Haider Ali’s management and development as a player

[Titan24]

Is he being managed well? I personally dont think so.

A good young U19 opener comes into domestic cricket, scores a couple of 100s in his debut season averaging in high 40s. Gets opportunity in PSL at no 3 and his position was changed a bit during first season.

He gets called straight to Pakistan cricket team where he is played at no 3 and he scores a 50 on debut.

He averaged 31.33 with SR of 138 at no 3 where he has played 7 innings which is pretty good for a young batsman.

He is then moved to open the batting in NZ where he struggled a bit followed by one match vs SA in Pak after which he is dropped. Meanwhile he was also handed an ODI debut where he was given no 4 to bat in an ODI, another position where he isnt used to especially in the format in which he hasnt much played even at domestic level.

Then comes PSL where his franchise uses him at no 5 or so as per the requirements of their team and he responds well. Following the footsteps Pak management also puts him at no 5,6 in T20s vs SA and Zim.

He has by now batted at every number from opening the batting to no 6. Three as opener and no 5, seven as no 4 and one as no 6.

This is too much of chopping and changing for my liking especially for a player who was fast tracked into national setup and doesnt even have much domestic experience as well. In my opinion things should be made easier for him to adapt at international level by giving him one position and carrying on. Changing him from no 3 didnt make sense and his numbers at that position also manifest that.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

I agree. This is exactly the sort of stuff they did with Umar Akmal. Yes Umar Akmal did self destruct but the team management didn't help his case either. Kept rotating his role and position.

Haider unfortunately didn't perform and has a series of bad runs. I'm with you on keeping his position fixed. In my opinion he should bat at 4. Give him a bit of responsibility in the innings. However I think he needs to head back to domestics for a season and perform there again at that number 4 position I mentioned and prove he actually belongs in international cricket

 

[King-Misbah]

You have to perform besides the situation, this is how the real world works. Stop wrapping Haider in cotton wool as he just hacked in the recent past and played some mediocre shots.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

You have to perform besides the situation, this is how the real world works. Stop wrapping Haider in cotton wool as he just hacked in the recent past and played some mediocre shots.

Everything you needed to know about Haider was in that first T20 innings he played vs England. No he's not a hack. He played proper shots in that knock and had good agression. His temperament in that match seemed a bit off though but I shrugged it off as him being raw and new. But we all could see that he had potential and still has it. He needs to head back to domestics but with the attitude of what the team wants from him and what he wants from himself.
This is Umar Akmal 2.0 and I cannot afford to see another Umar Akmal go to waste.

 

[Titan24]

You have to perform besides the situation, this is how the real world works. Stop wrapping Haider in cotton wool as he just hacked in the recent past and played some mediocre shots.

When you fast track someone after 7-8 FC matches, handful of PSL matches just because team lacks dynamic batsmen than you need to handle that youngster with care rather than playing him at every number from opening to no 6 in a very small career.

Its tough for even the most experienced to adapt to changing positions but, surely it’s unrealistic to expect from an opener of U19 team to keep on batting and performing at every number.

Compare that to Babar, Rizwan and Hafeez who all have been playing at same numbers for 3, 4 series now with only slight change being Babar moving at 3 in 2-3 matches.

 

[Yasir_ch]

Guess who ruined Umar akmal and that same guy is ruining Haider also.If Pakistan cricket has to develop that misbah guy has to be kicked out soon.

 

[ElRaja]

to accomodate babar at three they moved fakhar down to four, says everything really, trying to plug round holes with square pegs.

the changes today just seemed like panic.

 

[Abdurmirr]

I think it's a combination of two factors: poor management and low cricketing IQ on Haider's part.

If you watch Haider Ali bat in full flow, its obvious that he has some talent and has the potential to be a mid-high tier cricketer.

Under Misbah however I don't think Haider, yet alone any other young batsmen will see any development of their game as he is an unqualified individual who shouldn't even be close to Pakistan cricket. Under Misbah, Haider will definitely fall down the pipeline of obscurity and become just another lost name in Pakistan cricket.

