Did Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis waste a lot of their peak in County cricket?

[Slog]

Just take a look at this for comparison purposes


The number of extra matches Wasim and Waqar played in domestics (mostly county cricket) compared to the 2 other top bowlers of the 90s and early 2000s is insane. I mean we know that they played relatiely few matches together.

Since Waqar's debut to the 2 W's retirements in 2003, Pakistan played a total of 111 Test matches Today and these 2 only played 61 of these Tests together

So the question is.

Did 2 Ws waste a lot of their peak and run out their miles in county cricket?

 

[Moiza]

Well wasim akram says his greatness was due to him playing county and advises every youngster to do so.

 

[Slog]

Well wasim akram says his greatness was due to him playing county and advises every youngster to do so.

obviously it played a role

what im saying is that it seemed there was overkill

i think for 10-12 years both Wasim and Waqar played every county season. (summers where Pak toured england asides)

That surely is too much

 

[Mainul]

Waqar got injured due to overuse of him by his county side.He was phenomenal for Glamorgan.Used to take 80, 90 wickets per season.Pakistan didn't utilize him to his full capacity.

 

[Zaz]

Not only fc cricket but pakistan played a lot of meaningless n excessive odi series/matches in the 90s which the 2 Ws were flogged in

If only the 2 were managed better and sat out more/ rested maybe they wouldnt have had the injury issues etc and wouldve done even better

Ive said it before and i ll say it again the two ws peak was kinda wasted in terms of the no of tests they played when you compare with other bowlers who came after them and played more tests

During this era pakistan concentrated on odis on the back of the 92 WC win which in hindsight was a mistake

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Pattinson, Cummins, & Bond have bounced back from stress fractures of Back with the same speeds as before.


While Waqar slowed down 10-15 kph and Zahid's career ended due to back injury.


The Reason for Waqar playing less Tests is that He declined after 1994 and further declined after 1997-1998. So he was replaced by Shoaib, Razzaq and Azhar in the playing eleven. Had he not got that Injury or if he could have made comeback with same Speed than He would have matched Warne & McGrath in the wickets column. Also he might have touched 160kph at the age of 28-30.


For County Cricket 133 to 142 kph Waqar was still good enough with the available swing and bowling mind. Not that much for Flat decks of Asia.



Wasim Akram missed around 20-40 Tests due to controversies.



Lastly in the same Era Pakistan would have played 20 % less Tests than Australia so Wasim Waqar had more time to play highly paid domestic Fc Cricket as compared to McGrath.

 

[Junaids]

Waqar got injured due to overuse of him by his county side.He was phenomenal for Glamorgan.Used to take 80, 90 wickets per season.Pakistan didn't utilize him to his full capacity.

No, he didn't.

I am from Manchester - so a Lancashire fan - which is where Wasim Akram played.

But from 1987-1994 I was at university in London, and so I saw almost all of Waqar's Surrey career.

And I'm sure that [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] would agree with the following points......

1. It was county cricket which took in three rough diamonds in the form of Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis and allowed them to hone their skills in good conditions against a range of batsmen on a range of wickets. They would have been Javagal Srinath without this.

2. Waqar's stress fractures to the back came about not after the English county season but after a series at home against Sri Lanka in 1991-92. He took 16 wickets at 17.43 in a 4 man pace attack with Wasim Akram, Aaqib Javed and Saleem Jaffer while the fifth quick - Imran Khan - didn't even bowl.

But Imran had been warning him for nearly two years that he was trying to bowl too fast and would get injured. And he did - straight before the World Cup (which Pakistan won anyway).

For the rest of Waqar's career he operated at lower pace - from 1992-1996 generally around 140K with occasional deliveries back over 150K to shock the batsman.

I had watched Waqar play against Aaqib's Hampshire the previous summer at The Oval. Waqar took 6-45 and 6-47, and bowled less than 20 overs in both innings. In spite of that, the skipper Ian Greig repeatedly told him to take it easy, because he was sprinting in from his long run.

