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Does Pakistan deserve to be in the semi-finals of the World Cup?

batandballbattle said:
To be honest, Afghanistan deserves it more.
Had it not been for a herculean effort, they would have gone into the South Africa game brimming with confidence, which would have risen exponentially if they are to bat first.
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You can’t deserve it more if you can’t take simple catches
 
deltexas said:
Yes but eng will be back with a bang in the 24 t20 WC. They will rectify the things that went wrong and be back. More so it's t20 a for.at they are really strong in..
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England are done. Their blip is over and it will take years before England are uber competitive again.

Remember, it took England over 20 years to rectify their team (ODI and Test) since the 90s.

The 2019 WC final win was an absolute fluke.

The 2022 T20 WC win was against Pakistan, who by most standards on here don't even deserve to be in the Semi Finals let alone final.
 
deltexas said:
Yes but eng will be back with a bang in the 24 t20 WC. They will rectify the things that went wrong and be back. More so it's t20 a for.at they are really strong in..
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yes, they can but most probably they will but I am only talking about their next and the last match in this tournament.
 
It's a blessing in disguise if Pakistan use the England 2015 one day template and start again. But with Pakistan, I would not hold my breath.
 
Technics 1210 said:
England are done. Their blip is over and it will take years before England are uber competitive again.

Remember, it took England over 20 years to rectify their team (ODI and Test) since the 90s.

The 2019 WC final win was an absolute fluke.

The 2022 T20 WC win was against Pakistan, who by most standards on here don't even deserve to be in the Semi Finals let alone final.
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Their younger generation t20 talent is amazing.. if you see their t20 bash or the hundred - some of these batsmen are incredible hitters. The old wood from this team will be chopped anyway for the t20 WC - moeen malan root stokes Willey woakes wood . So a major overhaul..no guarantees on winning it for sure but they will be very competitive and will be a fave for getting into sf..
 
Technics 1210 said:
To answer the OP, Pakistan deserve to be in the Semi Finals and the finals.

Every team has an EQUAL chance, but no, the same haters will claim Pakistan deserves humiliation, deserves to be knocked out, deserves to be made an example of.

Save the analysis too - as if it will make any difference.

It is the same mantra and pattern after every ICC tournament, and if you are a true Pakistan fan, you would have realised a long time ago that Pakistan doesn't do anything conventionally - this is precisely why when you expect Pakistan to win, they will lose, and vica versa vica.
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Strange.

So if they deserve to be in semi finals and finals, then how come they aren't?
 
It's imperative for Pakistan cricket to bring their substandard wickets up to standard that's required. Until they make these changes then quality of performances will continue to be moderate with the odd good performance.

And no, Pakistan did not deserve a semi final berth
 
There is nothing called "deserve" in a World Cup where every team has an equal chance. Every team faces other teams and every team gets to play 9 games.

It is not like WTC where many teams often have unfair advantages.
 
This deserve thing is very unrealistic for me.

Had NZ lost to Sri Lanka today, Pakistan would have to beat England by 137 runs and if they would have done that, they would have deserved to be in semi.

NZ won so they deserve to be in semi.

If Pakistan score 550 tomorrow and bowl England out for 150, they deserve to be in semi.

Why don't we gift all tennis matches to Federer instead of having a Grand Slam if he deserves to win and others dont?

There is no such thing as a "non deserving winner".

The word is coined to satiate wrist slitters who can't fathom a bad team turning it around or a set of circumstances causing a probable weak team to enter the semifinals.
Otherwise, a winner deserves to win.
 
Technics 1210 said:
You missed the point.

Asking whether Pakistan 'deserve' to be in the SFs is different to asking whether Pakistan can make the SFs.
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If they can beat England by 300 runs, I would like to see the person who can claim they don't deserve to be in semis.
 
If they make it to the semi finals, they deserve it.

If they don’t make it to the semi finals, they don’t deserve it.

The result speaks for itself. Kismat apni apni.
 
No they don't .
They won't make the semi despite rain helping them to win vs NZ.
NZ have been better than Pakistan- with only 1 bad game vs south africa. NZ also most competitive team vs India so far In the world cup.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
This deserve thing is very unrealistic for me.

