"Every time we bring these young players in, they have come in and stood up" : Mickey Arthur

[MenInG]

"Every time we bring these young players in, they have come in and stood up" : Mickey Arthur

Pakistan Head Coach, Mickey Arthur speaking at end of the final ODI

"Its just about ability and without wanting to look at excuses, its about batting in these conditions"

"Our top order just hasnt done the job for this series"

"Haris Sohail came in and gave us a bit of stability"

"He showed us a lot which should go well for him in OD cricket in the future"

"All teams are building towards the WC and we've come off such a extendedly good run that sometimes losing allows for a bit of soul searching, and rejig the team and recheck that you are on the right page"

"With the World Cup coming up in a year's time, it is really important that the next One-Day team we pick is one that we really believe in that can shake the World Cup up"

"This is no discredit to the players in the dressing room because they have tried exceptionally hard"

"But we do need to reassess where we go and make sure we get it right the next time we come out, particularly in foreign conditions"

"I think this has solidified my thinking that we have to get it right"

"Every time we bring these young players in, they have come in and stood up"

"They have done it under pressure and they did it for us in the CT"

"Fakhar Zaman changed the tempo for us in CT by playing fearless cricket"

"The Shadab Khans, Faheem Ashrafs - these are the guys who dont fear anything"

"They play with that freedom and that's where we need to get to"

"When we play in our conditions, we dominate as our guys are comfortable and they play very well there"

"This is for them like playing in the North Pole but you live on the South Pole""Its so different but we got to be better than that"

"Every team in their own conditions is a very good team"

"You judge a team by the way they play away from home"

"NZ played exceptionally well away from home in India"

"Congrats to Mike and Kane as they have a pretty good unit going at the moment"

"The blueprint for us doesnt change"

"Yes when I coached SA, it was a different blueprint to Pakistan"

"Our blueprint that we have with Pakistan was good enough to win us the CT"

"It was good enough to win us 9 ODIs in a row"

"We havent played that well; our guys have come out of a lot of T20 and I am not making excuses here, we havent adapted well enough and played well enough and thats how it is"

"The blueprint for us remains exactly the same but its the execution and the personnel who fit the blueprint is always the challenge"

"At the halfway stage we did think we would win"

"We had 2 partnerships today, and they came for us in the lower order"

"if one of those partnerships comes in the top-order, then we would end up sneaking home as we know the firepower we have at the backend"

"The bounce in NZ is considerably steeper than what our players are used to"

"We have prepared well and we travel around with this big slab that the players use but that prep doesnt replicate [the situation] under pressure"

"Its a different scoring area in NZ; our guys are used to scoring off the front foot or square of the wicket; In NZ, its predominantly off the back foot and if you do play on the front foot, you have to hit straight"

"But, we have players who have played outside Pakistan so that's no excuse whatsoever"

 

[DRsohail]

sensible comments.THe poor guy cant do much with these TTF but clear message to the selectors that give me young blood.

 

[babajee]

Hussain Talat is another one of these players

 

[The cricket enthusiast]

blood in youngsters
thats the only way .

 

[Fahdi]

Pakistan Head Coach, Mickey Arthur speaking at end of the final ODI

"Its just about ability and without wanting to look at excuses, its about batting in these conditions"

"Our top order just hasnt done the job for this series"

"Haris Sohail came in and gave us a bit of stability"

"He showed us a lot which should go well for him in OD cricket in the future"



"I think this has solidified my thinking that we have to get it right"

"Every time we bring these young players in, they have come in and stood up"

"They have done it under pressure and they did it for us in the CT"

"Fakhar Zaman changed the tempo for us in CT by playing fearless cricket"

"The Shadab Khans, Faheem Ashrafs - these are the guys who dont fear anything"

"They play with that freedom and that's where we need to get to"



"We have prepared well and we travel around with this big slab that the players use but that prep doesnt replicate [the situation] under pressure"

"Its a different scoring area in NZ; our guys are used to scoring off the front foot or square of the wicket; In NZ, its predominantly off the back foot and if you do play on the front foot, you have to hit straight"

"But, we have players who have played outside Pakistan so that's no excuse whatsoever"

The selectors honestly don't get enough heat. They select a terrible squad but don't come into the line of fire nearly as much as they deserve.

Mickey here as all but screamed that stop giving me these 80s style cricketers.

Has also indirectly asked for the cull of seniors. Probably hopes this will be the end of Malik.

 

[Madplayer]

The message from him cant get obvious enough. He wants younger players comapared to the ttf brigade in azhar, hafeez and malik. Those are 3 big big changes that Pakistan needs.

 

[ShahidDar08]

Next series will tell us how much he has learned. Hope new players like Hussain Talat, Saad Ali etc gets a chance.

 

[Syed1]

The message from him cant get obvious enough. He wants younger players comapared to the ttf brigade in azhar, hafeez and malik. Those are 3 big big changes that Pakistan needs.

So during selection committee meetings he becomes goonga behra? Reality check no team is selected without the consent of captain and coach.

 

[Rana]

I recon the time is now, drop all of these plus 33 aged players no matter how much experience they offer.

Hafeez is way below par with the rest of the fielders on the field. Malik is a very mediocre player these days

 

[MMHS]

If Ul Haq is made to report Mickey today - next PAK squad will have an official average age of 23-24; so that by WC it reaches 25; including at least 3/4 players from the U19 squad.

People who are crediting Ul Haq for Shadabs & Hasans has ABSOLUTELY no idea of Ul Haq - he took his entire group from PAK team to ICL and now he’ll do that into PAK team. Shukar hai ke MoYo & Mushi are retiered long back & they are not in FC cricket any more.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Finally Arthur has spoken the ultimate truth, he has somewhat made assertion that the seniors Hafeez,Malik, Azam, Amir [Chief selector Inzi favorites] are the real problem for Pakistan. Today the young lot went for runs but were fearless in their approach and brough tus close to victory. I am really impressed with Nawaz, whatever he did Fielding [took a catch[Munro], his throw got a run out [Santner]], bowling [exposed New Zealands inability to play spin and strangulated them for 6-7 overs] and batting [remained positive, hit well and went for the win]. Shadab Khan is now the backbone of our batting. Yamin and Fahim were also amazing. Rumman did his job well.

