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Has Pakistan run out of express pacers?

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Abdullah Salman

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Pakistan - The country that not only produced the worlds best fast bowlers but also the worlds fastest bowlers. Imran, Akhtar, Sami, Zahid, Waqar, Aamir, there were so many express pacers and now, we don't even have one. We have got Irfan, who just has another year or two left in him who has once in his career got to 150, and we have Riaz, who's gotten to 149 KPH once in his entire career and this isn't even express pace. I mean, these guys can't even bowl above 144 kph consistently while of all countries, Indian bowlers Varun Aaron and Umesh Yadav are consistently bowling over 145 and Aaron get to 152 Kph easily. Then there's Adam Milne from New Zealand who's bowling at 150 KPH consistently. Dale Steyn, Merchant De Lange and Morne Morkel, who bowl above 145 consistently from South Africa. Then Australians have Mitchell Johnson, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc and Shaun Tait, who are all express pacers. West Indies have Kemar Roach and Fidel Edwards who are express pacers. Sri Lanka has Malinga who can bowl above 145 Kph easily when fit. England have got Steven Finn and Broad who can bowl over the 145's consistently. So, Pakistan, the country that produced the fastest bowlers, is going to be the only one thats going to be deprived of them in the World Cup of 2015 in the fast and bouncy pitches of Australia and New Zealand. So, there is obviously no hope for this one, but for future planning, who have we got? Or how are we going to produce someone like an Akhtar?
 
But, my friend, I'm afraid you're forgetting that he's banned, and even if he does come back, I don't really think he'd be able to extract the kind of pace he used to.
 
I want to see a bowler who easily crossed the 150 kph barrier like New Zealand's Milne.
 
There aren't many in world who can bowl 145+ consistently so it's not just Pakistan. And here you are talking about 150+
 
A bit of a silly OP. Unless you're suggesting that Pakistani coaches 'weed out' bowlers who are ultra fast. There are three elements needed for a player to succeed.

1. Natural ability

2. Either sheer luck by being spotted because the right individual happened to have been watching when the player scored a few runs or took a few wickets. On another day, the luck may have passed him by - say by being out early or having a bad spell when the 'spotter' was around. Or the 'spotter' left early and never saw the player play.

Alternatively, having the right connections such as having a brother / father / cousin / uncle who also played at a higher level and ensured you were given a few decent trials.

3. The right type of coaching and wickets, plus putting up a good show when the chance does arrive.

In a country like Pakistan, there will be plenty who fit the bill for point 1. Point 2 is just that, luck. Point 3 is dependant upon the structure in the country. And despite the various issues with the PCB, the structure is still good enough to bring through bowlers who have the right ability.

So less of this doom and gloom. These things go in circles. India used to be the kings of spin and severely lacking in quality fast bowlers. Currently it's the opposite. All it takes one good bowler to come through and suddenly the perception will change again.
 
Fast bowler needs that extra care which unfortunately is not PCBs priority at the moment. Lot of fast bowler comes and gets injured in early stages of their career due to lack of training.
Imran knew the value of wasim and waqar. Same way wasim knew how much havoc shoaib could create by just bowling fast. But Misbah trust and prefer bowlers like abdur rehman and babar zulfiqar. Its all about d3mand and supply.
 
I think Gul and Wahab can both crank it up to 150 when they bend their backs. Irfan could also do it depending on how pumped up he is. But there aren't any bowlers who can bowl at 150 kph consistently.
 
Pakistan need new ball bowlers who can swing the ball, just bowling fast without any direction is not going to help .
 
Express pacers have always been rare and Aamir was not express. He was capable of 150+ but only in the odd spell. Johnson was express last season where he maintained an average speed of around 91 mph over 8 test matches. I doubt Milne would bowl that quick in test matches.
 
Amir was hardly express. He was more like Ishant Sharma who bowled a few quick spells in Australia, but hovered around 135-140 kph in most of the matches.

Sami's current pace to is something you hear only from Pakistani fans without much proof. He is old, so there is no way he can be as fast as people here would like to assume.

Irfan gives it his all in the first 3 overs, so I don't count him among the express pacers. As for Wahab, he is quick, but his average pace for the last 8-10 matches has been around 135-138kph... which is a concern unless he is doing this intentionally.
 
