Erdogan says Macron ’needs treatment’ over attitude to Muslims

[Abdullah719]

Erdogan says Macron ’needs treatment’ over attitude to Muslims

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has launched a fresh attack on his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron, saying he needed treatment and “mental checks” over his attitude towards Muslims and Islam.

Earlier this month, Macron pledged to fight “Islamist separatism”, which he said was threatening to take control in some Muslim communities around France, drawing a sharp rebuke from Erdogan.

France has since been shaken by the beheading of a history teacher earlier this month. The assailant had wanted to avenge the teacher’s use of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in a class on freedom of expression.

“What is the problem of this person called Macron with Muslims and Islam? Macron needs treatment on a mental level,” Erdogan said in a speech at a provincial congress of his AK Party in the central Turkish city of Kayseri on Saturday.

“What else can be said to a head of state who does not understand freedom of belief and who behaves in this way to millions of people living in his country who are members of a different faith?” Erdogan said. “First of all, have mental checks.”

France said it was recalling its envoy to Turkey for consultations after “unacceptable” comments by Erdogan questioning Macron’s mental health.

“President Erdogan’s comments are unacceptable. Excess and rudeness are not a method. We demand that Erdogan change the course of his policy because it is dangerous in every respect,” a French presidential official told the AFP news agency.

The Elysee official, who asked not to be named, also said France had noted “the absence of messages of condolence and support” from the Turkish president after the beheading of teacher Samuel Paty outside Paris.

Erdogan’s Islamist-rooted AK Party first came to power in 2002. He has sought to shift Islam into the mainstream of politics in Turkey, an overwhelmingly Muslim but secular country.

The Turkish president said on October 6 after Macron’s initial comments on “Islamist separatism”, that the remarks were “a clear provocation” and showed the French leader’s “impertinence”.

Macron this month also described Islam as a religion “in crisis” worldwide and said the government would present a bill in December to strengthen a 1905 law that officially separated church and state in France.

France and its NATO ally are at loggerheads over a range of issues including maritime rights in the eastern Mediterranean, Libya, Syria and most recently the escalating conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh.

Erdogan and Macron discussed their disagreements in a phone call last month and agreed to improve ties and keep communication channels open.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ays-macron-needs-treatment-over-attitude-to-m

 

[MenInG]

France has recalled its ambassador to Turkey for consultations after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan insulted his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron.

He said Mr Macron needed a mental health check for pledging to defend secular values and fight radical Islam.

Mr Macron has spoken out forcefully on these issues after a French teacher was murdered for showing cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in class.

France "will not give up our cartoons", he said earlier this week.

Depictions of the Prophet Muhammad can cause serious offence to Muslims because Islamic tradition explicitly forbids images of Muhammad and Allah (God).

But state secularism - or laïcité - is central to France's national identity. Curbing freedom of expression to protect the feelings of one particular community, the state says, undermines the country's unity.

Responding to Mr Macron's campaign to defend such values -*which began before the teacher was murdered*- Mr Erdogan asked in a speech: "What's the problem of the individual called Macron with Islam and with the Muslims?"

He added: "Macron needs treatment on a mental level.

"What else can be said to a head of state who does not understand freedom of belief and who behaves in this way to millions of people living in his country who are members of a different faith?"

Beheading of teacher deepens divisions in FranceFrench Muslims fear state aims to control their faithDon't stigmatise Muslims says Macron amid veil row

In the wake of the remarks, a French presidential official told AFP news agency that France's ambassador to Turkey was being recalled for consultations, and would be meeting Mr Macron.

"President Erdogan's comments are unacceptable. Excess and rudeness are not a method. We demand that Erdogan change the course of his policy because it is dangerous in every respect," the official was quoted as saying.

Erodgan is a pious Muslim who has sought to move Islam into Turkey's mainstream politics since his Islamist-rooted AK Party came to power in 2002.

IMAGE COPYRIGHTREUTERS

image captionPresident Erdogan said: "Macron needs treatment at a mental level"

The diplomatic spat is latest issue to strain relations between France and Turkey, who are allies under Nato but disagree on a range of geo-political issues, including the civil wars in Syria and Libya, and the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over disputed Nagorno-Karabakh.

