Did Hitler escape to South America after World War 2 rather than die in the bunker?

[Savak]

It is very well documented that a lot of Nazi's especially those accused of the most brutal war crimes with the help of Plastic Surgery, Sympathizers in Europe and South America escaped to South America especially to Argentina.

The likes of Adolf Eichmann was captured in Argentina by the Mossad in 1961. The Mossad was on the hunt for Josef Mengele in South America as well. They executed Herbert Cukar in 1965. The likes of Eric Prietke, Klaus Barbie were extradited from South America to Germany as well and many others were also spotted in South America.

I have read the book Grey Wolf and even watched the documentary online which states that Hitler did not actually die in Germany in 1945 but actually escape to Argentina. However his health had already severely declined by 1945 suffering from full blown Parkinsons which severely incapacitated his ability to lead and he was a shadow of himself in the remaining years of his life till he died of natural causes in 1962. Apparently his wife Eva Braun deserted him.

If you think logically, it doesn't make sense for someone who wrecked so much devestation to the world to just simply take his life in the end, he certainly had numerous resources to escape at the end of the war. There was no DNA examination of his corpse and the skull that the Russians have upon examination showed no proof it belonged to Hitler. We perhaps will never know the real truth but surely if the Israeli's had the slightest suspicion, there was no way on Earth that they would not have made full blown efforts to capture him.

 

[sweep_shot]

I highly doubt.

This is just a baseless conspiracy theory.

I believe in certain conspiracy theories but I think this one is not correct.

 

[Robert]

He shot and poisoned himself and his body was burned beyond recognition after he died. That is all.

 

[Hitman]

Don't understand why, but conspiracy theories have always entertained me. Not that I believe in them, but it's fascinating learning their side of the story, on what they believe. Regarding the death of Hitler, there has been countless conspiracy theories since he apparently died.

Just looked over the book you mentioned in Amazon India. Will certainly buy it.

 

[Savak]

He shot and poisoned himself and his body was burned beyond recognition after he died. That is all.

Why should we blindly believe that narrative without undeniable proof?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have no reason to believe that he didn't die in his bunker, but had no idea that no DNA analysis of his corpse was done. So the conspiracy theorists may well be right. I have an open mind on it until I get more conclusive proof either way.

 

[Slog]

It wouldn’t be outside the realms of possibility.

Lot of nazis escaped to Argentina. There’s literally nazi settlements to this day who only intermarry

 

[Finisher]

He shot and poisoned himself and his body was burned beyond recognition after he died. That is all.

Did he burn his own body?

 

[PetroDollars]

Lots of conspiracy theories make the rounds, but this one has alot of substance to it, theres quite abit of evidence here, he may have gone to scotland and then argentina.

 

[Mamoon]

It wouldn’t be outside the realms of possibility.

Lot of nazis escaped to Argentina. There’s literally nazi settlements to this day who only intermarry

If he did he must have died almost immediately. The most notorious man in the world cannot stay undercover for years or decades.

CIA and other intelligence services would have found him by the 60s if not 50s, and they would have no reason to hide him.

This is arguably the most far-fetched conspiracy theory out there.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How do we know that the official version isn't the conspiracy theory?

 

[Savak]

If he did he must have died almost immediately. The most notorious man in the world cannot stay undercover for years or decades.

CIA and other intelligence services would have found him by the 60s if not 50s, and they would have no reason to hide him.

This is arguably the most far-fetched conspiracy theory out there.

So many Nazis escaped to South America. Someone like Hitler escaping was not an impossibility. But his health was so bad at the end of the war that he was a shell of himself and completely ineffective. He remained very well protected and guarded by the most loyal Nazis towards the very end. The Mossad would have done everything to bring him to Israel.

 

[Savak]

Lots of conspiracy theories make the rounds, but this one has alot of substance to it, theres quite abit of evidence here, he may have gone to scotland and then argentina.

Apparently he made his way to Argentina via Uboat. Argentina was a hot bed for the vast majority of Nazis after the second world war. The German population in Argentina is close to 4 million today

 

[rockyboy2018]

The way sometimes I am racially discriminated by Germans in Germany I feel like people die but ideology still lives on. Anyways, Must have been some guy if it took half the world to defeat him.

I watched one of the documentaries on Netflix that showed he even survived a bomb blast on the same spot where he was having a meeting with his colleagues. I wonder how legit that incident was?

 

[Savak]

The way sometimes I am racially discriminated by Germans in Germany I feel like people die but ideology still lives on. Anyways, Must have been some guy if it took half the world to defeat him.

