Greatest ever South African cricketers

[Junaids]

Clive Rice should have made this list, even if he didn't get to play Test cricket.

Also, Smith over Amla.

With respect to Graeme Smith and Clive Rice, and I did agonise about both........

Graeme Smith had the good fortune to captain a very strong team, and he was a good batsman. But he wasn't as good a batsman as the top drawer of South African batsmen - Pollock, Richards, Amla and De Villiers. Which is why I couldn't sneak him into the top ten.
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] quite correctly raised the issue of Clive Rice's omission. And I have two reasons for omitting him.

Firstly, I'm clear that Mike Procter was a significantly better all-rounder. I think that we all agree that Imran Khan finished his career recognised by everyone as a greater all-rounder than Kapil Dev, Ian Botham and Richard Hadlee.

Now, I accept that Imran Khan was a late developer, who peaked from the age of 30 (the 1982 series away to England).

But Imran Khan (at first Worcestershire and then Sussex) and Mike Procter (at Gloucestershire) were contemporaries on the county circuit. And it wasn't until 1979 - when Procter was 33 and Imran was 27 - that Imran was first recognised as being the better bowler, and at no point was Imran recognised as being the better batsman of the two.

So I'm clear that Mike Procter was a better all-rounder than Clive Rice ever was.

And there is another aspect here. Clive Rice never achieved anything as an international cricketer, not just in "official" Tests - which he obviously couldn't play - but also in Rebel Tests, of which he played plenty between the ages of 32 and 36 with pretty poor returns, as you will see.

Rice played 16 Rebel Tests, without a single century or 5 wicket innings haul.

By the way, those of you who disparage Rebel Tests, shouldn't. The South African players and public were starved of international cricket rather like Pakistanis today. The result was frenzied, sold-out stadia and the players treating the matches as bigger than real Tests!

CLIVE RICE IN "REBEL" TESTS

1981-82 v England

First Test
1
Did not bowl

Second Test
12
Did not bowl

Third Test
9 and 39*
Did not bowl

1982-83 v Sri Lanka
First Test
19
Did not bowl

Second Test
37
Did not bowl

1982-83 v West Indies

First Test
16 & 6
Did not bowl

Second Test
38 & 12
Did not bowl

1983-84 v West Indies

First Test
1-65
7

Second Test
1-24 & 1-21
71*

Third Test
4 & 47
1-46 & 3-50

Fourth Test
23 & 12
1-35 & 0-9


1985-86 v Australia

First Test
11 & 9
1-21

Second Test
21 & 27*
0-21 & 1-30

Third Test
9 & 50
3-43 & 3-8

1986-87 v Australia

First Test
61 & 18
4-19 & 3-37

Second Test
72
1-60

Third Test
0-32 & 2-38
22 & 0

Fourth Test
1-43 & 1-25
26

 

[Junaids]

Put them #1 and #2 in the supertests ranking and no one will argue with you. They did absolutely nothing in test matches and therefore do not deserve a mention here.

Why are we acting like they were victims of apartheid? They were white cricketers, right? Even though they might not have discriminated against Black people, their community was punished for a perfectly valid reason and people need to stop viewing them as heroes.

With respect, my friend, you're missing the point.

The SuperTests serve as a point of reference for two reasons.

Firstly, every single player who played in them recognised them as the toughest, highest quality cricket they ever played. Tougher than any official Tests - of which the likes of Viv Richards, Dennis Lillee and the Chappells and Imran Khan played plenty.

Yet Barry Richards and Mike Procter stood out as far better players at that highest of all levels - ever - than accepted ATGs like Viv Richards, Greg Chappell, Dennis Lillee and Imran Khan.

Secondly, the fact that Barry Richards and Mike Procter had SuperTest records in the period 1977-79 which were so similar to their official Test records a decade earlier proves two things. Firstly, their official records were an accurate reflection of their greatness, rather than an artifact of a small sample size. Secondly, it proves that they maintained their skills and their greatness during that period.

I am no friend of Apartheid. But neither were Barry Richards and Mike Procter.

(Ironically, the same can't be said of Shaun Pollock's deeply Christian dad Peter Pollock, the great fast bowler of the 1960s, who notoriously bowled Basil D'Oliveira a beamer when they played in England, out of anger for, well, it's not my job to explain.)

 

[Mamoon]

He did perform earlier with the bat as captain but once he went out of form, it was looking difficult for him to retain his touch. The pressure of captaincy was having an impact. The feet weren't moving and run-scoring was very tough for him. His batting seems to rely a lot on clarity of mind (I feel this is what enables him to play some of his very long innings) and that is difficult to achieve when you're thinking about what moves you need to be taking to win a Test match. It wouldn't have been good for the team for him to continue as captain anyway, seeing that he is not very strong tactically.

