Gen Faiz wanted to bring TTP back to Pakistan: Federal Human Rights Minister Riaz Pirzada

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Federal Human Rights Minister Riaz Pirzada has claimed that former director general of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Lieutenant General Faiz Hameed wanted to bring the outlawed Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) back to the country.

He made these remarks on Dawn News programme ‘Doosra Rukh’, which will air at 7pm today.

Pakistan has of late seen an uptick in terrorist activities, with an attack on the Karachi police chief’s office on Friday night being the latest incident.

The hours-long combat between terrorists and law-enforcement agencies, at the office located at Sharea Faisal, left four people martyred and 18 injured while all three terrorists were reported to be killed.


The PTI and the incumbent government have been trading blame for the security situation in the country. The coalition set-up has said that the PTI’s move to enter into dialogue with militants was “faulty” and it was “never endorsed” by parliament.

The statement from the federal minister comes a day after PTI leader Shireen Mazari claimed that ex-army chief retired General Qamar Javed Bajwa wanted to “resettle” TTP members in the country.

However, Mazari’s party chief Imran Khan defended the plan earlier this month.

“When the Afghan war ended… some 30,000 to 40,000 Pakistani tribal fighters wanted to come back,” Imran said, adding all stakeholders, inclu*ding local leaders, had been taken on board regarding their resettlement in the country.

“The PTI government had two options: either kill all of them or reach an agreement with them and allow them to settle in the province. These returning fighters had many issues that needed to be resolved for peace in the province,” he said.

In the interview today, Pirzada claimed that an in-camera briefing was held in which army generals proposed to bring TTP back to Pakistan.

“However, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari and Shehbaz Sharif talked on it … they said that a number of popular leaders were martyred by TTP, including Benazir Bhutto sahiba.”

In response to a question regarding who made this proposition, the minister said: “At that time, Gen Faiz had suggested that they [TTP] should be brought into the mainstream but it backfired.”

F-9 rape case
Talking about Islamabad’s F-9 Park rape case, Pirzada said that criminals were roaming about at night. “The situation is such that […] sometimes poverty and sometimes animal instinct takes over […] so people should protect themselves from such incidents.”

Earlier this month, a 24-year-old woman was raped at the F-9 Park, located in a commercial locality. The attack shocked the nation and renewed questions over the safety of women in the country.

During the interview today, the federal human rights minister, in response to a question on measures that can be taken to prevent such incidents, said that the foremost way to prevent such attacks was the proper upbringing of children at home.

“Good mothers should do good upbringing. We have some limits regarding children going out at night. Not just women, men too get mugged at night.”

Pirzada further said that “people have to protect themselves from such incidents […] the way they say you should protect yourselves while driving”.

Missing persons issue
Additionally, on the issue of missing persons, the minister said that the real protectors of human rights were the courts because they were responsible for punishment and relief.

“This is why I say that in the cases of missing persons, there is something from both sides. In some cases, people who were used go missing … others go into hiding in the mountains or other countries and then they are declared missing.

“This is a debatable point and has pros and cons,” he stated.

The minister added that until and unless the law and order situation in the country improves, the issue won’t be solved.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1737989/gen-faiz-wanted-to-bring-ttp-back-to-pakistan-minister

 

[RajBan]

This is known story. Faiz and IK have facilitated several hundreds of TTP fighters to return and settle down. Faiz always had close links with Taliban and their franchisee and wanted to keep them engaged as future assets potentially if and when he would have been the COAS. Imran does not view TTP or Taliban as harmful groups, he views them as freedom fighters against Western powers and views TTP as somebody whom he can talk to and agree on mutual existence.

 

[Champ_Pal]

This is known story. Faiz and IK have facilitated several hundreds of TTP fighters to return and settle down. Faiz always had close links with Taliban and their franchisee and wanted to keep them engaged as future assets potentially if and when he would have been the COAS. Imran does not view TTP or Taliban as harmful groups, he views them as freedom fighters against Western powers and views TTP as somebody whom he can talk to and agree on mutual existence.

Imran is smart. Only he can think like that.

 

[RajBan]

Imran is smart. Only he can think like that.

I think more importantly his voter base thinks the same. And that is atleast 40% of the population which is also the reason why TTP is untouchables

 

[daytrader]

Ex-ISI chief being investigated for corruption: Sanaullah

Former spy chief retired Lt-Gen Faiz Hamid is being investigated for alleged corruption, Interior Minister Rana Sanaullah revealed, while his party leader Maryam Nawaz Sharif called for the retired general’s court martial over his alleged role in bringing down her father’s government and implicating both her and Nawaz Sharif in NAB cases.

