Has Ravichandran Ashwin become a Test specialist?

[Joseph Gomes]

His ODI record is pathetic in last 2 years, and now he's missing this tour because of 'rest'. Unfortunately he doesn't live in 1970s, so unless he wants to become a cricket great (let alone ATG), he has to have good ODI record.

Muralitharan has over 500 ODI scalps, Ashwin is a softie

 

[Ab Fan]

His ODI record is pathetic in last 2 years, and now he's missing this tour because of 'rest'. Unfortunately he doesn't live in 1970s, so unless he wants to become a cricket great (let alone ATG), he has to have good ODI record.

Muralitharan has over 500 ODI scalps, Ashwin is a softie

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Ashwin has been poor in odis in last few years.I do agree that you cant be an ATG if you are not good in odis and that's why i won't consider Younis,Cook or Yasir an ATG in this era although they aren't even in tests.As for Ashwin, he wasn't that good in big icc tournaments too.

 

[Proactive_]

Correction: "Has Ashwin become an Asia only Test specialist?"

The answer: Obviously yes.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Atleast follow the events properly and learn the interpret what's going on.

Softie? LMAO.

 

[IndianWillow]

I dont think ODI greatness is required for a bowler to be considered ATG. For a batsman - yes. Rules and conditions are too batsmen friendly in ODIs and T20s and it is very taxing for a modern bowler to adjust. Too many ODI exposures can hurt the bowler in tests and it is detrimental to the team's cause. Even Steyn wasn't a great ODI bowler but he is certainly an ATG bowler. Swann was a very good test bowler but not a great ODI bowler.

 

[UN talkz]

Yes

 

[IMMY69]

"Home" test specialist

 

[Hasan123]

Clearly tests is his stronger suit but he isn't as bad in ODIs as people make out. He performed well in the 2013 CT and 2015 WC.

 

[troodon]

Ashwin should concentrate on Test cricket. Leave the LOI cricket to Kuldeep and Jaddu.

 

[squarecut]

There is no need for him to play all formats, unlike say Shakib who is forced to play in all formats because his team lacks good replacements. Let Ashwin concentrate on tests. His ODI record is not all that bad, but he need not prove anything to anyone. He is on course to become fastest to reach various test bowling landmarks and he should concentrate on that.

 

[squarecut]

Correction: "Has Ashwin become an Asia only Test specialist?"

The answer: Obviously yes.

What is the problem in that ? You can find similar descriptions for all other great bowlers and batsmen. For instance, Warne can be described as a wicket taker against those teams who lacked the batting ability to play leg spin.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Ashwin is India's biggest clutch bowler in ODIs (check stats).

Only in CT 2017 he flopped and mainly because he bowled like a coward (flat darts) for which he deserves to be dropped for a while. The pitches were horrendous but he could have done better.

Before CT 2017, Ashwin didn't have a single bad game in ICC knockout. You read that right, not a single bad game.

Averages 23 in WC 2011 (gun performance in QF 2011 before getting dropped)
Averages 22 in CT 2013 (gun performance in finals.....was good in SF too)
Averages 25 in WC 2015 (averages 70 in knockouts...but dig deep and you will find that both the games he had damn good performances..0/30 against Bangladesh who stopped even trying to hit him....and 1/42 against Aus when there was carnage on the other end in a complete patta)

Ashwin has to work on his game a bit comeback into the team. I think he will be back.

 

[Justcrazy]

There is no harm in concentrating in Test Matches, all players will not be playing all formats.

 

[MMHS]

I think, he is still a class ODI bowler, but probably age, fitness, fielding & his impact-less batting at 7/8 has forced him/selectors to limit his ODI appearance. Besides, next WC is in UK - based on this CT, I don't think management isn't convinced about his role in next WC. We might not see him play many ODI from now on.

 

[Proactive_]

What is the problem in that ? You can find similar descriptions for all other great bowlers and batsmen. For instance, Warne can be described as a wicket taker against those teams who lacked the batting ability to play leg spin.

No problem at all. He can be India's bowling version of Mahela Jayawardene who is a pretty respected batsman. The only thing is that then bowlers like Lyon would always be rated above him owing to their superior performances on a variety of surfaces.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Yes, he's a test specialist. Even his batting suits tests more.

 

[bujhee kom]

Home track bully. I dont rate him so highly for that reason.

 

[CricFan2012]

yah but he is also a t20 and odi specialist as well, great cricketer

 

[Specialisttailender]

I dont think ODI greatness is required for a bowler to be considered ATG. For a batsman - yes. Rules and conditions are too batsmen friendly in ODIs and T20s and it is very taxing for a modern bowler to adjust. Too many ODI exposures can hurt the bowler in tests and it is detrimental to the team's cause. Even Steyn wasn't a great ODI bowler but he is certainly an ATG bowler. Swann was a very good test bowler but not a great ODI bowler.