He is not a similar character to Misbah, Clarke, and Cook. There is a difference between being tough characters in the dressing room and being able to uplift a team, as they are and the type of person he is. He comes across as a reserved person who prefers to be a contributing member rather than a leader. When I found out in 2014 that he was captain, I was very surprised. He can lead from the front with the bat (in the longer formats) but he doesn't seem like the type to give inspirational/motivational speeches to his team.

I will sum it up in one sentence: he is a weak leader.

 

[Mamoon]

ridiculous and biased posting to get through you hatred is ridiculous. Everyone knew that SAF would not be the same team once Smith and Kallis retires. They became number one team because of them not despite them. One year's performance is irrelevant. Everyone knew SAF was entering in a torsional phase and would find it hard to replace these two legends. Your biased theory that Amla took the team when it was on top and quit it when it was on a decline is nothing but your personal bs!

Lol@Tendulkar has more things going which covered his failures that how he quit the captaincy! Another Baloney! You were talking how inspirational it was quit captaincy and not take the bull by horn and I pointed out that Tendulkar did that too that means you find him inspirational too? As expected you beat around the bushed because you have no substance in your post but just hatred for South Africa and Amla.

That is irrelevant whether Dhoni still captains ODIs or not he left Tests in mid of a tour and left a young team hanging.

Lot of waffle like personal bs, hatred etc. etc. but little meaningful content. I pointed out in clear terms that both Smith and Kallis were over the hill at that point, so their loss wasn't as huge as some people indulging in revision today make them seem to be.

What is the logical fallacy of bringing Tendulkar into this when you cannot defend Amla's weak leadership? If Amla reaches Tendulkar's level of greatness with the bat and in spires millions of people and enjoys the stature Tendulkar does, he too will become inspirational like him. Personally speaking, I find great leaders more inspiring than great but timid cricketers.

Dhoni left a young team hanging and it wasn't the right thing to do, but juxtaposing the two is irrelevant because he wipes the floor with Amla as far as captaincy is concerned.

At least he didn't quite in 2011 after the infamous 8-0 because he was still a performing player. He only quit when he realized that he is no longer good enough as a player to play Test cricket. He didn't surrender captaincy, he retired.

Amla on the contrary is still in his peak years, and has at least 3-4 good years of Test cricket left. He chickened out because he is a weak leader with no heart, and let's just leave him at that.

 

[Ab Fan]

Any list with Barry Richards in it should be thrown to the side like Mohammad Asif's career.

He played 4 tests. I know he did well there and that he did well in WSC. But he didn't play test cricket and that is designated as the highest form of the game. He sadly didn't play enough to make any list.

I can consider him one of the greatest commentators of all time though. A very underrated and knowledgeable commentator with a very good voice.

My list from the players I have seen would be:

Jacques Kallis
Dale Steyn
Shaun Pollock
Allan Donald
Graeme Smith
AB de Villiers
Hashim Amla
Makhaya Ntini
Gary Kirsten
Herschelle Gibbs


If only Cronje didn't fix, he would have made the list comfortably.

Since the list is about the greatest cricketers I would take this one.A very good list among those played post 90s era.

 

[Abdullah719]

I will sum it up in one sentence: he is a weak leader.

I don't really disagree on that. Not everyone is capable of being a leader.

 

[Strike Rate]

[/b]

I will sum it up in one sentence: he is a weak leader.

Not everyone is an Imran Khan to prove others wrong who said fast bowlers can't be good captains Even the so called greatest bat after Don Bradman failed as a leader

 

[Mamoon]

Not everyone is an Imran Khan to prove others wrong who said fast bowlers can't be good captains Even the so called greatest bat after Don Bradman failed as a leader

Yes he was also a weak captain, even Indians admit it. However, some people here get their jimmies rustled if Bhai is called out for it, and will play other players to the table to defend his honor.

 

[Strike Rate]

Yes he was also a weak captain, even Indians admit it. However, some people here get their jimmies rustled if Bhai is called out for it, and will play other players to the table to defend his honor.

Agree just because you are a great bat doesn't mean you are going to be a great/good leader too and there is no shame in admitting it.

meanwhile rabada get his 7th wicket in this innings he is looking so good and i guess he will make it 8 in this innings england is 9 down

 

[Mamoon]

Agree just because you are a great bat doesn't mean you are going to be a great/good leader too and there is no shame in admitting it.

meanwhile rabada get his 7th wicket in this innings he is looking so good and i guess he will make it 8 in this innings england is 9 down

Rabada will be their new spearhead. Amazing talent.

 

[Strike Rate]

Rabada will be their new spearhead. Amazing talent.