Meanwhile, Gen Hamid also seemed to break his silence over the fresh wave of allegations being levelled against him — by the PML-N in general and Ms Sharif in particular — when he told a journalist that it is the army chief who calls the shots in the military.

In a press conference on Wednesday, the interior minister said that a probe was underway against the ex-Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) boss and his brother over alleged corruption and accumulating assets beyond means. However, he said it would be premature to say anything further at this stage.

When it was pointed out that any probe into assets beyond means would fall in the domain of the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA), the law minister said an investigation was already under way.

“When something surfaces, you will be informed,” he told the questioner.

Separately, in an interview with a newly-launched digital news outlet, Ms Sharif demanded strong action against the former ISI DG for his role in getting her and her father convicted in NAB corruption references in 2017.

Unlike her arch-rival Imran Khan, who is demanding the court martial of the previous army chief, Ms Sharif stopped short of seeking any major punitive action against retired Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, saying that as of now, she wanted to make an example of Gen Hamid.

“I had spoken against Gen Hamid in court when he was the sitting ISI chief for his alleged involvement in getting me and Nawaz Sharif punished. I had evidence against him,” she said, referring to former Islamabad High Court judge Shaukat Aziz Siddiqui’s claims that the spy agency tried to prevail on him to issue a verdict of their liking.

When asked to comment on the PML-N leader’s demand for Gen Hamid’s court martial for his alleged unconstitutional acts, Rana Sanaullah said that this was a matter for GHQ to decide.

“Politicians make demands and express their viewpoint,” he said, explaining that a court martial of a former military officer does not fall within the jurisdiction of civil authorities.

Later, senior journalist Kamran Khan claimed in a tweet that the former ISI chief had reached out to him and provided a response to the allegations being levelled by Ms Sharif.

According to the journalist, Gen Hamid argued that in 2017-18, he was simply a major general in the army and asked whether, under military discipline, a lone officer could topple the government.

He was also quoted by Mr Khan as saying that it is the chief of army staff who has the final say, and that all the major decisions — seemingly a reference to Nawaz Sharif’s disqualification and subsequent imprisonment — were taken by the courts.

...
https://www.dawn.com/news/1741186/ex-isi-chief-being-investigated-for-corruption-sanaullah

 

[Stewie]

I think more importantly his voter base thinks the same. And that is atleast 40% of the population which is also the reason why TTP is untouchables

What a load of Bull, pulling that number out of your rear end, any way for you to back it up?

Most PTI supporters are liberals and moderates. Why would we want to fight the Taliban when we can negotiate peace deal with them? Look at what happened to the almighty US. Tried to fight them for 20 years and ended up tucking their tail to run. We just do t want to fight anybody else’s war, that’s all. It doesn’t mean IK is getting chummy with them. Just love and let live because we cannot afford prolonged war against them.

In fact if anything it’s the army that wants to continue to fight then because it keeps the money flowing from the Americans. And PMLN and PDM just want to tow their line so of course they will put up a false bravado and show they want to fight them.

 

[Varun]

What's that phrase doing the rounds? At the time of partition - Pakistan got stuck with the ISI and India with the IAS, and both continue to hang around each nation like a noose around their necks.

 

[saeedhk]

Khan is a known Taliban supporter. He admitted on his grand plan on TV of inviting TTP fighters with their families from Afghanistan and settling them in tribal areas. Very sick and twisted!

 

[Major]

IK supported him, destroyed the country for us while IK lives in his vip mansion.

 

[Stewie]

To the geniuses who keep claiming iK is a taliban "supporter" will any of you mind explaining why the so-called war on "terror", be it Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc, anywhere, has not yielded the result the western world wants you to see? What is the end game? the ultimate goal? Wiping out terrorism? Killing all the terrorists? Eliminating extremism?

Why has the world failed to achieve these goals in nearly 22 years now? In spite of all the technology, resources, manpower, money, intel, etc?

The answer is simple, you cannot kill an ideology with weapons. You have to dig deeper. These people were weaponized to fight the Soviets, the ideology is what they live and die by. The US did a gret job of ensuring a steady stream of die hard soldiers for defeating the Soviets, unfurtunately they created a monster they cannot kill now with weapons. It has to be killed using similar tactics.

