Do people really realise how big an issue it is to lose Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq?

[IAJ]

Well, I know some posters here are eagerly waiting for their retirements, but their huge experience will be missed and an era will come to end. Both are living legends and if you look around the Test Arena today you will not find many with so many matches and class. These two, especially Younis reminds you of good old Test matches when Pakistan played with India etc. A very emotional moment this for me atleast.

 

[aloo paratha]

"but they didn't score outside Asia"

 

[Big Mac]

"but they didn't score outside Asia"

Exactly

Good riddance

 

[Mamoon]

Not an issue. Younis has failed in the 90% of the innings he has played outside Asia since 2016, and Misbah has never scored runs in Australia and South Africa. We will produce enough batsmen to pile up the runs in UAE/Asia. Batsmen like Miandad, Hanif, Zaheer, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, Majid, Inzamam and MoYo were replaced, and we will not die without Younis and Misbah - who is not better than any of those names.

People are overstating their importance. They couldn't do anything to prevent our record-breaking losing streak and have never won us any series in Australia, England and South Africa and never would have in a million years. Our strengths and weaknesses will remain put with our without them. It was a mediocre team before their retirement, and it will remain a mediocre team after their retirement.

Those who expect the team to go into free fall because of their retirement are in for a surprise. It reminds of the folks who thought that we will not be able to cross 200 in ODIs after Misbah retires. That notion has been blown into pieces because our batting has actually improved after his retirement. The overall combination matters, not one-two individuals.

 

[Syed1]

The team is bigger than any single player. Bigger and better players have come and gone before Younis and Misbah, did it stop us from competing? You lot are acting as if, if it wasn't for these two Pakistan would be floundering at number 9 or 10 in the test rankings.

 

[Mamoon]

People are acting as if we are losing players of the stature of Imran, Miandad, or Wasim. Younis and Misbah are good but they are not elite players, and entirely replaceable.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

All will realise that from the next series for sure. Great loss for Pak.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Well we have lost 6 matches in a row where these two seldom showed up , whats worse that can happen? We will keep losing , so be it. I will miss them but dont think we will do worse than we have done since england tour.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

The team is bigger than any single player. Bigger and better players have come and gone before Younis and Misbah, did it stop us from competing? You lot are acting as if, if it wasn't for these two Pakistan would be floundering at number 9 or 10 in the test rankings.

can happen without them.

 

[BD-fan]

The team is bigger than any single player. Bigger and better players have come and gone before Younis and Misbah, did it stop us from competing? You lot are acting as if, if it wasn't for these two Pakistan would be floundering at number 9 or 10 in the test rankings.

You misunderstood OP.

See SL. The replacement takes time to gain confidence and perform. There will be GROWING pain for sure. Previously, when the bigger and better batsmen retired, there was this Awesome bowling unit to pick up the slack. This unit miss that. Amir-Asif combo is no where to be found yet. It will also take time for Amir to comeback to his devastating form.

 

[Buffet]

It may impact for the next 1-2 years and then Pakistan will be fine.

 

[Mamoon]

You misunderstood OP.

See SL. The replacement takes time to gain confidence and perform. There will be GROWING pain for sure. Previously, when the bigger and better batsmen retired, there was this Awesome bowling unit to pick up the slack. This unit miss that. Amir-Asif combo is no where to be found yet. It will also take time for Amir to comeback to his devastating form.

SL team is overall weaker than the Pakistan team. Pakistan won't suffer as much as they did without the duo.

 

[Black Zero]

Cannot wait for them to go and appear in talk shows.

 

[Syed1]

You misunderstood OP.

See SL. The replacement takes time to gain confidence and perform. There will be GROWING pain for sure. Previously, when the bigger and better batsmen retired, there was this Awesome bowling unit to pick up the slack. This unit miss that. Amir-Asif combo is no where to be found yet. It will also take time for Amir to comeback to his devastating form.

The thing is YK and Misbah aren't even the best batsmen in the team on recent form. (Yes YK's record puts him on ATG list) but in the last year or so Azhar, Sarfaraz and often Asad have outperformed these two. Now if say Azhar was retiring then that would have been a MASSIVE hit to the test side.

The Amir-Asif analogy is false since they were out and out the best bowlers in the squad and country and hence it has taken a while to replace them. As explained in the para above, the situation is not the same for YK and Misbah.

 

[tauseef_mahmood]

#MisYou

 

[mhraja]

It's just too much media hype with #MisYou and so many Thank you hashtags. It hasn't ever happened in past when people like Wasim, Waqar and Inzamam retired so such questions weren't raised. And we can't hold these aging players for ever.

In my opinion it will freshen up the Test team and may actually be for our good.

 

[MRSN]

Not an issue. Younis has failed in the 90% of the innings he has played outside Asia since 2016, and Misbah has never scored runs in Australia and South Africa. We will produce enough batsmen to pile up the runs in UAE/Asia. Batsmen like Miandad, Hanif, Zaheer, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, Majid, Inzamam and MoYo were replaced, and we will not die without Younis and Misbah - who is not better than any of those names.

