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Does the Cummins led Australia team lack the killer instinct of the Waugh, Ponting and Clarke teams?

GLORY OF '92

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Dec 10, 2007
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Just get this feeling they are a bit soft compared to their predecessors. Feel they'll make the semis then lose to England or India. Cummins is too nice to be a WC winning captain. Look at the history all the WC winning captains have been tough almost brutal men.
 
I don't think so, they have recently won the WTC.
They perform exceptionally well in tournaments; these bilateral matches need to be taken lightly.
 
I'm not basing it on bilaterals just how they choked the Ashes and the general perception of Cummins being too nice.
 
For me, their main concern is the spin bowling department. At that time, they had Shane Warne but now they don't have such a world class spinner.
 
They have already lifted ICC test championship mace under the captaincy of Cummins. He is arguably good leader. I like it when a fast bowler is team's Captain. Because fast bowlers are always aggressive and strategic leaders. LQ lifted trophy twice under Shaheen's captaincy. Pakistan was 1999 CWC runner-up under Wasim Akram's captaincy. I hope in future pacers will get more chances to get captaincy.
 
For me, their main concern is the spin bowling department. At that time, they had Shane Warne but now they don't have such a world class spinner.
Zampa averages 28 per wicket in ODI, he has 141 wickets

That’s a proper spinner to bank on. Maxwell will be their 2nd option, although he is pretty average
 
Ponting and Waugh led Australian teams were way better than this lot. In fact the 2000s Aussie team has a solid claim to being the greatest cricket team of all time in both tests and ODIs. They were so strong that players like Hussey, Symonds, Katich had to wait till the age of 29/30 to break into their national teams. Stuart Macgill could have ended up with 1000 international wickets but for Warne. So of course any team will lack the killer instinct if you compare them to the GOAT team.
 
Yeah, I guess pat cummins is not highly rated when it is pointing in the other side. But Pat Cummins had proved himself to be a brave captain. Test champions they are. No. 3 ranked ODI team. That is a good job, to be honest.
 
Can you please for God sake stop taking these bilaterals seriously.
They will crush the same Indian team in world cup.
 
Australia will do well, we all know that. There's no team that has so many genuine all rounders who could each bowl 10 overs and capable of scoring attacking 50s regularly. Think of it in their playing xi they have Green, Stoinis, Marsh and Maxwell, add to that Cummins. India has Pandya and is struggling to find one more such all rounder to provide balance and we have to play Thakur and even fiddling with Ashwin. Thats because Jadeja for all his heroics in tests is an ordinary odi batsman.
 
Cummins is definitely not like the aussie captains of old, definitely a caliber below ones of the past
However the team are still looking like favourites even with the big loss of head, with the only weakness being spin bowling
 
For me, their main concern is the spin bowling department. At that time, they had Shane Warne but now they don't have such a world class spinner.
Zampa is literally the best spinner in the world in the middle overs. Not sure they're missing anything in the spin department.

They're missing Travis Head. With him, they can play Marsh at 3 and only 1 of Smith/Labu at 4. That's an issue.

Stoinis is the fraud all-rounder in that lineup

Pace bowling is not what it used to be - ageing, overworked trio and Sean Abbott is just not that good.
 
Just get this feeling they are a bit soft compared to their predecessors. Feel they'll make the semis then lose to England or India. Cummins is too nice to be a WC winning captain. Look at the history all the WC winning captains have been tough almost brutal men.

You called it right. The team definitely feels like it has gone soft under the leadership of Cummins.
 
The biggest problem for Australia is that except for Starc (Who himself is on the wane), they do not have good white ball bowlers for all conditions and their batting isn't reliable as former Australian teams. Australia unlike others have filled their team will all-rounders which means that they just have 3 specialist batters putting lots of pressure on Warner, Smith and Labuschagne. Their bowling attack as well isn't threatening. They are good for the home conditions but outside that they will struggle on most occasions. Cummins himself isn't a great ODI bowler. He is marching towards greatness in Tests but in ODIs his average is nearing 29 with an economy rate of 5.3, which is ordinary. Hazlewood is good but again he isn't someone you would worry about on these pitches.

