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Did the Champions Trophy win do more harm than good?

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mkyawar

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Looking at the current performance, our seniors have failed. Would it had been better that we not won the champions trophy as that would have atleast gotten rid of som of the seniors. I think Sarfaraz himself asks for hafeez, malik and azhar because he knows that if they loose the blame will fall equally on the seniors. If he plays youngsters, then the blame will fall on the captain himself.
 
Not really. Even if we didn't win it would've been the same lineup. Do you honestly think the Pakistani management has any sharam?
 
For passionate Pakistani fans it did more harm by extending careers of liability players.
 
The OP is a classic case of overthinking. How can you extrapolate future events like this?

Winning an ICC tournament is big, savour that.
 
It will harm us more than good. Inzamam got praised for selecting squad so as our so-called seniors.May be we have to wait atleast 2019 World cup to end the torture if we are lucky
 
Has winning the Champions Trophy hurt Pakistan in the long run?

Feel like winning the thing with passengers like Azhar, Hafeez, Malik and Sarfraz has given all these guys a new lease on life. Even if they didn’t perform in all games, simply by association it seems like selectors have given them another go.

Had Thisara Perera hung on to Sarfraz’s catch all these deadweights may have been dropped, if not most.
 
CT win was watched by hundreds of millions around the world, was against your arch rival in an icc tournament.. You guys just need to get rid of the dead weight Inzy needs to be smart selector.
 
NO - It has brought a global trophy to PAK.

Had PAK lost all 3 group matches, still Ul Haq would have kept his favorites. In fact, chances are high that Hasan, Raees, Shadab, Fahim, Fakhar would have been dropped by now.
 
If we had lost the youngsters would have gotten the axe, the failing seniors would have stayed because:"we need to build a new team around experienced players to help the youngsters along".
 
So we should not have won the ICC Champions Trophy for the betterment of Pak Cricket!!? What a stupid theory that is. At least we gave the fans something to cheer about then. I would never swap that for winning in New Zealand. Every tournament and tour brings different challenges.
 
Pakistan were very lucky that India had a day off in the CT although India are crap they should have won the CT.
 
You won an international trophy, I'd take that over a dozen series wins.
 
I would trade a good stable consistent team over a CT win. Even WI won that, but it didnt help their Cricket much.
 
This reality check was inevitable. Our deluded fans were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy fluke, and they needed a dose of reality.

Our fans fully deserve this humiliation.

Pakistan cricket and mediocrity are synonymous - now, always and forever.
 
BDfanforever said:
I would trade a good stable consistent team over a CT win. Even WI won that, but it didnt help their Cricket much.
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Might have exaggerated, but yeah I would take our overall results/performances over Pakistan's + the CT. It must be so infuriating to follow them.

Pakistan's results and WC would be tough, idk how I would be able to put up with such performances.
 
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Manager101 said:
Winning major tournaments is what every team prepares for, isn't it ?
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think issue is that management thought they had reached the top and they can still stay there based on CT win
 
MenInG said:
think issue is that management thought they had reached the top and they can still stay there based on CT win
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Hafeez should have been told to leave the game gracefully. Pakistan really need to eliminate this senior culture. Australia did not pick aging Katich anymore even though he was performing pretty well when he was dropped. They dropped the likes of Waugh brothers, Symonds, etc. what is preventing Inzy from dropping 35+ players?
 
Mamoon said:
This reality check was inevitable. Our deluded fans were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy fluke, and they needed a dose of reality.

Our fans fully deserve this humiliation.

Pakistan cricket and mediocrity are synonymous - now, always and forever.
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A team cannot go from mediocre to great in a span of a week.

Fans in their josh forget that.
 
MenInG said:
think issue is that management thought they had reached the top and they can still stay there based on CT win
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Agreed, probably we will need lots of improvement in batting department with regards to including players with intention and technique to play at 6 rpo atleast. Maybe Sahibzada Farhan and Harris Sohail have that skills to do that but they will also need to prove that in ODI level and improve aswell.
 
Mamoon said:
This reality check was inevitable. Our deluded fans were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy fluke, and they needed a dose of reality.

Our fans fully deserve this humiliation.

Pakistan cricket and mediocrity are synonymous - now, always and forever.
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LOL. Its been a long time since the ICC wins but your still so hurt?

This JAMODIS will be forgotten in a month. The epic PHAINTA we gave to your team in the final is one for the ages.
 
In the end it only matters how many ICC trophies your team has won. Bilaterals are good entertainment but dont stand the test of time. If my team keep failing in bilaterals and winning the odd ICC tournament, I will take it any day.
 
Very true cricketcartoons, nothing riding on bilaterals 9/10 home team will win.

Come the wrld cup nxt year its a given smith kohli or sarfaraz will be lifting the cup. The rest r just making up the numbers, your SA NZ ENg will choke/fail miserably as usual.
 
