Expectation of Pakistani fans

[shariqnoor]

Allow me to share a very fine quote regarding expectations:

"Expectations are premeditated resentments."

I feel this quote beautifully summarizes the relationship between the Pakistan cricket team and its fans. The cricket team isn't skilled enough to live up to the fans expectations and the fans resent the cricket team for failing to live up to them.

I wanted to particularly highlight the expectations aspect of our society because I feel this is something that is conveniently ignored in our part of the world. If someone in our society talks about lowering expectations, often the reply back is "you're not ambitious". Culturally we have synonymized expectations with ambitions which is a terrible thing to do. And I use the word culturally because it has become a cultural issue.

Coming back to the cricket team, we as fans need to embrace reality rather than deflect from it by using buzzwords like ambition, and if I'm allowed to take some words from Shoaib Akhtar, daleri and jazba. The unfortunate reality of Pakistan cricket over the past 10 years or so is that the country is not producing quality cricketers barring a few. You cannot pump ambition, jazba, daleri into guys and expect outstanding results when the underlying base of being skilled enough to succeed at the international level with regards to batting and bowling is hollow. It's not going to happen no matter how much you insist it would.

There is literally no cricketing country on Earth that gets so much scrutiny on their players as Pakistan does. One bad match and the knives are out on the players by the fans as well as ex-cricketers. This puts the team under immense mental pressure even before they have stepped out on the field. England have lost multiple matches to the likes of Ireland, Netherlands and Scotland. Scotland posted 371 against England in an ODI. Australia have shelled a Test match to Bangladesh and lost to Zimbabwe recently. Never have their fans or media or ex-cricketers lashed out in public on those results. They take it in their strides and move on. It's only Pakistan where fans and ex-cricketers lambast the team if they lose regardless of the opposition. Imagine a Pakistani team conceding 371 against Netherlands. It would be the Day of Judgment in Pakistan.The pressure this creates on the team is unimaginable. I mentioned in some other thread how this pressure of not being allowed to fail ensures that Pakistan go in with their absolute full strength team against minnow every game which in turn hinders the ability to create a pool of international players.

The recent criticism of Babar-Rizwan as an opening pair is a classic case of Pakistan fans and ex-cricketers raising their expectations to stratospheric levels because they see Buttler, Warner, Rohit as openers in other teams. The truth is, Babar and Rizwan are the best that Pakistan has to offer. Yes, their strike-rates can be a problem, especially when batting first, but that is something that can be improved. Suggesting to remove them altogether as openers is a mindset of ripping things out and starting from scratch rather than trying to improve upon the existing. This habit of ours that the guy sitting on the bench is somehow the answer to our ills is what breeds expectations which ultimately leads to resentments.

As much as the onus of delivering success on the field rests with the players, a lot also lies at the feet of the fans to temper their expectations and align it with the skill levels of the team at hand. Allow the team to fail.

 

[Farabi]

Allow me to share a very fine quote regarding expectations:

"Expectations are premeditated resentments."

I feel this quote beautifully summarizes the relationship between the Pakistan cricket team and its fans. The cricket team isn't skilled enough to live up to the fans expectations and the fans resent the cricket team for failing to live up to them.

I wanted to particularly highlight the expectations aspect of our society because I feel this is something that is conveniently ignored in our part of the world. If someone in our society talks about lowering expectations, often the reply back is "you're not ambitious". Culturally we have synonymized expectations with ambitions which is a terrible thing to do. And I use the word culturally because it has become a cultural issue.

Coming back to the cricket team, we as fans need to embrace reality rather than deflect from it by using buzzwords like ambition, and if I'm allowed to take some words from Shoaib Akhtar, daleri and jazba. The unfortunate reality of Pakistan cricket over the past 10 years or so is that the country is not producing quality cricketers barring a few. You cannot pump ambition, jazba, daleri into guys and expect outstanding results when the underlying base of being skilled enough to succeed at the international level with regards to batting and bowling is hollow. It's not going to happen no matter how much you insist it would.

There is literally no cricketing country on Earth that gets so much scrutiny on their players as Pakistan does. One bad match and the knives are out on the players by the fans as well as ex-cricketers. This puts the team under immense mental pressure even before they have stepped out on the field. England have lost multiple matches to the likes of Ireland, Netherlands and Scotland. Scotland posted 371 against England in an ODI. Australia have shelled a Test match to Bangladesh and lost to Zimbabwe recently. Never have their fans or media or ex-cricketers lashed out in public on those results. They take it in their strides and move on. It's only Pakistan where fans and ex-cricketers lambast the team if they lose regardless of the opposition. Imagine a Pakistani team conceding 371 against Netherlands. It would be the Day of Judgment in Pakistan.The pressure this creates on the team is unimaginable. I mentioned in some other thread how this pressure of not being allowed to fail ensures that Pakistan go in with their absolute full strength team against minnow every game which in turn hinders the ability to create a pool of international players.