This is why Waqar got so annoyed with Shoaib Akhtar when he famously told him to "shut up and bowl".

Waqar had ignored Imran Khan and Ian Greig and Wasim Akram's advice early in his career to bowl within himself, but he took it from 1993 onwards. But Shoaib thought he knew better.

Incidentally, Wasim Akram's long-term groin injury didn't come from Lancashire either. He got it late on the 1987 tour of England and was advised to have 6 months off.

But them Imran refused to play in the return series in Pakistan 3 months later, and Wasim was pressured to play because Pakistan was putting together a long unbeaten series sequence.

And then, six months later, he played with that injury in the World Championship series in the West Indies, often bowling off five paces with Saleem Yousaf standing up to the stumps, notably in the Port of Spain Test.

So neither player's long-term injury was Made in Manchester or Made in Surrey.

It's a myth. And I'd never heard it until today.

 

[Mainul]

No, he didn't.

I am from Manchester - so a Lancashire fan - which is where Wasim Akram played.

But from 1987-1994 I was at university in London, and so I saw almost all of Waqar's Surrey career.

And I'm sure that [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] would agree with the following points......

1. It was county cricket which took in three rough diamonds in the form of Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis and allowed them to hone their skills in good conditions against a range of batsmen on a range of wickets. They would have been Javagal Srinath without this.

2. Waqar's stress fractures to the back came about not after the English county season but after a series at home against Sri Lanka in 1991-92. He took 16 wickets at 17.43 in a 4 man pace attack with Wasim Akram, Aaqib Javed and Saleem Jaffer while the fifth quick - Imran Khan - didn't even bowl.

But Imran had been warning him for nearly two years that he was trying to bowl too fast and would get injured. And he did - straight before the World Cup (which Pakistan won anyway).

For the rest of Waqar's career he operated at lower pace - from 1992-1996 generally around 140K with occasional deliveries back over 150K to shock the batsman.

I had watched Waqar play against Aaqib's Hampshire the previous summer at The Oval. Waqar took 6-45 and 6-47, and bowled less than 20 overs in both innings. In spite of that, the skipper Ian Greig repeatedly told him to take it easy, because he was sprinting in from his long run.

This is why Waqar got so annoyed with Shoaib Akhtar when he famously told him to "shut up and bowl".

Waqar had ignored Imran Khan and Ian Greig and Wasim Akram's advice early in his career to bowl within himself, but he took it from 1993 onwards. But Shoaib thought he knew better.

Incidentally, Wasim Akram's long-term groin injury didn't come from Lancashire either. He got it late on the 1987 tour of England and was advised to have 6 months off.

But them Imran refused to play in the return series in Pakistan 3 months later, and Wasim was pressured to play because Pakistan was putting together a long unbeaten series sequence.

And then, six months later, he played with that injury in the World Championship series in the West Indies, often bowling off five paces with Saleem Yousaf standing up to the stumps, notably in the Port of Spain Test.

So neither player's long-term injury was Made in Manchester or Made in Surrey.

It's a myth. And I'd never heard it until today.

Waqar got his stress fracture diagnosed late in 1991 before world cup which started in February in 1992.In 1991 he played his first county season for Surrey and bowled his heart out with shearing pace and surprised everyone with taking 113 wickets in that first class season.That was a major contributing factor i think for his stress fracture.


Whatever, thanks for your informative post.

 

[MMHS]

Without County Cricket, WY would have been a slight better version of Md. Sami & Wasim a better version of Salim Jafar.

And, without County Cricket, PAK's cricket history would have been inferior to NZ or even SRL.

 

[MMHS]

No, he didn't.

I am from Manchester - so a Lancashire fan - which is where Wasim Akram played.

But from 1987-1994 I was at university in London, and so I saw almost all of Waqar's Surrey career.

And I'm sure that [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] would agree with the following points......

1. It was county cricket which took in three rough diamonds in the form of Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis and allowed them to hone their skills in good conditions against a range of batsmen on a range of wickets. They would have been Javagal Srinath without this.

