#HangAyazNizami trending in Pakistan

[Palti_hit]

Can anyone from Pakistan give an unbiased report of this? Ayaz Nizami, an atheist arrested under blasphemy laws in Pakistan and people on Twitter are asking for his hanging. What's going on?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Apparently, he was an atheist blogger who got arrested under blasphemy law.

 

[czar]

Disappointed if true, this is restriction on free speech in Pakistan.

 

[DW44]

Just Pakistanis being Pakistanis. The bloodlust is real. If you're an atheist living in Pakistan, your life is basically one big act because this is about par for the course if you're outed. I believe there was a survey a few years ago where ~80% of those polled supported death for apostasy as well as blasphemy, a fairly accurate reflection of public opinion here. That said, irony dies a thousand deaths when our neighbors roll their eyes at the lack of free expression here.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Just Pakistanis being Pakistanis. The bloodlust is real. If you're an atheist living in Pakistan, your life is basically one big act because this is about par for the course if you're outed. I believe there was a survey a few years ago where ~80% of those polled supported death for apostasy as well as blasphemy, a fairly accurate reflection of public opinion here. That said, irony dies a thousand deaths when our neighbors roll their eyes at the lack of free expression here.

I don't know about us being any better but atheists live pretty freely in most parts of India. It's all relative i suppose. Freedom of speech is certainly less in india compared to the West but compared to the Islamic world, i don't think so. We are slowly moving in that direction though.

 

[DW44]

I don't know about us being any better but atheists live pretty freely in most parts of India. It's all relative i suppose. Freedom of speech is certainly less in india compared to the West but compared to the Islamic world, i don't think so. We are slowly moving in that direction though.

Islamic world, as the lowest of lows, obviously isn't a benchmark here and Pakistan, being a part of it, certainly isn't one. I hold both countries to the same standard when comparing them and India might be marginally superior on this score compared to Pakistan(albeit going in the wrong direction), it's not that great by any objective measure. Keep in mind that the threat to free speech is not coming just from the state but the public at large too and on that front, both Muslims and Hindus in India have murdered at least one atheist from their respective backgrounds that I can recall. Not to be outdone, the Pakistani public has its own proud tradition of lynchings etc. but so far it has mostly been directed at Christians and Ahmadis. I am a Pakistani atheist living in Pakistan so you can imagine the disdain I have for my compatriots and their 7th century mindset and culture, especially in light of recent events, so don't confuse me for someone who is interested in an India vs Pakistan appendage measuring contest, I look down equally on both because while one may be better than the other on one front or the other, both are so far behind the times that going into the relative levels of backwardness between the two is splitting hairs.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Islamic world, as the lowest of lows, obviously isn't a benchmark here and Pakistan, being a part of it, certainly isn't one. I hold both countries to the same standard when comparing them and India might be marginally superior on this score compared to Pakistan(albeit going in the wrong direction), it's not that great by any objective measure. Keep in mind that the threat to free speech is not coming just from the state but the public at large too and on that front, both Muslims and Hindus in India have murdered at least one atheist from their respective backgrounds that I can recall. Not to be outdone, the Pakistani public has its own proud tradition of lynchings etc. but so far it has mostly been directed at Christians and Ahmadis. I am a Pakistani atheist living in Pakistan so you can imagine the disdain I have for my compatriots and their 7th century mindset and culture, especially in light of recent events, so don't confuse me for someone who is interested in an India vs Pakistan appendage measuring contest, I look down equally on both because while one may be better than the other on one front or the other, both are so far behind the times that going into the relative levels of backwardness between the two is splitting hairs.

Good points. There was a time when i was almost an atheist but thankfully, i live in south India where i'm sure no one will hack me to death. Up north, there's been a huge surge of intolerance for anyone who's not a Hindutvadi and if you happen to criticise religion or anything wrong in society, you'll be trolled all day long by right wing idiots.

 

[DW44]

Good points. There was a time when i was almost an atheist but thankfully, i live in south India where i'm sure no one will hack me to death. Up north, there's been a huge surge of intolerance for anyone who's not a Hindutvadi and if you happen to criticise religion or anything wrong in society, you'll be trolled all day long by right wing idiots.

Fair enough I guess but no place is free from this filth, it's a matter of how far it has penetrated society at large. At least one of the two Indian murders that I referred to in my previous post(the ex Muslim) happened in the South(Kerala) and I don't remember where the other happened but I think it was Karnataka or Gujarat. Pakistan, especially Punjab, is on a different level obviously from South India but the radicalization in the north is obvious, especially to someone who has studied the radicalization of the general public in Pakistan post Zia and knows the trends to look for in a culturally similar society.

 

[LastManstanding]

Good points. There was a time when i was almost an atheist but thankfully, i live in south India where i'm sure no one will hack me to death. Up north, there's been a huge surge of intolerance for anyone who's not a Hindutvadi and if you happen to criticise religion or anything wrong in society, you'll be trolled all day long by right wing idiots.

Atheists are pretty safe in north as compared to Muslims and dalits who are being targeted by these right wing thugs who call themselves as gau rakshaks.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Atheists are pretty safe in north as compared to Muslims and dalits who are being targeted by these right wing thugs who call themselves as gau rakshaks.

If they don't criticise the Hindutvadi's it's all good. But do you really think an ex-Hindu atheist who openly criticises Hinduism will be safe there. Yes the Indian state does not discriminate against atheists through it's institutions but if you wanna be openly atheist, West Bengal and South india are probably your only safe bets.

 

[Pakpak]

I don't know about us being any better but atheists live pretty freely in most parts of India. It's all relative i suppose. Freedom of speech is certainly less in india compared to the West but compared to the Islamic world, i don't think so. We are slowly moving in that direction though.