Yea i really like this guy and i am surprised to see hardly any discussion over him here at PP while we hype medicore players to extreme levels. He is doign really good and is very young so he can play for at least 10-12 years if handeled proerly and no major injuries

 

[Abdullah719]

Yea i really like this guy and i am surprised to see hardly any discussion over him here at PP while we hype medicore players to extreme levels. He is doign really good and is very young so he can play for at least 10-12 years if handeled proerly and no major injuries

You know what would have happened if he was a Pakistani.

 

[Strike Rate]

You know what would have happened if he was a Pakistani.

A thread with 50 pages in less than 2 days

 

[Mamoon]

You know what would have happened if he was a Pakistani.

Or a bhai.

 

[Anfield]

Lot of waffle like personal bs, hatred etc. etc. but little meaningful content. I pointed out in clear terms that both Smith and Kallis were over the hill at that point, so their loss wasn't as huge as some people indulging in revision today make them seem to be.

What is the logical fallacy of bringing Tendulkar into this when you cannot defend Amla's weak leadership? If Amla reaches Tendulkar's level of greatness with the bat and in spires millions of people and enjoys the stature Tendulkar does, he too will become inspirational like him. Personally speaking, I find great leaders more inspiring than great but timid cricketers.

Dhoni left a young team hanging and it wasn't the right thing to do, but juxtaposing the two is irrelevant because he wipes the floor with Amla as far as captaincy is concerned.

At least he didn't quite in 2011 after the infamous 8-0 because he was still a performing player. He only quit when he realized that he is no longer good enough as a player to play Test cricket. He didn't surrender captaincy, he retired.

Amla on the contrary is still in his peak years, and has at least 3-4 good years of Test cricket left. He chickened out because he is a weak leader with no heart, and let's just leave him at that.

Tebdulkar's and Dhonis example is very relevant because it tells you these things happen in cricket and if someone believe his captaincy is not upto the mark and effecting his own performance it's better to give up the captaincy then making everyone suffer.

Your hate for Amla, SAF and beards are very well documented and clouding your judgment. I mentioned a direct quote from Steyn that Amla is an inspiration for everyone but you rebutted it saying he can't be an inspiration for anyone. Your hate for him so much that you believe Steyn was just lying, right? If you had mentioned he wasn't an inspiration for YOU then that had be fine but as soon as you generalized your hate came out.

 

[Mamoon]

Tebdulkar's and Dhonis example is very relevant because it tells you these things happen in cricket and if someone believe his captaincy is not upto the mark and effecting his own performance it's better to give up the captaincy then making everyone suffer.

Your hate for Amla, SAF and beards are very well documented and clouding your judgment. I mentioned a direct quote from Steyn that Amla is an inspiration for everyone but you rebutted it saying he can't be an inspiration for anyone. Your hate for him so much that you believe Steyn was just lying, right? If you had mentioned he wasn't an inspiration for YOU then that had be fine but as soon as you generalized your hate came out.

That was before he chickened out of captaincy mid-series with the team in crisis, showing he has no stomach for a fight and is a rabbit in headlights out of his comfort zone.

Difficult to see how he is going to inspire others, especially the younger generation moving forward after such a show of cowardice.

Every cricketer who captains South Africa in the future needs to be totally opposite of this coward.

 

[Anfield]

That was before he chickened out of captaincy mid-series with the team in crisis, showing he has no stomach for a fight and is a rabbit in headlights out of his comfort zone.

Difficult to see how he is going to inspire others, especially the younger generation moving forward after such a show of cowardice.

Every cricketer who captains South Africa in the future needs to be totally opposite of him in character.

Captaincy is one part of someone's career. Not everyone is captaincy material. It's his work ethics probably which Steyn admires? Maybe you should message him and ask how could he admire someone with a beard?

 

[Mamoon]

Captaincy is one part of someone's career. Not everyone is captaincy material. It's his work ethics probably which Steyn admires? Maybe you should message him and ask how could he admire someone with a beard?

I am not taking about him inspiring others with his silky beard and reading Quran in the bus, but with his cricketing career. He has been a great batsman and a very hardworking one, but his show of cowardice as captain will remain a stain on his career and should certainly tarnish his legacy as a cricketer.

 

[Pantani]

Except, except, except.

Barry Richards and Mike Procter both played SuperTests nine year after South Africa was thrown out of cricket.

In the SuperTests they only played against West Indies and Australia - the next best two teams of the time - and their batting and bowling averages respectively were almost identical to in their official Tests:

Barry Richards batting averages:
Tests 1969-70: 72.57
SuperTests 1977-79: 79.25

Mike Procter bowling averages:
Tests: 15.02
SuperTests: 18.55

And Graeme Pollock played the unofficial West Indies team in 1983-85, which had the second best bowling attack in the world behind the real West Indies, and was still scoring centuries in his forties.