I watched one of the documentaries on Netflix that showed he even survived a bomb blast on the same spot where he was having a meeting with his colleagues. I wonder how legit that incident was?

Valkyrie. Tom Cruise acted as the Col Stauffenberg. I personally enjoyed the movie. I am surprised Hollywood has not done a full fledged movie on Hitler from the very beginning to the end. Heck Netflix could develop a tv series on the third reich just like they show the crown

 

[Savak]

The way the entire German nation bought into Hitler's hate and happily agreed to persecute everyone they felt was subhuman. It's almost like they were delighted at having been allowed a free hand by their leader and authorities.

There are so many right wing parties in different European countries. God forbid, if they ever come to power by a miracle, if they get a chance in power, will the Nazi War crimes completely pale in comparison

 

[Gilly]

The way the entire German nation bought into Hitler's hate and happily agreed to persecute everyone they felt was subhuman. It's almost like they were delighted at having been allowed a free hand by their leader and authorities.

There are so many right wing parties in different European countries. God forbid, if they ever come to power by a miracle, if they get a chance in power, will the Nazi War crimes completely pale in comparison

Do you think they would be as bad as ISIS.

 

[Kroll]

The viewpoint that Hitler escaped to Argentina are regarded by historians and scientific experts as disproven fringe theories.

Quite recently, a French forensic pathologist confirmed dental remains recovered from a skull in 1946 were definitely Hitler's teeth and proved beyond doubt that he died at Berlin in 1945.

 

[Savak]

The viewpoint that Hitler escaped to Argentina are regarded by historians and scientific experts as disproven fringe theories.

Quite recently, a French forensic pathologist confirmed dental remains recovered from a skull in 1946 were definitely Hitler's teeth and proved beyond doubt that he died at Berlin in 1945.

Strange because the investigators who examined Hitler's skull in Russia in 2009 concluded there was no proof it belonged to Hitler

 

[Kroll]

Strange because the investigators who examined Hitler's skull in Russia in 2009 concluded there was no proof it belonged to Hitler

Yes that was on the skull. However, jawbone fragments and two dental bridges were also examined and a French team concluded the teeth were definitely Hitler's about three years ago.

 

[Savak]

Yes that was on the skull. However, jawbone fragments and two dental bridges were also examined and a French team concluded the teeth were definitely Hitler's about three years ago.

I think it has to be true that he did die in the bunker. Because if Hitler was alive, there was no way it would have remained a secret forever.

 

[PetroDollars]

If he did he must have died almost immediately. The most notorious man in the world cannot stay undercover for years or decades.

CIA and other intelligence services would have found him by the 60s if not 50s, and they would have no reason to hide him.

This is arguably the most far-fetched conspiracy theory out there.

Considering CIA was created by nazis escaped from Germany to USa after the war, they would have every reason to hide him.

 

[Technics 1210]

Who says Hitler was found in a bunker and his body was burned? The Russians? Hmmmmm.

 

[Rana]

Adolf ‘ego maniac’ Hitler could not go into hiding. It’s not what the Fuhrer stood for.

Live out the rest of his weak old life doing what? He knew he was a dead man anyways. I believe he committed suicide

 

[Savak]

Adolf ‘ego maniac’ Hitler could not go into hiding. It’s not what the Fuhrer stood for.

Live out the rest of his weak old life doing what? He knew he was a dead man anyways. I believe he committed suicide

If you read the book and watch the film Grey Wolf, the author states that the fanatical Nazi supporters especially Martin Borreman used Hitler for their own personal self interests, deep down they regarded him as an old dying **** and in the final 2-3 years of his remaining life, he was completely depressed over his loss of influence, appeal and being confined to a remote lodge, bed left alone to die. Even if he survived after 1945, his remaining existence was purposeless.

 

[PetroDollars]

Adolf ‘ego maniac’ Hitler could not go into hiding. It’s not what the Fuhrer stood for.

Live out the rest of his weak old life doing what? He knew he was a dead man anyways. I believe he committed suicide

Doing what????

influencing matters behind the scene and keeping the nazis powerful - After the WW2, nazi went over to the USA, took over wall street, created americas 2 most influencial agencies, CIA and NASA - someone must have been directing the scenes.

 

[Dios]

If he did he must have died almost immediately. The most notorious man in the world cannot stay undercover for years or decades.

CIA and other intelligence services would have found him by the 60s if not 50s, and they would have no reason to hide him.

This is arguably the most far-fetched conspiracy theory out there.

You do know that the CIA actively facilitated the immigration of Nazis to the US as a means of countering communism?

 

[Slog]

Do you think they would be as bad as ISIS.

