Does Pakistan deserve a 5-match Test series more than India in England?

[saeed5646]

But we hasn't lost to Zimbabwe srilanka and westindies in tests
IN THIS DECADE

cricket start from this decade?

 

[the_outsider]

Southern Cross Trophy (Australia in Zimbabwe) 1999/00 Australia 1-0 (1)

South Africa v Zimbabwe Test Series (in South Africa/Zimbabwe) 1999/00 South Africa 2-0 (2)

Sri Lanka in Zimbabwe Test Series 1999/00 Sri Lanka 1-0 (3)

Zimbabwe in West Indies Test Series 1999 West Indies 2-0 (2)

Zimbabwe in England Test Series 2000 England 1-0 (2)

New Zealand in Zimbabwe Test Series 2000/01 New Zealand 2-0 (2)

Zimbabwe in India Test Series 2000/01 India 1-0 (2)

Zimbabwe in New Zealand Test Match 2000/01 drawn 0-0 (1)

Bangladesh in Zimbabwe Test Series 2000/01 Zimbabwe 2-0 (2)

India in Zimbabwe Test Series 2001 drawn 1-1 (2)

Clive Lloyd Trophy (West Indies in Zimbabwe) 2001 West Indies 1-0 (2)

South Africa in Zimbabwe Test Series 2001/02 South Africa 1-0 (2)

Zimbabwe in Bangladesh Test Series 2001/02 Zimbabwe 1-0 (2)

Zimbabwe in Sri Lanka Test Series 2001/02 Sri Lanka 3-0 (3)

Zimbabwe in India Test Series 2001/02 India 2-0 (2)

Pakistan in Zimbabwe Test Series 2002/03 Pakistan 2-0 (2

impressive ZIm test record ISN'T

Zimbabwe's test rating points when they met India in 2001 was 62 points.

The highest ranked Zimbabwen batsman then was A Flower (number 1) and highest ranked bowler was H Streak (number 5).



The Zimbabwe that beat Pakistan in 2014 had a rating point of 35.

In 2014, the highest ranked batsman for Zim was H Masakadza (number 35) and highest ranked bowler was C Mpofu (number 55).

I hope that makes it clear once and for all.

 

[saeed5646]

Zimbabwe's test rating points when they met India in 2001 was 62 points.

The highest ranked Zimbabwen batsman when was A Flower (number 1) and highest ranked bowler was H Streak (number 5).



The Zimbabwe that beat Pakistan in 2014 had a rating point of 35.

In 2014, the highest ranked batsman for Zim was H Masakadza (number 35) and highest ranked bowler was C Mpofu (number 55).

I hope that makes it clear once and for all.

cry me river you did not answer what has 2001 OF zim achieve how many test they won which beat mighty india,

ZIM of 2001 Was as bad it was 2014 zim both were rubbish and my stats prove that .I hope you do understand that india can lose to minnow like zim it is part of cricket

 

[the_outsider]

cry me river you did not answer what has 2001 OF zim achieve how many test they won which beat mighty india,

ZIM of 2001 Was as bad it was 2014 zim both were rubbish and my stats prove that .I hope you do understand that india can lose to minnow like zim it is part of cricket

If you can find me just 1 neutral poster here on PP who agrees with you that there is no difference between 2001 and 2014 Zim then I will also agree with you.

 

[Pakhs]

Pakistan definitely play enough in England.

 

[saeed5646]

If you can find me just 1 neutral poster here on PP who agrees with you that there is no difference between 2001 and 2014 Zim then I will also agree with you.

ok lets assume zim was good . india had a legend like Sachin,GANGULY,Dravid was playing

So now you tell me Zim team was better than that indian team?

 

[Finisher]

I think i need to dig some stats
Once in a liftime legendary 90s team lose to Zimbabwean team at home in test serieswhat about that series

Yes they did and they also beat india in 98 test series.

 

[Finisher]

Zimbabwe's test rating points when they met India in 2001 was 62 points.

The highest ranked Zimbabwen batsman then was A Flower (number 1) and highest ranked bowler was H Streak (number 5).



The Zimbabwe that beat Pakistan in 2014 had a rating point of 35.

In 2014, the highest ranked batsman for Zim was H Masakadza (number 35) and highest ranked bowler was C Mpofu (number 55).

I hope that makes it clear once and for all.

Doesn't India have a test series draw against Bangladesh?

 

[the_outsider]

Doesn't India have a test series draw against Bangladesh?

Not really. It was a 1 test match series which was washed out for 3 days. So the match ended in a draw. Only 175 overs were bowled in that match. The match ended with Bangladesh at 23/0 in their 2nd innings, following on and trailing by 190 odd runs.

