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Don't ever send England in to bat.........

Junaids

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As a person who was born and bred in England I have looked on with horror over the last two Test series in England as I have repeatedly watched Tim Paine and Jason Holder send England in to bat.

It's never a good idea in England. And it's definitely not a good idea against the 2019/2020 England team.

Let's just take a step back and look at the occasions on which it has happened:

2019 v Australia at Lords
Match drawn, with Australia 4 wickets away from defeat after England scored 258 in the First Innings.

2019 v Australia at The Oval
England won by 135 runs after scoring 294 in the First Innings.

2020 v West Indies at Old Trafford
England won by 113 runs after scoring 469-9 in the First Innings.

2020 v West Indies at Old Trafford
England on course to win after scoring 369 in the First Innings.

This should be a clear and important lesson for Pakistan. Four times in the last two summers England have lost the toss and been inserted to bat: and they have won 3 of them convincingly and they almost won the drawn Test too.

There's another lesson here too. It means that Pakistan should be trying their hardest to ensure that they bat first and bowl second and fourth. That means that they can forget about Sohail Khan or Mohammad Abbas bowling in cloudy conditions on a juicy Day One wicket - it's not going to happen.

Pakistan need to plan to score 250+ on Day 1, so that they can try to defend a score of the same size on Day 5 on an inconsistent surface.
 
I know where you are coming from but records are meant to be broken. We also cannot expose our fragile batting line against an inform Broad/Anderson/Archer on a day 1 morning.

Pakistani bowlers are also in form and if you think with courage and a bit positively, we can bundle out England for 150, score 350, and then get them out cheaply again.

My prediction is that none of the Pakistan/England tests would go into the deep end of Day 5, unless time was lost to rain.
 
agree with OP, bowling first in a test should only be reserved for conditions where u know you can get the batting team out for under 200. batting last on any pitch, even with a moderate target is difficult, you have to expect at least two or three unlucky wickets.

also if pak insert england, and england rack up 50/1, theres no way azhar ali will have the fortitude to stick to attacking fields. can imagine that score after 17 or 18 overs, yasir shah coming in to bowl, a deep point, deep mid wicket, a slip and a deepish silly man... by then u've pretty much conceded the advantage of bowling first.
 
I know where you are coming from but records are meant to be broken. We also cannot expose our fragile batting line against an inform Broad/Anderson/Archer on a day 1 morning.

Pakistani bowlers are also in form and if you think with courage and a bit positively, we can bundle out England for 150, score 350, and then get them out cheaply again.

My prediction is that none of the Pakistan/England tests would go into the deep end of Day 5, unless time was lost to rain.

My friend, that's the trap.

Archer isn't really a great Day 1 bowler: he's an express speedster who is slightly better on Day 2 when the pitch gains a bit of pace.

Anderson and Broad have played against Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq and even Shan Masood for years. And now they are older and slower.

It's a very defensive move to hide from batting against them on Day 1. But also, it looks increasingly certain that Yasir Shah is going to be batting at Number 8, and he will only be effective on a crumbling final day pitch against batsmen trying to either survive or to knock off quick runs.

There is nothing about Shaheen Shah Afridi or Naseem Shah which makes them particularly suited to bowling on a Day 1 English track. Far better to get some runs on the scoreboard and try to beat England by making them chase the game.
 
It's the modern game, win the toss and bat, and if you get 300-350 you are in control as most teams now are more suited to being good front runners.
 
If England field four fast bowlers, it is hard for opposition batters to tackle them as well. With a bit of early assistance, they can really run through the teams in England conditions with the Duke ball.

For Pakistan, the major cause can come from Archer because he is known for bowling those nasty bouncers which can make life tougher for Pakistan batting.

Anderson with the new ball is another challenge, basically he is a challenge to any lineup in those conditions and same would be the case for Pakistan.

We have seen what Broad and Woakes can do but for Pakistan batting, I see the above two as more serious threat.
 
If England field four fast bowlers, it is hard for opposition batters to tackle them as well. With a bit of early assistance, they can really run through the teams in England conditions with the Duke ball.