The recent criticism of Babar-Rizwan as an opening pair is a classic case of Pakistan fans and ex-cricketers raising their expectations to stratospheric levels because they see Buttler, Warner, Rohit as openers in other teams. The truth is, Babar and Rizwan are the best that Pakistan has to offer. Yes, their strike-rates can be a problem, especially when batting first, but that is something that can be improved. Suggesting to remove them altogether as openers is a mindset of ripping things out and starting from scratch rather than trying to improve upon the existing. This habit of ours that the guy sitting on the bench is somehow the answer to our ills is what breeds expectations which ultimately leads to resentments.

As much as the onus of delivering success on the field rests with the players, a lot also lies at the feet of the fans to temper their expectations and align it with the skill levels of the team at hand. Allow the team to fail.

It’s not true that other teams don’t get lambasted. All professionals athletes are under immense scrutiny and burden of expectations. Aus was absolutely lambasted for losing to Zimbabwe. Go and read why Aussie players had a mutiny vs Justin Langer… let me save you time: expectations.

The point is, you can’t change the fans. Ultimately, critics will be there.
Pak can field a team at least as much quality as NZ but we don’t, even though cricket is literally the only game played in Pak.
So PCB needs to raise their game, Pak players absolutely need to raise their game! They should absolutely try new players vs minnows, Ppers always asking for it!

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I don't mind Babar Rizwan opening.

But Pakistan is so scared of finding someone else "who might be able to open" that they won't even rest them for 2 or 3 games to give a chance to the middle order.

If they are supremely good, they should not fear "being upstaged by anyone" and sit out.

But they won't.

 

[Savak]

The OP needs to be corrected. Indian, Australian, English Cricket team gets scrutinized inside out whenever they fail especially over an extended period of time and in big series ie the Ashes or the World Cup.

Look at the pressure and scrutiny Virat Kohli has faced for his failures in the past 3 years.

Pakistani Nation is no different. Players can be or may not be good enough, they will get criticized if they don't deliver and that criticism is necessary to give them a much bedded kick on the back side to get their act together.

 

[Mamoon]

Brilliant post by the best poster on the forum in my opinion.

As I have said numerous times, the real problem is not the players, the team management or the PCB.

The real problem is the expectations of the fans. There is a huge gap between the expectations of the fans and the capacity of Pakistan cricket to meet those expectations.

Pakistani fans are by the far the most delusional fans in the game. They are hopeless romantics and the romanticism and myths associated with Pakistan cricket mean nothing.

They have been fed lies like Pakistan has the most natural talent, the whole world is out to get us, Pakistan is the most entertaining team etc.

Post 1992 World Cup, which was the worst thing that happened to Pakistan cricket, Pakistani fans starting romanticizing inconsistency and mediocrity and repackaged it as unpredictability.

The reality is that Pakistan is a mediocre, mentally weak cricketing nation and that has been true throughout the course of history barring a few periods every now and then where Pakistan consistently played like a top team.

You study the history of Pakistan cricket and perhaps the 1985-1991 period is the only one in Pakistan’s history where you would see consistent performances that you would expect a top team to produce.

To be a top, consistent team you don’t need any magic formula or any cornered tigers speech. You need a good captain and 3-4 world class players with several quality but below world class players to complement them.

You look at the history of Pakistan cricket and how many teams do you see that fit the above criteria? Probably none except the period where Imran was captain and Pakistan had a core of him, Wasim, Waqar, Miandad, Qadir, Saleem Malik etc.


Most other Pakistan teams had 1-2 world class players at max and then a bunch of overrated average players who were also mentally weak and quite often involved in shady practices.

Pakistan was never meant to be a top team. Not every sporting team is meant to be great. They just don’t have it in them and neither do Pakistan.

Pakistan is like Sri Lanka, post mid 1990s West Indies etc. It will punch above and below its weight and over a long period of time, you will see average results and that what you get with Pakistan. At its max potential, Pakistan is a 5th/6th ranked side across all formats.

It might go up and down for small periods, but this is where you will find Pakistan most of the time.

However, being a middling sporting team is not wrong. Some of the most passionately followed teams in the world are not very successful or the best. Their fans know that their team will probably never be the best, but that doesn’t stop them from supporting them.

Pakistan does not have the talent, the skill, the mindset and the understanding of cricket to produce an elite team. It never had and never will.

Fast forward 30 years and you will see the same problems and same discussions, and deluded fans overhyping middling players and then act surprised when those deluded players don’t meet their unrealistic expectations.

Pakistani fans need to learn to enjoy the game. Let the team dictate your expectations; don’t let your expectations dictate the team. If you expect a fish to fly your expectations are the problem, not the fish’s inability to fly.