 

[barah_admi]

India only surrenderd in 2ndtest only
Other 2tests are very competitive i think you are not watching this series

It's not competitive to get bowled out easily in your second innings. There have been some good moments by India, sessions even but it has largely been dominated by England.

 

[the_outsider]

It's not competitive to get bowled out easily in your second innings. There have been some good moments by India, sessions even but it has largely been dominated by England.

Unsurprisingly, none of the Sky commentators, Butler, Broad or even England captain Joe Root agree with you.

 

[barah_admi]

Yet ECB says that India and Ashes series are their money spinners.

Ticket sales are only miniscule part of the revenue. Most revenues come from the tv rights and Ads.

I don't know when the ECB said that, if they did so, that is fine. My point is Pakistan are also huge draws over here in England, had massive ticket sales in Australia (before the Ashes, they had the largest sales for a day/night test in Australia) etc etc

The point is, Australia are by far the biggest money makers in England but Pakistan is not so far behind India, which is leagues behind Australia. So a 5 test series would be hugely profitable and was favourably spoken about by everyone at Sky in 2016. Not sure why it has not materialised but may be it will, may be it won't.

 

[RamLakhan]

Going by the same logic, nobody should tour to India so that we can have 3 IPLs round the year! (Even we will stop touring) Lets destroy Test Cricket altogether!

 

[OmarKhan99]

How can pakistan fans behave with this much arrogance you cant beat a deplated srilankan team and they think they are world beaters

Bro, be subtle. You seem very desperate - constantly reiterating the same thing.

 

[Finisher]

Not really. It was a 1 test match series which was washed out for 3 days. So the match ended in a draw. Only 175 overs were bowled in that match. The match ended with Bangladesh at 23/0 in their 2nd innings, following on and trailing by 190 odd runs.

Well the end result was a drawn series

 

[Balthazar]

I don't know when the ECB said that, if they did so, that is fine. My point is Pakistan are also huge draws over here in England, had massive ticket sales in Australia (before the Ashes, they had the largest sales for a day/night test in Australia) etc etc

You say it's a huge draw, but the same is not reciprocated by the number of matches they play. A 2 match test series cannot be called a big event, as that's the number you usually allot to minnows. And there's no consistency to these matches either, one time they play 2 matches, in the other series they play 3. But when India and Australia play, they always play a fixed number of matches, that's how the big series are defined.

 

[TalhaSyed]

In the last decade India has played 14 Tests in England - winning 2 and losing 10 (a W/L ratio of 0.2)

During the same time Pakistan has played 12 Tests in England - winning 5 and losing 7 (a W/L ratio of 0.7)

I'm just pointing out that India hasn't played that many more Tests compared to Pakistan in England...

 

[the_outsider]

Well the end result was a drawn series

If you're that desperate then, yes.

 

[Cricketfannn]

I don’t think our fans would be keen to go far with this logic. If this is the case, Pakistan does not deserve even a single match in Australia.

Then our team india don't deserve even to go out of india especially in tests ..coz our team is more stronger ,more superstar players ..still we cant win ..and pakistan team with so many limitations and no home series performed so nicely in England ..this year the pakistan team travelled england in2018 and draw the series ..our indian A team batting line is stronger that than pakistan batting line ..you should appreciate how they played at Lords

 

[Hasan123]

SL played a 2 test match series

3 tests in 2016

 

[yasir]

That's wrong.

2007 India won the series against England in England.

I am talking about full series(4/5) test, they have never won or drew such a series. 2/3 test series are different, India has won 2/3 of those...I don't consider them same

 

[yasir]

Just from the last decade, India drew the series in 2002 and won the series in 2007.

As I said, many times before, India has only mange to win or draw short test series(2/3) not the main or full series(4/5) test. Where as Pakistan drew its very first series in England back in 1954(4 test series 1-1).

Please take a look at my post 144 (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ate-England-this-summer&p=9780514#post9780514) for detail stats on all series in ENG between PAK and IND....

 

[barah_admi]

You say it's a huge draw, but the same is not reciprocated by the number of matches they play. A 2 match test series cannot be called a big event, as that's the number you usually allot to minnows. And there's no consistency to these matches either, one time they play 2 matches, in the other series they play 3. But when India and Australia play, they always play a fixed number of matches, that's how the big series are defined.

No, that's got nothing to define a big series. Bottom line is this, for the Eng v Ind series, which was the premier series of the summer, ticket sales were abysmal and apart from Lords, have continued to be abysmal. In fact, they had to decrease ticket prices.