Its about priorities,spinners take more wickets in Asia nowadays and get better T20 contracts and don't require a fitness regime of a fast bowler not to forget the flat pitches.Obviously fast bowlers are amazing to have they can create the fear but at the end of the day its about whether a person is ready to sacrifice all that.Fast bowling(with precision) is imo the hardest in cricket,WI had many of them and see now.Credit should be given to Aus,NZ and SA where they keep producing amazing fast bowlers.
 
There is no one in the world who can clock 150+ as easily as Milne. Varun aaron can do it on odd occassion but nowhere as consistently as milne. same for Johnson. For pakistan, Usman khan Shinwari can be a genuine prospect in future. He is young, promising and should be nurtured.
 
Talha who was once a 150 KPH fast bowler has now turned into a medium fast bowler. Wahab and Junaid are the only bowlers atm who can touch 150's in Pakistan.
 
aukhan said:
Talha who was once a 150 KPH fast bowler has now turned into a medium fast bowler. Wahab and Junaid are the only bowlers atm who can touch 150's in Pakistan.
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I don't think I've seen Junaid bowl a single delivery at 150 kph ever in his career. Even Irfan has touched 150 only once or twice. Wahab is the only I've seen bowl past 150's on more than a couple of occasions but not this year.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I don't think I've seen Junaid bowl a single delivery at 150 kph ever in his career. Even Irfan has touched 150 only once or twice. Wahab is the only I've seen bowl past 150's on more than a couple of occasions but not this year.
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There was a span of few matches(probably right after the India series) when Junaid was bowling as quick as Irfan. But as of now, he is nowhere near that kind of pace.
 
aukhan said:
Talha who was once a 150 KPH fast bowler has now turned into a medium fast bowler. Wahab and Junaid are the only bowlers atm who can touch 150's in Pakistan.
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Don't Think Junaid will. speed is not his domain. Wahab more likely
 
Sorry i mistakenly wrote Junaid there instead of Irfan. It's Irfan and Wahab for us atm who can touch 150 KPH mark.

Junaid is not someone i rate at all. He is a Medium pace average bowler with poor new ball skills.
 
aukhan said:
Sorry i mistakenly wrote Junaid there instead of Irfan. It's Irfan and Wahab for us atm who can touch 150 KPH mark.

Junaid is not someone i rate at all. He is a Medium pace average bowler with poor new ball skills.
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How good is usman khan shinwari(speed-wise)? I feel he can be a genuine prospect for pakistan in near future
 
Enforcer said:
How good is usman khan shinwari(speed-wise)? I feel he can be a genuine prospect for pakistan in near future
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I have seen him bowling few times only. Pace was decent but he is young and can increase his pace with the right coaching.

He is a good prospect for future.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I don't think I've seen Junaid bowl a single delivery at 150 kph ever in his career. Even Irfan has touched 150 only once or twice. Wahab is the only I've seen bowl past 150's on more than a couple of occasions but not this year.
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the fastest i have seen of junaid is 148 kph. dont exactly remember the opposition.. he can bowl over 140kph but 150 is very far away.

also one more point to be noted is that there are zero "GOOD" express fast bowlers apart from jhonno if u consider him express. he bowls mostly between 140 to 145 with odd deliveries over 145 or touching 150. same is steyn who was express fast to begin with but not now. dont care whether he chooses to be like this or its the age factor but he isnt express fast now. and like somebody mentioned already there is no bowler in the world except milne who can bowl at 150+ easily in all conditions. and he too is not a very "good" express fast bowler as of now. hardly gets any wickets. he has potential though and i expect him to become really good in future. in the past express fast bowlers like waqar, shoaib, the windies bowlers, lilee, thompson, imran, wasim all used their pace to a good effect.
 
Madplayer said:
the fastest i have seen of junaid is 148 kph. dont exactly remember the opposition.. he can bowl over 140kph but 150 is very far away.

