Describe Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto for those who have not seen him

[Rana]

Ive always heard that he was the best natural leader pakistan has ever had. He had the gift of uniting people under him. Is it true?

Whould a leader like Bhutto, who doesnt make the supposed mistakes he made the thing that pakistan needs today?

 

[deviously~fading~away]

He was the best natural leader Pakistan ever had after Jinnah but was corrupted by the dark side within himself. And that ultimately was his downfall.

Great leaders know how to keep their dark side away, Bhutto didn't.

End of thread

 

[SIMBA]

I don't like him due to the fact him, Yaya Khan were instrumental in splitting Pakistan!

This very fact makes me hate him!

Pakistan needs Imran Khan who is ten times better then Bhutto.

 

[Pakhtoon_Rules]

i heard some nasty stories about him, also he was partly blamed for partition of east pakistan.

 

[Rana]

i heard some nasty stories about him, also he was partly blamed for partition of east pakistan.

care to elaborate?

 

[Mohsin]

He was an amazing speaker, and a natural born leader (you could argue, the only leader we had after Quaid-e-Azam(ra) )

Say what you may of his policies...but it could be argued that as a Pakistani, you were still proud to have HIM represent you around the world.

He also initiated Pakistan's nuclear journey

After his demise, you got 2 corrupt Governments of the Bhutto that people say nice things about now, just because she's dead…followed by the Ghaddari PPP Government we have before us.
I dunno if ZAB was accused of corruption but i wouldnt bet against the 3 most corrupt Government's in Pakistan's history being...BB Government #1....damn BB Government #2....and Ghaddar government #present

 

[cornered-tigers]

Ive always heard that he was the best natural leader pakistan has ever had. He had the gift of uniting people under him. Is it true?

Whould a leader like Bhutto, who doesnt make the supposed mistakes he made the thing that pakistan needs today?

He had one of the best memories. My father was an army Major in 1975, when Larkan was hit by one of the worst floods. Bhutto flew in his chopper. He met all the officials on duty there, came to my father and met him. Then he went on to meet the DC and police officers. When he was about to hop on the chopper to leave, he came to my father again and addressed my father with his last name and asked if these civil servants were co-operating with the army? and if they were not then let him know and gave him the visitng card. My father was astnoished to see that this guy meeting so many people could still rememebr poepl's names and could address then by their names,

 

[ITGuy]

Could he be described as the best leader after Jinnah ?

 

[Pakhtoon_Rules]

care to elaborate?

i have heard infact there is a book written by a lady as well( cant remember book name) that he was a v ayaash, sharab o shabab were his favt hobies, Also hungry for power and quite arrogant.

 

[suhaib]

allready many topics on this, he was an idiot who knew about indias plan to attack pakistan in 1965 but kept quite and in 1971 broke the country. not only did he destroy pakistan but gave us the worst family and party ever created.

 

[Mohsin]

i have heard infact there is a book written by a lady as well( cant remember book name) that he was a v ayaash, sharab o shabab were his favt hobies, Also hungry for power and quite arrogant.

I think he himself, often mentioned he was quite partial to a glass of something strong every so often

 

[GOAT]

Started up our nuclear program. For that alone he goes down as a good leader in my eyes.

Also have heard great things about his defiant speech to the UN. The man had some courage, the man had some faults.

 

[Mohsin]

Started up our nuclear program. For that alone he goes down as a good leader in my eyes.

Also have heard great things about his defiant speech to the UN. The man had some courage, the man had some faults.

[UTUBE]qYHUJBRRnc4[/UTUBE]

 

[AZ]

^ ruinous speech for Pakistan.

ShehryarK will give some good insight on ZAB.

for his many political overtures, he made quite a few catastrophic decisions too.

 

[Zechariah]

The guy who destroyed the Pakistani economy and gave us the kahota lab. Nothing else to remember about him.

 

[suhaib]

that speech highly isolated pakistan internationally at a critical time.

 

[iZaman]

The guy was an idiot/everything until 1971 Dhaka fall
Became sensible and gave something to Pakistan as the atomic bomb and that is his main contribution which to be honest is a great contribution although it does not erase his sins.

 

[emclub]

He was bald :rana

 

[shahrukh619]

allready many topics on this, he was an idiot who knew about indias plan to attack pakistan in 1965 but kept quite and in 1971 broke the country. not only did he destroy pakistan but gave us the worst family and party ever created.

Another stupid post. Blame the Yahya Khan for the Bangladesh-Pakistan conflict.

Wow our country really does need to spend more on Education..

 

[srh]

like Darth Vader?

 

[KB]

To this day, Zulfiqur Ali Bhutto evokes strong reactions from supporters and opponents alike. Even here amongst thoughtful forummers such as Wazeeri, Momo and SheryarK, there is much difference of opinion.

There is no doubt that during the 1970s he inspired many ordinary people. Political consciousness was deepened and the marginalised, such as peasants and labourers, were able to assert their rights. Countless people were inspired to vote with their conscience and not swayed purely by local influence.

