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General Hamid Gul passes away

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Deosai

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Just heard on the news that the Pakistani general that helped bring down the Iron curtain, died cause of a brain hemorrhage

RIP
 
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un

An outstanding Soldier of Pakistan.
 
Critics can hate him as much as they want but he was a great military officers, son of the soil. Played a big role to bring down the Soviets & bolstered Pakistani interests.
 
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Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon

May allah grant him jannah firdaus

The nation salutes you general
 
The nation salutes you sir.

May you forever rest in peace..
 
RIP.

Didnt agree with all his ideas but he was definitely a patriot and sincerely cared for the country
 
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un

A patriot, a great man, a legend of military intelligence.

Pakistan lost a real Gem today.
 
Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajiyun.

May ALLAH grant him mercy and a place in heaven.
 
The West German govt thanked him for his role in bringing down communism by gifting him a piece of the Berlin wall with a message engraved on it:

"With deepest respect to Lieut. General Hamid Gul, who helped deliver the first blow."
 
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CMeUxQzUAAA5APv.jpg
 
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un

Praying to Allah SWT to give Hamid Gul Sahab Jannat ul Firdaus.
 
Definitely can't agree with lot of his policies but he was a real patriot. Great loss to the nation, kept coming on media to defend his nation even till the last breath.
 
The world has too many patriots.

He sold us out for the "greater cause" of the "Ummah". There's no reason we should be bringing other people's war into our backyard, but that's exactly what we did for the purposes of the beloved Ummah.
 
Deosai said:
Critics can hate him as much as they want but he was a great military officers, son of the soil. Played a big role to bring down the Soviets & bolstered Pakistani interests.

10532350_626605944105168_1322692960280770078_n-jpg.247462
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Actually he was a pro Taliabn. He even tried to justify their demands so many times on tv. Well he left a poor image of himself after his military career. People take him as a Talibans sympathizer.
 
MRSN said:
Actually he was a pro Taliabn. He even tried to justify their demands so many times on tv. Well he left a poor image of himself after his military career. People take him as a Talibans sympathizer.
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Baap apni ulaad ko kabhi nai bhoolta. How heart touching.
 
Great person, great patriot. Felt in his words his pain for Pakistan. RIP

The Pakistani nationalists no.s reducing and beghairat brigade no.s on the rise. Trying to spread disinformation against PAkistan social values trying to weaken PAk's defense. Singing hymns and praises for india. Avoiding india's weaknesses, the elite/jamhuriat nexus' corruption.

Fight will continue but lost an important soldier.
 
thelandofthebravepeople said:
Has a lot of innocent blood on his hands. Now Allah will deal with him.
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All generals have some innocent blood on their hands to achieve their goals, he succeeded in kicking out the soviets, so he's a success compared to the loser gene reals who only kill but don't achieve anything
 
Ex-ISI chief Hamid Gul dies at 79

Former Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) chief Lt General (retd) Hamid Gul passed away in Murree on Saturday evening due to brain haemorrhage, Express News reported.

According to his daughter, Uzma Gul, the former spy master had been taken to the Combined Military hospital in Murree on Saturday after he suffered brain haemorrhage.

Despite efforts by the doctors, he could not be saved.

His body was shifted to his house in Rawalpindi. He is expected to be buried in army graveyard in Rawalpindi after early evening prayers. Abdullah, returns from Turkey and the other son returns from Australia.

The three-star general was commissioned in the Pakistan Army in October 1956 with the 18th PMA Long Course in the 19th Lancers regiment of the Armoured Corps. He fought in the 1965 war with India. He attended the Command and Staff College Quetta in 1968-69.
During 1972–1976, Gul directly served under General Muhammad Ziaul-Haq as a battalion commander, and then as Staff Colonel, when General Zia was GOC, 1st Armoured Division and Commander, II Corps at Multan.

Gul was promoted to Brigadier in 1978 and steadily rose to be the Martial Law Administrator of Bahawalpur and then the Commander of the 1st Armoured Division, Multan in 1982.

He then served as the director general of ISI between March 29, 1987 and October 4, 1989.

He retired from service in 1992.

Expressing grief over Lt Gen Gul’s death, Army chief General Raheel Sharif expressed sorrow and extended his condolences to the bereaved family.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has expressed his heartfelt condolences over the demise of Lt.Gen.(retd.) Gul. He commiserated with the bereaved family to bear this loss.

Finance Minister Ishaq Dar and Information Minister Pervaiz Rasheed also expressed their condolences.