If you are an ATG, you should be able to adapt according to formats, conditions and have longevity. Yes ODI and T20 are favoured towards batsmen but that is not an excuse. If you attack Ashwin he struggles and tries too many things, he even admitted that he rather experiment in a match than practice first which is stupid. His experiments go wrong, he bowls too full or or too short. He has an arm ball and leg spin. Arm ball is easy to pick and leg spin is in accurate. Carrom ball is gone. He has no way to counter attack batsmen. Unless condition is in his favour, he is reliable. He doesn't create opportunities.

 

[bujhee kom]

Since the 90s, ATG status overall requires success in Tests & ODIs. Before the 90s, ODI were minor in regard and status. You can be a test great or an ODI great, but to be an ATG you have to have success in both.

 

[sachin100]

He has become the new bhajji in the sense he darts the ball in to the pads just to contain runs and doesn't flight a single ball.

I get very very irritated on seeing him bowling leg side filth and customery halftrackers.

He is finished in odis and t 20 untill he reverts to fighting the ball. He is very afraid of tonked for sixes and odi pitches in icc tournaments are a disgrace for spinners particularly finger spinners.

He is an indian version of jimmy Anderson in test cricket. If he performs better in sa, eng he can get to jimmy level overall otherwise he is just a home bully

 

[Joseph Gomes]

yah but he is also a t20 and odi specialist as well, great cricketer

Who? Ashwin? Ashwin's stats in ODIs is below average

 

[CanadianG00se]

It is safe to assume that K. Yadav have killed Ashwin's LOI career. Ashwin is huge liability on field and his bowling is also toothless on pattas. Glad Kohli and co realized that and providing more opportunities to K Yadav.

 

[sachin100]

It is safe to assume that K. Yadav have killed Ashwin's LOI career. Ashwin is huge liability on field and his bowling is also toothless on pattas. Glad Kohli and co realized that and providing more opportunities to K Yadav.

Jaddu will also encounter the same fate as icc tournaments are grave yards for darters and finger spinners

 

[Dingolfy]

Jaddu will also encounter the same fate as icc tournaments are grave yards for darters and finger spinners

Chahal would replace him soon.Wrist spinners are the go-to men in the era of super-pattas.

 

[Dingolfy]

Also his Test status is also under threat as he is not that great outside India and we got lot of overseas tours coming on.Unless he improves drastically and shows that in the current county season, he is going to be replaced soon in Test cricket too.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Do you guys get a feeling that Kohli and co are actually building a team that consist bowlers who takes wickets(wirst spinners) even if it means getting hit for some runs. I mean under Dhoni we all know he had a plan that was to choke the run flow and wickets will come, Kohli is quite contrast to that, he goes for kill(wickets). This is why perhaps we see Chahal and K Yadav being prefer over Jaddu/Ashwin. If this is the case then im sure we Indian fans gonna love how this team shapes up for worldcup. K Yadav is already troubling batsmen with his variations and Chahal will choke the run flow with his immaculate control. Only wish we could find one quality seamer( Hassan Ali type).

 

[Chrish]

Yes as he should.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ashwin even as a batsman is less useful in ODIs.

 

[IndianWillow]

Do you guys get a feeling that Kohli and co are actually building a team that consist bowlers who takes wickets(wirst spinners) even if it means getting hit for some runs. I mean under Dhoni we all know he had a plan that was to choke the run flow and wickets will come, Kohli is quite contrast to that, he goes for kill(wickets). This is why perhaps we see Chahal and K Yadav being prefer over Jaddu/Ashwin. If this is the case then im sure we Indian fans gonna love how this team shapes up for worldcup. K Yadav is already troubling batsmen with his variations and Chahal will choke the run flow with his immaculate control. Only wish we could find one quality seamer( Hassan Ali type).

It is not a good idea to build a one shoe fits all bowling unit like this. You need to select a right mix of bowlers for the conditions. On wickets where the difference between the bowlers is marginalized(like a batting beauty) I would have tend to prefer bowlers who can do 1/50 instead of 2/65. On lively wickets bowlers who do 3/50 over 1/40 will influence the game more.

 

[sachin100]

It is not a good idea to build a one shoe fits all bowling unit like this. You need to select a right mix of bowlers for the conditions. On wickets where the difference between the bowlers is marginalized(like a batting beauty) I would have tend to prefer bowlers who can do 1/50 instead of 2/65. On lively wickets bowlers who do 3/50 over 1/40 will influence the game more.

Haha. Its the opposite. In pattas wickets are more useful to contain the rains.

By the way ashwin is not even doing a containing job. He is taken to the cleaners

 

[IndianWillow]

Haha. Its the opposite. In pattas wickets are more useful to contain the rains.

By the way ashwin is not even doing a containing job. He is taken to the cleaners

On phattas you are not going to take too many wickets in ODIs anyway, so go for bowlers who can restrict the opposition to 300/2 rather than 350/5!!

 

[CanadianG00se]

On phattas you are not going to take too many wickets in ODIs anyway, so go for bowlers who can restrict the opposition to 300/2 rather than 350/5!!