2. Waqar's stress fractures to the back came about not after the English county season but after a series at home against Sri Lanka in 1991-92. He took 16 wickets at 17.43 in a 4 man pace attack with Wasim Akram, Aaqib Javed and Saleem Jaffer while the fifth quick - Imran Khan - didn't even bowl.

But Imran had been warning him for nearly two years that he was trying to bowl too fast and would get injured. And he did - straight before the World Cup (which Pakistan won anyway).

For the rest of Waqar's career he operated at lower pace - from 1992-1996 generally around 140K with occasional deliveries back over 150K to shock the batsman.

I had watched Waqar play against Aaqib's Hampshire the previous summer at The Oval. Waqar took 6-45 and 6-47, and bowled less than 20 overs in both innings. In spite of that, the skipper Ian Greig repeatedly told him to take it easy, because he was sprinting in from his long run.

This is why Waqar got so annoyed with Shoaib Akhtar when he famously told him to "shut up and bowl".

Waqar had ignored Imran Khan and Ian Greig and Wasim Akram's advice early in his career to bowl within himself, but he took it from 1993 onwards. But Shoaib thought he knew better.

Incidentally, Wasim Akram's long-term groin injury didn't come from Lancashire either. He got it late on the 1987 tour of England and was advised to have 6 months off.

But them Imran refused to play in the return series in Pakistan 3 months later, and Wasim was pressured to play because Pakistan was putting together a long unbeaten series sequence.

And then, six months later, he played with that injury in the World Championship series in the West Indies, often bowling off five paces with Saleem Yousaf standing up to the stumps, notably in the Port of Spain Test.

So neither player's long-term injury was Made in Manchester or Made in Surrey.

It's a myth. And I'd never heard it until today.

It's opposite boss - without County, just from physical readyness, WW won't survived more than 6/7 years - Shoaib didn't, neither Zahid, Amir Nazir, Jafar or Nadim (?) Khan (this guy was as fast as anyone) & Khan would have been Imran Khan Sr.

This is just physical aspect - in terms of bowling intelligence or skill or setting up batsmen - to understand "what might have been" - you have to look at Md. Sami & Wahab Riaz ...............

 

[Slog]

It's opposite boss - without County, just from physical readyness, WW won't survived more than 6/7 years - Shoaib didn't, neither Zahid, Amir Nazir, Jafar or Nadim (?) Khan (this guy was as fast as anyone) & Khan would have been Imran Khan Sr.

This is just physical aspect - in terms of bowling intelligence or skill or setting up batsmen - to understand "what might have been" - you have to look at Md. Sami & Wahab Riaz ...............

There is a thing called natural talent

It is laughable that you think Wasim and Waqar had same baseline talent as Sami, Wahab etc. and brings into doubt credibility of your posts

Yes ofcourse the county cricket spells had a massive role in their development

But my point here is that they over did it.

Post 93/94 they were developed enough to not need to play full seasons of county cricket every season.

As shown by the numbers in OP they put in 20-25% more games in these FC matches than players like McGrath and Pollock. These games inevitably have wear and tear

 

[MMHS]

There is a thing called natural talent

It is laughable that you think Wasim and Waqar had same baseline talent as Sami, Wahab etc. and brings into doubt credibility of your posts

Yes ofcourse the county cricket spells had a massive role in their development

But my point here is that they over did it.

Post 93/94 they were developed enough to not need to play full seasons of county cricket every season.

As shown by the numbers in OP they put in 20-25% more games in these FC matches than players like McGrath and Pollock. These games inevitably have wear and tear

You can laugh all you want, but truth is, Sami had everything as a 20 years old debutante that Waquar had - more over he was fitter, but he didn't go to Counties for 2001 season, like WY did in 1989-90. Wahab's debut Test won a Test at Oval - but since then, he hasn't moved an inch from a potential fast bowler. Natural talent is absolute nonsense - there are many, many kids who can swing the ball or bowl fast. In a country of 170 mn, if a game is religiously followed by most, there will be several exceptional talent at 13, 14 or 15 years of age - the difference is from talented youngster at 15, how they transform in to pro sportsman at 23. Umar Akmal's debut Test was better than anyone in history of PAK cricket - but unlike Zaheer or Javed or Mazid, he didn't groom in a professional system. McGrath & Pollock learned their game from their system, which had less matches - doesn't matter if they played in Counties or not. For WW - it was a difference like village kids coming to metro.