As news of his death spread, many took to micro-blogging site Twitter to express grief over his demise.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/938886/ex-spy-master-hamid-gul-passes-away-in-murree/
 
RIP Gul you can disagree with his views but you can never question his love for Pakistan.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Last week,with a smile he said "My wife has final stage of cancer and I am trying to hide it.Please pray for her"! <a href="http://t.co/cpu5zqpA1j">pic.twitter.com/cpu5zqpA1j</a></p>— Dr Shahid Masood (@Shahidmasooddr) <a href="https://twitter.com/Shahidmasooddr/status/632634231693316100">August 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I know him and his family personally, and there is no doubt that he was a great patriot and a very adamant individual, but that does not mean that we deny all the ills that he directly and indirectly caused to this country because of his policies.

He has sympathized with Osama on multiple occasions, helped form IJI and is strongly suspected to be a part of the Ummah Tameer-e-Nau, which is known to provide aid to Al-Qaeda.

He has played a prominent role in cultivating the extremist mindset and has the blood of more than 50,000 innocent people on his hands. Let us not confuse his patriotic zeal with his lust for blood and power.

Benazir also accused him of the assassination attempt on her in Karachi in 2007, which also lead to his arrest.
 
RIP Mr. Gul. There are very rare instances where I have agreed to his views but mostly disagreed and always got surprised how a man with this caliber and high position can be so delusional.

Regarding, his achievements (Some I read in this thread too), what exactly he achieved for Pakistan ? What good his actions has done to Pakistan as a country and society ?

I do not know him personally, but even reading all his achievements people share with pride, I am not sure if those are in the interest of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
 
Garuda said:
RIP Mr. Gul. There are very rare instances where I have agreed to his views but mostly disagreed and always got surprised how a man with this caliber and high position can be so delusional.

Regarding, his achievements (Some I read in this thread too), what exactly he achieved for Pakistan ? What good his actions has done to Pakistan as a country and society ?

I do not know him personally, but even reading all his achievements people share with pride, I am not sure if those are in the interest of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
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If it weren't for the actions of him and the establishment, the Soviets would have annexed us so they can access the warm waters of the Arabian sea, he also preserved Pakistan's territorial integrity, wiping away any agenda of Greater afghanistan
 
Deosai said:
If it weren't for the actions of him and the establishment, the Soviets would have annexed us so they can access the warm waters of the Arabian sea, he also preserved Pakistan's territorial integrity, wiping away any agenda of Greater afghanistan
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Without USA and CIA.

Mr. Gul takes too much credit. Rather his actions (using Jihad as state policy ) is backfiring for next generation Pakistanis.
 
Garuda said:
Without USA and CIA.

Mr. Gul takes too much credit. Rather his actions (using Jihad as state policy ) is backfiring for next generation Pakistanis.
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Yeah without their help it wouldn't possible. You say Gul and ISI hai too much credit but they also take the most blame. Pakistan is blamed the most for Taliban, not America or Arabs or Afghans, even though all played a role but Pakistan gets the blame, so if we get all the blame then we also get all the credit. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

His policies were appropriate for the time, it was a need of the hour
 
Deosai said:
If it weren't for the actions of him and the establishment, the Soviets would have annexed us so they can access the warm waters of the Arabian sea, he also preserved Pakistan's territorial integrity, wiping away any agenda of Greater afghanistan
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He didn't finish his job regarding Talibans so no he didn't have a successful mission. You see using Talibans was maybe a good tactic but he should have made our future safe as well.

We have millions of Afghans as refugees and some are involved in crimes and we have thousands of people killee due to terrorism all because Hameed Gul and other people didn't think about after effects of training afghan Mujahideen inside our territory.
 
Pakistan would have had a great future if it wasn't for our involvement in that time messed up Afghanistan.
 
Deosai said:
Yeah without their help it wouldn't possible. You say Gul and ISI hai too much credit but they also take the most blame. Pakistan is blamed the most for Taliban, not America or Arabs or Afghans, even though all played a role but Pakistan gets the blame, so if we get all the blame then we also get all the credit. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

His policies were appropriate for the time, it was a need of the hour
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His policies were good for USA's interest and some Army general's interest. But can you say it was the best interest for Pakistan and it's future generation ?

A policy is good or bad is defined by how it impacted not only in short-term but also in long term.
 
MRSN said:
He didn't finish his job regarding Talibans so no he didn't have a successful mission. You see using Talibans was maybe a good tactic but he should have made our future safe as well.

We have millions of Afghans as refugees and some are involved in crimes and we have thousands of people killee due to terrorism all because Hameed Gul and other people didn't think about after effects of training afghan Mujahideen inside our territory.
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Good point.

None of his actions seems to have been thought about Pakistani People's benefit.
 
