Has this Pakistani team over achieved with a Semi-Final spot in the T20 World Cup 2022?

[Savak]

Before this tournament everyone feared that our openers were too out dated for the modern T20 format and to top it off we had a unreliable hackish inconsistent middle order. Given that Pakistan were in an easy group I expected this team to reach the Semi Finals but I feared our chances against England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and even India.

Will another Semi Final journey be considered a success for a team with so many weaknesses?

 

[Hyder]

Pakistan didn't play that bad cricket overall. Just choked at crucial moments meanwhile sa lost one sided match with Pakistan, lost to med comfortably and ind lost to sa in a one sided affair. After all the weaknesses and mismanagement still we lost first two..atches due to a mental breakdown of nawaz and its all forgiven now as that tale has ended. Now its two matches from now on and just make sure we dont choke anything now.

 

[Suleiman]

If 1-2 minor things went our way in the Zim or India game we’d have an undefeated run right now. We didn’t lose any of our games in this tournament in a thumping fashion.

We got in our own way in all the losses (and the wins!). Winning position v India and Zim, but threw it away.

The win:loss column does not paint the whole picture.

So no, we didn’t over achieve. Should have made it to semis. Got it done in an ugly way, but did it. Initially I had us going into finals and lifting the cup In Sha Allah.

Like it not, this is the best t20 team we’ve had since 2009. Go ahead and try to prove me wrong. Despite the opener pair, this is easily the best pace attack we’ve had since 2009, maybe 2010 is comparable. Middle order is 2nd strongest since the 2009 team.

Only thing this team is lacking is that killer winner mindset like the 2009 one.

 

[PakFan2010]

Not really.

South Africa should have gone through, the rain off vs Zimbabwe cost them a spot.

 

[Snowflake]

Yes. They’ve overachieved

 

[Snowflake]

Not really.

South Africa should have gone through, the rain off vs Zimbabwe cost them a spot.

If SA should have gone through, then Pak has overachieved, no?

 

[Shaddy86]

Not really.

South Africa should have gone through, the rain off vs Zimbabwe cost them a spot.

The loss Vs Netherlands cost them. Even if they had won against Zimbabwe they'd only be on 6 points.

 

[PakFan2010]

The loss Vs Netherlands cost them. Even if they had won against Zimbabwe they'd only be on 6 points.

South Africa's run rate would gave got a huge boost. They thumped Zimbabwe.

 

[Saj]

I didn't expect them to reach the semi-finals.

That was mainly due to the batting weaknesses, which have not really been resolved.

But results have gone Pakistan's way, so let's make the most if it.

 

[shokz1408]

I wouldn’t be happy with a semi final loss. We need to win it from here. We’ve beat SA so far in terms of a big team, two wins away from the trophy.

 

[the Great Khan]

No underachieved by making this a slog. If we had beaten Zim we would have cantered to the semis with India.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan cashed on the easier group and a fluke result (SA losing to Netherlands).

There is no way Pakistan would have survived a group of Australia, England and New Zealand.

Australia were rubbish but they will beat Pakistan at home with their women team.

Pakistan benefited from the act that they only had one genuine elite team in their group.

 

[Syed1]

We have sneaked our way to many semis before but tbh this seems like the sneakiest of them all. LOL


Although we didn't ask the Saffers to lose to Ned they just choked as is typical for them.


Our team isn't bad per se, we have a splendid bowling attack and all bases covered there and a deep attacking batting line up (on paper) it just hasn't 'really' clicked for us throughout the tournament. Who knows getting to semis may just give us the kickstart we need. This is setting up for a mouth watering Indo Pak final and an opportunity to right the wrong of 2007.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Before the tournament I expected Pak to get to semis.

After 2 matches, I didnt.

Now I feel it will be a Pak v England final with Pak winning. Pak can peak at the right time now.

Babar and Rizwan may be back to their best again.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistan cashed on the easier group and a fluke result (SA losing to Netherlands).

