Do people really realise how big an issue it is to lose Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq?

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION]

You can call Younis an ATG or whatever you like. There is no one criteria for reaching ATG status; every career has a different story to tell, and an ATG in your eyes may not be an ATG in my eyes and vice versa. For example, I consider Cook an ATG, but the majority don't, and I perfectly understand why they don't.

Whether Younis is an ATG or not (I don't think he is) is an outdated debate now. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't, the main talking point now is how much the team will miss him, and there is little evidence that his retirement is going to negatively impact our results. We are not reliant on him when it comes to winning matches in the UAE, and more often than not, he has been amongst the chief architects for our lack of overseas success.

As far as Lillee is concerned, surely if you look at it statistically only then his lack of matches and lack of success in Asia counts against his legacy. The Cricinfo generation of cricket observers will probably not rate him an ATG, but there were several factors why he didn't succeed/play much in Asia: injuries, WSC, and pitches specifically designed to negate his threat. However, that didn't stop him from changing fast bowling and inspiring a generation of legends like Imran, Hadlee and the Caribbean quartet. No to mention, most of the Australian pitches during his time were batting paradises. Top 5 or not is debatable, but he is without a doubt amongst the top 10 pacers of all time. His legacy is far greater than Younis Khan's, who hasn't stood out amongst the best batsman of his time and has filled his boots on batting highways for the most part of his career, and has a long, long list of failures against lateral movement.

Anyhow, this isn't the thread for debating the status of Younis. The point of debate is how much the team will miss him after he retires, and the answer to that query is not much. Our strengths and weaknesses will stay put.

 

[Mamoon]

This is literally all just you're theory, who guarantees we will win all our matches in the UAE let alone all of Asia once they leave.

Theory based on historical evidence. I can't take into account a future where the Pakistani batsmen suddenly forget how to hold a bat because Younis has retired. If that happens, well then yes, we will badly miss him.

 

[shaz619]

I don't see how fabrication can be clarifying, or sobriety grow out
of vindictiveness.

Your facts in this instance are hallucinatory, the standards quixotic
to say the least.

How many batsmen, Pakistani or otherwise, can be said to have
won an entire Test series, in Australia, by themselves?

Meanwhile, we have 10 MoMs in Tests. Third in Pakistan after Imran
and Wasim.

"Only Bradman has a higher percentage of team runs in wins,
among the batsmen with 3000-plus runs in victories.

Outright, Test winnings knocks in every country but Australia,
where he last scored 175,* and averaged 50 across his career.

Levelled a series in England in his penultimate year, with a double
ton; scored a scarcely believable 171* in the 4th innings in Lanka
the year before, securing a 2-1 series win.

Yet we are to believe he makes no difference to whether Pakistan
wins outside the UAE?

Will the world stop turning after he retires? No.

Will Pakistan miss a player like him? Absolutely.

Khan was involved in 7 of Pakistan's 9 away wins since making his debut and averages 114 across 5 of those wins in countries which include New Zealand, South Africa, West Indies and England.

 

[Hamza_]

Khan was involved in 7 of Pakistan's 9 away wins since making his debut and averages 114 across 5 of those wins in countries which include New Zealand, South Africa, West Indies and England.

So why do we cry when Hafeez and Malik use stats to show them self perfect players?

 

[Mamoon]

I don't see how fabrication can be clarifying, or sobriety grow out
of vindictiveness.

Your facts in this instance are hallucinatory, the standards quixotic
to say the least.

How many batsmen, Pakistani or otherwise, can be said to have
won an entire Test series, in Australia, by themselves?

Meanwhile, we have 10 MoMs in Tests. Third in Pakistan after Imran
and Wasim.

"Only Bradman has a higher percentage of team runs in wins,
among the batsmen with 3000-plus runs in victories.

Outright, Test winnings knocks in every country but Australia,
where he last scored 175,* and averaged 50 across his career.

Levelled a series in England in his penultimate year, with a double
ton; scored a scarcely believable 171* in the 4th innings in Lanka
the year before, securing a 2-1 series win.

