Has Pakistan finally found an answer to replacing Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam in T20I?

[Cricket Warrior]

Sana Mir has raised questions over the exclusion of Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan from the T20I side:

“Your main team comes under pressure when you corner players through forced selections,”

“When we suggested that maybe one of them should come in between, that didn’t happen. And then suddenly, both were rested or dropped,”

“Now, the pressure of that decision has shifted onto this team. There’s a need to justify somehow that team selection by proving that they [Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan] are not part of the team because they did not play modern-day cricket, and that these players do. So the entire burden has now fallen on this current team, whether they accept it or not,”

“I have said this before that you cannot disregard such big players. You need to make your selection policy a little more consistent,”

 

[Rana]

Sana Mir has raised questions over the exclusion of Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan from the T20I side:

“Your main team comes under pressure when you corner players through forced selections,”

“When we suggested that maybe one of them should come in between, that didn’t happen. And then suddenly, both were rested or dropped,”

“Now, the pressure of that decision has shifted onto this team. There’s a need to justify somehow that team selection by proving that they [Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan] are not part of the team because they did not play modern-day cricket, and that these players do. So the entire burden has now fallen on this current team, whether they accept it or not,”

“I have said this before that you cannot disregard such big players. You need to make your selection policy a little more consistent,”

Sana Mir misleading again. She has a habit of doing this

 

[Mamoon]

Again I repeat

I do not need to provide any evidence to prove myself against you. Those who supported your stance at the time now, and those who knew my stance know as well. One of your supporters was @daytrader who claimed Babar can hit 6x4 in the super over if need be so. He’s living with this shameful claim like you are living with your humiliation, the one you set up for yourself.

You clearly need to provide evidence if you are making a claim and if you cannot provide the evidence, you have to accept that you are a liar.

The only people who are living in humiliation right now are the 0 IQ clowns who claimed that Pakistan post Babar and Rizwan have ushered a new era of a fearless and modern T20 cricket before they got humiliated in Bangladesh

If you want to have the last word, at least come up with something intelligent. I know that might be a stretch for you, but you can at least try.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Brother

My fight against Babar and Rizwan is not based on falsehood like Mamoon’s fight which changes like wind. My stance has been consistent for many years. There are plenty of witnesses to this. And my fight is based on the best interest of Pakistan cricket. You may not like my views on this subject but I will continue to fight for what I know is right in my soul.

Mamoon has a history of picking fights that he cannot win. One of the reasons he suffers so many defeats and humiliations here is his own multiple personalities which are landmines he sets up for himself. These shifts in views are not done after a long time of finally realising something the way @RedwoodOriginal and @DeadlyVenom finally see the light. His shifts are done weekly, monthly or in very short periods.

Today he is adamantly supporting Babar, tomorrow Babar will become his worst enemy. You cannot predict anything with this guy. He stands for nothing. All that’s left for him is to get humiliated again and again, and then abuse people’s parents when he cannot handle the embarrassment he sets himself up for. The mods are witness to this.

There is a difference between finally realising something and deciding that the time is right to give another strategy a try.

You were right about some parts, but some of your criticism was over the top too, and unnecessarily personal, and while it may have not been your fault or intention, you whipped many posters into unnecessary toxicity because of your influence on the forum.

My own POV is that Babar and Rizwan had some good moments, we had two decent world cup campaigns ( of course you can make a counter argument that it was flukes) but their lack of adaptability and accountability when things went wrong marked the end of their career. They also set the team back with their selfishness towards the end. I also didn't support the other side too much who have unreasonable agendas against honest tries like Asif Ali.

Not having a pop at you here, you have every right to say your own stance was correct given what has transpired with our team and I respect your consistency over the years when you were a lone voice. I wanted to clarify my own stance, I was hopeful that they could achieve greatness, and I do not regret backing them at the time, but after giving them enough time realised they didn't have it in them to kick on and achieve what we needed from them. At that point, much like happens in football, it's time to change the personnel and try again.

 

[Rana]

You clearly need to provide evidence if you are making a claim and if you cannot provide the evidence, you have to accept that you are a liar.

The only people who are living in humiliation right now are the 0 IQ clowns who claimed that Pakistan post Babar and Rizwan have ushered a new era of a fearless and modern T20 cricket before they got humiliated in Bangladesh

If you want to have the last word, at least come up with something intelligent. I know that might be a stretch for you, but you can at least try.

