Does England provide tougher wickets whenever India tours compared to other teams?

[Canford Cliffs]

First of all I am not at all justifying the horrible performance by our players...they are all rubbish. Secondly, this is also not an excuse thread.

But I have seen a trend, whenever Ind tours Eng, they get most hostile seaming conditions to play. I hv seen the same in 2011, 2014 and witnessing the same this series. The ball swung throughout the test match in Edgbaston and yesterday it was almost unplayable.

I have seen the SL tour of Eng in 2014, Pak touring there in 2016 and this year, WI winning the test there last year. I hv not seen hostile seaming conditions for any of those games. Now I totally agree that Indian batsmen are A grade HTBs but I disagree that the likes of Karunaratne, Haris Sohail or a Shahi Hope are better than Vijay, Kohli or Rahane.

I would love to see how other teams fare playing in Eng in similar conditions. But alas, we may never find that bcoz Eng choose to reserve these kind of pitches only when India tours.

 

[big_gamer007]

Indian batsmen inflate their stats playing on flat decks. Barring Kohli Pakistani batsmen like Azhar Ali, Harris Sohail are way better than any other Indian batsman in test matches for English conditions..

You need to accept the reality and accept the fact that the batsmen you listed are better than any Indian batsman in English conditions apart from kohli..

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Indian batsmen inflate their stats playing on flat decks. Barring Kohli Pakistani batsmen like Azhar Ali, Harris Sohail are way better than any other Indian batsman in test matches for English conditions..

You need to accept the reality and accept the fact that the batsmen you listed are better than any Indian batsman in English conditions apart from kohli..

Yesterday a statement came from Anderson in PC saying, they would have got any team out including his own team in these conditions. So imagine its coming from horses mouth itself

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Not trying to be boastful or anything but people on this forum really underrate Shafiq and Azhar in the Pakistan batting lineup. Those two have centuries in almost every test playing nation and are the backbone of our batting order.

Also, India just needs to separate players who have grit and determination with those that are selected because they play a beautiful cover drive. In places like England you need to put a price on your wicket and be restraint on not poking with hard hands. The only two people who do that right now are Kohli and Ashwin and maybe Pujara (but he's horribly out of form).

Stop selecting superstars and go with players who (a) Have the capacity, tenacity and the patience to take the game for a full 5 days and (b) Are committed to test cricket and test cricket alone. You can't expect guys who have made their careers playing LOIs and Quick Cash leagues and then come and dominate foreign tours under alien conditions.

 

[ethan hunt]

If its a tough wicket than just bowl the English out for 80 odd and win the match.
India have been a poor touring team since time immemorial , whats with the shock and horror.
Just because pakistan can win in England doesnt mean poor tourists like India can as well.

 

[Robert]

First of all I am not at all justifying the horrible performance by our players...they are all rubbish. Secondly, this is also not an excuse thread.

But I have seen a trend, whenever Ind tours Eng, they get most hostile seaming conditions to play. I hv seen the same in 2011, 2014 and witnessing the same this series. The ball swung throughout the test match in Edgbaston and yesterday it was almost unplayable.

I have seen the SL tour of Eng in 2014, Pak touring there in 2016 and this year, WI winning the test there last year. I hv not seen hostile seaming conditions for any of those games. Now I totally agree that Indian batsmen are A grade HTBs but I disagree that the likes of Karunaratne, Haris Sohail or a Shahi Hope are better than Vijay, Kohli or Rahane.

I would love to see how other teams fare playing in Eng in similar conditions. But alas, we may never find that bcoz Eng choose to reserve these kind of pitches only when India tours.

Don’t mix up seam and swing. The wicket has no effect on orthodox swing.

If anything, I would expect India to bat well on these decks which have been under strong sun for months.

However, Strauss has a weather machine which he deploys just to torment India. The machine makes the ball swing. He likes Pakistan and keeps the machine switched off when they tour.