Yet we are to believe he makes no difference to whether Pakistan
wins outside the UAE?

Will the world stop turning after he retires? No.

Will Pakistan miss a player like him? Absolutely.

His career achievements have little to do with this argument because he hasn't been the sole performer in the team. My objection is with the argument that the team will badly suffer after his retirement, not with the argument that he has played a massive role in our success (at least in Asia). Of course he has, but he has not carried that batting lineup on his back. He has simply been the best batsman for the most part, and those two things are not equal.

For example, against SA in the UAE in 2013, he didn't cross 50 in four innings against the best team in the world and Pakistan had played like Manzoor, Masood and Adnan in the lineup. Yet, we didn't lose the series. In England he helped Pakistan win the Oval Test after failing throughout the summer while the likes of Misbah, Yasir, Azhar, Shafiq and even Sarfraz were making regular contributions.

He has not been able to dominate a team overseas and random, individual performances do not win you series. That has been the problem for all Pakistani batsmen, apart from maybe MoYo who dominated England in 2006. So, how is Younis different from the rest? He isn't, and thus, we are not losing out on much with his retirement. Anyhow, time will tell how much his retirement impacts our results. I personally don't feel we will get any better or worse i.e. will be a good team in Asia but will lose majority of the matches outside Asia.

 

[Big Mac]

[MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION]

You can call Younis an ATG or whatever you like. There is no one criteria for reaching ATG status; every career has a different story to tell, and an ATG in your eyes may not be an ATG in my eyes and vice versa. For example, I consider Cook an ATG, but the majority don't, and I perfectly understand why they don't.

Whether Younis is an ATG or not (I don't think he is) is an outdated debate now. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't, the main talking point now is how much the team will miss him, and there is little evidence that his retirement is going to negatively impact our results. We are not reliant on him when it comes to winning matches in the UAE, and more often than not, he has been amongst the chief architects for our lack of overseas success.

As far as Lillee is concerned, surely if you look at it statistically only then his lack of matches and lack of success in Asia counts against his legacy. The Cricinfo generation of cricket observers will probably not rate him an ATG, but there were several factors why he didn't succeed/play much in Asia: injuries, WSC, and pitches specifically designed to negate his threat. However, that didn't stop him from changing fast bowling and inspiring a generation of legends like Imran, Hadlee and the Caribbean quartet. No to mention, most of the Australian pitches during his time were batting paradises. Top 5 or not is debatable, but he is without a doubt amongst the top 10 pacers of all time. His legacy is far greater than Younis Khan's, who hasn't stood out amongst the best batsman of his time and has filled his boots on batting highways for the most part of his career, and has a long, long list of failures against lateral movement.

Anyhow, this isn't the thread for debating the status of Younis. The point of debate is how much the team will miss him after he retires, and the answer to that query is not much. Our strengths and weaknesses will stay put.

*Condescends to the cricinfo generation for using stats and results to judge Lillee*

*Points to stats and results to judge Younis*

Oh and what's all this about?

Top 5 or not is debatable, but he is without a doubt amongst the top 10 pacers of all time

Less than 48 hours ago Lillee was 'certainly one of the top 5 pacers of all time'. Who are these two or three bowlers who ascended to GOAT status in the last day or two and knocked Lillee out of the top 5?

 

[Syed1]

Misbah is batting 1 run off 49 balls at the moment.


We will surely miss him.

 

[Speedster777]

Test cricket has evolved no longer do people bat with 1 and 2 rpo misbah is still stuck in 90's. Cricket will only improve once misbah and younis retire.

 

[szrana007]

We will most likely lose our next series in the UAE against SL this year. I don't have much hope from our "********" youngsters. Younis as a batsman is extremely tough to replace, especially for a country like Pakistan, where there is a dearth of batting talent. Misbah will also be missed. His batting and leadership skills were perfectly suited to the UAE, and I doubt Sarfraz can lead the team and inspire them as well as Misbah.

