"Every time we bring these young players in, they have come in and stood up" : Mickey Arthur

[BunnyRabbit]

What are you on about, you made a superb post but ruined it with bold Azam performed very well in England and Australia, this was just a terrible series for him. He has weaknesses but he is young enough to improve on them.

He was taking more aim towards Hafeez, Azhar, Malik than anyone else. Rumman also has been good this game but pretty poor the last few games.

How did Babar have a good series in England? He didnt get a single 50 on 2016 tour.

 

[ManFan]

MA has his hands tied at the squad selection meeting. This is a direct message to the selectors. He has gotten rid of his precautionary patience not to challenge the senior quota because the last time he went hardline on non-performing veterans, he was fired from CA.

 

[Syed1]

MA has his hands tied at the squad selection meeting. This is a direct message to the selectors. He has gotten rid of his precautionary patience not to challenge the senior quota because the last time he went hardline on non-performing veterans, he was fired from CA.

Yes poor Mickey Arthur had his hands tied in the first three ODIs as well when the seniors kept failing match after match.

 

[ManFan]

Yes poor Mickey Arthur had his hands tied in the first three ODIs as well when the seniors kept failing match after match.

Don't you think he might want them to fail to have some sort of reasoning as to drop them. With the young players performing, he has made his case clear to the selectors as evident by his press conference yesterday. Of course, it will take a long time and MA is flawed because he has never coached an Asian team before but if anything, he is not a fan of bearded power donut geezers. If the average age of the team does not change in 3-5 years and he remains as coach, than you can call me out for being wrong.

 

[Savak]

Arthur has proven to be a reactionary coach unfortunately. He is practically saying the same thing which he said after the England series of 2016. Honestly there is no difference b/w him and Waqar if he will just stick with short term solutions which will hurt us in the long run i.e. the selection of Azhar Ali, persistence with medium pacers, not enough fire power in the batting line up at the top, middle. These are the same lessons one learnt from the English tour in 2016.

To say there are no replacements in domestic cricket is incorrect.

 

[TeamPak95]

This is fun...let's drop a 23 year old kid who averaged 58 before this series on the basis of 5 matches and the fact he's related to Umar Akmal. Let's forget he's the highest ranked batter we've had in over 10 years. He's the best batting prospect in Pakistan right now and he's done enough on the international arena to be considered warrant long term investment.

Do people even read what they post sometimes smh. Hussain Talat, Saad Ali and Farhan are the talk of town right now - give them a couple of bad games and the same 'fans' will have knives out for them as well.

This is international cricket not some video game. Even the best of players have lean patches.

This. There are times where I feel Pak fans don't deserve their team to have talented players ... "Babar had a bad series, he's trash drop him", "On the other hand, this guy Sahibzada Farhan is the next Don Bradman he'll be the GOAT. THERE'S NO WAY HE'LL FAIL ". Like guys, take a breath of fresh air and realize that a good amount of our core players in the team right now HAVE to feature in next year's WC. Babar's still our best bat, dropping him is the absolute last thing that needs to be done.

 

[Pak Crescent]

somebody misses Sharjeel

 

[New Yorker]

Arthur has proven to be a reactionary coach unfortunately. He is practically saying the same thing which he said after the England series of 2016. Honestly there is no difference b/w him and Waqar if he will just stick with short term solutions which will hurt us in the long run i.e. the selection of Azhar Ali, persistence with medium pacers, not enough fire power in the batting line up at the top, middle. These are the same lessons one learnt from the English tour in 2016.

To say there are no replacements in domestic cricket is incorrect.

A bit of revisionist history going on here. Waqar's problem was not that he persisted with medium pacers, but that he has an irrational fondness for a bit of extra pace, at the expense of ability to take wickets. See under Rahat; Wahab. Mickey too persevered with both far too long.

 

[Hasan123]

He clearly wants to go with a younger team and this squad selection seems to be Inzis squad. Arthur needs more say in the squad. I'm convinced the average age of the team will go down if he given more say.

CT win was mostly because of the younger players performance. So it's disappointingl that after the CT we didn't try more younger players instead of sticking with Azhar ,Hafeez, and Malik.

 

[Pete Rose]

He clearly wants to go with a younger team and this squad selection seems to be Inzis squad. Arthur needs more say in the squad. I'm convinced the average age of the team will go down if he given more say.