If Arthur made these changes in the 2nd odi, the results might have been different.

Really proud of the way these 4 youngsters [Nawaz, Yamin, Fahim, Shadab] played today and fough ttill the end, so the loss today is not that tough compared to the 3rd odi where Malik, Azam and Hafeez rolled over [to NZ] embarassing themselves and their team.

Arthur now needs to play a T20 team minus Malik, Azam, and Hafeez. So would love to see his words don't remain mere words.

 

[Madplayer]

So during selection committee meetings he becomes goonga behra? Reality check no team is selected without the consent of captain and coach.

Its obvious he was shut up by the selectors after azhar and hafeez performed in CT. Malik was literally undroppable because of his performances and you know it.

Mickey couldnt have asked inzi to drop them. Now he has made it real obvious with his statements so lets see what Inzi does.

 

[Billa86]

Micky.. Please stop talking about CT and select correct combination for team. If you are complaning about conditions, why not come to NZ 1 month and have camp. What's this blueprint you now refer to, has this blueprint developed during this ODI trashing. Please stop making cunning excuses. Harris should have played in all ODIs. Hafeez and Shoaib should be no where near the team as they are minnow bashers. Opening slot for batting still a major concern. The only good observation during this ODI trashing was fielding.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

So during selection committee meetings he becomes goonga behra? Reality check no team is selected without the consent of captain and coach.

He certainly needs to be blamed as should Sarfraz.
But everyone knows Inzamam has always been a stubborn person, even back when he was a captain. Back then he used to bully the selectors and even overrule Woolmer's decisions. He has made some good selections in the past like Fakhar, Fahim, Junaid, Hasan, Shadab but his mind is still very focused in 90s cricket with seniority culture prevailin.

 

[Madplayer]

He certainly needs to be blamed as should Sarfraz.
But everyone knows Inzamam has always been a stubborn person, even back when he was a captain. Back then he used to bully the selectors and even overrule Woolmer's decisions. He has made some good selections in the past like Fakhar, Fahim, Junaid, Hasan, Shadab but his mind is still very focused in 90s cricket with seniority culture prevailin.

Any time team tours abroad, malik should be dropped. He is not a minnow basher but he is a subcontinent and UAE bully no matter the team he is playing against.

 

[Pakpak]

Finally Arthur has spoken the ultimate truth, he has somewhat made assertion that the seniors Hafeez,Malik, Azam, Amir [Chief selector Inzi favorites] are the real problem for Pakistan. Today the young lot went for runs but were fearless in their approach and brough tus close to victory. I am really impressed with Nawaz, whatever he did Fielding [took a catch[Munro], his throw got a run out [Santner]], bowling [exposed New Zealands inability to play spin and strangulated them for 6-7 overs] and batting [remained positive, hit well and went for the win]. Shadab Khan is now the backbone of our batting. Yamin and Fahim were also amazing. Rumman did his job well.

If Arthur made these changes in the 2nd odi, the results might have been different.

Really proud of the way these 4 youngsters [Nawaz, Yamin, Fahim, Shadab] played today and fough ttill the end, so the loss today is not that tough compared to the 3rd odi where Malik, Azam and Hafeez rolled over [to NZ] embarassing themselves and their team.

Arthur now needs to play a T20 team minus Malik, Azam, and Hafeez. So would love to see his words don't remain mere words.

What are you on about, you made a superb post but ruined it with bold Azam performed very well in England and Australia, this was just a terrible series for him. He has weaknesses but he is young enough to improve on them.

He was taking more aim towards Hafeez, Azhar, Malik than anyone else. Rumman also has been good this game but pretty poor the last few games.

 

[Aami]

Here"s whats gonna happen, having followed Pakistan since the early 80s...

Azhar is gonna be made escape goat no 1 followed closely by Babar, but the 3 stooges will stay.

Even if the dumb and dumber are dropped , they'll start an almighty campaign, like you do, to get back in the team around or just before the World Cup.

Thats just the way it is I'm afraid...

 

[Hamstead_joy]

What are you on about, you made a superb post but ruined it with bold Azam performed very well in England and Australia, this was just a terrible series for him. He has weaknesses but he is young enough to improve on them.

He was taking more aim towards Hafeez, Azhar, Malik than anyone else. Rumman also has been good this game but pretty poor the last few games.

So you are defending a player who has been the problem for our top order, who has literally showed zero mental capacity for growth or adaptation.
If Babar Azam had the knack to improve he would've done well at least in the 5th opportunity he got in this odi series. He and Hafeez are the players who played consistently, were touring the second time.

He remained clueless against bit of bounce, till the last odibut the most important is his mental attitude he is not up to it.

In contrast
Pakistani All rounders in the lower middle order Nawaz, Fahim, Shadab, Yamin showed more improvement in their first games and ability to play modern cricket which we expected from Azam.

Most of all the youngsters did not panic and did not
change their game to a meek surrender unlike Azam.

Arthur said it best they needed one person from top order, just one contribution, one partnership and expected more so from Azam than anyone and he failed repeatedly.

 

[Pakpak]

So you are defending a player who has been the problem for our top order, who has literally showed zero mental capacity for growth or adaptation.
If Babar Azam had the knack to improve he would've done well at least in the 5th opportunity he got in this odi series. He and Hafeez are the players who played consistently, were touring the second time.

He remained clueless against bit of bounce, till the last odibut the most important is his mental attitude he is not up to it.

In contrast
Pakistani All rounders in the lower middle order Nawaz, Fahim, Yamin showed more improvement in their first games and ability to play modern cricket which we expected from Azam.

Most of all the youngsters did not panic and did not
change their game to a meek surrender unlike Azam.

Arthur said it best they needed one person from top order and expected more so from Azam than anyone and he failed repeatedly.

