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Every Pakistan win is not a fluke

Mamoon

Mamoon

ATG
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
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I usually don't like to create threads, but I have been forced to do so because I would like to touch on a few things and I can't find an appropriate thread.

It appears that every time Pakistan is going to win, people are going to line up like sheep and call it a fluke in order to score some cheap points and to have a go at me.

The clever ones, in order to provide some comic relief, are going to come up with gifs to make people laugh, showcasing their originality because it is something that has not been done before.

Every Pakistan win is not fluke. I have been on this forum for 6 years and I have over 70k posts. Please find a list of my posts where I have labeled Pakistan wins as fluke.

"Fluke" has been buzzword on PakPassion over the last year because I used it to describe Pakistan's Champions Trophy triumph, and I do not regret it. I am still adamant that it was a fluke, because I do not recall the last time things fell in place for a team to win the way it did for Pakistan over the course of those 4 games. Every single thing that could have gone right for Pakistan did.

That word seemed to have blasted a few nerves, and I do not know why or how, but it seemed to have caught up with Shoaib Akhtar and Younis Khan as well.

The matches that Pakistan have won over the course of its history have not been flukes, and this win at Lord's was not a fluke either. Pakistan simply played better cricket than England whoever extremely poor in all departments.

Now the snowflakes have a problem with calling the English performance as poor, because apparently it is an attempt to take credit away from Pakistan. No it is not.

England have some world class players, and obviously if they play to their potential, Pakistan would not romp to a 9 wicket win in 4 days, but that is how most cricket matches won - one team is better than the other on the day, so it is not an attempt to discredit the fact that Pakistan thoroughly outplayed England over the 4 days.

Moreover, people simply want everyone to stand in line and claim that everything is nice and dandy and every win is supposedly the start of a new golden era.

In my time on PakPassion, I have seen at least ten different instances that were supposedly the start of a new golden era, only for it to go up in ashes. The same people were tripping over each other to explain why the Champions Trophy winning golden Pakistan team got battered in New Zealand, and the same folks would have come up with the "it is a fluke" posts and stupid gifs to mock me had we won the New Zealand series.

I am sure they had their posts and gifs ready and were itching to post them, but unfortunately, the champions did not give them the opportunity.

Pakistani fans are the only group of fans where every important win has to be the start of a new golden era, because apparently, you cannot win matches in isolation.

The irony is that isolated victories is all that Pakistan has achieved in its history - we have never had prolonged periods of dominance because we have never been able to build up on our wins, and everything blows up soon after things look great.

We were supposed to be the best ODI team in the world after the Champions Trophy, and apparently only England in England and Australia in Australia could compete with us, and I can quote posts of the people who have spent the last four days having a go at me, but I would let it go because I don't think they deserve that humiliation at this time.

This inconsistency of Pakistan cricket has been repackaged and rebranded as "unpredictability" and "mercuriality", as if it is something to be proud of. No, it is nothing to be proud of. Only in Pakistan is inconsistency considered positive.

I do not mind people calling me a troll and an attention-seeker; people can say what they want, they are free to do so, but trolls do not explain their viewpoints and I am always prepared to argue my points. Whether people agree or not is not my problem, since it is not in my control.

The only thing that I can control is to explain my views. I don't have a problem with people insulting me or taking shots at me; the only problem I have when people misquote me, put words in my mouth, and take my comments out of context.

Moreover, I also have an issue with people thinking that I win when Pakistan loses, and vice versa.

Just because I think that Pakistan is a mediocre team does not mean that I don't want Pakistan to win. I have followed the game decades before I joined PakPassion, and I will follow the game decades after I leave, and I have spent more time in Pakistan than some of the expats who label me an Indian, just because I don't wear green-tinted glasses and think that India is a far better team.

We don't love the game because we post on this forum; we post on this forum because we love the game. None of us will post here forever, and we will all move on with our lives.

If Pakistan assemble a team that I think can become the best in the world, I will be the first one to admit. However, it has not happened yet, but I would love for it to happen. My so-called "character" of being a pessimist means absolutely nothing to me.

I am sorry for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. I am not upset, but I am tired for getting criticized for presenting my opinions, because it prevents me from criticizing, appreciating and supporting in proper spirit.

Furthermore, it doesn't allow me celebrate because apparently I am gutted that Pakistan have won, just because I back Pakistan to lose more often than not.

The only thing I have seen over the last few days is people queuing up to call this win a fluke because apparently that is what I think. I have tried to play along a couple of times because that is what people want to hear from me apparently, for e.g. the Pakistan wins in Ramzaan thread etc., but every Pakistan win is not a fluke, and I have the right to celebrate wins as much as anyone else.

I am not sure if this thread is appropriate or not but I have been left with little choice because of the actions of a group of people.

Considering the obsession of some people, it appears that my views give them nightmares, yet I am the one blamed for "seeking attention".
 
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Why is the CT a fluke and this England test series victory/draw not a fluke? :facepalm:

Everything that could have gone right for Pakistan did go right in this series as well etc etc
 
It’s the indians who call this a fluke.
They say:
“Oh England was a really weak team”
“They threw all of their wickets away”
“The conditions weren’t very English”
“Their batting collapsed unluckily”
“Root isn’t a good captain”
“They dropped the catch”
“They were tired of playing”
 
Pakistan won the CT because they deserved to win.

They outplayed everyone put in front of them barring the first match against India.

There is no way you can say 4 must win games in a row is a fluke.
 
I do not mind people calling me a troll and an attention-seeker; people can say what they want
Click to expand...

Seems like you do since you made a whole thread about it. I am just sad that you could have used your powers for good instead of this incessant whining.
 
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Chill out Mamoon. We are all humans and are bound to make mistakes. Just like how sometimes you have misjudged how Pakistan is going to perform and how others have misjudged/misquoted your views. A true man is someones who learns from or admits his mistake. No need to justify, because even the Atheists can justify as to why they dont believe in God or the Trump supporters can justify that Trump is the best thing ever happened to America.
 
Rarely post, but felt like I'd chip in to say that although I do think you tend to be a tad over critical of the Pak cricket team, I have always found your posts interesting in that they provide an alternative viewpoint, one probably not expressed as much. So kudos to you for that, don't think anyone would argue that you don't add a lot to the forum.

I'd try to ride out the jokes (as I'm sure you plan to). I'm sure the majority are in good spirit, but it goes without saying that there is no excuse for people getting personal or questioning your support etc...
 
Damn! U have a lot of time on your hand to make such a long post justifying yourself on an Internet forum.

I didn’t read your post, however here is my view of you formed on the basis of your posts on a wide ranging topics.

You are an intelligent guy no doubt however u like to play the devil’s advocate for arguments sake. You always take a polar opposite view from the majority just to get under peoples skin. And it works most of the time.

You remind me of a guy named Amits, the only difference is he was super-pro Indian on everything (even Indians found him funny) and you are anti-Pakistan on everything.
 
I might be the only guy here but I find your posts pretty insightful. Because instead of bashing you do explain why you feel a certain way about things. You might sound pessimistic here and there but in a way we get a realistic or a neutral opinion about Pakistan cricket.

Even if I do not agree with you it's interesting to see things from a different point of view and that is why this cricket forum is unique on the web.
 
Why did you need to get this “off your chest” on today all of days when such an emphatic victory was imposed ?

Sorry to say but you bring this on yourself with your consistent controversial negative views on the team.

And I still do not understand your “fluke theory” regarding the champions trophy win. Even the vast majority of Indian fans know that Pakistan deserved to win it but you still think it was a fluke ?

Then you make bold predictions that this team is useless and hopeless but when the team produces results and performances that prove you totally wrong then What do you expect from fans ??

Some will throw a ton of bricks back at you and you should learn to take it like a man and hold up your hands to say you were proven totally wrong rather than making a bigger issue then it is with this defensive thread.
 
Flukes are judged according to future results so can’t really say at the minute

For example Sri Lanka 96 wasn’t a fluke
Greece 2004 was a fluke

France 98 wasn’t a fluke
But Denmark 92 was a fluke


Etc etc
 
Asch Ali said:
It’s the indians who call this a fluke.
They say:
“Oh England was a really weak team”
“They threw all of their wickets away”
“The conditions weren’t very English”
“Their batting collapsed unluckily”
“Root isn’t a good captain”
“They dropped the catch”
“They were tired of playing”
Click to expand...

England were outplayed right, left and center. I seriously doubt whether India can do the same to England when we tour.
 
DeadBall said:
Seems like you do since you made a whole thread about it. I am just sad that you could have used your powers for good instead of this incessant whining.
Click to expand...

:)))

Bhai this is such a burn!
 
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Couple of points from what you’ve posted.

What I think you don’t understand is by calling it a fluke you are insulting everyone that supports Pakistan. Upset might be more appropriate, like 1992 was or do you think that was a fluke aswell?

Some of the stuff you write is really good but the critique is often exaggerated. You’re love for India I will never understand, it’s like a Scouse appreciating Manchester United. It’ll never happen and if it did he’d probably get violated.

Period of dominance, bar Australia and the Windies no one else has.

Fair play for defending yourself, shame you had to thou as you are entitled speak freely but maybe next time try to be careful with the wording.
 