Had NZ lost to Sri Lanka today, Pakistan would have to beat England by 137 runs and if they would have done that, they would have deserved to be in semi.

NZ won so they deserve to be in semi.

If Pakistan score 550 tomorrow and bowl England out for 150, they deserve to be in semi.

Why don't we gift all tennis matches to Federer instead of having a Grand Slam if he deserves to win and others dont?

There is no such thing as a "non deserving winner".

The word is coined to satiate wrist slitters who can't fathom a bad team turning it around or a set of circumstances causing a probable weak team to enter the semifinals.
Otherwise, a winner deserves to win.
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So true. If you make it to the sf - you deserved it. Nobody has a right to deserve being in the sf. Once in the sf - it's anyone's game.. Teams have 9 games to qualify. That's why I like the round Robin format - gives everyone equal chance to qualify for sf.
 
Rana said:
The entire purpose of the 10 team league format is that the deserving 4 go through. Simple as

You had your chance to make the top 4, you missed it. So you don’t deserve it.
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Yea they lost it moment they started depending on others. In NZ's case they just had to win their game. That's it which they did. Pakistan needed so many things going their way. NZ was never in that position. They controlled their own destiny despite they lost to the same teams pakistan lost to. This is a fair result.
 
batandballbattle said:
We didn't exactly take those simple catches either
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Right

Do you recon Maxwell would have come to bat at 3 against us in Bangluru had Usama taken Warner’s catch?

I would argue, Australia would have still racked up 370+ against us one way or another
 
Rana said:
Right

Do you recon Maxwell would have come to bat at 3 against us in Bangluru had Usama taken Warner’s catch?

I would argue, Australia would have still racked up 370+ against us one way or another
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Early wicket could have changed the complexion of the game, target definitely could have been lower. Also consider that smith and labu haven't had the best tournaments.
 
batandballbattle said:
Early wicket could have changed the complexion of the game, target definitely could have been lower. Also consider that smith and labu haven't had the best tournaments.
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Well, it could have been, and it also could not have been.

Smith and Labu most likely would have dug in and batted till the 35th over with the score at 200-2.


Maxwell then could have taken his time a bit and scored a blistering 70 off 40 balls. 330 at least was still on the cards
 
Rana said:
Well, it could have been, and it also could not have been.

Smith and Labu most likely would have dug in and batted till the 35th over with the score at 200-2.


Maxwell then could have taken his time a bit and scored a blistering 70 off 40 balls. 330 at least was still on the cards
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Exactly bro, target could have been lower. Maybe even less than 330.
Oh well, just fantasies now.
 
It's ok, Pakistan was starting the tournament with some massive disadvantages as they were the only team with no experience of playing in India. Most players from other countries had far better knowledge of the ground dimensions, the pitches etc etc. Inspite of that, I think Pakistan played reasonably well, baring the India game. What threw Pakistan out of the cup was the defeat to Afghanistan and that deserves criticism.
 
Pakistan has the talent for a semi-final spot, but Babar's safety-first approach raises questions. In contrast to teams that experimented more, we were conservative, lacking in experimentation and adequate backups. Our reliance on new fast bowlers overlooked the value of experienced campaigners.

The bowling attack, touted as the "no.1," revealed its inexperience with each player having played under 50 games. Examining examples like Southee, Shami, Boult, Hazelwood, and Siraj emphasizes the importance of experience over sheer speed.

In batting, limited exploration of alternatives, especially when players like Fakhar, Sharjeel, Haris, and Saim offer impact, raises concerns. Our batting approach, reflected in Babar's consistent target of 280-290, contrasts sharply with peers aiming for 350+.

There is obvious overshadowing of impactful players by safety-first choices and the one-dimensional batting until Fakhar's return.
 
NZ didn't beat any side in top 5 in 2019 made it to top 4.
NZ didn't beat any side in top 5 in 2023 made it to top 4.
NZ always rely on Pakistan for big and costly losses and then sneak through.
 
You don't deserve to make it to the semis based on your spot in ICC rankings. You make it on the basis of how you performed in the tournament.
 
NZ have shown that if you are clinical in your wins against minnows, then you can reach semi finals even by doing the bare minimum I.e. win 5, lose 4.

