Did Pakistan shoot themselves in the foot by badly scheduling their ODI games ahead of ICC World Cup 2023?

[Gullycricket]

So one recurring theme in the Pavilion show in addition to not selecting a proper spinning option has been the poor scheduling by PCB whether it's playing a series in Srilanka or accepting the hybrid model. The panel agreed that it drained many of the fast bowlers and left the batsman devoid of practice against specific bowlers like Kuldeep, Shamsi. Misbah and Moin were mentioning that a camp in which bowlers like Sufiyan, Faisal Akram bowling to the batsman could have been beneficial rather than playing in humid SL.

What's everyone's opinion on this? Was the hybrid model a disaster and did it do a lot of damage to fast bowlers? Why did PCB not think of this. They treated this WC like a joke. Not to even mention the frequently changing PCB setup .

 

[Savak]

So one recurring theme in the Pavilion show in addition to not selecting a proper spinning option has been the poor scheduling by PCB whether it's playing a series in Srilanka or accepting the hybrid model. The panel agreed that it drained many of the fast bowlers and left the batsman devoid of practice against specific bowlers like Kuldeep, Shamsi. Misbah and Moin were mentioning that a camp in which bowlers like Sufiyan, Faisal Akram bowling to the batsman could have been beneficial rather than playing in humid SL.

What's everyone's opinion on this? Was the hybrid model a disaster and did it do a lot of damage to fast bowlers? Why did PCB not think of this. They treated this WC like a joke. Not to even mention the frequently changing PCB setup .

Don't buy this. The reality is that our players are just not fit enough in comparison to teams like India, Australia who play a lot of cricket. That said, the team management should have adopted a proper rotation policy and the Board should not have issued NOC's for T-20 Leagues

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

So one recurring theme in the Pavilion show in addition to not selecting a proper spinning option has been the poor scheduling by PCB whether it's playing a series in Srilanka or accepting the hybrid model. The panel agreed that it drained many of the fast bowlers and left the batsman devoid of practice against specific bowlers like Kuldeep, Shamsi. Misbah and Moin were mentioning that a camp in which bowlers like Sufiyan, Faisal Akram bowling to the batsman could have been beneficial rather than playing in humid SL.

What's everyone's opinion on this? Was the hybrid model a disaster and did it do a lot of damage to fast bowlers? Why did PCB not think of this. They treated this WC like a joke. Not to even mention the frequently changing PCB setup .

Why can't you guys accept that the team is not good enough. For T20Is may be decent but players don't have real skills for longer formats to compete consistently against top side.
Wasim Jr played just one game in Asia Cup, and was on a long break and yesterday after 6 overs he was cramping again multiple times.
The whole structure is not producing players with nous and fitness, as well as skills.
Something is wrong in the pipeline, identify and fix that instead of looking for excuses.
The players of top teams play so much more cricket, especially Test cricket but still they have peak fitness and perform at optimal levels.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pakistan is suffering from the same disease as England. Entire team is out of form. No matter what they try and how much they try, nothing seems to work and they find a way to lose. Rest of it are all excuses.

The only thing different Pakistan could have done is, instead of selecting 4 specialist seamers for Indian conditions, it should have been 3 seamers and another pure specialist spinner. Every team has that specialist spinner. Kuldeep, Zampa, Maharaj/Shamsi. Theekshana, Rshid/Noor/Mujib etc. These people are only good at one thing and on Indian pitches, they are invaluable.
Pakistan has selected Shadab who is more of a batsman these days and Nawaz as a bowling all rounder. They needed one mystery spinner in the squad.

 

[asfandyar]

Pakistan has the highest Diabetes rate in the world (30%). Our players are not athletes, both in fitness and mindset. E.g. Arshad is much bigger than Neeraj, but Neeraj always outperforms him. The football team has imports from Denmark and UK, but the result is same. Indians are now even beating us like minnows in kabaddi and hockey. Currently, another player with atrocious fitness is being considered as a captaincy replacement for Babar.