Hitman said:
England were outplayed right, left and center. I seriously doubt whether India can do the same to England when we tour.
Click to expand...

England now are there for the taking but depends how well India prepare for the tour - I.e.
Going early and playing as many practise matches as possible.
 
The problem isn't your opinion. It is that you post these as indisputable "facts" from your pedestal up high. Your goal isn't to have a spirited discussion, but to try to display your own intelligence to satisfy your ego. By playing devil's advocate constantly, it is tiring for others, and honestly must be tiring for you. When you say things that are patently false, such as "The irony is that isolated victories is all that Pakistan has achieved in its history", your credibility and motivations are called into question.

You are undoubtedly a smart guy. But your insatiable need to be contrarian will tire you out on this forum, as well as in real life.
 
This thread is even worse than the attention-seeking you are constantly up to. What a joke. You have been correctly called out for some ridiculous doomsday predictions, which are basically a way to wind up the majority on this forum. What next, we'll have the Indian bacha party creating a thread justifying the rubbish they post? :))

You should in-fact thank the new wave of these Indian keyboard warriors for taking the heat off you in recent times.
 
Micky Arthur has been trying to bring consistency to the Pak team since day 1, making their good and bad days not so far apart.

Now that the deadwood is slowly being removed and the new younger batch keen to learn and adapt rather than being set in their (perhaps lazy) ways, maybe just maybe we can put the mercurial/inconstant/Which Pak will turn up today references to bed and have a team which is both talented and has the consistency to be at the top of the tree. Only time will tell.
 
This win is good but overall England were underprepared declining on a losing run they were there for the taking and ran into a better prepared away team firing on all cylinders.
The 2nd test won't be as straight forward now is the real test a great team can win the series from here while an average team will lose the second test and settle for minor honours.
 
On_the_up said:
Micky Arthur has been trying to bring consistency to the Pak team since day 1, making their good and bad days not so far apart.

Now that the deadwood is slowly being removed and the new younger batch keen to learn and adapt rather than being set in their (perhaps lazy) ways, maybe just maybe we can put the mercurial/inconstant/Which Pak will turn up today references to bed and have a team which is both talented and has the consistency to be at the top of the tree. Only time will tell.
Click to expand...

Personally I like the role we play in international cricket. We are the most fun to watch and that’s down to being mercurial. I don’t think I’d enjoy us as much if we were blowing teams away all the time. Every game, even against lesser opposition we make interesting. Yet on our day we can blow away the best.
 
Good post.

You're neutral and criticize/praise only where it's due. So, people also hate on you, because you touch their nerves often when they hear something they don't want/like to hear, even though it's a fact.
 
Ik92yk09sa17 said:
Personally I like the role we play in international cricket. We are the most fun to watch and that’s down to being mercurial. I don’t think I’d enjoy us as much if we were blowing teams away all the time. Every game, even against lesser opposition we make interesting. Yet on our day we can blow away the best.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I'll learn to enjoy it too IF that were to happen. LOL
 
Most of the time i disagree with your posts but that doesn't mean i will attack you for having a different opinion. It can be refreshing to have a fellow Pakistani cricket fan who see things from a different perspective. Some posters do go overboard with the whole fluke thing, but i'd like to think their intentions are only to prove you wrong. Anyways we're all cricket fans, we should learn to respect others opinion.
 
I mean there was always going to be abuses because we are very emotional and patriotic people, if we dont see someone with the same views we lash out on them most of the time. A lot of people can't stand praise for India, especially coming from a Pakistani, what more did you expect?

Advice would be not to concern yourself with these fools, let them be deluded, keep posting insightful stuff like you always do.
 
Cry me a river, will you!

Your facade is to say the exact opposite of what the majority is saying, and I get it that you do it for reactions and good for you if it works, but it gets annoying and very offensive to be honest when you say things like the CT win was a fluke. This is one of the few instances where you go overboard and honestly need to keep your mouth shut because all you will get in return is memes and ribbing everytime Pakistan wins.

From a decades old fan to another, let the message board '' character'' go and enjoy wins every now and then, it will prolong your life I assure you!
 
I trolled you for the first time today. I agree with your views sometimes. But with your constant whinning that Pakistan’s team is hopeless and dead and what not - this is what irritates most of us. You lick India to death - even more than Wasim Akram.

Stay neutral and happy-go guy. Arthur-Sarfraz combo has really made a difference and things can only go up with the inclusion of fresh faces.
 
You guys take the internet way more seriously than you're supposed to :facepalm:

Jeez man!!
 
Test matches are more difficult to fluke. Actually almost impossible to fluke which is the reason we do not see too many upsets in this format. You need to compete over 5 days and in two innings to win a test match.In a 50 over or a 20 over game even lesser sides can put pressure when they pick up couple of wickets as the run rate comes into play but Tests aren't like that. Pakistan played well over the 4 days and England did not. That is the reason for their victory. Anyone comparing a win in ODI to tests does not know what they are talking about.
 
I like how Mamoon has changed his line of argument from winning the final against India was a fluke to winning 4 games was a fluke. Brilliant. You will say anything to defend yourself. I have seen a lot of online egos but yours is probably the worst.

People make fun of you not just because you called CT victory a fluke but it was more of a boiling point to your constant hatred of Pakistani team. You have always predicted the Pakistani team to fail. No matter if its the 2016 test series against England, the CT or the current English test series; your prediction has been always negative towards Pakistan.

You claim other teams such as your adopted teams England and India are superior with no or poor supporting arguments. You claim Pakistan deserves 2 match series because they are 7th ranked but forget that your second adopted team India was ranked 7th in 2015. You call Pakistan as a team in decline but forget that SA, NZ, England havent won a single WC so far.

You have become a meme, my friend. Nothing but a meme to use when in need to have some entertainment.
 
I'm shocked to see so many posters reacting to this thread. I like Mamoon, the poster because sometimes his posts are very solid but I take all of his ridiculous predictions and assessments with a grain of salt. Don't get offended. He's just another poster who has no authority on anything and it doesn't matter if he considers Pakistan below associate members. If you don't like his posts, just ignore and move on.
 
Pakistan confuses you as a fan of the sport. I read one post a few days back on the lines of - Pakistan changes the level of its game as per the opposition. You give this same Pakistani team a game against PNG or Hong Kong and it might end up going to the last session. Pakistan very recently lost to a miserable Sri Lanka, a test at home to West Indies.

Pakistan is the same team which was struggling to qualify for the CT but ended up winning it. In between a Shahzad and Rahat, you see a Hasan and Abbas every now and then. Sheer ineptness a day and sheer quality the next day.

But now the surprises that Pakistan throws don’t surprise me any more as a neutral. Not sure what the fans go through though - constant heart attacks I guess.
 
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A few of the surprises Pakistan has thrown at us recently:
1) Misbah/Azhar’s comeback as captain
2) Shoaib Malik’s test double century and subsequent retirement
3) YK’s double century in England after he was ridiculed by all
4) 15/6 against NZ....in 15 overs!
5) Winning the CT
6) Dismissing Australia for 120 in Sydney
7) Subsequently losing the Sydney test
8) Test losses against Zimbabwe, WI and series loss against SL
9) Mohammad Abbas - seriously who is he? People were complaining about his lack of pace till a few days back
10) That Asad Shafiq chase (almost) in Australia where he made Starc look toothless
11) Losing 3-0 to Bangladesh - and lost each game by big margin
12) 100th comeback of Ahmad Shahzad (cant rule out 101st either)
13) Winning ODI series in SA after what happened in the tests (49 all out)
14) Getting to the bottom of the ranking tables (Tests and ODIs)
15) Sharjeel Khan - his entry, his exit

There are more. Eg. An unfit captain leading you to success. These are not flukes, this is the nature of the team.
 
Mamoon said:
I usually don't like to create threads, but I have been forced to do so because I would like to touch on a few things and I can't find an appropriate thread.

It appears that every time Pakistan is going to win, people are going to line up like sheep and call it a fluke in order to score some cheap points and to have a go at me.

The clever ones, in order to provide some comic relief, are going to come up with gifs to make people laugh, showcasing their originality because it is something that has not been done before.

Every Pakistan win is not fluke. I have been on this forum for 6 years and I have over 70k posts. Please find a list of my posts where I have labeled Pakistan wins as fluke.

"Fluke" has been buzzword on PakPassion over the last year because I used it to describe Pakistan's Champions Trophy triumph, and I do not regret it. I am still adamant that it was a fluke, because I do not recall the last time things fell in place for a team to win the way it did for Pakistan over the course of those 4 games. Every single thing that could have gone right for Pakistan did.

That word seemed to have blasted a few nerves, and I do not know why or how, but it seemed to have caught up with Shoaib Akhtar and Younis Khan as well.

The matches that Pakistan have won over the course of its history have not been flukes, and this win at Lord's was not a fluke either. Pakistan simply played better cricket than England whoever extremely poor in all departments.

Now the snowflakes have a problem with calling the English performance as poor, because apparently it is an attempt to take credit away from Pakistan. No it is not.

England have some world class players, and obviously if they play to their potential, Pakistan would not romp to a 9 wicket win in 4 days, but that is how most cricket matches won - one team is better than the other on the day, so it is not an attempt to discredit the fact that Pakistan thoroughly outplayed England over the 4 days.