PAK's cricket history is built on 4 decades - 50s, 70s, 80s & 90s. That 50s team was full of players groomed in excellent British Indian FC System of Punjab, Sindh, Lahore, Karachi or Muslims (& the Colleges run by British administration) - almost everyone, from Karder, Wazir, Iftekhar Fazal, Khan Md. .. to even teenager Hanif started their career in that system. After they retired, in 60s it went to the level of losing home Series against NZ in 1969. But, to their great fortune, that 1968 English tour had few young players - Asif, Mazid, Sadiq, Mushtaq, Sarfraz..... & that started the legacy. The truth is, Mazid Khan & Asif Iqbal was identified as "Naturally ********" medium pacers, converted into world class batsman in Counties. After, 3 decades, ECB started to restrict foreign players in late 90s - since than PAK is comfortably behind SRL in terms of achievement for 15+ years now & arguably behind NZ as well.

You'll be fooling yourself to think that there was natural Talunt only in 50s, 70s, 80s & 90s - but TALUNT died in 60s & in last 10-15 years. Top class Pro-sportsman are not mango that you shake the tree & couple will drop on your lap - if the breed is good by chance, your mango will be sweet.

 

[Slog]

You can laugh all you want, but truth is, Sami had everything as a 20 years old debutante that Waquar had - more over he was fitter, but he didn't go to Counties for 2001 season, like WY did in 1989-90. Wahab's debut Test won a Test at Oval - but since then, he hasn't moved an inch from a potential fast bowler. Natural talent is absolute nonsense - there are many, many kids who can swing the ball or bowl fast. In a country of 170 mn, if a game is religiously followed by most, there will be several exceptional talent at 13, 14 or 15 years of age - the difference is from talented youngster at 15, how they transform in to pro sportsman at 23. Umar Akmal's debut Test was better than anyone in history of PAK cricket - but unlike Zaheer or Javed or Mazid, he didn't groom in a professional system. McGrath & Pollock learned their game from their system, which had less matches - doesn't matter if they played in Counties or not. For WW - it was a difference like village kids coming to metro.

PAK's cricket history is built on 4 decades - 50s, 70s, 80s & 90s. That 50s team was full of players groomed in excellent British Indian FC System of Punjab, Sindh, Lahore, Karachi or Muslims (& the Colleges run by British administration) - almost everyone, from Karder, Wazir, Iftekhar Fazal, Khan Md. .. to even teenager Hanif started their career in that system. After they retired, in 60s it went to the level of losing home Series against NZ in 1969. But, to their great fortune, that 1968 English tour had few young players - Asif, Mazid, Sadiq, Mushtaq, Sarfraz..... & that started the legacy. The truth is, Mazid Khan & Asif Iqbal was identified as "Naturally ********" medium pacers, converted into world class batsman in Counties. After, 3 decades, ECB started to restrict foreign players in late 90s - since than PAK is comfortably behind SRL in terms of achievement for 15+ years now & arguably behind NZ as well.

You'll be fooling yourself to think that there was natural Talunt only in 50s, 70s, 80s & 90s - but TALUNT died in 60s & in last 10-15 years. Top class Pro-sportsman are not mango that you shake the tree & couple will drop on your lap - if the breed is good by chance, your mango will be sweet.

Umm Sami did have a full season in county cricket at Kent...

 

[MMHS]

Umm Sami did have a full season in county cricket at Kent...

Not only Kent, I am sure he has played for Sussex as well, but not sure how many FC matches he played for them. Also, Sami must haven't gone to Counties before 2003 season, when his learning curve was almost finished - he must have been 25-26 by then. Ideally, he should have gone to Counties for 2001 season for few years.

