Has Pakistan been in a transition phase since 2003?

[sweep_shot]

I believe Pakistan team have been in transition phase since 2003. That was the last time they were a true heavyweight.

It started with the retirements of greats like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saeed Anwar, Saleem Malik etc. Pakistan haven't been able to replace those greats.

Younis Khan did a solid job but he was nowhere near as good as the Pakistani legends from the 90's.

It makes me think that maybe Pakistan didn't focus much on grooming new players in the 90's and they have been catching up since then.

Thoughts?

 

[Majid Khan]

Yes not a day goes by when I don’t regret my post on PakPassion On Sportsnet forums back in 2003 after the World Cup arguing the case for Pakistan cricket to move forward and axe all the seniors from 90s era (Saeed, Ijaz, Inzamam, Wasim, Waqar, Moin) and rebuild with youngsters as the talent was there waiting in the wings to be unleashed and become world beaters - or so it looked until they introduced Hafeez and then it all changed.

That rebuilding process is still going on and hasn’t reached a point where you think right we’ve finally got a settled line up who can all deliver today.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Not really , you can be mediocre and not in the transition state at the same time. We have not been producing quality cricketers for a lomg time now.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Definitely. We failed to set up a transition plan after the 1999 world cup, and ended up taking too many seniors to 2003. Between that time period, we should have developed the crux of a new batting lineup and bowling attack.

We made a lot of bad decisions along the way, and lost individuals like Woolmer, Amir, Asif, Butt, and if you include mismanagement then a whole new set of players.

We’ve always been transitioning and recovering, but never been able to do it properly with, say, a 5 year plan in mind. Even now it’s not too late — despite the shambolic state Pakistan cricket is in, a well fleshed out 5 year plan with eyes on the 2023 WC, 2024 World Test Championship, and 2027 WC can still be formulated with a focus on youngsters and making “tough calls” like dropping seniors.

We’re just really bad at transitioning teams.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

OP is right.

It is a case of not having too many riches combined with the wrong people on the wrong seats on the bus going backwards.

 

[Buffet]

A team in transition for 17 years?

May be you are looking for a different word.

 

[ElRaja]

partly, this was primarily the case in the 00s, but since 2010 the biggest difference has been the professionalisation of the sport with the advent of t20 leagues and the money that has flowed in.

pakistan domestic cricket is still semi-professional, and its obvious from fitness, to mental training to strategy pakistan is a significant way behind england, aus, india and nz, and the gap is getting larger.

we keep hearing those tired old tropes abt natural talent, and a fast bowler in every street, but the point is much like how latin american teams cant compete at the top level in international football, pakistan cricket is the same, living off past glories with little plan of how to move forward with a long term strategy.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan had a good ODI outfit in the 2011 World Cup. Was settled.

Ultimately, the fans need to be patient.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

We are not transitioning. That would make to cpsound like their was a destination.
We are in a permanent state of mediocrity with some occasional bright moments. That’s what it is. During the 90s we had a team full of stars and still didn’t win everything.
I don’t want to sound like Mamoon Mrk2 but the story of Pakistani cricket is mediocrity.
Embrace it and enjoy the (rare) moments of excellence (WC 92, Champions Trophy etc)

 

[sweep_shot]

A team in transition for 17 years?

May be you are looking for a different word.

Have you watched Pakistani team from 90's live? The swagger and skills between that team (90's) and recent teams have been miles apart.

Something went wrong somewhere over the past 20 years.

 

[Buffet]

Have you watched Pakistani team from 90's live? The swagger and skills between that team (90's) and recent teams have been miles apart.

Something went wrong somewhere over the past 20 years.

Yes, I watched entire 90s.

My point was different. No transition lasts for 17 years. Transition already happened and just because next generation is far below 90s, we can't call entire period a tranition.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Have you watched Pakistani team from 90's live? The swagger and skills between that team (90's) and recent teams have been miles apart.

Something went wrong somewhere over the past 20 years.

90's Pakistan is probably the most underachieving side of all time. Pakistan really should've been the best side in the world from early to mid nineties as West Indies was diminishing & Australia were yet to get the Mcgrath/Warne combo. Pakistan also should've atleast played the final in 96 as they had the best side on those conditions. The reason for the failings probably had lot to do with the off field actions but 90s pakistan brand of cricket was also devoid of tactics & strategies. 99 worldcup a great example where Pakistan went to final just through sheer talent. In the Final they only had four genuine batsman(Anwar, Wasti, Ahmed, Haq)
Imagine your team playing the worldcup final against Australia at lords with Razzak & Afridi playing in top 6 against Mcgrath & Warne. They were deservedly butchered because they never really changed any of their game plan even after losing three matches prior to the final.

Pakistan has to realize that in any sport, one cant have a great winning side based on daleri, jajba & badmashi. It also has to be ruthless in its process of selection, role definition of players & be decisive with tactics & strategies. Otherwise Pakistan would remain as a circular motion of mediocrity.

 

[Chokli]

Post 2003 World Cup till 2007 World Cup we were a decent team.

Performed well in 2004 Champs trophy.

2006 Champs Trophy and 2007 were failures. Mostly due to Asif and Akhtar not playing and Younis Khan leading in the former.

We were a decent team in the mid to late 2000s.

2009 onwards ever since that 75 all out in the 3rd ODI vs Sri Lanka is where the problems begun and 2010 spot fixing was the cherry on top.

