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First real visuals from Kashmir - BBC Video

You dont need to sympathize.Pandits left just like yatris and tourists did before this decision was taken on direction of Indian government.They still hold jobs,pension and are well settled outside in India.The people who bore all this were Kashmiri Muslims.

Please don't whitewash history.I know of Sikhs who were murdered in the valley and Hindu's left only after they were threatened with rape and murder.Please don't minimise their suffering.

This however does not in anyway justify what the Indian govt is doing, the humiliation and hardships that Kashmiris are undergoing.

I, for one am curious as to what the repercussions will be.
 
Please don't whitewash history.I know of Sikhs who were murdered in the valley and Hindu's left only after they were threatened with rape and murder.Please don't minimise their suffering.

This however does not in anyway justify what the Indian govt is doing, the humiliation and hardships that Kashmiris are undergoing.

I, for one am curious as to what the repercussions will be.

Muslims were persecuted, their belongings stolen and land taken away... women and children raped and this is not in Kashmir over the last thirty years. This is to the Muslims which left India to find a home in the newly formed Pakistan.
 
The only Kashmiris most of you consider humans are Kashmiri Pundits, i am sure that's purely on humanitarian grounds and nothing to do with religion :)

No, I consider all Kashmiris human irrespective of their religion. I also consider the families of the 40 dead soldiers in Pulwama to be humans.

There is tragedy on both sides.
 
Can someone explain to me what secularism and democracy mean nowadays?

napa, xbronze, joshila, sif and others from that side of the line whoever wants to explain is welcome.
 
Media lockdown is right thing to do, govt wants to control the damage which Social media will cause and the unrest it will create.

Why are people expecting this to be like any other normal day and complaining about lack of internet.First duty of govt is control loss of life and property.

Guys like Shah Faesal should be first ones to understand why this done but no this guy wants to be part of the problem rather than solution.He is exactly the reason why there is lockdown.
 
Whatever happens but one thing is for certain modi’s politics started from babri masjid but it will end in lal chowk Srinagar in sha allah
 
Not necessarily. Jammu will develop. Ladakh will too. Kashmir valley can too if people realize slowly. They were in a limbo for so long, taken advantage of and had false hopes. If someone thought India will withdraw from Kashmir considering their lifeline, water comes from that region, then they are delusional. The delusion will wear off slowly. Nobody wants people to die. That solely depends on Kashmiris.

That is what you can't and won't comprehend.
 
That is what you can't and won't comprehend.

There is no advantage for India if people get killed in J&K. This was a diplomatic coup by India and will only be effective if there is no violence. India "wants" Kashmiris to accept this and we all know it ain't easy. Wanting something doesn't mean it will happen but claiming that India "wants" people to die is preposterous.
 
Modi made it very clear Kashmir is ours and we will do anything and everything to make it better,to all people who are against it, you had 70 years.Now it is Modi's turn to do something.
 
There is no advantage for India if people get killed in J&K. This was a diplomatic coup by India and will only be effective if there is no violence. India "wants" Kashmiris to accept this and we all know it ain't easy. Wanting something doesn't mean it will happen but claiming that India "wants" people to die is preposterous.

Like, I've said, this is something you can't and won't comprehend.
 
Muslims were persecuted, their belongings stolen and land taken away... women and children raped and this is not in Kashmir over the last thirty years. This is to the Muslims which left India to find a home in the newly formed Pakistan.

Do you think this didn't happen to Hindus and Sikhs that left Pakistan for India and were forced to accept the decision on partition?
 
Like, I've said, this is something you can't and won't comprehend.

There are limits to international patience despite any amount of soft power one might have. That's especially the case if one gets away with military coup and diplomatic coup in one go, a rarity. India knows this. Some of you guys need to move away from the Godra mindset. A strategic masterstroke that happened during a perfect storm won't be squandered.
 
Do you think this didn't happen to Hindus and Sikhs that left Pakistan for India and were forced to accept the decision on partition?

This is very interesting.
From the experience of my family and which part of Pakistan we ended up on the answer is a firm NO...

In the beginning muslim gangs would wonder the street at night calling out for Hindus to leave their homes so they can be lynched.
But other Muslims protected the Hindus and made the blood thirsty thugs understand.

There are articles about this, once posted in the Asian Readers Digest just a couple of years ago.

Of course i’m old enough to have known relatives who crossed the boarder so do have some first hand accounts
 
This is very interesting.
From the experience of my family and which part of Pakistan we ended up on the answer is a firm NO...

In the beginning muslim gangs would wonder the street at night calling out for Hindus to leave their homes so they can be lynched.
But other Muslims protected the Hindus and made the blood thirsty thugs understand.

There are articles about this, once posted in the Asian Readers Digest just a couple of years ago.

