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For those saying Tabish Khan is a consistent performer...

RedwoodOriginal

RedwoodOriginal

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So I did a little bit of digging since people here were so adamant that Tabish Khan has been selected on the basis of "consistent performances in domestic cricket". I was surprised to see the way people here were cheering Mohammad Wasim's 'smoke and mirrors' use of stats and some of my perceptions were reinforced when I looked at the numbers. Below are the bowling averages of bowlers that were in the mix for national selection. The comparison is basically between their numbers in the last 6 seasons and the last 2 seasons.

Look carefully and please remember how many of you rightly pointed out that Abbas's career average of 22 is misleading because he has been averaging 39 recently.

Mohammad Abbas - Last 6 seasons: 14.8 - Last 2 seasons: 21.8
Hasan Ali - Last 6 seasons: 20.7 - Last 2 seasons: 21.7
Waqas Maqsood - Last 6 seasons: 22.9 - Last 2 seasons: 26.9
Tabish Khan - Last 6 seasons: 22.8 - Last 2 seasons: 35.5
Ehsan Adil - Last 6 seasons: 23.6 - Last 2 seasons: 35.8

Not only have we selected a 36 year old fast-bowler but we have selected a 36 year old fast-bowler that is steadily getting worse.

This is the epitome of misleading stats. Sure you could go ahead and say that Abbas hasn't played that many domestic games. At any rate, these numbers prove he is a better bowler than Tabish Khan on Pakistani pitches. They also prove that Waqas Maqsood was a much more deserving inclusion than Tabish or Haris Rauf because unlike Abbas he has played FC cricket consistently.

If anyone doubts the numbers I welcome you to prove me wrong. But please don't tell me how Tabish Khan is a deserving selection.
 
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As said in the team announcement thread, I think Waqas Maqsood deserved it over Tabish as he along with Hassan was one of the key reasons that CP defended the QAE trophy.
 
Rana said:
Boys have got who they wanted. Ash Karo ab
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I read somewhere a while back that the reason Tabish never got selected was because most of his best performances used to come against low-quality oppositions i.e. the depleted regional teams of yesteryears or the lesser known departments. I'm sure if I looked into it I would find more reasons to prove Mohamamd Wasim wrong but frankly, just don't have the energy to do that. This alone is enough to drive the point home.
 
I doubt he'll play. They'll likely go with 2 pacers in Karachi, those being Hasan and Shaheen. For Pindi they might drop a batsman for Faheem.
 
Sometimes a player needs motivation and this might drive him to do better, he certainly can bowl long spells no doubt. Don't knock him until you've seen him i say.
 
Have watched Tabish Khan in the recent domestic games, he looked much more capable with the ball and knew how to set up batsmen for dismissals compared to the likes of Nasim Shah, Musa Khan.

Waqaas Maqsood has looked even more impressive, he deserved an opportunity as well. But no harm in trying out Tabish Khan for the time being
 
I would have preferred a younger bowler over Tabish but it is not the worst pick as he probably won’t even play.

I think Wasim wanted a like for like replacement for Abbas and that’s why he went for him.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
So I did a little bit of digging since people here were so adamant that Tabish Khan has been selected on the basis of "consistent performances in domestic cricket". I was surprised to see the way people here were cheering Mohammad Wasim's 'smoke and mirrors' use of stats and some of my perceptions were reinforced when I looked at the numbers. Below are the bowling averages of bowlers that were in the mix for national selection. The comparison is basically between their numbers in the last 6 seasons and the last 2 seasons.

Look carefully and please remember how many of you rightly pointed out that Abbas's career average of 22 is misleading because he has been averaging 39 recently.

Mohammad Abbas - Last 6 seasons: 14.8 - Last 2 seasons: 21.8
Hasan Ali - Last 6 seasons: 20.7 - Last 2 seasons: 21.7
Waqas Maqsood - Last 6 seasons: 22.9 - Last 2 seasons: 26.9
Tabish Khan - Last 6 seasons: 22.8 - Last 2 seasons: 35.5
Ehsan Adil - Last 6 seasons: 23.6 - Last 2 seasons: 35.8

Not only have we selected a 36 year old fast-bowler but we have selected a 36 year old fast-bowler that is steadily getting worse.