Your captain who you vouched for in the 2024wc to take the world by storm has an average of 9 at a sr of 67 in Bangladesh. He scored 43 off 44 against USA, and was hiding at the time of the super over.

 

[Mamoon]

Your captain who you vouched for in the 2024wc to take the world by storm has an average of 9 at a sr of 67 in Bangladesh. He scored 43 off 44 against USA, and was hiding in the bathroom at the time of the super over. Just like you go into hiding.

If you want to have the last word, at least come up with something intelligent. I know that might be a stretch for you, but you can at least try.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Sana Mir misleading again. She has a habit of doing this

She is not wrong, quite sure the current lot are better than 14/4 or 15/5, but due to the enormous pressure of living up to the expectations of modern day cricket, they are committing suicide in almost every game irrespective of conditions or opposition.

Bringing back Babar or Rizwan is not the answer, as we were losing despite them being in the team. Their lack of contribution was directly correlated to the team suffering one defeat after the other. However, the current team is hell-bent on justifying the mantra of a new era and has left all game awareness in their kit bags when they go out on the field.

 

[Rana]

If you want to have the last word, at least come up with something intelligent. I know that might be a stretch for you, but you can at least try.

What have I said that’s factually incorrect

 

[BouncerGuy]

If just naming a player is an answer then yes, but in terms of performance, we might have to show patience I think. Our batters are pathetic and lack game awareness, yes, but it is what it is...

 

[mominsaigol]

If just naming a player is an answer then yes, but in terms of performance, we might have to show patience I think. Our batters are pathetic and lack game awareness, yes, but it is what it is...

Bro i was talking to a Pakistani who wanted to be a cricketer before injury.

In his opinion the biggest problem in Pakistan is that Test Cricket is perceived as a boring sport and financially it isnt worth it compared to league cricket.

We live in a world where bowling 4 overs and batting 20 overs is more lucrative then bowling 25 overs per day.

As a result the main focus in on t20 cricket which causes obvious problems. If kids from PK are being trained In the art of t20 batting then they wont actually develop into anything and will remain hackish.

The best t20 cricketers of all time (Warner, Kohli, Gayle, KP)

^^ None of these boys are hacks. Hence the myth that hacks and sloggers beat techincally proficient batters in t20 is false.

 

[BDfanforever]

I recall seeing Rizwan first in BPL. Not sure what is wrong with RizBabar? They did rake Pakistan to Semi and Final in T20 recently. Yes, loss against USA was embarrassing but in T20 it absolutely can happen.

 

[mominsaigol]

Your captain who you vouched for in the 2024wc to take the world by storm has an average of 9 at a sr of 67 in Bangladesh. He scored 43 off 44 against USA, and was hiding at the time of the super over.

High score 19.

3 t20 games played vs Bangladesh. Avg of 9, sr of 67. Position: Opening.

 

[BouncerGuy]

High score 19.

3 t20 games played vs Bangladesh. Avg of 9, sr of 67. Position: Opening.

Saim has an average of 3.5 in bangladesh.... Can we criticize him for such a small sample size??? Not here to support babar but we gotta see the whole picture also.

Haris has an average of 2...
Hassan nawaz has scored 0 runs in 2 inning...

talk about them also now..

 

[mominsaigol]

Saim has an average of 3.5 in bangladesh.... Can we criticize him for such a small sample size??? Not here to support babar but we gotta see the whole picture also.

Haris has an average of 2...
Hassan nawaz has scored 0 runs in 2 inning...

talk about them also now..

Babar > Saim 100%.

Btw I am supporting Babar to come back as an all format no 3 lol. I've supported that notion since Mickey Arthur.

Just ponting out he wouldnt have changed the outcome vs Bangladesh.

 

[Abid Z]

Babar > Saim 100%.

Btw I am supporting Babar to come back as an all format no 3 lol. I've supported that notion since Mickey Arthur.

Just ponting out he wouldnt have changed the outcome vs Bangladesh.

Really now you’re supporting Barbar return to t20 when consistently you have said he needs to out of the t20 team.

Full disclosure I think babar and Rizwan are two of the best players in Pakistan but the t20 team needs to develop without them now.

The current team has a few bad selections. Bowling is fantastic nothing needs to change.
The wicket keeper-Harris looks poor
Nawaz is simply not an allrounder.