Of course i’m old enough to have known relatives who crossed the boarder so do have some first hand accounts

Im from a refugee family my dads sis was killed in Punjab Pak, try your brainwash on non Punjabis.
 
This is very interesting.
From the experience of my family and which part of Pakistan we ended up on the answer is a firm NO...

In the beginning muslim gangs would wonder the street at night calling out for Hindus to leave their homes so they can be lynched.
But other Muslims protected the Hindus and made the blood thirsty thugs understand.

There are articles about this, once posted in the Asian Readers Digest just a couple of years ago.

Of course i’m old enough to have known relatives who crossed the boarder so do have some first hand accounts

I think it could be selective journalism or hogwash/brainwash to be honest. I attended a partition exhibition event in my city in the US few years back. It was organized by a South Asian group featuring partition survivors from both sides, real exhibits, documents, news sources etc. All of it showed atrocities committed by both the sides.
 
The unprecedented communications blackout imposed on Indian-administered Kashmir could signal a departure in the way in which democratic states clamp down on information in contentious areas, the UN’s special rapporteur on freedom of expression, David Kaye, has said.

Kaye told the Guardian: “There’s something about this shutdown that is draconian in a way other shutdowns usually are not.”

“I can’t recall a situation where there has been a total blackout of not only the two-way, multi-point communication systems that we are familiar with now – anything on the internet, WhatsApp etc – but also the one-direction communications like TV,” Kaye said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...nications-blackout-is-draconian-says-un-envoy
 
Anyone hailing from IOK on this forum, are you able to get through to your family or tell us anything that has been happening there?

I know there was a poster called Madplayer from IOK, we haven't heard from him since blackout. He was very vocal against this blackout, hope he is safe in these turbulent times.
 
Its hard to explain emotions to Indians, which is ironic because they are one of the most emotional people when it comes to their own interests.

Kashmiris value their ethnic, religions, cultural, and linguistic identity. They do not identify with majority of Indians.

I’ve been immensely disappointed in the lack of empathy from Indians on this. It’s one thing to say that they want to retain Kashmir from a nationalist perspective. But they pretend to take some sort of humanitarian approach while telling Kashmir’s that they will die if they ask for what they want.

Ironically, the emotions are in full flow when shahrukh Khan is dying in a Bollywood flick...

I would say that it is just human nature, not limited to Indians.

For instance, you could replace 'Kashmir/Kashmiri' with 'East Pakistan/Bengali' and 'India/Indian' with 'Pakistan/Pakistani' in the above comments and those comments would still make sense. Wouldn't they?
 
Im from a refugee family my dads sis was killed in Punjab Pak, try your brainwash on non Punjabis.

brainwash?
You really are a pathetic individual aren’t you?

You missed my point initially and the topic when elswhere and you call it brainwash?

Of course Hindus were killed as we were Muslims... mothers of sons, one of whom is a member here, lost her brothers.. family friends lost members...

But like I said you missed the point completely,

Don’t engage with me again.
 
brainwash?
You really are a pathetic individual aren’t you?

You missed my point initially and the topic when elswhere and you call it brainwash?

Of course Hindus were killed as we were Muslims... mothers of sons, one of whom is a member here, lost her brothers.. family friends lost members...

But like I said you missed the point completely,

Don’t engage with me again.

First, that was a rhetorical question what I asked, second you started by saying ‘interesting’ to a question of blood shed and then gave your own explanation of with a firm ‘No’ ,denial.

You can go ahead and get personal with your name calling and don’t worry I have no interest in engaging with you.
 
Modi made it very clear Kashmir is ours and we will do anything and everything to make it better,to all people who are against it, you had 70 years.Now it is Modi's turn to do something.
You are sick, wow.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], you bring up Pakistan's mistreatment of East Pakistan again and again and call people hypocrites here, but find me a Pakistani who is as content on that unfortunate time as some of this bunch are on the humanitarian monstrosities being carried out in J&K.
 
Please don't whitewash history.I know of Sikhs who were murdered in the valley and Hindu's left only after they were threatened with rape and murder.Please don't minimise their suffering.

This however does not in anyway justify what the Indian govt is doing, the humiliation and hardships that Kashmiris are undergoing.

I, for one am curious as to what the repercussions will be.

Pandits left and are doing fine today.Kashmiri muslims are facing same torture and oppression which they did 30 years ago.Dont know what whitewash is this.The thing is these Pandits are on high posts in India today so you hear their POV more.What about a common Kashmiri?
 
Nothing has happened at the end of the day.

Get over it.
 
This is very interesting.
From the experience of my family and which part of Pakistan we ended up on the answer is a firm NO...

In the beginning muslim gangs would wonder the street at night calling out for Hindus to leave their homes so they can be lynched.
But other Muslims protected the Hindus and made the blood thirsty thugs understand.