Bro but he has a valid point, on pattas Jadeja and Ashwin will be taken to cleaners. How do u see K Yadav being less effective than ashwin on flat pitches? If anything batsmen have trouble picking up his variations. Ashwin on other hand will lose his marbles as soon he gets hit for few sixes.

 

[IndianWillow]

Bro but he has a valid point, on pattas Jadeja and Ashwin will be taken to cleaners. How do u see K Yadav being less effective than ashwin on flat pitches? If anything batsmen have trouble picking up his variations. Ashwin on other hand will lose his marbles as soon he gets hit for few sixes.

How can you generalize Ashwin's overall performance based on some recent stats? He had been a pretty successful ODI bowler overall and was one of the key bowlers for India during WC 2015 on Australian conditions, and in other big tournaments. If he is not in good ODI form right now, he needed not be selected until he regains that form. These generalizations for a successful ODI bowler is too much. An ODI bowler losing his marbles cannot have overall economy of 4.91 after 110 matches, inspite of playing a lot on Indian phattas where the par score is 280-290.

 

[CanadianG00se]

How can you generalize Ashwin's overall performance based on some recent stats? He had been a pretty successful ODI bowler overall and was one of the key bowlers for India during WC 2015 on Australian conditions, and in other big tournaments. If he is not in good ODI form right now, he needed not be selected until he regains that form. These generalizations for a successful ODI bowler is too much. An ODI bowler losing his marbles cannot have overall economy of 4.91 after 110 matches, inspite of playing a lot on Indian phattas where the par score is 280-290.

Ashwin needs to regain his form and fitness before he should be considered for selection. His past performance should have minium baring on his selection as currently not only he is struggling with form but also with his fitness. Lately we have been hearing from management that they are pushing all players to be fit and energetic. Now ask yourself, does ashwin looks fit and athletic to you? His ground fielding is cringeworthy and would not expect him to chase and save a boundary. And if he gets hit around while bowling then one must really question management decision as to what exactly is his role in the team. Did you forget CT Final?
Just because he had good performance in WC 15 doesn't mean he should get preferential treatment. If he wants to get back in team then he better shred extra weight and prove his fitness that he is fit like every other player and lastly need to prove his form. He shouldnt be selected based on his performance two years ago and/or his test performance. He need to perform in domestic with white ball and preferably on flat pitches. As of now, K Yadav is number 1 spinner for ODIs followed by Chahal. Ashwin doesnt belong to Odis, not with huge pot belly.

 

[sachin100]

On phattas you are not going to take too many wickets in ODIs anyway, so go for bowlers who can restrict the opposition to 300/2 rather than 350/5!!

As ashwin was a horrible failure in his last icc tournament and other matches for almost 2 yrs how can u justify his continued inclusion in odis.

U r advocating for a bowler who is failing constantly to continue and writing of a new prospect who is performing very well

 

[IndianWillow]

Ashwin has experience on his side. He did badly in CT but an experienced spinner who is only aged 31 need not be shown the exit door. Yeah he needs to regain his form and fitness and dropping him for the time being will motivate him to force his way into the side if he is still serious about playing ODIs. No one should be given a free ride into the side solely based on past achievements.

 

[sachin100]

Ashwin has experience on his side. He did badly in CT but an experienced spinner who is only aged 31 need not be shown the exit door. Yeah he needs to regain his form and fitness and dropping him for the time being will motivate him to force his way into the side if he is still serious about playing ODIs. No one should be given a free ride into the side solely based on past achievements.

His last 2 yrs are horrible. I m afraid if he continues to bowl legside darts then he has no future in odis and t 20 cricket.

 

[Tusker]

Ashwin has experience on his side. He did badly in CT but an experienced spinner who is only aged 31 need not be shown the exit door. Yeah he needs to regain his form and fitness and dropping him for the time being will motivate him to force his way into the side if he is still serious about playing ODIs. No one should be given a free ride into the side solely based on past achievements.

His fitness is really worrying. It will be a shame if fitness issues cut short his career. Kohli is a fitness fanatic and it will be hard to find a spot in the team.

 

[sachin100]

His fitness is really worrying. It will be a shame if fitness issues cut short his career. Kohli is a fitness fanatic and it will be hard to find a spot in the team.

Conspiracy alert.

Ashwin is one of the few pro kumble camp members along with saha, pujara.

 

[Suleiman]

Fakhar has ended his ODI career. Will never be the same, Ashwin.

 

[sachin100]

Fakhar has ended his ODI career. Will never be the same, Ashwin.

Thank God for that. Fakhar has put ashwin out of his misery by" finishing " his career

 

[IndianWillow]

Fakhar has ended his ODI career. Will never be the same, Ashwin.