Pakistan can't do that and can't think that far.
 
mominsaigol said:
They don't deserve it more then NZ.

NZ lost to the 3 steongest teams and the 400 game was washed out + they had injured players. Who knows what would have happened if we had a full game and not a reduced over game.

Pakistan lost to 3 Strongest teams + Afghanistan.

Nz deserve it more.
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Also Nz provided the proper treatment to the minnows club which as usual Pak bottled. In a tournament like this when you don't beat the crap out of minnows & on top of that you practically gift one of those games to them, you simply don't deserve to quality for knockouts. As it's been proven in 4 years such carelessness may not cost you in t20i's but the 50 overs are just too ruthless & unforgiving. Nz much like last time around have proven they aren't exactly top tier but they are smart,calculative & realistic unlike the cake biriani boys.
 
The way we played a musical chair game with the PCB chairmanship position and the way Babar was just hell bent on trying the same players again and again, I would go as far as saying that we did not even deserve to take part in this world cup. ICC should step in and ban us for at least a year. Enough is enough
 
VForVendetta said:
Also Nz provided the proper treatment to the minnows club which as usual Pak bottled. In a tournament like this when you don't beat the crap out of minnows & on top of that you practically gift one of those games to them, you simply don't deserve to quality for knockouts. As it's been proven in 4 years such carelessness may not cost you in t20i's but the 50 overs are just too ruthless & unforgiving. Nz much like last time around have proven they aren't exactly top tier but they are smart,calculative & realistic unlike the cake biriani boys.
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Even afg deserve to be in semi's more then us lol
 
Every team that plays well is deserving one. If you lose against Afghanistan then I guess you do not deserve to be among top 4.
 
We might be on the same points as NZ, and we may have beaten them too, but do we deserve to go to the semi's over NZ? Not at all. And there are two reasons for that:

1. Our bowling - it's just not good enough. Barring the game with BD, our bowling has been woeful and we weren't able to contain any batting opposition in the powerplay and middle overs (not even NED).

2. Not winning convincingly and losing badly - we need to bash/annihilate oppositions when we are winning against them to boost our NRR. E.g. we should have finished the game against BD 5-7 overs before we actually did, or for the game against NZ, we could have scored more than 200 in 25 overs. These things add up and just based on 2 examples we could have brought NRR difference down to 200 runs instead of 280 odd. And about losing badly, when it was clear against AUS we couldn't win, we didn't even look to try and play out the 50 overs. Same with SA too. Again, this could add up and our equation would have been down to 150 runs.

So yeah, even though it sucks we aren't making the semis and NZ are, they might be barely better than us but it's that difference that counts.
 
This CWC format can be criticised for not having jeopardy, being long and arduous etc. But the one thing you cannot argue is the fact that it only sends the deserving 4 teams into the semis. If you're not there, you haven't been good enough. Period.
 
Pakistan were lucky in this WC. They were also best prepared team.

One of the competitor Afg lost v BD and when they were so close to semis berth, lost to freak batting of Maxwell keeping Pakistani hopes alive.

NZ lost 4 matches on trott.

Had least travel among other countries.

Got chance to play at 3 venues twice in WC. Hyderabad, Bengaluru and Chennai. Won both in Hyd, Lost 1 in Bengaluru and won 2nd one, lost both at Chennai.

Won 4 out 8 tosses. Aus won 3 out of 8, India won 3, SA won 2 out of their 8.

Good form going into the WC. Team was playing together and had got into rhythm. No 1 ODI batsman, no 1 OD bowler.
 
Well as a pakistani i would love to see them in Semis.

But honestly, the four best and most deserving teams of the tournament have advanced to the knockout stage.
 
Not at all, the only thing they have done is play dot balls in a tribute to tuktuk Misbah
 
kumjsr said:
Pakistan were lucky in this WC. They were also best prepared team.

One of the competitor Afg lost v BD and when they were so close to semis berth, lost to freak batting of Maxwell keeping Pakistani hopes alive.

NZ lost 4 matches on trott.

Had least travel among other countries.

Got chance to play at 3 venues twice in WC. Hyderabad, Bengaluru and Chennai. Won both in Hyd, Lost 1 in Bengaluru and won 2nd one, lost both at Chennai.