 

[Farabi]

Brilliant post by the best poster on the forum in my opinion.

As I have said numerous times, the real problem is not the players, the team management or the PCB.

The real problem is the expectations of the fans. There is a huge gap between the expectations of the fans and the capacity of Pakistan cricket to meet those expectations.

Pakistani fans are by the far the most delusional fans in the game. They are hopeless romantics and the romanticism and myths associated with Pakistan cricket mean nothing.

They have been fed lies like Pakistan has the most natural talent, the whole world is out to get us, Pakistan is the most entertaining team etc.

Post 1992 World Cup, which was the worst thing that happened to Pakistan cricket, Pakistani fans starting romanticizing inconsistency and mediocrity and repackaged it as unpredictability.

The reality is that Pakistan is a mediocre, mentally weak cricketing nation and that has been true throughout the course of history barring a few periods every now and then where Pakistan consistently played like a top team.

You study the history of Pakistan cricket and perhaps the 1985-1991 period is the only one in Pakistan’s history where you would see consistent performances that you would expect a top team to produce.

To be a top, consistent team you don’t need any magic formula or any cornered tigers speech. You need a good captain and 3-4 world class players with several quality but below world class players to complement them.

You look at the history of Pakistan cricket and how many teams do you see that fit the above criteria? Probably none except the period where Imran was captain and Pakistan had a core of him, Wasim, Waqar, Miandad, Qadir, Saleem Malik etc.


Most other Pakistan teams had 1-2 world class players at max and then a bunch of overrated average players who were also mentally weak and quite often involved in shady practices.

Pakistan was never meant to be a top team. Not every sporting team is meant to be great. They just don’t have it in them and neither do Pakistan.

Pakistan is like Sri Lanka, post mid 1990s West Indies etc. It will punch above and below its weight and over a long period of time, you will see average results and that what you get with Pakistan. At its max potential, Pakistan is a 5th/6th ranked side across all formats.

It might go up and down for small periods, but this is where you will find Pakistan most of the time.

However, being a middling sporting team is not wrong. Some of the most passionately followed teams in the world are not very successful or the best. Their fans know that their team will probably never be the best, but that doesn’t stop them from supporting them.

Pakistan does not have the talent, the skill, the mindset and the understanding of cricket to produce an elite team. It never had and never will.

Fast forward 30 years and you will see the same problems and same discussions, and deluded fans overhyping middling players and then act surprised when those deluded players don’t meet their unrealistic expectations.

Pakistani fans need to learn to enjoy the game. Let the team dictate your expectations; don’t let your expectations dictate the team. If you expect a fish to fly your expectations are the problem, not the fish’s inability to fly.

That’s thinking within a box and having a pessimistic mentality. Expectations can also be a forcing function for people to rise to the challenge no? If fans accept mediocrity, what would be impetus for the players to progress and push the bar?
The world class players you mentioned above whether Imran, Wasim or Miandad were extremely hardworking and wanted to exceed expectations. So the expectations aren’t the problem, it’s skills and mentality, both of which can be up leveled and several teams have done it. India LOI was quite mediocre in the 90s but gradually raised their game. English LOI was mediocre until 2015, but after that made changes and raised their game.
It’s absolutely delusional to think teams can’t improve, and accept mediocrity along with fans. It’s a negative and and pessimistic view of the world.

 

[Mamoon]

That’s thinking within a box and having a pessimistic mentality. Expectations can also be a forcing function for people to rise to the challenge no? If fans accept mediocrity, what would be impetus for the players to progress and push the bar?
The world class players you mentioned above whether Imran, Wasim or Miandad were extremely hardworking and wanted to exceed expectations. So the expectations aren’t the problem, it’s skills and mentality, both of which can be up leveled and several teams have done it. India LOI was quite mediocre in the 90s but gradually raised their game. English LOI was mediocre until 2015, but after that made changes and raised their game.
It’s absolutely delusional to think teams can’t improve, and accept mediocrity along with fans. It’s a negative and and pessimistic view of the world.

Hard work will not take you to the top if you don’t have the natural talent to start with. Hard work complements natural talent and ability, it cannot replace it.

Every successful world class athlete in any sport was hardworking but also supremely gifted as well compared to the average Joe. People underestimate what it takes to be a world beating player in any sport. Only 0.01% players make it even though thousands work hard.

The examples of both India and England do not apply to Pakistan. India produced a freak like Tendulkar who started a batting culture in India. Strong batting will always bring success. Pakistan has always been a nothing batting side.

England had the players in the system already. They just needed to select the right players. Pakistan does not have a selection issue. Pakistan has a talent pool issue.

There is no potential XI in the entire domestic setup that would turn Pakistan into a world class side. When you don’t have the players you are handicapped and Pakistan has always been a handicapped nation in terms of talent pool.