I am not defending anyone. I am merely going by what you posted. You said Arthur has criticised seniors (I can post you your words), Azam is not a senior by age nor by the amount of games he has played nor by the time he has spent in the playing 11. So if Micky, according to you, is criticising seniors then Azam obviously isn't his target.

 

[Raf Pragmatic]

Just get rid of Hafeez. He is embarrassing himself now.
Look at T20. Even England is winning now.
Pakistan always depend on one or two man, rather than team effort.
Team chemistry need to be improved. I think other things are ok.
You have to give credit how New Zealand played.
Kane Williamson and Boult did what Pakistan usually do to win series.
That's the difference.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I think its pretty obvious that Mickey wants a team with the potential and talent of Shadab, Faheem and Hasan. Not Azhar, Hafeez and Malik. Now the hope is that Inzi will give him what he wants but Hafeez and Malik are not easy players to just get rid of.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

I am not defending anyone. I am merely going by what you posted. You said Arthur has criticised seniors (I can post you your words), Azam is not a senior by age nor by the amount of games he has played nor by the time he has spent in the playing 11. So if Micky, according to you, is criticising seniors then Azam obviously isn't his target.

He has played 40 odis and played more then 2+ times the matches compared to the ones who were selected for bowling and outperformed him[ like Shadab, Yamin, Nawaz and Fahim]

He is an Akmal how many years does he need? 7 years like his cousin Umar Akmal? So until then we should just for this 'tallunt' to blossom and waste more of a real but raw talent like Hussain Tallat, Saad Ali and Farhan.

Pakistani cricket is not in such dire situation that we depend on Akmal family to develop our cricket.
The most pathetic thing is to hold off deserving layers to play these 'connected' family members.

We have lost another series cos of playing these MAliks, Hafeezs and Akmals. For me Pakistan team is more important than the personal careers of Akmals.

 

[Syed1]

I remember when Umar Akmal was skying balls to long on or mid wicket match after match his apologists always had the same mantra "he is young, with time on his hand and he is bound to get better"..... well we have seen how much better he got.


The same is happening with his cousin. You don't get better until you try to.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

I think its pretty obvious that Mickey wants a team with the potential and talent of Shadab, Faheem and Hasan. Not Azhar, Hafeez and Malik. Now the hope is that Inzi will give him what he wants but Hafeez and Malik are not easy players to just get rid of.

Hope the press starts asking some tough questions to PCB why chief selector Inzamam is getting away in protecting Maliks, Hafeezs and Akmals and without selecting domestic performers minus PSL.

For 2 years chief selector Inzamam has just protected the senior TTFs, selected only bowlers and his nephew in the odis, who also picks and chooses which match he will play. Umar Amin was drafted so that Imam is avoided to play in NZ against NZ. This is clever and shameful.

 

[Pakpak]

He has played 40 odis and played more then 2+ times the matches compared to the ones who were selected for bowling and outperformed him[ like Shadab, Yamin, Nawaz and Fahim]

He is an Akmal how many years does he need? 7 years like his cousin Umar Akmal? So until then we should just for this 'tallunt' to blossom and waste more of a real but raw talent like Hussain Tallat, Saad Ali and Farhan.

Pakistani cricket is not in such dire situation that we depend on Akmal family to develop our cricket.
The most pathetic thing is to hold off deserving layers to play these 'connected' family members.

We have lost another series cos of playing these MAliks, Hafeezs and Akmals. For me Pakistan team is more important than the personal careers of Akmals.

Senior: player with years worth of experience or atleast a good 100 odd games. It does not matter how many games he has compared to xyz. Otherwise tomorrow if a new spin bowler debuts and Shadab fails will you call him a senior too by claiming oh look Shadab has played double the amount of games when compared to the newbie?

He is not a senior neither by games nor by age hence your earlier post where you claimed Mickey was targeting seniors does not include Azam.

Also its a bit mystifying, you're clearly bashing Azam, correctly if I may add, but you're praising 2 game wonders. Nawaz was hounded on PP after his very poor form in England. Where Babar excelled btw. The ''success'' Fahim and Nawaz have had is pretty much nothing so far and even if you count their recent performances as success then they can tank as easily as Azam has done.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Hope the press starts asking some tough questions to PCB why chief selector Inzamam is getting away in protecting Maliks, Hafeezs and Akmals and without selecting domestic performers minus PSL.

For 2 years chief selector Inzamam has just protected the senior TTFs, selected only bowlers and his nephew in the odis, who also picks and chooses which match he will play. Umar Amin was drafted so that Imam is avoided to play in NZ against NZ. This is clever and shameful.

I definitely agree about protecting the TTFs in fact he played with most of them and obviously he was going to keep an eye on them specially since he doesn't have a great track record with youngsters during his playing days.

 

[Pete Rose]

While I agree with him, I would hope he puts this in to practices in the upcoming t20’s

 

[babajee]

I remember when Umar Akmal was skying balls to long on or mid wicket match after match his apologists always had the same mantra "he is young, with time on his hand and he is bound to get better"..... well we have seen how much better he got.


The same is happening with his cousin. You don't get better until you try to.

I’m sure he will be given the verbal danda. He’s not an untouchable “senior”

 

[MeanAndGreen]

He has played 40 odis and played more then 2+ times the matches compared to the ones who were selected for bowling and outperformed him[ like Shadab, Yamin, Nawaz and Fahim]

He is an Akmal how many years does he need? 7 years like his cousin Umar Akmal? So until then we should just for this 'tallunt' to blossom and waste more of a real but raw talent like Hussain Tallat, Saad Ali and Farhan.

Pakistani cricket is not in such dire situation that we depend on Akmal family to develop our cricket.
The most pathetic thing is to hold off deserving layers to play these 'connected' family members.

We have lost another series cos of playing these MAliks, Hafeezs and Akmals. For me Pakistan team is more important than the personal careers of Akmals.