Won 4 out 8 tosses. Aus won 3 out of 8, India won 3, SA won 2 out of their 8.

Good form going into the WC. Team was playing together and had got into rhythm. No 1 ODI batsman, no 1 OD bowler.
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Pakistan played a lot of cricket against Afghanistan prior to world cup. Afghanistan gained more from it than Pakistan. They finally figured out from all the losses what it takes to beat Pakistan.
 
Saj said:
The brand of cricket by Pakistan has largely been awful to watch.

If you can't learn from other teams then there is no hope for you really.
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This is one of the most UN-pakistan brand i have ever seen in my long years of watching. ZERO X-factor in bowling department.
 
Even a 7th standard teenager figured out the route to SF it was silky smooth, out of top 5 nations ie Ind Aus SA Eng NZ, Pak needed to win against two only provided they beat the minnows Ban Ned AfG SL.

The loss to AFG was out of the blue and add to a narrow defeat against SA just rolled us over. Honestly Pakistan have been pathetic in his WC can't bat can't bowl can't field
 
Of course we do.

After all we had the number 1 ranked bowler and batter - isn't that what it's all about?
 
Pakistan couldn't bat 50 overs in four games - thrice batting first. For a lineup full of accumulators whose entire strategy is to "bat deep", this is a poor return.

When you can't execute on your gameplan (and have no alternative approach), you don't deserve to qualify for the semis.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This CWC format can be criticised for not having jeopardy, being long and arduous etc. But the one thing you cannot argue is the fact that it only sends the deserving 4 teams into the semis. If you're not there, you haven't been good enough. Period.
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The only standout team is India, which did well in all departments. Other than that, there is not deserving one, all had their luck with tosses / decisions going their way and mistakes by opponents. NZ only won from minnows in the beginning en lost then on the trot. SA can't chase to save their lives, got very luck v PK, lost to Ned and almost lost to Afg at one point. Had Usama taken that catch, PK would've also won against them, not for that Maxwell innings they would've also lost to Afg.

In short no team deserved to be in top 4 other than India. They all had their luck and chances. For PK it just didn't went their way. In semi's now, it's again all about handling pressure and not choking (Advantage Aus).
 
Resounding no.

Not one area of Pakistan's cricket can be considered at par or above with those of the other 4 who have qualified
 
There has been a clear gap between NZ and Pak this world cup even if it is not a huge one.

First and most obviously, they heavily beat up the minnows as premier sides should do. NZ has 100% win record in all of history against minnows at world cups, even including Bangladesh. I will say I am not sure we should even call Afghanistan minnows right now though. All 4 of their wins very comfortable, including against 2 major teams and almost beat Aus also.

Second, they have only played 1 bad game. They did very poorly against SA, but against Pak the match was in the balance before rain, against Aus the game came down to the very last ball and against India they were the most competitive side and even had India nervous deep in to the game still needing 80 runs with the last recognized batsmen in.

On the other hand in 4 of Pakistan's losses, they were clear and decisive. England wins by almost 100 runs. India thumping win. Australia easy 60 run win. Even Afghanistan game, it says only 1 over left but they were in control the whole run chase and won by staggering 8 wickets.

Third, specifically in the Pak game, NZ definitely would have viewed it as bad luck with the rain. Even with Fakhar playing his amazing innings, Pak were only maintaining the RRR, not getting ahead of it. Still needed 200 runs at 8 RPO which is a very large amount. If Fakhar mishits a ball and gets out NZ would have been clear favorites, and if you are 1 wicket away from being the underdog in the match then in reality it is 50/50 situation. NZ cannot say they were robbed of victory by rain, but they were definitely robbed of their chance at it.

Lastly, NZ has dealt with many injuries during the world cup including to key players. Williamson clearly still injured in his knee even when he came back against Bangla and then gets fractured thumb also. Lockie Ferguson got an Achilles injury which made him miss games. Mark Chapman missed games with calf injury. Matt Henry out of the tournament with hamstring injury. Southee is first bench seamer now, but was unavailable for first half of world cup because of thumb fracture in warm ups.
 