This is the epitome of misleading stats. Sure you could go ahead and say that Abbas hasn't played that many domestic games. At any rate, these numbers prove he is a better bowler than Tabish Khan on Pakistani pitches. They also prove that Waqas Maqsood was a much more deserving inclusion than Tabish or Haris Rauf because unlike Abbas he has played FC cricket consistently.

If anyone doubts the numbers I welcome you to prove me wrong. But please don't tell me how Tabish Khan is a deserving selection.
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Why are you being obsessed with Tabish Khan? He is not going to make the squad of 16 so this point will be moot when they announce the final squad. What I like about Tabish selection in the 20 member squad is that it tells every player that if you perform in Domestic First Class you have a chance to represent your country in the Test arena. It's a very good signal Wasim is sending......
 
BakuGM said:
Why are you being obsessed with Tabish Khan? He is not going to make the squad of 16 so this point will be moot when they announce the final squad. What I like about Tabish selection in the 20 member squad is that it tells every player that if you perform in Domestic First Class you have a chance to represent your country in the Test arena. It's a very good signal Wasim is sending......
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Why? Because I don't want to see a 36 year old uncle playing for Pakistan who also averages a mediocre 35.5 over the last two seasons. That's why.

And if you call averaging 35.5 over seasons as "performing" then I don't know what your definition of excellence is.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Why? Because I don't want to see a 36 year old uncle playing for Pakistan who also averages a mediocre 35.5 over the last two seasons. That's why.

And if you call averaging 35.5 over seasons as "performing" then I don't know what your definition of excellence is.
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It would be even worse if Haris Rauf makes it to the 16 ahead of Tabish. Haris hasn't even performed in FC.
 
I think he deserved to be selected in 20 based on the fact that he has been working tirelessly in domestic cricket and performing well. He wont be picked in the 16 though but I am happy for him anyway.
 
gazza619 said:
I think he deserved to be selected in 20 based on the fact that he has been working tirelessly in domestic cricket and performing well. He wont be picked in the 16 though but I am happy for him anyway.
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So you're saying he should be selected based on performances he gave a decade ago? Why? Are we giving participation certificates out to anyone and everyone who has ever done well in domestic?
 
BunnyRabbit said:
It would be even worse if Haris Rauf makes it to the 16 ahead of Tabish. Haris hasn't even performed in FC.
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With Haris it wasn't even a question and if anything playing him is a risk because his body is not used to playing FC cricket which will make him susceptible to injuries.

I just wanted to clear the myth of Tabish being a "consistent performer" which he clearly is not.
 
Savak said:
Have watched Tabish Khan in the recent domestic games, he looked much more capable with the ball and knew how to set up batsmen for dismissals compared to the likes of Nasim Shah, Musa Khan.

Waqaas Maqsood has looked even more impressive, he deserved an opportunity as well. But no harm in trying out Tabish Khan for the time being
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Yeah he definitely has earned his spot with that terrific average of 35.5. I can only imagine the consistent performances he must have put up to manage that outstanding average.
 
He has done well in domestic cricket for a long period but struggled recently it seems.

For those saying he won't play, what is the use in selecting a 36 year old won't play lol?

I think he has been selected too late. But at least if called upon, he has first class cricket experience.
 
I would say the guy has earned the right to represent Pakistan in a test match. Lets see if he can make the most of it. Waqaas Maqsood should have also been given a chance
 
What are his stats in Karachi and Rawalpindi?

I think they wanted a like-for-like replacement for Abbas rather than Waqas Maqsood who is a left-armer. To be honest, it's all a moot point anyway. Shaheen, Hasan Ali, and Faheem will be the pacers.
 
A complete non issue this. Just a dude who has performed for a while in Domestic getting his chance. He deserves it for that reason alone.
 
Even good domestic performance does not justify selection,

the thing with tabish is in the last 2 yrs since there have been changes and kookaburra ball used tabish khan has been pretty average , redwood has posted the stats .

