Do you believe we are truly investing in the right players, or are there better options available?

[Stewie]

This is a serious question and I am sure in some variant this topic has been beaten to death but I felt inclined to pose it here again. What really ails us is clear thinking about the make up of a team, not just who plays.

I mean I look at some of them in the team and their roles and what they have done in T 20 for us and I seriously wonder if the think tank is even thinking straight.

I dont mean to bash any players here and I hope you guys dont do it either. I wanted to get some opinions on reasonable replacements for those who you dont think fit in the team and the reasons behind why they should be picked.

Discuss!

 

[blackanhyellow]

Need haris sohail and babar azam to come out of injury.

They are not world class, but they are better than all other options.

 

[Mamoon]

In Pakistan, you are a star in the making as long as you don't play for Pakistan and don't play on live TV.

One can almost guarantee that the 95% of the hyped future talents on PP will turn out to be rubbish cricketers at the highest level, simply because it is too big a jump from our domestic cricket.

Fakhar, Sadaf bla bla bla. All crap and delusional false hopes. Looking forward to them getting exposed as well.

The players that play for Pakistan are the players that we have, and they are not good enough.

 

[Stewie]

Need haris sohail and babar azam to come out of injury.

They are not world class, but they are better than all other options.

My thoughts exactly. We need those two in the team and even Imad Wasim, I feel is not a bad player. Having those guys in the team along with Malik can give you plenty of bowling options as well.

In the subcontinent, its always good to go with more spin options than just a one or a two.

I also feel people like Khurram Manzoor, Sharjeel, etc should be tried in ODI format because it gives them an opportunity to take time and settle down. In T20s its just too much pressure for someone making a comeback to go after the bowling from the get go and do the job right. I also think without his bowling, we should evaluate Hafeez's position in the team.

 

[Ankit007]

Thing is they are investing nothing on too much of players.

 

[Stewie]

In Pakistan, you are a star in the making as long as you don't play for Pakistan and don't play on live TV.

One can almost guarantee that the 95% of the hyped future talents on PP will turn out to be rubbish cricketers at the highest level, simply because it is too big a jump from our domestic cricket.

Fakhar, Sadaf bla bla bla. All crap and delusional false hopes. Looking forward to them getting exposed as well.

The players that play for Pakistan are the players that we have, and they are not good enough.

There is some truth in your statement but if you think thats what I intended to say with this thread you are sorely mistaken.

I believe we do have better options available to us who have played and should be in the team but did not play due to whatever reasons, non selection, injuries etc.

For instance, to give you an idea, where is what I was thinking:

From the team that played today you take out Sharjeel, Khurram, Hafeez, Sami, Anwar and put in Imad Wasim, Babar Azam, Haris Sohail, Wahab, Junaid/Sohail Khan and I think you have a much better team ..

I dont think I am pointing to anybody that has not even debuted for Pakistan yet.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I think one big problem is that Pakistani management is very impatient. There are changes in every game. Wahab played the first game, Nawad played the second one, and now Anwar played the 3rd one.

Batting order is also changing in every game. Pakistan just needs to pick best available XI (based on recent performances and not on seniority) and persist with them.

 

[Mamoon]

There is some truth in your statement but if you think thats what I intended to say with this thread you are sorely mistaken.

I believe we do have better options available to us who have played and should be in the team but did not play due to whatever reasons, non selection, injuries etc.

For instance, to give you an idea, where is what I was thinking:

From the team that played today you take out Sharjeel, Khurram, Hafeez, Sami, Anwar and put in Imad Wasim, Babar Azam, Haris Sohail, Wahab, Junaid/Sohail Khan and I think you have a much better team ..

I dont think I am pointing to anybody that has not even debuted for Pakistan yet.

Same Imad who was exposed in PSL, and is likely to be exposed by international teams in the future.

Junaid has been awful for 2 years and is not even better than Sami at present. People talk about him regaining his rhythm in PSL, but he only got an out of sorts Gayle out for a few times before going back to mediocrity and was eventually dropped by his team.

Wahab got hammered vs India and got hammered in Bangladesh last year. He cannot do anything if there is no bounce or reverse-swing.

Haris and Babar are good batting talents by Pakistani standards, but there is a big question mark over their suitability to T20s. Both are not big hitters and more of an accumulators.

In other words, there is no possible XI in Pakistan today that can make a quality ODI/T20 team. We simply do not have the players.