However even though Misbah can be blamed for Haider's stagnation, it is also important to note that Haider seems to have a very poor cricketing IQ. Whenever he comes to bat it seems like he only has 1 gear and that is hit the ball out of the park. He has shown many times in domestic that he can time the ball well and play classical cricketing shots, however even with this ability he prefers to take a leaf out of the Afridi book and slog everything for six.

A change in management may help improve Haider's awareness in this regard, however he must also think more critically while playing and realise that he has the ability to take his time early on and than accelerate when he is well set.

It's pretty basic stuff however it's an issue with a lot of our players

 

[Line and Length]

I’m convinced if he was under a more competent management team he would’ve flourished. He has all the necessary skills, talent, shots and ability at his disposal. Misbah and Younus should be ashamed what they have done to this talent. Rewatch his debut 50 vs England, he looks like a generational talent. Even some of his knock at the youth level. He looks light years ahead of any of his teammates or opponents. Then as Misbah and Younus wrapped his claws around him, his confidence and ability plummeted, and he looked like a confused caricature of the player he had shown to be at the domestic and U19 level. I’m convinced if Mickey was still in charge Haider would have prospered. Misbah and Younus should be ashamed of themselves; ruining one of the best batting talents we have produced in years.

 

[Muhammad Kaleem]

T20 cricket has ruined him, perhaps beyond repair. He should have played sufficient first class and international tests before debut in t20. He was progressing in healthy way in under-19 world cup and Qaid-i-Azam trophy but then he got diseased in the ****-format (i.e t20) of cricket.

 

[Energy]

Excessive reliance on the management can only mean two things:

-Haider is world class and just needs a good coach.
-Haider is a chicken and needs to be pampered.

Both scenarios are equally embarrassing for a sports person, especially for the fact that Haider hasn't done anything of note to even be considered for warming the bench. However, he's had opportunities and you have to take the responsibility on yourself and value your wicket. Not exhibit to the world how ****** and absent minded you are.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Same thing they did to Maqsood.

 

[Major]

yes umar akmal, haider, sohiab maqsood and all otehrs were destroyed by misbah

warna these guys would had been world class players

 

[90MPH]

He’s being messed around for sure, but he’s definitely not ready for International cricket.

He needs some fine turning, making too many soft mistakes.

But he’s young and talented so he can make a comeback. I have faith in him but he needs time to develop.

 

[Artaxerxes]

He should play domestic cricket for a couple of seasons either as an opener or play at number 3.Chopping and changing his position has not helped.

 

[Noman]

He’s being messed around for sure, but he’s definitely not ready for International cricket.

He needs some fine turning, making too many soft mistakes.

But he’s young and talented so he can make a comeback. I have faith in him but he needs time to develop.

His basic is wrong. He is a slogger but a bad one sadly

 

[Farabi]

Is he being managed well? I personally dont think so.

A good young U19 opener comes into domestic cricket, scores a couple of 100s in his debut season averaging in high 40s. Gets opportunity in PSL at no 3 and his position was changed a bit during first season.

He gets called straight to Pakistan cricket team where he is played at no 3 and he scores a 50 on debut.

He averaged 31.33 with SR of 138 at no 3 where he has played 7 innings which is pretty good for a young batsman.

He is then moved to open the batting in NZ where he struggled a bit followed by one match vs SA in Pak after which he is dropped. Meanwhile he was also handed an ODI debut where he was given no 4 to bat in an ODI, another position where he isnt used to especially in the format in which he hasnt much played even at domestic level.

Then comes PSL where his franchise uses him at no 5 or so as per the requirements of their team and he responds well. Following the footsteps Pak management also puts him at no 5,6 in T20s vs SA and Zim.

He has by now batted at every number from opening the batting to no 6. Three as opener and no 5, seven as no 4 and one as no 6.

This is too much of chopping and changing for my liking especially for a player who was fast tracked into national setup and doesnt even have much domestic experience as well. In my opinion things should be made easier for him to adapt at international level by giving him one position and carrying on. Changing him from no 3 didnt make sense and his numbers at that position also manifest that.