Nobody cares about these 'what ifs' like G. Pollock and Richards and Procter and whoever else. This is the same sort of fallacy as saying if Shane Bond played 600+ internationals like Sachin did he would have captured 3000 international wickets. It may be fair enough to pick them in an all time great South African XI, but if you're going to pick the best South African cricketer ever, you have to select somebody who played at least 75 test matches, non-negotiable.

Lets stick to what everybody knows to be unimpeachable facts, the achievements of those South African cricketers who actually had substantial, lengthy careers at international level and played test matches in all test countries. Among those, the best South African cricketer ever is Dale Steyn, by a landslide.

Though I wonder if Rabada will dethrone him by the end of his career.

 

[dandapinda]

Nobody cares about these 'what ifs' like G. Pollock and Richards and Procter and whoever else. This is the same sort of fallacy as saying if Shane Bond played 600+ internationals like Sachin did he would have captured 3000 international wickets. It may be fair enough to pick them in an all time great South African XI, but if you're going to pick the best South African cricketer ever, you have to select somebody who played at least 75 test matches, non-negotiable.

Lets stick to what everybody knows to be unimpeachable facts, the achievements of those South African cricketers who actually had substantial, lengthy careers at international level and played test matches in all test countries. Among those, the best South African cricketer ever is Dale Steyn, by a landslide.

Though I wonder if Rabada will dethrone him by the end of his career.

Cricketer means all form of games & Batting/Bowling/Keeping etc....Steyn is ATG in tests but only good in limited overs.

Kallis should be thier greatest ever cricketer all forms combined,followed by AB & Steyn.

 

[Pantani]

Cricketer means all form of games & Batting/Bowling/Keeping etc....Steyn is ATG in tests but only good in limited overs.

Kallis should be thier greatest ever cricketer all forms combined,followed by AB & Steyn.

I thought we were exclusively talking about tests since there are some guys who never played an ODI like Pollock, being named. As a test cricketer I rate Steyn as the best because he is arguably the greatest fast bowler of all time, Kallis etc. were all good players but they never dominated their role as batsman or bowler in the same way Steyn has done - he's been inside the top 2 test match bowlers for about a decade unbroken.

Also I consider Steyn to be the GOAT fast bowler because of his strike rate. A wicket every 7 overs! A bowler like that is a marvel to have at your disposal as a captain, pretty much every time you bring him on for a spell you can expect him to take a wicket.

In ODI cricket I would pick Klusner as the best ever South African, closely followed by AB.

 

[Chrish]

Why bring ODIs into this?

 

[Mobashir]

Since re-admission:
1. Steyn
2. Smith
3. Kallis
4. Donald
5. Pollock
6. ABDV
7. Amla
8. Gibbs
9. Kirsten
10. Boucher.

 

[SL_Fan]

I’ll go with

Kallis
Steyn
Donald
G Pollock
B Richards
S Pollock
Amla
Smith
Rice
Procter

I would put AB right up there already but his stocks have plummeted big time for mine after all this talk about giving up Tests at a time when SA need him the most. Let's see what happens from here.

 

[Junaids]

I thought we were exclusively talking about tests since there are some guys who never played an ODI like Pollock, being named. As a test cricketer I rate Steyn as the best because he is arguably the greatest fast bowler of all time, Kallis etc. were all good players but they never dominated their role as batsman or bowler in the same way Steyn has done - he's been inside the top 2 test match bowlers for about a decade unbroken.

Also I consider Steyn to be the GOAT fast bowler because of his strike rate. A wicket every 7 overs! A bowler like that is a marvel to have at your disposal as a captain, pretty much every time you bring him on for a spell you can expect him to take a wicket.

In ODI cricket I would pick Klusner as the best ever South African, closely followed by AB.

Actually, Graeme Pollock played in the first ever One Day International, against Australia at Johannesburg in 1966-67. The match notably was the international debut of Barry Richards.

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1960S/1966-67/AUS_IN_RSA/AUS_RSA_04MAR1967.html

Because there was no official ODI format it has somehow been omitted from the records, and Pollock scored 132 not out from 69 balls.

And by the way, it is a pretty twisted world in which Bangladesh v Zimbabwe or Pakistan v Sri Lanka is a Test match, but the SuperTests were not.

It's pretty obvious that in the period 1977-79 the "official" Australia matches did not meet Test standard, but the "unofficial" SuperTests did.

 

[MMHS]

Those of you who listen to BBC Test Match Special may have noticed that in the last week interviews with both Graeme Pollock and Mike Procter have been described as being with the "greatest ever South African cricketer."