 

[rickroll]

Don't buy this. The reality is that our players are just not fit enough in comparison to teams like India, Australia who play a lot of cricket. That said, the team management should have adopted a proper rotation policy and the Board should not have issued NOC's for T-20 Leagues

Good points and I agree as well. We are just not as fit and athletic as India and SENA countries, this is the truth. No amount of social media, birthday celebrations, cake cuttings, dinner outings or dramabaazi can let us escape from this harsh truth.

 

[kron]

Don't buy this. The reality is that our players are just not fit enough in comparison to teams like India, Australia who play a lot of cricket. That said, the team management should have adopted a proper rotation policy and the Board should not have issued NOC's for T-20 Leagues

This pretty much sums it up perfectly.

We are simply not good enough the longer the format.

Actually I would even say we are better in tests compared to odi although we are still a middling side even in red ball format.

In t20s we are top 3 4.

Naseem shahaeen would be our best bowlers.

Our bench is woeful.

Need to develop ihanssual for odi first let alone tests.
zaman is too raw and right now is a t20 bowler.

What did dahani do wrong? He deserves a few more chances. Couldn't have been worse than useless hasan ali. Need him back for odi and tests.

 

[Ozeirk]

This pretty much sums it up perfectly.

We are simply not good enough the longer the format.

Actually I would even say we are better in tests compared to odi although we are still a middling side even in red ball format.

In t20s we are top 3 4.

Naseem shahaeen would be our best bowlers.

Our bench is woeful.

Need to develop ihanssual for odi first let alone tests.
zaman is too raw and right now is a t20 bowler.

What did dahani do wrong? He deserves a few more chances. Couldn't have been worse than useless hasan ali. Need him back for odi and tests.

I don't think we are a bad ODI side, Pakistan has had awful luck with form. Imam who typically scores a lot of runs at the top of the order has been completely useless, Babar Azam isn't able to score centuries and is getting out for low scores which is usually not the case. Shaheen hasn't been the same after injury, spinners are unable to spin the ball and Haris loses his edge when he doesn't get support at the start of the bowling with Naseem injured. Also, what's happening back home, their struggles with PCB and the rumours about players not getting paid till late for Asia Cup is probably all taking a toll on the players.

 

[kron]

I don't think we are a bad ODI side, Pakistan has had awful luck with form. Imam who typically scores a lot of runs at the top of the order has been completely useless, Babar Azam isn't able to score centuries and is getting out for low scores which is usually not the case. Shaheen hasn't been the same after injury, spinners are unable to spin the ball and Haris loses his edge when he doesn't get support at the start of the bowling with Naseem injured. Also, what's happening back home, their struggles with PCB and the rumours about players not getting paid till late for Asia Cup is probably all taking a toll on the players.

Just feels like more excuses man. I am tired of hearing these same sort of stuff. We even had a decent prep. We played Asia cup right before the world premiere tournament. I am not sure what else we could really do. Poor selection calls on maybe 2 players max but even still I don't see it making much difference. We need a complete overhaul. Have different captains for each format. Different coaches even. Red ball should have a separate coach.

 

[Ozeirk]

Just feels like more excuses man. I am tired of hearing these same sort of stuff. We even had a decent prep. We played Asia cup right before the world premiere tournament. I am not sure what else we could really do. Poor selection calls on maybe 2 players max but even still I don't see it making much difference. We need a complete overhaul. Have different captains for each format. Different coaches even. Red ball should have a separate coach.

Each team has the right to have a bad tournament. Pakistan were in the world Cup final last year for T20s. India got kicked out early last year and everyone wanted their heads on a plate.

There is a worldcup or champions trophy every year almost, Pakistan just needs to get back into the right head space, focus on working on their weaknesses.

Bringing a new captain is not going to solve anything right now and Babar should be allowed to learn from this experience and continue unless he willingly decides to leave it to focus on his batting.

 

[kron]

Each team has the right to have a bad tournament. Pakistan were in the world Cup final last year for T20s. India got kicked out early last year and everyone wanted their heads on a plate.

There is a worldcup or champions trophy every year almost, Pakistan just needs to get back into the right head space, focus on working on their weaknesses.