But these are very hard positions to fill. All else is quite good. We will lose with a young experimental team but Pakistan’s focus right now should be getting a good ODI squad so that players can work on their technique and not get away with random hacks.

 

[mominsaigol]

Really now you’re supporting Barbar return to t20 when consistently you have said he needs to out of the t20 team.

Full disclosure I think babar and Rizwan are two of the best players in Pakistan but the t20 team needs to develop without them now.

The current team has a few bad selections. Bowling is fantastic nothing needs to change.
The wicket keeper-Harris looks poor
Nawaz is simply not an allrounder.

But these are very hard positions to fill. All else is quite good. We will lose with a young experimental team but Pakistan’s focus right now should be getting a good ODI squad so that players can work on their technique and not get away with random hacks.

Let me explain the confusion.

He needs to be out of the team if he demands opening or pairs up with rizzu. Both cant play.

Otherwise ive always advocated for what mickey Arthur advocates.

 

[Rana]

But in Bangladesh he is the King we need apparently

 

[mominsaigol]

But in Bangladesh he is the King we need apparently

This going to be Babar's best year, err I mean best 5 months and 7 days going forward.

 

[Rana]

This going to be Babar's best year, err I mean best 5 months and 7 days going forward.

i have a weird feeling Babar and Rizwan’s combined average sr in Bangladesh is 69

 

[mominsaigol]

i have a weird feeling Babar and Rizwan’s combined average sr in Bangladesh is 69

Rizzu has done better in Bangladesh then babar. 30 avg and 90SR. Or ig worse?

Since he actually performed? If you fail your sr decreases but if you perform your sr should be higher then 90

 

[Rana]

Rizzu has done better in Bangladesh then babar. 30 avg and 90SR. Or ig worse?

Since he actually performed? If you fail your sr decreases but if you perform your sr should be higher then 90

MashaAllah a sr of 90

 

[Rana]

What a big miss for Pakistan fans..

They have been robbed of the opportunity to watch Babar and Rizwan combine on these Bangladeshi wickets and produce a sr of 69 in the powerplay!

 

[mominsaigol]

MashaAllah a sr of 90

If you check howstat rizzu doesn't have a sr of 140 or > in any country except Ireland and Pakistan home den.

In england and SA his sr is 130 and 136.

Then Zimbabwe, WI, UAE and NZ he sr is 120, 122, 127, and 125

Every other country including aus, USA etc etc his sr is 90 in t20

 

[Rana]

What a big miss for Pakistan fans..

They have been robbed of the opportunity to watch Babar and Rizwan combine on these Bangladeshi wickets and produce a sr of 69 in the powerplay!

Really sorry for guys like

@Mamoon @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Raja Ishtiaq

 

[Rana]

If you check howstat rizzu doesn't have a sr of 140 or > in any country except Ireland and Pakistan home den.

In england and SA his sr is 130 and 136.

Then Zimbabwe, WI, UAE and NZ he avg 120, 122, 127, and 125

Every other country including aus, USA etc etc his sr is 90 in t20

Rizzu Symonds

ODI player of T20!

 

[BouncerGuy]

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC

 

[mominsaigol]

Rizzu Symonds

ODI player of T20!

He's not a t20 player. Like I said it's best to withhold judgement until WI series.

The issue is both parties Ba/Riz supporters + Ba/Riz haters aren't realising that PK is facing a serious talent crises.

Unless techniques and fitness is ironed out nothing will change. The problem with ba/riz is that they are 30 and 32 with them turning 31 and 33 soon. Their time is short as is given their fitness standard will ensure 36 is their expiring point.

 

[Rana]

He's not a t20 player. Like I said it's best to withhold judgement until WI series.

The issue is both parties Ba/Riz supporters + Ba/Riz haters aren't realising that PK is facing a serious talent crises.

Unless techniques and fitness is ironed out nothing will change. The problem with ba/riz is that they are 30 and 32 with them turning 31 and 33 soon. Their time is short as is given their fitness standard will ensure 36 is their expiring point.

Bro the players shortlisted by Hesson and Co is fine.

He’s our best hope in this hell hole of a management when it comes to identifying proper white ball players

I really wouldn’t think much of this performance on these tracks

Fakhar
Saim
Farhan
Nawaz
Harris
Nafay

They are all gun white ball bats

 

[mominsaigol]

Bro the players shortlisted by Hesson and Co is fine.