Garuda said:
His policies were good for USA's interest and some Army general's interest. But can you say it was the best interest for Pakistan and it's future generation ?

A policy is good or bad is defined by how it impacted not only in short-term but also in long term.
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There would be no Pakistan, we would all be speaking Russian and mother Russia would be reigning strong; imagine no break up of USSR or Yugoslavia, no end of Berlin wall, cold war extending for God knows how long. This man did what Rocky Balboa only did in the movies; knock out the bloody soviets.
 
Deosai said:
There would be no Pakistan, we would all be speaking Russian and mother Russia would be reigning strong; imagine no break up of USSR or Yugoslavia, no end of Berlin wall, cold war extending for God knows how long. This man did what Rocky Balboa only did in the movies; knock out the bloody soviets.
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That's called selling the fear.

How does Yugoslavia, Berlin wall was affecting Pakistan ?

Again too much credit saying this man knocked out the Soviets.
 
Garuda said:
That's called selling the fear.

How does Yugoslavia, Berlin wall was affecting Pakistan ?

Again too much credit saying this man knocked out the Soviets.
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Wow you're not so smart. Pakistan's existence was threatened by soviet invasion of Afghanistan and support of anti state elements within our country, we countered it successfully.

There's no such thing as selling fear, it's call being proactive, India sells fear by massing a million troops on little Kashmir; it's call protecting your interests, preemptive measures are important to thwart any neferious designs.
 
So many sympathies for a guy who made pakistani citizens pay for his deeds.
 
Two brave man died on same day. Here is Punjab Home Minister Col (retd) Shuja KHanzada Facebook post few hours before he died.

CMhukKxU8AA-zGP.jpg
 
Tried all he could to prevent BB getting power in '88 but couldn't stop it.
 
Garuda said:
His policies were good for USA's interest and some Army general's interest. But can you say it was the best interest for Pakistan and it's future generation ?

A policy is good or bad is defined by how it impacted not only in short-term but also in long term.
Click to expand...

ISI didn't have a policy. Pakistan faced an existential threat and the chief of ISI dealt with it with whatever means necessary. It's zia-ul-haq who defined the policy (refusing to be controlled by the soviets), ISI merely found a way to apply it. So, as chief ISI, by defeating the soviets, Hameed Gul fulfilled his role. The failure of controlling the talibans is on his successors at ISI, not him.

However, it is true that he played a negative role after his retirement. But this doesn't change the fact that, at the helm of ISI, he was a great man.
 
Deosai said:
Wow you're not so smart. Pakistan's existence was threatened by soviet invasion of Afghanistan and support of anti state elements within our country, we countered it successfully.

There's no such thing as selling fear, it's call being proactive, India sells fear by massing a million troops on little Kashmir; it's call protecting your interests, preemptive measures are important to thwart any neferious designs.
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When someone gets personal, it's evident that you do not have anything else to debate.

Again nothing more in your post that same rhetoric that "this would have been , that would have been". My point is What happened. Being proactive he achieved terrorism in his country. Good policy according to you.
 
endymion248 said:
ISI didn't have a policy. Pakistan faced an existential threat and the chief of ISI dealt with it with whatever means necessary. It's zia-ul-haq who defined the policy (refusing to be controlled by the soviets), ISI merely found a way to apply it. So, as chief ISI, by defeating the soviets, Hameed Gul fulfilled his role. The failure of controlling the talibans is on his successors at ISI, not him.

However, it is true that he played a negative role after his retirement. But this doesn't change the fact that, at the helm of ISI, he was a great man.
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Yes, very much this.

But if you give credit to him for defeating Soviets (which I do not agree that he is the one who did it), he also need to take the blame for not realizing what a kind of monster he is creating.
 
Gen Hamid Gul himself give most of the credit for the defeat of soviet to his ISI Chief General Akhtar Abdur Rehman who served as ISI chief from 1979 to 1987. There is a book by Hamid Gul with the title Gumnaam Sepahi or Mujahid or something like that which i read many years ago in which he described the important role of General Akhtar Abdur Rehman who was later promoted to Joint Chief of Army Staff and he died with Zia they were on same plane.

Akhtar Abdur Rehman role in that war was almost equal to Gul if not more but you will hardly see him getting that credit by media although Gul himself never missed an opportunity to give credit to his Senior Akhtar Abdur Rehman.

1533756_10152063467004130_1651112337_n.jpg
 
Deosai said:
All generals have some innocent blood on their hands to achieve their goals, he succeeded in kicking out the soviets, so he's a success compared to the loser gene reals who only kill but don't achieve anything
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You're right about the innocent blood part. In fact the general to work subsequent to Gul as ISI chief called the Peshawar attack victims "collateral damage" recently. Kind of rich that we all got so offended on social media. Instead of "Dark Day" we should have just referred to it as Patriot's Day or Collateral Damage Day. These things supposedly happen when you work for the Ummah's cause.
 