Bhutto’s charisma must be located within the context of the sense of crisis that many Pakistanis felt at the time. This was because the Ayub Khan years, with its focus on a capitalist led modernisation, with its emphasis on ‘functional inequality’ and ‘trickle down’ theories, lead to a grossly unequal society, with deepening social fissures. And secondly, the breakup of Pakistan in 1971 damaged Pakistani self-esteem.

Stepping into the opening created by the above was Bhutto, whose recourse to socialist rhetoric (the fact that he was a key member of the Ayub Khan’s capitalist regime was quickly forgotten), was best exemplified with the call for “roti, kapra aur makaan.”

This was an inspiring message for the impoverished of Pakistan. Bhutto styled himself as the voice of the people.

He was perhaps less ideologically committed to socialism than many of his PPP colleagues, but was the obvious choice for leadership, owing to his powerful, flamboyant oratory and ability to convey the message in populist terms.

He therefore came to symbolise the aspirations of many, his personality traits interacting with the social realities of the time.

During his rule he was more adept with foreign affairs than the handling of domestic issues.

The 1972 Simla Summit was his high point, where from position of weakness he managed to negotiate what was described in Pakistan as a triumph. It was a great contrast with the Tashkent summit that damaged Ayub Khan. He also chose shrewdly the right time to recognise Bangladesh, without facing calls of a “sell-out”, which was reciprocated by Mujib in the dropping of criminal cases against 195 prisoners of war. He also emphasised and moved towards closer ties with China and the Islamic world, thereby helping to restore Pakistani self-esteem. (Closer diplomatic ties with the Arab world also facilitated inflow of Libyan and Saudi money which was crucial for the nuclear programme.)

Unfortunately, he was not so adroit on the domestic front. He perpetuated the tradition in Pakistani political culture of authoritarianism and the viewing of opposition as illegitimate. He could be ruthless with opposition. Measures such as the High Treason Act, Prevention of Anti-National Activities Ordinance and Press and Publications Ordinance, were also used to tame civil society and strangle dissent. His treatment of opposition dissent was arguably the most damaging aspect of his regime.

The Civil War in Balochistan also revealed that little was truly learned from the creation of Bangladesh. Political dissent was not treated as a political problem requiring a political solution based on the conception of pluralism, but rather as a law and order issue to be ruthlessly suppressed by an over-centralised state.

Unfortunately the PPP could also not transform itself from a popular movement to a political party. The PPP’s patronage politics, factional rivalries, which had less to do with ideology and more to do with personality, ensured that it remained institutionally weak and thus Pakistan remained susceptible to Military renewal in politics. The fact that the PPP came to rely more on opportunistic landlords, summed up the extent to which ideology was subservient to personality and patronage politics.

His explosive language in the context of Sindhi-Mohajir relations was also distinctly unhelpful to the unity of the country. And his politically expedient concessions to religious groups laid the foundations for their later potential legitimacy.

Many have also judged his economic policies as being a disaster for Pakistan, stunting growth.

However it is also fair to point out that strong vested interests and the exogenous impact to the economy from the oil shock undermined attempts at social justice.

Nevertheless the Bhutto years represent an opportunity missed. Despite his populist rhetoric and charismatic appeal, democracy was weakened and authoritarianism was perpetuated.

 

[Tapori]

About as Pakistani as any British Born Confused Desi

The chosen one, this BBCD will seek revenge for crimes against style, fashion, decorum, inter-ethnic relationships and social welfare provisions.

He's coming to get you; Freshies. :rana

 

[AZ]

About as Pakistani as any British Born Confused Desi

The chosen one, this BBCD will seek revenge for crimes against style, fashion, decorum, inter-ethnic relationships and social welfare provisions.

He's coming to get you; Freshies. :rana

can you elaborate on what exactly this has to do with ZAB?

 

[Tapori]

LOL - Had a related story in the next tab -Completely misread this thread as Bilawal.

Apologies.

-

ZAB - I have never seen such a polarization in Pakistan Political discourse as this man provides.

Many hate him.

Many love him.

KB - Good post

As much as Zia is blamed for the rise in right-wing extremism, could one argue ZAB should also shoulder blame, as Zia's extremist policy being a reaction to ZAB's own policies; I.e.: League of nations treatment of Germany giving rise to 1930's German extremism?

 

[AZ]

Bilawal is not even an actual BBCD.

complete wannabe.

 

[freaky]

I have never seen him but i saw a video of bhutto in united nation and he sounded like a sane leader but that was bad luck ,he didnt allow bengali leader to become pm..

He is responsible for 1971 war and separation of bangladesh which was beneficial to pakistan and india,bangladesh..Bangladeshis 30 milions bengali are illegally living in india..they have less land and weaker economy...meanwhile their current growth is about 6-7% but they are poor enough with resources

 

[Tapori]

complete wannabe.

Re: His Mum's Surrey mansion where the kids were raised?