So here is my version:

1 Mike Procter: terrific balanced all-rounder, much better bowler than Kallis.
2 Barry Richards: greatest batsman of the last 65 years.
3 Graeme Pollock: legendary left-hander.
4 Jacques Kallis: great batting all-rounder.
5 Neil Adcock: greatest Saffa pace bowler.
6 AB De Villiers: ATG batsman
7 Dale Steyn: ATG bowler
8 Shaun Pollock: great bowling all-rounder
9 Hashim Amla: great batsman
10 Allan Donald: exceptional quick bowler.

It's difficult to rank cricketers of different era, but if I make a Test XII for SAf, probably most, if not all your players 'll be there -

BA Richards, G Smith (C)
J Kallis, G Pollock, AB Devillers
MJ Procter, Shaun Pollock, M Boucher (WK)
D Styen, A Donald, H Tayfield
---------------------------------------------

Not sure about 12th man, but, I probably 'll pick Albury Faulkner over Amla as the 12th man & Adcock doesn't make it over Styen & Donald - Tayfield plays as the spinner, as you can't go with 5 pacers only, but Adcock indeed was a much better bowler than Haugh Tayfield. I do rate Amla as batsman marginally over Smith, so probably your rating is fine for both Adcock & Amla (but Adcock under Donald, Pollock & Styen), but in my team Smith comes as Captain while, Barry Richards is his deputy deputy.

Adcock & Amla is there as 13th & 14th man in the squad.

 

[SL_Fan]

B Richards
Smith (c)
Amla
Kallis
G Pollock
AB (wk)
Rice/Tayfield
Procter
S Pollock
Steyn
Donald

One heck of a line-up that.

 

[Junaids]

I’ll go with

Kallis
Steyn
Donald
G Pollock
B Richards
S Pollock
Amla
Smith
Rice
Procter

I would put AB right up there already but his stocks have plummeted big time for mine after all this talk about giving up Tests at a time when SA need him the most. Let's see what happens from here.

May I refer you to Clive Rice's 17 unofficial Tests, as I listed above plus MCC v Rest of the World 1987?

Matches: 17
Batting: 742 runs @ 30.92, 0 hundreds, 5 fifties.
Bowling: 28 wickets @ 24.29, 0 5 wicket innings 0 Ten wicket matches.

I'm well aware that Clive Rice was good enough to be in the South African Top Ten, and that his averages are probably fairly representative of what he would have done in official Test matches.

But how can an all-rounder be in their all-time Top Ten if he played 17 unofficial Tests without ever making a century or taking 5 wickets in an innings?

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

I just don't think that Clive Rice achieved enough as an (unofficial) international cricketer to merit a place in their Top Ten. Sorry.

 

[MMHS]

May I refer you and [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] to Clive Rice's 17 unofficial Tests, as I listed above plus MCC v Rest of the World 1987?

Matches: 17
Batting: 742 runs @ 30.92, 0 hundreds, 5 fifties.
Bowling: 28 wickets @ 24.29, 0 5 wicket innings 0 Ten wicket matches.

I'm well aware that Clive Rice was good enough to be in the South African Top Ten, and that his averages are probably fairly representative of what he would have done in official Test matches.

But how can an all-rounder be in their all-time Top Ten if he played 17 unofficial Tests without ever making a century or taking 5 wickets in an innings?

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

I just don't think that Clive Rice achieved enough as an (unofficial) international cricketer to merit a place in their Top Ten. Sorry.

Actually, figures from that 17 matches are really poor to be honest. Average is a bit deceiving as he has only 28 wickets in 17 match with no 5 fers, while 30 average doesn't make him even close to MoHa - he was much better players than this.

 

[SL_Fan]

May I refer you to Clive Rice's 17 unofficial Tests, as I listed above plus MCC v Rest of the World 1987?

Matches: 17
Batting: 742 runs @ 30.92, 0 hundreds, 5 fifties.
Bowling: 28 wickets @ 24.29, 0 5 wicket innings 0 Ten wicket matches.

I'm well aware that Clive Rice was good enough to be in the South African Top Ten, and that his averages are probably fairly representative of what he would have done in official Test matches.

But how can an all-rounder be in their all-time Top Ten if he played 17 unofficial Tests without ever making a century or taking 5 wickets in an innings?

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

I just don't think that Clive Rice achieved enough as an (unofficial) international cricketer to merit a place in their Top Ten. Sorry.

He was what in his mid to late 30s in those.

 

[Junaids]

He was what in his mid to late 30s in those.

Yes, which is why he bowled himself so sparingly. Rice never learned to cut his pace and bowl within himself, so he just reduced his workload as he got older.

My point is that Graeme Pollock and Barry Richards scored mountains of runs in their short international careers and Mike Procter took loads of very cheap wickets.