RIP, obviously not a pleasant way to go.

Couple of points on Hamid Gul:

1) He gets a lot of noteriety because he's the public face of a security establishment that has been viewed with suspicion the world over. He's been a big media personality but really his time heading the ISI was brief and his anti-Christ type image gets overblown. Gul embraced his villanous persona amongst foreigners.

2) However Gul was a representation of everything wrong with the Zia establishment of the 1980s whose short-term policies have contributed to the long-term destruction of Pakistan. The Afghans did succeed in driving out the Soviets but the blowback has been massive. Pakistan's grooming of the Afghan jihadists and importing Saudi brand of Salafism to brainwash young Pakistanis into jihad to fight alongside them has spawned a generation of hate filled indoctrinated militants who've turned their guns against the state. Militancy became acceptable under Gul and the ISI in the 80s as long as they did Pakistan's bidding. They were a 'shadow army'. But we created a Frankenstein monster that has now gone out of control. SSP, LEJ and LET are all groups that've got succour from ISI either directly or indirectly in the past and have enjoyed the cosy nexus between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

It wasn't just romantic Afghan nationalists we backed in the 80s and 90s - the ISI backed the most vicious and barbaric warlords like Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. People like Ahmad Shah Massoud who wanted an independent Afghan democracy was HATED by Pakistan as he wasn't an Islamabad puppet. Gul has blood on his hands.

Also Gul's legacy will be his sympathy for terrorists. Be it Malik Ishaq who he sat alongside with in a Difa-e-Pakistan rally (an umbrella group of all the right-wing religious nutcases in Pakistan that've at some point been funded by ISI), a known butcherer of Shias. Or even Osama Bin Laden who he claimed to have met many times.

This is not a legacy to be proud of. Too many Pakistanis have died because of his and his beloved ISI's policies. Its sad so many here are willing to overlook that.
 
Markhor said:
RIP, obviously not a pleasant way to go.

Couple of points on Hamid Gul:

1) He gets a lot of noteriety because he's the public face of a security establishment that has been viewed with suspicion the world over. He's been a big media personality but really his time heading the ISI was brief and his anti-Christ type image gets overblown. Gul embraced his villanous persona amongst foreigners.

2) However Gul was a representation of everything wrong with the Zia establishment of the 1980s whose short-term policies have contributed to the long-term destruction of Pakistan. The Afghans did succeed in driving out the Soviets but the blowback has been massive. Pakistan's grooming of the Afghan jihadists and importing Saudi brand of Salafism to brainwash young Pakistanis into jihad to fight alongside them has spawned a generation of hate filled indoctrinated militants who've turned their guns against the state. Militancy became acceptable under Gul and the ISI in the 80s as long as they did Pakistan's bidding. They were a 'shadow army'. But we created a Frankenstein monster that has now gone out of control. SSP, LEJ and LET are all groups that've got succour from ISI either directly or indirectly in the past and have enjoyed the cosy nexus between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

It wasn't just romantic Afghan nationalists we backed in the 80s and 90s - the ISI backed the most vicious and barbaric warlords like Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. People like Ahmad Shah Massoud who wanted an independent Afghan democracy was HATED by Pakistan as he wasn't an Islamabad puppet. Gul has blood on his hands.

Also Gul's legacy will be his sympathy for terrorists. Be it Malik Ishaq who he sat alongside with in a Difa-e-Pakistan rally (an umbrella group of all the right-wing religious nutcases in Pakistan that've at some point been funded by ISI), a known butcherer of Shias. Or even Osama Bin Laden who he claimed to have met many times.

This is not a legacy to be proud of. Too many Pakistanis have died because of his and his beloved ISI's policies. Its sad so many here are willing to overlook that.
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He has created monsters one could never forgive him for.
 
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DrSchultz said:
Tried all he could to prevent BB getting power in '88 but couldn't stop it.
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Indeed, and the ISI, as the Supreme Court case has shown, funded the IJI's political activities in the 1990 election to defeat Bhutto.

Of course Nawaz Sharif who became our 'beloved' Prime Minister, Zia's blue eyed boy himself, benefited from licking the boots of Gul's ISI and military dictators. Funny how history panned out.

As far as the Russians invading Pakistan - this is another Zia propaganda myth designed to create fear into Pakistani citizens so they backed his war. The Soviets were having a hard time enough in Afghanistan, let alone Pakistan !