Most spinners had bad time in CT. Ashwin had it pretty bad but he was still the most economical overall among Indian spinners in CT. Ashwin has had a few ups and downs in his career, at one point in 2012 or so he went without a wicket for some 300-400 odd runs if I remember right, but he bounced back from that low - one batsman doesn't finish him off in one match. His ODI batting remains hacky which along with his fitness is his main issue right now. He can sort out his bowling form, he has the experience. But India has raised its bar on fitness in selection matters esp for the shorter formats, which maybe Ashwin's immediate concern finding his place in the side.

I remember people baying for Ashwin's head a couple of years shouting Mishra, Mishra. But Mishra disappeared. Ashwin still in the reckoning. Everytime Indians see a new spinner do well initially (in the SC, what a surprise!!) they demand Ashwin's head. We have seen this happen many times. After Kumble and Bhajji, only Ashwin has survived so many years. Others came and went.

 

[Leo23]

Most spinners had bad time in CT. Ashwin had it pretty bad but he was still the most economical overall among Indian spinners in CT. Ashwin has had a few ups and downs in his career, at one point in 2012 or so he went without a wicket for some 300-400 odd runs if I remember right, but he bounced back from that low - one batsman doesn't finish him off in one match. His ODI batting remains hacky which along with his fitness is his main issue right now. He can sort out his bowling form, he has the experience. But India has raised its bar on fitness in selection matters esp for the shorter formats, which maybe Ashwin's immediate concern finding his place in the side.

I remember people baying for Ashwin's head a couple of years shouting Mishra, Mishra. But Mishra disappeared. Ashwin still in the reckoning. Everytime Indians see a new spinner do well initially (in the SC, what a surprise!!) they demand Ashwin's head. We have seen this happen many times. After Kumble and Bhajji, only Ashwin has survived so many years. Others came and went.

jadeja is better than ashwin in all formats

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Another factor that I have hardly seen any article (cricinfo or otherwise) talk about is the kind of pitches both Ash and Jaddu played in post WC 2015.

Post 2015 WC, Ashwin averaged 40s with the ball and Jadeja 60s. Jadeja averages more because he played in more pattas than Ash. He actually bowled really well in the Aus 2016 tour ODI series.

Mishra, Axar, Chahal and all the others got chance in other series where the ball turned like NZ series. Next series, when these 2 played against England, the pitches were super pattas.

Same with CT.

Post CT, Ashwin and Kuldeep played against WI ODI series. Guess what were their averages? Ashwin averaged 18 while Kuldeep 19 (though Kuldeep did bowl better).

All in all..not a like to like stat comparison that's going on. Didn't watch yesterday's game but if the pitch turned which is what I heard, then Ashwin and Jaddu would have most likely ripped Aussies apart too.

With all being said, I think we should persist with Kuldeep and Chahal and let Ash and Jaddu show us in IPL and other limited chances they get. Let them fight for their spots back.

The real test is when Ashwin and Jadeja's replacement actually play in pure pattas in ODIs. Every spinner gets to play on these pattas but they also get easier tracks to bring their numbers back to normal. In Ash and Jaddu case, they didn't play in a single ODI that wasn't a crazy patta post 2015 WC (Ash did in WI series and we saw what happened).

 

[IndianWillow]

jadeja is better than ashwin in all formats

That is a very generic comment!

In all conditions? Jadeja has poorer away record as a test and ODI bowler. Jadeja has a slightly better home record though. Jadeja relies a lot more on dustbowls than Ash. Anyway way as test bowlers I see no point in equating a 150 club test bowler with a 300club (well, near there) bowler with similar records. Ash has performed at Jadeja's level over a longer duration.

As an ODI bat and fielder Jaddu is obviously better. Ash is technically sounder as a test batsman as evident from their away test averages.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

I dont think ODI greatness is required for a bowler to be considered ATG. For a batsman - yes. Rules and conditions are too batsmen friendly in ODIs and T20s and it is very taxing for a modern bowler to adjust. Too many ODI exposures can hurt the bowler in tests and it is detrimental to the team's cause. Even Steyn wasn't a great ODI bowler but he is certainly an ATG bowler. Swann was a very good test bowler but not a great ODI bowler.

Can't be ATG if you are good at the most unpopular and irrelevant of the three formats.

It's just the truth that 20 years from now, the people deciding this would not have watched him bowl in Tests.

I give it about 5 years before top-class bowlers retire from Test Cricket, to make sure they aren't prevented from playing the limited overs formats.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

yah but he is also a t20 and odi specialist as well, great cricketer

That's now what 'specialist' means.

Specialist doesn't mean you're good. It means you do only one thing.

 

[IndianWillow]

Can't be ATG if you are good at the most unpopular and irrelevant of the three formats.

It's just the truth that 20 years from now, the people deciding this would not have watched him bowl in Tests.

I give it about 5 years before top-class bowlers retire from Test Cricket, to make sure they aren't prevented from playing the limited overs formats.

Popularity does not necessarily mean greatness. A film actor may have a million fans but that does not prove that he is greater than an unknown scientist in a remote mountain lab who finds a cure for a fatal illness. At this point of time, the primary yardstick of measuring quality is test cricket, though there is no doubt that T20 is gaining more popularity and may entirely banish test cricket into the oblivion in future.