 

[Red Devil]

[MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION]

You can call Younis an ATG or whatever you like. There is no one criteria for reaching ATG status; every career has a different story to tell, and an ATG in your eyes may not be an ATG in my eyes and vice versa. For example, I consider Cook an ATG, but the majority don't, and I perfectly understand why they don't.

Whether Younis is an ATG or not (I don't think he is) is an outdated debate now. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't, the main talking point now is how much the team will miss him, and there is little evidence that his retirement is going to negatively impact our results. We are not reliant on him when it comes to winning matches in the UAE, and more often than not, he has been amongst the chief architects for our lack of overseas success.

As far as Lillee is concerned, surely if you look at it statistically only then his lack of matches and lack of success in Asia counts against his legacy. The Cricinfo generation of cricket observers will probably not rate him an ATG, but there were several factors why he didn't succeed/play much in Asia: injuries, WSC, and pitches specifically designed to negate his threat. However, that didn't stop him from changing fast bowling and inspiring a generation of legends like Imran, Hadlee and the Caribbean quartet. No to mention, most of the Australian pitches during his time were batting paradises. Top 5 or not is debatable, but he is without a doubt amongst the top 10 pacers of all time. His legacy is far greater than Younis Khan's, who hasn't stood out amongst the best batsman of his time and has filled his boots on batting highways for the most part of his career, and has a long, long list of failures against lateral movement.

Anyhow, this isn't the thread for debating the status of Younis. The point of debate is how much the team will miss him after he retires, and the answer to that query is not much. Our strengths and weaknesses will stay put.

I agree that the ATG thing is entirely subjective. There is no definite criteria for it so it's pointless to debate about that.

As for whether we'll miss Younis or not, I can't help but feel you're overrating and perhaps expecting too much from the potential replacements we have for Younis. It's not going to be easy for anyone to replace a player who's literally been a run-making machine in the UAE. Sure, the conditions might not be too challenging but it is still not going to be easy to come into the side and start scoring at over 60 runs per inning straight away.

YK's contributions in most of our wins, home or away, were far too great to say he's not going to be missed. I hope I'm wrong and the likes of Haris and Usman hit the ground running but it would almost be unfair to expect something like that from them. Even Babar, who's easily the most talented Pakistani batsman in a long time, is struggling to establish himself in the Test arena.

 

[Adil_94]

Younis will defo be a big miss. Hes a great batsman and his experience is invaluable. Misbah will be a miss but he will be easier replaced than YK.

 

[Mamoon]

*Condescends to the cricinfo generation for using stats and results to judge Lillee*

*Points to stats and results to judge Younis*

Oh and what's all this about?

If you think that I don't regard Younis an ATG because of his stats, then you haven't read more than half of my posts on him. Statistically, Younis is as good as anyone to have played the game. The reason I don't rate him an ATG is because he has consistently failed against lateral movement and has never been able to dominate a series overseas.

Less than 48 hours ago Lillee was 'certainly one of the top 5 pacers of all time'. Who are these two or three bowlers who ascended to GOAT status in the last day or two and knocked Lillee out of the top 5?

That's because my opinions are not rigid. Flexibility is always good, there is no point in sticking to your guns if someone can provide a strong contrarian argument. If someone can show me even 5 great innings that Younis has played against quality swing bowling in difficult conditions, I will accept him as an ATG. I still consider Lillee a top 5 pacer, but as I said, it is debatable. If someone can convince me that there are a few other pacers who deserve to be ahead of him, I will happily reconsider my view.

 

[Mamoon]

I agree that the ATG thing is entirely subjective. There is no definite criteria for it so it's pointless to debate about that.

As for whether we'll miss Younis or not, I can't help but feel you're overrating and perhaps expecting too much from the potential replacements we have for Younis. It's not going to be easy for anyone to replace a player who's literally been a run-making machine in the UAE. Sure, the conditions might not be too challenging but it is still not going to be easy to come into the side and start scoring at over 60 runs per inning straight away.