People are overstating their importance. They couldn't do anything to prevent our record-breaking losing streak and have never won us any series in Australia, England and South Africa and never would have in a million years. Our strengths and weaknesses will remain put with our without them. It was a mediocre team before their retirement, and it will remain a mediocre team after their retirement.

Those who expect the team to go into free fall because of their retirement are in for a surprise. It reminds of the folks who thought that we will not be able to cross 200 in ODIs after Misbah retires. That notion has been blown into pieces because our batting has actually improved after his retirement. The overall combination matters, not one-two individuals.

brilliant post I wish I could award you potw for this. This is the real Mamoon know. Not many people are going to digest such bitter truth about the reality of our team.

 

[tauseef_mahmood]

Yes, it will have an impact and a big one. We don't play all of our series overseas. We need players who give us a dominating position in favourable conditions. Against India, it will be a massive disadvantage (if we even play them). My personal opinion, if sarfraz makes captain and we replace Misbah and Younis with somebody other than Fawad Alam, Haris Sohail (if fit) or any other proven performer (not players like yamin etc.) it will be a major setback.

 

[MRSN]

As Mamoon said look at our ODI state..People predicted Pakistan will struggle to cross even 200 with Misbah not in the team and how it was great Misbah putting us through respectable defeats and saving us from thrashings. Now our ODI side regularly score 260+ and also has shown the ability to chase down big totals and it will only get better from here.

Pakistan should not have any problem producing batsmen who can negotiate fast bowlers on UAE pitches and can score 100s against spinners.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Younis will be a loss, but Misbah can easily be replaced as there should be no shortage of HTBs in Pakistan.

 

[Ultimate]

You just can't mention both in the same line. Younus is a legend, and will be missed more than Misbah.

 

[Mamoon]

brilliant post I wish I could award you potw for this. This is the real Mamoon know. Not many people are going to digest such bitter truth about the reality of our team.

Hide the next generation of batsmen in the UAE for years and people will understand the reality.

 

[dauntless]

I m gonna miss Younis for sure!
Misbah?? Definitely not!

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I will miss Younis Khan alot.

#Emotional

 

[Manager101]

Fawad Alam and Haris Sohail will be an upgrade to the middle-order if given consistent opportunity.

 

[zulfiqar]

People are acting as if we are losing players of the stature of Imran, Miandad, or Wasim. Younis and Misbah are good but they are not elite players, and entirely replaceable.

Though I am confident that the likes of Babar Azam & Fawad Alam will eventually step up, Younis & Misbah are in fact elite players in the Pakistani setup. Younis is the highest run-getter for his country, at a world-class batting average, and has won us plenty of games. Often I've seen posters' dislike for Younis Khan as an ODI bat (for whom I was vehemently against from the very start) affect his stature as an ATG Pakistani batsman.

It's a huge issue in the sense that we are losing a once-in-a-generation batsman from Pakistan in Younis Khan, and a captain who recorded an impressive # of wins and made UAE a fortress for Pakistan. Their achievements are impressive and won't be matched for at least another 6+ years by a Pakistani player. But will we survive? Of course we will! Always look at the future optimistically, as we have several nominees for carrying their mantle.

 

[darksher]

Good riddance as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hamza_]

Good riddance. We have collapsed many times with these oldies in the batting line up.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Carrying these two passengers is a bigger issue.

 

[shaz619]

Not an issue. Younis has failed in the 90% of the innings he has played outside Asia since 2016, and Misbah has never scored runs in Australia and South Africa. We will produce enough batsmen to pile up the runs in UAE/Asia. Batsmen like Miandad, Hanif, Zaheer, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, Majid, Inzamam and MoYo were replaced, and we will not die without Younis and Misbah - who is not better than any of those names.

People are overstating their importance. They couldn't do anything to prevent our record-breaking losing streak and have never won us any series in Australia, England and South Africa and never would have in a million years. Our strengths and weaknesses will remain put with our without them. It was a mediocre team before their retirement, and it will remain a mediocre team after their retirement.

Those who expect the team to go into free fall because of their retirement are in for a surprise. It reminds of the folks who thought that we will not be able to cross 200 in ODIs after Misbah retires. That notion has been blown into pieces because our batting has actually improved after his retirement. The overall combination matters, not one-two individuals.

At least we were ranked above Bangladesh, am sure you must be proud of the current ODI team who are struggling to qualify for the 2019 WC.

And to the other points we've gone around in circles debating them for months, weeks; we'll always agree to disagree on the importance of Khan and Misbah in that regard. I suppose we have superior prospects waiting in the wings which means we should belittle and underrate everything MisYou achieved.

 

[Big Mac]

At least we were ranked above Bangladesh, am sure you must be proud of the current ODI team who are struggling to qualify for the 2019 WC.

And to the other points we've gone around in circles debating them for months, weeks; we'll always agree to disagree on the importance of Khan and Misbah in that regard. I suppose we have superior prospects waiting in the wings which means we should belittle and underrate everything MisYou achieved.

You don't understand bruv, they're rubbish.

 

[shaz619]

You don't understand bruv, they're rubbish.

The world has been in awe of their contributions and are paying beautiful tributes, everyone apart from ungrateful and selfish pakistani's.