Loads of talent and He debut too early.
Agreed that chopping and changing didn’t help. Should play 3 more seasons of FC before getting another chance

 

[iiqbal]

At professional level if you want to succeed you have to work hard. There is only 5 % contribute from management. Rest 95% is in player hand. Today rizwan have achieved all this success due to his hard work.

Umar Akmal never work hard and that is only reason he is out of team.

Haider Ali have all skillset , now he needs to work hard to get success at national level.

 

[cricketerB94]

Loosing a teeth at this age can take its toll to anybody.

On a serious note, this is where Mickey Arthur was so good. He identified Babar as a telent, gave him a proper role, gave him a fixed number and gave him consistent chances until he came good.

The same Babar Azam was dropped under Misbah after couple of failures in Islamabad United and the same Babar Azam was struggling in ODI and TEST team under Waqar, who was not sure about Babar's batting number.

Haider too needs to work on his temperament. Maybe a couple of FC seasons will help him.

 

[daytrader]

yes umar akmal, haider, sohiab maqsood and all otehrs were destroyed by misbah

warna these guys would had been world class players

LOL some of these folks will say anything to blame Misbah. Inn ka bas chale yeh toh Corona bhi Misbah pe daal dein

 

[daytrader]

Loosing a teeth at this age can take its toll to anybody.

On a serious note, this is where Mickey Arthur was so good. He identified Babar as a telent, gave him a proper role, gave him a fixed number and gave him consistent chances until he came good.

The same Babar Azam was dropped under Misbah after couple of failures in Islamabad United and the same Babar Azam was struggling in ODI and TEST team under Waqar, who was not sure about Babar's batting number.

Haider too needs to work on his temperament. Maybe a couple of FC seasons will help him.

Babar was a prodigy since under 15 and a household name even before Mickey. He's an outcome of the Pakistani Cricket system when it works. Mickey didn't identify his talent

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

I’m convinced if he was under a more competent management team he would’ve flourished. He has all the necessary skills, talent, shots and ability at his disposal. Misbah and Younus should be ashamed what they have done to this talent. Rewatch his debut 50 vs England, he looks like a generational talent. Even some of his knock at the youth level. He looks light years ahead of any of his teammates or opponents. Then as Misbah and Younus wrapped his claws around him, his confidence and ability plummeted, and he looked like a confused caricature of the player he had shown to be at the domestic and U19 level. I’m convinced if Mickey was still in charge Haider would have prospered. Misbah and Younus should be ashamed of themselves; ruining one of the best batting talents we have produced in years.

Haider Ali, Omair Yousaf, Abdullah Shafiq, Saud Shakeel and Saad Ali aren't meant for slogging and after some failures in tamasha t20 thrown out in darkness these all youngsters have skilll, talent, ability and array of shots PCB management need to step up and try to adjust them carefully in longer formats other than that there isn't much talent in Pakistan

 

[Farabi]

Babar was a prodigy since under 15 and a household name even before Mickey. He's an outcome of the Pakistani Cricket system when it works. Mickey didn't identify his talent

Yes, but Mickey did let him fulfill his potential by playing him on his intended slot.
Babar had an average of 35 in first 15 ODIs, yet his number was never changed and he was allowed 15 tests to come good in tests.
Compare that with Haider who has played every position from 1-6 even though he was an opener and actually did well as opener even in the international T20s he’s played to date.

 

[90MPH]

Babar was a prodigy since under 15 and a household name even before Mickey. He's an outcome of the Pakistani Cricket system when it works. Mickey didn't identify his talent

While that is true it was Micky that encouraged Babar to bat at 3 and that he had the attributes to become a proper batsman. He didn’t need to slog out which he was doing too often before ala the Umar Akmal route.

 

[cricketerB94]

Babar was a prodigy since under 15 and a household name even before Mickey. He's an outcome of the Pakistani Cricket system when it works. Mickey didn't identify his talent

And still he was struggling under Misbah and Waqar.