 

[Energy]

Don't think the OP has seen enough cricket to understand how criticism operates for all teams around the world. We're on a Pakistani form so you'll obviously hear more views about Pakistan.

Basing it loosely on cultural and using terminologies like 'no other country does this and that apart from Pakistan...' is naive.

Sitting back and saying there's no talent in the country is the last thing you possibly want to do. I'm glad majority keep high expectations.

 

[sam_ahm]

Expectations are there on all the teams, some of us don't understand because we don't reside in those countries or don't follow those teams very closely. So we don't know what's happening. Let me tell you even Zimbabwe fans had expectations and there was a lot of pressure to remove Rajput even though he had a contract until 2023 WC, the board though had to bring in Houghton because of fans and media pressure, and the results changed quite dramatically after that.

So expectations and pressure is always there on players representing an entire country. Esp in the subcontinent when you are the best 11 players from the millions across the country, the expectations increase multiple fold.

When it comes to talent and ability, I don't think Pakistan are that far behind.

first of all a lot of focus here is given T20 cricket because we have a WC coming up. Pakistan's problem is mostly the lack of some big hitters and finishers in the middle order in T20s, but even then they've made it to the SFs of last year's WC and the finals of the Asia Cup ahead of some heavy weights. In ODIs and tests Pakistan's team looks a lot more solid, they've recently won an ODI series against Australia and in tests they are still in contention of making it to the WTC finals.

If a 'talentless and skilless' team is able to push for so much then a talented Pakistan side will be like invincible. Now I would call that as quite high 'expectations'

 

[Kaka4pope]

On the topic of expectations, I believe it’s fair to have some basic ones that if met will bear fruit.

For example, intensity/technicality in our fielding - Rixon’s period showed this was possible. It’s regressed, and has gone back to looking casual at times.

Also the general fitness and athleticism of our players - this is 6 months of initial work then maintenance. There is no excuse for players not be at Mohammad Nawaz’s level - never mind Shadab/Rizwan.

Expecting more dynamic thinking from management, less ‘loyalty’ thinking. For example, it’s clear as day that Babar and Rizwan are good all track T20 batsmen but it’s also visible that neither likes to pummel the ball, for which we have players who can do so, meaning they can score easier in the PP and Babar or Rizwan can dissect/manage the middle overs better. It is worth st least looking at…will we though, let’s see.

 

[Rana]

So, let’s embrace doing things the wrong way?

There are set ways of doing things correctly, but let’s purposely go the wrong way because we should lower our expectations?

This is as credible as Saqlain Mushtaq delivering a press conference these days

 

[Rana]

This post is a classic example of writing nothing but in a well articulated way. Also to lead people into the abyss of nothingness in the guise of articulation.

 

[Moiz14]

Such a sarcastic post this is..
Come on man, I can understand if you say this in hockey or squash or any other sport, that we become over ambitious and don't have the talent to match skills of international players...
But this argument in cricket is totally failure and sarcastic... Pakistan is definitely one of the top teams in the world, winning alot of matches, winning tournaments, beating/competing every team... And have world class players like BABAR, RIZWAN, SHADAB, SHAHEEN, NASEEM, HARIS RAUF, Mohammad Amir, Sharjeel, Shan, Saim, Husnain, Dahani, Saud Shakeel, Haris Sohail, yasir Shah, AND MANY more.. These are equally good to any current crop of PLAYERS of any COUNTRY, that is why they constantly keep on beating all big teams in each series or big events... Look at Asia Cup recently .. Beaten AFG and Ind... Its not like teams come and beat us one sided like in hockey or squash or like we are Zimbabwe or Bangladesh... Yes there are rooms for improvement in consistency and selection and better execution of plans on the field with better coaches and captain may be.. But these players are world class.. They aren't mediocre... Expectations are well and true... This argument might have some spine in Misbah's era but not with this team sorry...

ILLOGICAL POST

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Brilliant post by the best poster on the forum in my opinion.

As I have said numerous times, the real problem is not the players, the team management or the PCB.

The real problem is the expectations of the fans. There is a huge gap between the expectations of the fans and the capacity of Pakistan cricket to meet those expectations.

Pakistani fans are by the far the most delusional fans in the game. They are hopeless romantics and the romanticism and myths associated with Pakistan cricket mean nothing.

They have been fed lies like Pakistan has the most natural talent, the whole world is out to get us, Pakistan is the most entertaining team etc.

Post 1992 World Cup, which was the worst thing that happened to Pakistan cricket, Pakistani fans starting romanticizing inconsistency and mediocrity and repackaged it as unpredictability.

The reality is that Pakistan is a mediocre, mentally weak cricketing nation and that has been true throughout the course of history barring a few periods every now and then where Pakistan consistently played like a top team.