Moreover, people simply want everyone to stand in line and claim that everything is nice and dandy and every win is supposedly the start of a new golden era.

In my time on PakPassion, I have seen at least ten different instances that were supposedly the start of a new golden era, only for it to go up in ashes. The same people were tripping over each other to explain why the Champions Trophy winning golden Pakistan team got battered in New Zealand, and the same folks would have come up with the "it is a fluke" posts and stupid gifs to mock me had we won the New Zealand series.

I am sure they had their posts and gifs ready and were itching to post them, but unfortunately, the champions did not give them the opportunity.

Pakistani fans are the only group of fans where every important win has to be the start of a new golden era, because apparently, you cannot win matches in isolation.

The irony is that isolated victories is all that Pakistan has achieved in its history - we have never had prolonged periods of dominance because we have never been able to build up on our wins, and everything blows up soon after things look great.

We were supposed to be the best ODI team in the world after the Champions Trophy, and apparently only England in England and Australia in Australia could compete with us, and I can quote posts of the people who have spent the last four days having a go at me, but I would let it go because I don't think they deserve that humiliation at this time.

This inconsistency of Pakistan cricket has been repackaged and rebranded as "unpredictability" and "mercuriality", as if it is something to be proud of. No, it is nothing to be proud of. Only in Pakistan is inconsistency considered positive.

I do not mind people calling me a troll and an attention-seeker; people can say what they want, they are free to do so, but trolls do not explain their viewpoints and I am always prepared to argue my points. Whether people agree or not is not my problem, since it is not in my control.

The only thing that I can control is to explain my views. I don't have a problem with people insulting me or taking shots at me; the only problem I have when people misquote me, put words in my mouth, and take my comments out of context.

Moreover, I also have an issue with people thinking that I win when Pakistan loses, and vice versa.

Just because I think that Pakistan is a mediocre team does not mean that I don't want Pakistan to win. I have followed the game decades before I joined PakPassion, and I will follow the game decades after I leave, and I have spent more time in Pakistan than some of the expats who label me an Indian, just because I don't wear green-tinted glasses and think that India is a far better team.

We don't love the game because we post on this forum; we post on this forum because we love the game. None of us will post here forever, and we will all move on with our lives.

If Pakistan assemble a team that I think can become the best in the world, I will be the first one to admit. However, it has not happened yet, but I would love for it to happen. My so-called "character" of being a pessimist means absolutely nothing to me.

I am sorry for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. I am not upset, but I am tired for getting criticized for presenting my opinions, because it prevents me from criticizing, appreciating and supporting in proper spirit.

Furthermore, it doesn't allow me celebrate because apparently I am gutted that Pakistan have won, just because I back Pakistan to lose more often than not.

The only thing I have seen over the last few days is people queuing up to call this win a fluke because apparently that is what I think. I have tried to play along a couple of times because that is what people want to hear from me apparently, for e.g. the Pakistan wins in Ramzaan thread etc., but every Pakistan win is not a fluke, and I have the right to celebrate wins as much as anyone else.

I am not sure if this thread is appropriate or not but I have been left with little choice because of the actions of a group of people.

Considering the obsession of some people, it appears that my views give them nightmares, yet I am the one blamed for "seeking attention".
Click to expand...

Brilliant post fromifc the master! :)) I knew you had to post, the timing is just too good for you to pass up. Pakistan has just comprehensively won, team looks promising, it's ripe for the taking - what better time to indirectly needle snowflake fans with the fluke thing.
 
Mamoon said:
I usually don't like to create threads, but I have been forced to do so because I would like to touch on a few things and I can't find an appropriate thread.

It appears that every time Pakistan is going to win, people are going to line up like sheep and call it a fluke in order to score some cheap points and to have a go at me.

The clever ones, in order to provide some comic relief, are going to come up with gifs to make people laugh, showcasing their originality because it is something that has not been done before.

Every Pakistan win is not fluke. I have been on this forum for 6 years and I have over 70k posts. Please find a list of my posts where I have labeled Pakistan wins as fluke.

"Fluke" has been buzzword on PakPassion over the last year because I used it to describe Pakistan's Champions Trophy triumph, and I do not regret it. I am still adamant that it was a fluke, because I do not recall the last time things fell in place for a team to win the way it did for Pakistan over the course of those 4 games. Every single thing that could have gone right for Pakistan did.

That word seemed to have blasted a few nerves, and I do not know why or how, but it seemed to have caught up with Shoaib Akhtar and Younis Khan as well.

The matches that Pakistan have won over the course of its history have not been flukes, and this win at Lord's was not a fluke either. Pakistan simply played better cricket than England whoever extremely poor in all departments.

Now the snowflakes have a problem with calling the English performance as poor, because apparently it is an attempt to take credit away from Pakistan. No it is not.

England have some world class players, and obviously if they play to their potential, Pakistan would not romp to a 9 wicket win in 4 days, but that is how most cricket matches won - one team is better than the other on the day, so it is not an attempt to discredit the fact that Pakistan thoroughly outplayed England over the 4 days.

Moreover, people simply want everyone to stand in line and claim that everything is nice and dandy and every win is supposedly the start of a new golden era.

In my time on PakPassion, I have seen at least ten different instances that were supposedly the start of a new golden era, only for it to go up in ashes. The same people were tripping over each other to explain why the Champions Trophy winning golden Pakistan team got battered in New Zealand, and the same folks would have come up with the "it is a fluke" posts and stupid gifs to mock me had we won the New Zealand series.

I am sure they had their posts and gifs ready and were itching to post them, but unfortunately, the champions did not give them the opportunity.

Pakistani fans are the only group of fans where every important win has to be the start of a new golden era, because apparently, you cannot win matches in isolation.

The irony is that isolated victories is all that Pakistan has achieved in its history - we have never had prolonged periods of dominance because we have never been able to build up on our wins, and everything blows up soon after things look great.

We were supposed to be the best ODI team in the world after the Champions Trophy, and apparently only England in England and Australia in Australia could compete with us, and I can quote posts of the people who have spent the last four days having a go at me, but I would let it go because I don't think they deserve that humiliation at this time.

This inconsistency of Pakistan cricket has been repackaged and rebranded as "unpredictability" and "mercuriality", as if it is something to be proud of. No, it is nothing to be proud of. Only in Pakistan is inconsistency considered positive.

I do not mind people calling me a troll and an attention-seeker; people can say what they want, they are free to do so, but trolls do not explain their viewpoints and I am always prepared to argue my points. Whether people agree or not is not my problem, since it is not in my control.

The only thing that I can control is to explain my views. I don't have a problem with people insulting me or taking shots at me; the only problem I have when people misquote me, put words in my mouth, and take my comments out of context.

Moreover, I also have an issue with people thinking that I win when Pakistan loses, and vice versa.

Just because I think that Pakistan is a mediocre team does not mean that I don't want Pakistan to win. I have followed the game decades before I joined PakPassion, and I will follow the game decades after I leave, and I have spent more time in Pakistan than some of the expats who label me an Indian, just because I don't wear green-tinted glasses and think that India is a far better team.

We don't love the game because we post on this forum; we post on this forum because we love the game. None of us will post here forever, and we will all move on with our lives.

If Pakistan assemble a team that I think can become the best in the world, I will be the first one to admit. However, it has not happened yet, but I would love for it to happen. My so-called "character" of being a pessimist means absolutely nothing to me.

I am sorry for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. I am not upset, but I am tired for getting criticized for presenting my opinions, because it prevents me from criticizing, appreciating and supporting in proper spirit.

Furthermore, it doesn't allow me celebrate because apparently I am gutted that Pakistan have won, just because I back Pakistan to lose more often than not.

The only thing I have seen over the last few days is people queuing up to call this win a fluke because apparently that is what I think. I have tried to play along a couple of times because that is what people want to hear from me apparently, for e.g. the Pakistan wins in Ramzaan thread etc., but every Pakistan win is not a fluke, and I have the right to celebrate wins as much as anyone else.

I am not sure if this thread is appropriate or not but I have been left with little choice because of the actions of a group of people.

Considering the obsession of some people, it appears that my views give them nightmares, yet I am the one blamed for "seeking attention".
Click to expand...

I don't agree with some of your views like "CT fluke" but agree with last line.

People are acting as if you were the only one who wrongly predicted about Pakistan vs England result.(just check 2-0 formality thread).What's ironic is those who predicted Eng win are making fun of you for wrongly predicting.
 
Mamoon sub ko mamoon banara hain - Yeh kya hua, Kaise hua, Kab(u) hua

ab kya sunaye!

Yeh kya hua, Kaise hua, Kab(u) hua
Kyon hua, Jab(u) hua, Tab(u) hua
Oh chodo, yeh na socho
Hmmm!!

Yeh kya hua, Kaise hua, Kab(u) hua
Kyon hua, Jab(u) hua, Tab(u) hua
Oh chodo, yeh na socho
Hmmm!! Yeh Kya Hua

Hum kyon! Shikhwaa kare jhootha
Kya hua jo dil toota
Hum kyon! Shikhwaa kare jhootha
Kya hua jo dil toota
sheeshe ka khilauna tha
Kuchh naa kuchh to honaa tha, Hua

Yeh kya hua, Kaise hua, Kab(u) hua
Kyon hua, Jab(u) hua, Tab(u) hua
Oh chodo, yeh na socho
Hmmm!! Yeh Kya Hua

samjhena!!