Bringing a new captain is not going to solve anything right now and Babar should be allowed to learn from this experience and continue unless he willingly decides to leave it to focus on his batting.

I agree with most part but not about captaincy. You can clearly see captaincy is taking a toll on an otherwise very good player. We need a different captain for both red ball and white ball cricket. It's not the same style. England methodology between 2016-2019 was the right approach. They need to also focus on having a separate pool of players for each format. T20 players should be selected based on psl exploits and performances across leagues around the world. Shouldn't amlgamat players fro. red ball to t20 etc. First class cricket should be a priority to develop players.

 

[Sunzi]

If the scheduling was fine, there'd have been another excuse.

The problem is deeper than schedules or diets, intent or talent. Its everything - we aren't good enough and have been badly exposed this year.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Mickey Arthur during the Pakistan vs. New Zealand Pre-Game presser.

[Reporter:]

Being on the road continuously, how much does that affect the team? Because like we said, they're used to it in the IPL, but this again is a novelty for the Pakistan team. How much has that been a factor?

[Mickey Arthur:]

As a Pakistan team, we play a hell of a lot of cricket. So being on the road is nothing new for these guys. What has been tough is the fact that we've been under a massive amount of security. So, I've sort of taken it back. And to be fair, I found it difficult. It's almost like we've been back in the COVID times, where you were almost secluded to your floor and your team room. So much so that their breakfast is in a separate room to everybody else. So, it's almost, that's been the tough aspect.

The aspect about being on the road is, our boys are used to it. But when they're on the road, they've still been able to get out and go and have meals, etc., at different places, and get out on their own accord where we haven't been able to do this time. And that's been tough. That has been quite stifling.

It certainly does. It definitely does. And I've seen it with some players where it has been, you wake up again and it's like Groundhog Day. It's exactly the same. You have breakfast and if it's a non-training day, you're back to your room. We've tried to have sort of little fun team events and whatever within our team room. But you know, there's only so much you can recreate. I think the guys have been out three times - we've managed to do that with security, get them out to a different restaurant or whatever, just to give them a little bit of a taste of the outside world.​

 

[pakistani pride]

Don't buy this. The reality is that our players are just not fit enough in comparison to teams like India, Australia who play a lot of cricket. That said, the team management should have adopted a proper rotation policy and the Board should not have issued NOC's for T-20 Leagues

This its a combination, but seeing Naseem Shab out there in what the SL PL? Durng the August heat, i mean where is the sense. Main issue however is Babar the Captain, how can you go to India thinking 280 runs will win you games? Also not taking actual spinners is hurting Pak big time. Not to mention the selection of Hasan trundler Ali.

 

[saqib.rai]

So one recurring theme in the Pavilion show in addition to not selecting a proper spinning option has been the poor scheduling by PCB whether it's playing a series in Srilanka or accepting the hybrid model. The panel agreed that it drained many of the fast bowlers and left the batsman devoid of practice against specific bowlers like Kuldeep, Shamsi. Misbah and Moin were mentioning that a camp in which bowlers like Sufiyan, Faisal Akram bowling to the batsman could have been beneficial rather than playing in humid SL.

What's everyone's opinion on this? Was the hybrid model a disaster and did it do a lot of damage to fast bowlers? Why did PCB not think of this. They treated this WC like a joke. Not to even mention the frequently changing PCB setup .

I remember reading an article in Which Babar Azam's father was saying that he told Babar to play in LPL instead of Canada league which was offering more money as LPL would be better preparation for Asia Cup and World Cup.

EVERYONE IN THE COMMENTS SECTION WAS PRAISING THE AZAM HOUSEHOLD. And see now what is happening

Our scheduling was perfect. Had a break between Asia Cup and World Cup.
Players played LPL before Asia Cup to get accustomed to conditions.

India was playing 3 match ODI series vs Australia after the Asia Cup and our players were resting. Shouldn't they have gotten fatigued instead?