This is fun...let's drop a 23 year old kid who averaged 58 before this series on the basis of 5 matches and the fact he's related to Umar Akmal. Let's forget he's the highest ranked batter we've had in over 10 years. He's the best batting prospect in Pakistan right now and he's done enough on the international arena to be considered warrant long term investment.

Do people even read what they post sometimes smh. Hussain Talat, Saad Ali and Farhan are the talk of town right now - give them a couple of bad games and the same 'fans' will have knives out for them as well.

This is international cricket not some video game. Even the best of players have lean patches.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Senior: player with years worth of experience or atleast a good 100 odd games. It does not matter how many games he has compared to xyz. Otherwise tomorrow if a new spin bowler debuts and Shadab fails will you call him a senior too by claiming oh look Shadab has played double the amount of games when compared to the newbie?

He is not a senior neither by games nor by age hence your earlier post where you claimed Mickey was targeting seniors does not include Azam.

Also its a bit mystifying, you're clearly bashing Azam, correctly if I may add, but you're praising 2 game wonders. Nawaz was hounded on PP after his very poor form in England. Where Babar excelled btw. The ''success'' Fahim and Nawaz have had is pretty much nothing so far and even if you count their recent performances as success then they can tank as easily as Azam has done.

Please check cricinfo Shadab Khan ODI average is 51.50, more than Babar Azam, Shadab has played 17 matches and was selected as a bowler. You are calling 23 year old [official age of Azam] person a youngster, and you are targeting a 19 year old.
Who has personal bias for a player others can easily assess.

Shadab did 3 jobs where Azam could not manage to do one job. If Shadab did'nt perform with the bowl than he also would've been criticised not defended.The major issue every player in the bottom half has a replacement. Even Azhar Ali had a replacement, why was no one from one down to no.5 middle order have any replacement in the squad, by the chief selector?

There was clear intent by the selector to not let team management drop Malik or Azam. This is the real issue.

 

[MMHS]

While I agree with him, I would hope he puts this in to practices in the upcoming t20’s

Can’t - policy states, selection committee is independent of team management. They can be consulted, but not necessarily should be followed.

Have to change policy to make Ul Haq reports to Arthur, otherwise Imandar admi will always talk sweet and do exactly what in his mind.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

I remember when Umar Akmal was skying balls to long on or mid wicket match after match his apologists always had the same mantra "he is young, with time on his hand and he is bound to get better"..... well we have seen how much better he got.


The same is happening with his cousin. You don't get better until you try to.

So Babar Azam will be a failure because his cousin was? Are we also to assume also that he isn't trying to improve because you say so? Do you train with him? Are you his batting coach?

He's had a real tough few months and there are multiple flaws creeping into his game but surely the fact he is related to Umar can't be the only reason to stop investing in him.

 

[Syed1]

So Babar Azam will be a failure because his cousin was? Are we also to assume also that he isn't trying to improve because you say so? Do you train with him? Are you his batting coach?

He's had a real tough few months and there are multiple flaws creeping into his game but surely the fact he is related to Umar can't be the only reason to stop investing in him.

Ah yes.... the untouchable golden boy who cannot be criticized. Reality check Babar Azam was our worst batsman on tour only slightly better than Azhar Ali who is a number 11. Even Hafeez, Malik and Sarfaraz out-performed him....

but but but he is so stylish how can you criticize him don't you remember his tons against SL/WI

 

[Hamstead_joy]

This is fun...let's drop a 23 year old kid who averaged 58 before this series on the basis of 5 matches and the fact he's related to Umar Akmal. Let's forget he's the highest ranked batter we've had in over 10 years. He's the best batting prospect in Pakistan right now and he's done enough on the international arena to be considered warrant long term investment.

Do people even read what they post sometimes smh. Hussain Talat, Saad Ali and Farhan are the talk of town right now - give them a couple of bad games and the same 'fans' will have knives out for them as well.

This is international cricket not some video game. Even the best of players have lean patches.

Firstly i'mnot against anyone personally adn have supported Babar Azam
Please check first what cricket experts call a lean patch,

Babar averages 6 with a 40 strike rate this is a lean game. Of he was such a batting prospect surely his feet movement, his scoring ability would be on display. The guy makes selfish 100s on a standardised pitches and can't stand on apitch with a hint of extra bounce. This is not a long-term investment.

If he had shown a bit of mental strength and aptitude I would've backed him,he has shown none.

Most are praising and supporting the players who have lost the odi so this is not 'knives' group that is out there to slash and burn for just one game.

 

[Pakpak]

Please check cricinfo Shadab Khan ODI average is 51.50, more than Babar Azam, Shadab has played 17 matches and was selected as a bowler. You are calling 23 year old [official age of Azam] person a youngster, and you are targeting a 19 year old.
Who has personal bias for a player others can easily assess.

Shadab did 3 jobs where Azam could not manage to do one job. If Shadab did'nt perform with the bowl than he also would've been criticised not defended.The major issue every player in the bottom half has a replacement. Even Azhar Ali had a replacement, why was no one from one down to no.5 middle order have any replacement in the squad, by the chief selector?

There was clear intent by the selector to not let team management drop Malik or Azam. This is the real issue.

Wait, what? Shadab is not Babar's competitor, why are you acting as if the latter is blocking Shadab's success?

These has been Shadab's scores so far: 14, 52, 28, 0, 6, 54. Do you want me to bring Babar's scores? When they had the same amount of games Babar averaged in the 80's. I mean I feel ridiculous even comparing them both as I am a massive Shadab fan but you're making me stoop to your level. What do you want, Shadab to play number 3 instead of Babar?


He has only failed in one series and has been really poor so he should get criticism, I doubt you'll hear anyone defend his dire performances. Saying that, he averages 40 against all top teams minus India and NZ and averages 56 against Australia. One bad series does not mean anything, he is also only 22 and can easily improve. The fact he is an ''Akmal'', which he's not, is neither here nor there. He is their cousin and it means nothing. I hate half my cousins. Otherwise all these newbies you're praising, one of which is Nawaz and who has shown at times he is very poor with bat and ball, they'll be booted out using your ''kick him out after one poor series'' method. And we won't have anyone who lasts even 50 games.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Wait, what? Shadab is not Babar's competitor, why are you acting as if the latter is blocking Shadab's success?