Also let's not give too much credit to Hamid Gul for 'defeating the empire' - the USSR's economy was in decline since Brezhnev and the Soviet Union was always a melting point of different nationalities that would eventually have risen up and broke away. Afghan war was one of the final blows not the decisive blow.
 
filthyfulltoss said:
You're right about the innocent blood part. In fact the general to work subsequent to Gul as ISI chief called the Peshawar attack victims "collateral damage" recently. Kind of rich that we all got so offended on social media. Instead of "Dark Day" we should have just referred to it as Patriot's Day or Collateral Damage Day. These things supposedly happen when you work for the Ummah's cause.
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Indeed Asad Durrani also said in that interview which I urge people to watch (https://youtu.be/Z__lyS-wI7c) that "the Taliban and their supporters in Pakistan should be given a big applause" and whose mindset is typical of that 1980s Pakistan military establishment for whom concern for human life was secondary, "morality took a backseat in statecraft" and that there are no limits for the ISI to transgress.

Thankfully it appears Raheel Sharif and this current generation of military are going after these terrorist scums like Malik Ishaq whose creed was publicly supported by Hamid Gul and is also trying to broker peace in Afghanistan unlike his predecessors who meddled incessantly in Afghanistan and have played a role along with other foreign powers in destabilising the country.
 
Markhor said:
If course Nawaz Sharif who became our 'beloved' Prime Minister, Zia's blue eyed boy himself, benefited from licking the boots of Gul's ISI and military dictators. Funny how history panned out.
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A young Nawaz Shareef used to stand for hour outside the door of General Jillani former Governor of Punjab. Shareef khandan served army for more than decade and once they got the power now they see Army as their biggest enemy lol and never miss a chance to show their hate.
 
Markhor said:
Indeed, and the ISI, as the Supreme Court case has shown, funded the IJI's political activities in the 1990 election to defeat Bhutto.

Of course Nawaz Sharif who became our 'beloved' Prime Minister, Zia's blue eyed boy himself, benefited from licking the boots of Gul's ISI and military dictators. Funny how history panned out.

As far as the Russians invading Pakistan - this is another Zia propaganda myth designed to create fear into Pakistani citizens so they backed his war. The Soviets were having a hard time enough in Afghanistan, let alone Pakistan !

Also let's not give too much credit to Hamid Gul for 'defeating the empire' - the USSR's economy was in decline since Brezhnev and the Soviet Union was always a melting point of different nationalities that would eventually have risen up and broke away. Afghan war was one of the final blows not the decisive blow.
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The Germans have a part of the wall dedicated to him for his initial efforts which should be recognised

Spent some time listening to one or two of his speeches on youtube today, very knowledgable and affable man

May Allah SWT grant him jannah al firdous and protect him from any punishment of the grave
 
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un

Great man who spoke the truth and stood up for Pakistan until his last days, will be very much missed.

There is a lot of foolish misunderstading by many people regarding his and Pakistan's role helping the Afghan resistance against the Soviet occupiers.

Afghans didnt need to be radicalised, it's their nature to fight occupiers, there was no Saudi ideology in the last few centuries when they did the same thing.

It's very stupid for people to think he or anyone created a monster, they did what was required for the benefit of Afghanistan and Pakistan even though the US benefited. Those groups are not attacking Pakistan which faces a proxy war by foriegn elements including Indian and the US who are using meceranies and some brainwashed groups who are not in links with the Afghan Taliban. The advancement of such groups is not the fault of Zia or Gul but the later goverments, it's utterly stupid to attribute blame to people who had no control decades later. It's usually the liberal secularists or the ignorant who follow the western version of events.
 
Markhor said:
RIP, obviously not a pleasant way to go.

Couple of points on Hamid Gul:

1) He gets a lot of noteriety because he's the public face of a security establishment that has been viewed with suspicion the world over. He's been a big media personality but really his time heading the ISI was brief and his anti-Christ type image gets overblown. Gul embraced his villanous persona amongst foreigners.

2) However Gul was a representation of everything wrong with the Zia establishment of the 1980s whose short-term policies have contributed to the long-term destruction of Pakistan. The Afghans did succeed in driving out the Soviets but the blowback has been massive. Pakistan's grooming of the Afghan jihadists and importing Saudi brand of Salafism to brainwash young Pakistanis into jihad to fight alongside them has spawned a generation of hate filled indoctrinated militants who've turned their guns against the state. Militancy became acceptable under Gul and the ISI in the 80s as long as they did Pakistan's bidding. They were a 'shadow army'. But we created a Frankenstein monster that has now gone out of control. SSP, LEJ and LET are all groups that've got succour from ISI either directly or indirectly in the past and have enjoyed the cosy nexus between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

It wasn't just romantic Afghan nationalists we backed in the 80s and 90s - the ISI backed the most vicious and barbaric warlords like Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. People like Ahmad Shah Massoud who wanted an independent Afghan democracy was HATED by Pakistan as he wasn't an Islamabad puppet. Gul has blood on his hands.