Pakistan touring in 2016, as the premier side that summer, did not have the same problem. Neither did they have that issue in Australia.

My point is simple. India are certainly a draw but Pkaistan are not that far behind (both are hugely behind Australia touring England). The BCCI and ECB partnership have tried their best to promote this as a massive series, sadly it has not been in terms of tickets sold or the cricket on show. So if this is the basis then Pakistan definitely deserve a 5 test series, in particular having played a higher quality of cricket.

My personal opinion, all that aside, is that no test series in England, unless it is agains tAustralia, is profitable enough to be 5 tests, not even SA. I said there would be ticket problems weeks before the series started and I was right. Do you know why I was right? Because I am honest.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">England fans at The Oval singing to the Indian fans "can we play you every week" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvIND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1039191308005515269?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PakLFC]

PCB could not afford the regular 4 test series so it had to reduce it to 2 tests in 2018 I don't see how they can afford a 5 test series next time.

Even BCCI being the richest board only plays one 5 test series every 2 years - against England.

I don't expect the PCB to arrange regular 5 match series but it's been many years since we did. It is time we played a full series with anyone. It's PCB's problem if they can't afford it, seems they can't afford anything!

 

[The_Odd_One]

Even India U-19 won’t lose a home Test to West Indies or a home series to Sri Lanka.

There is more to cricket than winning at Lord’s or Oval. India does better in most countries and that is why they are 1st and we are 7th.

There’s nothing better than winning at Lord’s and MCG. None cares about winning at Nagpur or Bangalore.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

The question should be whether England deserves a five match series

I had quite the chuckle at this.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Even India U-19 won’t lose a home Test to West Indies or a home series to Sri Lanka.

There is more to cricket than winning at Lord’s or Oval. India does better in most countries and that is why they are 1st and we are 7th.

This is Pakistan, you, me, a cup, an oister, and a few boxes of serial could beat them one day, and then they would beat Australia then next day.

I do agree though. The notion that Pakistan with our very poor record and losses you mentioned somehow deserving it more than India is laughable.

The point and laugh at India when they aren't playing well needs to stop. They lost to England 4-1 in a test series on the road, every home team wins a test series holistically, it's nothing new. India could face England in India and trounce them, it works for everyone.

We lost to Sri Lanka, England is a class squad, why we are equating the two is ridiculous.

 

[MMHS]

Arranging 5 Test series against PAK should not be any financial issue for ECB, I am sure about that. Because of the legacy of PAK players in Counties throughout 70s to 90s, the senior bunch of British cricket fans (now days seems to be they are the only who attend Test cricket) still respect PAK cricket. And, there are enough PAK diaspora in UK to make it financially viable, might not be cash rich like IND tour.

However, I don't think PCB is interested to play long Test series - if offered, they'll convert 5 Test series in to 4 Tests max, if not 3 and play 3/4 T20s in that period. Long back, in 2001 PAK was the first major team to accept an invitation to play 2 Test Ashes warmer with a squad that had 15-16 cricket greats to few ATGs. And, PCB is the first board that has devalued their status by playing 2 Tests series against almost everyone - starting from SAF in 2001 at home, then away. Latest is this AUS series - there was absolutely no reason to indulge some T20, when Test & T20ies played with different squads these days. It could have been 3rd Test from 24-28 OCT easily, instead to 10-12 new players flying in and play 3 T20s without much practice.

We might never ever see PAK to play a 5 Test series again (last one was 1992), even if it reaches No. 1 Test rank - PCB won't allow that.

 

[Tusker]

Arranging 5 Test series against PAK should not be any financial issue for ECB, I am sure about that. Because of the legacy of PAK players in Counties throughout 70s to 90s, the senior bunch of British cricket fans (now days seems to be they are the only who attend Test cricket) still respect PAK cricket. And, there are enough PAK diaspora in UK to make it financially viable, might not be cash rich like IND tour.

However, I don't think PCB is interested to play long Test series - if offered, they'll convert 5 Test series in to 4 Tests max, if not 3 and play 3/4 T20s in that period. Long back, in 2001 PAK was the first major team to accept an invitation to play 2 Test Ashes warmer with a squad that had 15-16 cricket greats to few ATGs. And, PCB is the first board that has devalued their status by playing 2 Tests series against almost everyone - starting from SAF in 2001 at home, then away. Latest is this AUS series - there was absolutely no reason to indulge some T20, when Test & T20ies played with different squads these days. It could have been 3rd Test from 24-28 OCT easily, instead to 10-12 new players flying in and play 3 T20s without much practice.

We might never ever see PAK to play a 5 Test series again (last one was 1992), even if it reaches No. 1 Test rank - PCB won't allow that.