Sorry to burst your bubble but this is not true. Sure, there must've been such incidents where Muslims protected their Hindu neighbors as I'm sure vice versa, in India too.

One of my best friends is a Sindhi whose grandmother escaped hidden in an onion sack on a train to Chennai. The rest of her family were murdered later that night and their haveli ransacked.
 
Sorry to burst your bubble but this is not true. Sure, there must've been such incidents where Muslims protected their Hindu neighbors as I'm sure vice versa, in India too.

One of my best friends is a Sindhi whose grandmother escaped hidden in an onion sack on a train to Chennai. The rest of her family were murdered later that night and their haveli ransacked.

Atrocities were committed by sides.
It was never one way traffic. Lives lost and still being lost, and for what?
 
You are sick, wow.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], you bring up Pakistan's mistreatment of East Pakistan again and again and call people hypocrites here, but find me a Pakistani who is as content on that unfortunate time as some of this bunch are on the humanitarian monstrosities being carried out in J&K.

Most Pakistanis either deny the atrocities in East Pakistan or they downplay their severity. In other words, they don’t acknowledge it. I don’t see any winner in this morality contest.
 
Media lockdown is right thing to do, govt wants to control the damage which Social media will cause and the unrest it will create.

Why are people expecting this to be like any other normal day and complaining about lack of internet.First duty of govt is control loss of life and property.

Guys like Shah Faesal should be first ones to understand why this done but no this guy wants to be part of the problem rather than solution.He is exactly the reason why there is lockdown.

Im guessing the army is hand delivering food and medicine to all the poor kashmiris who are currently facing curfew.
 
I would say that it is just human nature, not limited to Indians.

For instance, you could replace 'Kashmir/Kashmiri' with 'East Pakistan/Bengali' and 'India/Indian' with 'Pakistan/Pakistani' in the above comments and those comments would still make sense. Wouldn't they?

I don't think Pakistanis gloat over the rape and murders of Bangladeshis. That is an embarrassing period of our history and Bangladesh rightfully got their independence. What happened in Bangladesh was a power struggle between two large ethnic groups. It began with two politicians then spilled into bloodshed.

I think that is the difference. Indians blatantly gloat over their atrocities.

Like I said, if someone said due to our national interests I support the stance in Kashmir then that is fair. But stop trying to convince us that the torture is for the betterment of Kashmiri people. I think that's what sickens me the most.
 
Kashmiri Pundits were afraid of giving their opinion on scrapping of Article 370 on the record, but off the record they said that they do not agree with the decision of the Indian govt

BBC Urdu:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">آرٹیکل 370 کے بارے میں کشمیری پنڈت کیا رائے رکھتے ہیں، جاننے کے لیے دیکھیے سرینگر میں موجود ہمارے نمائندے زبیر احمد کی یہ ویڈیو۔<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/India?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#India</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Article370?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Article370</a> <a href="https://t.co/gWR7V2RMZC">pic.twitter.com/gWR7V2RMZC</a></p>— BBC News اردو (@BBCUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCUrdu/status/1159840408685301766?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I don't think Pakistanis gloat over the rape and murders of Bangladeshis. That is an embarrassing period of our history and Bangladesh rightfully got their independence. What happened in Bangladesh was a power struggle between two large ethnic groups. It began with two politicians then spilled into bloodshed.

I think that is the difference. Indians blatantly gloat over their atrocities.

Like I said, if someone said due to our national interests I support the stance in Kashmir then that is fair. But stop trying to convince us that the torture is for the betterment of Kashmiri people. I think that's what sickens me the most.

I think the comparison is not accurate because it is over 2 different time periods. Pakistanis do not gloat over their Bangladesh endeavor NOW because it was in the past. Go back to 1970 and observe Pakistanis then, you will get a different picture. Indians are gloating over Kashmir NOW because it is a contemporary event. In the stateside for instance - Americans do not gloat over Japanese internment camps NOW because it was in the past but back in 1943, a very different picture here. Us not gloating over it now does not make us less culpable for what happened in early 1940s. Same is true for all countries.
 
Kashmiri Pundits were afraid of giving their opinion on scrapping of Article 370 on the record, but off the record they said that they do not agree with the decision of the Indian govt

BBC Urdu:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">آرٹیکل 370 کے بارے میں کشمیری پنڈت کیا رائے رکھتے ہیں، جاننے کے لیے دیکھیے سرینگر میں موجود ہمارے نمائندے زبیر احمد کی یہ ویڈیو۔<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/India?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#India</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Article370?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Article370</a> <a href="https://t.co/gWR7V2RMZC">pic.twitter.com/gWR7V2RMZC</a></p>— BBC News اردو (@BBCUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCUrdu/status/1159840408685301766?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 9, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So 'Pandits' are scared of speaking against this decision, what hope is their for Muslims.
 