See you need to understand, shows like the Pavillion are happening EVERYDAY. everyday they have a pre, mid and post match show.
OBVIOUSLY THEY RUN OUT OF CONTENT, so say anything and everything without giving it a second thought or doing proper research

 

[pakistani pride]

I remember reading an article in Which Babar Azam's father was saying that he told Babar to play in LPL instead of Canada league which was offering more money as LPL would be better preparation for Asia Cup and World Cup.

EVERYONE IN THE COMMENTS SECTION WAS PRAISING THE AZAM HOUSEHOLD. And see now what is happening

Our scheduling was perfect. Had a break between Asia Cup and World Cup.
Players played LPL before Asia Cup to get accustomed to conditions.

India was playing 3 match ODI series vs Australia after the Asia Cup and our players were resting. Shouldn't they have gotten fatigued instead?

See you need to understand, shows like the Pavillion are happening EVERYDAY. everyday they have a pre, mid and post match show.
OBVIOUSLY THEY RUN OUT OF CONTENT, so say anything and everything without giving it a second thought or doing proper research

Babar doesnt really need to play circus T20 leauges for money. Had he been a proper leader, he would have gathered his troops and made sure proper training would have taken place. Instead he went to SL and even worse was the Captain there making Naseem bowl there as well.

 

[mominsaigol]

The reason we're failing isn't due to lack of odi's, it's due to lack of grooming and dosti yaari.

It was dead clear from our games against afg, NZ, Asia cup that agha, Nawaz and shadab were red flags, and that fakhar, Shaheen and naseem were not fully fit.

Furthermore new blood like Abdullah, tayyab, Saud were not tested nor were leading performers of lpl or cpl like saim ayub tested. We had 15+ games before this cup to try em out? But nope.

Abdullah got shoved in last minute and was expected to perform on semi final stage, Saud was barely tested until now ans ots clear he's playing out of position in an order that doesn't suit him.

It was also clear certain players were inform like imad waseem in the NZ t20 series, amir in cpl and sarfraz in the test series, yes ik different formats but in those same formats nawaz was useless in t20, so was rizwan.

Players who were in Red hot form were not tested or tested until it was too late, players who were out of form or medicore like agha, Nawaz, Shadab were kept on persisted with, Players who were unfit like fakhar, shaheen and naseem were not rested.

 

[pakistani pride]

Mickey Arthur during the Pakistan vs. New Zealand Pre-Game presser.

[Reporter:]

Being on the road continuously, how much does that affect the team? Because like we said, they're used to it in the IPL, but this again is a novelty for the Pakistan team. How much has that been a factor?

[Mickey Arthur:]

As a Pakistan team, we play a hell of a lot of cricket. So being on the road is nothing new for these guys. What has been tough is the fact that we've been under a massive amount of security. So, I've sort of taken it back. And to be fair, I found it difficult. It's almost like we've been back in the COVID times, where you were almost secluded to your floor and your team room. So much so that their breakfast is in a separate room to everybody else. So, it's almost, that's been the tough aspect.

The aspect about being on the road is, our boys are used to it. But when they're on the road, they've still been able to get out and go and have meals, etc., at different places, and get out on their own accord where we haven't been able to do this time. And that's been tough. That has been quite stifling.

It certainly does. It definitely does. And I've seen it with some players where it has been, you wake up again and it's like Groundhog Day. It's exactly the same. You have breakfast and if it's a non-training day, you're back to your room. We've tried to have sort of little fun team events and whatever within our team room. But you know, there's only so much you can recreate. I think the guys have been out three times - we've managed to do that with security, get them out to a different restaurant or whatever, just to give them a little bit of a taste of the outside world.​

Ooh Mickey please just stop, they are there to play the WC not hang out like tourists (which they actually are). So much crying, just admit you messed up like a man!

 

[Rana]

Pakistan is suffering from the same disease as England. Entire team is out of form. No matter what they try and how much they try, nothing seems to work and they find a way to lose. Rest of it are all excuses.