Seven people, including two students, have been charged over the beheading of French teacher Samuel Paty on 16 October near Paris. His killer, 18-year-old Abdullakh Anzorov, was shot dead by police shortly after the attack, which took place near Mr Paty's school.

media captionRallies in Paris, Toulouse, Lyon and other French cities in support of Samuel Paty

In 2015, 12 people were killed in an attack on the offices of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. The publication was targeted by extremists for publishing cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Earlier this month, Mr Macron described Islam as a religion "in crisis," and announced plans for tougher laws to tackle what he called "Islamist separatism" in France.

He said a minority of France's estimated six million Muslims were in danger of forming a "counter-society".

Some in Western Europe's largest Muslim community have accused Mr Macron of trying to repress their religion and say his campaign risks legitimising Islamophobia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54678826

 

[Giannis]

This is funny, Macron does need to see a therapist and he got his behind hurt over these comments that he pulled out his ambassdor from Turkey . Imagine being so narcisstic and petty that you would downgrade diplomatic relations over a personal statement cause it hurt your ego . I guess my assessment of French culture and Macron the other day was right, this is a great example.

 

[Madplayer]

Whatever happened to free speech now?

There is something to ponder upon here. Macron is recalling the french ambassador over an insult made to him while no muslim country sent back french ambassador over insults to Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh).

 

[IAJ]

Whatever happened to free speech now?

There is something to ponder upon here. Macron is recalling the french ambassador over an insult made to him while no muslim country sent back french ambassador over insults to Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh).

I also watched a video clip where a young man called him «Manu» and he got offended and asked the man to apologise and instead call him «Sir» or «Mr President».

 

[CricketCartoons]

Whatever happened to free speech now?

There is something to ponder upon here. Macron is recalling the french ambassador over an insult made to him while no muslim country sent back french ambassador over insults to Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh).

Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

 

[Itachi]

Whatever happened to free speech now?

There is something to ponder upon here. Macron is recalling the french ambassador over an insult made to him while no muslim country sent back french ambassador over insults to Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh).

Erdogan can say whatever he wants to say (free speech). But that doesn't mean there won't be any repercussions.

Recalling ambassador (repercussion).

 

[Madplayer]

Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Erdogan can say whatever he wants to say (free speech). But that doesn't mean there won't be any repercussions.

Recalling ambassador (repercussion).

Most people do not translate it like that. The supporters of free speech say that they should be allowed to say anything and should not be punished or acted against for it.

 

[Madplayer]

I also watched a video clip where a young man called him «Manu» and he got offended and asked the man to apologise and instead call him «Sir» or «Mr President».

I watched that too.

Btw IK has released a statement now.

 

[Itachi]

Most people do not translate it like that. The supporters of free speech say that they should be allowed to say anything and should not be punished or acted against for it.

Well, I disagree with them then. In life, whatever you do or say, will have consequences at the end of the path. Free speech for me is when the system doesn't obstruct you in voicing it though that doesn't mean there won't be any consequences.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Great point. This is what all those who backed the Charlie Hebdo cartoons need to understand as well.

 

[IMMY69]

This thread has me all confused.

It’s ok for Macron to talk about Islam and say it’s in trouble.
This is free speech and Macron is exercising his rights and there should be no repercussion.

Erdogan says something in reply to Macron, something that can be construed as insulting.
This is free speech and Erdogan is exercising his rights.

Fine for Macron to bring back his diplomat but what Erdogan said must have a repercussion. Why so?

 

[Syed1]

Macron is 41 year old and married a 66 year old who has two sons aged 44 and 42. He is younger than his step sons.

Psycho person

 

[CricketCartoons]

Great point. This is what all those who backed the Charlie Hebdo cartoons need to understand as well.

agreed. the hebdo backers have the freedom to outrage or cry when there are consequences, but they should accept that it is a consequence for what charlie hebdo did.

 

[Varun]

How many Muslims has Macron killed vs the ones Erdoğan killed?

 

[CricketCartoons]

This thread has me all confused.

It’s ok for Macron to talk about Islam and say it’s in trouble.
This is free speech and Macron is exercising his rights and there should be no repercussion.