 

[Big Mac]

The world has been in awe of their contributions and are paying beautiful tributes, everyone apart from ungrateful and selfish pakistani's.

You don't get it though, the team is going to be much better without them holding the youngsters back.

Asad Shafiq

"Under Misbah's captaincy, the atmosphere in the dressing room has always been wonderful. In situations where regular people would panic, Misbah does not, and this is his biggest strength. His behaviour with junior players is exemplary and I am lucky to have played under him.

"In fact, both Misbah and Younis' role in my career is very important. When as a junior player you come to the team, you have been watching players like Misbah and Younis for a few years. Initially, you are nervous around them, because there is a culture - especially in Pakistan - that the difference between junior and senior players is very keenly felt. But their behaviour with the junior players is exemplary. Things that I would have learned in five-six years if Misbah and Younis hadn't been around, I ended up learning in two-three years. Not just me, but all the junior players who have come into the team have benefited as both batsmen and human beings.

 

[Mamoon]

At least we were ranked above Bangladesh, am sure you must be proud of the current ODI team who are struggling to qualify for the 2019 WC.

And to the other points we've gone around in circles debating them for months, weeks; we'll always agree to disagree on the importance of Khan and Misbah in that regard. I suppose we have superior prospects waiting in the wings which means we should belittle and underrate everything MisYou achieved.

Yes I was proud of Misbah's ODI team that was ranked 8th at the time of his retirement.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is saying and what others are trying to prove is completely irrelevant.

People are showing stats to show how important they are to the team.

But even if they are important, Mamoon's point is valid. Did they help the team change it's fortunes abroad in Australia , South Africa or NZ?

No.

If UAE bullying is enough to establish greatness of players than surely such spreadsheets and charts are valid.

But cricket is bigger than UAE.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Pakistan will do fine.
Maybe we will miss Younis on Asian pitches against spin but Fawad is a good enough player against spin for Asia.
Haris, Babar and (Usman) are/will be better against pace than Younis and Misbah.

Give the younguns some time. Every team goes through transition.

 

[Big Mac]

What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is saying and what others are trying to prove is completely irrelevant.

People are showing stats to show how important they are to the team.

But even if they are important, Mamoon's point is valid. Did they help the team change it's fortunes abroad in Australia , South Africa or NZ?

No.

If UAE bullying is enough to establish greatness of players than surely such spreadsheets and charts are valid.

But cricket is bigger than UAE.

Winning in Australia and South Africa is just a bonus. Worrying only about places that you visit once every six years is stupid and the mark of a post-colonial Desi inferiority complex where we can't function without validation from white folks.

We play our 'home' games in Asia, and of the remaining test nations three of them are on the subcontinent and a fourth (The Windies) play on many wickets that aren't too dissimilar to Asian wickets nowadays.

The English come to Asia, get battered out of sight and they don't go home moaning about how all of their players are useless. They just have a moan about the pitches and boast about how they'll destroy the Asian teams when they come to England. Meanwhile Pakistani fans act like the home victories don't count and try and act like we should be dominating everybody in completely foreign conditions.

 

[Abdullah719]

Winning in Australia and South Africa is just a bonus. Worrying only about places that you visit once every six years is stupid and the mark of a post-colonial Desi inferiority complex where we can't function without validation from white folks.

Not really. The reason why people want Pakistan to do well on overseas tours is because it's challenging. Why should we be content in our comfort zone? Has nothing to do with inferiority complex. Why is IK's drawn series in WI in the 80s considered such an achievement? Because they were the best side of the time, nothing to do with any inferiority complex. It's natural to want to compete with the best.

If England are seemingly happy with getting smashed in Asia continuously, that doesn't mean we should be content with similar results. We need to aim higher and keep looking to improve.

Replacing Misbah and Younis might be difficult in the short term but it's a necessary thing for the future.

 

[shaz619]

What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is saying and what others are trying to prove is completely irrelevant.

People are showing stats to show how important they are to the team.

But even if they are important, Mamoon's point is valid. Did they help the team change it's fortunes abroad in Australia , South Africa or NZ?

No.

If UAE bullying is enough to establish greatness of players than surely such spreadsheets and charts are valid.

But cricket is bigger than UAE.

How many Pakistan captain's have dethroned Australia and South Africa, what has our "home" record been like prior to Misbah taking over? when was the last time we did fairly well in England during a 4+ Test match series?

Bonus question for you Dr saab, when was the last time Pakistan reached no.1 in the Test rankings [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

Not really. The reason why people want Pakistan to do well on overseas tours is because it's challenging. Why should we be content in our comfort zone? Has nothing to do with inferiority complex. Why is IK's drawn series in WI in the 80s considered such an achievement? Because they were the best side of the time, nothing to do with any inferiority complex. It's natural to want to compete with the best.

If England are seemingly happy with getting smashed in Asia continuously, that doesn't mean we should be content with similar results. We need to aim higher and keep looking to improve.

Replacing Misbah and Younis might be difficult in the short term but it's a necessary thing for the future.