The only thing different Pakistan could have done is, instead of selecting 4 specialist seamers for Indian conditions, it should have been 3 seamers and another pure specialist spinner. Every team has that specialist spinner. Kuldeep, Zampa, Maharaj/Shamsi. Theekshana, Rshid/Noor/Mujib etc. These people are only good at one thing and on Indian pitches, they are invaluable.
Pakistan has selected Shadab who is more of a batsman these days and Nawaz as a bowling all rounder. They needed one mystery spinner in the squad.

England in form are a contender to win the World Cup

Pakistan in form or out of form are not. Simple as

The world doesn’t revolve around us

 

[Rana]

Saud and Abdullah become mainstays of your team since Asia cup because of extreme emergency.

Where was the planning? It was never there in the first place, that’s the true answer

 

[Rana]

4 players in the side get to do whatever is best for them personally.

The other 7 have to be told by the ‘management’ that their roles are what the management sees best for you.

4 players are above the management.

 

[Rana]

4 players are managing the management lol

 

[zaidihusain]

1. What was the need to play 3 match ODI series against Afghanistan in August in Sri Lanka?
2. Even if PCB wanted to play, what was to need to play full strength side?
3. Shaheen played 3 ODIs in that series and Haris & Naseem played two each. Wasim Junior only got to play 1 match in that series. Why Zaman Khan or any other fast bowler was not included in that series?
4. Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Rizwan, Iftikhar, Shadab played all 3 matches in that series and all these 6 have disappointed in Asia Cup & this WC except their one-off performances. Saud Shakeel played only one match & Abdullah Shafiq didn't played single match in that series and they still have performed decently considering limited opportunities they got.

It is clear that the current team management never had proper plan to improve bench strength as no rotation policy was implemented to give match practice to players sitting on the bench.

 

[Rana]

The truth is, Pakistan are never in form or out of form.

We have a certain level of ability that we can match every game. The opposition are not their to just roll over like the jobbers you have become accustomed to (B/C teams).

Shaheen isn’t the Alpha that we might believe he is when he bats against Marsh for example. Marsh owns him. Rohit will now own him.

 

[bones]

The PCB is scheduling like this because this is what the public want.

I ask friends and family and hardly any of them have watched a single match in full this world. They all watch every Pakistan T20 world cup match and some in bi-lateral series.

When will the members on this forum realise - cricket is in the entertainment business and the public are not entertained by 50 over cricket. This is reflected in the viewership figures going down.

 

[mominsaigol]

4 players are managing the management lol

Tbf Shaheen and shadab has a massive say but their not managing the management.

Babar has held the management hostage and rizwan is > the management lol. Director roman reigns bootleg version

 

[Cover Drive Six]

All Asian countries prepared well before the World Cup by participating in the Asia Cup.

However, Pakistan played too many series against minnow teams and B teams. Even before the Asia Cup, they played ODI series against Afghanistan and New Zealand D team.lol

 

[JaDed]

Each team has the right to have a bad tournament. Pakistan were in the world Cup final last year for T20s. India got kicked out early last year and everyone wanted their heads on a plate.

There is a worldcup or champions trophy every year almost, Pakistan just needs to get back into the right head space, focus on working on their weaknesses.

Bringing a new captain is not going to solve anything right now and Babar should be allowed to learn from this experience and continue unless he willingly decides to leave it to focus on his batting.

India got kicked out in 2021 .. last year we were semi finalists.

 

[MenInG]

All Asian countries prepared well before the World Cup by participating in the Asia Cup.

However, Pakistan played too many series against minnow teams and B teams. Even before the Asia Cup, they played ODI series against Afghanistan and New Zealand D team.lol

No one to blame except themselves.

From team selection to scheduling.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Excuses.

In India, you need proper spinners. We are playing people averaging 70+ in ODI cricket, and 100+ specifically in the middle overs where they are supposed to strike. You can never win a World Cup in India with two liabilities, who should be your main weapons in actual on these pitches.

We have not invested in a specialist finger spinner, which is imperative in ODI cricket during the middle-overs.

The batsmen have been made to look pale by everyone, due to their non-attacking nature and the highest percentage of dot balls in this World Cup.

Babar relied on his pace attack and Fakhar providing starts to nullify these disadvantages. Unfortunately once Naseem got injured, Shaheen, Rauf and Fakhar lost form, he could not cope with the tremendous pressure and made dumb mistakes.