Is ISIS as bad as What Nazis did?

 

[Rana]

If you read the book and watch the film Grey Wolf, the author states that the fanatical Nazi supporters especially Martin Borreman used Hitler for their own personal self interests, deep down they regarded him as an old dying **** and in the final 2-3 years of his remaining life, he was completely depressed over his loss of influence, appeal and being confined to a remote lodge, bed left alone to die. Even if he survived after 1945, his remaining existence was purposeless.

Exactly. There was nothing left to live for and Hitler was not going to be brutalised, crucified by the monstrous Russian soldiers who would have made an example of him had they caught him in the Bunker.

We definitely need more facts rather than speculation to go by, but without a doubt the senior Nazi officials knew that the war was over and Hitler/gestapo had been pinned into a corner from which there was no return. Hitler died a cowards death one way or the other.

 

[Savak]

You do know that the CIA actively facilitated the immigration of Nazis to the US as a means of countering communism?

German Scientists and Engineers were in massive demand by the American's. Apparently a lot of Nazi Germany scientists had a massive role to play in America going to space and keeping up the USSR military technology

 

[DeadBall]

Is ISIS as bad as What Nazis did?

All I know is that I'm just glad that Gilly is back to being Gilly. Those were confusing times. Choti choti khushiyan.

 

[Rana]

Doing what????

influencing matters behind the scene and keeping the nazis powerful - After the WW2, nazi went over to the USA, took over wall street, created americas 2 most influencial agencies, CIA and NASA - someone must have been directing the scenes.

Brother, the Nazi regime and the hysteria to die for Germany came to an end with the disappearance/demise of Adolf Hitler in 1945. Read about the Nuremberg Trials if you ever get time and have interest in this subject. Besides the Nazi generals and top ranking officers who changed their pro Nazi narrative, many of them were prepared to commit suicide with the help of cyanide capsules. There was no concept of retreat in the minds of these officers, they were going to die with the fuhrer, and so many of them did.

For those who escaped to Argentina/South America , it was not because of a planned retreat and to rise once again. They were all their to simply spend out the rest of their lives remaining in anonymity.

 

[Savak]

Brother, the Nazi regime and the hysteria to die for Germany came to an end with the disappearance/demise of Adolf Hitler in 1945. Read about the Nuremberg Trials if you ever get time and have interest in this subject. Besides the Nazi generals and top ranking officers who changed their pro Nazi narrative, many of them were prepared to commit suicide with the help of cyanide capsules. There was no concept of retreat in the minds of these officers, they were going to die with the fuhrer, and so many of them did.

For those who escaped to Argentina/South America , it was not because of a planned retreat and to rise once again. They were all their to simply spend out the rest of their lives remaining in anonymity.

To those who ran away to South America, my question is that if they genuinely believed in their cause, the fact they were doing nothing wrong, why did they run away then? You only run away when you know you have done something wrong

 

[Rana]

To those who ran away to South America, my question is that if they genuinely believed in their cause, the fact they were doing nothing wrong, why did they run away then? You only run away when you know you have done something wrong

Joseph Gobels, “The butcher of auschwitz” is what they call him. It is said that he was a psychopathic Nazi Doctor who was allowed to conduct in humane experiments on Jewish women and children in the concentration camp.

His son was in contact with him and tracked him down in Argentina and confronted him about the atrocities he is said to have committed. Goebels denied it naturally and blamed it all on propaganda. One thing that we can learn from history is that it is indeed written by the winners. So truth be told, God knows what hideous crimes were committed and by who. However running away is indeed a clear sign of guilt.

Why did Henrich Himmler, the most ruthless leader of the most feared police in history tried to evade captivity and disguise himself out of the country only to be caught by the British soldiers? These men are going to have to answer in the court of God.

 

[Savak]

Joseph Gobels, “The butcher of auschwitz” is what they call him. It is said that he was a psychopathic Nazi Doctor who was allowed to conduct in humane experiments on Jewish women and children in the concentration camp.

His son was in contact with him and tracked him down in Argentina and confronted him about the atrocities he is said to have committed. Goebels denied it naturally and blamed it all on propaganda. One thing that we can learn from history is that it is indeed written by the winners. So truth be told, God knows what hideous crimes were committed and by who. However running away is indeed a clear sign of guilt.

Why did Henrich Himmler, the most ruthless leader of the most feared police in history tried to evade captivity and disguise himself out of the country only to be caught by the British soldiers? These men are going to have to answer in the court of God.