Replacement of Hafeez,Azhar,Malik and Sarfraz will be Shehzad, Maqsood, Asad, Akmal.So those who are dreaming of a revival of Pak ODI team are really fools. Winning CT was marvelous but Pakistan won the trophy with a mediocre team and it was inevitable that they will be exposed soon. WI also won the CT but they had been always a minnow ODI team since then.Pakistan's real ODI status is reflected on their ODI ranking.Pakistan always presented some amazing talents in the past but that was a long time ago.Pipeline seems to be empty now and that means they will in trouble for a long time in coming days.
 
This kiwi tour is just the slap in face team needed. Hopefully all senior batsmen will get the boot for their pathetic performances.
 
I would take a Champions Trophy win over India against 10 straight series whitewash losses.
 
No... it’s just that we need to build on it.

Clearly it showed that youngsters are the way forward. We just need to get rid of the dead wood.
 
BDfanforever said:
I would trade a good stable consistent team over a CT win. Even WI won that, but it didnt help their Cricket much.
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Never - a trophy win is a trophy win. No one bothers how good & talented this French football team is - people’ll remember Pourtugal for ever for that Euro win.

For PAK’s case, that win was even more vital, not for only for trophy cabinet - it has saved Shadab, Fahim & Fakhar from the ‘inexperience’ curse. I am sure you don’t know in his 4 years, Ul Haq welcomed 4 new comers in his team in total - one in his last series; other three were dropped after their debut match - 2 forever. And, that was the period PAK won back to back U19 WC.

If he wasn’t instrumental and MoS, I actually would have been skeptic about Hasan as well - Gul hasn’t left cricket yet, and Ul Haq’s memory tells that Gul was his death bowler 12 years back ......
 
for future we should avoid winning any big tournament because that will harm us in longer run. Smart OP
 
Some of the important players from CT are missing from current line up. Junaid and imad leave gaping holes in the bowling. It’s the lack of penetration shown by the bowlers which I find more troubling than batting collapses.
 
Our post CT decisions are what I regret. Should have gotten rid of the dead wood.
 
I think some players actually think they are better than what they actually are.

Sometimes a tournament win can inflate a few egos and make people think they are irreplaceable and that is what is happening at the moment.
 
Lol. Stop your wrist-slitting already. The CT win was absolutely fantastic and was the greatest triumph of any team in 2017. A legendary chapter in the history of Pakistan cricket.

I don't give a rat's tail about the current series, comparatively speaking. We're two quality pacers short, the team's poor performance can be attributed to poor form and we will soon rid ourselves of Hafeez and Azhar.

Now that the weaknesses have been laid bare, the team will improve and will be stronger than they were going into this series. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, after all. Fickle fans can continue being fickle however.
 
Hasan123 said:
Our post CT decisions are what I regret. Should have gotten rid of the dead wood.
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How do you get rid of performing players out of the blue? How do you even justify that to the public? Someone like Malik has a huge following in Pakistan.

Only after a failure can the team remove dead wood, so from that perspective this current series is a blessing in disguise.
 
Lol Champions Trophy and World Cups are what all these bilaterals are used to prepare for.


How can winning the ultimate trophy do you harm? :facepalm:


Tbh Pak needs to do away with Azhar Ali, Shoaib Malik, Mohammed Hafeez.

Bring in more youngsters, not like you are winning or losing respectably anyway. Why not blood in youngsters before 2019 World Cup?
 
Bilal7 said:
How do you get rid of performing players out of the blue? How do you even justify that to the public? Someone like Malik has a huge following in Pakistan.

Only after a failure can the team remove dead wood, so from that perspective this current series is a blessing in disguise.
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So a team is selected based on how his fans react in Pakistan? That's absurd. Even in India, I think there was probably only one player who was untouchable, SRT. Even Dada in his prime was sacked and dropped unceremoniously, and wasn't picked till he did well in domestic despite how much uproar his fans caused.
 
Bilal7 said:
How do you get rid of performing players out of the blue? How do you even justify that to the public? Someone like Malik has a huge following in Pakistan.

Only after a failure can the team remove dead wood, so from that perspective this current series is a blessing in disguise.
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Sometimes you have to make brave decisions to do prosper in the future. With the revolutionary in charge this won't happen. Hafeez and Azhar will play till the 2019 WC. Inzi is loyal to certain players, you'll see and you will keep on backing these selections .

I would have stuck with Malik but judge him on a series by basis. I would have him in the squad at the very minimum. Right now he's guaranteed a start.
 
Hasan123 said:
Sometimes you have to make brave decisions to do prosper in the future. With the revolutionary in charge this won't happen. Hafeez and Azhar will play till the 2019 WC. Inzi is loyal to certain players, you'll see and you will keep on backing these selections .