Humne jo! Dekha tha, sunaatha
Kya bataye wo kya tha
Humne jo! Dekha tha, sunaatha
Kya bataye wo kya tha
Sap(a)na salon aatha
Khatam to hona tha, Hua

Yeh kya hua, Kaise hua, Kab(u) hua
Kyon hua, Jab(u) hua, Tab(u) hua
Oh chodo, yeh na socho
Hmmm!! Yeh Kya Hua

Aye dil! Chal pikar jhoome
Inhee galiyon mein ghoome
Aye dil! Chal pikar jhoome
Inhee galiyon mein ghoome
Yahan tujhe khon aatha
Badanaam hona tha, Hua..

Yeh kya hua, Kaise hua, Kab(u) hua
Kyon hua, Jab(u) hua, Tab(u) hua
Oh chodo, yeh na socho
Hmmm!! Yeh Kya Hua - Perfect song for This post
 
Lol I was surprised to see you start this thread.

Champions Trophy we had some luck on our side especially in the game against Srilanka where Sarfraz was extremely lucky and the no-ball by Bumrah but generally I think Pakistan post defeat to India were solid.

In the test against England, I would say highly professional performance. This is the culture a qualified coach can bring.
 
Top post from a top poster. I don't agree that CT was a fluke since Pakistan won essentially 4 knockouts on the trot and you can't fluke that. However, having said that some posters do go overboard while calling their bowling attack ' the most relentless in the world' etc. etc. Pakistan seem to have very sharp highs followed by dismal lows and and have not played consistently good cricket. I remember posters mocking NZ for being Pakistan's punching bag despite the fact that in the last 15 years, New Zealand have a better record in ODI head to head. In tests too, when SL toured UAE, there were posters not giving SL a chance before ending up getting whitewashed in the tests. Even in this test, Pakistan played very good cricket to win the test no problem giving credit where it's due. But already some are bragging that India can never come close on their tour. Such posters need to tone it down a bit. If a mathews-less SL beat Pakistan in the UAE, nobody in their right mind would have given Pakistan a chance in this series just like nobody gave Pakistan a chance to win CT since they were barely qualifying for it. The fact that Pakistan won inspire of that is not proud that this is a very good team in either format for now. Maybe win 3-4 series in a row and nobody would question their ability.
 
Is this like when people call a press conference in Pakistan to deny what is clearly visible to everyone else?
 
Good post from a very balanced poster. His only problem is being balanced seems to irk and needle the patriotic desis who cannot tolerate his opinions and have nothing else other than to call him an Indian troll for it. I do feel he is a little pessimistic at times - or realistic, if the shoe fits - but one cannot say that he does not say what he feels or does not argue his corner when he inevitably does get pulled up on it and Id do enjoy reading his posts. I don't see what the issue is if he says the CT win was a fluke, it's his opinion and it is something I feel as well but what's wrong with it? Pakistan have blown hot and cold and the one series against England away that they drew is the most impressive they've had in that time while in LOIs until Misbah retired they were perhaps more comparable to SL and WI rather than any of the top sides before the CT win. Even after that they haven't look like this all conquering LOI unit that the win would seem to indicate that they should be, so what? Knock out competitions are all about having the chips fall in your favor and turning up on the day and they did almost get knocked out of the tournament so the ones who call it fortuitous can be forgiven for thinking just that. the same appears to happen for his views on politics where he is quite entitled for holding his views even if they are unpopular on this board.
 
If you are gonna be a polemist own and and subsequent flak you get from, even if it gets to level that it’s no longer enjoyable for you.

I haven’t been on as much as I once was but just because your posts have an element of truth doesn’t mean that the primary aim isn’t to get under people’s skin.

Regarding the CT “fluke” win, it’s not like you right lengthy posts critically justifying that each time you mention it. Rather you throw it in on random threads as bait.

I find this whole situation just amusing
 
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You and I have had an intense back and forth in the past about the nature of Pakistan's win against India in the CT final and whether it was a fluke or not, so I won't go into the details of that, but I would say this.

Rather than playing the victim and saying that the "actions of a group of people" has "left (you) with little choice" to make this thread, I suggest do some pondering over the negativity you spread on these forums and how you try to drag the Pakistani Cricket team and the players that comprise it through the dirt. Having an opinion is one thing, but if you unjustifiably criticize a player or a group of players time and time again without keeping an open mind, then don't expect it to go down well with other followers of the sport. This is the internet, and everything you say and do can and will be used against you. The only way to stop it from bothering you is to grow thick skin. That's all any of us can do.
 
I'll give you corporate perspective since you opened the door :)

Very few people are blessed with the ability to see patterns and designs in things. Even fewer can back it up with data. These people have the power to bring powerful perspectives and change the entire direction of the ship - sometimes even when they are not at the wheel. They could be wrong sometimes but their batting average is far superior to most others.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], following as I have been for a long time your posts and analyses, you may be one of these people. No wonder you are most people's favorite posters - whenever Pakpassion does interviews. Let's call these kinds of people "seers."

These seers can be divided into two categories - Painters and Builders.

Painters paint reality unambiguously. They see things and call those out - taking no prisoners. The truth is out there, the stats back it and it needs to be shared. No occasion is big enough or wrong enough to call the truth out. They firmly believe it will help people see things for what they are, and not what they appear to be. These kinds of seers are sometimes very important when the entire ship is about the hit the titanic and the band is still playing.

Trouble hits when painters become too omnipresent. When they paint reality when it does not advance any cause - such as when the team has posted even a small win (I am not talking about a big win) - let's say in cricket a crucial wicket or the correct call on the toss. Then the painters step over into the critics category. Not only their team thinks they are 'not one of us' but also, they themselves become so invested in their own perspectives that it becomes difficult for them to celebrate the small victories - let alone big one's.

Builders also paint reality. However, they do it differently. They criticize when it is constructive and advances the team's cause. Otherwise, they are one of the team, celebrating the small and big wins together. Over time, they develop a voice and a perspective which is just as good as that of the painters - but it is heard and respected much more because they are one with the cause.

One more thing in the builders is that they never lose hope in the cause - no matter how impossible. I'll give an example. After the Sri Lankan bus attack and the 2010 match fixing, it was all darkness for Pakistan. Very few would bet on team achieving anything of note (or even playing) for years. Yet, there are people like Misbah and Najam Sethi (I was so wrong about him!), who read the situation right, yet found a way of giving hope. No situation in the world is ever completely hopeless and builders know that. Sports teams, nations, people transform all the time - look at Dubai or Singapore as countries or in cricket - Afghanistan.

I thought you were a builder for years - only in the last couple of years, you may be in danger of getting into the painters territory.

However, you are too good to stay there for long. Continue doing what you do best - give your alternative perspective - but let's also celebrate the small and big wins together.
 
@Mamnoon In another thread you posted that England is taking this series as a glorified warm up for the Indian series, When you make ridiculous points like that and try to downplay Pakistan's every achievement, it's no surprise that some fans would have issues with your posts
 
Asch Ali said:
It’s the indians who call this a fluke.
They say:
“Oh England was a really weak team”
“They threw all of their wickets away”
“The conditions weren’t very English”
“Their batting collapsed unluckily”
“Root isn’t a good captain”
“They dropped the catch”
“They were tired of playing”
Click to expand...

Really? From what I have seen Indians have been really appreciative of Pakistan's performance. Dont go by the views of a few attention seeking trolls.
 
Mamoon said:
I usually don't like to create threads, but I have been forced to do so because I would like to touch on a few things and I can't find an appropriate thread.

It appears that every time Pakistan is going to win, people are going to line up like sheep and call it a fluke in order to score some cheap points and to have a go at me.

The clever ones, in order to provide some comic relief, are going to come up with gifs to make people laugh, showcasing their originality because it is something that has not been done before.

Every Pakistan win is not fluke. I have been on this forum for 6 years and I have over 70k posts. Please find a list of my posts where I have labeled Pakistan wins as fluke.

"Fluke" has been buzzword on PakPassion over the last year because I used it to describe Pakistan's Champions Trophy triumph, and I do not regret it. I am still adamant that it was a fluke, because I do not recall the last time things fell in place for a team to win the way it did for Pakistan over the course of those 4 games. Every single thing that could have gone right for Pakistan did.

That word seemed to have blasted a few nerves, and I do not know why or how, but it seemed to have caught up with Shoaib Akhtar and Younis Khan as well.

The matches that Pakistan have won over the course of its history have not been flukes, and this win at Lord's was not a fluke either. Pakistan simply played better cricket than England whoever extremely poor in all departments.

Now the snowflakes have a problem with calling the English performance as poor, because apparently it is an attempt to take credit away from Pakistan. No it is not.

England have some world class players, and obviously if they play to their potential, Pakistan would not romp to a 9 wicket win in 4 days, but that is how most cricket matches won - one team is better than the other on the day, so it is not an attempt to discredit the fact that Pakistan thoroughly outplayed England over the 4 days.