You study the history of Pakistan cricket and perhaps the 1985-1991 period is the only one in Pakistan’s history where you would see consistent performances that you would expect a top team to produce.

To be a top, consistent team you don’t need any magic formula or any cornered tigers speech. You need a good captain and 3-4 world class players with several quality but below world class players to complement them.

You look at the history of Pakistan cricket and how many teams do you see that fit the above criteria? Probably none except the period where Imran was captain and Pakistan had a core of him, Wasim, Waqar, Miandad, Qadir, Saleem Malik etc.


Most other Pakistan teams had 1-2 world class players at max and then a bunch of overrated average players who were also mentally weak and quite often involved in shady practices.

Pakistan was never meant to be a top team. Not every sporting team is meant to be great. They just don’t have it in them and neither do Pakistan.

Pakistan is like Sri Lanka, post mid 1990s West Indies etc. It will punch above and below its weight and over a long period of time, you will see average results and that what you get with Pakistan. At its max potential, Pakistan is a 5th/6th ranked side across all formats.

It might go up and down for small periods, but this is where you will find Pakistan most of the time.

However, being a middling sporting team is not wrong. Some of the most passionately followed teams in the world are not very successful or the best. Their fans know that their team will probably never be the best, but that doesn’t stop them from supporting them.

Pakistan does not have the talent, the skill, the mindset and the understanding of cricket to produce an elite team. It never had and never will.

Fast forward 30 years and you will see the same problems and same discussions, and deluded fans overhyping middling players and then act surprised when those deluded players don’t meet their unrealistic expectations.

Pakistani fans need to learn to enjoy the game. Let the team dictate your expectations; don’t let your expectations dictate the team. If you expect a fish to fly your expectations are the problem, not the fish’s inability to fly.

I will take the point that fans should be more patient with a middling team. The current polarised reaction to every every every Pakistan game sucks the joy out of the sport.

However, Pakistan, in realistic terms is very much a one sport country. And there is enough of a population and interest in the game for, theoretically, a formidable talent pool to be developed.

The only comparable countries, with large populations and large portions of the country being interested in cricket, are India, SA, Australia and to a lesser extent, England. All of these countries have a better pathway from school to professional cricket but they’ve all had their own challenges.

Oz and NZ have had issues incorporating their Indigenous populations into cricket. That has an effect on their talent pool.

SA’s issues with getting in facilities to mold black cricketers are evident to this day,

England, despite having immense interest from Asian populations in the country, just doesn’t see enough players come through at county level. We can blame that on stereotypes, but there’s more than meets the eye with that development, [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] having been around the English cricket scene enough, can attest to that. That has an effect on their talent pool.

India, for the longest time had issues in getting a full on battery of fast bowlers to complement their other strengths. Whilst other Indian posters may shine a more accurate light on this, perhaps the facilities and coaching were not their in key parts of the country (e.g. North India) for fast bowling talent there to be fully utilised. India still hasn’t been able to fully tap into talent in East India, I.e Assam/Nagaland. Thus, despite India’s vast resources, that has an effect on their talent pool.

Pakistan lags behind these countries because our pathways, our facilities are less refined than the other nations. This then has an effect on our talent pool.

Years of departmental cricket, a culture of sifarish, lessening facilities of youths and a short termist approach still hamper us.

The 6 team model has helped in that it’s made the domestic scene more meritorious. However it’s also exacerbated the talent pool problem by restricting places, especially as the coaching staff in place have an imbedded mindset of not fully trusting youth.

Theoretically, if our youth coaching improves, we will see an absolute log jam for places in the 6 domestic sides. Thus there is an argument for more domestic sides, without reverting to the departmental model.

Lastly, and most importantly, we have to ask, are we providing enough facilities to youths in the country? Interior Sindh and Balochistan remain largely untapped for youths and we could do better in Gilgit Baltistan.

So, whilst I agree with you on the Talent pool perhaps not being where it should, it absolutely has the potential to be formidable. Maybe that happens in our lifetimes, maybe not.

But sports and supporting sports teams is an exercise in hope. Frequently that emotion of hope turns to fear and anger when results don’t go out way. Whilst greater patience is needed to atleast encourage the team to play greater than the sum of its parts, the incessant media nonsense surrounding cricket doesn’t help the mood.

So whilst I take some of your underlying points regarding the talent pool and fans behaviour, not hoping for something better for your team goes against the very nature of what it means to be a sports fan (be it Indian, Pakistani or English).

 

[Markhor]

There's some truth to Pakistan fans going overboard after wins and losses, it's an emotional and impulsive nation. With so much hopelessness and despair about the country - peoples' hopes and ambitions are projected onto the cricket team which's the one institution that binds people together so each defeat is taken badly.

My problem with the team isn't that it's failing to beat the elite sides - but failing to do the basics.