Now going back to domestic performance i will tell you off a stalwart at Kent an all rounder called Darren Stevens never played for England but a consistent performer at the county level 34 first class 100s , plus 546 first class wickets 24.67 average . Never got a cap
 
He's just the new Aizaz Cheema. He should've gotten an opportunity years ago but I am afraid the ship sailed. Selecting him now makes very little sense.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Meh, he isn't gonna play anyways.
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True. His selection seemed more like PR masterstroke of PCB to me.
1. Select him at fag end of career.
2. Advertise in media: "PCB cares about performers of domestic cricket".
3. I am awaiting a emotional "Thank u PCB" video from Tabish.
4. Bench him by saying "doesn't fit in team combination"
5. Drop him.
 
He won't play. The 3 seamers will be Shaheen, Hasan Ali and Faheem with 2 spinners for the first test I think.
 
If you are giving a debut to a 36 years (Pakistani 36) old fast bowler that means there are some serious flaws in the system.

Majority of the great fast bowlers retire in this age.
 
Cric_lover4487 said:
True. His selection seemed more like PR masterstroke of PCB to me.
1. Select him at fag end of career.
2. Advertise in media: "PCB cares about performers of domestic cricket".
3. I am awaiting a emotional "Thank u PCB" video from Tabish.
4. Bench him by saying "doesn't fit in team combination"
5. Drop him.
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The way I see it, I took Tabish's selection as more of a number 2 in your list.
 
Pacy with wisdom said:
We all know that he is a journeyman.
But this is a symbolic selection that was needed to bring clarity in the long haul.
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Exactly right. No way he will play in the final XI. It’s showing reward for domestic performances and sending a signal to everyone else.

As a symbolic selection it’s fine, won’t be clever to play in the final XI, but then look who will be deciding the final XI.
 
Cric_lover4487 said:
True. His selection seemed more like PR masterstroke of PCB to me.
1. Select him at fag end of career.
2. Advertise in media: "PCB cares about performers of domestic cricket".
3. I am awaiting a emotional "Thank u PCB" video from Tabish.
4. Bench him by saying "doesn't fit in team combination"
5. Drop him.
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You all said the same about Fawad. Point is, more than PR, this is a symbolic signal to all domestic players that their efforts will not go unnoticed.

That’s the real masterstroke.
 
Sickening that people are using this guy’s age as a reason for him to not be selected and calling him uncle. The same friggin fans are silent with carrying a 40 year old Hafeez in the team who has milked the national team for decades with cheap one off irrelevant performances.
 
Only selected to keep Karachi media guys quiet. They are still mad over Asad exclusion :))).

Waqas Masood deserved more than him, he performed in national T20, PSL and QEA2020.
 
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sshakir411 said:
Sickening that people are using this guy’s age as a reason for him to not be selected and calling him uncle. The same friggin fans are silent with carrying a 40 year old Hafeez in the team who has milked the national team for decades with cheap one off irrelevant performances.
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Although I agree with your point about Hafeez, there is a difference between batsmen, spinners and fast bowlers.

There is also a difference between picking an already established international player beyond 35 over a debutant.

A batsman could come in at 35/36 (even that is pushing it). But a fast (medium) bowler is too late because of the physicality required. If you brought back a seasoned test bowler at 35/36 for a series, that’s different too.

However, as has been discussed this is clearly a message that “performed in domestic consistently over a period of time and this new selection panel will value it. I’m ok with that
 
Two spinners will be kicked out. Than one batsmen will be going out aswell.

After that the axe would fall on either agha salman or saud shakeel
 
Major said:
Two spinners will be kicked out. Than one batsmen will be going out aswell.

After that the axe would fall on either agha salman or saud shakeel
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Lol Saud is definitely making the final 16
 
sshakir411 said:
Sickening that people are using this guy’s age as a reason for him to not be selected and calling him uncle. The same friggin fans are silent with carrying a 40 year old Hafeez in the team who has milked the national team for decades with cheap one off irrelevant performances.
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There's a big difference between a 36 year old batsman or spinner and a 36 year old fast-bowler making his debut. But that's not even the biggest reason why he shouldnt be in the squad.
 
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Major said:
Two spinners will be kicked out. Than one batsmen will be going out aswell.

After that the axe would fall on either agha salman or saud shakeel
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Agha has played well but he has had just one good season whereas Saud has been performing consistently for the last 5 years.