You cannot live next door and declare them evil and try to kill them for US dollars and hope they wont hurt you back. Its idiotic! You deal with them through diplomacy, you try to systemically eliminate the extremism by improving their overall condition, provide them with livelihood, stable social and economic conditions for them and their families so they can start thinking maybe they were lied to and the whole world is not out to kill them.

This is what IK was trying to do. You think children who had their entire villages and families wiped out from drone attacks will simply shrug it off and move on with their lives? NO! They will pick up the weapons and carry on with their misguided jihad. Imran recognized this and tried to tackle it that way. If it took settling them in the tribal areas, well so be it.

I think most PPers here are fairly educated, or at least thats what I would like to think. Its about time they consider why the tactics against this evil have not worked in nearly a quarter of a century. Beofre you start blaming people as taliban sympathizers or radicals, please take a moment to consider these points.

The Pakistani establishment loves to tow the line of the western states, because thats how they keep their coffers full, the army keeps getting the weapons it wants to thumb the noses of the Indians and at the same time pump this stuff intio their dismal Kashmir campaign. Funnily enough, the one guy Indians should realize is good for the overall region, they love to bash just because he hates their own Pol Pot aka Modi.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

To the geniuses who keep claiming iK is a taliban "supporter" will any of you mind explaining why the so-called war on "terror", be it Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc, anywhere, has not yielded the result the western world wants you to see? What is the end game? the ultimate goal? Wiping out terrorism? Killing all the terrorists? Eliminating extremism?

Why has the world failed to achieve these goals in nearly 22 years now? In spite of all the technology, resources, manpower, money, intel, etc?

The answer is simple, you cannot kill an ideology with weapons. You have to dig deeper. These people were weaponized to fight the Soviets, the ideology is what they live and die by. The US did a gret job of ensuring a steady stream of die hard soldiers for defeating the Soviets, unfurtunately they created a monster they cannot kill now with weapons. It has to be killed using similar tactics.

You cannot live next door and declare them evil and try to kill them for US dollars and hope they wont hurt you back. Its idiotic! You deal with them through diplomacy, you try to systemically eliminate the extremism by improving their overall condition, provide them with livelihood, stable social and economic conditions for them and their families so they can start thinking maybe they were lied to and the whole world is not out to kill them.

This is what IK was trying to do. You think children who had their entire villages and families wiped out from drone attacks will simply shrug it off and move on with their lives? NO! They will pick up the weapons and carry on with their misguided jihad. Imran recognized this and tried to tackle it that way. If it took settling them in the tribal areas, well so be it.

I think most PPers here are fairly educated, or at least thats what I would like to think. Its about time they consider why the tactics against this evil have not worked in nearly a quarter of a century. Beofre you start blaming people as taliban sympathizers or radicals, please take a moment to consider these points.

The Pakistani establishment loves to tow the line of the western states, because thats how they keep their coffers full, the army keeps getting the weapons it wants to thumb the noses of the Indians and at the same time pump this stuff intio their dismal Kashmir campaign. Funnily enough, the one guy Indians should realize is good for the overall region, they love to bash just because he hates their own Pol Pot aka Modi.

I have sadly come to the conclusion that many Pakistanis deep down don't mind the ideology.

Afghan Taliban Lunatics enjoy common support amongst the Pakistani masses.

TTP may be the same.

Anyway, you can't reason with an ideology that puts bombs on kids and sends them in their way.

 

[Stewie]

I have sadly come to the conclusion that many Pakistanis deep down don't mind the ideology.

Afghan Taliban Lunatics enjoy common support amongst the Pakistani masses.

TTP may be the same.

Anyway, you can't reason with an ideology that puts bombs on kids and sends them in their way.

All the best with trying to wipe them out. I keep repeating it wont work.

Do you realize how this truly works? There are always a mulla or sheikh at the top pulling the strings. He is not the one who goes out in the field with bomb strapped to him. He is the cunning son of a ***** who uses the radicalized youth and other men by giving them a steady source of income and telling them if they die doing his bidding its for a good cause, He is the one sending the kids with bombs attached to them.

and this sheikh is a goon for hire. He will take money from pakistan and send his people to fight in kashmir. he will take money from india and conduct terrorism in pakistan. he learnt how to do this from others who came before him and worked similarly for the americans. They thrive on chaos and war. the worst part is, there is always such a sheikh or mulla around the corner to replace those who are removed or killed, because this is all they know. WHat you want to do is dry out their supply of dumb drones at the lower levels by educating them, and providing them with alternative options to make a living rather than paying their bills through jihad.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

All the best with trying to wipe them out. I keep repeating it wont work.