There is no way Pakistan would have survived a group of Australia, England and New Zealand.

Australia were rubbish but they will beat Pakistan at home with their women team.

Pakistan benefited from the act that they only had one genuine elite team in their group.

Do you feel you beloved India over achieved and will over achieve v England?

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Pakistan cashed on the easier group and a fluke result (SA losing to Netherlands).

There is no way Pakistan would have survived a group of Australia, England and New Zealand.

Australia were rubbish but they will beat Pakistan at home with their women team.

Pakistan benefited from the act that they only had one genuine elite team in their group.

If you’re talking about India as the elite team then no. They lost to South Africa. And would have lost against Pakistan if it wasn’t for a miracle innings.

 

[Mamoon]

Do you feel you beloved India over achieved and will over achieve v England?

India and England are two incredible teams. The best white ball sides in the world. If they 10 matches in neutral conditions they would probably end up 5-5. The semifinal is too hard to call, it is just a matter of who is better on that particular day.

England got screwed over by rain. They were going to beat Ireland, the washout vs Australia didn’t help because they were favorites. They should have topped the group, which would have set up a final vs India.

England and India final continues to evade us, but it is what ICC tournaments deserve. They have been the best white ball sides post 2015.

 

[Sarwar89]

India and England are two incredible teams. The best white ball sides in the world. If they 10 matches in neutral conditions they would probably end up 5-5. The semifinal is too hard to call, it is just a matter of who is better on that particular day.

England got screwed over by rain. They were going to beat Ireland, the washout vs Australia didn’t help because they were favorites. They should have topped the group, which would have set up a final vs India.

England and India final continues to evade us, but it is what ICC tournaments deserve. They have been the best white ball sides post 2015.

How many ICC ODI/T20 cups india has won post 2015 or from 2015 ?

 

[Mamoon]

If you’re talking about India as the elite team then no. They lost to South Africa. And would have lost against Pakistan if it wasn’t for a miracle innings.

That miracle innings was played by an Indian player.

India lost to South Africa due to bad strategy, the same South Africa got smashed by their B team not long ago.

India is a top team.

 

[Sarwar89]

That miracle innings was played by an Indian player.

India lost to South Africa due to bad strategy, the same South Africa got smashed by their B team not long ago.

India is a top team.

Andre Russel’s innings at Wankhede was real miracle in 2016, as best side india choked at wankhede.

 

[Mamoon]

How many ICC ODI/T20 cups india has won post 2015 or from 2015 ?

It doesn’t matter. Luck has deserted them in key moments, and you don’t need to win trophies to be a great team. They are overrated.

WI have the joint most ICC trophies in the last 10 years, but they not a top side because the consistency is not there.

If Pakistan can occupy top 2 rankings consistently across formats for long periods of time like India have, I wouldn’t care if they win trophies.

Cup competitions are a platform for unexpected results, anything can happen in one-off games, but the true caliber of a team is reflected over a period of 6 months, 1 year etc., over 25-30 games etc., and this is where Pakistan shows its true colors.

 

[Mamoon]

Andre Russel’s innings at Wankhede was real miracle in 2016, as best side india choked at wankhede.

They lost due to bad strategy and an unlucky no-ball. It wasn’t a choke. Every defeat isn’t a choke. They didn’t have enough runs on the board for Wankhede.

Choke is what they were doing at the same ground in 2011 before Kohli and Gambhir steadied the ship.

 

[todfod 11]

May be some people should start praying.. just imagine whats guna happen if for some reason India loose out in semi and Pak make it to final..
Ohh yaar kasam se.. just imagine

 

[Sarwar89]

They lost due to bad strategy and an unlucky no-ball. It wasn’t a choke. Every defeat isn’t a choke. They didn’t have enough runs on the board for Wankhede.

Choke is what they were doing at the same ground in 2011 before Kohli and Gambhir steadied the ship.