 

[Romali_rotti]

A little ridiculous, I felt the last match wicket was nothing unplayable, it had a bit of movement but a world class batsmen should be able to play on it fine. Indians just batted poorly in the first match, the current match was all about the stop start and cloud, had ENG batted first I have no doubt they would have been rolled out for a similar score.... Game still not over yet, this will be a good series but these castways like Dinesh Karthik, Umesh Yadav's etc has to GO!!!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Not trying to be boastful or anything but people on this forum really underrate Shafiq and Azhar in the Pakistan batting lineup. Those two have centuries in almost every test playing nation and are the backbone of our batting order.

Also, India just needs to separate players who have grit and determination with those that are selected because they play a beautiful cover drive. In places like England you need to put a price on your wicket and be restraint on not poking with hard hands. The only two people who do that right now are Kohli and Ashwin and maybe Pujara (but he's horribly out of form).

Stop selecting superstars and go with players who (a) Have the capacity, tenacity and the patience to take the game for a full 5 days and (b) Are committed to test cricket and test cricket alone. You can't expect guys who have made their careers playing LOIs and Quick Cash leagues and then come and dominate foreign tours under alien conditions.

Vijay and Rahane are also more than capable and gritty batters. Vijay puts a higher price on his wicket than others in Indian Team tbh, but the thing is, I feel the ship has sailed for him and he has regressed a bit too badly.
If you look at his batting in 2013-2015, he was brilliant in negotiating the new ball, was more aware of his off stump than any other. But now, he looks totally confused and a different bat. It could be due to their team management crying for "aggression" and "intent", which has made him poking his bat out any thing outside off, something Vijay of 2014 would never do. Even Rahul started out as a defensive batter, but he has changed his game now and is more of a blitzer rather than a grinder.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

No lolz.

At Leads Pakistan lasted 48.1 and 46 overs. English bowlers are too good. Credit to them.

At Lord's barring Babar Azam and Root everyone struggled. We won this game due to Shadab/Faheem partnership and our ability to take 20 wickets.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Don’t mix up seam and swing. The wicket has no effect on orthodox swing.

If anything, I would expect India to bat well on these decks which have been under strong sun for months.

However, Strauss has a weather machine which he deploys just to torment India. The machine makes the ball swing. He likes Pakistan and keeps the machine switched off when they tour.

Isn't Flower filling in for Strauss these days?

 

[gani999]

Don’t mix up seam and swing. The wicket has no effect on orthodox swing.

If anything, I would expect India to bat well on these decks which have been under strong sun for months.

However, Strauss has a weather machine which he deploys just to torment India. The machine makes the ball swing. He likes Pakistan and keeps the machine switched off when they tour.

Thanks for your kind words of encouragement mate.

But I'll maintain for now that India lost because they are overhyped and rubbish. The English pitches, weather, lack of vegetarian options in the menu, Andrew Stauss, the tooth fairy, Queen Elizabeth etc have sweet FA to do with it.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

For Pakistan, England also has to factor their bowling lineup.

Give Abbas, Amir, Hasan, Faheem, and even Mir Hamza a wicket that seams (or a type of wicket that you are describing) and they would destroy Englands batting line up, and yes, Pakistans batting line up would also be up against it, but credit needs to be given, they have done a fairly decent job. We have not lost to England in a test series for nearly a decade (we play a test series vs England in 2020, last time we lost was back in 2010, that dreadful tour).

 

[Robert]

Thanks for your kind words of encouragement mate.

But I'll maintain for now that India lost because they are overhyped and rubbish. The English pitches, weather, lack of vegetarian options in the menu, Andrew Stauss, the tooth fairy, Queen Elizabeth etc have sweet FA to do with it.

Pakistan won at Lord’s in similar conditions this year. In fact even tougher conditions, because the wicket was damp in the spring. They applied great commitment in their fast bowling and fielding, and disciplined batting against very good seam and swing bowling to get enough runs to win.

 

[happydavy]

Even if england does that then it's absolutely justified. The kind of pitches India has started preparing ever since Kohli became captain are ridiculous. Jadeja-Ashwin bowling 10 overs in the first session itself. What I don't get it what exactly do Shastri and Kohli achieve by winning such matches, most Indians don't care about such victories. We very well know that on Indian pitches, with nothing for anyone baring spinners, even India A batsmen will score double and triple centuries and that's why we don't care much abt batting records in India.