That's why I said WY would have been slightly better version of Sami, for his natural skills; but County cricket made him what he is today.

 

[Slog]

Not only Kent, I am sure he has played for Sussex as well, but not sure how many FC matches he played for them. Also, Sami must haven't gone to Counties before 2003 season, when his learning curve was almost finished - he must have been 25-26 by then. Ideally, he should have gone to Counties for 2001 season for few years.

That's why I said WY would have been slightly better version of Sami, for his natural skills; but County cricket made him what he is today.

Let's assume you're correct here

You are still missing the point

Point of thread is that the 2 Ws overdid the county scene. They played full seasons of county cricket till 2000 almost (asides from years with England tours). I think they had developed enough to have not to put their bodies through that right post 93/94.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I wish current Pakistani cricketers could play as much county cricket as they did.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Let's assume you're correct here

You are still missing the point

Point of thread is that the 2 Ws overdid the county scene. They played full seasons of county cricket till 2000 almost (asides from years with England tours). I think they had developed enough to have not to put their bodies through that right post 93/94.

It's kind of similar to playing in T20 leagues these days. Players had to make more money.

 

[MMHS]

Let's assume you're correct here

You are still missing the point

Point of thread is that the 2 Ws overdid the county scene. They played full seasons of county cricket till 2000 almost (asides from years with England tours). I think they had developed enough to have not to put their bodies through that right post 93/94.

It doesn't work like that - the game evolves. It's not that they learnt the game for 2 years & that's it. Also, they kept their body in much better shape by playing in Counties - stress fracture for a pacer is not new, even without playing Counties, Lillee's career was almost over. Fast bowling is a different skill - one can only increase durability in match condition by playing.

Also, you have to consider that PCB introduced Central Contract probably 5/6 years back - before that, it was almost per match payment, without any revenue sharing from price money, guarantee money or brand marketing. Players have to earn from their prime few years. Their work load was an issue, but that was PCB's problem; not players - bowlers like Zahid was wasted by PCB, which I believe could have been saved had he gone to Counties. I am sure, Counties have taken much better care of WW's body & work-load than PCB did for Zahid.

 

[Napa]

It's kind of similar to playing in T20 leagues these days. Players had to make more money.

I agree. County cricket was about the only option for SC cricketers to make a decent amount of money before the T20s came along.

 

[Slog]

I agree. County cricket was about the only option for SC cricketers to make a decent amount of money before the T20s came along.

counties take a lot of you

 

[Slog]

Without County Cricket, WY would have been a slight better version of Md. Sami & Wasim a better version of Salim Jafar.

And, without County Cricket, PAK's cricket history would have been inferior to NZ or even SRL.

Lol not true

 

[moghul]

No, he didn't.

I am from Manchester - so a Lancashire fan - which is where Wasim Akram played.

But from 1987-1994 I was at university in London, and so I saw almost all of Waqar's Surrey career.

And I'm sure that [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] would agree with the following points......

1. It was county cricket which took in three rough diamonds in the form of Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis and allowed them to hone their skills in good conditions against a range of batsmen on a range of wickets. They would have been Javagal Srinath without this.

2. Waqar's stress fractures to the back came about not after the English county season but after a series at home against Sri Lanka in 1991-92. He took 16 wickets at 17.43 in a 4 man pace attack with Wasim Akram, Aaqib Javed and Saleem Jaffer while the fifth quick - Imran Khan - didn't even bowl.

But Imran had been warning him for nearly two years that he was trying to bowl too fast and would get injured. And he did - straight before the World Cup (which Pakistan won anyway).

For the rest of Waqar's career he operated at lower pace - from 1992-1996 generally around 140K with occasional deliveries back over 150K to shock the batsman.

I had watched Waqar play against Aaqib's Hampshire the previous summer at The Oval. Waqar took 6-45 and 6-47, and bowled less than 20 overs in both innings. In spite of that, the skipper Ian Greig repeatedly told him to take it easy, because he was sprinting in from his long run.