Because Hinduism has no concept of apostasy. Islam does, unfortunately.

 

[DW44]

If they don't criticise the Hindutvadi's it's all good. But do you really think an ex-Hindu atheist who openly criticises Hinduism will be safe there. Yes the Indian state does not discriminate against atheists through it's institutions but if you wanna be openly atheist, West Bengal and South india are probably your only safe bets.

Just out of curiosity, when you say South India do you include Karnataka too? I've always had the impression that it was one of the more right wing states with extremists having a louder voice and more representation than other states in the region or even India as a whole. If you were around in 2012-13, you'd recall I sarcastically used to call it my 'favorite' Indian state on account of the almost weekly news of some incident of intolerance or the other.

 

[czar]

If they don't criticise the Hindutvadi's it's all good. But do you really think an ex-Hindu atheist who openly criticises Hinduism will be safe there. Yes the Indian state does not discriminate against atheists through it's institutions but if you wanna be openly atheist, West Bengal and South india are probably your only safe bets.

Can we openly criticise Islam in South India/ Kerala and get away with it?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Because Hinduism has no concept of apostasy. Islam does, unfortunately.

Hush! Don't give Hindutvadis ideas. Secularism is hanging by a very fine thread here!!

 

[czar]

Just out of curiosity, when you say South India do you include Karnataka too? I've always had the impression that it was one of the more right wing states with extremists having a louder voice and more representation than other states in the region or even India as a whole. If you were around in 2012-13, you'd recall I sarcastically used to call it my 'favorite' Indian state on account of the almost weekly news of some incident of intolerance or the other.

Breakup of communal incidents in India stateswise.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Ind...ence-UP-leads-states/articleshow/51127336.cms

3rd Para.

 

[DW44]

Breakup of communal incidents in India stateswise.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Ind...ence-UP-leads-states/articleshow/51127336.cms

3rd Para.

So my suspicions weren't unfounded. On a different note, UP sounds like a supersized version of South Punjab here.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Just out of curiosity, when you say South India do you include Karnataka too? I've always had the impression that it was one of the more right wing states with extremists having a louder voice and more representation than other states in the region or even India as a whole. If you were around in 2012-13, you'd recall I sarcastically used to call it my 'favorite' Indian state on account of the almost weekly news of some incident of intolerance or the other.

You have to look at the caste dynamic in India always. Karnataka has a relatively high percentage of upper castes unlike Andhra and tamil nadu where upper castes are a tiny minority and the upper castes were, traditionally the major votebank of the BJP. Within Karnataka, there is also regional variation. Bangalore where i live is one of the most liberal places in India compared to the coastal areas of mangalore where most of these incidences of intolerance took place. I was pursuing my engineering near Mangalore back then and there was moral policing by right wing groups where even Hindu couples were beaten for going to pubs etc. That didn't go down well with most people and the Congress won the next state election with a thumping majority. Except for those few years in a particular region, you don't hear too many such instances in karnataka either. In fact, i think most violence takes place in the neighbouring Communist ruled Kerala.

 

[czar]

So my suspicions weren't unfounded. On a different note, UP sounds like a supersized version of South Punjab here.

Because UP has the highest Number and most backward Muslim's in the India, plus the population of the state is very high.

But let me be frank, most of these incidents are low level ones. Like fighting over crackers bursted near a mosque or Loudspeakers volume being too high or Inter-religion marriage. There is no huge network of Madrassas producing extremists or Saudi funded Malik Ishaq type groups or TTP here as is the case in South Punjab which even you can confirm.

 

[Slog]

Im not too well versed in the case which is sth to be ashamed of tbh

 

[DW44]

Because UP has the highest Number and most backward Muslim's in the India, plus the population of the state is very high.

But let me be frank, most of these incidents are low level ones. Like fighting over crackers busted near a mosque or Loudspeakers volume being too high or Inter-religion marriage. There is no huge network of Madrassas producing extremists or Saudi funded Malik Ishaq type groups or TTP here as is the case in South Punjab which even you confirm.

The Malik Ishaq types have moved to central Punjab(Gujranwala-Lahore-Faisalabad belt) and that region, not South Punjab, is their main hub now. South Punjab just has a very backward and extremist public by Pakistani standards, mostly on account of the aforementioned madrasas.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Breakup of communal incidents in India stateswise.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Ind...ence-UP-leads-states/articleshow/51127336.cms

3rd Para.

Hmm i guess it's much worse than what is being portrayed then. Still, even if there are more incidents of communal violence, i don't think it's nearly as bad as when BJP were in power 2008-2013. Church attacks, beating up of muslim youth, moral policing etc.

 

[KingKhanWC]

What did he say?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Can we openly criticise Islam in South India/ Kerala and get away with it?

Not anymore. You could have in Kerala before the 80's.

 

[Saeed]

Nothing surprising, always something stupid trending out of Pakistan. Instead of giving eloquent response to some random guy on internet they choose to shut them down. I mean what impact could a random blogger have on your life? Why are you so insecure? There are so many genuine problems in Pakistan yet they choose to waste their time like this.
Do people in Pakistan ever do something positive on twitter except spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories, hate against Indians, minorities or some other random country around the world?

 

[QazzarFan]

Why do Muslims feel so insecure that this guy has to die for his choice? Is Islam so weak that anyone with opposing ideas must die for Islam to flourish?

 

[bleaf27]

Nothing surprising, always something stupid trending out of Pakistan. Instead of giving eloquent response to some random guy on internet they choose to shut them down. I mean what impact could a random blogger have on your life? Why are you so insecure? There are so many genuine problems in Pakistan yet they choose to waste their time like this.
Do people in Pakistan ever do something positive on twitter except spreading ridiculous conspiracy theories, hate against Indians, minorities or some other random country around the world?

Fair point