And all three performed when they were as old as Clive Rice was when he played unofficial international cricket.

Clive Rice has the same excuse of advanced age, but come on!

30 "Test" innings without a score higher than 72?

28 wickets in 17 international matches?

It's a disappointing return, in my opinion.

 

[SL_Fan]

Well not everyone performs well towards the back-end of their careers. So I don't think it's fair to use just those numbers to judge him as a player. Didn't he win some A/R comp in Eng during the mid 80s as well. It's all guess work any way so if you don't think he should be in the top 10 that's fair enough.

 

[Sachin136]

It's difficult to rank cricketers of different era, but if I make a Test XII for SAf, probably most, if not all your players 'll be there -

BA Richards, G Smith (C)
J Kallis, G Pollock, AB Devillers
MJ Procter, Shaun Pollock, M Boucher (WK)
D Styen, A Donald, H Tayfield
---------------------------------------------

Not sure about 12th man, but, I probably 'll pick Albury Faulkner over Amla as the 12th man & Adcock doesn't make it over Styen & Donald - Tayfield plays as the spinner, as you can't go with 5 pacers only, but Adcock indeed was a much better bowler than Haugh Tayfield. I do rate Amla as batsman marginally over Smith, so probably your rating is fine for both Adcock & Amla (but Adcock under Donald, Pollock & Styen), but in my team Smith comes as Captain while, Barry Richards is his deputy deputy.

Adcock & Amla is there as 13th & 14th man in the squad.

You rate Amla slightly over Smith, but you still would have AB in the team leaving Amla out?

 

[MMHS]

You rate Amla slightly over Smith, but you still would have AB in the team leaving Amla out?

It's the spot - Amla can't come in top 3 over Smith, Richards & Kallis; while AB is better at 5 than him.

However, AB is going through a bad patch, but he is an ATG, even in Test.

 

[Sachin136]

It's the spot - Amla can't come in top 3 over Smith, Richards & Kallis; while AB is better at 5 than him.

However, AB is going through a bad patch, but he is an ATG, even in Test.

Kallis mostly played at 4.

 

[MMHS]

Kallis mostly played at 4.

None is better at 4 in SAF than G Pollock. But, I think Jaques has lots of (if not highest) innings at 3. Viv Richards dropped to 4 at 32, and, not many in world cricket batted at 3 after 30. I think, in his best days, Jaques was No. 3 & he is better than any SAF on that spot.

 

[SL_Fan]

Actually, figures from that 17 matches are really poor to be honest. Average is a bit deceiving as he has only 28 wickets in 17 match with no 5 fers, while 30 average doesn't make him even close to MoHa - he was much better players than this.

28 wkts in 19 innings actually. For more of a batting A/R in his late 30s not a bad effort I think.

 

[MMHS]

28 wkts in 19 innings actually. For more of a batting A/R in his late 30s not a bad effort I think.

But, does average of 30 with bat makes him batting all-rounder? Late 30's I can understand, but we haven't factored "unofficial" Test either.

 

[SL_Fan]

Will be interested to see where he batted in those.

 

[Junaids]

Will be interested to see where he batted in those.

At number 6 generally. Remember, Clive Rice only had 6 not outs in 17 unofficial Tests - and two of them were in his last one at Lords in 1987.

Overall, he batted 30 times in unofficial Tests and was not out 6 times. Yet in 24 innings in which he was dismissed, he never even reached 80.

South Africa has had several all-rounders in their history who have made decisive contributions in official and unoffical Tests: Eddie Barlow, Mike Procter, Shaun Pollock and Jacques Kallis spring to mind.

But Clive Rice played 17 unofficial Tests without really imposing himself upon any of them. And that's why I can't rank him as high as Barlow, Procter, Pollock or Kallis.

 

[The_Odd_One]

1. Kallis
2. Steyn
3. S Pollock
4. G Pollock
5. AB
6. Smith
7. Donald
8. Amla
9. Kirsten
10. Rhodes

 

[Buffet]

I think Steyn will occupy that spot.

 

[sajeebmcj]

with out any doubt kallis is the best south african cricketers and the best cricketer post 90. he is also one of the best five cricketers of all time.

 

[Rayyman]

Kallis, Steyn, De Villiers, Smith, Amla, Donald, Kirsten, Rhodes

 

[Ab Fan]

Top 10 South African cricketers of all-time

What would be your top ten SA cricketers of all-time?

Feel free to whether put Barry or Graeme (older one) in it or not.

 

[Junaids]

1. Barry Richards
2. Graeme Pollock
3. Mike Procter
4. Jacques Kallis
5. AB De Villiers
6. Neil Adcock
7. Clive Rice
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Peter Kirsten
10. Eddie Barlow

 

[Junaids]

We just don’t know Basil D’Oliveira’s true age.