He’s our best hope in this hell hole of a management when it comes to identifying proper white ball players

I really wouldn’t think much of this performance on these ***** tracks

Fakhar
Saim
Farhan
Nawaz
Harris
Nafay

They are all gun white ball bats

I am aware, but let the noise die down. I respect our Pakistani posters as well and when such losses happen its easy to blame the current team and believe that players out of the team are > players in the team.

This switching back and forth always ends up hurting Pakistan.

It was the same for imad and Amir. I like those 2, but if youve moved on then its time to move on.

But pcb is a board that will eventually bring the likes of chacha back if social media does another outcry.

Literally a few months ago people were clowning on shadab, now he's being seen as some sort of gun allrounder who is missing out.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[BouncerGuy]

PLEASE TAKE YOUR PERSONAL CHATS SOMEWHERE ELSE... NOT HERE

 

[Mamoon]

Really sorry for guys like

@Mamoon @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Raja Ishtiaq

Don’t feel sorry for us, we have thoroughly enjoyed the humiliation of the modern T20 players in Bangladesh and their fans hiding their faces.

 

[Abid Z]

Let me explain the confusion.

He needs to be out of the team if he demands opening or pairs up with rizzu. Both cant play.

Otherwise ive always advocated for what mickey Arthur advocates.

So what you’re saying is riz and b have a low strike rate so both should not be in the same team. But babar on his own is acceptable alone despite a lowish strike rate as long as he doesn’t open?

 

[mominsaigol]

So what you’re saying is riz and b have a low strike rate so both should not be in the same team. But babar on his own is acceptable alone despite a lowish strike rate as long as he doesn’t open?

Babar at no 3 if haris doesnt kick off yes. Otherwise no. Haris can bat lower if need be.

 

[Abid Z]

Babar at no 3 if haris doesnt kick off yes. Otherwise no. Haris can bat lower if need be.

I’m just trying to pin down what you’re actually saying so you don’t shift position later. You’re saying ..babar has a place in the middle order of the t20 team? Can you explain why?

 

[mominsaigol]

I’m just trying to pin down what you’re actually saying so you don’t shift position later. You’re saying ..babar has a place in the middle order of the t20 team? Can you explain why?

At no 3 yes. No 3 is not middle order.

In t20 Babar avg 44 at no 3 with a 127 SR. Which granted sr wise is low bit it tells us that he sticks around.

Atm on current form saim has low avg + low sr.

Muhammad haris at no 4 avg the sane as no 3, Avg of 31 and sr of 174(no 3) and 172(no 4)

Haris avg and sr however will keep going down if he continues his performance vs Bangladesh like he is at present.

Babar at opening is the problem where he avg 38 and a similar sr to no 3

 

[Abid Z]

Ok so Babar at 3 in a t20? That’s what you’re saying ? Why?

 

[mominsaigol]

Ok so Babar at 3 in a t20? That’s what you’re saying ? Why?

Should have pinged me, I already answered above

 

[mominsaigol]

Ok so Babar at 3 in a t20? That’s what you’re saying ? Why?

See haris departs for 5 of 14. Failed vs Bangladesh.

Babar isn't worse by any means. I am not a ba/riz hater. I say it how it is.

 

[salman24]

I'd rather have Babar and Fakhar than Talat and Haris today. That would be a great lineup.

 

[mominsaigol]

I'd rather have Babar and Fakhar than Talat and Haris today. That would be a great lineup.

I agree with this, but then we dont have a keeper. Rizwan should not play t20. Odi and test is fine

 

[Abid Z]

Should have pinged me, I already answered above

You have not given justification of why Babar should be in the line up (at 3)

 

[mominsaigol]

At no 3 yes. No 3 is not middle order.

In t20 Babar avg 44 at no 3 with a 127 SR. Which granted sr wise is low bit it tells us that he sticks around.

Atm on current form saim has low avg + low sr.

Muhammad haris at no 4 avg the sane as no 3, Avg of 31 and sr of 174(no 3) and 172(no 4)

Haris avg and sr however will keep going down if he continues his performance vs Bangladesh like he is at present.