YK's contributions in most of our wins, home or away, were far too great to say he's not going to be missed. I hope I'm wrong and the likes of Haris and Usman hit the ground running but it would almost be unfair to expect something like that from them. Even Babar, who's easily the most talented Pakistani batsman in a long time, is struggling to establish himself in the Test arena.

Players are mostly never replaced like-for-like, but that does not mean that the wheels come off when a certain player retires. The direct replacement of Younis may not be as prolific as he was, but that does not mean that the overall batting will suffer. For example, for the best part of the last 5-6 years, Hafeez was our main Test opener. Now, it is Azhar, who is world class, who was not a world class number 3. Babar may be struggling at the moment, but he has the potential to be world class number 3. He has the ability to be prolific and also dominate the opposition. He is not a big hitter, but he is a fluent player; fluency is vital for a number 3.

Secondly, Sarfraz is going to be a different captain to Misbah. The brand of cricket that we play under Misbah is likely to be shelved under Sarfraz, if his Limited Overs captaincy is anything to go by. Similarly, Arthur himself is quite keen on Pakistan modernizing its Test approach, which he couldn't do with Misbah at the helm. This 1 (50) type nonsense will not be tolerated in my opinion.

People are worrying too much about the direct replacement of Younis, but it doesn't work that way. Teams evolve with time and the composition/formation/tactics change.

 

[Big Mac]

If you think that I don't regard Younis an ATG because of his stats, then you haven't read more than half of my posts on him. Statistically, Younis is as good as anyone to have played the game. The reason I don't rate him an ATG is because he has consistently failed against lateral movement and has never been able to dominate a series overseas.

Lillee never dominated a series overseas, yet he's GOAT because of his legacy.

Younis Khan has left behind a long lasting legacy for the next generation of Pakistani batsmen but thats written off because you say he never dominated a series overseas.

As for the Aussie batting paradises, in the 1970s only India (30.95) and South Africa (30.46) had a lower runs per wicket than Australia (31.11). Oh I'm sorry, that's the cricinfo generation talking isn't it? Facts aren't weighted as heavily as feelings and bold claims made with no actual evidence to support them.

 

[Red Devil]

Players are mostly never replaced like-for-like, but that does not mean that the wheels come off when a certain player retires. The direct replacement of Younis may not be as prolific as he was, but that does not mean that the overall batting will suffer. For example, for the best part of the last 5-6 years, Hafeez was our main Test opener. Now, it is Azhar, who is world class, who was not a world class number 3. Babar may be struggling at the moment, but he has the potential to be world class number 3. He has the ability to be prolific and also dominate the opposition. He is not a big hitter, but he is a fluent player; fluency is vital for a number 3.

Secondly, Sarfraz is going to be a different captain to Misbah. The brand of cricket that we play under Misbah is likely to be shelved under Sarfraz, if his Limited Overs captaincy is anything to go by. Similarly, Arthur himself is quite keen on Pakistan modernizing its Test approach, which he couldn't do with Misbah at the helm. This 1 (50) type nonsense will not be tolerated in my opinion.

People are worrying too much about the direct replacement of Younis, but it doesn't work that way. Teams evolve with time and the composition/formation/tactics change.

If his replacement is not as prolific as he was then the overall batting will definitely suffer in the short term considering there's no one apart from Azhar who's doing well in our batting line up at the moment. I'm not saying we'll turn into complete minnows but it's definitely going to be tough to recover from this until Babar, Harris, Usman etc find their feet and start performing.

 

[Mamoon]

Lillee never dominated a series overseas, yet he's GOAT because of his legacy.

Younis Khan has left behind a long lasting legacy for the next generation of Pakistani batsmen but thats written off because you say he never dominated a series overseas.

As for the Aussie batting paradises, in the 1970s only India (30.95) and South Africa (30.46) had a lower runs per wicket than Australia (31.11). Oh I'm sorry, that's the cricinfo generation talking isn't it? Facts aren't weighted as heavily as feelings and bold claims made with no actual evidence to support them.

