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Defend or chase against England?

msb314

msb314

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Make no mistake - we MUST chase against England if we are to have a chance

Says it all really.

There is no way we should bat first - England have more than enough firepower to chase anything down with them batting all the way down to number 9.

I can see PP rejoicing if we post 280 odd only for England to blaze down the target in 40 overs with many wickets to spare.

If we bowl first - we can hopefully take early wickets and tie their scoring down. Set defensive fields otherwise and go in full damage limitation mode and hope the target is less than 320. We also bat deep so chasing should not be a big psychological hurdle

Our victory in the 5th ODI at Cardiff last year should give us plenty of confidence as well.

We have chased successfully twice in a row now and no reason why we cannot do it again.
[MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION]
 
And there is no way Pakistan is chasing anything over 250 against a quality English bowling attack . .

The only chance Pakistan has in this game is batting first and hope that the pressure gets the the English line up . . Cuz even a decent English batting performance will propel them to 300 . . And we can't chase anything over 250 . .
 
chasing is the way forward. lets make your weakness your strength. drop hafeez and imad play harris and shadab instead. Give azhar a role of holding onto one end. dont play rash shot but look for singles and doubles.
 
Depending on the type of track you get. If it is a road chasing is ideal. But Pakistan lacks big hitters. They can't catch up slow initial run rates.
 
ICC may have seam friendly wicket to help Pakistan advance for India vs Pakistan final.
 
We need early wickets regardless of batting or bowling first
 
Bowling will determine how the team does. Whether it's in the first innings or second innings.

The benefit of chasing is the batting order knows what the required run rate is. This brings order to their approach just like we saw today.

Any other day and Sarfraz + Amir would have folded going for big shots. However, the RRR made sure they remained patient.
 
No way. We have to bat first if the sun is out. Our bowling attack looks good so if we can get 280 I will be confident of defending that.
 
PakLFC said:
No way. We have to bat first if the sun is out. Our bowling attack looks good so if we can get 280 I will be confident of defending that.
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If the sun is out - England will chase 280 in 40 overs at most.
 
msb314 said:
If the sun is out - England will chase 280 in 40 overs at most.
Click to expand...

Our bowlers will test them more then they have been up until now. Batting second we will just collapse as always. England will not drop the catches Sri Lanka did letting us of the hook.
 
Seeing how bad we've batted this tournament, I'd bat first. Better chance of putting out a decent total to defend.

Our line up are struggling with the bat. Not a single batsman who seems to be in form and scoring. Sarfraz's stats are misleading in this tournament, guy could have been out several times today. Only guy with a good innings under his belt is the newbie Fakhar and even then all he got was a 50 exactly.

Let them bat first where there's less pressure and see what they can do. Can't rely on other teams bottling the game like today, even though I'm proud of how well we bowled today we were excellent in that regard and it should have been an easy chase.
 
Anyone suggesting Pakistan should bat first vs. England does not understand that we have to shield our weak batting line. The only way we beat England is if we do EXACTLY what we have done vs. SAF and SL. It's one thing if we lose the toss and are put in. But if we win the toss and choose to bat first, changing a winning strategy, then we are toast. There is no total we can post batting first that England would not chase down. Same was true of India. Only chance we have is to bowl first and do exactly what we've done in the last 2 games!
 
A successful chase in the semi final would give lots of confidence to the team, especially if we are to face India in the final
 
The main issue with Pakistan batting first is we will never quite be sure what is a safe target. Our batsmen tend to think even 270 is a good score. That's why I do think bowling first is the ideal scenario. Restrict them to 260-260 at max. However if England get anything over 310 it will me impossible for Pakistan to chase it down.
 
Only chance we have is we miraculously restrict them to 200.

We will not chase anything above 240 against England

Problem is if England do bat first, the likely outcome will be them scoring 320 plus

Remember this is the same team that scored 444 against us
 
Sorry but lol,strong batting team will put up 300 and somehow I don't see PCT chasing that.
Better to defend,also it's not necessarily a winning strategy as PCT lost against India.
 
NauV said:
And there is no way Pakistan is chasing anything over 250 against a quality English bowling attack . .

The only chance Pakistan has in this game is batting first and hope that the pressure gets the the English line up . . Cuz even a decent English batting performance will propel them to 300 . . And we can't chase anything over 250 . .
Click to expand...

We did chashed 300+ on same ground against Eng not long ago. Without Sharjeel, only Rizwan added his bit. We got Fakhar now.
 
England have the ability to choke, regardless of how good this team is.