It's not asking too much for players to take simple catches and not fumble the ball every few minutes. That's schoolboy stuff.

It's not asking too much for consistent selection policies. Haider Ali was dropped despite good scores vs WI last Dec yet Azhar Ali, Hasan Ali, Usman Qadir, Asif Ali, Iftikhar Ahmed and Khushdil Shah are given much longer ropes with no returns. Then we wonder why our youngsters don't develop and play like nervous wrecks.

Is it asking too much of our management to properly balance a team, i.e. not starting our tail at 7 in the deciding Test of a series vs Australia's potent pace attack, not playing a keeper-batsman at 4 in scorching Sri Lankan heat etc.

Or for our Chairman to hire an internationally experienced head coach instead of an interim appointee who's never worked as a head coach even at junior level ? Would anyone let an untrained dentist treat their teeth ?

Would these micro-changes have significantly changed our fortunes ? No, but it's about not placing a big boulder on your back before you've even started the race.

 

[shariqnoor]

The OP needs to be corrected. Indian, Australian, English Cricket team gets scrutinized inside out whenever they fail especially over an extended period of time and in big series ie the Ashes or the World Cup.

Look at the pressure and scrutiny Virat Kohli has faced for his failures in the past 3 years.

Pakistani Nation is no different. Players can be or may not be good enough, they will get criticized if they don't deliver and that criticism is necessary to give them a much bedded kick on the back side to get their act together.

The gist of my post is aligning expectations with the skill level of the team. India has high expectations because their team is fairly skilled enough to win tournaments. The fans put pressure on their team because the fact is India should be winning tournaments with the players they have. Same with England and Australia.

I'm not against setting high expectations. I'm against setting high expectations which is not in sync with the skills of your team. Because all it does is put unnecessary pressure on players. If Pakistan reaches the semi finals of the upcoming world cup, it'll be a truly fantastic result and should be worthy of praise.

 

[shariqnoor]

Such a sarcastic post this is..
Come on man, I can understand if you say this in hockey or squash or any other sport, that we become over ambitious and don't have the talent to match skills of international players...
But this argument in cricket is totally failure and sarcastic... Pakistan is definitely one of the top teams in the world, winning alot of matches, winning tournaments, beating/competing every team... And have world class players like BABAR, RIZWAN, SHADAB, SHAHEEN, NASEEM, HARIS RAUF, Mohammad Amir, Sharjeel, Shan, Saim, Husnain, Dahani, Saud Shakeel, Haris Sohail, yasir Shah, AND MANY more.. These are equally good to any current crop of PLAYERS of any COUNTRY, that is why they constantly keep on beating all big teams in each series or big events... Look at Asia Cup recently .. Beaten AFG and Ind... Its not like teams come and beat us one sided like in hockey or squash or like we are Zimbabwe or Bangladesh... Yes there are rooms for improvement in consistency and selection and better execution of plans on the field with better coaches and captain may be.. But these players are world class.. They aren't mediocre... Expectations are well and true... This argument might have some spine in Misbah's era but not with this team sorry...

ILLOGICAL POST

In fact our expectations are very much aligned in hockey and squash. We realise our level and don't expect much. In cricket it's the opposite. I lost you when you started mentioning the likes of Naseem, Sharjeel, Amir, Dahani as world class players. Maybe they are but surely in an alternate universe where England, Australia, India, NZ levels are equal to Bermuda, PNG, Oman and Hong Kong. I very much looked at the Asia Cup and any sensible cricket fan would've seen that we barely scraped past against Afghanistan.

 

[Rana]

There's some truth to Pakistan fans going overboard after wins and losses, it's an emotional and impulsive nation. With so much hopelessness and despair about the country - peoples' hopes and ambitions are projected onto the cricket team which's the one institution that binds people together so each defeat is taken badly.

My problem with the team isn't that it's failing to beat the elite sides - but failing to do the basics.

It's not asking too much for players to take simple catches and not fumble the ball every few minutes. That's schoolboy stuff.

It's not asking too much for consistent selection policies. Haider Ali was dropped despite good scores vs WI last Dec yet Azhar Ali, Hasan Ali, Usman Qadir, Asif Ali, Iftikhar Ahmed and Khushdil Shah are given much longer ropes with no returns. Then we wonder why our youngsters don't develop and play like nervous wrecks.

Is it asking too much of our management to properly balance a team, i.e. not starting our tail at 7 in the deciding Test of a series vs Australia's potent pace attack, not playing a keeper-batsman at 4 in scorching Sri Lankan heat etc.

Or for our Chairman to hire an internationally experienced head coach instead of an interim appointee who's never worked as a head coach even at junior level ? Would anyone let an untrained dentist treat their teeth ?

Would these micro-changes have significantly changed our fortunes ? No, but it's about not placing a big boulder on your back before you've even started the race.