Do you realize how this truly works? There are always a mulla or sheikh at the top pulling the strings. He is not the one who goes out in the field with bomb strapped to him. He is the cunning son of a ***** who uses the radicalized youth and other men by giving them a steady source of income and telling them if they die doing his bidding its for a good cause, He is the one sending the kids with bombs attached to them.

and this sheikh is a goon for hire. He will take money from pakistan and send his people to fight in kashmir. he will take money from india and conduct terrorism in pakistan. he learnt how to do this from others who came before him and worked similarly for the americans. They thrive on chaos and war. the worst part is, there is always such a sheikh or mulla around the corner to replace those who are removed or killed, because this is all they know. WHat you want to do is dry out their supply of dumb drones at the lower levels by educating them, and providing them with alternative options to make a living rather than paying their bills through jihad.

Why is that its Pakistan that suffers from this ideology and not Indian Muslims, Bangladeshi Muslims many other Muslims from 3rd world countries?

They too are uneducated.

Our state shelters and cultivates this thinking. For example, Ghazi is running free passing comment on current affairs. Lynchers can go around pulling the limbs of alleged blasphemers and nobody utters a peep.

Once that Mullah you mention is tried, executed and buried in an unknown grave in the desert, his wife & kids are left destitute the next mullah will think twice about rising up.

 

[Stewie]

Why is that its Pakistan that suffers from this ideology and not Indian Muslims, Bangladeshi Muslims many other Muslims from 3rd world countries?

They too are uneducated.

Our state shelters and cultivates this thinking. For example, Ghazi is running free passing comment on current affairs. Lynchers can go around pulling the limbs of alleged blasphemers and nobody utters a peep.

Once that Mullah you mention is tried, executed and buried in an unknown grave in the desert, his wife & kids are left destitute the next mullah will think twice about rising up.

Either you are playing dumb or I severly overestimated you. Pakistan does not "suffer" from this because we produce them. We suffer from this because our "proxitmity" to Afghanistan. You probably do not realize this but there is fair bit of extremism in iNdia and bangladesh as well. But they dont have the terrain, the caves and the deeply entrenched desperation of Afghanistan that feeds on them and gives them shelter and "fulfillin" jihadi career.

BUt yes, our state and by state of course I mean the establishment, cultivates this crap. As long as this chaos exists, they could milk the US for money. IK tried going against that.

on the bolded part of your post, HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT FOR YOU? I will keep asking that. They have wiped out hundred of such mullah but there is always always another one to take his place, my friend. How many will you kill? obviously you are not scaring them off or driving them poor. IT IS NOT WORKING!

I hope I am making sense to you but I feel like we are coming from two completely different places on this issue.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Either you are playing dumb or I severly overestimated you. Pakistan does not "suffer" from this because we produce them. We suffer from this because our "proxitmity" to Afghanistan. You probably do not realize this but there is fair bit of extremism in iNdia and bangladesh as well. But they dont have the terrain, the caves and the deeply entrenched desperation of Afghanistan that feeds on them and gives them shelter and "fulfillin" jihadi career.

BUt yes, our state and by state of course I mean the establishment, cultivates this crap. As long as this chaos exists, they could milk the US for money. IK tried going against that.

on the bolded part of your post, HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT FOR YOU? I will keep asking that. They have wiped out hundred of such mullah but there is always always another one to take his place, my friend. How many will you kill? obviously you are not scaring them off or driving them poor. IT IS NOT WORKING!

I hope I am making sense to you but I feel like we are coming from two completely different places on this issue.

It's easy to blame Afghanistan. I suppose they are to blame in a sense but its only indirectly. This mentality has oozed in our nation since Zia days and exacerbated due to our own security services pumping it into the population further.

The lynchers, Lal Masjid, Ahmedi Killers, Mumtaz Qadris, TLP are all manifestations of this extremism just as much as the TTP is.

And they all enjoy deep public support because this ideology can be brought into the fold any time and normalised for political reasons. We can't blame the Afghans for this. Normalising these extremists leads us to the slippery slope of TTP and violence.

@bolded Pakistan hasn't really taken too much action against these Mullahs or TTP but I am happy to be corrected on this. Hakimullah was killed by the Americans. Noor wali is at large and supported by the Afghan Taliban we helped put in power.