They are only embarrassing themselves by scoring heaps of runs on Indian pitches and struggling to put bat to ball on slightly challenging conditions.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

We couldn't play practice games and say it's too low for our standard to play county teams and, here we start complaining about pitches. We would have been bowled out even against county bowlers, I reckon. Our fans deserve this humiliation, as we were in need of a reality check, after playing decades on 5th day turning pitches from day 1. And our "patriotic" fan was saying how can we play a 85 mph leg spinner..lol

 

[Markhor]

The OP hasn't watched enough cricket in England if that's what he believes. Did you not see the Lord's Test against WI last year ? There was plenty of assistance for the seamers.

SL were tormented in 2016 by the English bowlers using the conditions, and PAK fell apart at Headingley where the ball seamed and swung two months ago.

South Africa also faced tricky conditions last year and collapsed time and again.

Australia got two green wickets at Edgbaston and Trent Bridge where they collapsed horribly.

 

[Markhor]

No lolz.

At Leads Pakistan lasted 48.1 and 46 overs. English bowlers are too good. Credit to them.

At Lord's barring Babar Azam and Root everyone struggled. We won this game due to Shadab/Faheem partnership and our ability to take 20 wickets.

Not really, at Lord's the only batsmen who failed on our side were Imam and Sarfraz.

Azhar scored a vital fifty and blunted the new ball in gloomy conditions with Haris in that crucial final session on Day 1. Shafiq got a fifty and put on a good partnership with Babar, and Shadab/Faheem were able to extend the lead to a matchwinning advantage.

 

[Stewie]

Manjreksr has it right.. IPL has destroyed their defensive techniques..

 

[barah_admi]

First of all I am not at all justifying the horrible performance by our players...they are all rubbish. Secondly, this is also not an excuse thread.

But I have seen a trend, whenever Ind tours Eng, they get most hostile seaming conditions to play. I hv seen the same in 2011, 2014 and witnessing the same this series. The ball swung throughout the test match in Edgbaston and yesterday it was almost unplayable.

I have seen the SL tour of Eng in 2014, Pak touring there in 2016 and this year, WI winning the test there last year. I hv not seen hostile seaming conditions for any of those games. Now I totally agree that Indian batsmen are A grade HTBs but I disagree that the likes of Karunaratne, Haris Sohail or a Shahi Hope are better than Vijay, Kohli or Rahane.

I would love to see how other teams fare playing in Eng in similar conditions. But alas, we may never find that bcoz Eng choose to reserve these kind of pitches only when India tours.

LOOL what????

Pakistan played their most recent series in genuine swinging conditions, in MUCH cooler temperatures on better wickets and went 1-1.

India played their first test of the series in perfect batting conditions. The sun was scorching hot (Indians were complaining it was too hot), the pitch was yellow with dead grass and they still couldn't win...

Now the overcast conditions changed the second day of the test but the pitch, once again, is hardly treacherous. There is a spattering of grass and if the Indians can't play on anything other than dust bowls, maybe they should refuse to play outside of Asia and the WIs.

 

[big_gamer007]

Yesterday a statement came from Anderson in PC saying, they would have got any team out including his own team in these conditions. So imagine its coming from horses mouth itself

It’s not about just this innings this has been going on since forever.. This was the best chance to win in England, our bowling was best ever in our history for away conditions and England were at their weakest coming off drubbings and out of form and over the hill players..

If we can’t even win now we will probably never win..

 

[big_gamer007]

Even if england does that then it's absolutely justified. The kind of pitches India has started preparing ever since Kohli became captain are ridiculous. Jadeja-Ashwin bowling 10 overs in the first session itself. What I don't get it what exactly do Shastri and Kohli achieve by winning such matches, most Indians don't care about such victories. We very well know that on Indian pitches, with nothing for anyone baring spinners, even India A batsmen will score double and triple centuries and that's why we don't care much abt batting records in India.

They are only embarrassing themselves by scoring heaps of runs on Indian pitches and struggling to put bat to ball on slightly challenging conditions.

Absolutely wrong.. The indian public cares about victories at home.. The batsmen are made into gods when they score double hundreds and advertisement and media outlets get their superstars..