This is why Waqar got so annoyed with Shoaib Akhtar when he famously told him to "shut up and bowl".

Waqar had ignored Imran Khan and Ian Greig and Wasim Akram's advice early in his career to bowl within himself, but he took it from 1993 onwards. But Shoaib thought he knew better.

Incidentally, Wasim Akram's long-term groin injury didn't come from Lancashire either. He got it late on the 1987 tour of England and was advised to have 6 months off.

But them Imran refused to play in the return series in Pakistan 3 months later, and Wasim was pressured to play because Pakistan was putting together a long unbeaten series sequence.

And then, six months later, he played with that injury in the World Championship series in the West Indies, often bowling off five paces with Saleem Yousaf standing up to the stumps, notably in the Port of Spain Test.

So neither player's long-term injury was Made in Manchester or Made in Surrey.

It's a myth. And I'd never heard it until today.

Lovely post, with detailed description of Waqar's country stint.

Wasim reportedly was told by his physician not to bowl round the wicket for 6 months , including a country season to recover fully from his groin injury but he did not follow the advice , hence aggravated the injury.

 

[Savak]

County Cricket was like the IPL back then. The PCB is to be blamed, they should have been a lot firmer and refused to issue them NOC's regardless of their stature

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Yes, they did. Particularly Waqar, who had no business playing that many games bowling at that pace. I remember Waqar mentioning that he played 12 practice games in England before the 92 tour even began which is ridiculous.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Not sure about Wasim . He played a lot of cricket but he did not try to bowl flat out quick in every match at any time in his career. Bowled well within himself for the vast majority of his international matches and I assume it was no different in CC. Waqar's workload was in dire need of management considering the speeds he bowled at.

 

[Markhor]

Yes, they did. Particularly Waqar, who had no business playing that many games bowling at that pace. I remember Waqar mentioning that he played 12 practice games in England before the 92 tour even began which is ridiculous.

That was IIRC because there was some sort of sponsors challenge whereby if you won all the side matches vs the counties, there was a big cash prize.

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] I concur. CC is the finishing school. Top talent comes here and gets the discipline, and knowledge of different types of wicket.

 

[re82h]

I personally don't think Wasim and Waqar wasted their peak in county cricket.

However one bowler i always felt got wasted and ill managed was Saqlain Mushtaq. He was bowled into the ground in county cricket. Could have and should have been managed better by PCB.

 

[jnaveen1980]

County cricket helped Zaheer khan a lot. He became a changed man after his county stint. Became a much smarter bowler. But he didn't play that long IIRC.

 

[Savak]

County cricket helped Zaheer khan a lot. He became a changed man after his county stint. Became a much smarter bowler. But he didn't play that long IIRC.

2-3 years max in county cricket is enough. The problem with the W's was they played 6-7 years too many in county cricket and the work load contributed to Waqars quick demise

 

[Saj]

They never put County first.

Always made themselves available for their country unless unfit.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

They never put County first.

Always made themselves available for their country unless unfit.

Their country didn't pay or play enough so they had to play County.

 

[Saj]

Their country didn't pay or play enough so they had to play County.

The point is they never put County before Country.

 

[Savak]

The point is they never put County before Country.

This is not true. In every season they played county, they made themselves unavailable for Pakistan during the summer and the PCB had to select alternatives.

They wasted far too many miles in county cricket than was necessary and those miles should have been reserved for Pakistan Cricket instead

 

[Majid Khan]

Another thing to bear in mind when comparing Ws with McGrath/Pollock is the rarity of playing 5 match test series for Pakistan, as for great fast bowlers when in rythym and peak form as we saw in Pak v Eng 1992, they would have taken stacks of wickets between them in 5 match series time and again. Look also at what Imran did v India in 81, might not have been the same if that was a 2 or 3 match test series.