For Pakistan, the major cause can come from Archer because he is known for bowling those nasty bouncers which can make life tougher for Pakistan batting.

Anderson with the new ball is another challenge, basically he is a challenge to any lineup in those conditions and same would be the case for Pakistan.

We have seen what Broad and Woakes can do but for Pakistan batting, I see the above two as more serious threat.
You have to bat against the England bowlers anyway.

But play to your strengths - Yasir Shah is going to do a lot more damage on Day 5 than on Day 1.

Plus England always win when the opposition puts them in to bat!
 
I suppose some captains are truly scared that they may lose the Test in first session and a half by getting bowled out for 80-100 odd which will get them crucified by media.

By sticking England in, you're still going to lose but you'll lose 3-4 days later and then you can count on journalist sympathy by citing 'aggressi e' tactics
 
You have to bat against the England bowlers anyway.

But play to your strengths - Yasir Shah is going to do a lot more damage on Day 5 than on Day 1.

Plus England always win when the opposition puts them in to bat!

Probably true. When you are not clear, you still opt to bat first and irrespective of whether England continue with four pacers and Stokes strategy, the best bet for a visiting team is to bat first and put 250+ on board.

However, I am not too sure with relying on Yasir Shah. Their pacers have to do the job with the new bowl.
 
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Probably true. When you are not clear, you still opt to bat first and irrespective of whether England continue with four pacers and Stokes strategy, the best bet for a visiting team is to bat first and put 250+ on board.

However, I am not too sure with relying on Yasir Shah. Their pacers have to do the job with the new bowl.

Both Old Trafford and Southampton are faster on Day 2 than Day 1. Not as green, but faster.

So by batting first come-what-may, Pakistan avoid facing Archer when the pitch is at its quickest, plus they get the advantage of bowling last when their spinner may come in useful.
 
After and Anderson and broad the drop off in quality is evident in the England attack, archer is in early days , woakes is a new ball bowler, without that his effectiveness is diminished, stokes is injured, and young Bess is very raw.
 
I think, it's more to do with the batting ability of England's opponents, rather than when they are batting.

Arguably, PAK & WIN are the two of the weakest batting line-ups in Test, particularly if they are chase hence batting first seems to be order of the day. But in English condition, I think PAK should use their good judgement at toss and decide as per the condition. In recent times, WIN, NZ has won Tests against ENG batting second and historically PAK has done well in UK, when they have inserted hosts in. IN 1987, 1992 & 1996 four out of five Tests were won chasing, in 2005, PAK would have won that famous Oval Test chasing, in 2010 a very young PAK team won a Test chasing against the best team in world that time; in 2016 & 2018, two of the three wins were completed by chasing and PAK should have avoided defeat at Birmingham in 2016, also chasing. On contrary, the loss in 1992 was after batting first, I believe one of the 2005 Test was lost batting first, in 2010 one Test, and in 2018 another Test was lost batting first.

I don't think it must not be a situation where PAK blindly should bat first if they win the toss - last Test in UK (Leeds), one such call almost resulted into a two day loss. However, looking at the wickets and the strength of PAK batting + England's own batting issues (& skills against spinners), may be batting first should be the best option; probably 4 times out of 5.... but if applicable, I hope PAK can identify that one Test where they should put Poms in. It should never be like a formula, where after each iteration the result always comes "bat first", every time. On a greenish top, under cloud Jimmy-Berbi might send PAK to first lunch at 74/7 .....
 
If you put the oppo in to bat you really need to shoot them out for under 200. Else you lose the initiative and start playing catch-up.
 
The rule is always unless you definetly can bundle out the opposition for a less than 200 you always bat first

95% of the time you should be looking to win the toss and bat first
 
Playing last in test matches is never a great idea unless you see a huge first inning advantage.

