Domestic run machines (continue to) fail in international cricket

[asma_cricfan]

Be it Hafeez, Malik, Azhar, Babar & Sarfraz, who are playing right now or those who are destined to be included due to their piles of runs in domestic (akmals, shan, sami, ahmed, etc). I have a feeling they will fail if not playing in UAE.
Its time to include new young bats before world cup.

 

[Shafi]

Shocking to see who our best domestic players are today

There is no surprise why our recent ODI performance is so poor if you see current one day Cup batting section. The list includes players like Shan, Shafiq, Kamran, Shehzad, Butt, Iftikhar, Wahab, Maqsood and Umar among top 15.

 

[MenInG]

What's shocking?

They are playing well and therefore they are on top.

 

[Fahdi]

Shan Masood has been an utter beast of a batsman this LO season in domestic cricket.

Salman Butt's stats flatter him. His SR is barely passable.

Kamran is fantastic at domestic level. He had good potential at the top level but is too old.

There are other performers as well. Hussain Talat has amazing stats despite batting in the lower order which shows that he can score quickly and reliably at number 5-6. This is honestly the sort of batsman we need.

Sohaib has been terrific.

Saud Shakeel is another player who gives a lot of hope.

 

[Abid Z]

Shan masood is a surprise. Wow!

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Wait.Maqsood is 31 years old?!?!?

 

[Mainul]

Why aren't you mentioning the no 2 in the list who is a real talent and future of Pak cricket?

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]...clearly shows that maqsood and hussain talat should come in with possibility of saud and umar akmal...how can an unfit player perform in 50 game like this .....inzi u are making us maamo.

 

[Shafi]

Why aren't you mentioning the no 2 in the list who is a real talent and future of Pak cricket?

Sami Aslam bats like a tail ender in test. A timid and super slow batsman

 

[Mainul]

Sami Aslam bats like a tail ender in test. A timid and super slow batsman

It will change soon.He played in SENA countries.As a opener it is a tough challenge.He performed well as a debutant.Shehzad Hafeez Masood won't last more than 5 overs there.

 

[MRSN]

I agree with you on young players. At least they can improve and have time on their side but players who been playing for 15+ years and failing what exactly are they going to improve?

About domestic performers failing at international it's because our system is pathetic. Our u-19 has lost three consecutive ODIs against Afghanistan which is shameful. Until we don't improve our system we are going to remain an average side with inconsistent performers.

 

[prop558]

Be it Hafeez, Malik, Azhar, Babar & Sarfraz, who are playing right now or those who are destined to be included due to their piles of runs in domestic (akmals, shan, sami, ahmed, etc). I have a feeling they will fail if not playing in UAE.
Its time to include new young bats before world cup.

Except Sarfraz !! Because he is an excellent strike rotator, something which pakistan lacks big. He stood not out and was rotating strike beautifully.

Hafeez is patheric. I don't why he is in the team. What he did in previous 3 World Cups, what he did in major ICC tournaments, what he did in foreign tours. Still being selected again and again.

Try better player who rotate strikes, Fawad Alam, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Saud Shakeel. By dropping Hafeez.

Babar had bad luck, Sarfraz stood not out.

See how NZ played under enormous quality bowling, single - double and strike rotation. While Pakistanis were block each ball, same what they did in 2011 Semi final, same they do every time.

 

[MRSN]

Except Sarfraz !! Because he is an excellent strike rotator, something which pakistan lacks big. He stood not out and was rotating strike beautifully.

Hafeez is patheric. I don't why he is in the team. What he did in previous 3 World Cups, what he did in major ICC tournaments, what he did in foreign tours. Still being selected again and again.

Try better player who rotate strikes, Fawad Alam, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Saud Shakeel. By dropping Hafeez.

Babar had bad luck, Sarfraz stood not out.

See how NZ played under enormous quality bowling, single - double and strike rotation. While Pakistanis were block each ball, same what they did in 2011 Semi final, same they do every time.

yeah we really did witness his strike rotation in the first two games. lol

when the game is lost and 8 batsmen are back to pavilion he comes to show us his strike rotation skills. Amazing. It's not 70s bro. in 2018 you have to score boundaries as well.

 

[Markhor]

The list of top batsmen in the departmental one day cup is terrifying.

Pakistani batsmanship has gone down the drain.

 

[prop558]

The list of top batsmen in the departmental one day cup is terrifying.