Moreover, people simply want everyone to stand in line and claim that everything is nice and dandy and every win is supposedly the start of a new golden era.

In my time on PakPassion, I have seen at least ten different instances that were supposedly the start of a new golden era, only for it to go up in ashes. The same people were tripping over each other to explain why the Champions Trophy winning golden Pakistan team got battered in New Zealand, and the same folks would have come up with the "it is a fluke" posts and stupid gifs to mock me had we won the New Zealand series.

I am sure they had their posts and gifs ready and were itching to post them, but unfortunately, the champions did not give them the opportunity.

Pakistani fans are the only group of fans where every important win has to be the start of a new golden era, because apparently, you cannot win matches in isolation.

The irony is that isolated victories is all that Pakistan has achieved in its history - we have never had prolonged periods of dominance because we have never been able to build up on our wins, and everything blows up soon after things look great.

We were supposed to be the best ODI team in the world after the Champions Trophy, and apparently only England in England and Australia in Australia could compete with us, and I can quote posts of the people who have spent the last four days having a go at me, but I would let it go because I don't think they deserve that humiliation at this time.

This inconsistency of Pakistan cricket has been repackaged and rebranded as "unpredictability" and "mercuriality", as if it is something to be proud of. No, it is nothing to be proud of. Only in Pakistan is inconsistency considered positive.

I do not mind people calling me a troll and an attention-seeker; people can say what they want, they are free to do so, but trolls do not explain their viewpoints and I am always prepared to argue my points. Whether people agree or not is not my problem, since it is not in my control.

The only thing that I can control is to explain my views. I don't have a problem with people insulting me or taking shots at me; the only problem I have when people misquote me, put words in my mouth, and take my comments out of context.

Moreover, I also have an issue with people thinking that I win when Pakistan loses, and vice versa.

Just because I think that Pakistan is a mediocre team does not mean that I don't want Pakistan to win. I have followed the game decades before I joined PakPassion, and I will follow the game decades after I leave, and I have spent more time in Pakistan than some of the expats who label me an Indian, just because I don't wear green-tinted glasses and think that India is a far better team.

We don't love the game because we post on this forum; we post on this forum because we love the game. None of us will post here forever, and we will all move on with our lives.

If Pakistan assemble a team that I think can become the best in the world, I will be the first one to admit. However, it has not happened yet, but I would love for it to happen. My so-called "character" of being a pessimist means absolutely nothing to me.

I am sorry for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. I am not upset, but I am tired for getting criticized for presenting my opinions, because it prevents me from criticizing, appreciating and supporting in proper spirit.

Furthermore, it doesn't allow me celebrate because apparently I am gutted that Pakistan have won, just because I back Pakistan to lose more often than not.

The only thing I have seen over the last few days is people queuing up to call this win a fluke because apparently that is what I think. I have tried to play along a couple of times because that is what people want to hear from me apparently, for e.g. the Pakistan wins in Ramzaan thread etc., but every Pakistan win is not a fluke, and I have the right to celebrate wins as much as anyone else.

I am not sure if this thread is appropriate or not but I have been left with little choice because of the actions of a group of people.

Considering the obsession of some people, it appears that my views give them nightmares, yet I am the one blamed for "seeking attention".
Click to expand...

This is the first time I've heard someone call the Champions trophy win a fluke and I have a serious problem with your evaluation. If you say the Champions trophy win was a fluke then you are also saying the pak 92 world Cup win was a fluke and Australia 99 world Cup was a fluke (klusener Alan Donald run out). You must be out of your mind. Are you telling me that you do not appreciate how pak finished off england in 20 overs and India in 15 overs during the Champions trophy. Are you that short sighted that you can only focus on two dropped catches in the entire tournament. So you this Australia 2015 world Cup win was also a fluke because Rahat drop catch. I seriously have a big problem with this post.
 
Mamoon said:
I usually don't like to create threads, but I have been forced to do so because I would like to touch on a few things and I can't find an appropriate thread.

It appears that every time Pakistan is going to win, people are going to line up like sheep and call it a fluke in order to score some cheap points and to have a go at me.

The clever ones, in order to provide some comic relief, are going to come up with gifs to make people laugh, showcasing their originality because it is something that has not been done before.

Every Pakistan win is not fluke. I have been on this forum for 6 years and I have over 70k posts. Please find a list of my posts where I have labeled Pakistan wins as fluke.

"Fluke" has been buzzword on PakPassion over the last year because I used it to describe Pakistan's Champions Trophy triumph, and I do not regret it. I am still adamant that it was a fluke, because I do not recall the last time things fell in place for a team to win the way it did for Pakistan over the course of those 4 games. Every single thing that could have gone right for Pakistan did.

That word seemed to have blasted a few nerves, and I do not know why or how, but it seemed to have caught up with Shoaib Akhtar and Younis Khan as well.

The matches that Pakistan have won over the course of its history have not been flukes, and this win at Lord's was not a fluke either. Pakistan simply played better cricket than England whoever extremely poor in all departments.

Now the snowflakes have a problem with calling the English performance as poor, because apparently it is an attempt to take credit away from Pakistan. No it is not.

England have some world class players, and obviously if they play to their potential, Pakistan would not romp to a 9 wicket win in 4 days, but that is how most cricket matches won - one team is better than the other on the day, so it is not an attempt to discredit the fact that Pakistan thoroughly outplayed England over the 4 days.

Moreover, people simply want everyone to stand in line and claim that everything is nice and dandy and every win is supposedly the start of a new golden era.

In my time on PakPassion, I have seen at least ten different instances that were supposedly the start of a new golden era, only for it to go up in ashes. The same people were tripping over each other to explain why the Champions Trophy winning golden Pakistan team got battered in New Zealand, and the same folks would have come up with the "it is a fluke" posts and stupid gifs to mock me had we won the New Zealand series.

I am sure they had their posts and gifs ready and were itching to post them, but unfortunately, the champions did not give them the opportunity.

Pakistani fans are the only group of fans where every important win has to be the start of a new golden era, because apparently, you cannot win matches in isolation.

The irony is that isolated victories is all that Pakistan has achieved in its history - we have never had prolonged periods of dominance because we have never been able to build up on our wins, and everything blows up soon after things look great.

We were supposed to be the best ODI team in the world after the Champions Trophy, and apparently only England in England and Australia in Australia could compete with us, and I can quote posts of the people who have spent the last four days having a go at me, but I would let it go because I don't think they deserve that humiliation at this time.

This inconsistency of Pakistan cricket has been repackaged and rebranded as "unpredictability" and "mercuriality", as if it is something to be proud of. No, it is nothing to be proud of. Only in Pakistan is inconsistency considered positive.

I do not mind people calling me a troll and an attention-seeker; people can say what they want, they are free to do so, but trolls do not explain their viewpoints and I am always prepared to argue my points. Whether people agree or not is not my problem, since it is not in my control.

The only thing that I can control is to explain my views. I don't have a problem with people insulting me or taking shots at me; the only problem I have when people misquote me, put words in my mouth, and take my comments out of context.

Moreover, I also have an issue with people thinking that I win when Pakistan loses, and vice versa.

Just because I think that Pakistan is a mediocre team does not mean that I don't want Pakistan to win. I have followed the game decades before I joined PakPassion, and I will follow the game decades after I leave, and I have spent more time in Pakistan than some of the expats who label me an Indian, just because I don't wear green-tinted glasses and think that India is a far better team.

We don't love the game because we post on this forum; we post on this forum because we love the game. None of us will post here forever, and we will all move on with our lives.

If Pakistan assemble a team that I think can become the best in the world, I will be the first one to admit. However, it has not happened yet, but I would love for it to happen. My so-called "character" of being a pessimist means absolutely nothing to me.

I am sorry for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. I am not upset, but I am tired for getting criticized for presenting my opinions, because it prevents me from criticizing, appreciating and supporting in proper spirit.

Furthermore, it doesn't allow me celebrate because apparently I am gutted that Pakistan have won, just because I back Pakistan to lose more often than not.

The only thing I have seen over the last few days is people queuing up to call this win a fluke because apparently that is what I think. I have tried to play along a couple of times because that is what people want to hear from me apparently, for e.g. the Pakistan wins in Ramzaan thread etc., but every Pakistan win is not a fluke, and I have the right to celebrate wins as much as anyone else.

I am not sure if this thread is appropriate or not but I have been left with little choice because of the actions of a group of people.

Considering the obsession of some people, it appears that my views give them nightmares, yet I am the one blamed for "seeking attention".
Click to expand...

By creating this thread [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], you have invariably put yourself directly underneath the proverbial Damocles sword. As every time Pakistan wins hereon, you would be subjected to trolling. To me this was completely unnecessary. It doesn't serve any purpose other than providing fuel to some posters to ridicule you further.

Also it should be useful to understand why such a situation arose. The fact that you never acknowledge Pakistan's wins as genuine and always consider them as a by product of some flukes is what irks many posters here. It's not because you think India is a better team than Pakistan. 90% of the posters here with or without green tinted glasses would agree with the assertion that India is a far better team than Pakistan.