ODIs aren't necessarily more popular than tests, many T20s are definitely exciting but most ODIs are boring, to be honest. Try starting a poll - order tests, ODIs and T20s for popularity. ODIs may finish last. T20s may finish first, not denying that.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That is a very generic comment!

In all conditions? Jadeja has poorer away record as a test and ODI bowler. Jadeja has a slightly better home record though. Jadeja relies a lot more on dustbowls than Ash. Anyway way as test bowlers I see no point in equating a 150 club test bowler with a 300club (well, near there) bowler with similar records. Ash has performed at Jadeja's level over a longer duration.

As an ODI bat and fielder Jaddu is obviously better. Ash is technically sounder as a test batsman as evident from their away test averages.

This was the perception which Jaddu laid to rest in the last 1 year.

The way he bowled in tests from Chennai 2016 test has been amazing. Has shown more versatility than Ash in Asian conditions.

 

[LastManstanding]

Fakhar has ended his ODI career. Will never be the same, Ashwin.

I think that match has done more damage to Pakistan by reviving Hafeez's career.

 

[Robert]

ODI stats are pretty much irrelevant to me. I couldn't tell you how any England players do in ODIs, but I know their test stats.

 

[LastManstanding]

Ashwin has experience on his side. He did badly in CT but an experienced spinner who is only aged 31 need not be shown the exit door. Yeah he needs to regain his form and fitness and dropping him for the time being will motivate him to force his way into the side if he is still serious about playing ODIs. No one should be given a free ride into the side solely based on past achievements.

The thing is Ashwin is a sub par fielder and not a big hitter while batting. So when he has an off day with the ball(which happens a lot when the pitch isn't turning, or batsmen hit few sixes against him), he is completely useless.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Let's wait and watch what happens to wrist spinners when they have an off day.

Also once teams start getting more video footage, they will start analyzing every little thing.

Its not as cut and dry as people are making it out to be.

 

[CanadianG00se]

ODI stats are pretty much irrelevant to me. I couldn't tell you how any England players do in ODIs, but I know their test stats.

Test stats is irrelevant to most Indians, most dont even bother to tune into test match.

 

[IndianWillow]

This was the perception which Jaddu laid to rest in the last 1 year.

The way he bowled in tests from Chennai 2016 test has been amazing. Has shown more versatility than Ash in Asian conditions.

The sample size is too low for this period. For tests, I would look at atleast 2-3 year window rather than current form. There has been very little to separate them over a 2-3 year time frame overall. But Jadeja has taken just 16 away test wickets in 3 years to Ash 72, so no decent sample size to compare them away from home grounds where both are very good generally.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Another factor that I have hardly seen any article (cricinfo or otherwise) talk about is the kind of pitches both Ash and Jaddu played in post WC 2015.

Post 2015 WC, Ashwin averaged 40s with the ball and Jadeja 60s. Jadeja averages more because he played in more pattas than Ash. He actually bowled really well in the Aus 2016 tour ODI series.

Mishra, Axar, Chahal and all the others got chance in other series where the ball turned like NZ series. Next series, when these 2 played against England, the pitches were super pattas.

Same with CT.

Post CT, Ashwin and Kuldeep played against WI ODI series. Guess what were their averages? Ashwin averaged 18 while Kuldeep 19 (though Kuldeep did bowl better).

All in all..not a like to like stat comparison that's going on. Didn't watch yesterday's game but if the pitch turned which is what I heard, then Ashwin and Jaddu would have most likely ripped Aussies apart too.

With all being said, I think we should persist with Kuldeep and Chahal and let Ash and Jaddu show us in IPL and other limited chances they get. Let them fight for their spots back.

The real test is when Ashwin and Jadeja's replacement actually play in pure pattas in ODIs. Every spinner gets to play on these pattas but they also get easier tracks to bring their numbers back to normal. In Ash and Jaddu case, they didn't play in a single ODI that wasn't a crazy patta post 2015 WC (Ash did in WI series and we saw what happened).

You're totally ignoring the fact that ASHWIN the fielder reminds me of days where Indian never took fielding seriously. Like legit he is seriously horrible fielder, have u seen his pot belly. In test cricket due to slow nature of game, Ashwin can hide behind other fielders but not the case in LOIs.

It is true that most spinners will be taken to cleaners on batting pattas but that doesnt automatically merits selection for Ashwin. He has done zilch in ODIs in last two years or so. Atleast with Jaddu he can save 15-20 runs while fielding and can also smoke some quick runs ocassionally.
Ashwin the bowler is not what many here are doubting its his fielding and batting that is nothing short of an embarassment in LOIs. If Kohli expect every men to be fit and agile then he shall not make it exception for Ashwin. Until and unless Ashwin lose weight and become agile on the field, he should be kept far away from LOI team. Im not a test match fan, so i couldn't be bothered with whatever team they select. But for now K Yadav had indeed finished Ashwin's career and im glad he did. It was such a pain watching Inzi 2.0 on the field

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

The sample size is too low for this period. For tests, I would look at atleast 2-3 year window rather than current form. There has been very little to separate them over a 2-3 year time frame overall. But Jadeja has taken just 16 away test wickets in 3 years to Ash 72, so no decent sample size to compare them away from home grounds where both are very good generally.