This is wrong statement. There could be repercussions. macron should be willing to bear them if he wants to exercise the french ideal of free speech.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This thread has me all confused.

It’s ok for Macron to talk about Islam and say it’s in trouble.
This is free speech and Macron is exercising his rights and there should be no repercussion.

Erdogan says something in reply to Macron, something that can be construed as insulting.
This is free speech and Erdogan is exercising his rights.

Fine for Macron to bring back his diplomat but what Erdogan said must have a repercussion. Why so?

Yes muslims in france seem to have started a feud with the non muslims. Macron is well within his rights to comment and do anything that french law permits him to do.

Erdogan changed Hagia Sofia to a mosque. His country his authority. Now why poke his nose in France?

Problem with Erdogan and almost every head of a Muslim majority state is that they hardly give rights to non muslims in muslim majority countries while they demand or believe that muslims are entitled to all or even special rights in non muslim countries.

 

[Syed1]

Yes muslims in france seem to have started a feud with the non muslims. Macron is well within his rights to comment and do anything that french law permits him to do.

Erdogan changed Hagia Sofia to a mosque. His country his authority. Now why poke his nose in France?

Problem with Erdogan and almost every head of a Muslim majority state is that they hardly give rights to non muslims in muslim majority countries while they demand or believe that muslims are entitled to all or even special rights in non muslim countries.

Lol Turkey is more secular than your sh_thole secular India where 50 Muslims were slaughtered in your capital just this year.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes muslims in france seem to have started a feud with the non muslims. Macron is well within his rights to comment and do anything that french law permits him to do.

Erdogan changed Hagia Sofia to a mosque. His country his authority. Now why poke his nose in France?

Problem with Erdogan and almost every head of a Muslim majority state is that they hardly give rights to non muslims in muslim majority countries while they demand or believe that muslims are entitled to all or even special rights in non muslim countries.

Interesting that you have chosen to start your rebuttal with that sentence. In what way do you feel that Muslims have started a feud with non-Muslims in France?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Interesting that you have chosen to start your rebuttal with that sentence. In what way do you feel that Muslims have started a feud with non-Muslims in France?

Well Yes, its a clash of cultures. The native french culture and that of immigrant muslims.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well Yes, its a clash of cultures. The native french culture and that of immigrant muslims.

But you said quite specifically that it was the Muslims in France who had started the feud with non-Muslims. Now when I ask for clarification you are not able to back up your statement and start bumbling and stuttering about a general clash of cultures. Do you feel perhaps that your initial claim was coloured by clear and demonstrable prejudice?

 

[cricketjoshila]

But you said quite specifically that it was the Muslims in France who had started the feud with non-Muslims. Now when I ask for clarification you are not able to back up your statement and start bumbling and stuttering about a general clash of cultures. Do you feel perhaps that your initial claim was coloured by clear and demonstrable prejudice?

The clash has been started by the immigrant muslims with the use of violence. So yes its the muslims who have started this clash of cultures.

 

[Zaz]

The clash has been started by the immigrant muslims with the use of violence. So yes its the muslims who have started this clash of cultures.

What violence? Your talking like there are riots going on in paris between muslims and non muslims

Think youve got delhi and paris mixed up my friend

 

[Zaz]

Lol Turkey is more secular than your sh_thole secular India where 50 Muslims were slaughtered in your capital just this year.

According to our friends across the border the hindus doing the killings in india are peace loving and non ex
extremist

Its the bad muslims getting killed by them who are the problem Makes sense

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Interesting that you have chosen to start your rebuttal with that sentence. In what way do you feel that Muslims have started a feud with non-Muslims in France?

By beheading a teacher over some cartoons.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What violence? Your talking like there are riots going on in paris between muslims and non muslims

Think youve got delhi and paris mixed up my friend

Indeed. Not only has our hindu friend made the prejudiced claim that the Muslims started the clash with non-Muslims, and failed to back it up with a chain of events to back up his spurious claim, now he is attributing the actions of a handful of extremists to the whole of the Muslim population in France. Says a lot about the mindset some people are carrying.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

By beheading a teacher over some cartoons.

Untrue.

 

[Zaz]

By beheading a teacher over some cartoons.