CT win was mostly because of the younger players performance. So it's disappointingl that after the CT we didn't try more younger players instead of sticking with Azhar ,Hafeez, and Malik.

This was bound to happen.
I know ppl don’t like the comparison, but if yk and misbah had to be played on tours where they could have retired, Malik and hafeez felt that they have just as much right to the same treatment

 

[Hasan123]

This was bound to happen.
I know ppl don’t like the comparison, but if yk and misbah had to be played on tours where they could have retired, Malik and hafeez felt that they have just as much right to the same treatment

We are in danger of having the oldest squad at the 2019 WC. Need to ditch the dead wood asap. Short term hits for long term success .

 

[Pete Rose]

We are in danger of having the oldest squad at the 2019 WC. Need to ditch the dead wood asap. Short term hits for long term success .

to me the more realistic danger is that we are going to waste some tough upcoming odi series (nz in UAE, south africa in south africa) playing these mediocre oldies rather than using them as opportunities to build a team for the world cup.
I think Malik's time is up, most likely.
Hafeez will survive this cull, but he needs to kept on a really tight leash.
The other worry is inzi's propensity to rehabilitate careers of proven failures: shehzad, butt, akmal's, umar amin, shan masood.

If arthur inzi can agree that no more recylcing, then i am quite excited about the team we do have.

 

[Hasan123]

to me the more realistic danger is that we are going to waste some tough upcoming odi series (nz in UAE, south africa in south africa) playing these mediocre oldies rather than using them as opportunities to build a team for the world cup.
I think Malik's time is up, most likely.
Hafeez will survive this cull, but he needs to kept on a really tight leash.
The other worry is inzi's propensity to rehabilitate careers of proven failures: shehzad, butt, akmal's, umar amin, shan masood.

If arthur inzi can agree that no more recylcing, then i am quite excited about the team we do have.

If we get rid of the dead wood I'm confident we will have a team to compete with the best.

I think Malik and Hafeez won't be dropped yet. Personally I would keep Malik around but he should be judged on a series by series basis. I would get rid of Hafeez and Azhar . Azhar will be dropped I think but I think Hafeez will still be selected .

 

[Pete Rose]

If we get rid of the dead wood I'm confident we will have a team to compete with the best.

I think Malik and Hafeez won't be dropped yet. Personally I would keep Malik around but he should be judged on a series by series basis. I would get rid of Hafeez and Azhar . Azhar will be dropped I think but I think Hafeez will still be selected .

malik and hafeez have been trash in: 1 -4 loss to england, 1- 4 loss to australia, 5 - 0 loss to NZ. I dont think we need a bigger sample than that to move on from these guys.

 

[Hasan123]

malik and hafeez have been trash in: 1 -4 loss to england, 1- 4 loss to australia, 5 - 0 loss to NZ. I dont think we need a bigger sample than that to move on from these guys.

Malik has been a help to some of the younger guys. Right now he's a guaranteed starter which shouldn't be the case. Having him around as a back up opition isn't the worst case.

Hafeez just has to go. He's hogging a place for someone like Hussain Talat.

 

[Pete Rose]

Malik has been a help to some of the younger guys. Right now he's a guaranteed starter which shouldn't be the case. Having him around as a back up opition isn't the worst case.

Hafeez just has to go. He's hogging a place for someone like Hussain Talat.

both should go, although, i suspect malik is out first.

 

[waleed88]

malik and hafeez have been trash in: 1 -4 loss to england, 1- 4 loss to australia, 5 - 0 loss to NZ. I dont think we need a bigger sample than that to move on from these guys.

That is true. 35 years of experience between them, served the country all over the world, multiple tours in England Australia. If still fans are satisfied by just 50s when the requirement is atleast a 100 when chasing big totals. Better to bring in batsmen who can do that.

The issue is there is no one else capable of that, I will be really happy to be proved wrong.

 

[srh]

blood in youngsters
thats the only way .

Only if Inzi select those youngsters. Mickey can work with what Inzi give him.

 

[srh]

Micky.. Please stop talking about CT and select correct combination for team. If you are complaning about conditions, why not come to NZ 1 month and have camp. What's this blueprint you now refer to, has this blueprint developed during this ODI trashing. Please stop making cunning excuses. Harris should have played in all ODIs. Hafeez and Shoaib should be no where near the team as they are minnow bashers. Opening slot for batting still a major concern. The only good observation during this ODI trashing was fielding.

The real problem is Inzi the chief selector.