Josef Mengele. I get a little bit ****** of by the Jews, yes 6 million Jews died but a total of 60 million people died in WW2, why does no one talk about the remaining 54 million people? It wasn't just the Jews who were persecuted in the concentration camps, there were many local Poles, Slavs, Gypsies, Mentally infirm, ******** people, black people, transvestites, old, frail, sick people

 

[Robert]

Why should we blindly believe that narrative without undeniable proof?

Occam’s Razor. Because it’s more credible that the narrative that the world’s most wanted man escaped to Argentina and was never captured. Think about it. Someone would have grassed him up.

I know this place loves its conspiracies, but the simple explanation is usually the correct one.

 

[Robert]

Did he burn his own body?

No, the SS did.

 

[Robert]

The way the entire German nation bought into Hitler's hate and happily agreed to persecute everyone they felt was subhuman. It's almost like they were delighted at having been allowed a free hand by their leader and authorities.

There are so many right wing parties in different European countries. God forbid, if they ever come to power by a miracle, if they get a chance in power, will the Nazi War crimes completely pale in comparison

The conditions aren’t right. Germany was forced to make crippling payments for WW1. Then the Wall St Crash hit. Their currency collapsed and people starved. Add to this the developments in German philosophy of a few decades earlier - the superman doctrine. That all allowed the Nazis to rise.

Today, Europe is well fed and prosperous. There are disturbing echoes of the thirties and the minorities will suffer more racism. But the economy is healthy so there will be no Fourth Reich.

 

[Robert]

German Scientists and Engineers were in massive demand by the American's. Apparently a lot of Nazi Germany scientists had a massive role to play in America going to space and keeping up the USSR military technology

“Our Germans are better than their Germans” to quote the marvellous movie The Right Stuff.

 

[AdamM97]

Nope. Hitler is currently chilling with Tupac in Malaysia.

 

[AdamM97]

The way the entire German nation bought into Hitler's hate and happily agreed to persecute everyone they felt was subhuman. It's almost like they were delighted at having been allowed a free hand by their leader and authorities.

There are so many right wing parties in different European countries. God forbid, if they ever come to power by a miracle, if they get a chance in power, will the Nazi War crimes completely pale in comparison

Hitler rose to power because the Germans believed that they were treated unfairly in the Treaty of Versailles. There is some truth to it, the French forced the Germans to pay a hefty amount of money as punishment, and the French held grudges against Germany for their invasion of France in 1870-1871. The allied powers were completely biased, and had they treated Germany fairly, Hitler wouldn’t rise to prominence.

Also, most Germans believed in the back-in-the-stab myth, and Germany’s experiment with democracy during the Weimar Republic was a complete failure.

Most Germans weren’t hate-filled humans, they just longed for a leader that could avenge the French, the British and the Americans and bring back Germany to its former glory under Otto Von Bismarck.

 

[AdamM97]

Hitler rose to power because the Germans believed that they were treated unfairly in the Treaty of Versailles. There is some truth to it, the French forced the Germans to pay a hefty amount of money as punishment, and the French held grudges against Germany for their invasion of France in 1870-1871. The allied powers were completely biased, and had they treated Germany fairly, Hitler wouldn’t rise to prominence.

Also, most Germans believed in the back-in-the-stab myth , and Germany’s experiment with democracy during the Weimar Republic was a complete failure.

Most Germans weren’t hate-filled humans, they just longed for a leader that could avenge the French, the British and the Americans and bring back Germany to its former glory under Otto Von Bismarck.

Stab-in-the-back myth**

 

[Technics 1210]

The conditions aren’t right. Germany was forced to make crippling payments for WW1. Then the Wall St Crash hit. Their currency collapsed and people starved. Add to this the developments in German philosophy of a few decades earlier - the superman doctrine. That all allowed the Nazis to rise.

Today, Europe is well fed and prosperous. There are disturbing echoes of the thirties and the minorities will suffer more racism. But the economy is healthy so there will be no Fourth Reich.

Respectfully you are mistaken (second para). Youth unemployment is at some of the world's highest levels in the EU; Spain, Portugal, and Italy in particular.

As a result we are already witnessing the rise of right wing politics in Europe.

Youth unemployment means the future the generation, and if the future generation aint feeling it, then history will repeat itself.

Only this time it's capitalism to blame for austerity.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Occam’s Razor. Because it’s more credible that the narrative that the world’s most wanted man escaped to Argentina and was never captured. Think about it. Someone would have grassed him up.

I know this place loves its conspiracies, but the simple explanation is usually the correct one.

Argentina is a safe place for Nazis, many of the top commanders safely arrived. Its very possible Hitler was one of them or it's hard to say why Hitler wouldn't be there with them?