Yes, I will compare Younis Khan's legacy to Lillee's if we see numerous ATG batsmen of the next generation across different countries cite Younis as their inspiration. If he achieves that (which he will not) his legacy will be as grandeur as Lillee's. Secondly, your numbers do not prove that the Australian pitches were conductive to fast bowling (except for Perth). Lillee, along with Thompson, Roberts and Willis, were the only great fast bowlers of the 70's, and no one was as menacing as Lillee who left every young aspiring fast bowler in awe. It was a decade where England's leading wicket-taker was a left-arm orthodox, which explains everything about how good an era that was for pace bowling.

You can continue with your Cricinfo filters to prove that Younis Khan has a greater legacy than Dennis Lillee, who failed outside Australia and is not an ATG.

 

[Big Mac]

You can continue with your Cricinfo filters to prove that Younis Khan has a greater legacy than Dennis Lillee, who failed outside Australia and is not an ATG.

I never said Younis was an ATG, or greater than Lillee.

I'm just pointing out that you apply very different standards to Pakistani players than you do to others.

If Younis isn't an ATG, fine but then neither is Lillee according to the standards that you have set yourself.

 

[szrana007]

Yes, I will compare Younis Khan's legacy to Lillee's if we see numerous ATG batsmen of the next generation across different countries cite Younis as their inspiration. If he achieves that (which he will not) his legacy will be as grandeur as Lillee's. Secondly, your numbers do not prove that the Australian pitches were conductive to fast bowling (except for Perth). Lillee, along with Thompson, Roberts and Willis, were the only great fast bowlers of the 70's, and no one was as menacing as Lillee who left every young aspiring fast bowler in awe. It was a decade where England's leading wicket-taker was a left-arm orthodox, which explains everything about how good an era that was for pace bowling.

You can continue with your Cricinfo filters to prove that Younis Khan has a greater legacy than Dennis Lillee, who failed outside Australia and is not an ATG.

Younis is not as great as DK Lillee, but he certainly is an ATG. I am sure, young Pakistani batsmen look up to him. Anyways, I think he will be inducted in the ICC "Hall of fame" soon enough.

 

[zulfiqar]

nobody is talking abt whether Pak team will survive or not it is abt how much we are gonna miss them......

I won't miss Misbah, but yes, I will miss Younis Khan. Younis has played enough memorable knocks & I will miss his presence in the middle order. He was usually consistent, and has played a few gems (almost always in the 2nd innings) in India, England & Sri Lanka. He's been a clutch test player.

If this thread is just about emotions, it's a bit of a useless thread though isn't it? Some people probably miss Imran Nazir too, and others don't miss any player at all because they don't really care. But if you mean that you will miss their contributions to the team, then I'm afraid I disagree with the people here who feel that YK did not contribute to Pakistani team victories, just because he failed abroad. Because these same people then also don't miss Imran, Wasim, Sachin & Kapil, as none of them were able to win in SA/AUS, just like the teams that came before them and the ones that came after them.

 

[MajidBhuta-AamirFan]

It will be a great thing for Pakistan.

For me both were useless and selfish players for ODI cricket...

I can't say anything for test cricket......

One thing for sure both were not a match winners any in format...

They are not Inzi or Saeed anwer types... So I am very happy for their exit.

They both wasted my millions of hours for nothin.......

 

[Big Mac]

It will be a great thing for Pakistan.

For me both were useless and selfish players for ODI cricket...

I can't say anything for test cricket......

One thing for sure both were not a match winners any in format...

They are not Inzi or Saeed anwer types... So I am very happy for their exit.

They both wasted my millions of hours for nothin.......

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Imran Khan and Javed Miandad must also be failures going by your logic then as they never won a series in Australia.

We have beaten New Zealand away in 2011 so get your facts right.

Imran drew against great West Indies team of yesteryear in Windies.

We havent won in Australia in 25 years. And Misbah and Younis didnt change that.

Javed is an ATG is open to debate considering the vast discrepancy between his Pakistan and abroad performances.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Winning in Australia and South Africa is just a bonus. Worrying only about places that you visit once every six years is stupid and the mark of a post-colonial Desi inferiority complex where we can't function without validation from white folks.