Both Jaddu and Ash are very good in Asia and in WI. We don't need Jaddu to play in those countries to know he will wreak havoc.

I am not saying Jaddu is a better bowler per se but he defo has shed the rank turner bully tag which was never accurate in the first place.

You're totally ignoring the fact that ASHWIN the fielder reminds me of days where Indian never took fielding seriously. Like legit he is seriously horrible fielder, have u seen his pot belly. In test cricket due to slow nature of game, Ashwin can hide behind other fielders but not the case in LOIs.

It is true that most spinners will be taken to cleaners on batting pattas but that doesnt automatically merits selection for Ashwin. He has done zilch in ODIs in last two years or so. Atleast with Jaddu he can save 15-20 runs while fielding and can also smoke some quick runs ocassionally.
Ashwin the bowler is not what many here are doubting its his fielding and batting that is nothing short of an embarassment in LOIs. If Kohli expect every men to be fit and agile then he shall not make it exception for Ashwin. Until and unless Ashwin lose weight and become agile on the field, he should be kept far away from LOI team. Im not a test match fan, so i couldn't be bothered with whatever team they select. But for now K Yadav had indeed finished Ashwin's career and im glad he did. It was such a pain watching Inzi 2.0 on the field

All these are buzz words.

Equation is simple:

If your output > your liability in field, you will be selected. Else dropped.

Kohli is the captain of the test team and he selected a "can't even bend properly" Ashwin for the Aus home series cos his perceived output value was higher than his liability.

If Ashwin goes back to the 2010 mode where he was a brill ODI bowler, you would see all fitness concerns thrown out of the window and him selected.

Also Ash is a poor ground fielder but a safe catcher. Old school style.

And I am not advocating Ash to be brought in place of anyone. Let's put it to the test and may the best 2 spinners win. Right now, situation is not very bright for him but knowing him, I think he will bounce back or at the very least put on a good fight to regain his spot.

 

[Mp812]

I think, he is still a class ODI bowler, but probably age, fitness, fielding & his impact-less batting at 7/8 has forced him/selectors to limit his ODI appearance. Besides, next WC is in UK - based on this CT, I don't think management isn't convinced about his role in next WC. We might not see him play many ODI from now on.

Besides other spinners doing better job in odi

 

[troodon]

Besides other spinners doing better job in odi

Finger spinners have no future in ODI's. They will be taken to the Dhobi Ghat more often than not by batsmen.

Ashwin relies on both flight and turn in Tests which is available for him in Subcontinent. In Overseas, he can only flight. Pitches do not offer much turn. Hence his effectiveness is reduced drastically.

Someone like Kuldeep can bowl the googly and get the batsman out if he ventures out of the crease. Ashwin cannot do that. So he tries to dart and take away the lofted shot from the batsman. All of this makes Ashwin a darter and a pie chucker in ODI's and in ICC tournaments, he will look even more useless.

Its not Ashwin's fault. You do not have some kind of mystery ball (doosra, googly), then you are cannon fodder in LOI matches. Game has changed a lot since 90's.

Ashwin can still be effective in Tests which offers everything he needs just like Pujara. Ashwin cannot hit big coming in at no.7 or no.8. He is a sloth on the field too. Lots of things work against him in ODI's. At least Jadu is electric in the field and can slog better than Ashwin. He can also dart better than Ash.

 

[CricFan2012]

I think that match has done more damage to Pakistan by reviving Hafeez's career.

TBH if that was the case then the Pakistani management wouldve taken him aboard for the Lahore matches, now pcb is actually smarter, especially with Arthur

 

[IndianWillow]

Finger spinners have no future in ODI's. They will be taken to the Dhobi Ghat more often than not by batsmen.

Ashwin relies on both flight and turn in Tests which is available for him in Subcontinent. In Overseas, he can only flight. Pitches do not offer much turn. Hence his effectiveness is reduced drastically.

Someone like Kuldeep can bowl the googly and get the batsman out if he ventures out of the crease. Ashwin cannot do that. So he tries to dart and take away the lofted shot from the batsman. All of this makes Ashwin a darter and a pie chucker in ODI's and in ICC tournaments, he will look even more useless.

Its not Ashwin's fault. You do not have some kind of mystery ball (doosra, googly), then you are cannon fodder in LOI matches. Game has changed a lot since 90's.

Ashwin can still be effective in Tests which offers everything he needs just like Pujara. Ashwin cannot hit big coming in at no.7 or no.8. He is a sloth on the field too. Lots of things work against him in ODI's. At least Jadu is electric in the field and can slog better than Ashwin. He can also dart better than Ash.