also one more point to be noted is that there are zero "GOOD" express fast bowlers apart from jhonno if u consider him express. he bowls mostly between 140 to 145 with odd deliveries over 145 or touching 150. same is steyn who was express fast to begin with but not now. dont care whether he chooses to be like this or its the age factor but he isnt express fast now. and like somebody mentioned already there is no bowler in the world except milne who can bowl at 150+ easily in all conditions. and he too is not a very "good" express fast bowler as of now. hardly gets any wickets. he has potential though and i expect him to become really good in future. in the past express fast bowlers like waqar, shoaib, the windies bowlers, lilee, thompson, imran, wasim all used their pace to a good effect.
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Johnson was express last season during the Ashes and the tour of SA. Average pace of around 90 mph over all his spells across 8 matches and quite a few over 150 kph. This year his pace has not quite been express. Milne is express I agree. He bowls around 147/148 average in ODI's but can he sustain that in long test match spells? Probably but I saw Varun Aaron maintain an average pace of around 147 against SL in the ODI's but was comfortably 5kph slower on avg. in tests. So we have to wait and see whether Milne is a true test match speed demon or not.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Johnson was express last season during the Ashes and the tour of SA. Average pace of around 90 mph over all his spells across 8 matches and quite a few over 150 kph. This year his pace has not quite been express. Milne is express I agree. He bowls around 147/148 average in ODI's but can he sustain that in long test match spells? Probably but I saw Varun Aaron maintain an average pace of around 147 against SL in the ODI's but was comfortably 5kph slower on avg. in tests. So we have to wait and see whether Milne is a true test match speed demon or not.
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Before Ashes and tour to south Africa, Johnson bowled some 'super fast' spells against india in that high scoring odi series in India. He was easily 150+ and even clocked 154-155 ks in one of the odis(i think the jaipur one). He carried that form in Ashes and the rest is history
 
Enforcer said:
Before Ashes and tour to south Africa, Johnson bowled some 'super fast' spells against india in that high scoring odi series in India. He was easily 150+ and even clocked 154-155 ks in one of the odis(i think the jaipur one). He carried that form in Ashes and the rest is history
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Yep. He was making our bats hop on those super flat roads. Even in the ashes, he went as high as 156/157 kph. Don't think he will ever bowl that quick again. That is the thing with express pace. It is difficult to be consistently express pace for more than a couple of seasons in Test cricket. Except perhaps Brett Lee who had superhuman average pace throughout his Test career.
 
I dont really care about the pace of a bowler overall, the main problem for pakistan right now is producing half decent fast/seamer bowlers for international cricket.
 
I don't see much of the Hobbits but this thread prompted me to look up Adam Milne on YouTube. He's express for sure.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Yep. He was making our bats hop on those super flat roads. Even in the ashes, he went as high as 156/157 kph. Don't think he will ever bowl that quick again. That is the thing with express pace. It is difficult to be consistently express pace for more than a couple of seasons in Test cricket. Except perhaps Brett Lee who had superhuman average pace throughout his Test career.
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Brett Lee used to bowl well within himself most of the test matches I saw him play and I saw a lot of him. Around the 145 kmh and sometimes even less, I rarely saw any fearsome spells which was a surprise because he we all know how fast he was. His consistent speeds in the '03 World cup were frightening.
 
Abdullah Salman said:
But, my friend, I'm afraid you're forgetting that he's banned, and even if he does come back, I don't really think he'd be able to extract the kind of pace he used to.
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In the long term he will physically be better off for his ban to be perfectly honest.

Just look at all the injuries two of his age peers (Cummins and Milne) have had.

And if you look back into history many young quicks have serious injury problems at that sort of age.

So Amir has avoided one of the most injury prone periods for fast bowlers
 
Amir wasnt express either.. he used to bowl mostly in late 130s. His action wont allow him to bowl express without injuring himself.
 
as-95 said:
Did you see him in Australia? :facepalm:
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Vinay Kumar bowled 145 kph in Australia, Ishant bowled 153 in Australia. Sometimes we need to look at a bowler's pace overall in order to determine how fast they are.

There will always be a couple of fast spells in a bowler's lifetime, doesn't make them express. ( Zaheer and Nehra bowling 145+kph in 2003).
 
I have watched every freaking ball Amir delivered in international cricket and I can safely say he was express indeed. People believe what they want to believe but I find it amusing that a bowler who was 17 yes 17!!! and clocking 149/148 in Aus is not considered Express. ?? :facepalm:

P.S. It is another thing that Amir was clever and talented enough to actually lower his pace, intentionally and use the conditions with great swing and seam which is clearly lacking in any other bowler in his age group so this is the reason many believe he was not express which is clearly not the case at all. There was a reason why Wasim said that Amir was better than him when he was 18 and clearly Wasim, being himself an express bowler, took pace into account when making that assessment.
 