I would have stuck with Malik but judge him on a series by basis. I would have him in the squad at the very minimum. Right now he's guaranteed a start.
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Very easy to say in hindsight. Unless Hafeez and Azhar improve their performances drastically, they will not be playing the next World Cup. The "Revolutionary" has dumped many TTFs and brought in several youngsters. However, you were one of those that wanted him sacked after the CT squad was announced so I don't expect you to ever praise him again after we ended up winning the CT...

Cricfan4eva said:
So a team is selected based on how his fans react in Pakistan? That's absurd. Even in India, I think there was probably only one player who was untouchable, SRT. Even Dada in his prime was sacked and dropped unceremoniously, and wasn't picked till he did well in domestic despite how much uproar his fans caused.
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Yes, yes. We all know how perfect the selection process is in India. That is why you still have a washed up Dhoni in your ODI side, have Rohit Sharma playing tests in South Africa instead of Rahane and why the likes of Kapil, Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj, etc all continued playing well past their sell-by dates.

The selectors have to be accountable to someone. They simply could not justify dropping Azhar and Hafeez after the CT when both of them helped us win the tournament and both did well against Sri Lanka as well, IIRC.
 
Bilal7 said:
How do you get rid of performing players out of the blue? How do you even justify that to the public? Someone like Malik has a huge following in Pakistan.

Only after a failure can the team remove dead wood, so from that perspective this current series is a blessing in disguise.
Click to expand...

Problem is seniors need to be dropped now. Otherwise if they score in the last two dead rubbers, they will be retained. Which only hurts the future.
 
Nah

a poor selection and not enough prepartions did this
though to be honest, i didn't expect us to win the series, but these performances have been embarrassing.

we are playing a batsman less
and only 1 from Hafeez/Malik should be playing
 
Alot of players have been kicked out like Wahab, Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Asad Shafiq and many more players that aren't good enough in ODI cricket and maybe the other formats to......... actually yeah they aren't good enough for Pakistan. With that being said Hafeez, Malik and Azhar are the only ones left from the ODI team to be kicked out and I for one am hoping that they are kicked out after the NZ series which they won't be though.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, yes. We all know how perfect the selection process is in India. That is why you still have a washed up Dhoni in your ODI side, have Rohit Sharma playing tests in South Africa instead of Rahane and why the likes of Kapil, Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj, etc all continued playing well past their sell-by dates.

The selectors have to be accountable to someone. They simply could not justify dropping Azhar and Hafeez after the CT when both of them helped us win the tournament and both did well against Sri Lanka as well, IIRC.
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A washed up Dhoni who averages well over 50 in ODI's last year?

Rohit over Rahane is ridiculous - indefensible. That only goes to show no matter how good you are, you can get dropped based on poor form. While Malik, Hafeez and Azhar keep playing on reputation?

Yuvraj, Sehwag unceremoniously sacked from the sides not once but many a times.

SRT was the only one who hung around and couldn't be booted. Which I mentioned.

Kapil well he had the luck of being a fast-bowling all-rounder which India couldn't find a replacement for.

I bothered to answer all this just to show how hollow your argument is but I would still like to ask why bring India into a thread which is talking about Pakistan's team selection?

Or do you think Pakistan are playing their best team and this is what they can muster? A 0-3 down and 74 all out.

Please don't be predictable and discuss about India's test performance. Answer to the point or don't bother.
 
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Rayyman said:
Problem is seniors need to be dropped now. Otherwise if they score in the last two dead rubbers, they will be retained. Which only hurts the future.
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Such a cool idea - Ul Haq knew it long back.

So,now Azhar, Malik drops out, Imam & Nawaz comes from youngsters quota for future. Sarfu also needs to rest, so multi facet MoHa keeps his spot as WK. Amir isn't getting wickets - so Yamin comes to take the new ball with his swing, as there is no 4th pacer.

Brilliant idea indeed, so was the squad - that's why they are selectors, know & see much better that key board worriers (and that reflects in T20 squad perfectly)
 
Bilal7 said:
Very easy to say in hindsight. Unless Hafeez and Azhar improve their performances drastically, they will not be playing the next World Cup. The "Revolutionary" has dumped many TTFs and brought in several youngsters. However, you were one of those that wanted him sacked after the CT squad was announced so I don't expect you to ever praise him again after we ended up winning the CT...



Yes, yes. We all know how perfect the selection process is in India. That is why you still have a washed up Dhoni in your ODI side, have Rohit Sharma playing tests in South Africa instead of Rahane and why the likes of Kapil, Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj, etc all continued playing well past their sell-by dates.

The selectors have to be accountable to someone. They simply could not justify dropping Azhar and Hafeez after the CT when both of them helped us win the tournament and both did well against Sri Lanka as well, IIRC.
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Let's see if Azhar and Hafeez get dropped. Inzi has a chance to discard Hafeez but recalled him for the Australia LO series . Ever since than apart from a couple of innings he's been rubbish. Yet he still selected so I seriously doubt a year away from the WC Inzi will drop Hafeez.