So you want us to believe the version the western history books put out without any evidence?

Here is a simple question which will show what you believe.

Who financed the Nazi regime?

 

[miandadrules]

Argentina is a safe place for Nazis, many of the top commanders safely arrived. Its very possible Hitler was one of them or it's hard to say why Hitler wouldn't be there with them?

So you want us to believe the version the western history books put out without any evidence?

Here is a simple question which will show what you believe.

Who financed the Nazi regime?

You follow the Islamic narrative without proof. Why the double standard?

 

[Technics 1210]

Argentina is a safe place for Nazis, many of the top commanders safely arrived. Its very possible Hitler was one of them or it's hard to say why Hitler wouldn't be there with them?

So you want us to believe the version the western history books put out without any evidence?

Here is a simple question which will show what you believe.

Who financed the Nazi regime?

BRAUN.

Check the Nazi out, Leading brand in the USA.

If USA was a safe haven for Nazis, then South America doesn't hold a candle.

 

[Robert]

Respectfully you are mistaken (second para). Youth unemployment is at some of the world's highest levels in the EU; Spain, Portugal, and Italy in particular.

As a result we are already witnessing the rise of right wing politics in Europe.

Youth unemployment means the future the generation, and if the future generation aint feeling it, then history will repeat itself.

Only this time it's capitalism to blame for austerity.

The bank bailout and subsequent austerity measures you deride prevented another 1929. History won’t repeat itself. There is no comparison between the current European economy and that of Weimar Germany.

There will, however, be a rise in racism as the press oligarchs convince people to look the wrong way.

 

[Robert]

Argentina is a safe place for Nazis, many of the top commanders safely arrived. Its very possible Hitler was one of them or it's hard to say why Hitler wouldn't be there with them?

So you want us to believe the version the western history books put out without any evidence?

Here is a simple question which will show what you believe.

Who financed the Nazi regime?

There were some US corporations such as IBM who traded extensively with Nazi Germany openly in the 1930s. Some corporations may have traded clandestinely through neutral countries after 1941.

It’s no more possible that Hitler moved to Argentina than Elvis Presley or Jimmy Hoffa did. If there is no evidence whatsoever for an hypothesis, it’s not worth discussing.

 

[Technics 1210]

The bank bailout and subsequent austerity measures you deride prevented another 1929. History won’t repeat itself. There is no comparison between the current European economy and that of Weimar Germany.

There will, however, be a rise in racism as the press oligarchs convince people to look the wrong way.

History is repeating itself. Austerity has been going on since 2008 bailout. That bailout by the way was for the banks, not the common man. It is no coincidence that the rise of right wing groups in Europe coincides with austerity post 2008. So much so the EU wasn't really a talking point in the UK during pre boom 2008 years!

There is a comparison between Wiemar Germany and modern EU, more and more people are penniless in the EU today. Speak to the youth. Why does Eu have one of the highest rates of youth unemployment in the world? What happened to this single biggest economic bloc? It's clearly not working.

It's about money in the pocket. EU nationals flocked to UK for work because of the strong GBP. Wiemar Germany voted for Hitler because they had no money. 1929? Mate, we are in a WORSE position than 1929.

Until you accept the colleraltion instead of hoping there is nothing wrong with our capitalist system, you will never understand why Hitler came into power, or why austerity always, and certainly, leads to the rise of fascism and rightwing ideologies. This is precisly why victories from Trump, Brexit, and Boris elude you.

It's people like you who are looking the wrong way friend. Please please please stop blaming the Russians for once.

 

[Technics 1210]

It’s no more possible that Hitler moved to Argentina than Elvis Presley or Jimmy Hoffa did. If there is no evidence whatsoever for an hypothesis, it’s not worth discussing.

There is evidence, from none other than the FBI.

Official US government archive:

https://vault.fbi.gov/adolf-hitler

 

[Robert]

History is repeating itself. Austerity has been going on since 2008 bailout. That bailout by the way was for the banks, not the common man. It is no coincidence that the rise of right wing groups in Europe coincides with austerity post 2008. So much so the EU wasn't really a talking point in the UK during pre boom 2008 years!

There is a comparison between Wiemar Germany and modern EU, more and more people are penniless in the EU today. Speak to the youth. Why does Eu have one of the highest rates of youth unemployment in the world? What happened to this single biggest economic bloc? It's clearly not working.

It's about money in the pocket. EU nationals flocked to UK for work because of the strong GBP. Wiemar Germany voted for Hitler because they had no money. 1929? Mate, we are in a WORSE position than 1929.