PCB is never in a position to say no to anything to practically every board except maybe Zim. It comes down to the host country no matter what the ego driven Pakistani fans think. Ironically it is only in India that a 5 match test series vs Pak is a lucrative proposition.

 

[Mamoon]

This is Pakistan, you, me, a cup, an oister, and a few boxes of serial could beat them one day, and then they would beat Australia then next day.

I do agree though. The notion that Pakistan with our very poor record and losses you mentioned somehow deserving it more than India is laughable.

The point and laugh at India when they aren't playing well needs to stop. They lost to England 4-1 in a test series on the road, every home team wins a test series holistically, it's nothing new. India could face England in India and trounce them, it works for everyone.

We lost to Sri Lanka, England is a class squad, why we are equating the two is ridiculous.

Most people would happily swap places with India in a blink.

7th rank, shaky home record, gets demolished in Australia all the time but turn into lions in England

Vs

1st rank, incredible home record, tends to get a few draws in Australia, gets battered in England, but does better than Pakistan against most countries.

I don’t think it is much of a comparison.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">England fans at The Oval singing to the Indian fans "can we play you every week" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvIND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1039191308005515269?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Who wouldnt want to play India like this?

 

[Ab Fan]

India have struggled heavily in England from a while now.

 

[RamLakhan]

England is like second home to Pakistan in terms of conditions (better than UAE). The pitches help their swing bowlers. Just like how India does well in Sri Lanka with similar conditions! Also South Africa do well in Australia (and vice versa) for the same reason! And people praise these teams! But nobody would like to give credit for India doing well in Sri Lanka where most other teams struggle! And Indians are severely criticized for their performance in England. The problem is the kind of length which you need to bowl in England will be taken for cleaners in India where you need to bowl a bit shorter in the good length area. Our bowlers are practiced bowling like this. Sam Curran will understand this when he comes to India (IPL? Especially if he gets picked for RCB he will know how tough life is especially if you play under clueless Kohli! I would be glad if he gets picked there with all the reputation so far ) And more importantly batsmen are not used to playing against balls which move from fuller length, all they know is hitting through the line thinking it as gift! These are not excuses, similarly there should be no excuses for giant teams like England, Australia & South Africa playing poorly in Sri Lanka (forget India!)

And for the topic... I won't mind if India gets lesser tests in England, Australia... Even we are sick of watching this routine humiliation... Let it be short (2 or 3 matches). Also same for home matches, we are sick of watching India dominate teams at home as well... Let Pakistan play 5, 6 or 8 tests, if they are so good! We don't care! We will see how test cricket will die soon limited to only traditional Ashes! (and even they may get bored)

 

[saeed5646]

PCB is never in a position to say no to anything to practically every board except maybe Zim.

Are you PCB spokesperson it seems you know better than us.

 

[Prashant]

Its all about money and not ranking. I will love to see a tight series rather than being thrashed repeatedly

 

[Tusker]

Are you PCB spokesperson it seems you know better than us.

I just read the media reports. boards like Afghanistan and Bangla have refused to cooperate with PCB and here you are getting worked up because I laid out the harsh facts? Lol

 

[MenInG]

Amazing the thread is about Pakistan deserving 5-0 series in England and some of our friends doing everything except accepting that India are quiet poor in England - which is, funnily enough, where home series for England are played in.

 

[MMHS]

PCB is never in a position to say no to anything to practically every board except maybe Zim. It comes down to the host country no matter what the ego driven Pakistani fans think. Ironically it is only in India that a 5 match test series vs Pak is a lucrative proposition.

I think, more than bargaining power, PCB has lost it's credibility as a reliable partner. Leaving politics a side, still you'll notice their handling of other boards from ECB to BCB or ACB - it's not trust worthy. And, there is lots of arrogance without substance - last I can recall PCB chairman's comment on UAE board (regarding venue sharing) - we have seen where it has ended. One of Mani's main challenge will be to improve PCB's image and establish as a mature, reliable major player in international cricket circuit.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Not a fan of 5 match test series. 3 tests are fine.

 

[Ali_Pakistan]

I think there should not be any 5 match test series ( except Ashes) as it is very demanding on the players body. I would say teams should always compete in 3 match test series. Also there should not be any 2 match series as well.

 

[saeed5646]

I just read the media reports. boards like Afghanistan and Bangla have refused to cooperate with PCB and here you are getting worked up because I laid out the harsh facts? Lol

you know nothing about PCB and pakistan cricket .Afghanistan rejected due to political interference from
there government it is not PCB fault.if You are that much inform could you enlight which other board apart from india/bd have refused to cooperate with PCB

 

[MoJoJoJo]

*Stats are from last decade.