Also Gul's legacy will be his sympathy for terrorists. Be it Malik Ishaq who he sat alongside with in a Difa-e-Pakistan rally (an umbrella group of all the right-wing religious nutcases in Pakistan that've at some point been funded by ISI), a known butcherer of Shias. Or even Osama Bin Laden who he claimed to have met many times.

This is not a legacy to be proud of. Too many Pakistanis have died because of his and his beloved ISI's policies. Its sad so many here are willing to overlook that.
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:facepalm:

Which planet do you live on?

So now we have an Ahmed Shah Masood supporter amongst us.

If there was an award for the most vicious and barbaric person, it would be given to him.

He was more interested in turning Afgan in a big drug factory for the world where his goons can go around and rape girls and loot people. The whole reason why Taliban took control of Afganistan and enjoyed so much support was because the Northern Alliance of Ahmed Shah Masood was a barbaric group only interested in making drugs with finance from India and Russia.

He was never an Islamabad puppet because he was never presented a cheque or asked to become one because he was busy being a puppet of the Russians and indians and reaping billions.

Pakistan had to back someone in Afganistan to have a peacefull neighbor otherwise a barbaric pro Indian Northern Alliance was threathing, therefore they made a choice which had logic at that time to back Taliban, and i don't understand the fuss everyone puts on ISI, Benezir played the biggest role in backing them.
 
<iframe frameborder="0" width="500" height="350" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x31y9c9" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31y9c9_hamid-gul-s-life-patriotism-per-hasb-e-haal-team_people" target="_blank">Hamid Gul's life & Patriotism per Hasb e Haal Team</a>
 
PetroDollars said:
:facepalm:

Which planet do you live on?

So now we have an Ahmed Shah Masood supporter amongst us.

If there was an award for the most vicious and barbaric person, it would be given to him.

He was more interested in turning Afgan in a big drug factory for the world where his goons can go around and rape girls and loot people. The whole reason why Taliban took control of Afganistan and enjoyed so much support was because the Northern Alliance of Ahmed Shah Masood was a barbaric group only interested in making drugs with finance from India and Russia.

He was never an Islamabad puppet because he was never presented a cheque or asked to become one because he was busy being a puppet of the Russians and indians and reaping billions.

Pakistan had to back someone in Afganistan to have a peacefull neighbor otherwise a barbaric pro Indian Northern Alliance was threathing, therefore they made a choice which had logic at that time to back Taliban, and i don't understand the fuss everyone puts on ISI, Benezir played the biggest role in backing them.
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good point, actually masood is the second face of karzai. He always used by exterior forces i-e USSR & India then America to kill thousands of Afghans. Peoples who are bashing Hameed Gul for his policies dnt know abc about Pak Afgh history. Before Taliban our Afghan border was as insecure as indian border. He dumped russia & indian agenda in afghanistan, our western border was somehow peaceful, then came Taliban who took charge over afghanistan it was benazir regime she sent his interior minister Naseerullah Babar in afghanistan to meet mullah umar it was the year 1994. Naseeruallah Babar was the same man being used by ZA Bhutto against Dawood Khan. Dawood was an afghan president & prime minister who always busy in conspiracies against Pakistan during 1960's & 70's. After two years in 1996 then came ISI again to support afghan Taliban as afghan governing body.
 
PetroDollars said:
:facepalm:

Which planet do you live on?

So now we have an Ahmed Shah Masood supporter amongst us.

If there was an award for the most vicious and barbaric person, it would be given to him.

He was more interested in turning Afgan in a big drug factory for the world where his goons can go around and rape girls and loot people. The whole reason why Taliban took control of Afganistan and enjoyed so much support was because the Northern Alliance of Ahmed Shah Masood was a barbaric group only interested in making drugs with finance from India and Russia.

He was never an Islamabad puppet because he was never presented a cheque or asked to become one because he was busy being a puppet of the Russians and indians and reaping billions.