Massive protests as soon as the curfew was relaxed. They imposed the curfew again.

 
Massive protests as soon as the curfew was relaxed. They imposed the curfew again.


Sad. No count what so ever as to how many have been injured/raped/dead/homeless by now.

This is worse than dictatorial rule. Democracy in for rest of India while for Kashmir dictatorial abuse is in store.
 
Biggest democracy in the world is scared of democratic voice of Kashmir and hence the curfew/blackout/abuse of power.
 

Interesting reports coming out of India. As per the reporter the Government has already filled up couple of choppers of pro separatist movement from IOK and transferred them to some place in Agra. If these are to be true then surely this is worse than a dictatorial rule.

This is severe misplacement of Kashmiris being happening under the blanket of blackout. Who is going to keep a track of all the souls that disappeared from IOK during this blackout, how would we ever find out who all have been airlifted out of Kashmir and what happened to them.

This is 21st century and I'm surprised such atrocities are being carried out and even more surprised that people from rest of India would not bat an eye over these atrocities.
 
More like separatist and terrorist voices.

What is a democratic voice of Kashmir? Are the voices of Kashmiri people not part of democracy? So if 51% or more of overall Kashmir has a separatist voice would it make that voice undemocratic?
 
Lol at Indians still being deluded. They have parked a million in there for a reason. Even during our attempts to put the BD rebellion down the actual fighting force never exceeded 45,000.
 
Most Pakistanis either deny the atrocities in East Pakistan or they downplay their severity. In other words, they don’t acknowledge it. I don’t see any winner in this morality contest.
It's a poor morality contest, agreed. But look at some of the shocking reactions from most Indians all over the world. You surely should stop comparing us to these animals.
 
What is a democratic voice of Kashmir? Are the voices of Kashmiri people not part of democracy? So if 51% or more of overall Kashmir has a separatist voice would it make that voice undemocratic?

No democracy allows for dissent against state. You are confused between democracy and seperatism.
 
No democracy allows for dissent against state. You are confused between democracy and seperatism.

"Non-violent disagreements and demonstrations are fundamental human rights." The current situation we see in Kashmir shows that fundamental human rights of Kashmiri people have been taken away as we cannot even hear their voices.

Are you supporting this breach of human rights in a democratic country?
 
"Non-violent disagreements and demonstrations are fundamental human rights." The current situation we see in Kashmir shows that fundamental human rights of Kashmiri people have been taken away as we cannot even hear their voices.

Are you supporting this breach of human rights in a democratic country?

Again, not separatism.. You can demonstrate peacefully against anything else, even the constitution.

Well human rights are for everyone else - hard to observer against separatists. So you try to minimize the violation - by confining them
 
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^couldnt edit the above post:
"hard to observer against non peaceful separatist"
 
Again, not separatism.. You can demonstrate peacefully against anything else, even the constitution.

Well human rights are for everyone else - hard to observer against separatists. So you try to minimize the violation - by confining them

How are you sure that there would be violent protests? So are you saying that a state has been confined because the Government implies there would be violent protests?

Also I'm intrigued to know what is a violent protest? Hypothetically, lets assume there is no military presence within the valley and there is no blackout. In that case what would you classify as a violent protest?
 
Point of view of a Kashmiri.


Kashmiri Muslims say that they were not asked and informed before revoking Section 370 and 35A, and state that "The people of Kashmir are the ones to decide whether they want to be a part of India or not".

We, The Kashmiri Pandits are also "The people of Kashmir".

We choose to be a part of India.

There is a historical reason behind why Kashmir which was once a holy land turned into a deadly warzone.

Listen to our story!

We were traumatized by invaders, terrorists and separatists. Our women were raped. We had a horrific choice between either being converted or being killed.

In the year 1990, we experienced a mass genocide, but it was not the first time we had to face it. There have been seven exoduses of Kashmiri Pandits throughout history about which many people are still unaware.

THE FIRST KASHMIRI PANDIT EXODUS

It all started in the 14th century.

Shah Mir, the first Muslim invader, who started to rule Kashmir in 1339 AD converted many Kashmiri Pandits to Islam through violent means. He destroyed our temples and ruined our heritage and culture.

Shah Mir was soon followed by Taimur - The Lame, he drove a huge wedge between majority hindus and minority muslims. Infact, he made a law to persecute Kashmiri Pandits.

Following him, came Sultan Sikandar. He forced many Kashmiri Pandits to convert to Islam, desecrating many hindu temples and murdering the ones who opposed. In order to preserve the precious hindu culture and traditions, many Kashmiri Pandits had to fled their homes.

As a result of the first Kashmiri Pandit Exodus, only 11 Kashmiri Pandit families stayed in Kashmir.