Zampa has lots of pressure being the lone spinner and it seems like he hasn't recovered from the battering he received from SA about a month ago, seems to be going for 60 runs on average in his 10 overs. So it might look as if the Australian team is soft but that is not the case, they lack serious skills for these conditions. They were so unsure about their batting that they had to replace Agar with Labuschagne which also is troubling them as a good left-arm spin option would have been helpful.

This is not saying that Australia cannot turn it around. While their batting is filled with all-rounders, they can go berserk one their day and score big, just that they will lack consistency. This is what we saw in the bilateral series against India as well, they folded in the first 2 games and then scored 350+ in the third. It is not Cummins's fault, it is just the way Australian team setup is at the moment, they are unsure about their ability in these conditions. The fact that Maxwell has been their best bowler since third ODI against India tells you the story. You cannot play Marsh, Stoinis, Green and Maxwell all in the same team and expect to be consistent. They surely are missing Travis Head as he would have given them the balance they are so badly missing.

Cummins himself I feel wouldn't be in the ODI XI if he wasn't the captain. That makes it difficult for him as well but again they have Abott to replace him which doesn't inspire the Aussies with confidence.
 
It's all about quality. How many of this current Australia team get into the 2003 team? I struggle to think of one.

The 2003 team had a batting line-up that included Gilchrist, Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, Bevan and Symonds. All great ODI cricketers.

They also had a bowling line-up which included McGrath, Warne and Lee.
 
The biggest problem for Australia is that except for Starc (Who himself is on the wane), they do not have good white ball bowlers for all conditions and their batting isn't reliable as former Australian teams. Australia unlike others have filled their team will all-rounders which means that they just have 3 specialist batters putting lots of pressure on Warner, Smith and Labuschagne. Their bowling attack as well isn't threatening. They are good for the home conditions but outside that they will struggle on most occasions. Cummins himself isn't a great ODI bowler. He is marching towards greatness in Tests but in ODIs his average is nearing 29 with an economy rate of 5.3, which is ordinary. Hazlewood is good but again he isn't someone you would worry about on these pitches.

Zampa has lots of pressure being the lone spinner and it seems like he hasn't recovered from the battering he received from SA about a month ago, seems to be going for 60 runs on average in his 10 overs. So it might look as if the Australian team is soft but that is not the case, they lack serious skills for these conditions. They were so unsure about their batting that they had to replace Agar with Labuschagne which also is troubling them as a good left-arm spin option would have been helpful.

This is not saying that Australia cannot turn it around. While their batting is filled with all-rounders, they can go berserk one their day and score big, just that they will lack consistency. This is what we saw in the bilateral series against India as well, they folded in the first 2 games and then scored 350+ in the third. It is not Cummins's fault, it is just the way Australian team setup is at the moment, they are unsure about their ability in these conditions. The fact that Maxwell has been their best bowler since third ODI against India tells you the story. You cannot play Marsh, Stoinis, Green and Maxwell all in the same team and expect to be consistent. They surely are missing Travis Head as he would have given them the balance they are so badly missing.

Cummins himself I feel wouldn't be in the ODI XI if he wasn't the captain. That makes it difficult for him as well but again they have Abott to replace him which doesn't inspire the Aussies with confidence.
And Aus should keep this team as it's perfect for t20s. Odis are going to be extinct anyway except WCs with t20s the wave of the future. And this a very good t20 team with so many allrounders
 
And Aus should keep this team as it's perfect for t20s. Odis are going to be extinct anyway except WCs with t20s the wave of the future. And this a very good t20 team with so many allrounders
It is still not going to work in all conditions as the bowling is really weak. Their batting even for T20 isn't consistent as Warner's career is done, so they need to find at least few specialist batters. Smith and Labu aren't T20 players, so no they cannot keep this team to T20Is.
 
It is still not going to work in all conditions as the bowling is really weak. Their batting even for T20 isn't consistent as Warner's career is done, so they need to find at least few specialist batters. Smith and Labu aren't T20 players, so no they cannot keep this team to T20Is.
I meant the base core of allrounders. For Smith and Labu need to go ! They are absolutely not fit for T20. Cant believe Smith is highly desired by the IPL franchises. Dont remember a single impactful T20 knock from him. Smith & Labu should just stick to tests now as they are quality test players.
 