And Reliance World cup semi final 1987 at
Wankhede was not a choke either ?

Gooch swept india & eddie hemmings ? 1987

Or shall i even talk about Eden Gardens 1996
Vinod Kambli or chris cairns 2000 nairobi

Good side india nodoubt but no Bradman or garfield sobers genius in them. Sorry.

 

[Mamoon]

And Reliance World cup semi final 1987 at
Wankhede was not a choke either ?

Gooch swept india & eddie hemmings ? 1987

Or shall i even talk about Eden Gardens 1996
Vinod Kambli or chris cairns 2000 nairobi

Good side india nodoubt but no Bradman or garfield sobers genius in them. Sorry.

The examples that you mentioned have no relevance in context of the current Indian side. You just wasted a post for no reason.

 

[Sarwar89]

The examples that you mentioned have no relevance in context of the current Indian side. You just wasted a post for no reason.

No i was bringing you away from fantasy world of over praising indian team which has lost in front of my eyes since 1987 (35 years) countless matches big matches

2014
2015
2016
2017
2019
2021 wtc
2021

Every single time they cracked under pressure.

You might be very popular here but i am a computerized photographic memory person who practically has watched every single indian defeat ( including Nehru cup 89) in front of my eyes since 1987

They are actually under achievers.

Thankyou & good night.

 

[KingKhanWC]

India and England are two incredible teams. The best white ball sides in the world. If they 10 matches in neutral conditions they would probably end up 5-5. The semifinal is too hard to call, it is just a matter of who is better on that particular day.

England got screwed over by rain. They were going to beat Ireland, the washout vs Australia didn’t help because they were favorites. They should have topped the group, which would have set up a final vs India.

England and India final continues to evade us, but it is what ICC tournaments deserve. They have been the best white ball sides post 2015.

As Ive advised in the past please play sports it helps understanding compeition.

You dont deserve anything unless you get there in tournaments esp in a T20 format where one bad over or one bad shot can swing the game outside your favour.

If India was so great they wouldnt have just beat Pak and England wouldnt have lost to Ireland even thought it DL method.

Overall England are the better team in terms of squad and all round options. India is no better than the rest.

Pakistan will win this tournament if they reach the final, peaking and momentum is also crucial in tournaments.

 

[IMMY69]

We've very much underachieved so far.
Expected it to be much easier route to the semi's..

 

[IMMY69]

Also, although this was the group of death, in the end we were lucky Netherlands pulled off a one in a million victory

 

[TheSultan]

100% they overachieved. But all the top teams have had very average tournaments. No one has dominated.

Some people may even argue that with a few “slices of luck” or “better strategy” (as Mamoon keeps saying about India) Pakistan would be unbeaten in the whole tournament.

As Pakistan fans, we are all able to criticise our team badly, vilify them, but also support them and commend them too. Mamoon is making excuses for India’s losses that are bordering on pure delusion.

But guess what? Overachieving, underwchieving, deserving, undeserving, we’re in the Semis and there’s nowt you can do about it, so go cry in a corner.

 

[TeamPak95]

I don't really know what to make of Pakistan's performance in this tournament so far. Losing to Zimbabwe really is a dark stain here and was the reason they had to rely on Netherlands in the first place to qualify for the semi-finals. They had a close, full 40 over encounter vs India losing via an ATG t20 knock, beat Netherlands, thrashed SA and won with unnecessary difficulty vs Bangladesh. If I'm forced to give a straight answer, I'd say yes Pak overachieved but mainly because of their flawed opening combo and their inconsistent middle order. The bowlers 100% fully deserve to be in the semis though.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

They won the damn lottery.

 

[Kroll]

Yes definitely, only the traditional SA WC choke saved us which was bonkers even by their standards.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Nopes. Pakistan has a better T20 team on paper than other teams of their group.

Only problem is that their openers are not firing.