These has been Shadab's scores so far: 14, 52, 28, 0, 6, 54. Do you want me to bring Babar's scores? When they had the same amount of games Babar averaged in the 80's. I mean I feel ridiculous even comparing them both as I am a massive Shadab fan but you're making me stoop to your level. What do you want, Shadab to play number 3 instead of Babar?


He has only failed in one series and has been really poor so he should get criticism, I doubt you'll hear anyone defend his dire performances. Saying that, he averages 40 against all top teams minus India and NZ and averages 56 against Australia. One bad series does not mean anything, he is also only 22 and can easily improve. The fact he is an ''Akmal'', which he's not, is neither here nor there. He is their cousin and it means nothing. I hate half my cousins. Otherwise all these newbies you're praising, one of which is Nawaz and who has shown at times he is very poor with bat and ball, they'll be booted out using your ''kick him out after one poor series'' method. And we won't have anyone who lasts even 50 games.

Dont waste your time. Some people simply watch cricket on cricinfo.

 

[Syed1]

Dont waste your time. Some people simply watch cricket on cricinfo.

Maybe you should watch on cricinfo too and you will see Bobby's exploits in this series.

 

[Syed1]

Some people support individual players rather than the team

 

[Imr4n_Khan]

I think more power should be given to coach and the captain to select their squad then be held more accountable for the performance. I don't have any faith in Inzi to have the courage or the mindset to drop Hafeez, Malik and Azhar to bring in new blood. There is only so much a coach can do with TTFs with limited abilities.

As Mickey pointed out we don't have much time left until the WC and in the next series we need to pick a squad that we believe will win us the WC. We need to stick with that squad until the WC. I hope that we drop TTFs and bring in young talent and we also need to boost up our bowling. Amir is not what he used to be and has been below average since his return to cricket.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Firstly i'mnot against anyone personally adn have supported Babar Azam
Please check first what cricket experts call a lean patch,

Babar averages 6 with a 40 strike rate this is a lean game. Of he was such a batting prospect surely his feet movement, his scoring ability would be on display. The guy makes selfish 100s on a standardised pitches and can't stand on apitch with a hint of extra bounce. This is not a long-term investment.

If he had shown a bit of mental strength and aptitude I would've backed him,he has shown none.

Most are praising and supporting the players who have lost the odi so this is not 'knives' group that is out there to slash and burn for just one game.

Should Kohli have been dropped after his series at home against Aus last year?

Let's not forget Babar Azam averaged 60 in AUS and scored 83, 62 last time he came to NZL. As I said before, he's shown enough potential in the last 2 years (where he's averaged 58 and ranked No.4) to warrant long term investment. We simply don't have better options.

 

[Pakpak]

Dont waste your time. Some people simply watch cricket on cricinfo.

You're right. I can agree that Babar should have performed better but calling him a senior in the same mould as Hafeez and Malik and then arguing with me that he is a senior...a 22 year old with 40 games is a senior in this guy's book.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Some people support individual players rather than the team

I support the Pakistan cricket team. You should try it .

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Wait, what? Shadab is not Babar's competitor, why are you acting as if the latter is blocking Shadab's success?

These has been Shadab's scores so far: 14, 52, 28, 0, 6, 54. Do you want me to bring Babar's scores? When they had the same amount of games Babar averaged in the 80's. I mean I feel ridiculous even comparing them both as I am a massive Shadab fan but you're making me stoop to your level. What do you want, Shadab to play number 3 instead of Babar?


He has only failed in one series and has been really poor so he should get criticism, I doubt you'll hear anyone defend his dire performances. Saying that, he averages 40 against all top teams minus India and NZ and averages 56 against Australia. One bad series does not mean anything, he is also only 22 and can easily improve. The fact he is an ''Akmal'', which he's not, is neither here nor there. He is their cousin and it means nothing. I hate half my cousins. Otherwise all these newbies you're praising, one of which is Nawaz and who has shown at times he is very poor with bat and ball, they'll be booted out using your ''kick him out after one poor series'' method. And we won't have anyone who lasts even 50 games.

Please bring some , for me Pakistan team is mre important than Babar Azam or Shadab, can't school you or go down to a level in turn to the kind of naivete and judge your personal assessment and bias. Tc

 

[Hamstead_joy]

I support the Pakistan cricket team. You should try it .

I think you support Babar azam more than the Pakistan team.

 

[MMHS]

Firstly i'mnot against anyone personally adn have supported Babar Azam
Please check first what cricket experts call a lean patch,

Babar averages 6 with a 40 strike rate this is a lean game. Of he was such a batting prospect surely his feet movement, his scoring ability would be on display. The guy makes selfish 100s on a standardised pitches and can't stand on apitch with a hint of extra bounce. This is not a long-term investment.

If he had shown a bit of mental strength and aptitude I would've backed him,he has shown none.

Most are praising and supporting the players who have lost the odi so this is not 'knives' group that is out there to slash and burn for just one game.

He is young, time is in his side - this is his first failure against a very good team. Don’t think anyone is praising his effort, but dropping him isn’t the solution.

After every failure, players consult with coaching staf and work on their weakness - there is a big probability that he’ll fix few things and come back as a better player. You can expect that from an U25 batsman who still averages 50+ and holds few batting records. That won’t happen for a 40 years old and if given chance, Ul Haq will do exactly the same.

At least for the sake of blocking one spot from MoHa, Malik, Azhar, Kamran - Babar has to be there. Otherwise Ul Haq will send a squad of average age 35 in WC

 

[Pakpak]

Please bring some , for me Pakistan team is mre important than Babar Azam or Shadab, can't school you or go down to a level in turn to the kind of naivete and judge your personal assessment and bias. Tc

Yes, you're bashing and singling out players and comparing them as compared to me who is criticising not only Babar but Hafeez and Malik.