Only few people care about winning overseas and good competitive cricket but these people are in minority.. The majority of indian public wants to see us winning and we win at home due to spin tracks and that is how it has always been and always will be..

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Pakistan gets the tougher wickets.

 

[Noman]

no Indian batsman are the worst against swing bowling. Bounce India can handle but Pakistan have better batsman against swing bowling

 

[adzzy786]

Don’t mix up seam and swing. The wicket has no effect on orthodox swing.

If anything, I would expect India to bat well on these decks which have been under strong sun for months.

However, Strauss has a weather machine which he deploys just to torment India. The machine makes the ball swing. He likes Pakistan and keeps the machine switched off when they tour.

Agreed 100%- can not take credit away from England bowled beautifully and outplayed India’ yesterday.

P.s. Do you know where I could get one of these machines? Could really do with one.

 

[Zaz]

Nope Generally england pitches always have a little bit in them for the seamers but its very rare the pitches are green

Its the overhead conditions really that make the difference and that was what caused the excessive swing we witnessed yday as opposed to thewicket doing a lot

England also has the quality of bowlers to extract the conditions to the max

Indian batsmen playing on their flat home tracks are just not good enough to deal with different conditions hence why they have poor records not only in england but in many other countries too

 

[Boi]

) India are playing these Tests after a record breaking heatwave summer in the UK. These are the driest conditions you will get yet the fans are still complaining.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

First of all I am not at all justifying the horrible performance by our players...they are all rubbish. Secondly, this is also not an excuse thread.

But I have seen a trend, whenever Ind tours Eng, they get most hostile seaming conditions to play. I hv seen the same in 2011, 2014 and witnessing the same this series. The ball swung throughout the test match in Edgbaston and yesterday it was almost unplayable.

I have seen the SL tour of Eng in 2014, Pak touring there in 2016 and this year, WI winning the test there last year. I hv not seen hostile seaming conditions for any of those games. Now I totally agree that Indian batsmen are A grade HTBs but I disagree that the likes of Karunaratne, Haris Sohail or a Shahi Hope are better than Vijay, Kohli or Rahane.

I would love to see how other teams fare playing in Eng in similar conditions. But alas, we may never find that bcoz Eng choose to reserve these kind of pitches only when India tours.

Excuses after excuses. I thought you were an optimistic guy and india will win this series by 3-1? What happened now?

 

[CricVet]

Going by ops previous posts, he has not been watching cricket for long as I take it. Of course, when we are younger, emotions overshadow the logic. This thread is just echoing something called whining.

 

[Boi]

Not really, at Lord's the only batsmen who failed on our side were Imam and Sarfraz.

Azhar scored a vital fifty and blunted the new ball in gloomy conditions with Haris in that crucial final session on Day 1. Shafiq got a fifty and put on a good partnership with Babar, and Shadab/Faheem were able to extend the lead to a matchwinning advantage.

The conditions in that evening session on Day 1 at Lords were the toughest seen so far this summer. Heavy clouds, gloomy, floodlights on and Azhar along with Haris battled through it to set up the game for Pakistan.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Yes.

It’s all part of the plan

 

[ChuckLee]

Hahahahahahahahah

 

[Adijazz1706]

No problems for even Woakes here who is more of a bowling AR but it's a tough pitch apparently

 

[akki]

Indian cricketers are millionaires or probably billionaires. Do they really care ?? They will win all the matches in india and play ipl meanwhile .
Shastri is like having the world best job to get all the bucks free and do nothing.
Kohli is more interested to show his love for his queen anushka and showing all other men in the world that they are foolish and dnt know how to love a women.he is lucky that he has scored in england this time and he will escape abuses which he deserves for his captaincy and how to take his team along

 

[Shutdown Corner]

The first test had a spinning wicket which nullifies any home advantage for England. Its like if India prepared a greentop in Delhi for an England tour.

A real minefield of a wicket would actually even the contest in favor of the weaker side in those specific conditions. Check out Pune 2017. Rank turner which threw the game in Australia's favor. Same with J'burg 2018. Another minefield which made India's seam attack as equals to South Africa's.