I'd still much rather bat first, hope we can get 280+ and then rely on our bowling to dent their chase.
 
We are pretty clueless when batting first. I can see England skittle us out for 190. Remember bowlers like Plunkett, Ball, Stokes and Wood are going to bang it in short and when we have no idea what a good score is we will then succumb.
 
England will be under pressure thats for sure. Cricket is a funny game.

Doesnt matter bat or bowl first only way we can put them under pressure is by attacking with the ball.

England will choke.
 
PakLFC said:
Our bowlers will test them more then they have been up until now. Batting second we will just collapse as always. England will not drop the catches Sri Lanka did letting us of the hook.
Click to expand...

Like last year or in UAE over the last few tours when they were cruising past 300 and the odd 444 against us? Our bowling CANNOT contain their batsmen, period!
 
I would prefer batting first, posting a 250+ total and letting England chase under pressure. Chasing wont be easy in such a high pressure game and they might just crumble under pressure.
 
Pakistan only hope is to bowl England out less then 250...Good bowling will be neutralized if they are chasing 250ish score, they will play sensibly and our bowlers will get desperate to take wickets, not best use of them...

On the other hand, batting first, England will be in attack mode, better chance for us to take wickets. We need to get 6/7 down by 35th over, this is do able with bowling first.
 
should bowl first. your bowlers did well in the last 2 games.. its an used wicket. pretty similar to the wicket where Pak played SA. just fill the team with spinners and choke England batsmen. then hope your batsmen will chase whatever England score.
 
I think it would be sage to bat first. Set a target, the team batting second will have so soak up incessant pressure, couple that with good bowling from Pakistan and we've got a game on our hands... If England Bats first, you can bet your bottom dollar- it will be over before you know it.

After the tournament discard: Hafeez, Azhar Ali, and give a warning to Imad to improve his batting or face the axe.
 
Chase!!! There won't be any target that this English team won't be able to chase. Plus we won't be able to score more than 270/280 anyway.
 
The last two occasions we've beaten England was by chasing.
 
Mag101 said:
I think it would be sage to bat first. Set a target, the team batting second will have so soak up incessant pressure, couple that with good bowling from Pakistan and we've got a game on our hands... If England Bats first, you can bet your bottom dollar- it will be over before you know it.

After the tournament discard: Hafeez, Azhar Ali, and give a warning to Imad to improve his batting or face the axe.
Click to expand...

The problem is this is not an Indian batting lineup, we have our 'accumulators' who on average cannot set a target of more than 260 on their good day...
 
waleed88 said:
The problem is this is not an Indian batting lineup, we have our 'accumulators' who on average cannot set a target of more than 260 on their good day...
Click to expand...

..Well the only way to improve is by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations and learning to adapt. Ignoring a problem is not conducive to a healthy mindset. Learn to bat first.. Many a time Pakistan has chosen the defensive option and have been found wanting. The cliche 'attack is the best form of defence', is nontheless true.
 
Mag101 said:
..Well the only way to improve is by putting yourself in uncomfortable situations and learning to adapt. Ignoring a problem is not conducive to a healthy mindset. Learn to bat first.. Many a time Pakistan has chosen the defensive option and have been found wanting. The cliche 'attack is the best form of defence', is nontheless true.
Click to expand...

The only way we can win is chasing, as we have seen until now...
 
Bat first.

Don't trust our batsmen to chase any total against England.

Used wicket and weather is good so back our strength which is bowling..
 
waleed88 said:
The only way we can win is chasing, as we have seen until now...
Click to expand...

...Pakistan should reverse the equation and catch England off guard. Throw in Haris... Demote Hafeez down the order, oust Azhar Ali, play one of Shahdab/Imad and bat first.. Be bold, be brave!
 
Have to bat first.

I would back our bowlers to defend 250 on this wicket rather then chase 250.
 
We should definitely chase, We have won our last 2 games through chasing and our bowling is quite capable of restricting England to a small total upfront, either way we should win.
 
I don't understand this logic about chasing...
It's a stupid premise that because we won two games chasing hence we should not bat first.

We chased against India and look how that went.

On used wicket it would be silly to bat second
 
Agree with a poster above, do it the old style.
Bat first...280
Get a few quick England wickets, slow the run rate down, hold em with spin in the middle, grab a few wkts and then the flourish at the end with reverse swing.
Simple.
 
Should bat first but watching previous matches i fear they will be all out for less than 200 and match will be over first half.
 
IMMY69 said:
Have to bat first.