If Junaid, Imad, Wahab, Babar etc. were in today's team, people would have hoped to see them replaced by Sharjeel, Sami etc. and we keep playing this game. We keep going in circles.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Sir, there is no hidden talent waiting to be discovered as they would have us believe.

This is the best lot we have.

I know there are 15 players in Pakistan who people believe are next Inzimam but that is just feeding on delusions.

Sir, do you know the key to success in any field of life?

It's about realizing you have a problem and working on your problem to eliminate it.

With due respect to Pakpassion posters, they HYPE talent even now so much, they make it look like DESPITE EVERYTHING GOING SOUTH IN OUR COUNTRY, cricket is progressing leaps and bounds and talent is growing on apple trees of Pakistan.

Let's be honest here.

Let's tonight accept that the cupboard is bare and start working at grassroots level.

But why would the PCB do that?

Why would YOU or I even do that?

Because we are the same system, that told us, DENIAL IS THE KEY TO SUCCESS.

Don't accept your mistakes, blame others and live in La La land.

 

[AlphaFighter]

I think one big problem is that Pakistani management is very impatient. There are changes in every game. Wahab played the first game, Nawad played the second one, and now Anwar played the 3rd one.

Batting order is also changing in every game. Pakistan just needs to pick best available XI (based on recent performances and not on seniority) and persist with them.

This is why each and every player in the side is ultimately just playing for himself, the team's goals and best interests are just secondary. The captain and coach have just created an environment of fear and panic.

 

[Hamza_]

Sharjeel i think scored runs in FC, Against England Lions and PSL. Imo need to give a rope and guide to players like him and Nawaz. Nawaz was dropped after one game only.

 

[The_Odd_One]

This is why each and every player in the side is ultimately just playing for himself, the team's goals and best interests are just secondary. The captain and coach have just created an environment of fear and panic.

Razzaq is a bitter man but he raised a very valid point in one of his interviews that players are never given confidence by the current Pakistani team management. They feel insecure and cannot perform up to their potential. This is a mystery how some of the mediocre players from other teams become world class with time but some of the Pakistan's better talents completely forget their game after a couple of bad performances.

One more point that Razzaq raised was that nobody is an all-rounder naturally. The captain has to find the hidden batting or bowling talent and give the player a chance to show it. Akram promoted Razzaq in 99 WC and afterwards Razzaq became a world class all-rounder. Saeed Anwar sent Afridi to bat at #3 and he broke the fastest century record. That innovation and confidence in players seem missing in all recent Pakistani captains. For example, if Anwar Ali or Imad Wasim are playing as all-rounders, why were they never tried in the top order? Why is Umar Akmal not getting a consistent run at #3. Why is Sarfraz batting at a different position in every match?

 

[Bilal7]

Was a poor decision to drop Rizwan and Maqsood from this team. Yes, they were out of form but making them miss out on this tournament just so Khurrum could make a fool out of himself is a boneheaded move.

Consistency in selection is what made our test team so solid and that is the only way our LOI sides will improve too.

 

[Markhor]

Sir, there is no hidden talent waiting to be discovered as they would have us believe.

This is the best lot we have.

I know there are 15 players in Pakistan who people believe are next Inzimam but that is just feeding on delusions.

Sir, do you know the key to success in any field of life?

It's about realizing you have a problem and working on your problem to eliminate it.

With due respect to Pakpassion posters, they HYPE talent even now so much, they make it look like DESPITE EVERYTHING GOING SOUTH IN OUR COUNTRY, cricket is progressing leaps and bounds and talent is growing on apple trees of Pakistan.

Let's be honest here.

Let's tonight accept that the cupboard is bare and start working at grassroots level.

But why would the PCB do that?

Why would YOU or I even do that?

Because we are the same system, that told us, DENIAL IS THE KEY TO SUCCESS.

Don't accept your mistakes, blame others and live in La La land.

I respectfully disagree with part of your analysis. This is a declining cricketing force and the other countries have left us trailing in their dust - be it through their superior administration, long-term thinking, stability in selection policy, better quality of domestic cricket and good coaching at youth level ensuring players don't develop bad cricketing habits.

However you can't tell me this is the best lot we have. Khurram Manzoor is the best opening option we have ? Legside Khan is the best power hitter we have ? Anwar Ali is the best all-rounder we have ? Shahid Afridi the best captain we have ?

