, then getting released after doing 8-9yrs.
Here in the UK the prison are completely full - just google search - around 6 months - we had to release loads of criminals becasue all uk jails are full and over run with inmates - they messed up and released big time drug releases by accident.
ask any uk poster - about our prison system, but ths is the same for all european countries bar scandinavians ones
even @Rajdeep best mate been in priosn like 10 times all early releases = tommy robinson
Nearly 40,000 prisoners released early under government scheme:
Nearly 40,000 prisoners released early under government scheme
The early release scheme was launched in September 2024 as an emergency measure to tackle overcrowding.
Prison system came 'within days of collapse' - and not just once:
Prison system came 'within days of collapse' - and not just once
The pressure on prisons, which Sir Keir Starmer has previously blamed on the Tories, has seen the government decide to release some prisoners early. Longer term solutions include building more jails and changes to parole.news.sky.com
......................................................................................................................................................
Uk prison report =
Yes, UK prisons, especially in England and Wales, are critically full and overcrowded in 2025, operating near or above official capacity (around 98-99% full), leading to early releases and significant strain, with some reports noting severe overcrowding in specific jails and projections indicating continued population growth.
Key Points:
In summary: The situation is a severe, ongoing crisis, with the prison system beyond full in practical terms, despite official capacity figures being adjusted.
- High Occupancy Rates:
Prisons are consistently running at extreme occupancy levels, often exceeding comfortable or efficient operational limits.
- Overcrowding:
Many facilities are holding more inmates than their certified capacity, with some prisons housing significantly more people than they were designed for.- Government Response:
To manage the crisis, the government has used emergency measures, including releasing thousands of prisoners early and delaying recalls, while also planning new prison builds.- Projections:
Despite these efforts, projections from late 2024 and 2025 suggest the prison population will continue to rise, placing further pressure on the system.- Impact:
The overcrowding hinders rehabilitation, strains staff, and risks a breakdown in law and order, potentially impacting court functions and police ability to make arrests.
I also live in an European country that's why I said I don't mind my taxes going towards these services. Our stance should be fixed that we CANNOT kill anyone under any circumstances. We should instead try to root out the problems that are causing crime and the prisons to overflow. Maybe these are birthing pains of a society gearing towards civility.
In order to evolve we should move away from this eye for an eye justice. That is why the people handing out the justice should always be neutral and as devoid of emotion (with regards to the case) as possible.
If prison system haven't worked other than in Scandinavian countries then we should try to learn from them and try to figure out why we can't implement it in our respective countries too. Maybe it will require an upheaval of the entire system but in time it can be done.
I am not willing to accept that we can kill people just because there is no place to currently store them. It is just my opinion and I may be wrong but we have to better than the criminals.
G0rmintAunty
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Yes of course, just that WE do not have the right to do what the murderers did and kill. Which is now the law for most of the West except for this hillbilly 'mericuns.
sweep_shot
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Scandinavian criminals are more civilized compared to criminals from third world countries and even other western countries.
I do not think Scandinavian approach would work in other places.
Death penalty is a battle-tested, time-tested deterrent. It should be used on the worst of the worst.
G0rmintAunty
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Then our goal should be to learn from the Scandinavians and try to implement that, they do not come from Mars. The approach won't work at the start due to various factors but our goal should be to strive towards that.
Also there is no proof that the death penalty penalty is a "time tested deterrent" to crime. Please show proof to back this claim. Those who committed those crimes will continue committing it no matter the punishment. Our goal should be try to find out the factors that lead to the crimes and resolve them. Again that is a long road ahead but we have to stay the path.
sweep_shot
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I think harsh punishments and strict laws work too.
Just look at Saudi Arabia and other gulf states. Very low crimes there. Also, China has a very low crime rate.
G0rmintAunty
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SA, Dubai etc don't have low crime rates due to fear of the punishments. I am originally from the Gulf, there are many factors to it. For eg Dubai is very small and full of informants, the intelligence gathering is very good. Around 85 percent of the population are expats who have just come to earn for a few years and don't want any trouble, they also are kicked out at the smallest of mistakes so they just try to stay in their lane. Having said that, there was quite a bit of crime when I was there, mostly committed by locals or international professionals but the media was very regulated by the government and rarely printed those stories. China once again has almost no media transparency so whatever internal numbers they post must be taken with a grain of salt.
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If you have to blindly follow the west , then no point of any discussion here .
If you are so concerned about right to live of murderers , then by imprisonment also you are negating their right to free movement and social life.
Rights are not absolute , they never have been.
finalfantasy7
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i get where you are coming from, i do support that also,
however their are people who are just evil and will do harm for no reason = we in the west still havent dealt with most things which cause the problem = however we already know what causes the problems.
Im not a conservative voter, but even the liberals parties in 99% countries are super corrupt and dont want to fix most of the problems which have generally occured from bad practises by both business / government.
imo - i think the green party for most countries in the world are the only party who will try to do what you say, but when youtes occur..... they dont even get 7% of the votes currently = meaning the voters dont even believe in the concept
sweep_shot
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Agree.
Pedophiles should 100% be put down. Those who harm children do not deserve to live.
Also, violent criminals should be put down because they pose threats for other people.
At the end of the day, objective should be to keep society safe and reduce danger.
G0rmintAunty
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I'm not blindly following the West but they usually top all the metrics when it comes to human rights. That could also be the reason why you chose to live there. Currently their beliefs and system corresponds with mine and not the other way around. It is not the best and subject to corruption, mishandling or the many other human factors but they are going in the right direction.
Of course if someone has committed murder they will not be allowed to roam free because we are a country of laws (whatever agreed upon laws exist at the time). I am just against lowering myself to the level of the criminals and ourselves commit murder. We have to set a moral example if we are to sustain law that isn't divine. Interestingly here in Germany if someone tries to escape prison it is not considered an offence and no further punishment or time is added to the sentence because it is considered a natural human reaction to imprisonment.
Like all laws that aren't divine it will keep on changing and evolving by US and not what some mythical imaginary creator said thousands of years ago.
My only point is that we should not have the right to kill another person because then there will be no difference between them and us.
Justcrazy
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The west tops the metrics of human rights ? What about the past ? Did they uphold the human rights in their colonies?
When you are saying that a person does not have right to kill others , the question you need to answer is why ? Because of Human rights , is this true and you agree till here ?
sweep_shot
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Here is a mother who murdered his 6-year old child.
Do you want this type of human garbage to stay alive? I think it is better to put this type of monster down to protect society.
sweep_shot
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@G0rmintAunty, do you want this type of human garbage to stay alive? I think it is better to put this type of monster down to protect society.
Death penalty should be reserved for scums like this lady.
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