 

[ElRaja]

your being extremely selective with your stats... why not look at other top fast bowlers of the there era

bowler - tests - fc games - ratio
allan donald -> 72 - 316 - 23%
courtney walsh -> 132 - 429 - 31%
curtley ambrose -> 98 - 239 - 41%
craig mcdermot -> 71 - 174 - 41%
angus fraser -> 49 - 290 - 17%
srinath -> 67 - 147 - 46%
vaas -> 111 - 227 - 49%
gillespie -> 71 - 189 - 38%
cairns -> 62 - 217 - 29%

waqar and wasims ratio of tests to total games was perfectly normal, if anything pollock and mcgrath were the major outiers, walsh and ambrose proved if u have the fitness its not a problem, they both were going fairly strong at retirement.

its only the advent of t20s in the last ten years, and the big money being made by the big 3 teams allowing them to play players handsomely for tests which has allowed bowlers to reduce their fc workload and still get paid.

if anything, as mentioned ealier it was useless odis that took a larger toll of the two Ws

 

[Savak]

your being extremely selective with your stats... why not look at other top fast bowlers of the there era

bowler - tests - fc games - ratio
allan donald -> 72 - 316 - 23%
courtney walsh -> 132 - 429 - 31%
curtley ambrose -> 98 - 239 - 41%
craig mcdermot -> 71 - 174 - 41%
angus fraser -> 49 - 290 - 17%
srinath -> 67 - 147 - 46%
vaas -> 111 - 227 - 49%
gillespie -> 71 - 189 - 38%
cairns -> 62 - 217 - 29%

waqar and wasims ratio of tests to total games was perfectly normal, if anything pollock and mcgrath were the major outiers, walsh and ambrose proved if u have the fitness its not a problem, they both were going fairly strong at retirement.

its only the advent of t20s in the last ten years, and the big money being made by the big 3 teams allowing them to play players handsomely for tests which has allowed bowlers to reduce their fc workload and still get paid.

if anything, as mentioned ealier it was useless odis that took a larger toll of the two Ws

You have to consider other factors too. Waqar had a very punishing action and the pace he used to operate at. It was imperative his workload was managed like the Australians do with their pace attack.

Wasims workload and progression was fine, in fact I would argue that diabetes perhaps caused him problems at the end of his career. His economy never suffered but his ability to run through teams did on average, teams were happy to see him out and go after the others

 

[tyron_woodley]

Waqar got injured due to overuse of him by his county side.He was phenomenal for Glamorgan.Used to take 80, 90 wickets per season.Pakistan didn't utilize him to his full capacity.

shows you how good he was. Even when he wasn't at his best he was still lethal.

 

[Slog]

your being extremely selective with your stats... why not look at other top fast bowlers of the there era

bowler - tests - fc games - ratio
allan donald -> 72 - 316 - 23%
courtney walsh -> 132 - 429 - 31%
curtley ambrose -> 98 - 239 - 41%
craig mcdermot -> 71 - 174 - 41%
angus fraser -> 49 - 290 - 17%
srinath -> 67 - 147 - 46%
vaas -> 111 - 227 - 49%
gillespie -> 71 - 189 - 38%
cairns -> 62 - 217 - 29%

waqar and wasims ratio of tests to total games was perfectly normal, if anything pollock and mcgrath were the major outiers, walsh and ambrose proved if u have the fitness its not a problem, they both were going fairly strong at retirement.

its only the advent of t20s in the last ten years, and the big money being made by the big 3 teams allowing them to play players handsomely for tests which has allowed bowlers to reduce their fc workload and still get paid.

if anything, as mentioned ealier it was useless odis that took a larger toll of the two Ws

Allan Donald is a very poor example since a large chunk of his early first class cricket was due to apartheid bans. Similarly Fraser and McDermott weren’t national team regulars for >75% of their career so there were seasons where they played FC seasons but not international cricket which would decrease the percentage

 

[ElRaja]

Allan Donald is a very poor example since a large chunk of his early first class cricket was due to apartheid bans.

he played 70 tests in 10 years, if he even played 20 more tests and 30 less first class games in 3 more years if he debuted earlier his ratio wouldn't be close to 50%.

the point u made was that the amount of county cricket the two w's played compared to other fast bowlers was insane, it wasn't.