I would back our bowlers to defend 250 on this wicket rather then chase 250.
Click to expand...

That's the most absurd thing in a pretty absurd thread.

You guys will have 80%+ chance to chase down 250.

And less than 5% chance of defending 250.

Where have you been past 10 years?

Anything less than 275 will be chased easily by either side.

Pakistan being fragile will find it tough to get more than 300, but below 275 run rate is so low it's easy for any side to get.
 
Batting first will be the dumbest decision of all-time.

Your 250-270-290 will not save you from England.

The only thing that can win is if you chase down England's score or pressure them early in their innings when they bat first.

If Pakistan have England 30/2 after 5, they will slow down, you can keep them down to below 280 and then the game is there for the taking.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
Batting first will be the dumbest decision of all-time.

Your 250-270-290 will not save you from England.

The only thing that can win is if you chase down England's score or pressure them early in their innings when they bat first.

If Pakistan have England 30/2 after 5, they will slow down, you can keep them down to below 280 and then the game is there for the taking.
Click to expand...

All wrong.

People need to realise in a semi we can never Chase 250.
 
I have supported the chase first strategy but only uptil now.

If they bat first, they will of course target 300+ but even if they lose wickets in the middle, their batting depth will still take them somewhere near that total. They way Pakistan has chased down in last two games despite Fakhar firing, we better not expect ourselves to be third time lucky.

In addition, you would like to put your stronger aspect (bowling) in action in the higher pressure (second) innings.

England batting has potential to choke and that can be better exploited if they are chasing.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
Batting first will be the dumbest decision of all-time.

Your 250-270-290 will not save you from England.

The only thing that can win is if you chase down England's score or pressure them early in their innings when they bat first.

If Pakistan have England 30/2 after 5, they will slow down, you can keep them down to below 280 and then the game is there for the taking.
Click to expand...

This England batting lineup does not slow down, and that is why they have been so brutal in batting out teams. All of their batsmen (with the exception of Root) come out all guns blazing, and if two of them click, game over for the opposition. Since they do not consolidate even when wickets tumble, the opposition captain is under constant pressure. The other day, Smith looked helpless even when England are 50 for 3.

In addition, we have to play to our strengths. We simply cannot chase anything beyond 250 under pressure, and we cannot restrict them to anything below that.
 
Mamoon said:
This England batting lineup does not slow down, and that is why they have been so brutal in batting out teams. All of their batsmen (with the exception of Root) come out all guns blazing, and if two of them click, game over for the opposition. Since they do not consolidate even when wickets tumble, the opposition captain is under constant pressure. The other day, Smith looked helpless even when England are 50 for 3.

In addition, we have to play to our strengths. We simply cannot chase anything beyond 250 under pressure, and we cannot restrict them to anything below that.
Click to expand...

There are countless high pressure games where we failed chasing.

It is so obvious we better not mess up if we win the toss.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
That's the most absurd thing in a pretty absurd thread.

You guys will have 80%+ chance to chase down 250.

And less than 5% chance of defending 250.

Where have you been past 10 years?

Anything less than 275 will be chased easily by either side.

Pakistan being fragile will find it tough to get more than 300, but below 275 run rate is so low it's easy for any side to get.
Click to expand...

These statistics and percentages do not apply to Pakistan. We are not "any" side. We are world renowned chokers and we crap our pants when it comes to chasing totals that are cakewalks for other teams.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
That's the most absurd thing in a pretty absurd thread.

You guys will have 80%+ chance to chase down 250.

And less than 5% chance of defending 250.

Where have you been past 10 years?

Anything less than 275 will be chased easily by either side.

Pakistan being fragile will find it tough to get more than 300, but below 275 run rate is so low it's easy for any side to get.
Click to expand...

I've been around for far longer then ten years.
Your post however tells me that you have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

It's a semi final, any side chasing would feel pressure let alone Pakistan who can fold for next to nothing chasing a next to nothing score.

Ten years?? Let's see.
2011 we lost to India in knock out game chasing 260 odd when 300 was a par score.
In 2015 World Cup we beat South Africa in do or die Match defending a sub par score.

Then in the quarter final we folded cheaply but still put up a fight against the host nation and eventual winners.

Weather is forecast to be sunny with temperature in the low or mid 20's. It's the same wicket we just played on socits not fresh. If you've watched ten years of cricket you'll know that these sorts of wickets tend to slow up during the course of 50 overs which makes it harder to score in the second innings and also brings our spinners into it.

If the conditions are as expected batting first is absolutely the right thing to do.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
There are countless high pressure games where we failed chasing.