Pakistan had to back someone in Afganistan to have a peacefull neighbor otherwise a barbaric pro Indian Northern Alliance was threathing, therefore they made a choice which had logic at that time to back Taliban, and i don't understand the fuss everyone puts on ISI, Benezir played the biggest role in backing them.
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Let me address the two points you raise:

1) Taliban/Northern Alliance barbarism - OK if we are to talk about barbarism remind me of what the Taliban did to President Najibullah. They dragged him behind a jeep, castrated him and then publicly hanged him from a lamppost, whereas Massoud who was an enemy of Najibullah's actually offered him a safe passage out of Kabul. Don't preach about the barbarity of the Northern Alliance (which I don't deny) and gloss over what Hamid Guls' beloved Taliban did.

After the capture of Mazar-i-Sharif in 1998 the Taliban indulged in the “frenzied killing of shop owners, cart pullers, women and children shoppers”. Women and girls were raped, and thousands of civilians, mainly ethnic Hazaras, were massacred. Murder of 26 Ismaili Shias by Taliban in May 2000 at Robatak Pass, mass execution of Shia Hazara people in Yakawlang District of Bamyan province in January 2001. The public execution in Yakaolang of at least 170 civilians, mainly from humanitarian organisations.

“According to Amnesty International, eyewitnesses reported the deliberate killing of dozens of civilians hiding in a mosque.”; murder of 10 Iranian diplomats in Mazar-e-Sharif in August 1998. In 1998, the United Nations accused the Taliban of denying emergency food by the UN’s World Food Programme to 160,000 hungry and starving people (most of whom were Hazaras and Tajiks) “for political and military reasons”. The UN said the Taliban were starving people for their military agenda and using humanitarian assistance as a weapon of war.
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Last year according to the UN the Taliban's victims were 75% civilian. Is this a proxy to be proud of ? Should we give the Taliban a "big applause" like former ISI Chief Asad Durrani said ? The same Taliban that Hamid Gul couldn't speak highly enough of?

I agree Massoud's men committed atrocities but there's no evidence of him personally ordering them. Edward Girardet, who covered Afghanistan for over three decades, was in Kabul during the war. He states that while Massoud was able to control most of his commanders well during the anti-Soviet and anti-Taliban resistance, he was not able to control every commander in Kabul. With breakdown of security in Kabul the atrocities escalated out of hand on all sides.

2) Pakistan's Afghan policy - Why is it that you bemoan other foreign interference in Afghanistan but apologise for Pakistan interference in Afghanistan ? Leave the Afghans to be, let them sort their own internal mess out. Its now for the first time since 1979 that we have a sensible Afghan policy where we're encouraging all parties to peace talks. If only we did this years earlier so fewer lives would be lost.

As far as having a peaceful western neighbour - where is it ? You think 30 years of ISI policy has been a success ? Afghanistan has never been more unstable ! Kashmir is not free. Strategic depth has never been achieved and now we have a hostile neighbour on both east and west. This policy has consumed hundreds of thousands of lives and the blowback has been massive, with millions of Afghan refugees having to be accommodated and drugs, illegal arms trade and militancy issues has never been worse.
 
Rest in peace.

Maybe a hero to Pakistanis, but someone whose policies quite clearly have ruined peace across borders and ruined so many young lives.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Rest in peace.

Maybe a hero to Pakistanis, but someone whose policies quite clearly have ruined peace across borders and ruined so many young lives.
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He tried, unsuccessfully, to break Punjab as some sort of 'revenge' for India assisting the Bangladeshi freedom fighters and was instrumental in upping the violence in Jammu and Kashmir which at the end of the day only led to the the deaths of the very people his agency and state claimed they wanted to help.

Even until the end his hatred and paranoia of Indians, Hindus, and Jews (the latter who he blamed for 9/11 and the evil Hindus were of course responsible for the Peshawar school attack) was as strong as ever. However many Pakistanis seem to see the man as some sort of hero which is their prerogative however several of the fires lit by men such as Gul and Asad Durrani in the 80s and 90s are now coming back to wreck havoc in Pakistan and threaten the nation's very existence yet still these men and the agencies they represent have supporters.

Nevertheless the man is now dead and I hope his family find the strength to deal with his passing.
 
Last edited:
Markhor said:
Let me address the two points you raise:

1) Taliban/Northern Alliance barbarism - OK if we are to talk about barbarism remind me of what the Taliban did to President Najibullah. They dragged him behind a jeep, castrated him and then publicly hanged him from a lamppost, whereas Massoud who was an enemy of Najibullah's actually offered him a safe passage out of Kabul. Don't preach about the barbarity of the Northern Alliance (which I don't deny) and gloss over what Hamid Guls' beloved Taliban did.



Last year according to the UN the Taliban's victims were 75% civilian. Is this a proxy to be proud of ? Should we give the Taliban a "big applause" like former ISI Chief Asad Durrani said ? The same Taliban that Hamid Gul couldn't speak highly enough of?

