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Debate: Democracy Is Compatible With Islam: Al Azhar

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Top Sunni body calls for democratic Egypt
By Heba Saleh in Cairo

Al-Azhar, the Cairo-based religious institution regarded as the highest authority in Sunni Islam, has issued an unprecedented document spelling out a bold vision for the future of Egypt as a “democratic, constitutional and modern state”.
Drafted by Ahmed al Tayeb, the Grand Imam of al-Azhar, along with a group of Egyptian intellectuals who include Christians – also a first – the document says Egypt should hold elections, respect basic rights, adhere to its international covenants and guarantee “full protection and total respect” to places of worship belonging to other religions.

The institution, whose views resonate across the Sunni Islamic world, has thrown its weight and prestige behind a modern vision of the state “ruled by law and law alone”.
Al-Azhar’s intervention comes as Egyptians find themselves mired in an intense debate about the country’s future following the revolution which ousted the regime of Hosni Mubarak, the former president.
Islamists and liberals have been pulling in different directions with each group seeking to expand its political influence and to fashion the future state in its image. Although intended as a statement on “the future of Egypt”, its propositions are likely to have an impact on other Muslim countries where the relationship between state and religion is in question.
“This is the first comprehensive declaration about specific matters that are the subject of dispute,” said Gamal al-Ghitani, a novelist who took part in forging the document. “Al-Azhar is siding with modernity and rejecting the concept of the theocratic state. This is something like a bill of basic rights which speaks to Muslims everywhere.”
To “regain its original intellectual role, and global influence”, al-Azhar also makes a bid for independence from the Egyptian state in the same document. Fettered by government control for more than half a century, the institution is seeking a return to an old system under which the Grand Imam was elected by senior religious scholars, and not appointed by the president.
Significantly the Azhar document does not call for the application of sharia law, but says that laws would be based on “the principles of Islamic law” – widely interpreted as the universal values of freedom, justice and equality.

It also insists that legislation is the job of elected representatives, an apparent response to more extreme voices who claim that democracy is incompatible with Islam, and say that legislating through an elected assembly is sinful because it replaces God’s law with people’s law.
Alongside, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood – expected to do well in the next election – a vocal Salafi current has emerged in the turmoil of Egypt’s transition. It espouses an ultraconservative interpretation of religion similar to that of Saudi Arabia.
A heated and highly polarised debate has raged in recent weeks raising fears of a deepening fracture in society between those who would like to see the country go in a more Islamist direction, and others who fear a slide towards the imposition of a strict form of Islamic rule.
Mahmoud Azab, the spokesman of al-Azhar, said his institution aimed at reassuring the Egyptian public using language it understood.
“Egyptians are afraid they would come under the rule of an autocratic theocracy,” he said. “Domestic and international fears are justified because of some of the calls we are now hearing. But we are telling people our religion does not include rule by a theocratic state.”
The document also addresses the fears of the Coptic Christian minority – an estimated 10 per cent of the population – that in the future they could become second class citizens.
It says: “The exploitation of religion and its use to create division, conflict and enmity between citizens should be criminalised. Inciting religious discrimination or sectarian and chauvinistic tendencies should be considered a crime against the nation.”
Rashad Bayoumi, the deputy leader of the Muslim Brotherhood told the Financial Times the document was “exemplary”.


How do you guys view this?
 
A Muslim-majority state with a system of governance which retains Islamic values but at the same time incorporates the basic values of democracy seems fair enough.

It says: “The exploitation of religion and its use to create division, conflict and enmity between citizens should be criminalised. Inciting religious discrimination or sectarian and chauvinistic tendencies should be considered a crime against the nation.”
This is particular is a positive step.
 
In my view, it could be one of the path breaking documents that will have wider and positive implications across muslim world. The persons behind the creation of the document are in tune with modern times. A positive and bold step that should give direction to other muslim majority nations.
 
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Many Upper Class land/business owning folks sorry excuse for "educated children" that routinely mock and decry and rally against Democracy; Turkey's voting for Christmas as I see it.

They routinely cite illiteracy as the reason Democracy can't work - Then support the closing of Public schools and to top it all justify their position as being "Islamic" as Zaid Hamid and Co. say we need the Caliphate now (Which they view as totally against democracy in all its forms)

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Its what Mohammed Ali Jinnah looks to have wanted; A confident progressive Islamic state.