Yes the oft-repeated TALUNT is not as immense as some would have you believe. But there ARE alternatives. Looking at our recent selections, its evident PCB have a bias for players they "invested in" like Ahmed Shehzad, Khurram Manzoor (who keeps getting picked for A team series despite his international failures) and Anwar Ali who is undroppable.

There are openers like Fakhar Zaman who performed superbly vs England Lions yet was overlooked for the Mighty Manzoor, middle order batsmen like Asif Zakir who has an impressive List A record, all-rounders like Aamer Yamin who was inexplicably dropped despite scoring a 50 in the 3 ODIs he featured in and spinners like Mohammad Asghar who was outstanding in the PSL yet we didn't even pick him or ANY OTHER SPECIALIST SPINNER for a tournament in India !

So the question is - are we maximising the resources at our disposal however limited you think they are ? Answer is NO. And for that Waqar Younis, Shahid Afridi and Haroon Rashid must resign.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I respectfully disagree with part of your analysis. This is a declining cricketing force and the other countries have left us trailing in their dust - be it through their superior administration, long-term thinking, stability in selection policy, better quality of domestic cricket and good coaching at youth level ensuring players don't develop bad cricketing habits.

However you can't tell me this is the best lot we have. Khurram Manzoor is the best opening option we have ? Legside Khan is the best power hitter we have ? Anwar Ali is the best all-rounder we have ? Shahid Afridi the best captain we have ?

Yes the oft-repeated TALUNT is not as immense as some would have you believe. But there ARE alternatives. Looking at our recent selections, its evident PCB have a bias for players they "invested in" like Ahmed Shehzad, Khurram Manzoor (who keeps getting picked for A team series despite his international failures) and Anwar Ali who is undroppable.

There are openers like Fakhar Zaman who performed superbly vs England Lions yet was overlooked for the Mighty Manzoor, middle order batsmen like Asif Zakir who has an impressive List A record, all-rounders like Aamer Yamin who was inexplicably dropped despite scoring a 50 in the 3 ODIs he featured in and spinners like Mohammad Asghar who was outstanding in the PSL yet we didn't even pick him or ANY OTHER SPECIALIST SPINNER for a tournament in India !

So the question is - are we maximising the resources at our disposal however limited you think they are ? Answer is NO. And for that Waqar Younis, Shahid Afridi and Haroon Rashid must resign.

You are welcome to believe there is more talent available.

After all, hope breeds more hope and success.

I am finished.

 

[naveed4687]

I guess captaincy should be given to malik before WT20 but that wouldn't happen

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[_Ace_]

I respectfully disagree with part of your analysis. This is a declining cricketing force and the other countries have left us trailing in their dust - be it through their superior administration, long-term thinking, stability in selection policy, better quality of domestic cricket and good coaching at youth level ensuring players don't develop bad cricketing habits.

However you can't tell me this is the best lot we have. Khurram Manzoor is the best opening option we have ? Legside Khan is the best power hitter we have ? Anwar Ali is the best all-rounder we have ? Shahid Afridi the best captain we have ?

Yes the oft-repeated TALUNT is not as immense as some would have you believe. But there ARE alternatives. Looking at our recent selections, its evident PCB have a bias for players they "invested in" like Ahmed Shehzad, Khurram Manzoor (who keeps getting picked for A team series despite his international failures) and Anwar Ali who is undroppable.

There are openers like Fakhar Zaman who performed superbly vs England Lions yet was overlooked for the Mighty Manzoor, middle order batsmen like Asif Zakir who has an impressive List A record, all-rounders like Aamer Yamin who was inexplicably dropped despite scoring a 50 in the 3 ODIs he featured in and spinners like Mohammad Asghar who was outstanding in the PSL yet we didn't even pick him or ANY OTHER SPECIALIST SPINNER for a tournament in India !

So the question is - are we maximising the resources at our disposal however limited you think they are ? Answer is NO. And for that Waqar Younis, Shahid Afridi and Haroon Rashid must resign.

Great post that might get lost within the doom and gloom. Pointing out the current resources however little being under-utilized is not equivalent to denying that the cupboard is relatively bare and the need of the hour is to go back to the drawing board and working on the grass root levels and up. No contradiction between the two in my opinion.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

These are the best of the sorry looking bunch and there is no hope of them improving , sad thing is the U19 pipe line is also seems to drying up so I am not sure where we gonna get the supply.
our only hope is PSL and its handsome paycheck , surely it will gonna attract youngsters to join cricket just for the sake of getting PSL contract.