There is a big inferior complex because we've taken our proud UAE record for granted and overly rate home series wins of teams like Australia, England , India etc and it's not about being content, all pakistan fans want us to do better in foreign conditions but it's about having an appreciation for what we've achieved in the grand scheme whilst factoring in history

 

[Big Mac]

Not really. The reason why people want Pakistan to do well on overseas tours is because it's challenging. Why should we be content in our comfort zone? Has nothing to do with inferiority complex. Why is IK's drawn series in WI in the 80s considered such an achievement? Because they were the best side of the time, nothing to do with any inferiority complex. It's natural to want to compete with the best.

If England are seemingly happy with getting smashed in Asia continuously, that doesn't mean we should be content with similar results. We need to aim higher and keep looking to improve.

Replacing Misbah and Younis might be difficult in the short term but it's a necessary thing for the future.

It's not a question of not wanting to win in Australia but of recognising it for what it truly is, a cherry on top of the other achievements of this current side instead of something that invalidates everything that has happened over the last six or seven years.

 

[Abdullah719]

There is a big inferior complex because we've taken our proud UAE record for granted and overly rate home series wins of teams like Australia, England , India etc and it's not about being content, all pakistan fans want us to do better in foreign conditions but it's about having an appreciation for what we've achieved in the grand scheme whilst factoring in history

It's not a question of not wanting to win in Australia but of recognising it for what it truly is, a cherry on top of the other achievements of this current side instead of something that invalidates everything that has happened over the last six or seven years.

You can have appreciation for Misbah the captain and still criticise him for his failings, he isn't infallible.

I have frequently discussed the aspect of Pakistan's abysmal home record over the decade or so preceding the Lahore attacks and Misbah does deserve credit for his unbeaten run in UAE. Most people recognise this barring a few who don't wish to give him credit for anything at all.

 

[Big Mac]

And yes, there absolutely is an inferiority complex when it comes to Asian fans. We all have a tendency to overlook what our players have done in Asian conditions and focus only on their deficiencies in English/Australian conditions, while we don't apply the same standards to Western players even though they play in Asia a hell of a lot more than we play in England and Australia.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Well, I know some posters here are eagerly waiting for their retirements, but their huge experience will be missed and an era will come to end. Both are living legends and if you look around the Test Arena today you will not find many with so many matches and class. These two, especially Younis reminds you of good old Test matches when Pakistan played with India etc. A very emotional moment this for me atleast.

Chachoo I saw your lookalike applauding Azhar on his fifty .

Did you see ?

 

[shaz619]

And yes, there absolutely is an inferiority complex when it comes to Asian fans. We all have a tendency to overlook what our players have done in Asian conditions and focus only on their deficiencies in English/Australian conditions, while we don't apply the same standards to Western players even though they play in Asia a hell of a lot more than we play in England and Australia.

Has there even been such a long and dry spell from an England point of view when it comes to Test Series against Pakistan? they were dethroned twice in the UAE and failed to win a Test series against Pakistan in England as well

 

[shaz619]

You can have appreciation for Misbah the captain and still criticise him for his failings, he isn't infallible.

I have frequently discussed the aspect of Pakistan's abysmal home record over the decade or so preceding the Lahore attacks and Misbah does deserve credit for his unbeaten run in UAE. Most people recognise this barring a few who don't wish to give him credit for anything at all.

I agree with you, he isn't perfect but we should judge him objectively; like everyone else, no one is immune to criticism but people do go overboard with it when it comes to Misbah and tend to belittle his achievements.

 

[Haz95]

Younis will be very hard to replace. He's probably the one of the best batting partners for a batsman (youngster in particular) I've ever seen while Misbah the captain for keeping the dressing room poised will also be missed. Don't be surprised if you see more controversies and choking from the test team.

Having said that, Misbah the batsman will not be missed much nor will a past it, current Younis.

 

[shaz619]

Me and [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] are like the Younis Khan and Misbah of PP, when everyone is going over board with their criticisms of our hero's we are the only ones left standing tall back to back amidst all the fitnah swinging our blades like Mike Tyson did in the 80 taking each naysayer out within the first round

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Younis will be a big loss.

 

[aloo paratha]

Not really. The reason why people want Pakistan to do well on overseas tours is because it's challenging. Why should we be content in our comfort zone? Has nothing to do with inferiority complex. Why is IK's drawn series in WI in the 80s considered such an achievement? Because they were the best side of the time, nothing to do with any inferiority complex. It's natural to want to compete with the best.

If England are seemingly happy with getting smashed in Asia continuously, that doesn't mean we should be content with similar results. We need to aim higher and keep looking to improve.

Replacing Misbah and Younis might be difficult in the short term but it's a necessary thing for the future.

It's one thing to want to do well in all countries, I want that too, but it's another to not count any of the wins in Asia, what lots of people are doing.

 

[Khan12]

Misbah a big no and younis yes.

 

[Mamoon]

People unable to comprehend basic English as usual. It's not about downplaying runs in Asia; it's about the fact that neither Misbah nor Younis have been influential enough to win series overseas. Neither of them have had a dominant series in Australia, England or South Africa, so all this talk of our team struggling to win matches without them is utter nonsense.