If Amir isn't express than we're limiting express to Akhtar, Lee and Tait
 
I don't really care about bowlers hitting 150km to be honest, we have Wahab Riaz who can get close to that, but I'd far prefer a bowler who can bowl around 140km and get some movement and bowl in the right areas.
 
Yes, we have.Just look at the mediocre bowlers we have produced in the past 3/4 years: Bhatti,Cheema,Asad, and a couple of others.
 
Saying all this , I will be happy with a good new ball bowler who can regularly get the top order wickets with the new ball.
 
Valid question from the OP.

Mohammad Zahid said the same thing in his blog not so long ago.

We seem to be either producing medium fast bowlers of some ability, or fast medium bowlers who don't have a lot of control.

The 150kph bowlers seem to be a distant dream these days.
 
I dont care about express pace bowlers if they r not consistent! For example Wahab! Anyways Amir will be back! And Mir Hamza is damn impressive, Ehsan Adil is good and Sadaf Hussain may be tried! The trio may not be express but can be handy at international level! With time they can raise their pace! So if there comes any express pacer in domestic and he is consistent too like Akhtar then it may be a blessing!
 
zabalestmsm said:
I dont care about express pace bowlers if they r not consistent! For example Wahab! Anyways Amir will be back! And Mir Hamza is damn impressive, Ehsan Adil is good and Sadaf Hussain may be tried! The trio may not be express but can be handy at international level! With time they can raise their pace! So if there comes any express pacer in domestic and he is consistent too like Akhtar then it may be a blessing!
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who cares about "handy" bowlers. we want beasts :afridi:
 
We want beasts. Absolutely yes. Pak ckt in 80s, 90s was known for their fast men. It was a treat to watch. One of many reasons of not following pak ckt as religiously as before has been the lack of THE BEAST (s)
 
Guys, I never said that express pacers were beasts and that fast medium bowlers wouldn't be good enough. But, as I've been watch cricket, having a bowler who can get an over with 3 145+ deliveries right at the end is pretty useful. Lets be honest, we've got Wahab Riaz who can do that, but he doesn't do it. He has the ability to become express, but just isn't. The problem with Pakistan is that they aren't investing in their fast bowlers and whether you like it or not, t/20's have ruined the game of cricket in every field. Fast bowlers do not concentrate on bowling fast anymore, or swinging the ball, these new techniques have destroyed the sport, if they are being applied, then only should be as far as you are in the field for a game of 20/20 and so much cricket leagues and tournaments have caused bowlers like Malinga and even Tait to become fast-medium bowlers.
 
16 years have gone by since an Express Pacer made debut for Pakistan.

Even in 2009 Shoaib after 12 years of tons of injuries and International Cricket was clocking 96mph in England.


Miss those days.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
16 years have gone by since an Express Pacer made debut for Pakistan.

Even in 2009 Shoaib after 12 years of tons of injuries and International Cricket was clocking 96mph in England.


Miss those days.
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Please find one fast bhai. Wahab is on his last legs. I was hoping Ghulam would get there, but probably not. The faster we find one, the faster Wahab gets out of the team.
 
Pakistan has ever had only two express pacers who played for some time , zahid broke his back. Wasim at his fastest was probably as fast as wahab. The domestic scene is totally barren and even the speed contests could not provide one very fast bowler.
 
Unless domestic wickets & FC match duration changes - in few years time, AFG 'll produce faster & BD 'll produce more skilled pacer than PAK.

For 13 overs work load in a full day, if you can end-up with figures like 13 - 4 - 35 - 3; bowling at 125km average pace & effort ball reaching 134km, only a dumb, fool, idiot will risk injury to add 15km in both categories - that too for a 23-25 overs work load in a day.
 
An express bowler is someone who consistently bowls over 150 kph like Shoaib and lee

There are no express bowlers anywhere in the world at the moment.

Wahab is fast but not express
 
TahirFan said:
An express bowler is someone who consistently bowls over 150 kph like Shoaib and lee

There are no express bowlers anywhere in the world at the moment.

Wahab is fast but not express
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He definitely used to be. Bowled one at 158 at CT and 155 at WC 2015.
 
Rayyman said:
Please find one fast bhai. Wahab is on his last legs. I was hoping Ghulam would get there, but probably not. The faster we find one, the faster Wahab gets out of the team.
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One out of Umari, Zahid & Ehtisham can become Fast. Let's see.

But I don’t see either of them becoming express pacer.
 
[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] The days of obsession with express fast bowlers..
 
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