 

[AZ]

they were raised in Dubai, my sisters were the classmates of the daughters.

 

[Tapori]

Really?

In that case I stand corrected.

-

 

[deviously~fading~away]

they were raised in Dubai, my sisters were the classmates of the daughters.

Which school?

 

[AZ]

Choueifat Dubai.

Bilawal was in Rashid School.

 

[ahsan88]

Top post KB.

 

[Tapori]

AZ; Genuine question then:

Does he, and his sisters, exemplify anything that makes them as it were "More Pakistani" than supposed "CD's" that are raised similarly outside of Pakistan?

- Where was ZAB raised and educated? How much did it influence his political thinking? Would he have been a Tariq Ali style leftist in his student days?

 

[AZ]

lol, hell no...seen more well-adjusted 'Pakistanied' BBCDs then these 3 cartoons.

to be fair they had a pretty weird upbringing, were always heavily guarded even at school.

 

[Tapori]

LOL - Cartoons? Harsh!

That must be hell as a teenager with those freedoms snatched.

I've done done enough to divert the thread, Apologies.

Carry on as you were, PP'ers...

 

[Prince_Pathan]

can you elaborate on what exactly this has to do with ZAB?

thanks alot man... almost choked on my crisps reading this


gd post kb

 

[NJamal]

ZAB is overrated as a leader. He had a plan but due to his arrogance and stubbornness cost Pakistan more than gaining. Morally also he was not a good human being. But we have to give him credit for making Pakistan a nuclear state. It is wrong to compare him to Quaid-e-Azam. He was no way near the Quaid.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

care to elaborate?

Rana let's not live in the past.


There is a strong possibility of ZAB generation getting wiped off from Planet Earth. All Hopes were on Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto junior His only grandson out of his both Sons.


This is Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto junior.

 

[JoniInsafian]

Rana let's not live in the past.


There is a strong possibility of ZAB generation getting wiped off from Planet Earth. All Hopes were on Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto junior His only grandson out of his both Sons.


This is Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto junior.

When child is fed with Haram money then such things will happen.......

Only male heir of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto dances for Gor-as and who knows what more.... Wish his grand-father is witnessing it from his grave....

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

When child is fed with Haram money then such things will happen.......

Only male heir of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto dances for Gor-as and who knows what more.... Wish his grand-father is witnessing it from his grave....

God knows better whether Bhutto or his daughter did financial Corruption. There are mere allegations only.


I remember that on BB's Martyrdom I first saw Zulfiqar jnr and He was lean, muscular, handsome, good looking grandson we all witnessed and than this happened.


May be family tradegies affected his hormones too hence this transformation.


I don't wish this happens with anyone.


Bhutto family suffered alot. Only Nusrat died natural death that too after prolonged illness of 25 years where She lost her senses too and 3 of her children died un-natural death. Only Sanam remains and she is completely out of Limelight.

 

[KB]

Reading this thread afresh, and having now read Oskar Verkaaik’s excellent work on the MQM, there is one more point that can be made, and that is the impact of Bhutto on the the idea of Pakistan itself. The Muslim League in the 1940s propagated an idea of Pakistan that did not have strong geographic moorings. Unity was to be based not so much on geography but simply on belonging to a shared religion. In addition, the Pakistan movement was spearheaded by Muslim modernists, who held the whip hand in the early years of Pakistan. Modernists Muslims have sought, since the nineteenth century, to recover the ‘sprit of Islam’ freed from ‘blind’ imitation of medieval authorities. ‘Authentic’ Islam for them, is recovered through a fresh reading of Islam’s foundational texts, especially the Qur’an, unmediated by the ulama. Such leaders had always shown an unease with aspects of shrine based Islam which seemed to conflict with their own perception of a rational, this worldly Islam. Yet, they had often turned to pirs to generate popular support, especially to offset opposition from the ulama - this was true of Jinnah in the 1940s as it was of Ayub Khan in the 1950s. 


With the coming of Zulfiqur Ali Bhutto, a more territorial notion of Pakistan emerged, where there was an effort to define a Pakistani identity as being one fundamentally rooted in its geography and its unique history. This was a vision of Pakistan as a nation grounded in historic and regional cultures. Concomitant with this the Bhuttos had worshiped regularly at the shrine of Lal Shabaz Qalandar, in Sehwan Sharif. Folk culture was given far more attention, than hitherto had been the case by elite Pakistani leadership.

Of course such a vision whilst enthusiastically embraced by many also unsettled the Muhajirs of Sindh, who as migrants could be conceived as a people without a deep attachment to the current land of Pakistan. There is no doubt that this modified meaning of what Pakistan represented contributed partly to the rise of the MQM movement.

But it could be argued that whilst the idea of Pakistan as an ideological state was not wholly displaced, more room was created for a geographic idea of Pakistan and an identity that embraced the history of the region.

 

[saeedhk]

A visionary leader.

 

[Markhor]

As capable of eloquent populism as divisive demagoguery.