I will give him credit if he does well which I have before. If he doesn't drop Hafeez after failures, you will still defend Inzi:))) :))).
 
Pakistan team doesn't care about silly bilateral games. They will show their true mettle during the 2019 world cup.
 
Indeed champions trophy was a fluke

Seeing Pakistan vs india matches in asia cup it is clear that champions trophy final was just a fluke
 
Yes asia cup is held in our adopted home UAE , we play in uae every year , psl is also played in uae
 
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Nope, it was not a fluke. Winning 4-5 matches in a row is not a fluke. Pakistan played well to win it, but Pakistan is not a consistent team.
 
Stars aligned for you but you still had to win those games. You beat top sides enroute to that win so it was richly deserved.

However, that victory should've been used as a springboard to take the next step and establish yourselves as a consistent top quality ODI side. Looking from outside, I get the feeling too many people (including players, board and fans) thought that tournament win alone solidified their place as a top ODI team despite being ranked 6 at the time. It was a major mistake, there are still too many holes in your squad. Perhaps a tonking in this tournament might result in a much needed shake up.
 
Biggest harm was making our mediocre captain unquestionable holy messiah.
 
We are still playing an out dated brand of cricket. Too many of our players on an average operate at a SR of 60-70 for most of their innings and only accelerate at the end if they are lucky not to get out early and raise their SR to 80-90.

India on the other hand on an avg operates at a SR of 90 plus on average and everyone pushes on taking the SR to 100-120 plus.

Pakistan has too many one dimensional batsmen in the form of Imam, Babar, Malik, Sarfaraz, Harris Sohail and co. This brand of cricket is now out dated. I am personally very dissapointed with Mickey, he is a very reactive coach and lacks vision, he should have used the series against WI, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka to give chances to players who need to be backed and groomed to take Pakistan Cricket to the modern era.
 
Pakistan played well to win the tournament. But it was a short period of consistency.
 
msb314 said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
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One of the biggest flukes in history. This third rate team did not deserve to win even a second rate ICC trophy. England and India should be killing themselves for having off-days against this awful team.
 
Best bowling Lineup can't even take a single wicket...

Edit: Malik just took one
 
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Mamoon said:
One of the biggest flukes in history. This third rate team did not deserve to win even a second rate ICC trophy. England and India should be killing themselves for having off-days against this awful team.
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For some reason, I have a feeling that Pakistan might have a another fluke in the Asia Cup Final if somehow Pakistan qualifies for the final.
 
There are a couple of players living off the Champions Trophy win and have been very average since that tournament.

There are also a couple of players for whom the Champions Trophy win really went to their heads and they actually believe that they are already superstars.

They are all coming crashing to earth now.
 
Saj said:
There are a couple of players living off the Champions Trophy win and have been very average since that tournament.

There are also a couple of players for whom the Champions Trophy win really went to their heads and they actually believe that they are already superstars.

They are all coming crashing to earth now.
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Lol, I wonder who made that prediction that Pakistan is a 2019 WC favorite. Pakistan barely qualified for that 2017 CT, yes we deserved to win that tournament which was no fluke but sometimes these tournaments are also about getting momentum, confidence and peaking at the right time. But on average this is a very ordinary Pakistani team which is still playing a very out dated brand of cricket compared to the Big 5 and I have solid question marks on whether Micky Arthur and the selectors wasted all this time in selecting players and persisting with players during the one soft year we have had playing against soft teams, minnows like Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe who are just not the right fit for modern ODI and T-20 Cricket.
 
Forget Champiobs Trophy ... How much harm Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe are often doing to Pakistan is unimaginable..
 
ct win -did it harm pak

Dear brothers

I am indian fan but have always loved great pak batters and bowlers. Its fair to saythat wasim has inspired an entire genration of indian bowlers.

I did feel that champons trophy win was as much as pak win as indian captain coach loose all saga(bad decisions etc)

Its sad to see this team loose to bangladesh whom i have neverrated too high just cos they have never produced any decent cricketer -yes one or two good ones but as a team they are just about better then zimbabwe but think they are australians in asia

please share your thoughts- i truly wish pak comes back to top 5 where they should belong (india, aus, sa and pak along with england)
 
Uhmmm NO. Winning an icc trophy is very unique. It lifted PAK cricket and the nation. Its a pitty the team did not carry that momentum forward. Everything was there to go big!
 
feel that pak lack of exposure to big teams is the issue . they need to stop playing zimbabwe etc cos it just gives u wrong ideas about talent

a 50 against india in chenna or 50 against aussie at perth is more imp than a 200 against zimbabwe
 
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