Pakistan will not stop producing batsmen who can be prolific in Asia. We have produced such batsmen for over 60 years and we will continue to produce them for as long as we play cricket. Our batting will not end with Younis and Misbah. Those who think that our Test team will decline steeply and we will start losing series after series in Asia/UAE are being melodramatic. The retirement of Younis will marginally weaken our batting, but not enough to change the complexion of our team and the results.

 

[IAJ]

It's not about their recent form I am talking about. You need to look at the bigger picture. It's and era that is ending. Both started their first class career last century, how many of this kind do you have playing top class Test cricket today? They played with many greats of past. It's their presense and experience which will also be missed.

Of course better players in past have come and gone, but I felt sad when Imran Khan retired, when Miandad retired, when Wasim, Waqar, Anwar and Inzi to mention some retired and after so many years two more of pakistani legends are going.

Younis is a legend with his crazy average whereas Misbah took over a totally messed up team after fixing scandal.

I am no blind fan of any of the players but I show respect and appreciation where it's due. I have critisized both players many times here but now it's time to look at the bigger picture.

 

[IAJ]

Chachoo I saw your lookalike applauding Azhar on his fifty .

Did you see ?

No I must have missed that, just witnessed Babar's fifty though.

 

[idrizzy]

As much as it is a huge loss for Pakistan cricket, things will get brighter. I feel like after the old guard have gone, yes we'll be in a rebuilding phase but the team will step up. Sarfraz will lead them, tell them to be more positive and I feel that we'll get a fresh brand of test cricket. Thankfully we have talent to replace the duo, and their experience will be missed, but as the saying goes 'when one door closes, another one opens'.

You can look at the numbers, and they'll tell you how great both have been. At home we really have been a formidable side, with some memorable wins. But away from home against top teams hasn't been as gleeful other than recent successes vs Eng. Those who replace them will get experience with each test and the most important thing is that they'll improve; not regress (as Misbah and Younus have been slowly).

Sure the initial impact of both will be felt in the short term, but in the long term I can see a healthier, hungrier side that'll hopefully be able to compete against top sides on their turf (if we sort opening, #6 and a third bowler out and most importantly, if the team all step up after their departures).

 

[New Yorker]

Not an issue. Younis has failed in the 90% of the innings he has played outside Asia since 2016, and Misbah has never scored runs in Australia and South Africa. We will produce enough batsmen to pile up the runs in UAE/Asia. Batsmen like Miandad, Hanif, Zaheer, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, Majid, Inzamam and MoYo were replaced, and we will not die without Younis and Misbah - who is not better than any of those names.

People are overstating their importance. They couldn't do anything to prevent our record-breaking losing streak and have never won us any series in Australia, England and South Africa and never would have in a million years. Our strengths and weaknesses will remain put with our without them. It was a mediocre team before their retirement, and it will remain a mediocre team after their retirement.

Those who expect the team to go into free fall because of their retirement are in for a surprise. It reminds of the folks who thought that we will not be able to cross 200 in ODIs after Misbah retires. That notion has been blown into pieces because our batting has actually improved after his retirement. The overall combination matters, not one-two individuals.

A bileful pile-up of non-sequiturs and clumsy falsehoods if there ever was one.

"Younis has failed in the 90% of the innings he has played outside Asia since 2016."

Even if this assertion were true, and it is transparently not, what on earth
does it matter?

He's been a match winner with few equals in the past decade.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/1096962.html

In the last year alone, at the nadir of his powers, he scored a 175* in Australia and a series defining double ton in England.

You become a caricature of yourself when it comes to Younis.

 

[Speedster777]

I hope they don't take back their retirement. Their contribution amounts to nothing as we're a mediocre Test team despite their presence all these years. If anything, their retirements will finally end the era of mediocrity and we will get fresh blood under a proactive leader.

 

[Speedster777]

Younis might be remembered for leading us to victory in T20 WC but Misbah would be remembered as loser of mohali.

 

[New Yorker]

What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is saying and what others are trying to prove is completely irrelevant.

People are showing stats to show how important they are to the team.

But even if they are important, Mamoon's point is valid. Did they help the team change it's fortunes abroad in Australia , South Africa or NZ?

No.

If UAE bullying is enough to establish greatness of players than surely such spreadsheets and charts are valid.

But cricket is bigger than UAE.

Just stop with this UAE bullying nonsense. Anyone who can look up his stats knows it is just that

Auckland, NZ, 2001, YK 91 and 149* Pakistan wins
Port Elizabeth, SAF, YK 45 and 67*, top score in 2nd innings, Pakistan wins

 

[MMHS]

It'll be an issue; but PAK didn't stop after Jinnah or India after Nehru.

Players get older & they will be phased out, which is normal. PAK didn't have a transitional plan, therefore now it has come down to a level that team is struggling to replace 2 players in their mid 40s. And, this'll be a bigger problem if these 2 are replaced by Fawad & MoHa, because in a year or 2 time again PAK team will be stuck with 4 batsmen over 35.