Going forward, you really need to evaluate the definition of fluke. Winning the Champions Trophy cannot be considered a fluke because a team cannot consistently beat three of the best ODI teams in succession simply based on flukes. Those were proper demolition jobs by the Pakistan team. I remember you discrediting Pakistan's win in the SF simply because you thought conditions were dry and suited Pakistan. Well it may have suited Pakistan but you still have to go out there and do your job. Also you ignored the fact that Pakistan still had match-winners in that team, namely, Amir, Hasan, Fakhar and reliable support aids in the form of Sarfraz and Babar. Hasan was on point throughout the whole tournament. He didn't just turn up in the final. Similarly Fakhar was providing great starts in every single match, not just the final. You also have to see that those two have more or less maintained their performances over the course of the next 12 months.

Pakistan getting whitewashed in NZ cannot be a reason to point and say "see, I told you the CT was a fluke." The team that went to NZ was horribly under prepared. they played just one tour match before playing 5 matches on the bounce. If you look at the scorecards, the bowling did well in all the games restricting NZ to achievable totals. It was just that the batsmen never adapted to the conditions due to lack of practice.

You touch upon the aspect of inconsistency of the Pakistan's team and lament that Pakistan has never had a prolonged period of dominance. That is true but you have understand that that has been the hallmark of Pakistan and will remain forever until you change the fabric of society and become an economic powerhouse. Our underwhelming performances soon after reaching a pinnacle is because we have no structure to build upon our successes. Its all "apni madad aap" in our society and this naturally flows into our sports. So some days we will be world champs and other days we'd lose miserably to Ireland. So no one should attribute that pinnacle to a fluke. That's just how Pakistan rolls. India wasn't any different to how we are today back in the 90's. They would have a morale boosting pinnacle and then lose to Zimbabwe every other match. It's only after they changed their economic fortunes post 2000 that their cricket got streamlined for which they are reaping the results now. So until the time Pakistan becomes an economic giant, we will see such peaks and troughs.

Regarding this series, it wasn't only you who thought Pakistan would lose 2-0. Many people thought the same. Even I said the same but I also posted that despite odds being heavily in favor of England whitewashing Pakistan, I still think Pakistan could spring a surprise because they had practiced well for this tour and they would be under no pressure during this series due to few expectations. And you have to acknowledge that England's Test team is NOT many times better than Pakistan. They are a declining Test team.

I hope you understand that posters here don't mind you saying that Pakistan does not have a good team (they all realize that) but they mind when you unnecessarily discredit each Pakistan win and credit it due to factors such as conditions, fluke and the opposition not playing to their potential.

Sometimes you just have to applaud the resilience of this Pakistan team who have overcome immeasurable odds to win matches for their country.
 
This is such a grandiose OP. I don’t understand why people fall into the trap of giving this person so much importance.

The OP really needs to look to try and enjoy the game and his allegedly favourite team Pakistan rather than complaining about everything they do.

End of.
 
U bring it onto yourself with your overly pessimistic and doom mongering posts. No one is saying this pakistan team is ATGs or world class. But it looks like there is some promise for the future. The team looks together and doesnt seem to have the same political in fighting and divisions we have seen in teams of the past. Now we could well go to Headingley and get spanked. This is a young inexperinced team at Test Match Level especially overseas. For them to dominate England at Lord's in conditions that suited the home team more which is way more experienced than Pakistan was a great achievement. One of the great overseas Test wins when u look at how most people saw what would happen pre match.

We played good solid cricket for 5 days mixed with a few moments of magic from the bowlers and were just better than England. When u come back here for the start of the series just to post negative things and revel in how we will get exposed then dont be surprised when u are slapped by people.

No one is saying u should hype Pakistan to the moon. But at least give the team a chance.
 
This thread is a lame attempt at self defence and self justification
 
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Oh man Mamoon what would we do without you.

Few years ago PP interviewed you. Question was asked of how you handle criticism on daily basis from multiple posters. Your answer was somewhere along the lines of, you never take criticism personally, you welcome it, you cherish it, and despite many things you are, that was one quality i wish i had, you're the most ridiculed poster on PP ever yet I have never seen you lose it like this. This post surely for once contradicts your immune to criticism character, you're just a human!

As far as PCT is concerned man i am happy for once. Culture reset is doing wonders and producing results. This is Pakistan's best fielding side ever, best lower batting order since the 90s, discipline (even when batting!), togetherness, team first attitude and most importantly end of Sifarishi era (or almost). These are some of the radical changes that Mickey and co have tackled and must be appreciated. No more TTFs, Younis Khan blackmailing his way into ODIs, Shoaib Malik selecting Misbah when he was in atrocious form for a year, Misbah then repaying few years later as captain and selecting him , no self obsessed dudes like Akmal, Afridi, and Shehzad. No half cooked talent like Tanvir, Bhatti and Anwar who claimed he is the best all rounder in Pak. For once we got some men that can leave their ego at home and come to work, I'm finally enjoying watching them again. Just have patience, losses to SL and WI can be forgiven, they are kids, learning their craft and rest assured Mickey will train them hard.

PS - Any ballers out here? This is the culture reset Toronto raptors need ! with new personnel of course.
 
Champions Trophy wasn't a fluke, as it was a succession of quite a few matches we had to win. And we didn't win them by fluke, a lot of them weren't close matches. Pakistan improved throughout the tournament and at the end did look like the strongest team, in both batting and bowling. That's not a fluke.

Here we won 1 game against England. Ironically this could be perceived more of a fluke given our poor test record. And the fact we struggled to win against Ireland. But England isn't that good.

I think a lot of Pakistan fans neglect this point, but our team is very talented. Ability wise it should be challenging for the top no question. It's not simply a question of there always being talent in Pakistan which people harp on about, there is talent in the team itself. That we didn't have in the past, and whom I don't believe was knocking around in domestic either. Babar, Hasan, Amir (because he was banned), Shadab, Fakhar, Haris (because he was injured), Imam, etc just weren't around a few years ago. Was nothing about them not being picked or anything.

If you compare the England's test team and ours, we destroy them in ability. England are forced to play guys like Stoneman, Malan, Bess, Wood etc. These guys aren't of the same level as the upcoming Pakistan talent of Babar, Haris, Hasan, Shadab, Imam etc. You can see by watching them.

It really seems like a golden generation of talent coming up. Actual talent, not just guys talented on the eye e.g. Kamran, Afridi, Nazir etc. And I really hope that we make use of that talent and challenge for the top. None of this mid table stuff/lower ranked that we've been accustomed too now for 20 odd years or so. The only side who seems to rival our young talent with their young talent is India themselves who are around the top of the rankings.

I think Mamoon doesn't use the word fluke properly. He remarks that we're a mid table side (sometimes low-mid), who when we win things is less expected. We weren't expected to win the CT before it began, we just scraped qualification lol. Even against this weak (IMO) English test side we were expected to lose 2-0. But that doesn't mean that we didn't play well over a period of time e.g. CT, or that we didn't have the talent/ability to win. Because we did. But I would like it for a change for us to play consistently and be one of those top ranked sides. To actually go against big teams even away from home or tournaments and be considered favourites. None of this underdog rubbish.
 
Mamoon said:
I usually don't like to create threads, but I have been forced to do so because I would like to touch on a few things and I can't find an appropriate thread.

It appears that every time Pakistan is going to win, people are going to line up like sheep and call it a fluke in order to score some cheap points and to have a go at me.

The clever ones, in order to provide some comic relief, are going to come up with gifs to make people laugh, showcasing their originality because it is something that has not been done before.

Every Pakistan win is not fluke. I have been on this forum for 6 years and I have over 70k posts. Please find a list of my posts where I have labeled Pakistan wins as fluke.

"Fluke" has been buzzword on PakPassion over the last year because I used it to describe Pakistan's Champions Trophy triumph, and I do not regret it. I am still adamant that it was a fluke, because I do not recall the last time things fell in place for a team to win the way it did for Pakistan over the course of those 4 games. Every single thing that could have gone right for Pakistan did.

That word seemed to have blasted a few nerves, and I do not know why or how, but it seemed to have caught up with Shoaib Akhtar and Younis Khan as well.

The matches that Pakistan have won over the course of its history have not been flukes, and this win at Lord's was not a fluke either. Pakistan simply played better cricket than England whoever extremely poor in all departments.

Now the snowflakes have a problem with calling the English performance as poor, because apparently it is an attempt to take credit away from Pakistan. No it is not.

England have some world class players, and obviously if they play to their potential, Pakistan would not romp to a 9 wicket win in 4 days, but that is how most cricket matches won - one team is better than the other on the day, so it is not an attempt to discredit the fact that Pakistan thoroughly outplayed England over the 4 days.

Moreover, people simply want everyone to stand in line and claim that everything is nice and dandy and every win is supposedly the start of a new golden era.

In my time on PakPassion, I have seen at least ten different instances that were supposedly the start of a new golden era, only for it to go up in ashes. The same people were tripping over each other to explain why the Champions Trophy winning golden Pakistan team got battered in New Zealand, and the same folks would have come up with the "it is a fluke" posts and stupid gifs to mock me had we won the New Zealand series.

I am sure they had their posts and gifs ready and were itching to post them, but unfortunately, the champions did not give them the opportunity.

Pakistani fans are the only group of fans where every important win has to be the start of a new golden era, because apparently, you cannot win matches in isolation.