Instead Pakistan has tried to play a double game using the very language that you have used and that is precisely why they have failed miserably.

 

[Stewie]

It's easy to blame Afghanistan. I suppose they are to blame in a sense but its only indirectly. This mentality has oozed in our nation since Zia days and exacerbated due to our own security services pumping it into the population further.

The lynchers, Lal Masjid, Ahmedi Killers, Mumtaz Qadris, TLP are all manifestations of this extremism just as much as the TTP is.

And they all enjoy deep public support because this ideology can be brought into the fold any time and normalised for political reasons. We can't blame the Afghans for this. Normalising these extremists leads us to the slippery slope of TTP and violence.

@bolded Pakistan hasn't really taken too much action against these Mullahs or TTP but I am happy to be corrected on this. Hakimullah was killed by the Americans. Noor wali is at large and supported by the Afghan Taliban we helped put in power.

Instead Pakistan has tried to play a double game using the very language that you have used and that is precisely why they have failed miserably.

Hard to disagree with any of that, however, it is not fair to suggest we as a nation, support or back this ideology. its a disease that we are suffering from and its manifestations have neen worse for us due to our proxitmity to aghanistan.

Back to the topic at hand, our neighbors on here have taken this opportunity to somehow bash IK and blame him for being a sympathizer or enabler, when the truth of the matter is he has gone against the well established and old school of thought that helped establish this cancer in the region. And he has tried to approach it from a different angle. At least he is smart enough to know that if you keep trying the same thing over and over again, and it is not working, you need to try something different to fix it.

 

[Markhor]

To the geniuses who keep claiming iK is a taliban "supporter" will any of you mind explaining why the so-called war on "terror", be it Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc, anywhere, has not yielded the result the western world wants you to see? What is the end game? the ultimate goal? Wiping out terrorism? Killing all the terrorists? Eliminating extremism?

Why has the world failed to achieve these goals in nearly 22 years now? In spite of all the technology, resources, manpower, money, intel, etc?

The answer is simple, you cannot kill an ideology with weapons. You have to dig deeper. These people were weaponized to fight the Soviets, the ideology is what they live and die by. The US did a gret job of ensuring a steady stream of die hard soldiers for defeating the Soviets, unfurtunately they created a monster they cannot kill now with weapons. It has to be killed using similar tactics.

You cannot live next door and declare them evil and try to kill them for US dollars and hope they wont hurt you back. Its idiotic! You deal with them through diplomacy, you try to systemically eliminate the extremism by improving their overall condition, provide them with livelihood, stable social and economic conditions for them and their families so they can start thinking maybe they were lied to and the whole world is not out to kill them.

This is what IK was trying to do. You think children who had their entire villages and families wiped out from drone attacks will simply shrug it off and move on with their lives? NO! They will pick up the weapons and carry on with their misguided jihad. Imran recognized this and tried to tackle it that way. If it took settling them in the tribal areas, well so be it.

I think most PPers here are fairly educated, or at least thats what I would like to think. Its about time they consider why the tactics against this evil have not worked in nearly a quarter of a century. Beofre you start blaming people as taliban sympathizers or radicals, please take a moment to consider these points.

The Pakistani establishment loves to tow the line of the western states, because thats how they keep their coffers full, the army keeps getting the weapons it wants to thumb the noses of the Indians and at the same time pump this stuff intio their dismal Kashmir campaign. Funnily enough, the one guy Indians should realize is good for the overall region, they love to bash just because he hates their own Pol Pot aka Modi.

Stewie I normally agree with your views but you're wide of the mark here.

1) Pakistan has repeatedly negotiated with TTP over the last 20 years, and each time TTP used ceasefires to rearm and regroup. You cannot say diplomacy hasn't been tried.

2) When after years of half-measures Pakistan seriously conducted military operations post-APS, the terrorist threat dramatically reduced. That's not my opinion but the facts. The number of terrorist incidents in 2012 was 2347. By 2019 it fell to 136.

https://www.satp.org/datasheet-terrorist-attack/fatalities/pakistan

3) Opponents of military operations typically erroneously conflate the Afghan Taliban and TTP. The Afghan Taliban are more organised, are supported by significant chunks of the indigenous population and unlike the TTP had previous governing experience.

The Karzai-Ghani Govts were far weaker than Pakistan's with no authority outside the urban centres. Their Army ran away from their posts. Meanwhile the TTP have splintered, and has been routed every time they confront the Pakistan Army.