 

[RainMan_]

The first test had a spinning wicket which nullifies any home advantage for England. Its like if India prepared a greentop in Delhi for an England tour.

A real minefield of a wicket would actually even the contest in favor of the weaker side in those specific conditions. Check out Pune 2017. Rank turner which threw the game in Australia's favor. Same with J'burg 2018. Another minefield which made India's seam attack as equals to South Africa's.

If u think that the first test was played on a spin friendly wicket then either u didn't watch the first test or lacks basic understanding about how a spin friendly wicket acts like.

The first test was played on a doctored green top where even 50 overs old ball moved on and off the pitch. Both teams played with four front line pacers and majority of the wickets were taken by the pacers. If u wanna know what a spin friendly pitch looks like, look no further than the pitch that was dished out to England the last time they visited us in Mirpur.

As for the topic of this thread, yes, I think England intentionally preoares doctored green tops whenever India visits them and cry for being discriminated if India do the sane to them in their home by preparing turning wickets. Yesterday's pitch was absolutely horrible. Toss shouldn't give this much advantage to a team. It's like a win the toss, win the match type pitch.

 

[The_Odd_One]

That's taking whining to a whole new level. How can England control weather?

 

[Slog]

2010 England conditions were the toughest I've ever seen

 

[desirous of desire]

India k khilaaf England bary bary larkay ley aata ha...

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

2010 England conditions were the toughest I've ever seen

The ball was swinging corners in that series! Freaking Umer Amin was taking wickets on that tour

 

[CricVet]

ECB has a secret cloud maker used especially against Ind.<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/10yWBpRxwnCJCo" width="480" height="240" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/we-just-engine-10yWBpRxwnCJCo">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[Square Drive]

)

Indians phir ro rahe hain.

 

[AZulfi]

India's best chance of winning was in Edgbaston when the wicket was dry with temperatures reaching 29-33c on most days. Now it is more English type weather conditions and the ball is seaming and swinging around a lot more. In the first innings @ Lords too many Indian batsmen went harder at the ball and perished. They only succeeded in giving simple catching practice to the slips. Indian batsmen are likely to encounter similar conditions in the remaining part of the series and unless they quickly learn the art of playing with soft hands and staying at the wicket they will struggle badly...

 

[Titan24]

For Pakistan, England also has to factor their bowling lineup.

Give Abbas, Amir, Hasan, Faheem, and even Mir Hamza a wicket that seams (or a type of wicket that you are describing) and they would destroy Englands batting line up, and yes, Pakistans batting line up would also be up against it, but credit needs to be given, they have done a fairly decent job. We have not lost to England in a test series for nearly a decade (we play a test series vs England in 2020, last time we lost was back in 2010, that dreadful tour).

Actually a good point, i dont know how much control England team has over the pitches but if they have any they are obviously gonna take into account the threat of opposition bowlers.

 

[Titan24]

First of all I am not at all justifying the horrible performance by our players...they are all rubbish. Secondly, this is also not an excuse thread.

But I have seen a trend, whenever Ind tours Eng, they get most hostile seaming conditions to play. I hv seen the same in 2011, 2014 and witnessing the same this series. The ball swung throughout the test match in Edgbaston and yesterday it was almost unplayable.

I have seen the SL tour of Eng in 2014, Pak touring there in 2016 and this year, WI winning the test there last year. I hv not seen hostile seaming conditions for any of those games. Now I totally agree that Indian batsmen are A grade HTBs but I disagree that the likes of Karunaratne, Haris Sohail or a Shahi Hope are better than Vijay, Kohli or Rahane.

I would love to see how other teams fare playing in Eng in similar conditions. But alas, we may never find that bcoz Eng choose to reserve these kind of pitches only when India tours.

May be because Eng doesnt wanna win against other side..

 

[Markhor]

The first test was played on a doctored green top where even 50 overs old ball moved on and off the pitch.

Is that why England won the toss and chose to bat first ?

The pitch at Lord's in 2014 was way more doctored than the pitches in this series - and even in that match it backfired on England.

The reason the ball keeps swinging after 50 overs is because the Dukes ball holds its shape and shine for longer.