 

[Markhor]

90's Pakistan is probably the most underachieving side of all time. Pakistan really should've been the best side in the world from early to mid nineties as West Indies was diminishing & Australia were yet to get the Mcgrath/Warne combo. Pakistan also should've atleast played the final in 96 as they had the best side on those conditions. The reason for the failings probably had lot to do with the off field actions but 90s pakistan brand of cricket was also devoid of tactics & strategies. 99 worldcup a great example where Pakistan went to final just through sheer talent. In the Final they only had four genuine batsman(Anwar, Wasti, Ahmed, Haq)
Imagine your team playing the worldcup final against Australia at lords with Razzak & Afridi playing in top 6 against Mcgrath & Warne. They were deservedly butchered because they never really changed any of their game plan even after losing three matches prior to the final.

Pakistan has to realize that in any sport, one cant have a great winning side based on daleri, jajba & badmashi. It also has to be ruthless in its process of selection, role definition of players & be decisive with tactics & strategies. Otherwise Pakistan would remain as a circular motion of mediocrity.

Excellent post. International cricket today requires thorough planning, attention to detail, strategy making and then having players who can execute that strategy on the field. Meanwhile the cult of the individual remains strong in Pakistan cricket where we're relying on individual superstars to carry the team.

Even in the 90s our team as a unit was dysfunctional. There were countless times in ODI cricket where we'd collapse dismally to a score of 150-200 - but were simply lucky we had ATG bowlers to bail us out and defend such cheap totals.

In any other era we'd have lost those games. Relying on that formula is not sustainable !

 

[owais1]

We could have had the following team for the last few years:

Sami Aslam
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam
Usman Salahuddin
Fawad Alam
Mohammad Rizwan
Zafar Gohar
Shadab
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas

Transition is made when new players take over, we kept latching to our TTFs and thats why we have been failing miserably

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

We could have had the following team for the last few years:

Sami Aslam
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam
Usman Salahuddin
Fawad Alam
Mohammad Rizwan
Zafar Gohar
Shadab
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas

Transition is made when new players take over, we kept latching to our TTFs and thats why we have been failing miserably

Keep dreaming about dropping Azhar & Asad. they'll keep on playing till 2040.

 

[unemployedgm]

We don’t know how to build a winning team with top players (90s). Expecting them to win with mediocre talent is impossible.

 

[Abid Z]

partly, this was primarily the case in the 00s, but since 2010 the biggest difference has been the professionalisation of the sport with the advent of t20 leagues and the money that has flowed in.

pakistan domestic cricket is still semi-professional, and its obvious from fitness, to mental training to strategy pakistan is a significant way behind england, aus, india and nz, and the gap is getting larger.

we keep hearing those tired old tropes abt natural talent, and a fast bowler in every street, but the point is much like how latin american teams cant compete at the top level in international football, pakistan cricket is the same, living off past glories with little plan of how to move forward with a long term strategy.

This is a good post but I believe we can flesh out a little more. Pakistan cricket is not in transition because that implies movement..Pakistan cricket is exactly where it was in 2003 but the rest of the cricket world including Bangladesh are moving forward at lightning speed.

There was a time, and this is reinforced in Peter obornes book that Pakistan has wonderful talent that can sparkle and dazzle the world and beat any opposition when the circumstances are right. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are finding out that as talent emerges..Shohaib akhtar (fastest in the world) Sami equally as fast, Shohaib Malik one of the most versatile players in the world in 2005, hafeez at one time one of the best odi all rounders, shabbir Ahmed one of the quickest to 50 wickets, saeed ajmal at one time was unplayable, asif, amir now Naseem yasir shaheen....all have one major problem

That is the structure within they operate encourages mediocrity and nepotism. There is a stifling of natural talent and flawed characters flourish. There is no emphasis on bio mechanics and fitness so poor techniques get over looked. There is a belief that adhoc good performances can be replicated time and time again without narrowing down critically what is making our players successful one day and quite flat the next. Nasir Jamshed and Ahmed shehzad are perfect examples. Bob Woolmer tried to address this very issue in 2005 and understood more than any other the painful process that was required but my god did he get some serious criticism for our initial failures. Of course no cricket between 2007-2009 didn’t help.

See the rest of the world has fabulous training programmes and youth development. Their first class structure is almost at international level so the jump is not so big to international level. All our greats of the past honed their skills at county level yet now counties don’t need Pakistan players as much. Our best at the time players like azhar and junaid were average in county and that’s not a surprise. So where is our talent going to polish off their skills? You just can’t keep beating batsmen with90-92 mph ball’s anymore or with innovations like a doosra. The world has changed.

One day the changes made by pcb in 2019 will begin to bear fruit but as we are starting from such a low base it still can’t be called a transition. First we have to consolidate so the rot doesn’t deepen and I believe we are consolidating.

 

[Bewal Express]

We are always building for the future, this is the future we built, unfortunately we didn't select well enough to reaps the fruits.

 

[cricketfan11]

Pakistan is paying the price for two things mainly. Firstly unjust selection, for ignoring players who definitely deserved more chances (eg Fawad Alam and Asim Kamal).

Secondly for not keeping up with the modern day cricket across the globe. The mentality changed, aggression became the norm, T20 became more widespread. Despite being a good T20 side, their aggression didn't transfer to other formats of the game. The world started investing in leaders who were aggressive mentally (Kohli, Dhoni, Smith) but Pakistan was celebrating Misbah's record in UAE at the time. As you can see, the UAE performance didn't help the team/system in any way long term, because the fundamental strategy was defensive.

There are other reasons such as corruption in the system and poor domestic structure, that is something that you need a long term strategy to eradicate, but the other two reasons above are something that can be remedied more quickly and easily.

 

[ElRaja]

also age fudging, has been a nuisance to pakistan cricket with late 30 year old hovering around the international squad pretending they have 4 or 5 years to play.

its not surprise pakistans fitness and fielding are rubbish when no one is their real age. aint seen anyone in power in pakistan say anything against it.