Actually the finger spinner argument does come up from time to time - it did come up even in the 90s. India have tried the leggies/wristies in the past with little success. It is much harder for the leggie to control the ball so no success unless you are a very high quality bowler. No harm experimenting though. During WC 15, it was widely discussed Ash would be a total misfit for the conditions in Oz, but he turned out to be one of the most successful bowlers there. For Ash it is more abt his own form - if he is good he is very good, if he loses touch he looks very bad. Blows hot and cold in ODIs sometimes in tests also. Which cost a spot in the side a few times in the past but he usually bounces back with a bang. Let us see.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

ODI stats are pretty much irrelevant to me. I couldn't tell you how any England players do in ODIs, but I know their test stats.

Understandable coming from an English. However test stats are irrelevant to most people outside Eng and Aus. So LOI stats matter for the rest

 

[Abdullah719]

'I am not desperate at all': R. Ashwin

Back after a successful stint with Worcestershire, Ashwin continues to find himself out of the Indian limited-overs scheme of things

In a crepuscular setting, the tall man went through his fitness routines — focussed yet cheerful in a familiar arena.

He then emerged from the drills, smiled and was honest with his replies. R. Ashwin oozed confidence with his body language and words — never shying away from challenges on and off the field, never ducking the tough questions.

Back after a successful stint with Worcestershire, Ashwin continues to find himself out of the Indian limited-overs scheme of things.

Asked about his omission — wrist spinners are the flavour of the season — from the shorter formats, Ashwin answered: “This is some sort of difficult question to answer because I don’t know if it’s a comeback at all. And I am sure comebacks are not going to be easy.”

He elaborated, “I am not desperate at all. One day, the opportunity will come knocking on my door because I haven’t done too much wrong. So when I get the opportunity and when I am put in an occasion, I will probably try and raise my game to the best of my ability.”

Brutal fitness is the latest mantra, and Ashwin was ready for the Yo-Yo test. He observed: “I am a man for systems and any system put in place, I would strive my level best to try and match up to it. Every leader has his own vision of how to bring the team about. This is the vision of the current leadership group and it’s important to respect it.”

The all-rounder said he was in fine shape physically. “I have been in great conditioning ever since I missed the IPL. I have trained madly. You have to take the test and decide how it goes. But I am completely in compliance with it.”

Queried if the development of Hardik Pandya as an all-rounder could enable the side play two spinners even in Tests away from the sub-continent, Ashwin replied, “we could play two spinners, we could play one spinner and that could be a left-arm spinner — I don’t know. Honestly, I am not looking forward to anything at all. I am just taking it one day at a time and I find life to be a lot comfortable.”

On the kind of role he saw for himself during India’s demanding away Test campaigns in South Africa, England and Australia over the next two years, Ashwin noted: “For me, its all about bowling well and trying to get into top rhythm. It is about constantly revisiting my best. Maybe, I will not be the type of attacking bowler when we tour abroad. I need to do a good holding role.”

Ashwin dwelt on his successful stint with Worcestershire, living up to the expectations from him as an overseas professional, bowling on slow wickets with the Duke ball and getting to know himself better.

He said, “I thought I got into some fantastic bowling and batting rhythm towards the end of season in Worcester. I started understanding a lot more about myself — how much I need to load myself in terms of workload. I had to do everything on my own — drive down to the ground, train myself, put the cones and weights in place and I thoroughly enjoyed it.”

At Worcester, he played before 5,000 to 8,000 spectators who understood and appreciated cricket.

He said though, “I never played cricket for the crowds and I enjoy wherever I play. Even If I play a fifth division match tomorrow, I will enjoy it.”

That sums up the essential Ashwin for you.

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/i-am-not-desperate-at-all-r-ashwin/article19824294.ece

 

[ExpressPacer]

Brilliant interview. He seems like a very dedicated and hard-working lad who's completely earthed. Wish we had someone like him in our team.

 

[CanadianG00se]

'I am not desperate at all': R. Ashwin

Back after a successful stint with Worcestershire, Ashwin continues to find himself out of the Indian limited-overs scheme of things

In a crepuscular setting, the tall man went through his fitness routines — focussed yet cheerful in a familiar arena.

He then emerged from the drills, smiled and was honest with his replies. R. Ashwin oozed confidence with his body language and words — never shying away from challenges on and off the field, never ducking the tough questions.

Back after a successful stint with Worcestershire, Ashwin continues to find himself out of the Indian limited-overs scheme of things.

Asked about his omission — wrist spinners are the flavour of the season — from the shorter formats, Ashwin answered: “This is some sort of difficult question to answer because I don’t know if it’s a comeback at all. And I am sure comebacks are not going to be easy.”

He elaborated, “I am not desperate at all. One day, the opportunity will come knocking on my door because I haven’t done too much wrong. So when I get the opportunity and when I am put in an occasion, I will probably try and raise my game to the best of my ability.”