The conditions were tough at Lord's for India's 1st innings but the likes of Dravid and Gavaskar would've found a way to survive and got the team to 200-220 at least. There were at least two or three needless dismissals not to mention a run out.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

English pitches don't aren't that assisting to seamers,. It's mostly the swing due to overcast condition. England rarely produces fully green pitches like South Africa.

Swing and seam movement are not the same. Swing is due to air, and seam movement is off the pitch.

 

[Robert]

If u think that the first test was played on a spin friendly wicket then either u didn't watch the first test or lacks basic understanding about how a spin friendly wicket acts like.

The first test was played on a doctored green top where even 50 overs old ball moved on and off the pitch. Both teams played with four front line pacers and majority of the wickets were taken by the pacers. If u wanna know what a spin friendly pitch looks like, look no further than the pitch that was dished out to England the last time they visited us in Mirpur.

As for the topic of this thread, yes, I think England intentionally preoares doctored green tops whenever India visits them and cry for being discriminated if India do the sane to them in their home by preparing turning wickets. Yesterday's pitch was absolutely horrible. Toss shouldn't give this much advantage to a team. It's like a win the toss, win the match type pitch.

No they don’t. You expect turners in India.

The pitch is fine. Gavaskar, Engineer, Amanarth, Vengsarkar, Azhar, SRT, Dravid would all get runs on it. This current lot have no clue how to bat against lateral movement.

 

[Robert]

English pitches don't aren't that assisting to seamers,. It's mostly the swing due to overcast condition. England rarely produces fully green pitches like South Africa.

Swing and seam movement are not the same. Swing is due to air, and seam movement is off the pitch.

[MENTION=142823]Joseph Gomes[/MENTION] gets it.

 

[happydavy]

TBH pitches could be an excuse if you get folded for under 200 runs. When you are barely scoring 100 then it's do with lack of capability. Recently, there was some random odi series in India with guess who Sri Lanka. In one of the matches, where it rained, India was like 40/5 or something. Imagine unable to bat on Indian pitches because of so called overcast conditions.

 

[Kaka4pope]

India’s first innings at lords, very very tricky conditions, perhaps Pakistan might have lasted a little longer but only by virtue of dot balls and coming back the following morning. And to be fair, Jimmy & co weren’t giving too many balls that could be left alone...

India do have the better batting line-up compared to Pak, more stroke makers too, however it shouldn’t take away from the likes of Azhar who, despite a dip in form, is a grafter - that once in, tends to go big.

 

[Monsee]

Yesterday a statement came from Anderson in PC saying, they would have got any team out including his own team in these conditions. So imagine its coming from horses mouth itself

Simple bhai, what if India had won the toss, what excuse would you have come up with then; in a test, it is not as if:
(1) home team is guaranteed to win the toss
(2) They always get the best of conditions since unlike an ODI it is played on 5 days and over 4 innings?

Also, all Indian fans have been heaping praises on their own attack and how if someone makes fast and seaming pitches, we will have an advantage due to the fast bowlers they have in the attack? It is not as if England told Kohli to drop one of the fast bowlers!

 

[MMHS]

Absolutely wrong.. The indian public cares about victories at home.. The batsmen are made into gods when they score double hundreds and advertisement and media outlets get their superstars..

Only few people care about winning overseas and good competitive cricket but these people are in minority.. The majority of indian public wants to see us winning and we win at home due to spin tracks and that is how it has always been and always will be..

I don't think it's the fault of mass people - they are often fooled by cricket media. Commercial stakes are so high in IND for cricket that media (paid by sponsors) always needs to keep the players/Team IND floating high. Hardly any common man spends 2 hours on analyzing game, therefore most of them blindly follows what they are fed.

Easiest trick for that is using distractions when performance are down and repeatedly feed the glory moments - out come is glorifying home performance time & again, and don't educate people to realize how tough & important it's to win away and don't remind them the losses. Long back, ESPNStar used to show repeatedly highlights of only games won by IND and that too edited with IND's batting and wickets taken by the Indian bowlers. So, it ended up like only win of 1999 WSC (Adelaide), was shown probably 50 times in next few months.