THE SECOND KASHMIRI PANDIT EXODUS

The second Kashmiri Pandit Exodus lasted from 1506 AD to 1585 AD.

During the second exodus, the "Chaks" came into power. "Chaks" were a group which had become a part of the army of Shah Mir. Chaks crushed their political rivals by murders and conspiracies. They were no less ruthless than the rulers who had come before them.

Fattah Khan from 1506 AD to 1516 AD with Shah Mir's chaks demolished many hindu places of worship and tried to remove all traces of infidelity and idol worship from Kashmir. This was also known as the "Dark Ages" or "Dark Period" in the history of Kashmir because it was the ruthless era of the "Chaks".

The chaks were actually Shia muslims, whereas the ones who ruled before them were Sunni muslims. They like the others forcibly converted many Brahmin families to Islam.

Some Kashmiri Pandits sent a plea to the chaks, but they ruthlessly threw them in jail. They persecuted 950 Kashmiri Pandits every day. In order to convert the remaining hindus, they forced them to consume beef. Moreover, thousands of cows were slaughtered every week because the rulers knew that hindus worship the cows.

As a result of this, of all the violence and of all the punishments for being hindus, there was a massive exodus where many Kashmiri Pandits once again fled to never return.

THE THIRD KASHMIRI PANDIT EXODUS

Now came the third exodus under the Mughal Empire from 1585 AD to 1753 AD.

It all started with Akbar The Great, who was known for being a very humane and liberal emperor. Akbar embraced the idea of letting different religions coexist and allowed Kashmiri Pandits to come back into Kashmir and worship their religion freely.

Just when the Kashmiri Pandits started to feel back at home in their own homeland of Kashmir, came his son Jahangir Khan, who did not believe in the same religious tolerance that Akbar had believed in. With Jahangir, Shah Jahan and Aurangzeb were also interested in the torture and mass extermination of Kashmiri Pandits.

Aurangzeb, one of the most rutheless leaders immediately acted upon converting all of India to islam including Kashmiri Pandits. The first step that Aurangzeb did was to exterminate all hindu scholars because he believed they will slow down to process of conversion. Thousands of Kashmiri Pandits were converted to Islam or moved to neighboring to continue practicing hinduism.

As you can see the overall trend of all the exoduses were that certain muslim leaders came into power and as a result crushed the Kashmiri Pandit's culture by either forcefully converting them to Islam, killing them or leaving them with no option other than to flee their beloved homes.

This trend continues in the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh exoduses.

THE FOURTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

Now comes the fourth exodus of Kashmiri Pandits.

In 1753, which was under the rule of the Afghan governors. The leaders continued the mass extermination of Kashmiri Pandits which led the Kashmiri Pandits to once again flee the safety of their homes to Kabul.

Kashmiri Pandits were physically tortured in the most rutheless fashion and had to suffer much emotional and spiritual anguish.

The fourth exodus came to an end when the Sikhs finally captured Kashmir, ending the rule of the ruthless Afghan governors and bringing a little bit more peace.

THE FIFTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

Now came the fifth exodus of Kashmiri Pandits which took place in the early 1900's. Due to Pandit Birbal Dhar, Maharaja Ranjit Singh was able to re-establish a hindu government in the Jammu and Kashmir State after the Sikhs took over. This was a period were all religions were able to coexist in harmony.

Many muslim rulers in India started rising up and forming an organization, which was later known as the Muslims Leading Room.

They were annoyed that educated Kashmiri Pandits lived comfortable lives and held high positions in the government. As a result, on July 13, 1931, later known as Black Day was a grave day for all Kashmiri Pandits.

Kashmiri Muslims looted and murdered many people and properties in Srinagar. As a result, after this the Dogra rulers came into power, and Kashmiri Pandits no longer had any rights.

After Independence was granted to India from the British, even though the entirety of the nation was celebrating the victory of independence, Kashmiri Pandits were unable to do so because Pakistan launched an attack on Kashmir.

Once again, thousands of Kashmiri Pandits had to leave their homes to seek refuge in Srinagar.

The post-independence period in Jammu and Kashmir led to an unmistakably slow and steady exodus of the Kashmiri Pandit Community, and this was primarily due to the fact that Kashmiri Pandits simply had no rights, privileges or opportunities anymore in Kashmir.

As horrifying as the event of the fifth exodus were, they pale in comparison to the events of sixth and seventh exoduses.

THE SIXTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

During the sixth exodus, the ruling of Gul Shah was one of the worst as there were the most amount of curfew days ever. Gul Shah was eventually nicknamed "Gul Curfew" because of this.

A number of Kashmiri Pandits protested resulting in lots of violence the destruction of temples by muslims, because of this, the Kashmiri Pandits understood two things: Kashmir has only become a land for Kashmiri Muslims was no longer safe for the Kashmiri Pandits and that too, the peaceful insights that Mahatma Gandhi showed India were unfortunately very short-lived in Kashmir.