So the actions of one person someone whos possibly not mentally right means muslims have started a feud in france against non muslims?

I hope you can hear yourself

 

[Itachi]

So the actions of one person someone whos possibly not mentally right means muslims have started a feud in france against non muslims?

I hope you can hear yourself

I've seen lots of support and justification for that beheading here especially from some UK ppers.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

So the actions of one person someone whos possibly not mentally right means muslims have started a feud in france against non muslims?

I hope you can hear yourself

Are all the killings done by Muslims including Muslim on Muslim violence is done by mentally unstable people?

 

[Local.Dada]

So the actions of one person someone whos possibly not mentally right means muslims have started a feud in france against non muslims?

I hope you can hear yourself

It’s not one off. Twin towers, ISIS,OBL, Iraq,Afghanistan,Charlie Hebedo, Mumbai bomb blasts, 26-11, terrorist incidents in UK,France and other parts of Europe,Taliban. All those “groups” that support insurgency in Kashmir etc etc etc etc. This is when it’s about time for the good and pious muslims of the great religion of Islam to step back and question why is all this happening.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

So killing of teacher was right?

 

[Syed1]

So killing of teacher was right?

So if a Hindu kills a Muslim it is ok for all Muslims to start abusing Ram, Krishna etc?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I've seen lots of support and justification for that beheading here especially from some UK ppers.

Was the question about UK PP'ers? Do you think maybe they were responsible for French Muslims starting the feud with non-Muslims in France?

 

[Tubs]

Great point. This is what all those who backed the Charlie Hebdo cartoons need to understand as well.

Ah yes, Macron being a bit of an ego maniac over being (in his eyes) disrespected is comparable to murder over cartoons. Great to see true colours yet again.

 

[James]

So killing of teacher was right?

I think that’s quite the leap.
I’m sure that [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] was not saying that.

He is correct on the general point that freedom of speech does not exempt one from the consequences of their actions.

It is in fact possible to oppose both the horrifying, disgusting and senseless murder of a schoolteacher, and also to simultaneously oppose the sharing of disrespectful cartoons which denigrate religious figures.

 

[Itachi]

Was the question about UK PP'ers? Do you think maybe they were responsible for French Muslims starting the feud with non-Muslims in France?

Its an observation. I don't think it's not allowed to express.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ah yes, Macron being a bit of an ego maniac over being (in his eyes) disrespected is comparable to murder over cartoons. Great to see true colours yet again.

I was going to add a disclaimer that in no way did it justify murder, but then thought why should I? If people can't read and want to make up their own stories, let them get on with it.

 

[Local.Dada]

I was going to add a disclaimer that in no way did it justify murder, but then thought why should I? If people can't read and want to make up their own stories, let them get on with it.

It wasn’t a murder. It was an execution. Since you see yourself as British and English is probably your 2nd language by that virtue hope you get the difference between the 2 in this context

 

[Syed1]

France should return it's world Cup. More than half their squad was comprised of Arab/African immigrants. Heck their star player Paul Pogba is Muslim lmaoooo

 

[CricketCartoons]

So killing of teacher was right?

It was a consequence. Didn't say anything about it being right or wrong.

 

[Tubs]

I was going to add a disclaimer that in no way did it justify murder, but then thought why should I? If people can't read and want to make up their own stories, let them get on with it.

The whole 'freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence' notion only works when the consequence is within the legal realm (don't point to blasphemy laws, as there obviously isn't freedom of speech in those countries). If you don't think it justifies murder, then I fail to see your point at all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It wasn’t a murder. It was an execution. Since you see yourself as British and English is probably your 2nd language by that virtue hope you get the difference between the 2 in this context

The point that was being debated was your fellow Indian's assertion that the Muslims of France had started the feud with non-Muslims. Neither he nor you or your friends have been able to justify that statement, instead you are showing your frustration by trying to talk about British Muslims instead, most of those statements also being wildly inaccurate.

By all means discuss Brits, or Pakistanis if you want, but start a thread or bump an old one and we can do it in an appropriate context. If you want to quote me then stick to what I am talking about and don't start diving off into desperate directions.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The whole 'freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence' notion only works when the consequence is within the legal realm (don't point to blasphemy laws, as there obviously isn't freedom of speech in those countries). If you don't think it justifies murder, then I fail to see your point at all.