I agree the long-term solution is improving social conditions in KPK. However the underlying cause behind the recent upsurge is the previous Govt's soft-touch and lax border policy with IK's misguided notions of Pathan brotherhood that's always blinded him to the real threat to Pakistan's security from Afghanistan.

Our establishment gambled the Afghan Taliban would keep TTP on a leash, and again they've been proven wrong as they refuse to crack down on TTP to show their independence from Pakistan. Again that's not my opinion but fact. Imran Khan's OWN Foreign Office condemned Afghan Taliban.

4) I also sympathise with the drone victims, but I also sympathise with the 60K Pakistanis civilians butchered by TTP. Do they not have a right to pick up arms too - or at least expect their taxpayer funded Army to take up the fight and finish the job ?

 

[Major]

Stewie I normally agree with your views but you're wide of the mark here.

1) Pakistan has repeatedly negotiated with TTP over the last 20 years, and each time TTP used ceasefires to rearm and regroup. You cannot say diplomacy hasn't been tried.

2) When after years of half-measures Pakistan seriously conducted military operations post-APS, the terrorist threat dramatically reduced. That's not my opinion but the facts. The number of terrorist incidents in 2012 was 2347. By 2019 it fell to 136.

https://www.satp.org/datasheet-terrorist-attack/fatalities/pakistan

3) Opponents of military operations typically erroneously conflate the Afghan Taliban and TTP. The Afghan Taliban are more organised, are supported by significant chunks of the indigenous population and unlike the TTP had previous governing experience.

The Karzai-Ghani Govts were far weaker than Pakistan's with no authority outside the urban centres. Their Army ran away from their posts. Meanwhile the TTP have splintered, and has been routed every time they confront the Pakistan Army.

I agree the long-term solution is improving social conditions in KPK. However the underlying cause behind the recent upsurge is the previous Govt's soft-touch and lax border policy with IK's misguided notions of Pathan brotherhood that's always blinded him to the real threat to Pakistan's security from Afghanistan.

Our establishment gambled the Afghan Taliban would keep TTP on a leash, and again they've been proven wrong as they refuse to crack down on TTP to show their independence from Pakistan. Again that's not my opinion but fact. Imran Khan's OWN Foreign Office condemned Afghan Taliban.

4) I also sympathise with the drone victims, but I also sympathise with the 60K Pakistanis civilians butchered by TTP. Do they not have a right to pick up arms too - or at least expect their taxpayer funded Army to take up the fight and finish the job ?

fully agree with this post. POTW nomination.

I will like to add that the Afghan taliban smartly uses such organizations. They use them towards gaining startegic advantage over others. Mullah Omar used the Al Qaeda and this was evident when the Indian airlies was hijacked and they provided cover in Kandahar to the Al Qaeda members.

The Afghan taliban does not recognize the Durond line and will obviously use the TTP to target us. For them having a group like TTP instead of a proper army gets the job done.

No one cares about drone victims. Its really annoying how people use their shoulders to justify things. When an area is at war, you simply move out. If you stay behind in a warzone offcourse you will become a victim.

Alot of people from Waziristan have moved out to Islamabad and Punjab, do they pick up arms?

Picking up arms is just a lame excuse, people dont pick up arms just because they were bombed in a war zone. People take up arms due to being naive.

Anyways, Imran's biggest damage on Pakistan was his policy with the Afghan taliban which is now targeting the police and will target us civilians any time. We can potentially lose our lives cause the naïve king in his mansion in Bani Gala made stupid negotiations

 

[Major]

All the best with trying to wipe them out. I keep repeating it wont work.

Do you realize how this truly works? There are always a mulla or sheikh at the top pulling the strings. He is not the one who goes out in the field with bomb strapped to him. He is the cunning son of a ***** who uses the radicalized youth and other men by giving them a steady source of income and telling them if they die doing his bidding its for a good cause, He is the one sending the kids with bombs attached to them.

and this sheikh is a goon for hire. He will take money from pakistan and send his people to fight in kashmir. he will take money from india and conduct terrorism in pakistan. he learnt how to do this from others who came before him and worked similarly for the americans. They thrive on chaos and war. the worst part is, there is always such a sheikh or mulla around the corner to replace those who are removed or killed, because this is all they know. WHat you want to do is dry out their supply of dumb drones at the lower levels by educating them, and providing them with alternative options to make a living rather than paying their bills through jihad.