Thanks

OP and people who support his narrative deserve a harsh reality check like this post here.

Easy to talk nonsense and philosophy to evade criticism like Saqlain, not very easy to understand why you are going wrong and doing the right thing about it.

 

[shariqnoor]

There's some truth to Pakistan fans going overboard after wins and losses, it's an emotional and impulsive nation. With so much hopelessness and despair about the country - peoples' hopes and ambitions are projected onto the cricket team which's the one institution that binds people together so each defeat is taken badly.

My problem with the team isn't that it's failing to beat the elite sides - but failing to do the basics.

It's not asking too much for players to take simple catches and not fumble the ball every few minutes. That's schoolboy stuff.

It's not asking too much for consistent selection policies. Haider Ali was dropped despite good scores vs WI last Dec yet Azhar Ali, Hasan Ali, Usman Qadir, Asif Ali, Iftikhar Ahmed and Khushdil Shah are given much longer ropes with no returns. Then we wonder why our youngsters don't develop and play like nervous wrecks.

Is it asking too much of our management to properly balance a team, i.e. not starting our tail at 7 in the deciding Test of a series vs Australia's potent pace attack, not playing a keeper-batsman at 4 in scorching Sri Lankan heat etc.

Or for our Chairman to hire an internationally experienced head coach instead of an interim appointee who's never worked as a head coach even at junior level ? Would anyone let an untrained dentist treat their teeth ?

Would these micro-changes have significantly changed our fortunes ? No, but it's about not placing a big boulder on your back before you've even started the race.

I will fully agree with this and this is a management problem. When I talk about expectations, I talk about the guys like Shoaib Akhtar, Sikander Bakht and a lot of people on this forum who genuinely believe that Pakistan should be winning world cups because they think we are not selecting the right players. They believe that we have world class players and that if we selected them, nobody else stands a chance. Asif Ali is only enhancing his reputation by not playing this England series. And we all know the skill level of Asif. We didn't win World Cups and ICC events when we had our golden generation in their pomp. Expecting this team to win tournaments is illogical at this point in time. If they do, they are punching above their weight.

 

[Markhor]

I will fully agree with this and this is a management problem. When I talk about expectations, I talk about the guys like Shoaib Akhtar, Sikander Bakht and a lot of people on this forum who genuinely believe that Pakistan should be winning world cups because they think we are not selecting the right players. They believe that we have world class players and that if we selected them, nobody else stands a chance. Asif Ali is only enhancing his reputation by not playing this England series. And we all know the skill level of Asif. We didn't win World Cups and ICC events when we had our golden generation in their pomp. Expecting this team to win tournaments is illogical at this point in time. If they do, they are punching above their weight.

I agree, merely getting out of the groups in Australia will be an achievement given our record there and the limitations of our team.

However where I perhaps differ is we should've won at least one of the 2021 T20 WC and Asia Cup because no team is more familiar with UAE conditions than Pakistan. It was our adopted home for 10+ years with countless internationals and PSL matches, and our overall T20I record is strong there.

In both tournaments we let our control slip at crucial moments due to our management's avoidable miscalculations (Babar going too slow in the PP vs Aus; his bowling changes vs SL when 58-5; Rizwan and Ifti's awful partnership vs SL).

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

I will fully agree with this and this is a management problem. When I talk about expectations, I talk about the guys like Shoaib Akhtar, Sikander Bakht and a lot of people on this forum who genuinely believe that Pakistan should be winning world cups because they think we are not selecting the right players. They believe that we have world class players and that if we selected them, nobody else stands a chance. Asif Ali is only enhancing his reputation by not playing this England series. And we all know the skill level of Asif. We didn't win World Cups and ICC events when we had our golden generation in their pomp. Expecting this team to win tournaments is illogical at this point in time. If they do, they are punching above their weight.

You are well aware that ppl like Shoaib and Bakht base their revenue streams on some form of rancour and malcontent. If Pakistan won all the time, their YouTube views would plummet, unless their overstating the performances of Indian players. Thus one has take to their assessment of Pakistan’s chances with a fistful of salt, because they have made their livelihoods on building Pakistan up and seeing them fail.

However, it’s not illogical for fans to want to see a team be more than the sum of its parts. Pakistan, through horrible management of its youth prospects development (see Haider Ali, Abdullah Shafique, Mohammed Hasnain etc) and over reliance on continuously failing regulars (Azhar,Ifti, Khushdil, Hassan Ali) have been less than the sum of their parts.

The coaching is not dynamic, the captaincy is fairly unimaginative and the incumbent players so weighed down by pressure, that their actually performing below their limited abilities.

A good comparator is NZ. NZ, when MacCullum first started, did not have the a large pool of talent to rely on. However they maximised their abilities and strategy to become a factor in big tournaments and surely success has followed, including a subsequent widening of their talent pool.