Pakistani batsmanship has gone down the drain.

Not terrifying at all, if any one is scoring, he deserve chance, except those who were tried & test before such as Ahmed Shahzad & Akmal brothers.

Akmal brothers, Hafeez, Ahmed Shahzad, Shoaib Malik, Wahab Riaz all are same thing. We must permanently get rid of these useless players and go for those youngsters who are scoring runs, energetic, passionate and good rotators of strike.

For ODIs, The most deserving players from the domestic are Fawad Alam, Saad Ali, Saud Shakeel, Asad Shafiq & Khuram Manzoor. Because they are getting runs. Either at First Class level or at List A level.

 

[maddgenius]

Not terrifying at all, if any one is scoring, he deserve chance, except those who were tried & test before such as Ahmed Shahzad & Akmal brothers.

Akmal brothers, Hafeez, Ahmed Shahzad, Shoaib Malik, Wahab Riaz all are same thing. We must permanently get rid of these useless players and go for those youngsters who are scoring runs, energetic, passionate and good rotators of strike.

For ODIs, The most deserving players from the domestic are Fawad Alam, Saad Ali, Saud Shakeel, Asad Shafiq & Khuram Manzoor. Because they are getting runs. Either at First Class level or at List A level.

So Ahmed Shahzad and Akmals are tried and tested but Asad Shafiq isn't?
Btw, is it a coincidence that all the deserving players you mentioned are from Karachi?

 

[Hamstead_joy]

This ploy has been repeated so many times, it has become absolutely cringeworthy. These twisted half-truth excuses have reduced the opportunities for many domestic players over the years and are designed to help Hafeez, Akmals and Malik to remain in the team. There is Quaid e Azam trophy where all these players have been playing and many youngsters have shined more than them. There is Saad Ali, and Abid in batting. Sohail Khan , Sadaf, Aizaz in bowling.
Even in this controversial several lists can be made.
Like
i.tried-and-tested,
ii.tried-and-tried-again-no-matter-the-performance
iii.removing-performers-from side-without-reason.

in i list Sohaib Maqsood, Usman Salahuddin, Asghar and few more make the list who were selected, failed and removed not seen again for years, most in this list just warm the benches and come back to get dropped without getting a single match.
the most controversial list ii. is where Ahmed Shehzad, Sami and Shafiq[in tests], Hafeez, Malik, Akmals [Babar Azam included], Imam ul Haq have been given enormous benefits and selected again despite whatever they do. The main reason Pakistan batting order has become an unsolved mystery by even a better captains like Younis and Sarfaraz.
the iii. list [or Asim Kamal list] is for people like Fawad Alam and Sohail Khan who were just plucked out despite performing with managementds petty excuses, whereas the reasons are something else. Fawad Alam as dropped in 2014 with a 42 average to make way for Shoaib Malik, who averages 9 in New Zealand.

 

[moghul]

Wait.Maqsood is 31 years old?!?!?

And Iftikhar only 27

 

[prop558]

It depends which talent from domestic you are picking up.

See they picked up Fawad Alam he scored century on debut against a much stronger Srilankan team (compared to todays srilankan team one of the weakest). Then suddenly he was dropped for unknown reasons. He played well and scored century in Asia Cup 2014 Final but was still dropped by the excuse that he can't hit big shots. Well every player has its own role, ODI is not all about slogging, Every team has 2-3 batsmen who rotate strikes. See how beautifully Taylor & Williamson started strike rotation when pakistanis were bowling good. On the other hand, Pakistani players always start blocking & playing dot balls. which builds unnecessary pressure on the rest of the team.

See Asad Shafiq is way better than Hafeez & Malik in terms of strike rotation. Saad Ali - the highest runs scorer in QA Trophy 2017-18 season, is another prospect as good middle order batsman. So as Saud Shakeel who plays a bit faster.

We need to change the thinking. Means we need to change our whole doctrine regarding modern ODI cricket. Strike rotation is the key. Thats why Sarfraz will be very handy at upper numbers.

 

[Justcrazy]

Selectors are forced to select such players because they keep performing. Its tough , because after all first class games are played for selection , its tough to look beyond stats.