And then you're telling me players are more important to me than the team. You must have woken up from the Nawaz Sharif logic school of thought.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Please bring some , for me Pakistan team is mre important than Babar Azam or Shadab, can't school you or go down to a level in turn to the kind of naivete and judge your personal assessment and bias. Tc

The thing is mate, if people like you were in charge of the PAK cricket team, it would plummet to depths even below No.9. Your willing to drop key players on the basis of 3-4 innings if they don't score runs - imagine if PAK dropped Hasan after his first few ODIs or if Fakhar was dropped after his lean series against SL. I understand you expect high standards but keep them realistic.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Maybe you should watch on cricinfo too and you will see Bobby's exploits in this series.

Alright lets drop him after 5 games.

Who are you replacing him with? And if he doesn't score in 5 games, are you going to drop them too?

 

[Hamstead_joy]

The thing is mate, if people like you were in charge of the PAK cricket team, it would plummet to depths even below No.9. Your willing to drop key players on the basis of 3-4 innings if they don't score runs - imagine if PAK dropped Hasan after his first few ODIs or if Fakhar was dropped after his lean series against SL. I understand you expect high standards but keep them realistic.

Heheheh please check Pakistan hovered around no.8 which Babar Azam, Hafeez, Malik were a part of in 2016/17.

Have never seen more desperate fandom that are trying going as low and condescending to favor a Babar Azam This is making me more wary of Azam[politically connected] than convincing me. This isn ot Pakistani talk shows where hitting below the belt and insulting others opinion in joking manner will help your cause.

 

[Syed1]

Babar Azam in this series average of 6.20 at strike rate of 40..... but untouchable golden boy cannot be criticized. You hate Pakistan team if you criticize Babar Azam. Just sing his praises and go watch his youtube videos on him smashing SL/WI. All hail Bobby...


Dabbay mein dabba
Dabbay mein cake

Humara Bobby
Lakhon mein aek

 

[Syed1]

Alright lets drop him after 5 games.

Who are you replacing him with? And if he doesn't score in 5 games, are you going to drop them too?

No is asking him to be dropped, but he is not immune from criticism.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

If that is what you got from my posts, then son you have serious comprehension issues. Maybe your incessant need to defend Babar Azam clouded your judgement and you didn't understand what I meant.

Isn't that what you had written? Or am I on a different forum? Where is my incessant need to defend Azam? He has been arguably the best ODI bat in the last 2 years of the team I support. I've watched the likes of Shehzad, Azhar, Hafeez, Kamran bat in the top order for far too long and I'm sorry if I feel the need to defend a 23 year old who averages above 50, especially when the argument against his exclusion is the fact he is related to Umar Akmal.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Heheheh please check Pakistan hovered around no.8 which Babar Azam, Hafeez, Malik were a part of in 2016/17.

Have never seen more desperate fandom that are trying going as low and condescending to favor a Babar Azam This is making me more wary of Azam[politically connected] than convincing me. This isn ot Pakistani talk shows where hitting below the belt and insulting others opinion in joking manner will help your cause.

You talk of insulting other opinion under the belt yet you blatantly question my support of the PAK cricket team?

You haven't offered any constructive criticism and no replacements. I have no infatuation with Azam but I'm simply sick of the fickle nature of our fans. A series later people ask Hasan, Shadab, Fakhar, or someone else to be dropped. I for one believe Azam should be dropped in tests, and if he continues to fail in ODIs he should also be dropped - this is a national side after all. But I simply find it ridiculous that you expect the team management to drop him on the basis of a few ODIs. If we started dropping players on the basis of a few games, it would become a circus - THATS my point.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Rest assured nothing will change as we have been hearing all this from a very long time.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

No is asking him to be dropped, but he is not immune from criticism.

Have I said he is immune from criticism? If you are implying that from my posts you have the wrong message.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

PErsonally if someone ask me every player in this Pakistan team should have a replacement and should fight their way to keep themselves in the team that is how teams are built, which Arthur and Sarfaraz are trying to do but Inzamam has other plans.

Shadab, Hasan Ali, Fahim I personally like them but want a selector who places a replacement for every player in the side including these young prospects. Also they need to look after these guys and keep their focus to cricket as there is too much money and too many rubbish leagues going on. They can be spoiled easily and we have a long list of wasted talents who brag now as experts and have wasted most of their career in non-cricketing activities.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

PErsonally if someone ask me every player in this Pakistan team should have a replacement and should fight their way to keep themselves in the team that is how teams are built, which Arthur and Sarfaraz are trying to do but Inzamam has other plans.

Shadab, Hasan Ali, Fahim I personally like them but want a selector who places a replacement for every player in the side including these young prospects. Also they need to look after these guys and keep their focus to cricket as there is too much money and too many rubbish leagues going on. They can be spoiled easily and we have a long list of wasted talents who brag now as experts and have wasted most of their career in non-cricketing activities.

Nobody is indispensable.

However nobody also deserves to be dropped on the basis of a few ODIs.

 

[Syed1]

PErsonally if someone ask me every player in this Pakistan team should have a replacement and should fight their way to keep themselves in the team that is how teams are built, which Arthur and Sarfaraz are trying to do but Inzamam has other plans.

Shadab, Hasan Ali, Fahim I personally like them but want a selector who places a replacement for every player in the side including these young prospects. Also they need to look after these guys and keep their focus to cricket as there is too much money and too many rubbish leagues going on. They can be spoiled easily and we have a long list of wasted talents who brag now as experts and have wasted most of their career in non-cricketing activities.

Bhai what are you talking about. Our beautiful selection committee didn't even send a fourth pacer on a long tour on the other side of the world. No backup keeper, only one backup middle order batsman, and one nepotistic bhanja who would struggle to get into PSL sides but makes it to the national side. Inzi was and is corrupt and incompetent.

 

[Pakpak]

PErsonally if someone ask me every player in this Pakistan team should have a replacement and should fight their way to keep themselves in the team that is how teams are built, which Arthur and Sarfaraz are trying to do but Inzamam has other plans.