Pakistan, on the other hand, have used archaic methods and minimised their available resources to underperform. Fans, whilst be painted as delusional, are cognisant enough to realise that we’re not winning World Cups anytime soon. However, what they are in their rights to expect, is for their national team, with all their resources to be the best they can be, even if that’s not world champion level. That unfortunately is not happening. And every time they fail to be the best version of themselves, the hordes of ex players are spewing vitriol to rack up those you tube views.

Pakistan can be better. They most likely can’t be the best, but they can be better than this. And that is not an unreasonable expectation of Pakistan fans.

 

[LordJames]

Allow me to share a very fine quote regarding expectations:

"Expectations are premeditated resentments."

I feel this quote beautifully summarizes the relationship between the Pakistan cricket team and its fans. The cricket team isn't skilled enough to live up to the fans expectations and the fans resent the cricket team for failing to live up to them.

I wanted to particularly highlight the expectations aspect of our society because I feel this is something that is conveniently ignored in our part of the world. If someone in our society talks about lowering expectations, often the reply back is "you're not ambitious". Culturally we have synonymized expectations with ambitions which is a terrible thing to do. And I use the word culturally because it has become a cultural issue.

Coming back to the cricket team, we as fans need to embrace reality rather than deflect from it by using buzzwords like ambition, and if I'm allowed to take some words from Shoaib Akhtar, daleri and jazba. The unfortunate reality of Pakistan cricket over the past 10 years or so is that the country is not producing quality cricketers barring a few. You cannot pump ambition, jazba, daleri into guys and expect outstanding results when the underlying base of being skilled enough to succeed at the international level with regards to batting and bowling is hollow. It's not going to happen no matter how much you insist it would.

There is literally no cricketing country on Earth that gets so much scrutiny on their players as Pakistan does. One bad match and the knives are out on the players by the fans as well as ex-cricketers. This puts the team under immense mental pressure even before they have stepped out on the field. England have lost multiple matches to the likes of Ireland, Netherlands and Scotland. Scotland posted 371 against England in an ODI. Australia have shelled a Test match to Bangladesh and lost to Zimbabwe recently. Never have their fans or media or ex-cricketers lashed out in public on those results. They take it in their strides and move on. It's only Pakistan where fans and ex-cricketers lambast the team if they lose regardless of the opposition. Imagine a Pakistani team conceding 371 against Netherlands. It would be the Day of Judgment in Pakistan.The pressure this creates on the team is unimaginable. I mentioned in some other thread how this pressure of not being allowed to fail ensures that Pakistan go in with their absolute full strength team against minnow every game which in turn hinders the ability to create a pool of international players.

The recent criticism of Babar-Rizwan as an opening pair is a classic case of Pakistan fans and ex-cricketers raising their expectations to stratospheric levels because they see Buttler, Warner, Rohit as openers in other teams. The truth is, Babar and Rizwan are the best that Pakistan has to offer. Yes, their strike-rates can be a problem, especially when batting first, but that is something that can be improved. Suggesting to remove them altogether as openers is a mindset of ripping things out and starting from scratch rather than trying to improve upon the existing. This habit of ours that the guy sitting on the bench is somehow the answer to our ills is what breeds expectations which ultimately leads to resentments.

As much as the onus of delivering success on the field rests with the players, a lot also lies at the feet of the fans to temper their expectations and align it with the skill levels of the team at hand. Allow the team to fail.

Fantastic post!

The other aspect which goes hand in hand with your analysis is Criticism for the sake of Criticism or venting instead of presenting Solution.

Its in our culture, our writing, our Media and our entire approach.

Even outside of Cricket, there are entire programs which criticize our Economic, Political situation, present off the wall opinions (which make no sense) and no Solutions. Bringing the issue back to Cricket, posters on the forum think that PCB Chairman (Ramiz Raja) is behind the continued selection of Khushdil Shah! Why and on what grounds would anyone think that?

As a nation, we need to focus on adding value to the discussion and refrain from being 'Captain obvious' and present Solutions.

We all know the reliance on Babar & Rizwan
We all know the fragility of the Middle order.
We all know about the Comedy which is our fielding and Catching.

Fair enough...frame the solutions in terms of:

1. What should be done in the long-term to address some of the core issues?
2. What can be done in the Medium Term (18-24 months)?
3. What can be done immediately as a stop-gap?

Lastly, we always seem to frame our arguments in terms of personnel i.e. replace Player A with Player B or Coach A with Coach B when in reality the issues plaguing Pakistan National team are systemic. Take a look at the National T20 or PJL and do you see any difference in the way they play?

Shuffling personnel or coaches around could be a stop-gap solution and nothing else. We need to look at the malaise and take a long-term view.