A classic recent example is the ad 25 saal ka badla. That commercial started focusing Test cricket, then they stopped the ad after 2nd Test - 4 weeks later it came back after ODI Series with a tag line something like Badla completed or such.

 

[Slog]

Yesterday a statement came from Anderson in PC saying, they would have got any team out including his own team in these conditions. So imagine its coming from horses mouth itself

Lmao this is really clutching at straws

What did you expect Anderson to say?

"No we are actually very average and just got this Indian batting out. However don't expect us to be this good against other line ups!"

 

[msb314]

Not trying to be boastful or anything but people on this forum really underrate Shafiq and Azhar in the Pakistan batting lineup. Those two have centuries in almost every test playing nation and are the backbone of our batting order.

Also, India just needs to separate players who have grit and determination with those that are selected because they play a beautiful cover drive. In places like England you need to put a price on your wicket and be restraint on not poking with hard hands. The only two people who do that right now are Kohli and Ashwin and maybe Pujara (but he's horribly out of form).

Stop selecting superstars and go with players who (a) Have the capacity, tenacity and the patience to take the game for a full 5 days and (b) Are committed to test cricket and test cricket alone. You can't expect guys who have made their careers playing LOIs and Quick Cash leagues and then come and dominate foreign tours under alien conditions.

No use of "centuries in almost every test playing nation" when you fail in the remaining 4-5 innings.

There is a reason both average in the lower 40's.

Their contributions have been useful but they are both far from being top class batsman. Personally - I think [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is right - Azhar has started declining now and may soon find himself dropped.

 

[Mobashir]

No use of "centuries in almost every test playing nation" when you fail in the remaining 4-5 innings.

There is a reason both average in the lower 40's.

Their contributions have been useful but they are both far from being top class batsman. Personally - I think [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is right - Azhar has started declining now and may soon find himself dropped.

The same reason that Vijay and Rahul averages in the high 30’s? And Rahane in the low 40’s?

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Shame that our fans are going Bangla way. Crying and giving lame excuses.

 

[RamLakhan]

The team is disintegrated... However I think the opposition are trying to take advantage of this weakness (IPL hit Indian batsmen who have lost their defense!) They know that if the pitches are flat, then the matches will be drawn, and if the pitches are sportive then they get through the defense of Indian batsmen easily! However in the past (Sachin/Dravid era) teams had different ploy, they saw the weakness (bowling) in Indian team and made sure that the pitches were flat so that their batsmen could score monstrous runs to put pressure on Indian batting. So usually the matches were drawn & some wins because of scoreboard pressure & better bowling resources!

Hence if the cases are reversed (flat pitches now and sportive pitches then), India would have better chance of winning... Of course these are not in our hands... However the management & captaincy is making matters worse with their idiotic plans (the worst of it is visualizing Dhawan & Rohit as test batsmen! It will spoil their LOI batting as well, just watch it! Also Rahul - the test batsman has gone now! You will not see him bat like he did against Australia even at home, mark my words!) Shastri & Kohli (if they continue) or going to kill Indian Cricket completely & will reach below West Indies & Bangladesh cricket in years to come... (Only good thing that can happen is people will start losing interest in IPL!)

 

[RamLakhan]

Bad days ahead of Indian Cricket... They will become like West Indies team of late 90s... Kohli will be the new Lara and Indian fans should enjoy just his batting (maybe 400+ personal milestone in home test match!) It won't even be like Indian team of Sachin era which used to play well in some patches! If teams decode Jadeja/Ashwin at home test matches, then even home wins will get difficult!

 

[big_gamer007]

I don't think it's the fault of mass people - they are often fooled by cricket media. Commercial stakes are so high in IND for cricket that media (paid by sponsors) always needs to keep the players/Team IND floating high. Hardly any common man spends 2 hours on analyzing game, therefore most of them blindly follows what they are fed.

Easiest trick for that is using distractions when performance are down and repeatedly feed the glory moments - out come is glorifying home performance time & again, and don't educate people to realize how tough & important it's to win away and don't remind them the losses. Long back, ESPNStar used to show repeatedly highlights of only games won by IND and that too edited with IND's batting and wickets taken by the Indian bowlers. So, it ended up like only win of 1999 WSC (Adelaide), was shown probably 50 times in next few months.