 

[New Yorker]

In Pakistan, you are a star in the making as long as you don't play for Pakistan and don't play on live TV.

One can almost guarantee that the 95% of the hyped future talents on PP will turn out to be rubbish cricketers at the highest level, simply because it is too big a jump from our domestic cricket.

Fakhar, Sadaf bla bla bla. All crap and delusional false hopes. Looking forward to them getting exposed as well.

The players that play for Pakistan are the players that we have, and they are not good enough.

Bla bla bitterness bla.

You can be angry at those who have done something to disappoint to you.
But to be contemptuous of someone who has never been given a chance to play?

These are young men who have devoted their lives to this sport you claim to like. They
play it as well as anyone else in the country.

What has Sadaf done to deserve this contempt of yours? Why do you think
you are any more right about him than Yasir Shah?

In Pakistan you are failure for...being Pakistani. This is what you are saying.

It is very sad to read this, and frankly, if I may say so, borderline pathological.

 

[*syed59*]

Instead of focusing on the current and any hidden players.. isnt it better if we focus on why we(as in PCB and the whole system) is unable to DAMN WORK and perform their basic duties, which if they had been doing, surely these SAME players could be playing to their FULL potential and THEN, perhaps the argument of unearthing new talent would not have mattered that much ?

Guys, the problem is not so much the talent or lack of talent of players, its the system. No one in Pakistan is working to improve, bring uniformity of any kind and hence NO player is being worked upon and nurtured.
This is the dillema, IMO.

 

[babajee]

Such pessimism....

 

[King-Misbah]

In Pakistan, you are a star in the making as long as you don't play for Pakistan and don't play on live TV.

One can almost guarantee that the 95% of the hyped future talents on PP will turn out to be rubbish cricketers at the highest level, simply because it is too big a jump from our domestic cricket.

Fakhar, Sadaf bla bla bla. All crap and delusional false hopes. Looking forward to them getting exposed as well.

The players that play for Pakistan are the players that we have, and they are not good enough.

So Fakhar already proved you wrong lol This guy claims to know it all

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Bla bla bitterness bla.

You can be angry at those who have done something to disappoint to you.
But to be contemptuous of someone who has never been given a chance to play?

These are young men who have devoted their lives to this sport you claim to like. They
play it as well as anyone else in the country.

What has Sadaf done to deserve this contempt of yours? Why do you think
you are any more right about him than Yasir Shah?

In Pakistan you are failure for...being Pakistani. This is what you are saying.

It is very sad to read this, and frankly, if I may say so, borderline pathological.

Good post.I especially agree with the bolded part.

 

[New Yorker]

This is a serious question and I am sure in some variant this topic has been beaten to death but I felt inclined to pose it here again. What really ails us is clear thinking about the make up of a team, not just who plays.

I mean I look at some of them in the team and their roles and what they have done in T 20 for us and I seriously wonder if the think tank is even thinking straight.

I dont mean to bash any players here and I hope you guys dont do it either. I wanted to get some opinions on reasonable replacements for those who you dont think fit in the team and the reasons behind why they should be picked.

Discuss!

Sure. But is not about this player or that player. This kind of game always becomes childish. It is not about better options, because no on can know if an untested player is genuinely better. It is about creating a culture where trial and error is acknowledged as an unavoidable feature of the game.

The the shame lies not in not playing X player over Y player at any particular juncture, but in players who linger like a bad smell in the team for years - we know who they are - while others rot in domestics, topping ratings year in and year out without a whiff of a chance.

And here is the crucial point; it is a cop out to protest that X senior has had some useful knocks, he brings experience, we don't know if there is better at home blah blah No matter how good your playing XI, you can't know that someone better is not waiting in domestics until you try them. The problem is a systematic inability to sustain renewal and improvement.

It should be acknowledged that at any point in time, any team is likely to be carrying a player or two who is doing less well relatively speaking than others. That is not is a problem if team management and selectors are proactive in rotating players in and out of the team. Which means not just replacing players who are out of form, but also building a bench, giving chances in dead games, less important tours, to young talent.

And it is sadly unthinkable as of yet for the PCB to field a young trial side such as India are playing in the current series, let alone plan a few A tours to other countries. We simply don't give enough chances to new talent and the PSL has been accepted, sadly, as a cop-out half solution to this problem. These kinds of systemic issues are more concerning than the matter of two or three players.