He was probably already 40 when he played his first Test for England - not the official “35”.

That means he averaged 40 between the true ages of 40 and 46, and that he may well have been the greatest South African cricketer of all.

 

[Rahul1]

1. Barry Richards
2. Graeme Pollock
3. Mike Procter
4. Jacques Kallis
5. AB De Villiers
6. Neil Adcock
7. Clive Rice
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Peter Kirsten
10. Eddie Barlow

So Graeme Smith is not even among the top ten 10 South African cricketers ever. OK.

 

[Junaids]

So Graeme Smith is not even among the top ten 10 South African cricketers ever. OK.

I don’t think he’s even close, to be honest.

I’d put Jimmy Cook well ahead of him as an opener - miles ahead of him in fact.

And I’d probably also stick in Allan Donald, Denis Lindsay and Hashim Amla ahead of Smith too.

 

[Ab Fan]

1. Barry Richards
2. Graeme Pollock
3. Mike Procter
4. Jacques Kallis
5. AB De Villiers
6. Neil Adcock
7. Clive Rice
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Peter Kirsten
10. Eddie Barlow

No Smith, no Donald, no Steyn? And who are these names-Peter Kirsten or Eddie Barlow?

Atleast I have heard of Dudley Nourse who unfortunately doesn't get a mention in your XI.

 

[Junaids]

So Graeme Smith is not even among the top ten 10 South African cricketers ever. OK.

And I forgot Vintcent Van Der Bijl, who is probably third behind Richards and Procter.

He was indistinguishable from Glenn McGrath or Curtly Ambrose.

 

[Junaids]

No Smith, no Donald, no Steyn? And who are these names-Peter Kirsten or Eddie Barlow?

Atleast I have heard of Dudley Nourse who unfortunately doesn't get a mention in your XI.

Good point.

Steyn may well be round about where I placed Kirsten and Barlow.

Donald would be just below that, and Graeme Smith would be below Jimmy Cook.

 

[Ab Fan]

My all-time SA XI would be:-

Smith(C)
Amla
Kallis
G Pollock
AB de Villiers
Mike Procter
Boucher(wkt)
Pollock
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald

 

[Ab Fan]

Good point.

Steyn may well be round about where I placed Kirsten and Barlow.

Donald would be just below that, and Graeme Smith would be below Jimmy Cook.

Graeme Smith would walk into SA XI as a captain only. A great test batsmen as well irrespective of his weakness. Very strong mentally.

What about Dudley Nourse and I have heard of some very high quality all-rounders from SA in the past?

 

[Rahul1]

No Smith, no Donald, no Steyn? And who are these names-Peter Kirsten or Eddie Barlow?

Atleast I have heard of Dudley Nourse who unfortunately doesn't get a mention in your XI.

I didn't even notice that Steyn and Donald are nowhere to be seen but some random nobodies are there.

 

[Hasan123]

1. Barry Richards
2. Graeme Pollock
3. Mike Procter
4. Jacques Kallis
5. AB De Villiers
6. Neil Adcock
7. Clive Rice
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Peter Kirsten
10. Eddie Barlow

No Steyn ,no Donald,and no Smith? Wow.

 

[Ab Fan]

I can understand the logic behind putting Richards, Pollock and Procter because these three players have had great peer-reputation and were clearly among the standout performers of their generation.

But as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] clearly explained yesterday that this whole hype of older era player is rubbish and with the kind of technique they had, they won't have been able to survive in modern era of cricket.

Hence, it is absurd to put some random names who arent even talked of ahead of some other big names like Donald or Steyn who had a full-fledged career(Donald missed out his peak years but still played enough) and achieved a lot more in their career.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I can understand the logic behind putting Richards, Pollock and Procter because these three players have had great peer-reputation and were clearly among the standout performers of their generation.

But as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] clearly explained yesterday that this whole hype of older era player is rubbish and with the kind of technique they had, they won't have been able to survive in modern era of cricket.

Hence, it is absurd to put some random names who arent even talked of ahead of some other big names like Donald or Steyn who had a full-fledged career(Donald missed out his peak years but still played enough) and achieved a lot more in their career.

It's atrocious to even put the county 'legends' name alongside international veterans. Some people really do not possess critical thinking.

 

[Chrish]

Kallis is the greatest SA Cricketer followed by Steyn.

 

[Ab Fan]

It's atrocious to even put the county 'legends' name alongside international veterans. Some people really do not possess critical thinking.

Agreed completely.

 

[The_Odd_One]

1. Smith
2. Richards
3. Kallis
4. Pollock
5. AB
6. De Kock
7. Faulkner
8. Procter
9. Pollock
10. Steyn
11. Donald

Picked De Kock over Boucher because De Kock is not a much inferior keeper but has a hiegher ceiling as a batsman.