Misbah and Waqar had the following players who were labelled as talented but their game did not evolve:

Umar Akmal
Ahmed Shehzad
Umar Amin
Sohaib Maqsood
Haris Sohail (Under Misbah and Waqar in 2015)
Babar Azam (pre 2016)

I am not mentioning the likes of Haider and Abdullah yet but it says a lot about our local talent growth system. Something is certainly not right in that system.

 

[Barragan]

He needs a full two seasons of FC to mature.

Don't select him for the national team during that period, only T20's if needs be.

 

[King-Misbah]

Same thing they did to Maqsood.

No, all his shots were aerial.

Let's not put the players under performance on the management. A lot of players were performing too under the same management.

 

[shaz619]

Misbah has destroyed his career, Misbah is a cancer that can’t be extinguished; he knows how to work a broken system. If Misbah was in England, I would be paying him £1 for Chicken and Chips, I’d especially make sure he adds the chilly and mayo

 

[shaz619]

I just hope Babar Azam is not ruined by Misbah

 

[Ahson8]

His management has been poor, and that's the difference between Mickey & Misbah.

 

[Ahson8]

I just hope Babar Azam is not ruined by Misbah

Mickey already played his part in developing him and backed him at his low points, so we good thankfully

 

[Line and Length]

Yes, but Mickey did let him fulfill his potential by playing him on his intended slot.
Babar had an average of 35 in first 15 ODIs, yet his number was never changed and he was allowed 15 tests to come good in tests.
Compare that with Haider who has played every position from 1-6 even though he was an opener and actually did well as opener even in the international T20s he’s played to date.

Exactly right. Instead of working on his game as a top order player, they tried to pigeonhole him into the middle order thinking that would magically solve everything. This is what happens when you let people like Misbah and Younus, with absolutely no previous experience or necessary coaching qualifications, run the show.

 

[Titan24]

Just to be clear I am not at all saying that management is the only obstacle between Haider and the road towards world domination. However, surely playing at a new number in almost every other series cant be good for any batsman to develop especially as mentioned when a player havent even player even a single complete domestic season and has been fast tracked.

Allowing him to play atleast 2 more seasons of domestic cricket before giving him a national call would have been ideal however once he was called he should have been given one position and that is where he should have been asked to bat.

Batting position makes a huge difference as every position requires a certain mindset and role. If you are not well equipped to bat at a certain position and also dont have enough cricketing experience overall you are going to look like a rabbit in front of headlights more often than not at an unfamiliar position.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Just a faulty technique and shot selection , nothing else ,, add his brain **** and you see the result which is expected to be seen ,

 

[ads101]

He’s just too young. Brought in without establishing himself in domestic properly. That’s why he hasn’t learnt to build an innings or better shot selection. We keep doing this bringing in these batsmen too young, giving them a chance then dropping forever. Sami Aslam for example ironically is now perfect age and good domestic experience but too late to pick him now. And he thought his career was over for a few bad innings when he was 20. Abdullah brought in and now ended up dropped from psi, and most likely dropped from international squads soon.

You have to be an absolute prodigious talent to do well as a batsman at 20 and maintain it. Babar is an example of this and Haider Ali isn’t that level. Babar was u19 level at 14 pretty much. And even then he didn’t debut that early.

Feel we’re never going to learn we’ll keep debuting these youngsters with little domestic experience and then discarding them forever after a few failings. International cricket isn’t the place to learn. Cricket doesn’t work that way anymore, cricketers are debuting later and later.

Now we’re in a dilemma. Drop him now, potentially destroy his confidence and never pick him again. Keep playing him instead of going back to domestic, and instead of learning he’ll just keep experience failure after failure and lose confidence. We could have easily picked him instead maybe 2 years later with a decent amount of domestic experience under his belt.

 

[b.lesner]

Tell me 1 young player that Misbah developed as a Captain also?

 

[Maliq_Mudasir]

Irrespective of Haider performance, this management needs to be sacked immediately. Misbah has single handedly destroyed pakistan in limited over format since 2011.