 

[Gayle_Force]

I dont know really how to categorize Pakistan's performance so far in this world cup. I think as fans we tend to over criticize individual performances but as a team so far Pakistan lost two competitive matches literally on the last ball and won the remaining three fairly convincingly. In contrast, South Africa had to scrap towards a win against India and lost against Pak and Ned fairly convincingly. So, If we look at it that way than Pakistan absolutely deserves to be in the semi finals.

 

[shujaatraza]

Pakistan cashed on the easier group and a fluke result (SA losing to Netherlands).

There is no way Pakistan would have survived a group of Australia, England and New Zealand.

Australia were rubbish but they will beat Pakistan at home with their women team.

Pakistan benefited from the act that they only had one genuine elite team in their group.

Last world cup, Pakistan had India and New Zealand in their group and still played the semi final.
For Pakistan to be in the same group as Australia, England and NZ either Pakistan or one of these teams have to be ranked like 9-10.
I know you cannot digest anything good that happens with Pakistan but luck, performance all go hand in hand. Pakistan performed well to defeat South Africa to keep their hopes alive and then they got luck with Netherlands win.

 

[Humz]

I would say they have under achieved so far due to horrific management/strategy/captaincy.

They have actively tried to lose from winning positions.

Pakistan is top 2 in the world when it comes to the bowling department, and bowlers win you matches is historically true in cricket.

The team they have settled on now is solid from a batting stand point, they just need to adjust the batting positions to get the most out of their in form batsmen.

Captaincy will remain an issue.

 

[W63L35]

It's not all doom and gloom!

1. Pakistan team has the best bowling E/R in the tournament so far.

2. Pakistan team has the 4th best bowling S/R in the tournament so far. All top 4 teams qualified for Semis.

3. Pakistani batting (overall) has 7th best S/R in the tournament. England has 8th best batting S/R. NZ has the best and India has the 2nd best S/R.

The most worry some stat is that Pakistan's opening pair has WORST S/R and 2nd Worst Ave. Who would have thought both Babar and Rizwan will be a glaring failures!

Based on the current form, I would have like Pakistan lay England in the semi-final but we can beat NZ - with our bowling but statistically NZ is batting the best in the tournment, even ahead of India.

If we beat NZ, then final will be played on equal basis, I am sure.

 

[W63L35]

If Pakistan has overachived then England has way more over-achieved than Pakistan - given the batting perforamnce of combined batting positions 3, 4, 5 and 6. How come nobody is talking about England's miserable batting performance at these batting positions? Their openers have carried them to semi-finals...

 

[Sherazkhalid]

Well tbh it seems like a fair result, we gave away the Ind game, too nervous in the second game. Could have been ten points. In the end we can rely on our bowlers 9 out of ten games, India game was the tenth game. We need our openers to step up though.

 

[W63L35]

India and England are two incredible teams. The best white ball sides in the world. If they 10 matches in neutral conditions they would probably end up 5-5. The semifinal is too hard to call, it is just a matter of who is better on that particular day.

England got screwed over by rain. They were going to beat Ireland, the washout vs Australia didn’t help because they were favorites. They should have topped the group, which would have set up a final vs India.

England and India final continues to evade us, but it is what ICC tournaments deserve. They have been the best white ball sides post 2015.

England was incredible team before the tournament..... but during this tournament, their batting has miserably failed - except their openers. Please see the batting stats of #3, 4, 5 and 6 of all teams in the post above.

 

[Snowflake]

England was incredible team before the tournament..... but during this tournament, their batting has miserably failed - except their openers. Please see the batting stats of #3, 4, 5 and 6 of all teams in the post above.

Haven’t seen you around in the longest time bro! Good to see you posting again

 

[Bilal7]

We are rightfully in the semis. Last-ball losses to India and Zimbabwe were tragic and could have gone either way. We also destroyed South Africa and the Netherlands and our bowling unit has been the best in the world.