Babar at opening is the problem where he avg 38 and a similar sr to no 3

^^ @Abid Z

 

[Abid Z]

This is a fundamentally flawed position. Of course Babar should be nowhere near the t20 team but for a multitude of reasons. Strike rate isn’t one of them and s/r taken in isolation is a rather misleading statistic. Strike rate, combined with average, assessment against, grounds, conditions, attack. All need to be factors in building a squad. It’s squad building that’s key not necessarily winning. Of course nobody wants to lose with poorly selected youngsters, but winning with the same 11 across formats is an outdated concept. Pak needs LO. Specialists that are 360 degree players. Babar just isn’t one of them though he’s the best test batsman in Pak

 

[mominsaigol]

This is a fundamentally flawed position. Of course Babar should be nowhere near the t20 team but for a multitude of reasons. Strike rate isn’t one of them and s/r taken in isolation is a rather misleading statistic. Strike rate, combined with average, assessment against, grounds, conditions, attack. All need to be factors in building a squad. It’s squad building that’s key not necessarily winning. Of course nobody wants to lose with poorly selected youngsters, but winning with the same 11 across formats is an outdated concept. Pak needs LO. Specialists that are 360 degree players. Babar just isn’t one of them though he’s the best test batsman in Pak

Point is Babar atm is better then Saim and Haris. That's a fact.

On current form Farhan is better as we observed today and in PSL.

I am selecting the best possible playing 11. If saim and haris perform which I want them to, then yes I will retract my statement.

 

[Abid Z]

Point is Babar atm is better then Saim and Haris. That's a fact.

On current form Farhan is better as we observed today and in PSL.

I am selecting the best possible playing 11. If saim and haris perform which I want them to, then yes I will retract my statement.

Babar is the best batsman in the country. There is no doubt about that. But the t20 team needs to build without him, Rizwan, Saud etc.

Pak needs more 360 degree batsmen and also players with good solid technique. These may be complete binaries. At the moment there is a long way to go. But the team has to start somewhere.

 

[Abid Z]

Point is Babar atm is better then Saim and Haris. That's a fact.

On current form Farhan is better as we observed today and in PSL.

I am selecting the best possible playing 11. If saim and haris perform which I want them to, then yes I will retract my statement.

You are not selecting the best players you are reacting to what you see on your screen match to match.

 

[Greenstorm]

Babar > Saim 100%.

Btw I am supporting Babar to come back as an all format no 3 lol. I've supported that notion since Mickey Arthur.

Just ponting out he wouldnt have changed the outcome vs Bangladesh.

What ?

My top order that I have posted here before has been like this;

1. Saim
2. Farhan/Yasir
3. Fakhar
(M Harris at 7)
How is Babar a better option than these 3 in T20Is ?

Babar at 3 is even a bigger liability as he cannot accelerate during middle overs.

 

[mominsaigol]

What ?

My top order that I have posted here before has been like this;

1. Saim
2. Farhan/Yasir
3. Fakhar
(M Harris at 7)
How is Babar a better option than these 3 in T20Is ?

Babar at 3 is even a bigger liability as he cannot accelerate during middle overs.

Your top order is better. I did not consider the possibility of fakhar at no 3.

My bad.

 

[BouncerGuy]

If haris is your replacement for them, then you are crazy because this guy has zero game awareness. He might have talent but his ability to use that talent of his is limited.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Brother

My fight against Babar and Rizwan is not based on falsehood like Mamoon’s fight which changes like wind. My stance has been consistent for many years. There are plenty of witnesses to this. And my fight is based on the best interest of Pakistan cricket. You may not like my views on this subject but I will continue to fight for what I know is right in my soul.

Mamoon has a history of picking fights that he cannot win. One of the reasons he suffers so many defeats and humiliations here is his own multiple personalities which are landmines he sets up for himself. These shifts in views are not done after a long time of finally realising something the way @RedwoodOriginal and @DeadlyVenom finally see the light. His shifts are done weekly, monthly or in very short periods.

Today he is adamantly supporting Babar, tomorrow Babar will become his worst enemy. You cannot predict anything with this guy. He stands for nothing. All that’s left for him is to get humiliated again and again, and then abuse people’s parents when he cannot handle the embarrassment he sets himself up for. The mods are witness to this.

Brother, I may not agree with your views on Rizwan and Babar, but I respect a man who stands by his views and words no matter what. This is the reason I can have more respect for an Indian fan or even PTI fan even if I don't like their views than someone like the poster you quoted who changes his opinion like the wind. I know you have the best interests of Pakistan at heart and you are a knowledgeable cricket fan. Whether I agree with your views on Rizwan and Babar or not, I have respect for you brother. Keep fighting your fight and may the best man win.