Hansie Cronje's Prime South Africa vs Grame Smith's Prime South Africa

[Savak]

Cronje turned around South Africa's fortunes and made them almost Australia Like from 1994 to 2000 when he took over as captain. Yes they chocked in big tournaments but that South African team was very formidable

Grame Smith it can be argued helped to restore South Africa's pride after the Cronje affair in 2000 and he too achieved very good results from 2003 to 2014 when he was in charge of the team.

This was Cronje's side

Gary Kirsten
Andrew Hudson
Jacques Kallis
Herschuelle Gibbs
Daryl Cullinan
Brian Mcmillan
Hansie Cronje
Dave Richardson
Mark Boucher
Shaun Pollock
Lance Klusenar
Pat Symcox
Allan Donald
Craig Mathews
Bret Schultz

Grame Smith's side

Graeme Smith
Herschuelle Gibbs
Jacques Kallis
AB De Villiers
Botta Dipennar
Hashim Amla
Faf Du Plessi
Mark Boucher
Robin Petersen
Shaun Pollock
Makhaya Ntini
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
Vernon Phillander
Paul Harris

I think Graeme Smith's side has more talent and ability but Cronje's side had bigger fear factor especially given that Allan Donald was at his frightening peak at that stage

 

[Buffet]

Cronje turned around South Africa's fortunes and made them almost Australia Like from 1994 to 2000 when he took over as captain. Yes they chocked in big tournaments but that South African team was very formidable

Grame Smith it can be argued helped to restore South Africa's pride after the Cronje affair in 2000 and he too achieved very good results from 2003 to 2014 when he was in charge of the team.

This was Cronje's side

Gary Kirsten
Andrew Hudson
Jacques Kallis
Herschuelle Gibbs
Daryl Cullinan
Brian Mcmillan
Hansie Cronje
Dave Richardson
Mark Boucher
Shaun Pollock
Lance Klusenar
Pat Symcox
Allan Donald
Craig Mathews
Bret Schultz

Grame Smith's side

Graeme Smith
Herschuelle Gibbs
Jacques Kallis
AB De Villiers
Botta Dipennar
Hashim Amla
Faf Du Plessi
Mark Boucher
Robin Petersen
Shaun Pollock
Makhaya Ntini
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
Vernon Phillander
Paul Harris

I think Graeme Smith's side has more talent and ability but Cronje's side had bigger fear factor especially given that Allan Donald was at his frightening peak at that stage

Smith's side will take it due to batting.

 

[Ab Fan]

Smith's side due to batting.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Cronje's side was brittle away from home, otherwise they won't have lost in India, Australia, and England. They however did rectify their subcontinent form somewhat by winning in Pakistan and India in 97 and 2000. Nonetheless, there were about 2-3 all-time great batsmen in Smith's side while Cronje's batting order was workmanlike in comparison.

In terms of bowling, Donald and Pollock at their peak was perhaps a shade more hostile than Smith's bowling attacks, but there was more varied brilliance in the latter team i.e. Steyn, Morkel, Philander were three significantly different types of fast bowlers. Whereas, the quality of the support for Donald and Pollock was certainly a notch or two below.

 

[Markhor]

Smith's team takes it in both departments. They were unbeaten away for several years and have multiple players who are ATG candidates.

But Allan Donald would be my favourite South African cricketer of all time.

 

[Hasan123]

This would be an epic game. I would go with Smiths South Africa.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Smith's SA. By far.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Neither.

Shaun Pollock's team from 2000-2003 was the best South African team ever.

 

[Abid Z]

I think many on here actually never saw Cronje team. I think they are head and shoulders above smith’s. I would argue that in the late 90’s only one team could realistically challenge Australia and that was South Africa but Smith SA were just really behind Pontings/Clarke’s Australia. Yea I know there was steyn and morkel Amla and abd but still cronje’s team right up until he got found out was a truly awesome team.

Some of the wins, particularly against England have since been proven to have been fixed. Some defeats against the mighty Australians were very close. They were head and shoulders above Pakistan. India may have been a final frontier but it was also for the Australian team until Clarke’s Australia.

 

[Junaids]

The answer is “neither - the best South African team was Ali Bacher’s!”

You can’t beat a team containing Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock and Mike Procter!

Even the spinner - John Traicos - outclasses what Cronje or Smith could field.

The Bacher team would beat the Cronje and Smith teams COMBINED. As in, pick ten specialist batsmen from the Cronje and Smith teams and allow their best six bowlers to bowl.

And the Bacher team would still win. By an innings.