Until you accept the colleraltion instead of hoping there is nothing wrong with our capitalist system, you will never understand why Hitler came into power, or why austerity always, and certainly, leads to the rise of fascism and rightwing ideologies. This is precisly why victories from Trump, Brexit, and Boris elude you.

It's people like you who are looking the wrong way friend. Please please please stop blaming the Russians for once.

When did I mention the Russians on this thread?

If you think we are worse off the 1929 I suggest you have never experienced poverty. Neither have I, but my old Dad and Mum did. Not knowing where the next meal was coming from, no heat on in winter, shoes worn through, clothes full of holes. Have a read of Orwell - Keep the Apidistra Flying, and Down and out in Paris and London for a feel of what the thirties were like.

Weimer Germany had 1000% inflation, no food in the shops, no jobs, tens of millions desperate for any work at all, mass strikes by those employed crippling production, outbreaks of street violence between hard left and hard right. That was before 1929 hit and then it got even worse. Life is nowhere, nowhere, nowhere near as hard for ordinary people now, because of the bank bailout which prevented economic collapse. People just don't get this, they cannot comprehend it because Western life is so soft and so easy compared to that which our grandparents faced.

And I already saids that the relatively mild belt-tightening of the last decade has allowed the oligarchs to make people look the wrong way and blame immigrants and Muslims, hence right wing / nationalist / xenophobic enterprises such as Brexit, Trump and Johnson. But there isn't going to be another totalitarian takeover in the West just yet - people are still far too well fed.

As for UK, wait until the hardship kicks in next year when the EU treaties erapse. Then we could go one of two ways. The Tories might tighten their control, subverting the unwritten constitution, reducing the powers of the courts to stop them, abolishing the BBC and dissenting vioices. Or people might blame the Tories and turn back to Labour and Liberals. I hope for the latter course.

 

[Technics 1210]

When did I mention the Russians on this thread?

If you think we are worse off the 1929 I suggest you have never experienced poverty. Neither have I, but my old Dad and Mum did. Not knowing where the next meal was coming from, no heat on in winter, shoes worn through, clothes full of holes. Have a read of Orwell - Keep the Apidistra Flying, and Down and out in Paris and London for a feel of what the thirties were like.

Weimer Germany had 1000% inflation, no food in the shops, no jobs, tens of millions desperate for any work at all, mass strikes by those employed crippling production, outbreaks of street violence between hard left and hard right. That was before 1929 hit and then it got even worse. Life is nowhere, nowhere, nowhere near as hard for ordinary people now, because of the bank bailout which prevented economic collapse. People just don't get this, they cannot comprehend it because Western life is so soft and so easy compared to that which our grandparents faced.

And I already saids that the relatively mild belt-tightening of the last decade has allowed the oligarchs to make people look the wrong way and blame immigrants and Muslims, hence right wing / nationalist / xenophobic enterprises such as Brexit, Trump and Johnson. But there isn't going to be another totalitarian takeover in the West just yet - people are still far too well fed.

As for UK, wait until the hardship kicks in next year when the EU treaties erapse. Then we could go one of two ways. The Tories might tighten their control, subverting the unwritten constitution, reducing the powers of the courts to stop them, abolishing the BBC and dissenting vioices. Or people might blame the Tories and turn back to Labour and Liberals. I hope for the latter course.

We are worse off than 1929 because one more shock to the system and the entire financial system collapses on leveraged debt. This was not the case in 1929. You could argue there was a bigger social impact in 1929, but mortgages, credit cards, loans etc were no where near the levels they are today. Manufacturing pulled the USA out of 1929 depression, but where is the manufacturing base in the UK? We surrendered it!

1929 also ushered in the Glass-Seagal act, which separates investment banking from personal banking. Meaning banks could not use saver's cash to fund their big bets. This act was repealed by Clinton, only to be followed by the Dot.Com crash, and 2008.

No matter how much you claim Brexit, Trump, etc are xenophobic acts, they are not. They are the result of people being ignored. People who lost their jobs, family, and homes; looking to blame someone. These very people have no idea where their next meal is coming from. The Politicians ignored them, they responded with Brexit/Trump etc.

The bank bailout did not prevent an economic collapse; it merely delayed it. Just look at our interest rates since the crash; the BoE cannot raise rates any further because it will sink the UK into debt. You think we're better off than 1929? In 1929 there were options, now, there are none; there are no more bullets in the gun when the next crash happens.

 

[Robert]

We are worse off than 1929 because one more shock to the system and the entire financial system collapses on leveraged debt. This was not the case in 1929. You could argue there was a bigger social impact in 1929, but mortgages, credit cards, loans etc were no where near the levels they are today. Manufacturing pulled the USA out of 1929 depression, but where is the manufacturing base in the UK? We surrendered it!