*Pak with the second highest win/loss ratio

*India with the worst win/loss ratio

 

[shaaik]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Updated Test record of Asian teams in England:<br><br>Pakistan<br>Played 53<br>Won 12<br>Lost 23<br>Drawn 18<br><br>India<br>Played 62<br>Won 7<br>Lost 34<br>Drawn 21<br><br>Sri Lanka<br>Played 18<br>Won 3<br>Lost 8<br>Drawn 7<br><br>Bangladesh<br>Played 4<br>Lost 4<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1039773040131887104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 12, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[DRsohail]

I think, more than bargaining power, PCB has lost it's credibility as a reliable partner. Leaving politics a side, still you'll notice their handling of other boards from ECB to BCB or ACB - it's not trust worthy. And, there is lots of arrogance without substance - last I can recall PCB chairman's comment on UAE board (regarding venue sharing) - we have seen where it has ended. One of Mani's main challenge will be to improve PCB's image and establish as a mature, reliable major player in international cricket circuit.

do you think Khan and Mani will do something to improve relation bw BCB and PCB.?/

 

[the_outsider]

On principle, if Pakistan deserves a 5 test series in England then they also deserve nothing more than a 2-test series in SA and a 1-test series in Australia.

Would that make anyone happy?

 

[the_outsider]

you know nothing about PCB and pakistan cricket .Afghanistan rejected due to political interference from
there government it is not PCB fault.if You are that much inform could you enlight which other board apart from india/bd have refused to cooperate with PCB

I believe CA, CSA and NZC have also regularly refused to co-operate with PCB.

 

[Mamoon]

There’s nothing better than winning at Lord’s and MCG. None cares about winning at Nagpur or Bangalore.

MCG?

We cannot even draw a match in MCG even if someone puts a gun to our head, let alone win. No team is as pathetic in any country as Pakistan is in Australia. India are poor in England, but even they perform far better compared to our performance in Australia.

If India does not deserve a 5 match series in England, Pakistan does not deserve a single match in Australia.

 

[Tusker]

you know nothing about PCB and pakistan cricket .Afghanistan rejected due to political interference from
there government it is not PCB fault.if You are that much inform could you enlight which other board apart from india/bd have refused to cooperate with PCB

Why dont you tell us how and when your board got any sort of cooperation from NZ or AUS boards?

Nobody takes PCB seriously because it is run by incompetent jokers. This is why PCB don't have a working relationship with even the Bangla board. Heck they don't even get cooperation from the UAE board.

Whereas the situation with BCCI is the complete opposite no matter what your ego thinks.

 

[Tusker]

I think, more than bargaining power, PCB has lost it's credibility as a reliable partner. Leaving politics a side, still you'll notice their handling of other boards from ECB to BCB or ACB - it's not trust worthy. And, there is lots of arrogance without substance - last I can recall PCB chairman's comment on UAE board (regarding venue sharing) - we have seen where it has ended. One of Mani's main challenge will be to improve PCB's image and establish as a mature, reliable major player in international cricket circuit.

PCB or any Pakistani official for that matter behave like as though they were the Mughal emperors . When others show them their place they get so bent out of shape that the immediate reaction is to go on the offensive. Example - BCCI Court case or BCB refusal to play in Pakistan. No concept of diplomacy or building cordial relations. In their minds they perhaps still think that this is Mughal rule and get upset when their wishes are not heeded.

 

[IMMY69]

Why dont you tell us how and when your board got any sort of cooperation from NZ or AUS boards?

Nobody takes PCB seriously because it is run by incompetent jokers. This is why PCB don't have a working relationship with even the Bangla board. Heck they don't even get cooperation from the UAE board.

Whereas the situation with BCCI is the complete opposite no matter what your ego thinks.

The BCCI is so strong yet the Indian team can't even draw an away series.

All his chest thumping by Indians is to deflect from the lack of talent that the vast majority possess and just highlights their insecurity.

I have already mentioned this several times on various threads but somehow not one Indian poster is willing to reply to it.

So I will repeat it again.

India with its vast population, an extremely strong cricket board, billions of dollars of investment, should not just be ranked number 1 but should be wiping the floor with the opposition. They should be winning in South Africa, Australia, England etc etc... Yet they don't..

On the other hand we have Pakistan. A team that hasn't played at home since 2009.
This means that every player that has debuted in the last 9 years has had to play outside of their own country, in empty stadiums. A country where the governing body is inept and largely corrupt. Where facilities are so bad and first class cricketers are selected on nepotism or through bribery.