As history teaches you, anything over 150 is tough to chase. Anything over 200 puts the odds in favour of defending team. Anything over 250 is like 90% in favour of defending team
 
In the last innings usually 4th and 5th day the pitch becomes tired, uneven, takes more spin and theres the added pressure of chasing or defending a total which can mess up the minds of the best batsmen

Theres a reason why most batsmen in the last innings dont avge a lot and hence its best avoided to bat last
 
The bowling team also seem to always bowl with new found spring in their legs when they have to defend a target in test matches. This is a human factor irrespective of pitch conditions.

1st inning : 220
2nd inning : 320
3rd inning: 300
4th inning - 200 to win All out for 172

Something like this happens so many times. A team losing in 4th inning, despite practically dominating 3 innings.
 
The bowling team also seem to always bowl with new found spring in their legs when they have to defend a target in test matches. This is a human factor irrespective of pitch conditions.

1st inning : 220
2nd inning : 320
3rd inning: 300
4th inning - 200 to win All out for 172

Something like this happens so many times. A team losing in 4th inning, despite practically dominating 3 innings.

All home dominant teams are huge beneficiaries of this.
 
This applies to all teams and not just England. You have to be bonkers to bowl first in a Test match unless it is a proper green-top.
 
Hmm... I remember our last 2 Test wins in England (4th Test 2016, 1st Test 2018) coming with England batting first. I also recall thrashing England pretty bad in those matches.
 
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The assessment in OP seems to be spot on, and not just because it's validated with actual records but it's quite simply how England team's balance is...

They bat deep, all they need is 2 to 3 batsman to chip in with 50s and they are over 200.

And if they have been sent into bat, it means the opposition expected them to roll over for 100-150, so yeah it's not really a good idea to do that unless you have an attack like Australia's and even they have struggled to seize the advantage in such cases.
 
As a person who was born and bred in England I have looked on with horror over the last two Test series in England as I have repeatedly watched Tim Paine and Jason Holder send England in to bat.

It's never a good idea in England. And it's definitely not a good idea against the 2019/2020 England team.

Let's just take a step back and look at the occasions on which it has happened:

2019 v Australia at Lords
Match drawn, with Australia 4 wickets away from defeat after England scored 258 in the First Innings.

2019 v Australia at The Oval
England won by 135 runs after scoring 294 in the First Innings.

2020 v West Indies at Old Trafford
England won by 113 runs after scoring 469-9 in the First Innings.

2020 v West Indies at Old Trafford
England on course to win after scoring 369 in the First Innings.

This should be a clear and important lesson for Pakistan. Four times in the last two summers England have lost the toss and been inserted to bat: and they have won 3 of them convincingly and they almost won the drawn Test too.

There's another lesson here too. It means that Pakistan should be trying their hardest to ensure that they bat first and bowl second and fourth. That means that they can forget about Sohail Khan or Mohammad Abbas bowling in cloudy conditions on a juicy Day One wicket - it's not going to happen.

Pakistan need to plan to score 250+ on Day 1, so that they can try to defend a score of the same size on Day 5 on an inconsistent surface.

You get good tosses to lose in England too. We will take one of those where itay be a difficult morning to bat but you expect it to be flat by mid afternoon

Then our 3 quicks run amok.
Go back and look at a lot of our SENA overseas wins in last 10 years and they have been like that.
 
The rule is always unless you definetly can bundle out the opposition for a less than 200 you always bat first

95% of the time you should be looking to win the toss and bat first

Sage.
 
Any team that bat first generally have an advantage (with occasional exceptions). Batting last is always a challenge.
 
I would risk it and bat first. If we can get through the first session without much alarm, the boys will get some confidence and England may lose a bit of theirs. I want to see a Pakistani batsman hit a decent score first up and everyone else bat around him. I don't care who it is. It will be cloudy and teh ball will move around but thats what your paid to do in england. the risk in this match is we bat first, get bundled out and england get the next two days of sunshine and a flat surface.

Or we bowl first they get through the morning and then get nice conditions. Catch twenty two, either way if we dont play well in either department we will deserve what they dish out to us.
 
Too windy in Manchester today to bowl. An absolute batting day.
 
If they win the toss and bat, it’s all good. But this is a correct analysis
 
#AsianBloc goes into this test with an advantage.

It's a sign of good things to come, hopefully.
 
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