 

[MMHS]

somebody misses Sharjeel

Not much - in these condition, against that attack, I bet he won’t have bettered FZ’s stats. His stats are mid leading because on a 150 @ almost 200 SR against IRL - then couple of meaty knocks against AUS on 350 par game.

People were so disgusted with Azhar - Shehzad-MoHa torture from 1-2-3 that Sharjeel felt like a breeze in desert, but his contribution wasn’t that significant in ODI. Capability was indeed there and he was a killer in T20.

 

[Pete Rose]

Not much - in these condition, against that attack, I bet he won’t have bettered FZ’s stats. His stats are mid leading because on a 150 @ almost 200 SR against IRL - then couple of meaty knocks against AUS on 350 par game.

People were so disgusted with Azhar - Shehzad-MoHa torture from 1-2-3 that Sharjeel felt like a breeze in desert, but his contribution wasn’t that significant in ODI. Capability was indeed there and he was a killer in T20.

scored 3 or 4 50's in the series with a least strike rate of 100 and touching 150 in some. he would have been very useful here.

 

[MMHS]

For a WC in UK, 6, may be 7, at most 8 of these obsolete bunch can justify the squad.

Amir, Shadab, Hasan, Babar, Haris, Fahim & FZ - though FZ is doubtful because he is playing on reflex only, the day he loses his touch, he’ll bat like a tailender; Yamin is border line - I won’t take him with that bowling.


That’s 7 - rest 9 has to come from U29 bunch. I pick my 9

Amin, Umar+, Maqsood, Saud, Talat, WK (may be Sarfraz, Rizwan, Nazir, Masood - doesn’t matter whoever, as long as he is NOT Captain, so that management can take a call to play Umar as WK and one extra bowler/allrounder or a specialist WK - so, more than batting that back up WK has to make squad on keeping merit).

3 pacers - Shaheen, may be Shinwari (but NEVER Raees - he should focus on T20) & a right arm tall pacer - I even don’t mind Arshad Iqbal. 15 months is long time for a young pacer to learn lot of things.

May be Yamin or Azam (Hammad) or Aga Salman can fight for that last pacers’ spot as an all-rounder.


It’s a land slide change for Ul Haq. I actually’ll put less money on this one happening than Ul Haq sending MoHa, Malik, Azhar, Imam, Shehzad, Nawaz and of-course Captain cool Sarfraz.

That’ll be a team worth watching indeed.

 

[MMHS]

scored 3 or 4 50's in the series with a least strike rate of 100 and touching 150 in some. he would have been very useful here.

250 runs at 115 SR ...... Babar scored 282 at 83 SR as well; though he wasn’t useful at all here - so you never know. Judging cricket with stats only is risky.

 

[Pete Rose]

250 runs at 115 SR ...... Babar scored 282 at 83 SR as well; though he wasn’t useful at all here - so you never know. Judging cricket with stats only is risky.

yes, difference being Pak RR > Required RR everytime Sharjeel batted, not so with Babar. I would have more confidence in the guy who actually took on a higher standard of bowling vs. the guy who played it well enough.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

The selectors honestly don't get enough heat. They select a terrible squad but don't come into the line of fire nearly as much as they deserve.

Mickey here as all but screamed that stop giving me these 80s style cricketers.

Has also indirectly asked for the cull of seniors. Probably hopes this will be the end of Malik.

Who stopped him to play Haris Sohail ahead of Azhar Hafeez and Malik.. Didnt he drop azhar ali after losing the seris and gave Haris the chance where he scored 2 50s

 

[ask_analyse_act]

malik and hafeez have been trash in: 1 -4 loss to england, 1- 4 loss to australia, 5 - 0 loss to NZ. I dont think we need a bigger sample than that to move on from these guys.

Hafeez has top scorer for pakistan in this series and he didnt play the ODI series in england. And under his captaincy they defeated Aus in Aus after so many years, and he scored 2 sloppy 50s i guess... Im not supporting the stay of Hafeez Malik or Azhar either.. But these seniors has a small sample size to show as their performances to get the seniority tag to stay in the squad as here you may see people thrashing Babar and want him to be dropped though he was the mainstay of the batting for the last 12 months holding on to the 3 spot...

Pak has to build a team with youngsters were avg age should be 29 even if they fail they will get the experience to learn from their mistakes...Fakhar Amin Babar Haris Sarfraz Shadab faheem yamin nawaz Imad hasan amir and add Farhan Maqsood Asghar etc..