 

[Devadwal]

Babar poor form is the reason why they not perform well so far.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar poor form is the reason why they not perform well so far.

Lol, that's not true.

The whole team relies on fakhar magic too much.

Pakistan would have lost the nz d series 3-2 rather then winning 4-1 if fakhar wasn't around

 

[Swashbuckler]

Schedule was good, Pakistan didn't implement learnings from the Asia Cup and that is the problem.

It was a great chance to have sighters on Siraj, Iyer, Afghan spinners, Sri Lankan batsmen etc. It was a great chance to try to learn to read the ball from Kuldeep's hands and overcome him on a spin friendly pitch, video analysis or facing other chinamen in nets is ok but nothing like facing the real deal in a match situation. Also a chance to land some psychological blows on Indian top order, who barring Kohli, didn't enjoy much success against Pakistan in previous few internationals.

Regarding the last bit, Pak somewhat managed that by reducing India to 66/4 in Pallekelle. But what followed should have sent alarm bells ringing. That was max 150 pitch, but Shadab and Nawaz allowed Kishan and Pandya to forge a 150 runs partnership playing risk free cricket. Also exposed Babar's stupid captaincy who persisted with those useless spinners for so long. To be honest even Rauf was bad that match, too expensive and that too should have given PCT coaches something to worry about. It is Pakistan's bad luck that the match got washed out because had India bowled on that pitch, it would have exposed the Pak spinners, Rauf and captain Babar badly, and a double failure against India might have forced some squad changes. Pallekelle was as bad a failure as Colombo in the super 4s as far as bowling and captaincy was concerned, because the pitch was a bowler's paradise. Again in the Colombo game against India, Pak's spin adequacies came to the forefront, same against the Lankans in the virtual SF where Shadab probably landed a world record number of full tosses and Ifti was Pak's best spinner. Pakistan's slow starts too were an issue and that should have been a learning. India, Sri Lanka, even Afghanistan were so much more aggressive in the PP and that would be a recurring theme in the world cup as well.

What happened in the end? Pakistan selected the same squad for the World Cup while all other teams made minor tweaks. Why did Pak not select a specialist spinner despite the Asia Cup disaster? Is it fault of the schedule or lack of learning, arrogance, absence of foresight and planning? Ultimately the WC losses against Afghanistan and SA could have been avoided had Pak played correct spinners, don't you all agree? Even Australia game would have been close, only match where it would have made zero difference was against India, that was purely a batting failure from 155/2, on a batting beauty where 330 was par.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Real question is how did Shadab and Nawaz get an uninterrupted run of 5-6 games in a World Cup in India after what they displayed in Asia Cup in Sri Lanka? That is the fundamental question to answer, not bad schedule, ICC, BCCI or some lame conspiracy theory. No wonder the first game these two liabilities were dropped, Pak played its most flawless game of the tournament. Against a weak opponent no doubt, but had those two fake all rounders played last game, Litton, Mahmudullah and Shakib would have taken the score to 260, wouldn't have been that easy a run chase after that.

 

[160KPH]

It certainly plays a role - how big of a role it plays I am not sure. Joe Root made a similar complaint about England's scheduling as their schedule was filled with Test Matches but very few good ODI series against good sides.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Playing in the heat in the Pakistan leg of the asia cup has tired out the bowlers.

 

[Savak]

Real question is how did Shadab and Nawaz get an uninterrupted run of 5-6 games in a World Cup in India after what they displayed in Asia Cup in Sri Lanka? That is the fundamental question to answer, not bad schedule, ICC, BCCI or some lame conspiracy theory. No wonder the first game these two liabilities were dropped, Pak played its most flawless game of the tournament. Against a weak opponent no doubt, but had those two fake all rounders played last game, Litton, Mahmudullah and Shakib would have taken the score to 260, wouldn't have been that easy a run chase after that.

One answer to that. Babar Azam. I hope after the WC the PCB comes down hard on him to give him a much needed reality check that he is not indispensable