 

[Farabi]

He’s just too young. Brought in without establishing himself in domestic properly. That’s why he hasn’t learnt to build an innings or better shot selection. We keep doing this bringing in these batsmen too young, giving them a chance then dropping forever. Sami Aslam for example ironically is now perfect age and good domestic experience but too late to pick him now. And he thought his career was over for a few bad innings when he was 20. Abdullah brought in and now ended up dropped from psi, and most likely dropped from international squads soon.

You have to be an absolute prodigious talent to do well as a batsman at 20 and maintain it. Babar is an example of this and Haider Ali isn’t that level. Babar was u19 level at 14 pretty much. And even then he didn’t debut that early.

Feel we’re never going to learn we’ll keep debuting these youngsters with little domestic experience and then discarding them forever after a few failings. International cricket isn’t the place to learn. Cricket doesn’t work that way anymore, cricketers are debuting later and later.

Now we’re in a dilemma. Drop him now, potentially destroy his confidence and never pick him again. Keep playing him instead of going back to domestic, and instead of learning he’ll just keep experience failure after failure and lose confidence. We could have easily picked him instead maybe 2 years later with a decent amount of domestic experience under his belt.

“International players are debuting later and later.” Well said man.
Most batsmen in competitive countries are debuting 27+ after a ton of mileage in FC and list A. Only Pakistan is dishing out debuts right out of U19.
In Pakistan, some people are inspired by legends and myths. The stories do circles like Imran Khan picked Inzamam after watching him play in the nets playing the Ws. What doesn’t get mentioned is that Inzi had also topped the prior domestic season.
It’s a comedy circus in selection these days. Now all the selectors think they’re also Imran and have that “eye for talent”. Truth is that no body has any clue. The only reliable method to madness is the demonstrated performance in the domestic system, no matter how low the standard there. Best example is Fawad Alam, who was the victim of the “Eye for talent” despite outrageously amazing FC performance.

Btw, even though Babar was a prodigious talent, he actually debuted when he was 22-23 after playing in domestic cricket for 3-4 years even though he was the 3rd highest run getter in BOTH 2010 and 2012 U19 WCs.
For whatever reason, he wasn’t called-up to Pakistan until 2016, which actually helped him because he got a chance to develop. Had he debuted in 2012, who knows we would have discarded him as TTF, never to return again like so many before him, latest likely victim being Haider Ali....

 

[ask_analyse_act]

No, all his shots were aerial.

Let's not put the players under performance on the management. A lot of players were performing too under the same management.

All his shots become aerial when he was moved around the batting order. He did well at no.3 and 4.

But he was made to bat at positions 1-7 by the great Misbah/ Waqar

 

[ahmedzee]

He needs to play domestic cricket big time to enhance his skills. He lacks temperament too.

 

[GreenKhan]

It’s funny how all these players like Shahzad, Akmal, maqsood are being blamed by misbah .

Misbah left the One day setup in 2015. Since then Akmal, Shahzad have just not delivered its simple as that .

Mickey Arthur selected Akmal for CT17 and he messed the chance up him self . The same Micky Arthur then gave Umar Akmal the chance to stake a claim for the World Cup 2019, by giving him 5 matches in UAE against Australia. The same series where the likes of Rizwan , and Haris got 100’s Akmal failed to cross 50 and had his standard brain fades .

Misbah calls Akmal back and he gets 2 golden ducks in a row.

Yes it’s Misbah and every other coach Akmal has played under for his lack of development. They are the ones who got him banned as well .

Oh and yeh it’s Misbahs fault to that Nasir Jamshed sold him self and Sharjeel for that matter and also thrown Khalid latif in the mix as well.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

“International players are debuting later and later.” Well said man.
Most batsmen in competitive countries are debuting 27+ after a ton of mileage in FC and list A. Only Pakistan is dishing out debuts right out of U19.
In Pakistan, some people are inspired by legends and myths. The stories do circles like Imran Khan picked Inzamam after watching him play in the nets playing the Ws. What doesn’t get mentioned is that Inzi had also topped the prior domestic season.
It’s a comedy circus in selection these days. Now all the selectors think they’re also Imran and have that “eye for talent”. Truth is that no body has any clue. The only reliable method to madness is the demonstrated performance in the domestic system, no matter how low the standard there. Best example is Fawad Alam, who was the victim of the “Eye for talent” despite outrageously amazing FC performance.