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Don't you think he might want them to fail to have some sort of reasoning as to drop them. With the young players performing, he has made his case clear to the selectors as evident by his press conference yesterday. Of course, it will take a long time and MA is flawed because he has never coached an Asian team before but if anything, he is not a fan of bearded power donut geezers. If the average age of the team does not change in 3-5 years and he remains as coach, than you can call me out for being wrong.

one more year to go.... by the English summer this year he will complete his 2 years... Coaches wont get like 5 or 10 years time... maximum 3-4 years even if they are good and achieved a WC win will change teams...

 

[Pete Rose]

Hafeez has top scorer for pakistan in this series and he didnt play the ODI series in england. And under his captaincy they defeated Aus in Aus after so many years, and he scored 2 sloppy 50s i guess... Im not supporting the stay of Hafeez Malik or Azhar either.. But these seniors has a small sample size to show as their performances to get the seniority tag to stay in the squad as here you may see people thrashing Babar and want him to be dropped though he was the mainstay of the batting for the last 12 months holding on to the 3 spot...

Pak has to build a team with youngsters were avg age should be 29 even if they fail they will get the experience to learn from their mistakes...Fakhar Amin Babar Haris Sarfraz Shadab faheem yamin nawaz Imad hasan amir and add Farhan Maqsood Asghar etc..

Yes I get the ‘less rubbish than others’ argument

 

[Markhor]

Arthur has proven to be a reactionary coach unfortunately. He is practically saying the same thing which he said after the England series of 2016. Honestly there is no difference b/w him and Waqar if he will just stick with short term solutions which will hurt us in the long run i.e. the selection of Azhar Ali, persistence with medium pacers, not enough fire power in the batting line up at the top, middle. These are the same lessons one learnt from the English tour in 2016.

To say there are no replacements in domestic cricket is incorrect.

Arthur is thinking of the long game. He has slowly introduced youngsters like Zaman, Shadab, Ashraf and Shinwari whilst learning from his Australia tenure that you cannot push the seniors out too fast. He has also never coached in Asia so doesn't have the stroke to face down the seniors and their lobbies in the media.

I'm sure he wants to reduce the average age of the team but the CT win meant Azhar, Hafeez and Malik had a lifeline and it'd have been impossible to drop them then.

Now they have failed on their own terms so it'll be easier to discard them. Both Arthur and Inzamam were guilty of "sticking with a winning formula" and allowed the CT/SL victories to paper over the cracks. But sacrificing a bilateral series may be worth it if it allows us to clear the deadwood before next year's WC.

You cannot compare to Waqar whose ODI record was a litany of failures with no vision or long term planning at all - just flying by the seat of his pants series by series preaching about need for youngsters while introducing journeymen like Rafatullah Mohmand, Iftikhar Ahmed and Bilal Asif; and showing favouritism to Wahab Riaz, Mo Irfan and Rahat Ali.

 

[Saj]

Some more younger players needed Mickey. Maybe at the expense of the 'perform once in a series' brigade.

 

[Savak]

Arthur is thinking of the long game. He has slowly introduced youngsters like Zaman, Shadab, Ashraf and Shinwari whilst learning from his Australia tenure that you cannot push the seniors out too fast. He has also never coached in Asia so doesn't have the stroke to face down the seniors and their lobbies in the media.

I'm sure he wants to reduce the average age of the team but the CT win meant Azhar, Hafeez and Malik had a lifeline and it'd have been impossible to drop them then.

Now they have failed on their own terms so it'll be easier to discard them. Both Arthur and Inzamam were guilty of "sticking with a winning formula" and allowed the CT/SL victories to paper over the cracks. But sacrificing a bilateral series may be worth it if it allows us to clear the deadwood before next year's WC.

You cannot compare to Waqar whose ODI record was a litany of failures with no vision or long term planning at all - just flying by the seat of his pants series by series preaching about need for youngsters while introducing journeymen like Rafatullah Mohmand, Iftikhar Ahmed and Bilal Asif; and showing favouritism to Wahab Riaz, Mo Irfan and Rahat Ali.

Will be hard to discard Hafeez for this tour, he has a 60 and 81. Plus if Hafeez had been able to bowl, he would have been far more valuable for Pakistan.

Its a double edged sword to completely be senior free now that we are 18 months before the WC in 2019.