Not even sure what you are saying to be honest. Why are you quoting me?

 

[cricketjoshila]

What violence? Your talking like there are riots going on in paris between muslims and non muslims

Think youve got delhi and paris mixed up my friend

Charlie Hebdo attacks.

PariS attacks

Nice terror attack

Paris police headquarters attack

Recent beheading.

These are from the top of my head.

 

[Madplayer]

Charlie Hebdo attacks.

PariS attacks

Nice terror attack

Paris police headquarters attack

Recent beheading.

These are from the top of my head.

This is a poor one even going by your own standards lol

 

[Kriketer]

hahaha what a drama queen. Talks about freedom of expression and called back ambassador over someone's comments. More funny are Bhartis here defending him with silly typical rhetoric (verbal diarrhea). He has been exposed big times and couldn't even stand lil comments which hurt his ego

 

[cricketjoshila]

Has France even bothered to reply to the tweets of imran khan?

 

[MenInG]

Has France even bothered to reply to the tweets of imran khan?

He should as Pakistan is an important Muslim state.

 

[Kriketer]

Are all the killings done by Muslims including Muslim on Muslim violence is done by mentally unstable people?

Ofcourse you have to be mentally unstable to kill innocent civilians. Islam clearly speaks against it.

Ask your PM when he allowed butchering 3,000 civilians and your army who have been torturing, raping and killing innocent civilians for decades...they are equally mentally unstable. You folks couldn't even stand a recent ad and bowed down to your mass extremists (a usual now for you folks) #dramademocracy

 

[Zaz]

Has France even bothered to reply to the tweets of imran khan?

It bothered them when erodogan made his comments They got upset and recalled their ambassador

 

[Zaz]

Charlie Hebdo attacks.

PariS attacks

Nice terror attack

Paris police headquarters attack

Recent beheading.

These are from the top of my head.

Theres terrorism going on all over the world

Theres plenty of supremacists massacring people all over the world Hindus killing people in india etc etc

Fundamentalism isnt retricted to brown people from muslim countries

 

[cricketjoshila]

It bothered them when erodogan made his comments They got upset and recalled their ambassador

Erdogan and Turkey are not the same as Imran and Pakistan. Turkey is still a NATO country and has far more economic and diplomatic clout than Pakistan.

 

[Zaz]

Erdogan and Turkey are not the same as Imran and Pakistan. Turkey is still a NATO country and has far more economic and diplomatic clout than Pakistan.

Whether it bothers them or not doesnt matter

Good on imran for making a point

 

[cricketjoshila]

Theres terrorism going on all over the world

Theres plenty of supremacists massacring people all over the world Hindus killing people in india etc etc

Fundamentalism isnt retricted to brown people from muslim countries

French and Macron are concerned about France.

Can you compare the number of incidents of other supermacists vis a vis Muslims in relation to terror attacks?

Muslims have been involved in terrorist attack all over the world, nice try dragging in others. But it wont wash with others.

There is a systematic attempt of radicalisation of muslims. Only muslims will be able to stop it. Its time they realise it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Whether it bothers them or not doesnt matter

Good on imran for making a point

A point is made only if the other side hears it.Else its pointless noise.

 

[Vegitto1]

A serious question to Hindu PPers, will you guys be ok with a cartoon depicting Krishna, Shiva and Hanuman engaging in a homosexual threesome?

And are you telling me that Indians living in India and around the World will not be offended?

 

[Zaz]

A point is made only if the other side hears it.Else its pointless noise.

Who says they didnt hear it? Indians did n r bothered about it so much they had to come jumping into this thread If imran was so unimportant why would u care?

So im sure the french have heard it too

 

[Zaz]

French and Macron are concerned about France.

Can you compare the number of incidents of other supermacists vis a vis Muslims in relation to terror attacks?

Muslims have been involved in terrorist attack all over the world, nice try dragging in others. But it wont wash with others.

There is a systematic attempt of radicalisation of muslims. Only muslims will be able to stop it. Its time they realise it.