The irony is that isolated victories is all that Pakistan has achieved in its history - we have never had prolonged periods of dominance because we have never been able to build up on our wins, and everything blows up soon after things look great.

We were supposed to be the best ODI team in the world after the Champions Trophy, and apparently only England in England and Australia in Australia could compete with us, and I can quote posts of the people who have spent the last four days having a go at me, but I would let it go because I don't think they deserve that humiliation at this time.

This inconsistency of Pakistan cricket has been repackaged and rebranded as "unpredictability" and "mercuriality", as if it is something to be proud of. No, it is nothing to be proud of. Only in Pakistan is inconsistency considered positive.

I do not mind people calling me a troll and an attention-seeker; people can say what they want, they are free to do so, but trolls do not explain their viewpoints and I am always prepared to argue my points. Whether people agree or not is not my problem, since it is not in my control.

The only thing that I can control is to explain my views. I don't have a problem with people insulting me or taking shots at me; the only problem I have when people misquote me, put words in my mouth, and take my comments out of context.

Moreover, I also have an issue with people thinking that I win when Pakistan loses, and vice versa.

Just because I think that Pakistan is a mediocre team does not mean that I don't want Pakistan to win. I have followed the game decades before I joined PakPassion, and I will follow the game decades after I leave, and I have spent more time in Pakistan than some of the expats who label me an Indian, just because I don't wear green-tinted glasses and think that India is a far better team.

We don't love the game because we post on this forum; we post on this forum because we love the game. None of us will post here forever, and we will all move on with our lives.

If Pakistan assemble a team that I think can become the best in the world, I will be the first one to admit. However, it has not happened yet, but I would love for it to happen. My so-called "character" of being a pessimist means absolutely nothing to me.

I am sorry for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. I am not upset, but I am tired for getting criticized for presenting my opinions, because it prevents me from criticizing, appreciating and supporting in proper spirit.

Furthermore, it doesn't allow me celebrate because apparently I am gutted that Pakistan have won, just because I back Pakistan to lose more often than not.

The only thing I have seen over the last few days is people queuing up to call this win a fluke because apparently that is what I think. I have tried to play along a couple of times because that is what people want to hear from me apparently, for e.g. the Pakistan wins in Ramzaan thread etc., but every Pakistan win is not a fluke, and I have the right to celebrate wins as much as anyone else.

I am not sure if this thread is appropriate or not but I have been left with little choice because of the actions of a group of people.

Considering the obsession of some people, it appears that my views give them nightmares, yet I am the one blamed for "seeking attention".
Click to expand...

Most posters take your words seriously. They know whatever you speak is with context, although sometimes the biasedness of opinion for certain names is there.

And this is why they get offended because if a certain team or a certain cricketer is doing well, you might still take a flak on him which many posters might dislike as they still consider you a great poster and take your words seriously.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], stop winding up people for wrong reason, everything'll be solved - posters respect you and reads your post, I do for sure, for every post.

I told you just recently - you are digging hole unnecessarily. Lot's of topics to get under skin, BUT there are lot to praise for PAK cricket as well - try to appreciate where it's due; people will accept even 2X criticism. And, there is a soft corner for IND (other way), in a PAK forum - you don't need to bring them uncalled for, that too when it's OTT every time.

For example, I do write quite harsh on PAK batting culture & Coaches; but for a purpose and with examples, more or less people might argue on that in proper spirit but it ends there .......... you brought Hardik Pandeya to Kapil's level ....... just one example.

For this latest funda (fluke - be it at Oval or Lord's), just one point is enough, which I told Junaids in other thread - PAK players play domestics at the worst condition, facilities - then travels AUS/SAF/UK once in a decade, and no A tours - add to that 1st Test in 7 days of landing - ask Indians to do the same or AUS/Poms in Asia; you should understand what is fluke.....

Just clean the slate, start from scratch and write what you can see in proper spirit - you have enough in the tank, to add quality in PP; and by proper spirit I am not saying that start proving why this PAK attack is best in world or the talent pool is great enough to unleash the next gen AUS ....... just don't try to prove B Kumar better than Amir, people'll forget every thing.

Also, like an elder bro, I have one suggestion - quickly get married, one year of proper grooming from the left side'll take lots of venom out of you; you'll start to believe that Quyamat nazdig hai, there are lot many important things in life than blogging, like dish washing, laundry, onion chopping, ......

Cheers//
 
Whats the point of this thread? Once again Manoon saab has fallen on his face. All he was expecting was a huge trashing by ENG. Must have hurt as after India Eng is his 2nd team.

Also you complain about people calling you out. Well you do exactly the same. Always this rant that pak fans start talking about a new era etc.

Oh bhai. No there is no new era or golden era. With our set up having a team is already a miracle. For the so called golden era we need to start from 0.

The CT and yeterdays win just show that no matter what PAK raw talent delivers. As a cricket fan just enjoy it.
 
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Ab Fan said:
Most posters take your words seriously. They know whatever you speak is with context, although sometimes the biasedness of opinion for certain names is there.

And this is why they get offended because if a certain team or a certain cricketer is doing well, you might still take a flak on him which many posters might dislike as they still consider you a great poster and take your words seriously.
Click to expand...

That is a very sad indictment on the posters here on PP
 
To be honest, I may sometimes disagree with Mamoon's point of view. Which is obvious as everybody has their own opinion.

But the way he was/is being handled by some of the posters, is just ridiculous.
I mean don't be to personal and let him express his views about the beautiful game of cricket.

If you don't like it, just scroll it ahead.

End.
 
Mamoon

Chin up - well done for trying to explain.

My only gripe is you NEVER say anything positive.

You said this series is a warmup and England will forget it if they beat India. Frankly, this kind of comment is insulting and unnecessary.
 
Some of you folks love fighting with each other, and I think there's often a complete misjudgment of people or assumptions about them. I haven't been here that long and don't have the time to be here as often I'd like, but I've noticed a pattern.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] doesn't seem anti-Pakistan to me at all. At worst he's reflexively critical, and people who are sensitive about Pakistan get worn out and this pattern repeats itself into people over-reading.

Would it to be too hard to accept that Mamoon's love for the team/country/whatever is expressed through disappointment and criticism, as much as yours is by defensiveness?

Maybe I'm wrong but people get away with being judgmental online in a way they'd not be allowed to as easily in real life.
 
Lol some of you are analyzing his intentions like it matters. This bloke is one of the biggest wind up merchants on this forum. I doubt he even believes in most of the stuff he writes, but gets a kick out of provoking scathing replies on here. I stopped taking him seriously when he said Hardik Pandya is one of the best all-rounders in world cricket atm. Like what the heck :))
 
You are a polarizing character. Being polarizing isn't a bad thing, it is needed from time to time. However when the vast majority of the views you express are polarizing while people rarely hear any agreement or common views from you, you will get resentment.

It's like that guy at a party who just stands with his back against the wall and points out why the party is lame. He will say the food is lame, the music is lame and the girls are lame while contributing absolutely nothing to the party. Nobody likes that kind of a guy.

That's how you come across.

You need to express more of the views where you agree with others and express them in the same detail as you express your opposition. Otherwise you are just a buzzkill.

Nobody likes a buzzkill, no one likes a spoilsport. That's just how life works.

At the same time, I am against bullying. Even if it's "cyber-bullying".

Some posters do like to take it far and gang up together and systematically target others. It is all fun and giggles until it becomes obnoxiously exaggerated. Like in the match commentary thread it does bothers me when people out of nowhere start calling out other posters just because the match situation is currently in their favor.

It takes away all the fun atmosphere and makes it appear as if some highschool kids are having a bullying contest. The place than doesn't feel welcoming at all and instead it becomes an all inclusive bandwagoning festive.

It's as if people here are just waiting for their fav player/team to perform and hoping for their counterpart's fav player/team to fail just so that they can rub it in at their face and one up on them. The whole place becomes a competitive and hostile environment.

Since their is no "cyber-police" to punish cyber-bullying the responsibility lies on us to act maturly and understand when the joke is getting too far.
 
Logical said:
Oh man Mamoon what would we do without you.

Few years ago PP interviewed you. Question was asked of how you handle criticism on daily basis from multiple posters. Your answer was somewhere along the lines of, you never take criticism personally, you welcome it, you cherish it, and despite many things you are, that was one quality i wish i had, you're the most ridiculed poster on PP ever yet I have never seen you lose it like this. This post surely for once contradicts your immune to criticism character, you're just a human!

[...]
Click to expand...

No one is immune to criticism in a sense that it doesn't feel good when you are criticized. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying or delusional. If there was no emotional reaction to criticism there would be no incentive for people to change their view or behavior. However what's important is whether we are mature enough to listen to the criticism objectively irrespective of our emotions and willing to acknowledge our shortcomings and false view irrespective of how painful to our pride it might be.

At the same time how you are being criticized is important too. If someone is criticizing you just to have a laugh and ridicule you, you are most likely going to resent that person instead of examining yourself. Criticism should always come from an attitude where you genuinely want to help the other person to get rid of their flawed view or behavior.

In our pakistani culture most often ridicule and condescending remarks are passed under the disguise of "criticism". No wonder as a nation we don't like being criticized because in our mind we are always questioning the other guys intention and see it as an attack on our pride and self-worth.
 