This is the high time to bring at least 4 young batsmen in the set up - it's still 13 months before the next big tour (in UK) & then more or less regular series with tougher teams. Next 12 months, PAK's schedule is with SRL & probably BD/ZIMboks- this is best time to bring few young faces like Sami, Saud, Usman, Talat, Aga Salman, Amin, Haris & develop a batting lineup around Azhar. By next summer, PAK's Test lineup should be

1. Azhar,
2. Sami/Shehzad/Imam/Sharjeel
3. Babar
4. Amin/Haris
5. Haris/Usman/Asad
6. Batting All-rounder (Aga Sulman/Talat/Saud/Yamin....)
7. Sarfu
8. Amir
9. Yasir
10. Pacer (Abbas/Hasan)
11. Pacer/Spinner - depending on wicket & the batting all-rounder (Hamza/Rahat/Adil/Sameen/Ehtesham/Shadab/ Asghar....)

Going by Inzi's record, next year in U.K., I won't be surprised if Azhar opens with MoHa, while Fawad & Asif Zakir replacing these 2 in batting & Wahab, Gul, Irfan making a comeback.

 

[Square Drive]

Winning in Australia and South Africa is just a bonus. Worrying only about places that you visit once every six years is stupid and the mark of a post-colonial Desi inferiority complex where we can't function without validation from white folks.

We play our 'home' games in Asia, and of the remaining test nations three of them are on the subcontinent and a fourth (The Windies) play on many wickets that aren't too dissimilar to Asian wickets nowadays.

The English come to Asia, get battered out of sight and they don't go home moaning about how all of their players are useless. They just have a moan about the pitches and boast about how they'll destroy the Asian teams when they come to England. Meanwhile Pakistani fans act like the home victories don't count and try and act like we should be dominating everybody in completely foreign conditions.

Fantastic post.

Exactly my sentiments.

 

[UN talkz]

i still can't understand if these two aren't legends then who is.........
i mean people are still criticising misyou and just cant understand for what reason.....
imran, wasim, Miandad, inzi were all past......
and misyou in few days would also be past.....
wat is the point of comparing younis with imran or even Miandad.....
younis is widout any doubt the best test batsman to come out of Pakistan.....
if u can't PRAISE them then shut ur mouths but atleast don't speak NONSENSE....

 

[UN talkz]

The team is bigger than any single player. Bigger and better players have come and gone before Younis and Misbah, did it stop us from competing? You lot are acting as if, if it wasn't for these two Pakistan would be floundering at number 9 or 10 in the test rankings.

yes they surely would hav been.... check the stats at cricinfo and see the contributions of these two..... for the 1st time pak was because of these two walls consistently in the top 4....

 

[confused_amoeba]

All I would say is, thanks for your services, time for new blood.

Misbah is largely responsible for the defensive mindset we have in our team and mostly in our batsmen so he really needed to go.

YK, please, biggest FTB of all times.

Both dinosaurs who have lasted way beyond their usefulness.

 

[UN talkz]

The world has been in awe of their contributions and are paying beautiful tributes, everyone apart from ungrateful and selfish pakistani's.

may God bless these Pakistanis.

 

[UN talkz]

Though I am confident that the likes of Babar Azam & Fawad Alam will eventually step up, Younis & Misbah are in fact elite players in the Pakistani setup. Younis is the highest run-getter for his country, at a world-class batting average, and has won us plenty of games. Often I've seen posters' dislike for Younis Khan as an ODI bat (for whom I was vehemently against from the very start) affect his stature as an ATG Pakistani batsman.

It's a huge issue in the sense that we are losing a once-in-a-generation batsman from Pakistan in Younis Khan, and a captain who recorded an impressive # of wins and made UAE a fortress for Pakistan. Their achievements are impressive and won't be matched for at least another 6+ years by a Pakistani player. But will we survive? Of course we will! Always look at the future optimistically, as we have several nominees for carrying their mantle.

nobody is talking abt whether Pak team will survive or not it is abt how much we are gonna miss them......

 

[UN talkz]

What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is saying and what others are trying to prove is completely irrelevant.

People are showing stats to show how important they are to the team.

But even if they are important, Mamoon's point is valid. Did they help the team change it's fortunes abroad in Australia , South Africa or NZ?

No.

If UAE bullying is enough to establish greatness of players than surely such spreadsheets and charts are valid.

But cricket is bigger than UAE.

yaaa they were complete Nonsense.... UAE BULLIES and wat else they were... i am not able to recall help me out DOCTOR.

 

[UN talkz]

TO ALL THOSE WHO HATE AND CRITICIZE MISBAH AND YOUNIS.
#MISYOU

 

[UN talkz]

What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is saying and what others are trying to prove is completely irrelevant.

People are showing stats to show how important they are to the team.

But even if they are important, Mamoon's point is valid. Did they help the team change it's fortunes abroad in Australia , South Africa or NZ?

No.

If UAE bullying is enough to establish greatness of players than surely such spreadsheets and charts are valid.

But cricket is bigger than UAE.

Then wat abt south africa england austrailia new Zealand... all these teams get hammered when they play in asia.... and they do hav greats in their bowling as well as in their batting units.....
Then wat might we call them..... maybe ENGLISH BULLIES

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Not an issue. Younis has failed in the 90% of the innings he has played outside Asia since 2016, and Misbah has never scored runs in Australia and South Africa. We will produce enough batsmen to pile up the runs in UAE/Asia. Batsmen like Miandad, Hanif, Zaheer, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, Majid, Inzamam and MoYo were replaced, and we will not die without Younis and Misbah - who is not better than any of those names.