THE SEVENTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

Now for the seventh and final exodus of Kashmiri Pandits, which is ongoing and has never actually officially ended. More than 350,000 Kashmiri Pandits fled in 1990, leaving behind everything they had, believing in a culture that was more than 5000 years old.

Brainwashing and instigating the Kashmiri Muslim Youth, Pakistan laid a trap of making Kashmir independent and thus resulting in lots of violence.

Advocate Tika Lal Taploo, followed by Justice Neelkant Ganjoo and many others tried to take a stand for the Kashmiri Pandits. Unfortunately, many Kashmiri Pandits suffered brutal torture where red-hot knives were touched to their eyes, their tongues were pulled out and cut in half with scissors, youths were kidnapped, tortured, shot with multiple bullets and then were thrown into the Jhelum River. One lady was ripped apart into two with a saw, threatening letters were pasted on doors or temples to either "Cheylyu, Geylyu ya Reylyu", which means run, die or accept Islam.

There was a saying at this time that "Kashmir main agar rehna hain, Allah Ho Akbar kehna hain".

The seventh exodus in Kashmir is still not officially over with Kashmir still in a state of political and religious turmoil.

The struggle continues for the thousands of Kashmiri Pandits all over the world.

But still, we don't support mass killings nor we are taking your homes. We just want our homes back.

We believe in the idea of coexisting.

Hence, We The People Of Kashmir choose to be a part of India.

The motive behind this post is not to create indifferences or spread communal hatred, but to enlighten and educate people about our history and the ground reality of the subject.

Stopped reading when you started portraying Akbar as some Hindu benefactor and Aurangzeb as some ruthless tyrant. You're ignorant about history and sadly, your own history. Please read up on which Mughal emperor had more Hindus in his court as well as why Aurangzeb chose to demolish some temples as well as the fact that he actually built others.

Your lies about what happened hundreds of years ago is precisely why the alleged persecution of some Kashmiri Pundits cannot be used to justify the actual, real persecution that Kashmiri Muslims are facing at the moment.
 
Point of view of a Kashmiri.


Kashmiri Muslims say that they were not asked and informed before revoking Section 370 and 35A, and state that "The people of Kashmir are the ones to decide whether they want to be a part of India or not".

We, The Kashmiri Pandits are also "The people of Kashmir".

We choose to be a part of India.

There is a historical reason behind why Kashmir which was once a holy land turned into a deadly warzone.

Listen to our story!

We were traumatized by invaders, terrorists and separatists. Our women were raped. We had a horrific choice between either being converted or being killed.

In the year 1990, we experienced a mass genocide, but it was not the first time we had to face it. There have been seven exoduses of Kashmiri Pandits throughout history about which many people are still unaware.

THE FIRST KASHMIRI PANDIT EXODUS

It all started in the 14th century.

Shah Mir, the first Muslim invader, who started to rule Kashmir in 1339 AD converted many Kashmiri Pandits to Islam through violent means. He destroyed our temples and ruined our heritage and culture.

Shah Mir was soon followed by Taimur - The Lame, he drove a huge wedge between majority hindus and minority muslims. Infact, he made a law to persecute Kashmiri Pandits.

Following him, came Sultan Sikandar. He forced many Kashmiri Pandits to convert to Islam, desecrating many hindu temples and murdering the ones who opposed. In order to preserve the precious hindu culture and traditions, many Kashmiri Pandits had to fled their homes.

As a result of the first Kashmiri Pandit Exodus, only 11 Kashmiri Pandit families stayed in Kashmir.

THE SECOND KASHMIRI PANDIT EXODUS

The second Kashmiri Pandit Exodus lasted from 1506 AD to 1585 AD.

During the second exodus, the "Chaks" came into power. "Chaks" were a group which had become a part of the army of Shah Mir. Chaks crushed their political rivals by murders and conspiracies. They were no less ruthless than the rulers who had come before them.

Fattah Khan from 1506 AD to 1516 AD with Shah Mir's chaks demolished many hindu places of worship and tried to remove all traces of infidelity and idol worship from Kashmir. This was also known as the "Dark Ages" or "Dark Period" in the history of Kashmir because it was the ruthless era of the "Chaks".

The chaks were actually Shia muslims, whereas the ones who ruled before them were Sunni muslims. They like the others forcibly converted many Brahmin families to Islam.

Some Kashmiri Pandits sent a plea to the chaks, but they ruthlessly threw them in jail. They persecuted 950 Kashmiri Pandits every day. In order to convert the remaining hindus, they forced them to consume beef. Moreover, thousands of cows were slaughtered every week because the rulers knew that hindus worship the cows.