4 best teams are through to the semi-finals.

The bottom line is that Pakistan only beat BD, SL and Ned. Their 2 points against NZ were questionable too had the match been completed - as I'm not sure Pakistan would have chased down over 400.

An average side, captained poorly, too many passengers in the side and too many players out of form.
 
MenInG said:
Resounding no.

Not one area of Pakistan's cricket can be considered at par or above with those of the other 4 who have qualified
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This. And yes a resounding one. No need to sugar coat. If Pak team cant recognize that there is a problem, how can they fix it ? Multiple issues. Is it beyond repair ? Absolutely no. In sport things are never as good as they seem to be nor are they very bad as they seem to be . Just needs to be harnessed correctly.
 
Pak would have conceded bare minimum 370 v India in semis & would have been bundled out for 190 thank god saved from that humiliation.
 
This is a high performance business. The players who failed to live up to the expectations will need to be held accountable ie Babar, Rizwan, Iftikhar, Shadab, Shaheen, Hasan Ali, Nawaz, Rauf etc. This is how it works in the professional world.
 
Looking at the way Australia, NZ allowed England winning the KOs so easily in 2019

And now the way NZ, South Africa playing so poorly in the semis,

Makes you wonder how much more exciting the KOs would have been if Pakistan had qualified in both versions.

They’re not a consistent round robin team but they’re a hell bringer in the KOs and you all can believe that.
 
Pakistan are a weird side. They can turn it on in Semis if they get there. That’s when they truly are unpredictable

Before reaching the semis, they are pretty average and predictable
 
Rana said:
Pakistan are a weird side. They can turn it on in Semis if they get there. That’s when they truly are unpredictable

Before reaching the semis, they are pretty average and predictable
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Pakistan are Undertaker of cricket. Whole year you don’t know where they are. Usually out of shape and all.

Come the World Cup knockouts and Pakistan enters like mad maniac cornered tigers
 
2019 world cup, absolutely. We were on a winning streak and I am certain that if we had made the semis than we would have won the world cup. Amir and Shaheen were peaking, Haris Sohail was batting like a dream and Babar under Sarfraz's gudiance was playing for the team rather than himself

2023 however, no way. Throughout the tournament we never looked dominant in any way, shape or form. Our bowling was pathetic and our batting was worse. The only way we could have made it past the semis without humiliating ourselves would have been via a Saud masterclass
 
Should have played more consistently in the round robin stages innit..

Would have could have should have....

You either need incredible luck to be in the SF or be consistent- Pakistan were neither and its about time they made their own luck...

For all the talk of cornered tigers, they have won only 1 WC and 1 CT, even though they have been in SF's a few times, so not so much of cornered tigers are they?

Playing the devils advocate....
 
CerebralPatriot said:
2019 world cup, absolutely. We were on a winning streak and I am certain that if we had made the semis than we would have won the world cup. Amir and Shaheen were peaking, Haris Sohail was batting like a dream and Babar under Sarfraz's gudiance was playing for the team rather than himself

2023 however, no way. Throughout the tournament we never looked dominant in any way, shape or form. Our bowling was pathetic and our batting was worse. The only way we could have made it past the semis without humiliating ourselves would have been via a Saud masterclass
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Honestly believe that in 2019 Pakistan were in a winning streak and they were going to be a huge threat in the KOs
 
Pakistan almost beat south Africa in the group stage. They difference between Pakistan winning or losing that game was the team morale however with the bowling we have had I believe we would have been disappointed in the semis.

Does anyone know if Naseem will be fit for the Australia tour not that it's going to make a big difference to teams chances there?
 
CerebralPatriot said:
2019 world cup, absolutely. We were on a winning streak and I am certain that if we had made the semis than we would have won the world cup. Amir and Shaheen were peaking, Haris Sohail was batting like a dream and Babar under Sarfraz's gudiance was playing for the team rather than himself

2023 however, no way. Throughout the tournament we never looked dominant in any way, shape or form. Our bowling was pathetic and our batting was worse. The only way we could have made it past the semis without humiliating ourselves would have been via a Saud masterclass
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If if does not exist
 
If Pakistan played the semifinal , they had a chance of making to the final.
 