 

[Savak]

It's a close one. Steyn has a better record than Donald but Donald made batsmen **** themselves, he was that scary to deal with. He and Pollock in their prime was one truly formidable attack. Lance Klusenar was also in his prime back then and he won many games on his own with bat and ball. Pat Symcox has a test century against Pakistan

 

[subshakerz]

I think many on here actually never saw Cronje team. I think they are head and shoulders above smith’s. I would argue that in the late 90’s only one team could realistically challenge Australia and that was South Africa but Smith SA were just really behind Pontings/Clarke’s Australia. Yea I know there was steyn and morkel Amla and abd but still cronje’s team right up until he got found out was a truly awesome team.

Some of the wins, particularly against England have since been proven to have been fixed. Some defeats against the mighty Australians were very close. They were head and shoulders above Pakistan. India may have been a final frontier but it was also for the Australian team until Clarke’s Australia.

Under Smith, they had 8 years of being undefeated away from home.

Once Philander entered the side in 2011, South Africa were easily the best team in the world until Kallis retired in 2014.

Batting-wise there really is no comparison. Graeme Smith, Amla, AB and Kallis (all in their prime around 2008-2013) is just too strong a middle order.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Cronje's team definitely had some good batsmen but they were no world-beaters, Kallis didn't really become a world-class cricketer till about 2001, and Cullinan had his well-documented issues against Australia. Gary Kirsten was really the only dependable batsman that they could count on under pressure. There is really no comparison with the batting line-up in Graeme Smith's team.

Although, I won't be remiss in stating that Cronje's white ball team was superior to the one that Smith led. A large part of that was attributable to Bob Woolmer.

 

[Abid Z]

Under Smith, they had 8 years of being undefeated away from home.

Once Philander entered the side in 2011, South Africa were easily the best team in the world until Kallis retired in 2014.

Batting-wise there really is no comparison. Graeme Smith, Amla, AB and Kallis (all in their prime around 2008-2013) is just too strong a middle order.

Ok so there’s some good points made in the op and by you. But the first issue is that comparing against era’s across formats is never easy and made harder by the fact that cronje was only a captain since around 1995 till 2000 compared to Smith 2003-2014. So 11 years against 5. Then there was so much more cricket in smith time compared to Cronje’s where every test was an event and every Odi was special. During smith’s time t20’s and their innovations came to the fore, smaller grounds better fielding and clever shots and some really soft teams to rotate squads and get more exposure. In cronje’s era all the major teams including West Indies and Zimbabwe were actually very good while Sri Lanka were truly outstanding so the gap between teams was not as glaring as it is ten years on from Cronje’s/Woolmer time.

But another key point is context..Cronje was leading a team not long after readmission so needed considerable time and effort to build a team. Smith of course inherited some good and established players plus of course more money was put into the game. All this makes it as hard to compare Cronje v smith as it does Border v Waugh v ponting. The overlap in personnel across eras make it a really difficult exercise.

I guess the only real variable we can use is that how do Cronje and Smith compare against the best teams of their era. Again this is hard because after about 2000 Australia became arguably the best team in the history of the game while early smith era was so much about rebuilding the team that it took till about 2007 onwards to really cement a playing 11.

Nevertheless I would say Cronje for me wins it hands down. Kallis, Kirsten and culinan were an amazing top order. Cullinan was only weak against warne but he really gave other teams a hard time. I remember a statistic in about 2000 where Kallis (in the team for a few years by then) was the top test bowler, top test batsman, top odi batsman and top odi bowler. I’m pretty sure that’s correct but I have to go from memory.
Then you have Boucher in the middle long regarded as one of the best wicket keeper batsmen till Gilchrist came along. Pollock and Donald were the best attack in the world for a long time in an era competing with w’s, McGrath and co, ambrose and Walsh etc. Can you believe there was a time when Paul adams was neck and neck with Warne and Mushy?

The Shaun pollock captaincy between 2000-2003 muddies the waters somewhat as he bridges the two eras where the team were in dissary while steyn and morkel had quite emerged. Snarling Nel was about the best they could muster while Ray Jennings was a disaster of a coach. Tbf morkel and steyn, then Philander didn’t actually play that much together.

But Cronje partnership with Bob woolmer made an absolutely frightening team and the 1999 World Cup truly encapsulated their place in the world. Head and shoulders above the rest and absolutely neck and neck with Australia.

Interesting thread though.

 

[Robert]

Smith’s due to very strong batting.

Donald and Pollock = Steyn and Philander pretty much.

 

[Savak]

People are seriously underestimating and in fact even have forgotten about Allan Donald. All teams would be terrified at the thought of having to deal with him alone and that was 90% of the battle in South Africa's favour before a ball was bowled. Dale Steyn as world class as a bowler he was and his stats are never had the same fear factor.