 

[Kianig89]

Luck By Chance we are in SF, now time to prove it wrong

 

[world cup captain]

Absolutely not. Pakistan beat SA very convincingly to whom India lost to. Our losses to India and Zimbabwe were as close as you can get in a loss. There's no reason to say that we don't deserve to be in the semi final.

 

[Energy]

3 wins and 2 last ball losses. I'd say Pakistan has overall played better than all other teams in the group.

All other teams got comprehensively beaten in at least one game. Not Pakistan.

Well done Pakistan.

 

[MHN1293]

Pakistan cashed on the easier group and a fluke result (SA losing to Netherlands).

There is no way Pakistan would have survived a group of Australia, England and New Zealand.

Australia were rubbish but they will beat Pakistan at home with their women team.

Pakistan benefited from the act that they only had one genuine elite team in their group.

So sa losing to Netherlands was a massive fluke which costed them a semifinal spot while Zimbabwe beating Pakistan was fully deserved and Pakistan despite beating sa and running India close deserve to go home. Got it

 

[Nikhil_cric]

3 wins and 2 last ball losses. I'd say Pakistan has overall played better than all other teams in the group.

All other teams got comprehensively beaten in at least one game. Not Pakistan.

Well done Pakistan.

SA beating India was hardly comprehensive. It was quite a close match.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan have done a brilliant job to stay in the tournament.

Of course luck helps - as it does in all areas of our lives. The real challenge is what you do with those lucky breaks.

As Muslims we believe that all opportunities are there for a reason and now its upto Babar and Co to go ahead and win this tournament and create history once again.

Go Pakistan - Naysayers can learn to live with Pakistan's success. Gaviscon is a great help for heartburn.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan deserve to be in the semis. SA choking/selection problems is nobody's fault but theirs. If you can't beat Netherlands, you're not good enough for semis.

PAK should make the finals given that you have a favorable opponent at a favorable venue.

The final will be much tougher because both ENG and IND have historically been better T20 sides and also have a better head to head against Pakistan. Also, the MCG won't be as favorable for PAK like SCG.

Anything less than finals would be underachieving.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Winning against south africa was a given , we always expected to win against nederlands and zimbabwe and bangladesh. Zimbabwe upset us and it was a narrow encounter against india as well. Had we won against india i would have said that we overachieved but losing against both zim abd india means that we have underacheived. South africas bad luck followed them otherwise we would have been back home.

It will be a great contest against the team of the tournament so far NZ.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Underachieved so far, although South Africa was easily the strongest team on paper. I was of the opinion one of India or Pakistan will miss out, but trust South Africa to buckle under pressure.

We have had two last ball finishes, which means we have had extremely close games where we should have won. India was let off the hook in spectacular fashion, while Zimbabwe had no business winning that game yet they did.

Openers are horribly out of form, to the point where they are now costing us games quite literally. Babar needs to let go of his ego and come one down and let Haris open for this semi-finals, I know NZ won’t be expecting that at all.

 

[Executioner]

Pakistan got a bit lucky because the SA-Zim game was rained off but SA losing to Netherlands was on them.

 

[Wanton]

Still underachiever, they should have topped the group. India has overachieved, got lucky against Bangladesh.

 

[Shafi]

This Semi final achievement will cost us more damage than any good in future. PCB and Saqlain will boast about this and all the problems will be swept under the carpet. Majed will keep his job despite so many poor fielding so as Saqlain keep his job despite doing nothing. So don't expect any change until next World Cup humiliation.

 

[Shafi]

Still underachiever, they should have topped the group. India has overachieved, got lucky against Bangladesh.

Yeah right. India was never out of the game and they played way too cautious on Afridi. They could have finish the match by 17 overs.

 

[SaadAliG]

No. People like to overreact when there's absolutely no need.

We lost 2 out of 5 games, against Zim by a run and against India, it could've gone either way. We outplayed them until the last over of the game.

We deserve to be in the semi-final and surely can win the tournament.

 

[sindhiboy]

Pakistan was very lucky last year.