Shadab, Hasan Ali, Fahim I personally like them but want a selector who places a replacement for every player in the side including these young prospects. Also they need to look after these guys and keep their focus to cricket as there is too much money and too many rubbish leagues going on. They can be spoiled easily and we have a long list of wasted talents who brag now as experts and have wasted most of their career in non-cricketing activities.

Finally a sensible post. But like the poster above me said, you have to give players a few series. If you started dropping people after one bad series we won't have a team left.

 

[Pete Rose]

Can’t - policy states, selection committee is independent of team management. They can be consulted, but not necessarily should be followed.

Have to change policy to make Ul Haq reports to Arthur, otherwise Imandar admi will always talk sweet and do exactly what in his mind.

The t20 squad is already there. all he needs is to select a team from it that excludes hafeez, malik, shehzad etc

 

[Markhor]

Hopefully Mickey and Inzamam realise their error of "sticking with a winning combination" no matter what. The sainted seniors Azhar, Malik and Hafeez will have their day in a one-off tournament game or beating up on SL and WI but sooner than later they'll revert to their usual mediocrity against good teams.

The win against SL was no indication of how we'd perform in NZ - even Zimbabwe are beating SL with regularity. The CT should've been the seniors' last hurrah and opportunity to go out on a high - instead they're selfishly stretching their careers. If they don't want to go, then Arthur needs to make the decision for them.

To be fair, its not just the seniors who are underperforming. Babar and Amir need a rocket up their backside whilst Raees should play T20s only. Yamin is not good enough to take the new ball and I wouldn't play him as a proper bat as there's better options than him. I'd rather play a specialist spinner ahead of Nawaz too.

Unfortunately we have YET another long scheduling gap until our next ODI series to make the necessary changes.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

These has been Shadab's scores so far: 14, 52, 28, 0, 6, 54. Do you want me to bring Babar's scores?

Apart from the nonsensical post u posted these scores, now I'll show you how Shadab Khan[selected as a bowler] became the backbone of our batting lineup in this team.

Firstly don't know from where you got 14 its actually 24 against NZ Board XI
When Shadab scored 52 Pakistan scored 246
When Shadab scored 58 Pakistan scored 256 today.
When Shadab scored 0 Pakistan score was 74.

Now Babar Azam scored 6,0,10,8,3,10 and he is not a no. 7 or no.8 he is a one down 50 average batsman. Twice he went into double figres and could'nt convert to atleast a 20 which the worse 50 average player s playing in foreign conditions would do. He dropped the ball when team was in dire straits, as he played at least 4-5 overs of dot balls whenever he made double figures which added more pressure to the incoming batsman. He did'nt even play the modern cricket that was asked of him.

 

[Sher Khan]

Where did Saad Nasim go? We need powerhitting batsmen down the order. I know his domestic stats aren't good but he seemed a clutch player who did well in his international performances.

 

[Pakpak]

Apart from the nonsensical post u posted these scores, now I'll show you how Shadab Khan[selected as a bowler] became the backbone of our batting lineup in this team.

Firstly don't know from where you got 14 its actually 24 against NZ Board XI
When Shadab scored 52 Pakistan scored 246
When Shadab scored 58 Pakistan scored 256 today.
When Shadab scored 0 Pakistan score was 74.

Now Babar Azam scored 6,0,10,8,3,10 and he is not a no. 7 or no.8 he is a one down 50 average batsman. Twice he went into double figres and could'nt convert to atleast a 20 which the worse 50 average player s playing in foreign conditions would do. He dropped the ball when team was in dire straits, as he played at least 4-5 overs of dot balls whenever he made double figures which added more pressure to the incoming batsman. He did'nt even play the modern cricket that was asked of him.

For one series, yeah.

All the other players you were waxing lyrics about ie Fakhar, Nawaz have had some poor series as well. Nawaz was a disaster in England and Fakhar was very poor against Sri Lanka, never mind against a top side as NZ. Yet I don't see you asking for their removal.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Bhai what are you talking about. Our beautiful selection committee didn't even send a fourth pacer on a long tour on the other side of the world. No backup keeper, only one backup middle order batsman, and one nepotistic bhanja who would struggle to get into PSL sides but makes it to the national side. Inzi was and is corrupt and incompetent.

Thats the whole issue T20 squad was announced after the second odi, no new bowl bowler, no middle order replacements. Why was it done, to shield the seniors including Amir.

Any other even a amateur selector would have sent an opening bowling option like Irfan or Mir Hamza who would've use the NZ conditions bounced the ball or seamed it. Selectors completely ignored it.

I'm seeing Junaid Khan's s twitter account he is training since Jan 1 for PSL, they neither assessed or checked on him again, as T20 is starting on 22 Jan.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

For one series, yeah.

All the other players you were waxing lyrics about ie Fakhar, Nawaz have had some poor series as well. Nawaz was a disaster in England and Fakhar was very poor against Sri Lanka, never mind against a top side as NZ. Yet I don't see you asking for their removal.

Ok,
if you are comparing spinner all rounder who bats at no.6 -7 with Babar Azam shows your own expectation from Azam.
what was Babar Azam performance in the series in England 2016 where according to you Nawaz failed?

Babar Azam average 24 batting at no.3, and Nawaz 'the failure' averages 22 including a better strike rate.

At that time I also supported Babar should be continued and he did whereas Nawaz was thrown out who performed better than Babar v Ireland, where he scored a 57.

I admit I watched the Pakistan bowling innings at midnight today just for Nawaz bowling and fielding. He is a 3-in-1, best contributor in the team but his performances are good as he was made to wait and cherish the opportunity which Azam has not faced. If Babar Azam is dropped it could be a blessing in disguise and will alsopush him to improve hi game and return to the side a better player. Players are dropped so that they get the message, that they are not indispensable for the team

 

[Pakpak]

Ok,
if you are comparing spinner all rounder who bats at no.6 -7 with Babar Azam shows your own expectation from Azam.
what was Babar Azam performance in the series in England 2016 where according to you Nawaz failed?