We play our 'home' games in Asia, and of the remaining test nations three of them are on the subcontinent and a fourth (The Windies) play on many wickets that aren't too dissimilar to Asian wickets nowadays.

The English come to Asia, get battered out of sight and they don't go home moaning about how all of their players are useless. They just have a moan about the pitches and boast about how they'll destroy the Asian teams when they come to England. Meanwhile Pakistani fans act like the home victories don't count and try and act like we should be dominating everybody in completely foreign conditions.

Well excuse me for wanting my team to be better abroad.

If UAE dominance satisfies and satiates your desires then , surely your ideals are much less than mine.

As for inferiority complex, that's not even worth answering.

If you have one, it's not my problem.

I know what our players are worth without anyone else telling me what they are worth.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

How many Pakistan captain's have dethroned Australia and South Africa, what has our "home" record been like prior to Misbah taking over? when was the last time we did fairly well in England during a 4+ Test match series?

Bonus question for you Dr saab, when was the last time Pakistan reached no.1 in the Test rankings [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION]

We did well in England and got blown away in NZ where we do well. Doesn't that even out?

Full marks to Misbah for getting the test Mace and no 1 ranking.

However do you suppose it's easier to get the ranking if you don't play abroad and if you do, the only teams you do play are Sri Lanka over 2 years time?

If you think it's just as easy to get the no 1 ranking playing abroad and home, then we have different ideas.

Pakistan couldn't win against Zimbabwe of all teams in tests abroad. Does that also count an achievement?

If we are going to go for wins, lets also look at our embarrassments.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Then wat abt south africa england austrailia new Zealand... all these teams get hammered when they play in asia.... and they do hav greats in their bowling as well as in their batting units.....
Then wat might we call them..... maybe ENGLISH BULLIES

I am not answerable to what other teams think of themselves.

The English Test team is a highly overrated team anyways in my opinion.

Even the Australian team isn't any good in spinning conditions as was seen in Sri Lanka.

However, other teams performances are not my benchmark for judging my team.

Had we won a single test Down Under (against NZ for that matter) we could have proudly stuck out our chest. But we were blanked 5-0 and the response to that is the usual "Oh, we never win Down Under anyways".

Clearly Misbah is supposed to be the best captain, so wasn't he supposed to change that?

My point stands.

Other teams performance metric is not how Pakistan team should be judged.

 

[IAJ]

Misbah is batting 1 run off 49 balls at the moment.


We will surely miss him.

Lol, you haven't even understood the point of the thread.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

And for those claiming that I downrate my own players.

Once only for all people on what I consider of Younis and Misbah

Younis

A borderline ATG in my open. Statistically really good and has the average to prove he is good. You can't argue against average so he is good enough. However , really struggles against lateral movement which is one of the reasons I consider him a notch below ATG. But that's my opinion. Some people may forgive all that, and consider him ATG because he averages high once in the series. That's their standard and it's fair enough.


Misbah is a good to great batsmen depending on the situation. He is not an ATG and he is definitely not an ATG captain. ATG captains don't lose to Zimbabwe away and then fail to win a single Test Down Under and come up with ATG tag. However he is a good captain and that can be judged from the fact that Pakistan won the Test mace when they played at home for two consistent years and also bagged Sri Lanka away. You still have to win games and he did that. As a batsmen he is clearly a standard or notch below Younis.

Now if people want to elevate Younis to the ranking of Sangakkara , Dravid or others, that's their prerogative. I don't consider him as of that level.

But he is clearly superior to Inzimam and Yousaf and has carved a niche in Pakistani batting.


Again let's repeat the question?

Will the Pakistan team miss these two greats and do people realize how big an issue it is to lose both of them?

We do realize that they were instrumental in UAE wins and England draw but we also realize that they are plus 40 and them playing to 50 won't really help us. But people make it sound like, without them we would have been destroyed in UAE.