Ozeirk said:
Pakistan almost beat south Africa in the group stage. They difference between Pakistan winning or losing that game was the team morale however with the bowling we have had I believe we would have been disappointed in the semis.

Does anyone know if Naseem will be fit for the Australia tour not that it's going to make a big difference to teams chances there?
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The umpiring decision cost them the match and the semi final spot, arguably.
 
Bhaijaan said:
If Pakistan played the semifinal , they had a chance of making to the final.
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'If my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike' - Gino D'Acampo

Literally every half decent cricket team participating this world cup beat us! The only victories came against the 3 bottom teams in the tournament, NZ jury is out due to DLS.

Not making it to the SF will allow for introspection and be honest about the state of the team rather than brushing it conveniently under the carpet. Not too long ago PCB cut a cake celebrating how good this team was, this World cup was a much needed reality check!
 
NZ simply folded at the end in front of our slow right arm Shami. Pakistan wouldn’t have done that.
Also India wouldn’t have carted Shaheen Afridi like Rohit and Gill did to NZ
 
OMB said:
NZ simply folded at the end in front of our slow right arm Shami. Pakistan wouldn’t have done that.
Also India wouldn’t have carted Shaheen Afridi like Rohit and Gill did to NZ
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Didn't they do in Srilanka reaching 356/2?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OMB
OMB said:
NZ simply folded at the end in front of our slow right arm Shami. Pakistan wouldn’t have done that.
Also India wouldn’t have carted Shaheen Afridi like Rohit and Gill did to NZ
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They already carted Shaheen in Asia cup and this world cup. Even if they didn't, Indians would have feasted on Pak's spin options on that slow pitch. 400 was inevitable.
 
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Bhaijaan said:
The umpiring decision cost them the match and the semi final spot, arguably.
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You can't say one umpiring decision was the reason why Pakistan didn't qualify.

There were 9 group matches and the best 4 teams qualified.
 
Absolutely not. I'm not the biggest fan of the 10 team round robin, but it does mean that the best teams qualify.

The fact that Pakistan finished 5th is honestly a huge achievement for us considering our team
 
Saj said:
You can't say one umpiring decision was the reason why Pakistan didn't qualify.

There were 9 group matches and the best 4 teams qualified.
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You obviously have a point but then we always have things like turning point of the match. Often boils to these little margins
 
If there was a tournament containing only the Southern Afrikaan teams of all the World Cup editions, on the final delivery to be bowled of the final match, the world would come to a half as the glitch in the matrix would never allow for a Southern Afrikaana triumph in the world cups.
 
Give Pakistan Shamsi and Maharaj in place of Nawaz and Shadab and it might have been a different story anyways its over
 
This Pakistan would have played the semi finals and probably went on to reach finals

Fakhar
Sharjeel
Haris
Babar
Hafeez Vol 2.0
Salman
Imad
Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
Wasim
 
If a team has lost five game then team don't deserve to Play in semifinals as simple as that. Pakistan 2019 world cup performance was better than 2023 world cup .
 
Pakistan's campaign could have been totally different if we had proper potent spinners in place of Shadab and Nawaz. Even with our worst cricket, we ended up Number 5 in the competition and almost managed to beat South Africa and had beaten New Zealand i.e. two of the semi finalists.
 
ahmadharis1 said:
Absolutely not. I'm not the biggest fan of the 10 team round robin, but it does mean that the best teams qualify.

The fact that Pakistan finished 5th is honestly a huge achievement for us considering our team
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They had two back to back reality checks. First Asia cup. Second world cup. NZ definitely put up a far better both against India and Australia the two finalists. Against Australia they lost just by 5 runs. They made their own luck. They also played well in the semi final. It required a collective performance from India to pull ahat one off.
 
Savak said:
Pakistan's campaign could have been totally different if we had proper potent spinners in place of Shadab and Nawaz. Even with our worst cricket, we ended up Number 5 in the competition and almost managed to beat South Africa and had beaten New Zealand i.e. two of the semi finalists.
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Shadab and Nawaz playing meant both our bowling lacked, and all rounders were lacking. So they took away from both batting and bowling and offered negative returns. Such critical positions, and such utter failures.
 
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