There was a time, when we used to feel scared of going to crowded places in Islamabad and Rawalpindi due to the crazy number of terrorist attacks taking place. They were blowing up banks, checkposts, different roads. Things were terrible.

Zarb e Azb was a success. It wiped out these scums, it made an impact. It allowed cricket to return to Pakistan, allowed businesses to open up. Life became soo normal thatn when terrorist activity started this year, there has been chaos.

If we can have good years by eliminating terrorist than why negotiate? Has negotiation ever worked? No it has not.

Zarb e was the only itme we took action against them and it gave us 8 years of peace. Only reason why they are back is because Imran allowed them to regroup.

 

[Major]

To the geniuses who keep claiming iK is a taliban "supporter" will any of you mind explaining why the so-called war on "terror", be it Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc, anywhere, has not yielded the result the western world wants you to see? What is the end game? the ultimate goal? Wiping out terrorism? Killing all the terrorists? Eliminating extremism?

Why has the world failed to achieve these goals in nearly 22 years now? In spite of all the technology, resources, manpower, money, intel, etc?

The answer is simple, you cannot kill an ideology with weapons. You have to dig deeper. These people were weaponized to fight the Soviets, the ideology is what they live and die by. The US did a gret job of ensuring a steady stream of die hard soldiers for defeating the Soviets, unfurtunately they created a monster they cannot kill now with weapons. It has to be killed using similar tactics.

You cannot live next door and declare them evil and try to kill them for US dollars and hope they wont hurt you back. Its idiotic! You deal with them through diplomacy, you try to systemically eliminate the extremism by improving their overall condition, provide them with livelihood, stable social and economic conditions for them and their families so they can start thinking maybe they were lied to and the whole world is not out to kill them.

This is what IK was trying to do. You think children who had their entire villages and families wiped out from drone attacks will simply shrug it off and move on with their lives? NO! They will pick up the weapons and carry on with their misguided jihad. Imran recognized this and tried to tackle it that way. If it took settling them in the tribal areas, well so be it.

I think most PPers here are fairly educated, or at least thats what I would like to think. Its about time they consider why the tactics against this evil have not worked in nearly a quarter of a century. Beofre you start blaming people as taliban sympathizers or radicals, please take a moment to consider these points.

The Pakistani establishment loves to tow the line of the western states, because thats how they keep their coffers full, the army keeps getting the weapons it wants to thumb the noses of the Indians and at the same time pump this stuff intio their dismal Kashmir campaign. Funnily enough, the one guy Indians should realize is good for the overall region, they love to bash just because he hates their own Pol Pot aka Modi.

this is a false narrative that the conservatives have created.

People whose villaiges get bombed dont pick up weapons. I know this personally because i go to the markets. People from Waziristan did not pick up weapons against Pak army when Zarb e azb happen. A war was declared and they were told to move out and they had to.

In Pindi and Islamabad they established businesses and started working. They did not pick up arms. Alot of them work as retailers and small business owners for cars and different goods.

Only the naïve pick up weapons. People dont go out taking revenge against the nation, this is just what you see in movies. Naïve people might, but majority moved out from those areas for a better life.

 

[Stewie]

[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION], [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]:
first thing first: are we talking about living conditions in the tribal areas, KPK or afghanistan?
Also, let us first get deeper into who the TTP really are, are they pakistanis, are they afghanis? who are they really? My understanding is they are pakistanis, but heavily influenced by the Afghan taliban. So whether we liked it or not, they are still our obligation. [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION] alleged IK brought them and their families from afghanistan into pakistan. I am not sure if there is any truth to it if they are already pakistanis residing in KPK/tribal areas.

So, I hope you guys see where my comments were coming from. But on principle the argument is the same for me even if they are pakistani taliban or afghan taliban. They both operate within an ideology and its hard to crack long term with force.

We have always had a symbiotic relationship with them. We helped create them with the US and now we use them when we want and discard them when we want, they go to others to make money and start destabilising Pakistan. That, my friends, is the game of musical chairs and a silly dance we are seeing with our establishment, the taliban, and other foreign players in the region.

What is the point of these military actions against them if the same generals will go back to them and use them to wage their jihad in kashmir after a few months? Not sustainable. If guilty, put them through due process while continuing to reassimilate them in a civil manner. I dont think Imran Khan ever gave blanket amnesty to them. He just brought them to the table to negotiate peace.