Babar Azam average 24 batting at no.3, and Nawaz 'the failure' averages 22 including a better strike rate.

At that time I also supported Babar should be continued and he did whereas Nawaz was thrown out who performed better than Babar v Ireland, where he scored a 57.

I admit I watched the Pakistan bowling innings at midnight today just for Nawaz bowling and fielding. He is a 3-in-1, best contributor in the team but his performances are good as he was made to wait and cherish the opportunity which Azam has not faced. If Babar Azam is dropped it could be a blessing in disguise and will also spush him to imporve hi sgmame and return to the side a better player. Players are dropped so that they get the message, that they are not indispensable for the team

Thats the whole issue T20 squad was announced after the second odi, no new bowl bowler, no middle order replacements. Why was it done, to shield the seniors including Amir.

Any other even a amateur selector would have sent an opening bowling option like Irfan or Mir Hamza who would've use the NZ conditions bounced the ball or seamed it. Selectors completely ignored it.

I'm seeing Junaid Khan's s twitter account he is training since Jan 1 for PSL, they neither assessed or checked on him again, as T20 is starting on 22 Jan.

Your posts are full of nonsense, in the post above you're clamouring for Junaid. Do you know how many series he has failed in? But it doesn't mean anything, as he has very good talent and good players have ups and downs. You also think the same as me, hence why you're backing Fakhar, Junaid, Nawaz, players who've had some shoddy series. Your logic only fails when you have to apply it to Babar Azam.

Throw him out if he fails in more series after this. But to throw someone out who's been in great form after one bad series you have to be on a massive wind-up. Which you seem to be as you're supporting both Fakhar and Nawaz even though the former failed in the last series and the latter failed miserably in the last tour to England.

I'll do you a favor, and put you on ignore. That way I won't have to see rubbish nonsense in my PP feed.

 

[Hamstead_joy]

Your posts are full of nonsense, in the post above you're clamouring for Junaid. Do you know how many series he has failed in? But it doesn't mean anything, as he has very good talent and good players have ups and downs. You also think the same as me, hence why you're backing Fakhar, Junaid, Nawaz, players who've had some shoddy series. Your logic only fails when you have to apply it to Babar Azam.

Throw him out if he fails in more series after this. But to throw someone out who's been in great form after one bad series you have to be on a massive wind-up. Which you seem to be as you're supporting both Fakhar and Nawaz even though the former failed in the last series and the latter failed miserably in the last tour to England.

I'll do you a favor, and put you on ignore. That way I won't have to see rubbish nonsense in my PP feed.

Thanx I also agree but one thing at least I don't fudge figures of players I talk about I don't post wrong figures of players like Shadab Khan and post their 24 as 14 or go personal against people.

 

[Pakpak]

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[Hamstead_joy]

Slow Claps for [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] and [MENTION=134905]MeanAndGreen[/MENTION]

for their awesome defense of TTFs esp. Babar Azam.

 

[coy0607]

typical comments.. I think we heard very similar stuff after the SL tests

no real lessons learned - I'm sure we'll see no improvements in the next ODI series

 

[LegbreakGoogly]

I think more power should be given to coach and the captain to select their squad then be held more accountable for the performance. I don't have any faith in Inzi to have the courage or the mindset to drop Hafeez, Malik and Azhar to bring in new blood. There is only so much a coach can do with TTFs with limited abilities.

As Mickey pointed out we don't have much time left until the WC and in the next series we need to pick a squad that we believe will win us the WC. We need to stick with that squad until the WC. I hope that we drop TTFs and bring in young talent and we also need to boost up our bowling. Amir is not what he used to be and has been below average since his return to cricket.

You are right make captain and coach selector for 2-3 series and then see what happens???

 

[QalandarFan]

Hopefully this is the end of Malik, Hafeez, Azhar (in ODI’s) for good. But even after a 5-0 whitewash I doubt it.

 

[QalandarFan]

typical comments.. I think we heard very similar stuff after the SL tests

no real lessons learned - I'm sure we'll see no improvements in the next ODI series

Have we played a test since the SL test series?

 

[ask_analyse_act]

He talks like this but selects hafeez in all 5 games who will not score runs, even if he scores it will be with 60% dot balls. Moreover hafeez and shehzad are selected for T20s too. Let’s see if he can drop Malik and hafeez for the t20.

 

[A-1]

Think mickey is tired of the selectors, No more read between the lines stuff, straight up fire from mickey.

Good on him.

Inzi be like

 

[Imr4n_Khan]

You are right make captain and coach selector for 2-3 series and then see what happens???

Not to make them the selectors but they should have majority of the say when it comes to selecting a team. Quite often then not we indirectly hear from coach/captain that we didn't do well because we didn't get the players we wanted or have the right team balance/selection. By giving majority of the power to coach and the captain then they can't point fingers and honestly we will do a lot better because the coach/captain are not always on the same boat with the selectors. Pakistani selectors are quite biased and we can see that Mikey is trying to change that and he doesn't want these TTFs.

 

[Sherlock]

Should mean something then...but instead we'll be collared with Malik/Hafeez/Azhar for the foreseeable furture.

 

[MMHS]

The t20 squad is already there. all he needs is to select a team from it that excludes hafeez, malik, shehzad etc

Ul Haq has sent a squad that offers firing squad or gas chember or electric chair. Marna zarur, but you are suggesting that electric chair might be less painful & quick.

 

[Pete Rose]

Ul Haq has sent a squad that offers firing squad or gas chember or electric chair. Marna zarur, but you are suggesting that electric chair might be less painful & quick.

it's not that tough tbh. squad of 15 - take out hafeez, malik, shehzad.
and you can still play:
fakhar
amin (will fail, but any how lets get it out of the system so that he can retire and do commentary)
babar (no a t20 player...but here we are)
haris (probably not a t20 player but here are)
sarfi (definitely not a t20 player..but better him rather than hafeez/malik)
shadab
nawaz
ashraf
yamin
aamir
hasan ali

theoretically very light on batting, but cant do worse.