Brutal fitness is the latest mantra, and Ashwin was ready for the Yo-Yo test. He observed: “I am a man for systems and any system put in place, I would strive my level best to try and match up to it. Every leader has his own vision of how to bring the team about. This is the vision of the current leadership group and it’s important to respect it.”

The all-rounder said he was in fine shape physically. “I have been in great conditioning ever since I missed the IPL. I have trained madly. You have to take the test and decide how it goes. But I am completely in compliance with it.”

Queried if the development of Hardik Pandya as an all-rounder could enable the side play two spinners even in Tests away from the sub-continent, Ashwin replied, “we could play two spinners, we could play one spinner and that could be a left-arm spinner — I don’t know. Honestly, I am not looking forward to anything at all. I am just taking it one day at a time and I find life to be a lot comfortable.”

On the kind of role he saw for himself during India’s demanding away Test campaigns in South Africa, England and Australia over the next two years, Ashwin noted: “For me, its all about bowling well and trying to get into top rhythm. It is about constantly revisiting my best. Maybe, I will not be the type of attacking bowler when we tour abroad. I need to do a good holding role.”

Ashwin dwelt on his successful stint with Worcestershire, living up to the expectations from him as an overseas professional, bowling on slow wickets with the Duke ball and getting to know himself better.

He said, “I thought I got into some fantastic bowling and batting rhythm towards the end of season in Worcester. I started understanding a lot more about myself — how much I need to load myself in terms of workload. I had to do everything on my own — drive down to the ground, train myself, put the cones and weights in place and I thoroughly enjoyed it.”

At Worcester, he played before 5,000 to 8,000 spectators who understood and appreciated cricket.

He said though, “I never played cricket for the crowds and I enjoy wherever I play. Even If I play a fifth division match tomorrow, I will enjoy it.”

That sums up the essential Ashwin for you.

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/i-am-not-desperate-at-all-r-ashwin/article19824294.ece

Is he here talking about K Yadav?

Ive a feeling that Ashwin knows he is not certain starter in Indian lineup anymore specially in overseas test with the emergence of Kuldeep. Well its a good thing as it will keep him motivated to improve further that will benefit him as well as team.

 

[giri26]

Ravi Ashwin still enjoying cricket but declines to set firm plans for international future

India off-spinner Ravi Ashwin has been waiting for an opportunity to get back into the senior playing XI. Long seen as the best spinner in the country, the 31-year-old is no longer the first-choice bowler in limited-overs cricket. That honour now rests with young wrist spinners Kuldeep Yadav and Yuzvendra Chahal. Ashwin, along with Ravindra Jadeja, might have to wait for the Test matches to come around to wear the India jersey again but the veteran off-spinner has not let the latest developments bog him down.

Ashwin played four county matches for Worcestershire in Division Two in England. There, he picked up 20 wickets and also hit 214 runs. Since he didn’t feature in the short-form matches in Sri Lanka, at home against Australia and won’t against New Zealand as well, Ashwin has a lot more time to work on his fitness and develop new aspects of his game. The 31-year-old is embracing the new challenge and is not planning too far ahead.

“I am still playing cricket, very happy doing it,” Ashwin told Sport360° during the launch of Gen-Next Kings’ Cricket Academy at Kings’ School, Al Barsha, in Dubai.

“I have ventured into new things. I went and played in England, new experiences, new things to learn. Wherever I go, there is a lot of learning for me. I am playing Ranji Trophy (India’s first-class tournament) again after a long time. Getting back into the Tamil Nadu dressing room, I have been enjoying it.”

County spells have generally proven to be beneficial for subcontinent cricketers as they get to play in relative anonymity and be on their own while getting back to the basics. Now, Ashwin just wants to play the game and is not keen on making big statements in the press.

“I bowled a lot of long spells (in England). I had to do things on my own. The wickets didn’t come quickly, you need to take time, plan your dismissals. It’s not one precise thing that I learnt and can say from now onwards you can see it. It makes no sense. I am sure you want that sort of a statement from me. But it’s all about taking everything in, trying to see if what you can learn and get better the next day.

“As far as the upcoming season is concerned, I am not taking anything for granted. I am not looking forward to anything. Why should I look forward to anything? I enjoy playing cricket, be it Tests ODIs or T20s. I am not going to make any big statements as such. If I need to do that, I will call the press myself and give statements. As of now, all you can do is enjoy your cricket rather that give all sorts of interviews,” he added.

http://sport360.com/video/cricket_i...es-to-set-firm-plans-for-international-future

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The LOI game is very harsh on right arm offspinners with clean actions. They have to go back to the 1 ball rule in ODIs so that atleast in SC conditions, offspinners can be somewhat effective.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin has potential to become a test ATG.

A bowler at Kumble/ Anderson level and his batting is at par or better than Shaun Pollock.

 

[sachin100]

Ashwin is seeing the signs and is smart enough to see them.

It is for him to prove his mettle in lois and overseas tests.

If he fails in the next round of over seas tours he has nobody but himself to blame if he loses his spot