Theres stats out there clearly stating there are a lot more terrorism incidents from non muslims than muslims but u carry on with your agenda When did facts matter?

 

[Itachi]

Theres stats out there clearly stating there are a lot more terrorism incidents from non muslims than muslims but u carry on with your agenda When did facts matter?

Can you provide the stats?

 

[Madplayer]

A serious question to Hindu PPers, will you guys be ok with a cartoon depicting Krishna, Shiva and Hanuman engaging in a homosexual threesome?

And are you telling me that Indians living in India and around the World will not be offended?

Lisa scrapped her swimwear line for Australia Fashion Week after a whiplash of fury unleashed by Hindu groups at her use of images of the goddess on bikini bottoms. She apologised and halted production of the bikini line. Not a single one of the deified swimsuits that defied the goddess will hit the racks!
A statement issued by the designer’s company Lisa Blue claimed that usage of the goddess’s image was “an attempt to celebrate different cultures”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/O-zone/fashion-fury/

Hindus got upset even when nobody deliberately tried to offend them.

 

[Itachi]

Lisa scrapped her swimwear line for Australia Fashion Week after a whiplash of fury unleashed by Hindu groups at her use of images of the goddess on bikini bottoms. She apologised and halted production of the bikini line. Not a single one of the deified swimsuits that defied the goddess will hit the racks!
A statement issued by the designer’s company Lisa Blue claimed that usage of the goddess’s image was “an attempt to celebrate different cultures”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/O-zone/fashion-fury/

Hindus got upset even when nobody deliberately tried to offend them.

There's a difference between getting upset and introducing terrorism/beheading people over religion worldwide.

Former is normal human reaction while latter isn't.

 

[Madplayer]

There's a difference between getting upset and introducing terrorism/beheading people over religion worldwide.

Former is normal human reaction while latter isn't.

Exactly and lynching people on mere allegations of eating beef is also not sane behaviour but what we do is that we catch those who lynch others and punish them rather than organising govt. sponsored beef eating and cow slaughter parties and public celebrations in solidarity with those who were lynched.

 

[Thomaskutty]

And are you telling me that Indians living in India and around the World will not be offended?

Indians are not going to behead anyone over a cartoon, get that into your head.

 

[Kriketer]

There's a difference between getting upset and introducing terrorism/beheading people over religion worldwide.

Former is normal human reaction while latter isn't.

But you don't get the point. Why did it hurt Hindus if they believe in freedom of expression? Muslims don't agree with attacking people who mock Islam, but reaction scale is not the point. You pretend that world is fine with mockeries about other religions, culture etc, while Muslims are crazy about such things.

Why was it offensive to have Indian deity in bikini bottoms? Why make a clothing line take it down when they can openly express their freedom of expression?

 

[Itachi]

Exactly and lynching people on mere allegations of eating beef is also not sane behaviour but what we do is that we catch those who lynch others and punish them rather than organising govt. sponsored beef eating and cow slaughter parties and public celebrations in solidarity with those who were lynched.

Lynching certainly shouldn't happen and every allegations should be followed with the legal framework. There will be localized incidents happen regardless of countries and different systems.

But when it comes to global terrorism, most organizations claim to be follow the particular religion. Do you believe it is easier to brainwash common Muslims by using the religion as a weapon and misinterpreting quotes?

 

[Kriketer]

Indians are not going to behead anyone over a cartoon.

They do elect a PM who let thousand innocent get butchered, butcher openly for beef eating, openly support their butchering army killing thousands in Kashmir for decades etc etc. Atleast we Muslims condemn terrorist attacks, while majority of you Hindutva support it. I mean no bigger example than electing a banned terrorist/mass murderer twice as PM.

 

[MenInG]

There's a difference between getting upset and introducing terrorism/beheading people over religion worldwide.

Former is normal human reaction while latter isn't.

So you feel that something like what Vegitto1 suggested happening in India will result in people sending polite letters to their newspaper editor?

 

[Madplayer]

Indians are not going to behead anyone over a cartoon, get that into your head.

Yes they just burn them alive on any pretext.