People are overstating their importance. They couldn't do anything to prevent our record-breaking losing streak and have never won us any series in Australia, England and South Africa and never would have in a million years. Our strengths and weaknesses will remain put with our without them. It was a mediocre team before their retirement, and it will remain a mediocre team after their retirement.

Those who expect the team to go into free fall because of their retirement are in for a surprise. It reminds of the folks who thought that we will not be able to cross 200 in ODIs after Misbah retires. That notion has been blown into pieces because our batting has actually improved after his retirement. The overall combination matters, not one-two individuals.

You know post like this are the reason why I laugh when people, in frustration I might add , call you an 'Indian'. Your out pour of emotion here is commendable and is particularly reminiscent of the generation that grew up in the Titan's era.

We have managed to move on from Imran, Wasim and Miandad and we'll most probably end up moving on from Misbah and Younis as well, and this is coming from someone who believes that YK is the best test batsman we've produced ever.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION]

With Younis and Misbah: we lose most of our overseas matches and win most of our UAE matches.

Without Younis and Misbah: we will lose most of our overseas matches and win most of our UAE matches.

Question: Do people really realise how big an issue it is to lose Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq?

Answer/Conclusion: It is not much of an issue if one takes a holistic approach and considers the results, which is all that matters at the end of the day. Both the success and the failures of the team go beyond the individual performances of both. They contributed to the UAE triumphs and contributed to the overseas failures, but they weren't the main reason for the success and the failures.

As long as Pakistan can score around 400 in the UAE, the spinners will do the job against the overseas teams. Sure Younis had a golden run in 2014-2015, but between 2010 and 2014, he was not that prolific and only scored once per series. Still Pakistan didn't lose in the UAE, even though it didn't have the current version of Azhar or Sarfraz, and Misbah himself went two years without scoring a ton.

Similarly, Pakistan will continue to lose overseas without them because our batsmen are renowned chokers under pressure and the bowlers are not very good. Spinners are negated on non-turning pitches; the pacers don't have the discipline.

Sure, Younis and Misbah will be missed, but for nostalgic reasons mostly. Their retirement will not have a significant impact on the performance and results of the team. And nostalgia is fine, I still miss MoYo's elegant batting, but I do know that our results wouldn't have been much different had he played till 2014-15 which he ideally should have. People are being too emotional over the retirement of this duo and have lost the ability to think clearly. However, time will put things in order. It is a healer.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan will definitely miss YK. He's one of the best test batsmen you've ever produced and has a great 4th innings record. Not to mention a very good slip catcher as well. Misbah is a different question though? What exactly has Misbah done that his predecessors failed to do? Don't get me wrong. Misbah has been a very good player and a massive overachiever. Not to mention he led Pakistan with dignity in the immediate aftermath of the spot fixing saga. But he has been a very defensive captain and is atleast partly responsible for the selection of his buddies/oldies in the team. He can be replaced easily in my opinion.

 

[confused_amoeba]

Someone mentioned remembering batsmen of the past. YK is the most ungraceful batsmen to walk the earth. Misbah is plain ordinary. Unlike Yousuf or Anwar or even Inzi. At least one enjoyed watching them play.

 

[New Yorker]

[MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION]

With Younis and Misbah: we lose most of our overseas matches and win most of our UAE matches.

Without Younis and Misbah: we will lose most of our overseas matches and win most of our UAE matches.

Question: Do people really realise how big an issue it is to lose Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq?

Answer/Conclusion: It is not much of an issue if one takes a holistic approach and considers the results, which is all that matters at the end of the day. Both the success and the failures of the team go beyond the individual performances of both. They contributed to the UAE triumphs and contributed to the overseas failures, but they weren't the main reason for the success and the failures.

As long as Pakistan can score around 400 in the UAE, the spinners will do the job against the overseas teams. Sure Younis had a golden run in 2014-2015, but between 2010 and 2014, he was not that prolific and only scored once per series. Still Pakistan didn't lose in the UAE, even though it didn't have the current version of Azhar or Sarfraz, and Misbah himself went two years without scoring a ton.

Similarly, Pakistan will continue to lose overseas without them because our batsmen are renowned chokers under pressure and the bowlers are not very good. Spinners are negated on non-turning pitches; the pacers don't have the discipline.

Sure, Younis and Misbah will be missed, but for nostalgic reasons mostly. Their retirement will not have a significant impact on the performance and results of the team. And nostalgia is fine, I still miss MoYo's elegant batting, but I do know that our results wouldn't have been much different had he played till 2014-15 which he ideally should have. People are being too emotional over the retirement of this duo and have lost the ability to think clearly. However, time will put things in order. It is a healer.

I don't see how fabrication can be clarifying, or sobriety grow out
of vindictiveness.

Your facts in this instance are hallucinatory, the standards quixotic
to say the least.

How many batsmen, Pakistani or otherwise, can be said to have
won an entire Test series, in Australia, by themselves?

Meanwhile, we have 10 MoMs in Tests. Third in Pakistan after Imran
and Wasim.