 

[Pete Rose]

You have to ignore the top 5 scorers in doesmtic cricket in Pakistan if they have failed repeatedly in international cricket. Doesmtic cricket has atleast 12 batsmen that average more than 35 and have a strike rate greater than 80. They are not in the eyes of the selection committee that is still trying to rehabilitate the careers of Butt, akmal, shafiq, shehzad etc etc

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Selectors are forced to select such players because they keep performing. Its tough , because after all first class games are played for selection , its tough to look beyond stats.

Bro this won't work. One can't buy selectors excuse. CS Inzamam picks independently, he has been chief selector since 2016. He has not picked any new player outside PSL. There are lot of players who have better average than Ahmed Shehzad from the whole domestic season yet he only has helped debut and repeatedly selected Ahmed Shehzad, Hafeez, Shoaib Malik, Babar Azam, Umar Akmal and lobbied for Salman Butt and Kamran Akmal. Salman Butt has an LA average around 27 and Akmals induction have been resisted by Mickey Arthur.

The players who have been ignored repeatedly despite performances in his tenure are mostly batsmen, Sahibzada Farhan, Hammad Azam, Sohaib Maqsood, Hussain Tallat, Fawad Alam,etc.. Even Faheem Ashraf was picked as a bowler. This is definitely the worst tenure after Wasim Bari who still faces flak for not picking replacement keeper of Kamran Akmal.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]...clearly shows that maqsood and hussain talat should come in with possibility of saud and umar akmal...how can an unfit player perform in 50 game like this .....inzi u are making us maamo.

Maksood was injured, Umar is a TTF, Saud & Talat are too inexperienced to survive against that bounce, swing & seem..... otherwise Ul Haq would have definitely picked them - Imandar admi.

 

[MMHS]

There is no surprise why our recent ODI performance is so poor if you see current one day Cup batting section. The list includes players like Shan, Shafiq, Kamran, Shehzad, Butt, Iftikhar, Wahab, Maqsood and Umar among top 15.
View attachment 78178

Your filter isn't the correct way to analyze batting. Ordering by average isn't the right way, hence some surprising names including Wahab is there. If you want to do meaningful analysis of cricket scores then you have to know what you are looking for, otherwise there is fact, lies & statistics.


We are looking at pure batsmen, who have batted mostly in top 4, may be 5, and there are batting all-rounders at 6-7. Sort them by Average, keep a column for SR and take a cut off for minimum runs & minimum innings - with this criteria (depending on match situation, game has changed from 1990s)

Top 3: Min 250 runs, Min average 40, SR 90, at least 2 innings of 50+. Try to put % of boundary scores ideally for an opener, close to 50% scores should be from boundaries these days (use this equation: (4 X count of 4 + 6 X Count of 6)/Total runs

4-5: Min 200 runs, Min average 50, SR 85, at least 2 not outs (but not essential). Min. boundary % should be around 35-40%

6-7: Min 100 runs, average of 35, SR 100+; no cap for 50+ or not out, but at least 45% from boundary and put an extra column for count of 6 - when you have 5 men on line, 6-7 has to clear them in air.

If you really want to dig in deep, put another column for top 3 - % of team total (team score in those matches), because top 3's first KPI is volume

For 4-5, compare their average with team average (their KPI is to carry the game till end)

For 6-7, their SR vs teams SR in the period they batted (i. e. someone coming at 7 scores 23 of 12, and his team scores 38 in those balls he was in, say 29 balls - guy is doing fantastic).

I actually, don't see stats at the start much - it clutters thought process. Rather I watch batsman, then cross check with stats; otherwise Shan, Sami & Iftekhar has to be in PAK team now; and Azhar should have been in WC 2015 after his PAK Cup batting.

 

[prop558]

 

[PakistanCricketFan]

Except Sarfraz !! Because he is an excellent strike rotator, something which pakistan lacks big. He stood not out and was rotating strike beautifully.

Hafeez is patheric. I don't why he is in the team. What he did in previous 3 World Cups, what he did in major ICC tournaments, what he did in foreign tours. Still being selected again and again.

Try better player who rotate strikes, Fawad Alam, Saad Ali, Asad Shafiq, Saud Shakeel. By dropping Hafeez.

Babar had bad luck, Sarfraz stood not out.

See how NZ played under enormous quality bowling, single - double and strike rotation. While Pakistanis were block each ball, same what they did in 2011 Semi final, same they do every time.

So very true. The lack of rotation, and blocking everything in sight has been a problem for so long and no one sees it.