A classic recent example is the ad 25 saal ka badla. That commercial started focusing Test cricket, then they stopped the ad after 2nd Test - 4 weeks later it came back after ODI Series with a tag line something like Badla completed or such.

You are right but end of the day the public are happy witb wins at home and forget losses away to just don’t care about them be it for whatever reasons.

 

[Fahdi]

Obviously the English have a pitch control mechanism allowing them to change the condition of the pitch like the thermostat of an air conditioner. As soon as it's India's turn to bat they have switched it to "swinging".

 

[lehen]

Pakistan batting is miles ahead o Indian batting, that is the basic difference.
England batted when sun was shining and the pitch was a belter to bat on. However although hard, it was still a wicket where one can score 250 when India batted after losing the toss on a seaming pitch

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Rather than making excuses I think we should pack our bags silently and run as fast as we can from patli gully.

 

[mkyawar]

Guys relax, its a 5 test series

 

[lehen]

Shame that our fans are going Bangla way. Crying and giving lame excuses.

There is no excuse, we are carrying 5-6 passengers for 2-3 years now. I say if kohli has guts get 4-5 19-20 yr old kids like Shaw, Gill, Pant, Mayank and give them a free run for 1 year

 

[Monsee]

Guys relax, its a 5 test series

I agree, let's just wait till the end of the 3rd test or even better yet, end of the series

 

[CricVet]

Bad days ahead of Indian Cricket... They will become like West Indies team of late 90s... Kohli will be the new Lara and Indian fans should enjoy just his batting (maybe 400+ personal milestone in home test match!) It won't even be like Indian team of Sachin era which used to play well in some patches! If teams decode Jadeja/Ashwin at home test matches, then even home wins will get difficult!

Hyper Ventilated reaction. WI cricket is regressed for politics and most of their talent being drawn to other sports. Ind has ONLY when measure sport. Ind will never be finished in cricket.

 

[Darkrai]

No, Indian batsmen just haven't been good enough.

 

[Savak]

The so called best batting line up in the world talking about tough wickets. This is what seperates the boys from men and the way cricket was played in the 70's-2000's in comparison to the flat wicket era of today.

 

[msb314]

The same reason that Vijay and Rahul averages in the high 30’s? And Rahane in the low 40’s?

Yes.

Rahul probably has more time on his side but Rahane and Vijay are in the same boat as Shafiq and Azhar.

 

[giri26]

Nope, Indian batting is just incompetent. I feel that Vijay and Pujara need to go at the end of this series. We don't want a subcontinent specialist in the team. Vijay needs to make way for Prithvi shaw. India are losing anyways, might as well lose with some young players. Bring in new new players in the team and I don't mind getting thrashed. For the next Test bring in Karun Nair, Rishabh Pant in place of Pujara and Karthik.

 

[Hawkeye]

It's our time to glorify our dud batsmen like Shafiq.

You can't be taken as a serious cricket fan if you start rating him above the likes of Rahane/Pujara.

Azhar is decent because of strong focus on defense only. But yeah Babar, Imam, Harris have potential.

These conditions are tougher indeed btw.

 

[kuskash]

Rather than making excuses I think we should pack our bags silently and run as fast as we can from patli gully.

Not an advise suited by a true fan.

Team should man up, face the challenge, try your best regardless of result. Make appropriate changes. Running away is just a bandage not a solution to a problem.

 

[Savak]

India’s first innings at lords, very very tricky conditions, perhaps Pakistan might have lasted a little longer but only by virtue of dot balls and coming back the following morning. And to be fair, Jimmy & co weren’t giving too many balls that could be left alone...

India do have the better batting line-up compared to Pak, more stroke makers too, however it shouldn’t take away from the likes of Azhar who, despite a dip in form, is a grafter - that once in, tends to go big.

This is the problem with the Indian batting approach and even Kohli, these conditions require grafting and 50's off 150-200 balls. Apart from Pujara, everyone else loves to play their strokes and get bat on ball.

 

[Aman]

Embarrassing, you've been pumped good. Take the 0-5 phainty with some class.