Pak finally has a new generation of cricketers who don't indulge in dirty politics. It doesn't take much to realize what type of personalities we had in the dressing room by watching some of the interviews of our ex-cricketers.
 
Just like how you criticize Azhar Ali for being a strokeless batsman, even after he has shown he can adapt from time to time (re: chase against Lanka in that test in UAE under Misbah and CT final etc.) and the fact that Pak team needs him to dead bat the new ball (do check Rahul Dravid's SR, it is not very different from Azhars as well and yet he is never called out for it) so batsmen coming down the order can have an easier time...so will people call you out for your incessant negativity, taking the opposite stance just for the sake of it, continuing to criticize Pak team/players despite them getting only so many chances to prove etc.

Whether you like it or not, passionate fans will not like this constant 'Phuphay Kutni' role that play so well day in and day out, and yet in this OP, you still riled most fans up by claiming whole CT was a fluke and that many here are snow flakes.
 
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Monsee said:
Just like how you criticize Azhar Ali for being a strokeless batsman, even after he has shown he can adapt from time to time (re: chase against Lanka in that test in UAE under Misbah and CT final etc.) and the fact that Pak team needs him to dead bat the new ball (do check Rahul Dravid's SR, it is not very different from Azhars as well and yet he is never called out for it) so batsmen coming down the order can have an easier time...so will people call you out for your incessant negativity, taking the opposite stance just for the sake of it, continuing to criticize Pak team/players despite them getting only so many chances to prove etc.

Whether you like it or not, passionate fans will not like this constant 'Phuphay Kutni' role that play so well day in and day out, and yet in this OP, you still riled most fans up by claiming whole CT was a fluke and that many here are snow flakes.
Click to expand...

My friend, I find it hilarious how many people get riled up my Mamoon. It's clear he is here to wind people up, yet people take offense from his posts. Not sure if he is to blame, or others who despite recognizing his intention, still engage him. It's almost like an abusive relationship, where the abused still harbors hope of converting their abuser into a good person through continuous appeasement.. :))
 
Third_Umpire said:
My friend, I find it hilarious how many people get riled up my Mamoon. It's clear he is here to wind people up, yet people take offense from his posts. Not sure if he is to blame, or others who despite recognizing his intention, still engage him. It's almost like an abusive relationship, where the abused still harbors hope of converting their abuser into a good person through continuous appeasement.. :))
Click to expand...



I was strictly replying to his whinging, not really caring of his trolling; I have been called that name by more here than even Mamoon!
 
Amazing posts in this thread. Long paragraphs of extremism I.e. not gracefully accepting a thought opposite to yours.

Why call him names etc when he doesn't have the popular mainstream opinion on some matters? Or is not too optimistic in certain cases?

Feels a lot how it's like with some political parties.
 
Hawkeye said:
Amazing posts in this thread. Long paragraphs of extremism I.e. not gracefully accepting a thought opposite to yours.

Why call him names etc when he doesn't have the popular mainstream opinion on some matters? Or is not too optimistic in certain cases?

Feels a lot how it's like with some political parties.
Click to expand...


Exactly! The very fact that [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] 's posts get these posters all twisted and causing them to resort to adhominem attacks clearly tells that he is on the right track for most part.
 
I find Mamoon one of the best readers of the game on here and if you put the "negative" as well all the "pro-India" and sarcastic comments aside you can learn from the way he critically thinks about different aspects of the game. The way he can see cricket from other perspectives always makes it a worthwhile read whether you agree with him or not.

I've watched the game since 2000 and the more you watch cricket, the more appreciate the intricacies of the game. Many on here try to trivialise things and take things at face value for e.g. Pakistan being number 1 in the T20 rankings. Unfortunately large % of posters here seem to think this directly correlates with Pakistan's superiority over everyone else in this format however this couldn't be further from the truth. Mamoon has picked up on this and brought this up many times because in cases like this he isn't intentionally being negative, it's about giving some of us here a reality check. Pakistan are not the best T20 side but that's argument for another day.

As for the fluke comment following the CT win, this has been grossly misinterpreted but I would advise Mamoon to alter his choice of "Fluke" as the buzzword here. What he is actually trying to say is it is a one off. An analogy that could be made here is with Leicester's Premiership couple or so seasons back, it isn't a fluke but a one - off. Unfortunately the choice of word is what has triggered so many on here and have taken the meaning literally.

The post from Mamoon that I've enjoyed reading the most is the one when he owned couple of Englishmen on here concerning Jack Hobb's technique

Like many others I felt the use of "glorified warm up" and was insulting and should have been avoided.
His criticism of Younis Khan I think is slightly OTT even though I feel he is short of being ATG. In addition if you're going to say "7th ranked side deserves 2 tests", then you should be have no qualms in saying India deserve lesser tests than Pakistan if they lose the series this summer given Pakistan has achieved 2 back to back series unbeaten in England.

But to conclude the biggest issue on PP isn't Mamoon's negative and (at times) sarcastic posts but the hype brigade on here. Typical example is how the majority on here seem to think Faheem Ashraf is better than Hardik Pandya even though there is no basis or any significant performances as yet from him in internationals or PSL for that matter.
 
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Ik92yk09sa17 said:
Personally I like the role we play in international cricket. We are the most fun to watch and that’s down to being mercurial. I don’t think I’d enjoy us as much if we were blowing teams away all the time. Every game, even against lesser opposition we make interesting. Yet on our day we can blow away the best.
Click to expand...
That’s nothing to be proud of. Wining game here and there is not a big deal. Winning consistently is something hard to achieve.
 
Send1983 said:
That’s nothing to be proud of. Wining game here and there is not a big deal. Winning consistently is something hard to achieve.
Click to expand...

Wining and winning.... were is the consistency? 😂😂

Hypocrite! You didn’t agree with this argument when discussing the H2H over WC... I really cba with you.
 
Monsee said:
Just like how you criticize Azhar Ali for being a strokeless batsman, even after he has shown he can adapt from time to time (re: chase against Lanka in that test in UAE under Misbah and CT final etc.) and the fact that Pak team needs him to dead bat the new ball (do check Rahul Dravid's SR, it is not very different from Azhars as well and yet he is never called out for it) so batsmen coming down the order can have an easier time...so will people call you out for your incessant negativity, taking the opposite stance just for the sake of it, continuing to criticize Pak team/players despite them getting only so many chances to prove etc.

Whether you like it or not, passionate fans will not like this constant 'Phuphay Kutni' role that play so well day in and day out, and yet in this OP, you still riled most fans up by claiming whole CT was a fluke and that many here are snow flakes.
Click to expand...

I know you got worked up. But lol at stroke less wonder Azhar ali’s Strike rate is being compared with ATG Rahul Dravid. For some folks here, Dravid is even better than Sachin. People who have watched cricket enough can easily figure out there is a huge class difference between Rahul Dravid and Azhar Ali as a bastman. You need to calm down a bit.
 
Send1983 said:
I know you got worked up. But lol at stroke less wonder Azhar ali’s Strike rate is being compared with ATG Rahul Dravid. For some folks here, Dravid is even better than Sachin. People who have watched cricket enough can easily figure out there is a huge class difference between Rahul Dravid and Azhar Ali as a bastman. You need to calm down a bit.
Click to expand...




Calm down, Mr. Monroe or is it Munro, have you figured it out yet? You are the one running around the site picking up useless arguments with everyone!

No one claimed that Azhar is similar class to Dravid, your mind twisted my statement for you to believe that way; all I said was Azhar's overall SR is not far off from Dravid's and he is as important to our batting as Dravid once was for India despite most Indian fans thinking Tendu was it for them!

Think before you type and it shall make a better impression on others, and stop trying hard to troll; it is not working for you
 
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Monsee said:
Calm down, Mr. Monroe or is it Munro, have you figured it out yet? You are the one running around the site picking up useless arguments with everyone!

No one claimed that Azhar is similar class to Dravid, your mind twisted my statement for you to believe that way; all I said was Azhar's overall SR is not far off from Dravid's and he is as important to our batting as Dravid once was for India despite most Indian fans thinking Tendu was it for them!

Think before you type and it shall make a better impression on others, and stop trying hard to troll; it is not working for you
Click to expand...

Lol at picking on the spelling mistake.

I clearly see that you are upset with Mamoon. Don’t have to show your frustration to others. Just take a break. Now you are call8ng me a troll for responding to your Azhar Ali and Rahul Dravid strikerate comparison. :smh:
 
Bro you are an enigma, a good role model in that you never seek validation from anyone and always fully express yourself, it kind of puts you in "harm's" way but honestly this is just the internet and these are just words on a screen, you've gone 6 years without caring about people's opinions, and if you genuinely hold those opinions, then they are worth speaking out loud.

World would be a very boring place if everybody just nodded their head to the most popular opinion and nobody challenged them or looked at it from their very own point of view.

Even PP would be boring if everybody shared the same genuine thoughts on every facet of cricket.
 
Glad to see u back Mamoon; last few days would have been tough but u can enjoy for now
 
There is nothing to enjoy. I don’t enjoy us losing, and we fully deserved to win at Lord’s but this capitulation was always on the cards.

All this golden era etc. is nonsense, I don’t think we will ever become a consistent team.
 
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