But this time, the semi final spot is well deserved.

If two balls went Pakistan's way, the team would've been table toppers way before the final match.

Most big teams have faced upsets. Even the aus VS afg match was close.

 

[Abdullah]

Pakistan cashed on the easier group and a fluke result (SA losing to Netherlands).

There is no way Pakistan would have survived a group of Australia, England and New Zealand.

Australia were rubbish but they will beat Pakistan at home with their women team.

Pakistan benefited from the act that they only had one genuine elite team in their group.

Genuinely. What was your prediction for Pak pre tournament.

 

[Usman Chadda]

This Semi final achievement will cost us more damage than any good in future. PCB and Saqlain will boast about this and all the problems will be swept under the carpet. Majed will keep his job despite so many poor fielding so as Saqlain keep his job despite doing nothing. So don't expect any change until next World Cup humiliation.

Which World Cup did we get humiliated in recently?

 

[Mainul]

It doesn’t matter. Luck has deserted them in key moments, and you don’t need to win trophies to be a great team. They are overrated.

WI have the joint most ICC trophies in the last 10 years, but they not a top side because the consistency is not there.

If Pakistan can occupy top 2 rankings consistently across formats for long periods of time like India have, I wouldn’t care if they win trophies.

Cup competitions are a platform for unexpected results, anything can happen in one-off games, but the true caliber of a team is reflected over a period of 6 months, 1 year etc., over 25-30 games etc., and this is where Pakistan shows its true colors.

ICC trophy, world cups are something which can't be even compared to bilateral series wins and top ranking. If you give open options to greats like ABD,Kallis,Donald,Amla,Smith they will instantly trade by giving away their all bilateral series wins and holding top ranking for long time just for 1 ODI world cup.

 

[Humz]

It doesn’t matter. Luck has deserted them in key moments, and you don’t need to win trophies to be a great team. They are overrated.

WI have the joint most ICC trophies in the last 10 years, but they not a top side because the consistency is not there.

If Pakistan can occupy top 2 rankings consistently across formats for long periods of time like India have, I wouldn’t care if they win trophies.

Cup competitions are a platform for unexpected results, anything can happen in one-off games, but the true caliber of a team is reflected over a period of 6 months, 1 year etc., over 25-30 games etc., and this is where Pakistan shows its true colors.

Disagree, a world cup is a true representation of the best team. It does not matter what you have done the whole year in random bilateral games. What you do in a knockout stage against all teams when the pressure is on >> much more important.

 

[shamaan]

Before this tournament everyone feared that our openers were too out dated for the modern T20 format and to top it off we had a unreliable hackish inconsistent middle order. Given that Pakistan were in an easy group I expected this team to reach the Semi Finals but I feared our chances against England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and even India.

Will another Semi Final journey be considered a success for a team with so many weaknesses?

I thought they would have reached Semi Final before the world cup but I didn't expect them to get to Final.

 

[shamaan]

Pakistan got a bit lucky because the SA-Zim game was rained off but SA losing to Netherlands was on them.

Pakistan would have battered South Africa if the game had been 20 full overs.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Overachieved in a way as this team still has a lot of flaws, but at the same time the team has done very well in 4/5 games. We were a bit unlucky to lose against India where it really was 50-50. I think literally both teams had their moments but Kohli got them through. Our really poor game was against Zimbabwe but Perth is an anomaly pitch you just dont find anywhere in the world.

 

[SamNJ]

At times you have to see the overall process over the results. WI won 2 T20 world cups in the span of 4 years. Did it change the course of the decline that had set in ? No.
Australia, England and India didn’t win any T20 world cups between 2010-2020 but they still remained good teams.

Major takeaways from last 2 years cricket Pakistan played

1. The way Pakistan is producing finished product fast bowlers in the age bracket of 20 is a great sign. Something is really good at grassroot levels in fast bowling.
2. Not being able to produce batsmen who can score slightly over run a ball with low risk game is a big worry.