Yet inspire of this in 9 years they have only lost one series at home and that too because we just lost two senior stalwarts and had a brand new captain at the helm. We have drawn twice in England where India just lost 1-4.

Pakistan won CT17 and is somehow ranked number 1 in T20's, they have a new set up and are there is now hope going forward.

With regards to this thread, Pakistan have played 6 test matches in England in the last 2 years and have regularly toured England so there's no rush on that front. On merit, do they deserve to play more tests in England then India? Arguably yes because our overall record is better.

 

[the_outsider]

On merit, do they deserve to play more tests in England then India? Arguably yes because our overall record is better.

On merit if Pakistan deserves a 5 test series in England then on merit they also deserve a 1 test series in Australia, no?

If no fan is clamouring for justice in Australia then I don't see why they are feel they are being hard done by the ECB.

But yes, Pakistan doesn't deserve a 2 test series in England like it was this year. It should be longer than that at least.

 

[IMMY69]

On merit if Pakistan deserves a 5 test series in England then on merit they also deserve a 1 test series in Australia, no?

If no fan is clamouring for justice in Australia then I don't see why they are feel they are being hard done by the ECB.

But yes, Pakistan doesn't deserve a 2 test series in England like it was this year. It should be longer than that at least.

Why not address the real problems with Indian cricket which I have mentioned several times across different threads?

 

[the_outsider]

Why not address the real problems with Indian cricket which I have mentioned several times across different threads?

You posted an argument in your statement and I countered it. If you didn't want to talk about it then you shouldn't have written it in the first place.

You made several claims in your post one of which is meritocracy in giving tests based on performance. It is my choice which statement of yours I wish to debate over. And that's the one I chose.

 

[IMMY69]

You posted an argument in your statement and I countered it. If you didn't want to talk about it then you shouldn't have written it in the first place.

You made several claims in your post one of which is meritocracy in giving tests based on performance. It is my choice which statement of yours I wish to debate over. And that's the one I chose.

Well Pakistan does deserve three tests in Australia because they have had a history of competitive matches spanning back to the 70's and even during the last two decades where they've failed to win more then one match they've still produced some competitive games. What is more the Australian public has shown their support of games vs Pakistan because the stadiums have always been full.

Furthermore, Pakistan has always remained competitive at home, even in the UAE and white washed the Aussies on their last tour and so the Aussies would like to have their revenge on home conditions.

Finally, the point of the thread is not about 1 or 2 tests, it is about a 5 test match series and whether Pakistan deserves it more then India in ENGLAND.

 

[Tusker]

The BCCI is so strong yet the Indian team can't even draw an away series.

All his chest thumping by Indians is to deflect from the lack of talent that the vast majority possess and just highlights their insecurity.

I have already mentioned this several times on various threads but somehow not one Indian poster is willing to reply to it.

So I will repeat it again.

India with its vast population, an extremely strong cricket board, billions of dollars of investment, should not just be ranked number 1 but should be wiping the floor with the opposition. They should be winning in South Africa, Australia, England etc etc... Yet they don't..

Just like how China , USA, USSR and Russia have won all those football worldcups given their population, size and infrastructure .... right ?

 

[Tusker]

Well Pakistan does deserve three tests in Australia because they have had a history of competitive matches spanning back to the 70's and even during the last two decades where they've failed to win more then one match they've still produced some competitive games. What is more the Australian public has shown their support of games vs Pakistan because the stadiums have always been full.

And India matches in England aren't competitive ?

 

[IMMY69]

Just like how China , USA, USSR and Russia have won all those football worldcups given their population, size and infrastructure .... right ?

Look at the competition in football as opposed to Cricket. In cricket there are literally 5 to 6 top countries including India.

 

[IMMY69]

And India matches in England aren't competitive ?

Yes they are but we're talking about 5 test matches in England based on merit vs one test match in Australia!

Australia is always three test matches.

 

[Tusker]

Look at the competition in football as opposed to Cricket. In cricket there are literally 5 to 6 top countries including India.

There is no competition to China, USA , Russia in terms of population. Yet Croatia managed to get to the final. Having a large population and big country makes it very hard for selectors to find talent.

In anycase the BCCI has been financially rich only for about the last 20-25 yrs and it is only recently that cricket is being considered as a viable career option.

In that time period our record is second only to AUS.

 

[Balthazar]

But does the England cricket board is even ready to host Pakistan for 5 Test matches? Yes they deserve to play more Tests in England, but if the host country don't want it then who are you to question them.
And again by the same logic, Australia should just host Pakistan for 1-test match and be done with it. That's more than they deserve.