Which means the axe should fall on Abdullah Shafique.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
There's a big difference between a 36 year old batsman or spinner and a 36 year old fast-bowler making his debut. But that's not even the biggest reason why he shouldnt be in the squad.
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Maybe we should leave the judgement part until after this guy has had a chance? Typical Pakistani fan mentality is to trash anyone and everyone before they even get a game. If he’s not good enough...he won’t last long. In a team where useless players get free rides for decades a 36 year old seamer can get a game or two.
 
sshakir411 said:
Maybe we should leave the judgement part until after this guy has had a chance? Typical Pakistani fan mentality is to trash anyone and everyone before they even get a game. If he’s not good enough...he won’t last long. In a team where useless players get free rides for decades a 36 year old seamer can get a game or two.
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This isn't a club cricket team where everyone gets a chance and a participation trophy. It's the national team.

And if you bothered to look at his recent numbers you would have seen that he does not deserve to be selected because he has averaged 35.5 in the last two seasons.

Just because he is 36 and spent his life playing domestic cricket does not mean he is good enough to play for Pakistan.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This isn't a club cricket team where everyone gets a chance and a participation trophy. It's the national team.

And if you bothered to look at his recent numbers you would have seen that he does not deserve to be selected because he has averaged 35.5 in the last two seasons.

Just because he is 36 and spent his life playing domestic cricket does not mean he is good enough to play for Pakistan.
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Yet other age fudgers get a free ride in this national team. A Club team is probably better run than our national team. So please shut up and let the guy have his moment. Like I said, if he isn’t good enough he won’t last long. Im not sure why you’re so hurt after everyone and had a chance to represent the national team.
 
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sshakir411 said:
Sickening that people are using this guy’s age as a reason for him to not be selected and calling him uncle. The same friggin fans are silent with carrying a 40 year old Hafeez in the team who has milked the national team for decades with cheap one off irrelevant performances.
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he performed when it mattered the most though..
 
It shows how pathetic we are that we have to rely on a 36 year old FAST bowler and a gali mohalla bowler like Haris Rauf. Our test cricket fast bowling is truly doomed, one of the worst in the world.
 
sshakir411 said:
Yet other age fudgers get a free ride in this national team. A Club team is probably better run than our national team. So please shut up and let the guy have his moment. Like I said, if he isn’t good enough he won’t last long. Im not sure why you’re so hurt after everyone and had a chance to represent the national team.
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First off, you need to learn some respect when you talk.

If you can't handle other peoples opinions don't bother commenting but don't tell me to shut up.

Second off, the premise of your argument is downright nonsensical. Just because we have done something wrong in the past i.e. giving age-fudgers a place, we should do it again because this time its someone you happen to like.

The only good scenario that can come out of this is that he is not being picked to play and then dropped in the next series after which he rides out his remaining days in domestic.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
First off, you need to learn some respect when you talk.

If you can't handle other peoples opinions don't bother commenting but don't tell me to shut up.

Second off, the premise of your argument is downright nonsensical. Just because we have done something wrong in the past i.e. giving age-fudgers a place, we should do it again because this time its someone you happen to like.

The only good scenario that can come out of this is that he is not being picked to play and then dropped in the next series after which he rides out his remaining days in domestic.
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I have never seen this guys bowl. All I know is people on here trash every player before they get a single game. I’m not sure why you’re so upset by this. Because the national team is still a circus and we pick players based on preference. This will keep on continuing until we have people like you who do not value domestic performance regardless of its standards.
 
sshakir411 said:
I have never seen this guys bowl. All I know is people on here trash every player before they get a single game. I’m not sure why you’re so upset by this. Because the national team is still a circus and we pick players based on preference. This will keep on continuing until we have people like you who do not value domestic performance regardless of its standards.
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You don't know the first thing about valuing domestic performance. Because you (despite being told repeatedly) seem oblivious to the fact that he hasn't actually performed in the first place. Averaging 35.5 with the ball in domestic cricket is not 'performing' and at 36 years these kind of numbers makes you a liability.

Stop being gullible enough to believe everything the chief-selector tells you just because he made a power-point presentation and showed you some graphs lol.
 
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