Similarly Fraser and McDermott weren’t national team regulars for >75% of their career so there were seasons where they played FC seasons but not international cricket which would decrease the percentage

mcdermott was the third highest test wicket taker over the 10 years he played, played more tests than any other aussie quick and he played way more odi cricket than most fast bowlers of his era. the tests he did miss were primarily due to injury not cos he was dropped and playing FC.

fraser is an anomoly, but thats why his ratio is so low. just like mcgrath is an anomoly with a very high raito.

 

[PakLFC]

County Cricket made them the bowlers they became. Great English Footballers wouldn't have represented their country had they not performed well for their clubs. They all learnt their basics playing for their clubs.

 

[IMMY69]

Waqar and Wasim were both on very big money at the time plus International cricket was played seasonally and there were far fewer games. Test matches even had a rest day.

You would hardly get any matches involving Pakistan during the summer (June to September) unless it was a series in England.
South Africa didn't even come in to play until 1992/1993 so one less country to play international cricket against. Sri Lanka were still a minnow and Bangladesh were associate level.

County cricket gave a lot to both these players and they gave back in equal measure.

 

[Saj]

This is not true. In every season they played county, they made themselves unavailable for Pakistan during the summer and the PCB had to select alternatives.

They wasted far too many miles in county cricket than was necessary and those miles should have been reserved for Pakistan Cricket instead

Any examples?

 

[Junaids]

This is not true. In every season they played county, they made themselves unavailable for Pakistan during the summer and the PCB had to select alternatives.

They wasted far too many miles in county cricket than was necessary and those miles should have been reserved for Pakistan Cricket instead

Pakistan didn't play any international cricket during the English season, and neither Wasim Akram nor Waqar Younis ever made themselves unavailable for either a Test or an ODI due to English commitments.

The latest Test that I can ever recall was the Third test at Barbados in late April 1988. Wasim Akram and Imran Khan both played - Waqar Younis did not debut for Pakistan until 18 months later.

Wasim Akram's appearance in the Barbados Test delayed his county championship debut for Lancashire, which became the Nottinghamshire match on 5 May 1988. He missed the first two matches of the season because of international duty with Pakistan.

 

[Junaids]

By the way [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION].

What makes you think that the players somehow "belonged" to Pakistan? They got the best medical care and the least abusive match scheduling when they played for their English counties. Wasim Akram would have retired in 1989 with his groin injury had it not been managed and treated properly at Lancashire.

County cricket is where they learned the right lines and lengths to bowl in Test and limited overs cricket on a wide range of surfaces. If only Mitchell Starc would bother to play a full red ball season he might learn to harness his natural gifts and become an international class Test bowler.

The one Pakistan fast bowler who did repeatedly refuse to play for Pakistan was Imran Khan, who refused to play at home in August or September as he felt the heat would destroy a fast bowler, and he also flatly refused to play any home series on the sort of surfaces served up nowadays in the UAE.

And he was right.

 

[tyron_woodley]

By the way [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION].

What makes you think that the players somehow "belonged" to Pakistan? They got the best medical care and the least abusive match scheduling when they played for their English counties. Wasim Akram would have retired in 1989 with his groin injury had it not been managed and treated properly at Lancashire.

County cricket is where they learned the right lines and lengths to bowl in Test and limited overs cricket on a wide range of surfaces. If only Mitchell Starc would bother to play a full red ball season he might learn to harness his natural gifts and become an international class Test bowler.

The one Pakistan fast bowler who did repeatedly refuse to play for Pakistan was Imran Khan, who refused to play at home in August or September as he felt the heat would destroy a fast bowler, and he also flatly refused to play any home series on the sort of surfaces served up nowadays in the UAE.

And he was right.

when you are a GOAT bowler like imran you can do whatever the he'll you want.