As a result of this, of all the violence and of all the punishments for being hindus, there was a massive exodus where many Kashmiri Pandits once again fled to never return.

THE THIRD KASHMIRI PANDIT EXODUS

Now came the third exodus under the Mughal Empire from 1585 AD to 1753 AD.

It all started with Akbar The Great, who was known for being a very humane and liberal emperor. Akbar embraced the idea of letting different religions coexist and allowed Kashmiri Pandits to come back into Kashmir and worship their religion freely.

Just when the Kashmiri Pandits started to feel back at home in their own homeland of Kashmir, came his son Jahangir Khan, who did not believe in the same religious tolerance that Akbar had believed in. With Jahangir, Shah Jahan and Aurangzeb were also interested in the torture and mass extermination of Kashmiri Pandits.

Aurangzeb, one of the most rutheless leaders immediately acted upon converting all of India to islam including Kashmiri Pandits. The first step that Aurangzeb did was to exterminate all hindu scholars because he believed they will slow down to process of conversion. Thousands of Kashmiri Pandits were converted to Islam or moved to neighboring to continue practicing hinduism.

As you can see the overall trend of all the exoduses were that certain muslim leaders came into power and as a result crushed the Kashmiri Pandit's culture by either forcefully converting them to Islam, killing them or leaving them with no option other than to flee their beloved homes.

This trend continues in the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh exoduses.

THE FOURTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

Now comes the fourth exodus of Kashmiri Pandits.

In 1753, which was under the rule of the Afghan governors. The leaders continued the mass extermination of Kashmiri Pandits which led the Kashmiri Pandits to once again flee the safety of their homes to Kabul.

Kashmiri Pandits were physically tortured in the most rutheless fashion and had to suffer much emotional and spiritual anguish.

The fourth exodus came to an end when the Sikhs finally captured Kashmir, ending the rule of the ruthless Afghan governors and bringing a little bit more peace.

THE FIFTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

Now came the fifth exodus of Kashmiri Pandits which took place in the early 1900's. Due to Pandit Birbal Dhar, Maharaja Ranjit Singh was able to re-establish a hindu government in the Jammu and Kashmir State after the Sikhs took over. This was a period were all religions were able to coexist in harmony.

Many muslim rulers in India started rising up and forming an organization, which was later known as the Muslims Leading Room.

They were annoyed that educated Kashmiri Pandits lived comfortable lives and held high positions in the government. As a result, on July 13, 1931, later known as Black Day was a grave day for all Kashmiri Pandits.

Kashmiri Muslims looted and murdered many people and properties in Srinagar. As a result, after this the Dogra rulers came into power, and Kashmiri Pandits no longer had any rights.

After Independence was granted to India from the British, even though the entirety of the nation was celebrating the victory of independence, Kashmiri Pandits were unable to do so because Pakistan launched an attack on Kashmir.

Once again, thousands of Kashmiri Pandits had to leave their homes to seek refuge in Srinagar.

The post-independence period in Jammu and Kashmir led to an unmistakably slow and steady exodus of the Kashmiri Pandit Community, and this was primarily due to the fact that Kashmiri Pandits simply had no rights, privileges or opportunities anymore in Kashmir.

As horrifying as the event of the fifth exodus were, they pale in comparison to the events of sixth and seventh exoduses.

THE SIXTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

During the sixth exodus, the ruling of Gul Shah was one of the worst as there were the most amount of curfew days ever. Gul Shah was eventually nicknamed "Gul Curfew" because of this.

A number of Kashmiri Pandits protested resulting in lots of violence the destruction of temples by muslims, because of this, the Kashmiri Pandits understood two things: Kashmir has only become a land for Kashmiri Muslims was no longer safe for the Kashmiri Pandits and that too, the peaceful insights that Mahatma Gandhi showed India were unfortunately very short-lived in Kashmir.

THE SEVENTH EXODUS OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

Now for the seventh and final exodus of Kashmiri Pandits, which is ongoing and has never actually officially ended. More than 350,000 Kashmiri Pandits fled in 1990, leaving behind everything they had, believing in a culture that was more than 5000 years old.

Brainwashing and instigating the Kashmiri Muslim Youth, Pakistan laid a trap of making Kashmir independent and thus resulting in lots of violence.

Advocate Tika Lal Taploo, followed by Justice Neelkant Ganjoo and many others tried to take a stand for the Kashmiri Pandits. Unfortunately, many Kashmiri Pandits suffered brutal torture where red-hot knives were touched to their eyes, their tongues were pulled out and cut in half with scissors, youths were kidnapped, tortured, shot with multiple bullets and then were thrown into the Jhelum River. One lady was ripped apart into two with a saw, threatening letters were pasted on doors or temples to either "Cheylyu, Geylyu ya Reylyu", which means run, die or accept Islam.