1929 also ushered in the Glass-Seagal act, which separates investment banking from personal banking. Meaning banks could not use saver's cash to fund their big bets. This act was repealed by Clinton, only to be followed by the Dot.Com crash, and 2008.

No matter how much you claim Brexit, Trump, etc are xenophobic acts, they are not. They are the result of people being ignored. People who lost their jobs, family, and homes; looking to blame someone. These very people have no idea where their next meal is coming from. The Politicians ignored them, they responded with Brexit/Trump etc.

The bank bailout did not prevent an economic collapse; it merely delayed it. Just look at our interest rates since the crash; the BoE cannot raise rates any further because it will sink the UK into debt. You think we're better off than 1929? In 1929 there were options, now, there are none; there are no more bullets in the gun when the next crash happens.

The causes of 1929 were broadly similar to those of 2008. Excessive speculation, leveraged debt and too much consumer credit.

WW2 got the US out of the Great Depression. They were left with huge debt in 1945 but a massive manufacturing base due to the wartime economy and GDP surplus. Same with the UK though there were other factors such as loss of Empire.

There was no 1929-style run in the banks due to Mr Brown’s bailout scheme, which was copied by the G20 and prevented another Great Depression.

Look me in the face and tell me that Brexit was not influenced by racism, xenophobia and English exceptionalism after that Farage poster of some imaginary army of Muslims at our gate. That was naked racism.

Yes it was also a protest vote against austerity, but the EU was not even a consideration in most people’s minds in 2014. So how did it become an issue in just two years? Who stands to benefit from it?

 

[Technics 1210]

The causes of 1929 were broadly similar to those of 2008. Excessive speculation, leveraged debt and too much consumer credit.

WW2 got the US out of the Great Depression. They were left with huge debt in 1945 but a massive manufacturing base due to the wartime economy and GDP surplus. Same with the UK though there were other factors such as loss of Empire.

There was no 1929-style run in the banks due to Mr Brown’s bailout scheme, which was copied by the G20 and prevented another Great Depression.

Look me in the face and tell me that Brexit was not influenced by racism, xenophobia and English exceptionalism after that Farage poster of some imaginary army of Muslims at our gate. That was naked racism.

Yes it was also a protest vote against austerity, but the EU was not even a consideration in most people’s minds in 2014. So how did it become an issue in just two years? Who stands to benefit from it?

No run on the banks in 2008? Northern Rock, Bear Sterns, Icelandic banks to name a few in 2008. I dont know which part of history you are reading but you have it all wrong with respect to 29.

I am looking at you in the face right now and saying Brexit is a symptom and austerity is the cause.

You won't learn from history and instead blame the media. The fact Brexit was a mere myth before 2008 should give you an idea of what really went wrong. The EU referendum wasn't even a pipe dream. It all kicked off in 2010, not a 2 year time frame. Even if I grant you this notion then are you trying to tell me people suddenly decided to turn racist in 2 years and voted for Brexit? Season thing was it?

You will never understand the correlation between austerity and society, because you refuse to accept history, which is why you waste your time blaming the right, blaming racism, and labeling anyone who disagrees with the leftist view, a xenophobic etc. Racism always existed in the UK by the way.

 

[Robert]

No run on the banks in 2008? Northern Rock, Bear Sterns, Icelandic banks to name a few in 2008. I dont know which part of history you are reading but you have it all wrong with respect to 29.

I am looking at you in the face right now and saying Brexit is a symptom and austerity is the cause.

You won't learn from history and instead blame the media. The fact Brexit was a mere myth before 2008 should give you an idea of what really went wrong. The EU referendum wasn't even a pipe dream. It all kicked off in 2010, not a 2 year time frame. Even if I grant you this notion then are you trying to tell me people suddenly decided to turn racist in 2 years and voted for Brexit? Season thing was it?

You will never understand the correlation between austerity and society, because you refuse to accept history, which is why you waste your time blaming the right, blaming racism, and labeling anyone who disagrees with the leftist view, a xenophobic etc. Racism always existed in the UK by the way.

Ok, there was a run on Northern Rock which was nationalised. It nearly happened to RBS and Lloyds, but Mr Brown prevented that with the bailout and so another Great Depression was avoided for the good of us all.

There was no talk of a Referendum until 2014. At that time, people were concerned most about the NHS and terrorism, while the EU was far down on the list. Nobody was calling for a Referendum except the Tory right, the very rich, and a few fringe people like Farage. It simply wasn’t an issue for most Britons. Nobody talked about it. Very few people even knew what the EU is or what it does.