 

[Junaids]

Actually, I love your idea of doing it as an actual playing eleven.

1. Barry Richards
2. Jimmy Cook
3. Peter Kirsten
4. Jacques Kallis (rmf)
5. Graeme Pollock
6. AB De Villiers (wk)
7. Clive Rice (rf capt)
8. Mike Procter (rf)
9. Shaun Pollock (rfm)
10. Dale Steyn or Neil Adcock (short rf)
11. Vince Van Der Bijl (McGrath-type giant)

There is no spinner, but they bat incredibly deep. Number 8 holds the world record for centuries in six consecutive First Class innings!

And they never have had a top spinner!

 

[Teshi98]

Actually, I love your idea of doing it as an actual playing eleven.

1. Barry Richards
2. Jimmy Cook
3. Peter Kirsten
4. Jacques Kallis (rmf)
5. Graeme Pollock
6. AB De Villiers (wk)
7. Clive Rice (rf capt)
8. Mike Procter (rf)
9. Shaun Pollock (rfm)
10. Dale Steyn or Neil Adcock (short rf)
11. Vince Van Der Bijl (McGrath-type giant)

There is no spinner, but they bat incredibly deep. Number 8 holds the world record for centuries in six consecutive First Class innings!

And they never have had a top spinner!

None of the names except richards and pollock deserve to be in team ahead of the post ban sa team. It is nothing but nostalgia which makes you pick the players most of people have not even heard of.
No donald in greatest sa team proves it to be a joke and so does unsurity about whether steyn should make it or not.
Graeme smith may even come in contention for all time 11 as third fourth choice opener and he is not picked for even a sa 11?.
Might well have hansie in team if you can pick clive rice and he is a better captain too.
Mike protector although i guess is a reasonable choice but will be soon repaced by likes of rabada etc.

 

[Rahul1]

Those of you who listen to BBC Test Match Special may have noticed that in the last week interviews with both Graeme Pollock and Mike Procter have been described as being with the "greatest ever South African cricketer."

So here is my version:

1 Mike Procter: terrific balanced all-rounder, much better bowler than Kallis.
2 Barry Richards: greatest batsman of the last 65 years.
3 Graeme Pollock: legendary left-hander.
4 Jacques Kallis: great batting all-rounder.
5 Neil Adcock: greatest Saffa pace bowler.
6 AB De Villiers: ATG batsman
7 Dale Steyn: ATG bowler
8 Shaun Pollock: great bowling all-rounder
9 Hashim Amla: great batsman
10 Allan Donald: exceptional quick bowler.

greatest batsman of the last 65 years

...With a sample size of 4 tests? No way.

Neil Adcock: greatest Saffa pace bowler

Better than Steyn and Donald? With a grand total of 104 wickets?

And no Graeme Smith? )

 

[Last Monetarist]

My all-time SA XI should look something like this :

1. Smith (c)
2. Richards
3. Kallis
4. G. Pollock
5. de Villiers
6. Faulkner
7. Procter
8. Pollock
9. Boucher (wk)
10. Steyn
11. Donald

I realize no person of 'colour' in there is probably going to rile the liberals.

 

[Bilal7]

1) Jacques Kallis.
2) Dale Steyn.
3) Allan Donald.
4) Graeme Smith.
5) Hashim Amla.
6) AB de Villers.
7) Shaun Pollock

These would be my greatest South African cricketers, with the top five being ATGs and the other two being borderline-ATGs.

Graeme Pollock played what, 20 test matches? Too small a sample size for me, even Hussey and Pujara looked incredible for their first few matches. Mike Procter played a grand total of seven test matches.

I would change up the rankings a little bit:

1) Jacques Kallis
2) Dale Steyn
3) G. Smith
4) Hashim Amla
5) Allan Donald
6) AB de Villiers
7) Shaun Pollock

Smith's legacy has increased as South Africa have struggled to replace his leadership and batting. Amla carrying on batting for South Africa when the chips are down pushes him higher up the list, while ABD bowing out when things got tough lowers his standing among the greats.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Hashim Amla’s hyped rating in some of these kids would have to be readdressed.

I don’t even think he’s better than Garry Kirsten or Hershelle Gibbs

 

[bujhee kom]

Soft.

 

[Ab Fan]

Post re-admission:-

Jacques Kallis
Dale Steyn
Allan Donald
Shaun Pollock
Graeme Smith
AB de Villiers
Hashim Amla
Gary Kirsten
Vernon Philander
Herschelle Gibbs/Mark Boucher

 

[Ab Fan]

A nation with the greatest world class talent in all departments - batting ,bowling and fielding.

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