I agree Massoud's men committed atrocities but there's no evidence of him personally ordering them. Edward Girardet, who covered Afghanistan for over three decades, was in Kabul during the war. He states that while Massoud was able to control most of his commanders well during the anti-Soviet and anti-Taliban resistance, he was not able to control every commander in Kabul. With breakdown of security in Kabul the atrocities escalated out of hand on all sides.

2) Pakistan's Afghan policy - Why is it that you bemoan other foreign interference in Afghanistan but apologise for Pakistan interference in Afghanistan ? Leave the Afghans to be, let them sort their own internal mess out. Its now for the first time since 1979 that we have a sensible Afghan policy where we're encouraging all parties to peace talks. If only we did this years earlier so fewer lives would be lost.

As far as having a peaceful western neighbour - where is it ? You think 30 years of ISI policy has been a success ? Afghanistan has never been more unstable ! Kashmir is not free. Strategic depth has never been achieved and now we have a hostile neighbour on both east and west. This policy has consumed hundreds of thousands of lives and the blowback has been massive, with millions of Afghan refugees having to be accommodated and drugs, illegal arms trade and militancy issues has never been worse.
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Bhaijaan, first of all, let me make it clear, i hate Taliban and Mullahs more than you or anybody on this forum so don't see me as a Taliban supporter which im not, BUT the FACT IS that Pakistan supporting Taliban in the 90s was a political and strategic decision which made sense at the time.

Secondly, Pakistan interference in Afganistan was necessary as enemies of the Pakistan were already interfering there and it only made sense for Pakistan to interfere to counter them. Had they not and Northern Alliance come to power you people would be bashing the ISI non stop for not doing anything when they could have stopped them.

Also again stop blaming ISI for everything, Taliban support in Pakistan was all started under Benazirs anti-establishment regime. Its now become a fashion to put all ills and blame on ISI without checking facts.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un

Great man who spoke the truth and stood up for Pakistan until his last days, will be very much missed.

There is a lot of foolish misunderstading by many people regarding his and Pakistan's role helping the Afghan resistance against the Soviet occupiers.

Afghans didnt need to be radicalised, it's their nature to fight occupiers, there was no Saudi ideology in the last few centuries when they did the same thing.

It's very stupid for people to think he or anyone created a monster, they did what was required for the benefit of Afghanistan and Pakistan even though the US benefited. Those groups are not attacking Pakistan which faces a proxy war by foriegn elements including Indian and the US who are using meceranies and some brainwashed groups who are not in links with the Afghan Taliban. The advancement of such groups is not the fault of Zia or Gul but the later goverments, it's utterly stupid to attribute blame to people who had no control decades later. It's usually the liberal secularists or the ignorant who follow the western version of events.
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Okay, so America got the full destruction and collapse of the Soviet Union and total global domination. Saudi Arabia got to spread their brand of Islam to Pakistan and growing influence throughout the Islamic world. Pakistan got.............. TTP? Yay us.
 
Guys like Mr Gul are real cancer of conservative culture in Pakistan. Western education, western economy is good for there kids but not for poor Pakistani and Afghanis, why??

If you are so much in love with 6th century culture, why your kids still live in west?

Why poor people have to live with 6th century madrasas while his kids go to evil west... One culture for elite and other for poor. They live in 21st century and poor is thrown back to sixth century culture. What kind of society you are trying to create?? - you want to rule the world with Technology(Nuke bombs), but sending future generations to Stone Age culture and education.

I am baffled at how they convince themselves about all this non sense.


Islamization of Pakistan has done nothing good, it has become more backward, illiterate and less tolerant. These Generals have ruins the country far more than any politicians.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Strike Rate said:
Aik saal guzer gaya....
Click to expand...


I have lots of Objections on his certain Ideologies and Actions but that was because he was misguided religiously.


He was a great father, a great husband and a great Patriot Pakistani. After hearing his One Speech my Heart gave gawahee that from Heart he was a great Man and because of wrong religious interpretations he was taught he did some mistakes and blunders but his intensiona weren't bad but results of those actions were negative.



Just watch his 26 min Speech he delivered as a 77 years old at a graduation ceremony and i Promise Your Pakistaaneeat would Ooze out of you and you would wish to Salute the Solidier who said he has not retired and he is not tired.


Note : Avoid the Radicalist Part of Janooniat Jazbateeat ;) and do not watch if you are under 20 :) otherwise Janoon zayada berh gaya tou ghalt jaga recruit na hojana Garam Khoon ho k ;-)


Strike Rate Note isnt for you :)
 
Today is the 2nd death anniversary of Gen Hamid Gul.
 
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