"Graham Stuart Staines (1942 – 23 January 1999) was an Australian Christian missionary, who along with his two sons, Philip (aged 10) and Timothy (aged 6), was burnt to death in India by members of a Hindu fundamentalist group named Bajrang Dal."

 

[Itachi]

But you don't get the point. Why did it hurt Hindus if they believe in freedom of expression? Muslims don't agree with attacking people who mock Islam, but reaction scale is not the point. You pretend that world is fine with mockeries about other religions, culture etc, while Muslims are crazy about such things.

Why was it offensive to have Indian deity in bikini bottoms? Why make a clothing line take it down when they can openly express their freedom of expression?

They did the fashion show. It was their freedom expression.

Indians expressed disagreement with the message. It's their freedom of expression.

No one went crazy over it and beheaded someone for it while same can not be said for others where people got beheaded over disagreement.

 

[Thomaskutty]

"Graham Stuart Staines (1942 – 23 January 1999) was an Australian Christian missionary, who along with his two sons, Philip (aged 10) and Timothy (aged 6), was burnt to death in India by members of a Hindu fundamentalist group named Bajrang Dal."

The difference is everyone condemns that incident, they don't say 'He was asking for it' .. like numerous posters on here.

 

[Itachi]

So you feel that something like what Vegitto1 suggested happening in India will result in people sending polite letters to their newspaper editor?

If someone is threatening via any medium, the person/organization should go through the legal system for protection. No one has denied their right for protection.

Opposing views and threatening someone over their views are totally different aspect.

 

[Madplayer]

Lynching certainly shouldn't happen and every allegations should be followed with the legal framework. There will be localized incidents happen regardless of countries and different systems.

But when it comes to global terrorism, most organizations claim to be follow the particular religion. Do you believe it is easier to brainwash common Muslims by using the religion as a weapon and misinterpreting quotes?

So you've now diverted the discussion to global terrorism when the discussion was about whether only muslims get upset over attacks on their religion.

 

[Itachi]

So you've now diverted the discussion to global terrorism when the discussion was about whether only muslims get upset over attacks on their religion.

Because a localized incident doesn't necessarily represent development an ideology spread across the system.

But when you have a global issue where the entities claim to follow some ideology, and a share of common people supports the extreme violent actions, then it paints a different picture.

 

[Madplayer]

The difference is everyone condemns that incident, they don't say 'He was asking for it' .. like numerous posters on here.

If everyone condemned it then it means everyone thinks it is wrong which implies that no one would do it in the first place which proves your statement is wrong.

And most muslims have condemned the beheading too but at the same time we are not going to make light weight of the insults being hurled at us by the French president.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

This is a touchy subject but IMO, the reactions by many Muslims against the drawing of cartoons is perhaps not 100% Islamic as per the guidance of our faith.

We have a few examples from the life of our prophet (saw).
He (saw) is is prostration and they put camel guts on him (saw).
What did he say to his companions? "Go kill them because they insulted me"? NO!

The angel at Taif asks him (saw) to just order and he will smash two mountains and turn the people of Taif into dust.
What does the prophet (saw) say?
"Go ahead, do it"? NO!

There is a message of practicing patience here.

Yes, when there is a state of war and combat or when you or your family are in danger of being physically attacked or hurt then it's a different story. You must get up to defend yourself, your loved ones, your country, and your nation.
But in general, the Islamic guidance recommends patience (sabar). "Wata waso bil Haq-e-wata waso Bis-Sabr.

When such cartoons are drawn, then IMO, Muslims should have absolutely no public reaction. And you will notice how quickly this drawing of cartoon practice dies and becomes history and is dismissed under the notion of "old fashion and boring" - BUT INSTEAD - many among us start acting like that monkey who dances on the drum beats at a sidewalk show.
Issuing sentimental statements, riots and burning tires and property of others. This is insanity.

And guess what? THIS is EXACTLY what they want you to do. It gives them pleasure as it feeds the troll.
The more you react, the more they will draw the cartoons.

One of the ways, is to pray two naffal and ask Dua to Allah to take care of the culprits who draw these cartoons and issue such statements, and grant you Sabar. And also send your durood n salaam to our beloved prophet (saw).
And surely you can start boycotting the French products QUITELY!
It's a freaking shame to blabber like a loud mouth piece and announce boycott of French products, but within a month or two, shamelessly start resuming it.