 

[zn426]

So performance only in ENG should be counted? should we consider Pak’s performance in AUS/SA as well please?

If you want to make this argument then I'll point out that India wins 1 match at most in any given series in AUS/SA. In fact they lost 2-0 the last time they went to AUS. No better than Pakistan. Bad team. Shameful team. Not deserving of extra matches in SA/AUS.

 

[the_outsider]

Well Pakistan does deserve three tests in Australia because they have had a history of competitive matches spanning back to the 70's and even during the last two decades where they've failed to win more then one match they've still produced some competitive games. What is more the Australian public has shown their support of games vs Pakistan because the stadiums have always been full.

Furthermore, Pakistan has always remained competitive at home, even in the UAE and white washed the Aussies on their last tour and so the Aussies would like to have their revenge on home conditions.

Finally, the point of the thread is not about 1 or 2 tests, it is about a 5 test match series and whether Pakistan deserves it more then India in ENGLAND.

So you are claiming Pakistan deserves a 5 match test series in England more than India but also deserves the same length of series (4 match series ) as India does in Australia.

Now either you are are arguing with overall record or you are arguing with recent records.

If you're arguing about overall records then Pakistan won games in the 70s and 80s in Australia with their last win/draw coming in 1996.
And overall in England, India has won the same number of series as Pakistan (3). In fact India's last series win came in 2007 whereas Pakistan's last series win came in 1996.

So if overall record is the criteria then no Pakistan does not deserve a 5 match test series more than India does.

If you're looking at recent records though, then yes, England deserves more matches than India in England.
But then Pakistan has also been whitewashed in their last 4 tours to Australia (12 losses in 12 matches) while India have 2 wins and 5 draws, including a series draw.

So then, if Pakistan deserves more matches in England based on that record then they also deserve nothing more than a 2 test series in Australia.

So pick which one you like.

You can't have different criteria for different countries.

 

[the_outsider]

If you want to make this argument then I'll point out that India wins 1 match at most in any given series in AUS/SA. In fact they lost 2-0 the last time they went to AUS. No better than Pakistan. Bad team. Shameful team. Not deserving of extra matches in SA/AUS.

You're joking, right? Pakistan has been whitewashed in Australia four times in a row now. They have lost 12 out of their last 12 matches in Australia. Not even a draw.

Pakistan's performance in Australia in the last 20 years has been the worst among all major test nations playing anywhere overseas.

 

[slipcatch]

England and Australia should only play 5 match series against each other.

When they are playing against other it should be only 3 match series.

less than 3 match series shouldn't be allowed regardless of the rank of a team. This simple measures taken by ICC could help cricket but we all know ICC is a spineless and incompetent organization.

 

[the_outsider]

Yes they are but we're talking about 5 test matches in England based on merit vs one test match in Australia!

Australia is always three test matches.

No. Australia tours have historically been 4 match series.

 

[MMHS]

do you think Khan and Mani will do something to improve relation bw BCB and PCB.?/

BCB is just one member of the large family. Barring BCCI, rest other boards should be PCB's friend, but I didn't see that. Regarding BCB, I am not sure actually - that bridge has been burnt and the leadership there actually wasn't waiting to embrace PAK ever. I don't see a PAK-BD bilateral in near future to be honest. This year's BPL, I won't be surprised if we see fewer number of PAK players, already number of PAK players have reduced to 3-4 in total in Dhaka League, when at one point 2-3 were present in every club and that 2-3 included Wasim, Waquar, Saq, Saeed, Ijaz, MoYo ....

 

[MMHS]

No. Australia tours have historically been 4 match series.

I think, it was late 90s that IND-AUS had 3-4 Test series; otherwise in past limited, but most series were 5 Tests, and one I can recall was 6 Test affair. 1948, 1968,1978, 1992 IND tour of AUS was 5 Tests, and 1958, 1968 AUS tour was 5 Tests, while 1979 was 6 Tests.

1983-84 PAK tour of AUS was 5 Test series.

 

[Balthazar]

England and Australia should only play 5 match series against each other.

When they are playing against other it should be only 3 match series.

less than 3 match series shouldn't be allowed regardless of the rank of a team. This simple measures taken by ICC could help cricket but we all know ICC is a spineless and incompetent organization.

That's not how it works. England board clearly views Indian tour just as important as Ashes. And also playing long series is like a double-edged sword. A 1-4 series loss is more damaging than 1-2 series loss and we are still ranked #1 in the rankings.

 

[Thomaskutty]

No need, 3 tests is enough. The last time Pakistan won a series in England was in 1996.