"Only Bradman has a higher percentage of team runs in wins,
among the batsmen with 3000-plus runs in victories.

Outright, Test winnings knocks in every country but Australia,
where he last scored 175,* and averaged 50 across his career.

Levelled a series in England in his penultimate year, with a double
ton; scored a scarcely believable 171* in the 4th innings in Lanka
the year before, securing a 2-1 series win.

Yet we are to believe he makes no difference to whether Pakistan
wins outside the UAE?

Will the world stop turning after he retires? No.

Will Pakistan miss a player like him? Absolutely.

 

[Markhor]

What [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is saying and what others are trying to prove is completely irrelevant.

People are showing stats to show how important they are to the team.

But even if they are important, Mamoon's point is valid. Did they help the team change it's fortunes abroad in Australia , South Africa or NZ?

No.

If UAE bullying is enough to establish greatness of players than surely such spreadsheets and charts are valid.

But cricket is bigger than UAE.

Imran Khan and Javed Miandad must also be failures going by your logic then as they never won a series in Australia.

We have beaten New Zealand away in 2011 so get your facts right.

 

[Big Mac]

Not an issue. Younis has failed in the 90% of the innings he has played outside Asia since 2016, and Misbah has never scored runs in Australia and South Africa. We will produce enough batsmen to pile up the runs in UAE/Asia. Batsmen like Miandad, Hanif, Zaheer, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, Majid, Inzamam and MoYo were replaced, and we will not die without Younis and Misbah - who is not better than any of those names.

So we can't call them ATG when they have such holes in their resumes, I can respect that argument. I'm sure that as someone who pretends to take pride in logic and intellectualism you would hold everybody to that same standard.

Say, someone like Dennis Lillee who averaged 68 in Asia with best bowling figures of 3/114 against a minnow Sri Lanka team. Lillee also failed to take a single wicket in the West Indies in his entire international career.

To be fair, you also talked about it being a team game and how Misbah and Younis never helped us win a series in foreign conditions so maybe Lillee's pathetic bowling stats helped the team win a series in Asia?

Never won a test in the Windies, never won a test in Pakistan, never even played a test in India.

To add to his test CV, he never took an ODI wicket in the Windies or Asia.

I mean, surely there's no way you could possible rate someone who only took wickets down under and in England and never helped his team win in alien conditions?

It is debatable, but Lillee is severely underrated on this forum. He was a revolutionary and fast bowling lethal and menacing again. Marshall, Lillee, Imran, McGrath and Hadlee are certainly the top 5 pacers of all time in no particular order.

Oh no wait, he's one of the top five pacers of all time.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[Red Devil]

So we can't call them ATG when they have such holes in their resumes, I can respect that argument. I'm sure that as someone who pretends to take pride in logic and intellectualism you would hold everybody to that same standard.

Say, someone like Dennis Lillee who averaged 68 in Asia with best bowling figures of 3/114 against a minnow Sri Lanka team. Lillee also failed to take a single wicket in the West Indies in his entire international career.

To be fair, you also talked about it being a team game and how Misbah and Younis never helped us win a series in foreign conditions so maybe Lillee's pathetic bowling stats helped the team win a series in Asia?

Never won a test in the Windies, never won a test in Pakistan, never even played a test in India.

To add to his test CV, he never took an ODI wicket in the Windies or Asia.

I mean, surely there's no way you could possible rate someone who only took wickets down under and in England and never helped his team win in alien conditions?




Oh no wait, he's one of the top five pacers of all time.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[Pete Rose]

they are a big loss no doubt. but my concerns about that are far outweighed by the excitement of what comes next.

 

[shaz619]

) that was my reaction as well after reading [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] response to [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[aloo paratha]

Without Younis and Misbah: we will lose most of our overseas matches and win most of our UAE matches.

Question: Do people really realise how big an issue it is to lose Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq?

Answer/Conclusion: It is not much of an issue if one takes a holistic approach and considers the results, which is all that matters at the end of the day. Both the success and the failures of the team go beyond the individual performances of both. They contributed to the UAE triumphs and contributed to the overseas failures, but they weren't the main reason for the success and the failures.

As long as Pakistan can score around 400 in the UAE, the spinners will do the job against the overseas teams. Sure Younis had a golden run in 2014-2015, but between 2010 and 2014, he was not that prolific and only scored once per series. Still Pakistan didn't lose in the UAE, even though it didn't have the current version of Azhar or Sarfraz, and Misbah himself went two years without scoring a ton.

Similarly, Pakistan will continue to lose overseas without them because our batsmen are renowned chokers under pressure and the bowlers are not very good. Spinners are negated on non-turning pitches; the pacers don't have the discipline.

Sure, Younis and Misbah will be missed, but for nostalgic reasons mostly. Their retirement will not have a significant impact on the performance and results of the team. And nostalgia is fine, I still miss MoYo's elegant batting, but I do know that our results wouldn't have been much different had he played till 2014-15 which he ideally should have. People are being too emotional over the retirement of this duo and have lost the ability to think clearly. However, time will put things in order. It is a healer.

This is literally all just you're theory, who guarantees we will win all our matches in the UAE let alone all of Asia once they leave.