I meant the base core of allrounders. For Smith and Labu need to go ! They are absolutely not fit for T20. Cant believe Smith is highly desired by the IPL franchises. Dont remember a single impactful T20 knock from him. Smith & Labu should just stick to tests now as they are quality test players.
Also it's not as if there is a dearth of big hitters in Aus. Just look at the BBL. Dont know why they have to hold on to Smith and Labu in ODIS. There is a quite a bit of quality batsmen that they can pick from BBL especially with T20s being the major share with very few ODIs going forward
 
I don't think it's about killer instinct. More that the Australia team under steve Waugh and Ponting were just ridiculous once in a life time type teams. The overall talent , balance and depth they had meant they almost always found a way to win.

Current Aussie team is still talented but they are on the same level as the other top teams- they just dont have that many stand out players- just good players.
 
Aussies have looked off colour so far. Batting, bowling, fielding and catching everything has been abysmal.

Very unlike Australian for sure, they can still come back but it's not looking good.
 
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It's all about quality. How many of this current Australia team get into the 2003 team? I struggle to think of one.

The 2003 team had a batting line-up that included Gilchrist, Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, Bevan and Symonds. All great ODI cricketers.

They also had a bowling line-up which included McGrath, Warne and Lee.
In odi?
Starc
Smith over Martin
Hazlewood over gillespie
 
They are purposely playing with low intensity

Don’t worry, you will see the Killer instinct the Game after the INDIA match

I disagree bro, their playing with has beens, although even in their current state their still > Pakistan as a team.
 
Cummings is playing with a team at the end of their rope. If you want a genuine opinion, this team was dome and a gone case once 2021 trophy was one.

The fact that their still competitive shows how aus is, but they already know their on last legs.

By 2027 you will see a very very strong team soon enough. Aus at its weakest is still strong lol.
 
I just loved the way Pat Cummins quietly stood at one end with Maxwell not speaking to him at all when Maxwell was murdering the Afghans.

I bet if Babar Azam was at the other end with Maxwell, he would have asked him to slow down.
 
What a team performance, full of match winners, I can't think of a single player who didn't perform
Definitely not got the banter and cockiness of former Australian teams but that's because Steve Smith and the rest of the team have all performed well in India in the IPL and have found a second home for themselves
 
I have never rated Cummins captaincy but he captained at the level of Waugh or Border last night. He didn't have the best team on the field and the conditions weren't made for an Australian side, but through some great bowling choices, amazing fielding and his own bowling he ensured Australia took home it's 6th world cup.
 
Not seeing enough props to who is now the best captain in the world.

Went against the grain and thought for himself and chose to field first when everybody was crying and saying he should’ve batted first. Including Aussie legends.

Brought Maxwell in at a crucial stage to remove Rohit when the mainline pacers were getting hit.

Lead from the front with the ball.

Stayed patient but proactive with field settings, did not panic at the Kohli-Rahul partnership stage, was confident a wicket would come and it did.

Dismissing this Indian line up for 240 is massive in a tournament where they were hitting 300+ for fun.
 
Said it in another thread.

I have never rated Cummins captaincy but he captained at the level of Waugh or Border last night.

He didn't have the best team on the field and the conditions weren't made for an Australian side, but through some great bowling choices, amazing fielding and his own bowling, he ensured we took home our 6th world cup.
 
I remember Babar looking visibly rattled in front of the same crowd and same hostility, zero support.

Pat was there smiling, stoic (yes you can smile while being stoic), and confident.

That energy carried through to the team.

Shaheen is the closest player and captain we have to him. Should have made him all format captain.
 
What a mental monster this guy is. I didn't know this side of him. Leade the team from the front it was him who judged the pitch to perfection specially after 10 overs he got his line and length and th field placement, bowling changes everything was spot on
 
I remember Babar looking visibly rattled in front of the same crowd and same hostility, zero support.

Pat was there smiling, stoic (yes you can smile while being stoic), and confident.

That energy carried through to the team.

Shaheen is the closest player and captain we have to him. Should have made him all format captain.
I get that but I think playing in Ipl in front of the packed stadiums and on Indian tours definitely helps alot. But comparing babar to Cummins let's just say there no comparison at all
 
He is captain cool for sure. Always has a smile on his face and leads the team with his bowling efforts. (y)
 
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