 

[slipcatch]

That's not how it works. England board clearly views Indian tour just as important as Ashes. And also playing long series is like a double-edged sword. A 1-4 series loss is more damaging than 1-2 series loss and we are still ranked #1 in the rankings.

As important in terms of $$$, India record isn't better than Pakistan in England.

And I was referring in terms of competition giving to England in England, generating money does not keep the quality alive, competing does.

Like I have said in my previous post, ICC is a spineless organization and that reflects not being able to enforce minimum of 3 matches series regardless of team rank and flawed ranking.

 

[MMHS]

PCB or any Pakistani official for that matter behave like as though they were the Mughal emperors . When others show them their place they get so bent out of shape that the immediate reaction is to go on the offensive. Example - BCCI Court case or BCB refusal to play in Pakistan. No concept of diplomacy or building cordial relations. In their minds they perhaps still think that this is Mughal rule and get upset when their wishes are not heeded.

I won't quote BCCI or BCB here, but I find it quite funny to ask CA, ECB, CNZ for series in PAK almost every time - twice a year, when they know that the problem is somewhere else - out of Cricket Board's reach. I wondered, why they didn't ask PAK Govt. & Foreign office to get into the act and help them? May be, PCB doesn't want to share a little piece of the golden goose, aka PAK Cricket with anyone.

 

[Tusker]

I won't quote BCCI or BCB here, but I find it quite funny to ask CA, ECB, CNZ for series in PAK almost every time - twice a year, when they know that the problem is somewhere else - out of Cricket Board's reach.

Exactly !. The only boards that have shown any willingness to work with them are SL , WI and Zim.

I wondered, why they didn't ask PAK Govt. & Foreign office to get into the act and help them? May be, PCB doesn't want to share a little piece of the golden goose, aka PAK Cricket with anyone.

I doubt anyone even in the Pakistani govt hierarchy takes the PCB seriously. For one thing they have far bigger and serious problems to attend to. Therefore PCB is left to its own devices. Also its hard to take people like Shahryar Khan , Butt etc seriously. Some of the things that these guys say are soo comical that anyone with an iota of credibility would stay clear of these guys. Maybe with Imran as PM things might change but given the typical Pakistani psyche you can count on them to take up the route of the bravado upon any sign of disagreement from other boards ( eg Lawsuits against BCCI )

 

[the_outsider]

I think, it was late 90s that IND-AUS had 3-4 Test series; otherwise in past limited, but most series were 5 Tests, and one I can recall was 6 Test affair. 1948, 1968,1978, 1992 IND tour of AUS was 5 Tests, and 1958, 1968 AUS tour was 5 Tests, while 1979 was 6 Tests.

1983-84 PAK tour of AUS was 5 Test series.

Yes I meant in modern day cricket. Pre-80s was a different landscape altogether.

 

[Balthazar]

As important in terms of $$$, India record isn't better than Pakistan in England.

And I was referring in terms of competition giving to England in England, generating money does not keep the quality alive, competing does.

Like I have said in my previous post, ICC is a spineless organization and that reflects not being able to enforce minimum of 3 matches series regardless of team rank and flawed ranking.

Yes, but Pakistan is not a big enough team to handle 5-Test match series. Only big 3 boards can afford such competition and keep the interest going among the fans. You just need to look into how players prepare and keep themselves fit before the start of the series. But you don't see such enthusiasm when it comes to other series.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Yes, but Pakistan is not a big enough team to handle 5-Test match series. Only big 3 boards can afford such competition and keep the interest going among the fans. You just need to look into how players prepare and keep themselves fit before the start of the series. But you don't see such enthusiasm when it comes to other series.

Pakistan played a 4 match series in 2016 and handled it pretty well by drawing it. Also they kept themselves fit and had enough match practice before their series against England this time. We on the other hand had two of our main bowlers injured because of IPL. You call this preparation?

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Most people would happily swap places with India in a blink.

7th rank, shaky home record, gets demolished in Australia all the time but turn into lions in England

Vs

1st rank, incredible home record, tends to get a few draws in Australia, gets battered in England, but does better than Pakistan against most countries.

I don’t think it is much of a comparison.

It's just that we need to always compare ourselves to our neighbours.

It is time to move out of their shadow and just play for ourselves. Constantly comparing ourselves is petty. Its 2018, 1947 was a long time ago and they have moved on.

 

[slipcatch]

Yes, but Pakistan is not a big enough team to handle 5-Test match series. Only big 3 boards can afford such competition and keep the interest going among the fans. You just need to look into how players prepare and keep themselves fit before the start of the series. But you don't see such enthusiasm when it comes to other series.

what are you talking about?