Not so secular to be Ataturk's Turkey

Not so enthrall to the Religious elite as Iran.

Nor a de facto Relgious/Psuedo-Monarchy AKA Saudi.

A progressive nation, keeping the best elements of South Asian culture and all its variety whilst enshrining key laws to safe guard basic Human rights such as education, health food and shelter in a welfare system founded on Islamic ideals.

The key question is where the MIlitary, Intelligence services, Judiciary, Parliament and Relgious Scholars lie in relation to each other; Its rather like chemistry - Upset the ratio and all hell breaks loose.

And encouraging the sects to live side a by side in a tribalistic/caste/provincial nation, is very hard.
 
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I think we need to accept that a true Islamic system CANNOT be equal to a Western Style democratic system.

For example. in an Islamic state, a ruler who drinks or womanizes, however well he runs the country in terms of providing jobs/education/health etc, cannot be allowed to rule Muslims.

For a Muslim state, the leader must be a pious Muslim.

How do you ELECT amongst pious Muslims? Do we say that one is less pious?
 
I think we need to accept that a true Islamic system CANNOT be equal to a Western Style democratic system.

why not ? Draft an islam based constitution and if he womanises or drinks or isn't pious , vote him out in the next election or impeach him midterm.
 
I think we need to accept that a true Islamic system CANNOT be equal to a Western Style democratic system.

For example. in an Islamic state, a ruler who drinks or womanizes, however well he runs the country in terms of providing jobs/education/health etc, cannot be allowed to rule Muslims.

Bill Clinton was impeached.

Though, for us to have a choice in our leaders you need a sufficiently strong and educated population. Both in Islam and in other areas.

I agree that it would be different though, it would be much less dependant on the one figure head if the basis for leadership is religion alone. You would have to have some sort of inner circle or larger group of individuals who have specialized knowledge of issues for it to work.
 
I think we need to accept that a true Islamic system CANNOT be equal to a Western Style democratic system.

For example. in an Islamic state, a ruler who drinks or womanizes, however well he runs the country in terms of providing jobs/education/health etc, cannot be allowed to rule Muslims.

For a Muslim state, the leader must be a pious Muslim.

How do you ELECT amongst pious Muslims? Do we say that one is less pious?

Same way Sahaba did it!

The Prophet (saw) did not explicitly state Abu Bakr should succeed him but it was understood.

Abu Bakr Directly chose Umar

Umar left it to the people to decide between 6 candidates.

Politics does not solely depend on the piety of the candidate otherwise there was other Muslims who lived pious ascetic lifestyles that could have been selected. As well as being pious they should be fit to lead. Their fitness to lead is what people are electing them on not piety.
 
http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2017/10/05/4745118.htm

The Once and Future Azhar: On the Credibility of Sunni Islam's Preeminent Institution

H.A. Hellyer ABC Religion and Ethics Updated 16 Oct 2017 (First posted 5 Oct 2017)

The Egyptian state has repeatedly tried to instrumentalize al-Azhar. Those tempted by extremism are unlikely to respond favourably to interventions by Azhari scholars if they see them as co-opted.

H.A. Hellyer is senior non-resident fellow at the Atlantic Council and the Royal United Services Institute. He is the author of Muslims of Europe: The "Other" Europeans and A Revolution Undone: Egypt's Road Beyond Revolt.
 
A modern democratic Islamic state can work in theory. Some compromises will have to be made which the article mentions.

-Society will have to accept that legislation is the job of elected individuals, as in, reject the concept of a theocratic state.

-The laws be based on Islamic principles, but not Sharia law in itself (this will probably be the biggest compromise).

-Avoid religious discrimination, as in empower religious minorities. This will probably require a major societal
shift.


A marriage between secularism and Islam. You have a state religion but you are not an Islamic state.
 
Sounds good, doesn't work.

Democracy never works well practically, not everyone can see and do the right thing (thats why leaders are leaders and not common people). and most of the time, people are not even given that right.


Islam on the other hand accepts this fact and work over an accountable model where people will Nawaz will be chopped in pieces for doing such crimes.


Pakistan sucks because we are trying to stick our legs in both ships at same time.
 
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