Considering that most of the destruction was done by Ajmal, Yasir and Babar in UAE I am confident any captain would have at least produced half as good a performance in UAE.

Yes, probably Misbah deserves accolades for getting the team to number 1 because I am fairly confident that no other captain would have made UAE fortress as Misbah did.

But that doesn't mean they are irreplaceable.

Everyone is.

 

[shaz619]

We did well in England and got blown away in NZ where we do well. Doesn't that even out?

Full marks to Misbah for getting the test Mace and no 1 ranking.

However do you suppose it's easier to get the ranking if you don't play abroad and if you do, the only teams you do play are Sri Lanka over 2 years time?

If you think it's just as easy to get the no 1 ranking playing abroad and home, then we have different ideas.

Pakistan couldn't win against Zimbabwe of all teams in tests abroad. Does that also count an achievement?

If we are going to go for wins, lets also look at our embarrassments.

Once you get back to my questions I will get back to yours

 

[moghul]

Rather than physical torture to make the suspected criminals confessed, force them to watch Misbah playing, you will get your result.

 

[MRSN]

We did well in England and got blown away in NZ where we do well. Doesn't that even out?

Full marks to Misbah for getting the test Mace and no 1 ranking.

However do you suppose it's easier to get the ranking if you don't play abroad and if you do, the only teams you do play are Sri Lanka over 2 years time?

If you think it's just as easy to get the no 1 ranking playing abroad and home, then we have different ideas.

Pakistan couldn't win against Zimbabwe of all teams in tests abroad. Does that also count an achievement?

If we are going to go for wins, lets also look at our embarrassments.

those who are saying we never win there needs to know we witnessed series loss first time in 38 years in NZ. Even the likes of who is supposed to be worst captain didn't lose in NZ and had a better Australian team almost strangled for a win. Misbah looked hopeless.

 

[pakistani pride]

YK is done. He will not contribute much even if he would continue.

Misbah can easily play on.

 

[The_Odd_One]

India never won a series in Aus. SL never won a series there either. Next I'm going to hear that India did not miss Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, and Laxman. SL did not miss Sanga and Mahela.

This is such childish thinking.

 

[The_Odd_One]

We did well in England and got blown away in NZ where we do well. Doesn't that even out?

Full marks to Misbah for getting the test Mace and no 1 ranking.

However do you suppose it's easier to get the ranking if you don't play abroad and if you do, the only teams you do play are Sri Lanka over 2 years time?

If you think it's just as easy to get the no 1 ranking playing abroad and home, then we have different ideas.

Pakistan couldn't win against Zimbabwe of all teams in tests abroad. Does that also count an achievement?

If we are going to go for wins, lets also look at our embarrassments.

Did not Pakstan lose a series to Zimbabwe at home in the 90s with a far far superior team? Before Misbah, Pakistan could not even win at home. At least he built a solid team for home conditions. Learn to give credit when it is due.

 

[The_Odd_One]

So, Younis and Misbah are not missed, right?

 

[mystical man]

So what if they retired and were already past their prime in their mid 40s and were unwilling to give up their places to groom a youngster. This is partially the fault of PCB and the committee selection.

 

[Markhor]

Struggling to score 300 vs a Sri Lanka team that got whitewashed 9-0 at home recently, but apparently Younis and Misbah were "holding us back" from unleashing all these young Bradmans and Richards we apparently had waiting in the wings.

 

[MRSN]

only YK has been a loss. We do have Misbah replacement in Sami Aslam.lol

 

[Usman Chadda]

People here are nobodies giving opinions on a game they haven't ever played professionally. There is a reason there are selectors in place who have experience of this game, who should not be bashed by the aforementioned awaam. Younis and Misbah did much more than just score runs. They were the nucelus of this team. The think-tank. There is no leader in this line-up. Everybody, even the supposedly best batsman Azhar Ali, is timid and playing for his place in the team. The team is very young and the coach is struggling to develop tactics for the sub-continent. This is just like that ODI series in Bangladesh (2015) all over again. Pakistan will definitely learn from this.