I don’t label all people who disagree with me as a racist and xenophobe, just the ones who are racist and xenophobic. So you look me in the face and say racism had nothing to do with Brexit at all? When so many people voted for Brexit to “stop the Muslims coming in”?

I have been saying for years that the racist/nationalist hard right thrives in times of hardship. Panic of 1873, Great Depression, and post-2008. I disagree that we are on the point of another Great Depression, so the totalitarians will not seize power as they did in Italy and Germany in the thirties.

 

[Technics 1210]

Ok, there was a run on Northern Rock which was nationalised. It nearly happened to RBS and Lloyds, but Mr Brown prevented that with the bailout and so another Great Depression was avoided for the good of us all.

There was no talk of a Referendum until 2014. At that time, people were concerned most about the NHS and terrorism, while the EU was far down on the list. Nobody was calling for a Referendum except the Tory right, the very rich, and a few fringe people like Farage. It simply wasn’t an issue for most Britons. Nobody talked about it. Very few people even knew what the EU is or what it does.

I don’t label all people who disagree with me as a racist and xenophobe, just the ones who are racist and xenophobic. So you look me in the face and say racism had nothing to do with Brexit at all? When so many people voted for Brexit to “stop the Muslims coming in”?

I have been saying for years that the racist/nationalist hard right thrives in times of hardship. Panic of 1873, Great Depression, and post-2008. I disagree that we are on the point of another Great Depression, so the totalitarians will not seize power as they did in Italy and Germany in the thirties.

Here is a list of major banks that collapsed post 2008 crash :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_acquired_or_bankrupted_during_the_Great_Recession

This list doesn't include regional banks. Please look at the list. 1929 crash didnt have as many victims.

I'm looking at your face again and telling you Brexit was not the result of racism, but austerity.

You are not addressing the austerity among the youth. The youth are the future. Hitler didnt come into power just because the oldies voted for him, it was the younger generation who experienced the hardship of Wiemar Germany that supported Hitler in their droves.

Why dont you ask middle class workers, with families, education, why they voted for Brexit. Every answer references the economy/money. Yes there are always a few who would jump on the bandwagon etc, but these racists do not represent the entire folk who voted for Brexit. You seem to be generalising.

AfD is on the up in Germany, as are other right wing movements in Europe. Look at the unemployment rate among the youth in Europe and tell me there is no colleration between austerity and fascism.

Whether we are in another great depression or not is not the point, the point is we are in another period of austerity, and this period at present is the mothership of austerity, so dont be surprised when the right rises.

All im saying is that instead of using labels like racist /xenophobic (which only serve to fuel the right) try and understand how austerity has preceded every major revolution known in human history.

 

[Robert]

Here is a list of major banks that collapsed post 2008 crash :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_acquired_or_bankrupted_during_the_Great_Recession

This list doesn't include regional banks. Please look at the list. 1929 crash didnt have as many victims.

I'm looking at your face again and telling you Brexit was not the result of racism, but austerity.

You are not addressing the austerity among the youth. The youth are the future. Hitler didnt come into power just because the oldies voted for him, it was the younger generation who experienced the hardship of Wiemar Germany that supported Hitler in their droves.

Why dont you ask middle class workers, with families, education, why they voted for Brexit. Every answer references the economy/money. Yes there are always a few who would jump on the bandwagon etc, but these racists do not represent the entire folk who voted for Brexit. You seem to be generalising.

AfD is on the up in Germany, as are other right wing movements in Europe. Look at the unemployment rate among the youth in Europe and tell me there is no colleration between austerity and fascism.

Whether we are in another great depression or not is not the point, the point is we are in another period of austerity, and this period at present is the mothership of austerity, so dont be surprised when the right rises.

All im saying is that instead of using labels like racist /xenophobic (which only serve to fuel the right) try and understand how austerity has preceded every major revolution known in human history.

I don’t know many middle class people who voted Leave. Practically all voted Remain. There is a strong positive correlation between more formal education and the Remain vote. This was actually a factor in changing my mind from Leave. So many smart educated people were for Remain so I started to wonder what I had missed. Lots as it turned out.

Of people who voted Leave, the economy is never mentioned, phrases like “make our own trade deals” come out or “unelected bureaucrats”, or “more money for the NHS” then when I challenge that most say “immigrants” or something anti-German.

As for young people most voted Remain. Very few voted Leave. They don’t blame the EU, they blame the Tories.

 

[Pakpak]

He had severe Parkinson's. Even if he escaped he wouldn't have been alive for very long.