It is so obvious we better not mess up if we win the toss.
Click to expand...

If we bowl first and the moment England cross 250, the heads of our players will drop, and we will collapse to 180 all out in response. Our only glimmer of hope is to bat first, limp to 300 and attack as hard as we can with the ball. Throw the ball in the bowlers' court, they are our relative strength.
 
Guys is it going to be a used pitch or a fresh pitch?
If it is a used one we might have to play Shadab and Imad.
 
Mamoon said:
If we bowl first and the moment England cross 250, the heads of our players will drop, and we will collapse to 180 all out in response. Our only glimmer of hope is to bat first, limp to 300 and attack as hard as we can with the ball. Throw the ball in the bowlers' court, they are our relative strength.
Click to expand...

i see that you have a crystal ball as well
 
Mamoon said:
If we bowl first and the moment England cross 250, the heads of our players will drop, and we will collapse to 180 all out in response. Our only glimmer of hope is to bat first, limp to 300 and attack as hard as we can with the ball. Throw the ball in the bowlers' court, they are our relative strength.
Click to expand...

Lol at limping to 300. have some reasonable expectations. I bet they can never score 300 on that used pitch, that too against England. 250 is somewhat reasonable. as this is an used pitch, Pak can still defend 250 against this overated England batting on dry and turning pitch.
 
Mag101 said:
...Pakistan should reverse the equation and catch England off guard. Throw in Haris... Demote Hafeez down the order, oust Azhar Ali, play one of Shahdab/Imad and bat first.. Be bold, be brave!
Click to expand...

Don't think there won't be any drastic changes... these names are kept so that any defeat means permanent ouster for them
 
IMMY69 said:
I've been around for far longer then ten years.
Your post however tells me that you have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

It's a semi final, any side chasing would feel pressure let alone Pakistan who can fold for next to nothing chasing a next to nothing score.

Ten years?? Let's see.
2011 we lost to India in knock out game chasing 260 odd when 300 was a par score.
In 2015 World Cup we beat South Africa in do or die Match defending a sub par score.

Then in the quarter final we folded cheaply but still put up a fight against the host nation and eventual winners.

Weather is forecast to be sunny with temperature in the low or mid 20's. It's the same wicket we just played on socits not fresh. If you've watched ten years of cricket you'll know that these sorts of wickets tend to slow up during the course of 50 overs which makes it harder to score in the second innings and also brings our spinners into it.

If the conditions are as expected batting first is absolutely the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

That era is gone now, teams are happy to chase down any total now...
 
thehub said:
Lol at limping to 300. have some reasonable expectations. I bet they can never score 300 on that used pitch, that too against England. 250 is somewhat reasonable. as this is an used pitch, Pak can still defend 250 against this overated England batting on dry and turning pitch.
Click to expand...

We can only score 300 by "limping", and we did it against the same opposition in the last ODI that we played on this venue. Yes, playing a dead rubber is not the same as playing a semifinal, but a total of 300 can be achieved.
 
Mamoon said:
If we bowl first and the moment England cross 250, the heads of our players will drop, and we will collapse to 180 all out in response. Our only glimmer of hope is to bat first, limp to 300 and attack as hard as we can with the ball. Throw the ball in the bowlers' court, they are our relative strength.
Click to expand...

another of the gems
 
Fact is Pakistan cannot win this match regardless how well we plan. But there is still some hope - hope that England can lose this match. The chances of that happening is with Pakistan bowling first.

English batting is so good that they may set their sights on 330-340 and may not alter plans even after losing a couple of early wickets. Then our spinners come on and on this used pitch apply their choke. And the more England tries to reach 330 they more mistakes they make and end up setting Pakistan a target of 246.

Which surely will be a breeze for us :15:
 
Batting first, means likelyhood of 1999 world cup final like performance. WHen the match was over before the 2nd innings even began. So bowling first is better for Pakistan.
 
cricketInsight said:
Fact is Pakistan cannot win this match regardless how well we plan. But there is still some hope - hope that England can lose this match. The chances of that happening is with Pakistan bowling first.

English batting is so good that they may set their sights on 330-340 and may not alter plans even after losing a couple of early wickets. Then our spinners come on and on this used pitch apply their choke. And the more England tries to reach 330 they more mistakes they make and end up setting Pakistan a target of 246.

Which surely will be a breeze for us :15:
Click to expand...

You mean like Sri Lanka did?
Do you think England are going to drop dollies? Is Sri Lanka's bowling better then England's?
 
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