There was a saying at this time that "Kashmir main agar rehna hain, Allah Ho Akbar kehna hain".

The seventh exodus in Kashmir is still not officially over with Kashmir still in a state of political and religious turmoil.

The struggle continues for the thousands of Kashmiri Pandits all over the world.

But still, we don't support mass killings nor we are taking your homes. We just want our homes back.

We believe in the idea of coexisting.

Hence, We The People Of Kashmir choose to be a part of India.

The motive behind this post is not to create indifferences or spread communal hatred, but to enlighten and educate people about our history and the ground reality of the subject.


In such a long article not one word on the atrocities committed to Kashmiri Muslims by Dogras. Do you realize that there are millions of people of Kashmiri descent who live in Pakistan predominalty in Punjab who had to flee during the 1800's? The Dogra rulers used the Pandits to do their dirty work against the Kahsmiri Muslims. Here is an article https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/dogra-raj-in-kashmir/article9946288.ece

SOme quotes from the article

Alastair Lamb’s careful account says: “In every aspect of the State’s life there was discrimination against the Muslim majority and the application of legislation expressly designed to favour Hindus. Until 1934, for example, the slaughter of cows was a capital offence; and it continued to be forbidden under lesser penalty after that date. The administration of the State was dominated at all levels by the Pandits, Kashmiri Brahmins, who were notoriously corrupt and avaricious. Muslims were in practice severely disadvantaged by the education system which began to develop in the State in the first years of the 20th century. Hindus, alone, were allowed licenses to possess firearms in the Vale of Kashmir; and Muslims from the Vale were carefully excluded from service in the State’s Armed Forces where the higher ranks were reserved for Dogra Rajputs. Muslim troops in the Jammu and Kashmir State forces (usually with Dogra officers) were mainly recruited from the Sudhans of Poonch, a military clan which the Maharaja believed could be relied upon to suppress any disorder in the Vale. The State did not hesitate to interfere with many aspects of Muslim religious life including the administration of Islamic shrines.”

In 1929, Sir Albion Bannerji, who had been Member of the Council of State, resigned on grounds that he made public: “Jammu and Kashmir State is labouring under many disadvantages, with a large Muhammadan population absolutely illiterate, labouring under poverty and very low economic conditions of living in the villages and practically governed like dumb driven cattle. There is no touch between the government and the people, no suitable opportunity for representing grievances and the administrative machinery itself requires overhauling from top to bottom to bring it up to the modern conditions of efficiency. It has at present no sympathy with the people’s wants and grievances” (Lamb, Kashmir: A Disputed Legacy, pages 84 and 88.)
 
Indians keep bringing up there castemembers the Pundits - a wealthy, priveleged caste of Hindus from Kashmir. What they don't understand or deliberately ignore is that they were only a mere 6% of Kashmir population in the 80s before they started migrating and dropped even more so even if you repatariated every Hindu Kashmiri who left in the 90s they still still wouldn't make more than 6% of the population.

In a democracy, every citizen gets one vote and each vote is valued the same - just cause you're Hindu doesn't mean your vote is worth 5 times that of a Kashmiri Muslim so even if EVERY Hindu Kashmiri voted in favor of India, voted in favor of repelling Article 370 they still wouldn't outnumber Muslim voters and thus would lose a referendum whether it be for independence or even a policy proposal.
 
Indians keep bringing up there castemembers the Pundits - a wealthy, priveleged caste of Hindus from Kashmir. What they don't understand or deliberately ignore is that they were only a mere 6% of Kashmir population in the 80s before they started migrating and dropped even more so even if you repatariated every Hindu Kashmiri who left in the 90s they still still wouldn't make more than 6% of the population.

In a democracy, every citizen gets one vote and each vote is valued the same - just cause you're Hindu doesn't mean your vote is worth 5 times that of a Kashmiri Muslim so even if EVERY Hindu Kashmiri voted in favor of India, voted in favor of repelling Article 370 they still wouldn't outnumber Muslim voters and thus would lose a referendum whether it be for independence or even a policy proposal.

This is mainly a bargaining chip by the Indians and the strategic thinkers on the Indians' side also know this.

FWIW - My understanding of the core reasoning behind this point put forward is the Indians subtly telling Pakistan - "Look you claim to be caring for Kashmiris but here are a section of Kashmiris that are ignored so your claimed moral stance is not so perfectly moral after all" or something to that effect - not personally saying this is a right statement (before some of y'all Nancies start going cuckoo again) - but this would be their chess move in diplomatic backhanded dealings.
 
Thanks all
@sif yes because there is no transport on roads and no one from home is allowed to get out no matter what.

Just came to the forum to enquire about you, only to see that you´ve not been active since nine days now. I really hope that you, your family and all your beloved ones are safe. Please update us if you get any access to the Internet. Allah be your Guardian!
 
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