Remember, Allah has PERSONALLY taken the responsibility to raise his (saw) name ... WARAFANA LAKA ZIKRAK.

After this verse, we really don't have to worry about it. Our main focus should be to try to live a life of honesty (diyanaaut daari ki zindagi) under the light of Sunnah, practice patience, be generous and be forgiving wherever possible.


On another note, and this may not sit very well with a few readers but honestly, many Muslim countries are among the top corrupt nations in the world. And it kinda sounds like hypocrisy when we act blood thirsty to take the life of anyone who draws the cartoon but we represent a country and a soceity where haram khori, rishwat khori, zulm, injustice and child abuse is rampant. Where streets are filth and the whole country looks like one giant trash pile - WHILE the prophet (saw) says, "Cleanliness is half of emaan".
It's very ironic!

Following Sunnah is not just limited to growing a beard and let a miswaak stick out of your pocket and lifting up your shalwaar to expose your ankles.

Following Sunnah should start with living a life of honesty (Diyanut daari ki zindagi) in our day to day matters and in dealing with others, following Sunnah is also practicing patience, being generous, being forgiving, having good verbal manners (Achay Akhlaaq), not wasting resources and practicing cleanliness.

IMO, this short talk by Nauman Ali Khan should be something that every Muslim should listen at once in their life times.

 

[Madplayer]

Because a localized incident doesn't necessarily represent development an ideology spread across the system.

But when you have a global issue where the entities claim to follow some ideology, and a share of common people supports the extreme violent actions, then it paints a different picture.

The incidents of hindutva are localized because India is the only relevant country of hindus and India is pretty much irrelevant on the global map in terms of geopolitics while muslims have over 50 countries to their name where they are in majority and many more where they are in large minorities. Most of these countries have major stakes in geopolitics. Some of these countries are in turmoil because of direct military intervention of western countries. An extremist Syrian will have a different motivation to carry out an attack than a Pakistani extremist even though the baseline which stays with all of them is that of an evil west trying to disrupt their way of life in their own countries as well as in countries where they seek refuge.

 

[Itachi]

The incidents of hindutva are localized because India is the only relevant country of hindus and India is pretty much irrelevant on the global map in terms of geopolitics while muslims have over 50 countries to their name where they are in majority and many more where they are in large minorities. Most of these countries have major stakes in geopolitics. Some of these countries are in turmoil because of direct military intervention of western countries. An extremist Syrian will have a different motivation to carry out an attack than a Pakistani extremist even though the baseline which stays with all of them is that of an evil west trying to disrupt their way of life in their own countries as well as in countries where they seek refuge.

I say localized in case of india for a different reason. Though Muslims are minority in India, it is the 3rd biggest Muslim population across the world. That's not a small number. If religious intolerance was systemic, then India would have been under civil war all the time. But except a few cases from a few particular states, rest is living in peace and harmony which makes the whole case as localized and not systemic.

Rest of your post I have addressed in one of my previous post and also directed a question.

Among the religions, is it easier to use Islam as a weapon to brainwash common people by misinterpreting religious quotes thus fuelling them to fulfill their different agendas by different extremist group who "claims" to follow Islamic ideology?

Otherwise, Christians should have had the same issue.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Projecting hateful cartoons on buildings was pretty pathetic from the French.

France needs to understand this isnt the 1700's where they could go pillaging and raping brown/black people around the world. In a global world its imperitive to spread peace not hate.

Its hard to find sympathy for a such dark/hateful goverment and much of the nation.

 

[Vegitto1]

There's a difference between getting upset and introducing terrorism/beheading people over religion worldwide.

Former is normal human reaction while latter isn't.

It’s clever how you put “worldwide” in there knowing that Hindus actively lynch people of other religion if religious sentiments are offended.

The reason things did not escalate is because upon Hindus expressing their discontent, the fashion label decided to pull the clothing item.

Muslims on the other hand were told to shut up and put up with it.

The world treated two religions differently in terms of respect is concerned and hence two different reactions.

If you want I can give you many examples where religious warnings were not heeded to with serious consequences