Btw, even though Babar was a prodigious talent, he actually debuted when he was 22-23 after playing in domestic cricket for 3-4 years even though he was the 3rd highest run getter in BOTH 2010 and 2012 U19 WCs.
For whatever reason, he wasn’t called-up to Pakistan until 2016, which actually helped him because he got a chance to develop. Had he debuted in 2012, who knows we would have discarded him as TTF, never to return again like so many before him, latest likely victim being Haider Ali....

Imran started a disastrous tradition which encouraged likes and dislikes how you play crap ramiz raja over shoaib mohammed our crickets merit was destroyed after that it will still effect our next generation

 

[OldWarHorse]

Is being turned into a T20 specialist. If he is regarded as the best upcoming Pakistani batsman he needs to be exposed to the longer formats whether at domestic or international level. Playing only T20s is affecting his game, he loses his shape trying to go too hard too early.

 

[Zaz]

Is being turned into a T20 specialist. If he is regarded as the best upcoming Pakistani batsman he needs to be exposed to the longer formats whether at domestic or international level. Playing only T20s is affecting his game, he loses his shape trying to go too hard too early.

What i dont understand is why we debut kids in t20s?

Theres a plethora of t20 cricket at domestic and intnl level where we throw kids in The focus should should be in getting them to play more of the longer version where they can hone their technique and learn their game

Instead we get them to become sloggers at an early age

Pakistan needs to have a proper plan when it comes to kids like abdullah n haider Make them play more 4 day cricket Keep them away from t20s fgs

 

[Titan24]

What i dont understand is why we debut kids in t20s?

Theres a plethora of t20 cricket at domestic and intnl level where we throw kids in The focus should should be in getting them to play more of the longer version where they can hone their technique and learn their game

Instead we get them to become sloggers at an early age

Pakistan needs to have a proper plan when it comes to kids like abdullah n haider Make them play more 4 day cricket Keep them away from t20s fgs

Exactly. Domestic longer format cricket is where the basics of any batsman and bowlers are developed, yes some can have skills for all 3 formats but that doesnt mean you can just skip the basics.

What we have seen with some fast tracked players by Pak at international level is that they are lacking the basics of the game and have been put in a spot where they have to learn them at international level and that too only in the form of T20s more often than not. Irrespective of how talented a player is, he needs to develop the basics of the game first and than take his game forward from there.

 

[ChTab]

IMO this guy has loads of potential but the management is treating him in a very bad way, he has only played 17 international games & in those 17 games he has played a number of positions. This is the primary reason for his failure so far in his international career so far.

 

[UzmanBeast]

IMO this guy has loads of potential but the management is treating him in a very bad way, he has only played 17 international games & in those 17 games he has played a number of positions. This is the primary reason for his failure so far in his international career so far.

They are sending him down the path of Umar Akmal. Just because he can slog doesn't mean he should play that role.

Mohammad Wasim was clearly just lying in his press conferences about giving players the positions they play in domestic.

Haider should either open or be one down. The problem is, I don't see a place for him to open or play at 3 in T20Is.

In ODIs, I think he should be given a shot as an opener.

 

[Markhor]

One of Misbah's biggest sins was selecting Haider Ali and Abdullah Shafique for these utterly useless T20Is in the past few months, denying them a chance to play the entirety of the previous Quaid-e-Azam Trophy.

Since Misbah had the tag of favouring seniors as captain, I think he's tried to overcompensate since being appointed coach.

The least Misbah could've done though after picking him was fix a position. Already Haider has been chopped and changed around.

 

[zarak]

I've seen Haider chip a loopy leg side half volley by pheklewayo to square leg three times. He lacks cricketing IQ. Keep in mind Babar made is odi debut at number 6 and earned the spot by showing guts and brains. Haider has come into t20 matches with over 10 overs remaining and bottled. He needs to find his range